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Time for Some Trail Runners

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Sandra Riordan

Hobart Australia
Camino(s) past & future
Francis 2015, Portuguese 2016, El Norte 2017 & VDLP 2019.
Having walked 3 Caminos in Salomon Lightweight Boots it's time for a change. To Trail Runners.

@davebugg These are the Hokas available in Sydney. Models keep changing.
Which would you recommend? :oops:

After 4 Caminos I firmly believe trail runners are the best option. I love them and have never had a blister or foot trouble.
 

Derrybiketours

A journey of 500 miles begins with one step!
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP-SANT-FIN (09/2018)
PORTO-SANT (11/2018)
Caminho Da Fe (01/2019)
SJPdP- Meseta (28/09/2019)
Merrell Moab Ventilators were my trusty loafers for last 2000 Kms and for my October Camino I will be investing in ankle paddling where its worn away but I was close to purchasing these bad boys 🤠
 
I walk in Merrell Trail Gloves - they're got Vibram soles, are very light and dry quickly - most importantly, they're really soft on the heels - for me the Hokas I tried were much too hard at the back of the shoe above the heel and gave me instant blisters
 

Geoff Shepherd

I’m the big fella on the left.
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances Sep-Oct 2018
Having walked 3 Caminos in Salomon Lightweight Boots it's time for a change. To Trail Runners.

@davebugg These are the Hokas available in Sydney. Models keep changing.
Which would you recommend? :oops:

Try Altra Lone Peak - I used the LP 3.5, but the 4.0 model is out now. A bit hard to get in Oz currently though - new US supplier being sorted soon I hear. The zero drop is great as is the wide toe box. The Altra Timps are good also with more padding underfoot than the LPs. No blisters, lightweight and dry v’quickly.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2013 Camino Frances SJPP / 2014 Camino Portugues / 2015 Camino Ingles / 2015 Hospitalero Training
2016 (fall) Camino Sanabre / Hospitalero?
To each their own. Yes I have Hokas and blister free 6 Caminos while my wife feet are never happy. My advice is to be "One with your shoes" before you leave. Style or not wear your chosen footwear everyday for the month before you go. Take care of your feet, stop when you feel them, Vaseline, Compeed, Gold Bond, stick deodorant, if it works great please don't go unprepared. This is a new adventure for most of us.
 

lt56ny

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF2012,Le Puy/CF 2015 Portugues 2017 Norte 2018, CF 2019
As @williamlittig said to each his own. I have worn Brooks Cascadia's for my 4 Caminos and will wear them again in November. As I have stated more than once here, my completely unscientific study of blisters and foot issues have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, at least for me :) trail runners are the way to go. Great support, great comfort, light weight, quick to dry, and it seems people have less severe and fewer issues than those wearing boots. But of course if you can get Davebugg to chime in you will be sitting at the feet of the "Master of Feet"
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
Having walked 3 Caminos in Salomon Lightweight Boots it's time for a change. To Trail Runners.

@davebugg These are the Hokas available in Sydney. Models keep changing.
Which would you recommend? :oops:

Rob, do you need an extra wide shoe width, or are you comfortable walking in shoes that are the typical 'regular' width? That will help narrow down which Hoka One One model might be worth trying.
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
Try Altra Lone Peak - I used the LP 3.5, but the 4.0 model is out now. A bit hard to get in Oz currently though - new US supplier being sorted soon I hear. The zero drop is great as is the wide toe box. The Altra Timps are good also with more padding underfoot than the LPs. No blisters, lightweight and dry v’quickly.
:) Altras are very good shoes, but they do require an additional set of evaluation criteria for the user's consideration if they have never worn an Altra shoe before.

For some folks, Altras are just not suitable. The 'zero drop concept' of the shoe's profile can take weeks for some folks to adapt to. Some folks never get used to them or dislike the 'feel'. For many people, they adapt immediately or very quickly and never look back.

I advise everyone that considers Altra, or other manufacturers of zero drop shoes, to allow a good amount of time for a proper evaluation of fit and feel. Even if they feel good out of the box, issues can develop days after one starts using them. This does not apply to those who have already been using zero drop shoes.
 

Robo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
Rob, do you need an extra wide shoe width, or are you comfortable walking in shoes that are the typical 'regular' width? That will help narrow down which Hoka One One model might be worth trying.
I go with regular @davebugg
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
The Stinson ATR may suit you with the cushioning aspect, and it has a more aggressive tread pattern than the Bondi 6. You can compare those two, especially if you want to see how a 'wider' version feels which is only with the Bondi 6.

If you feel like you want a shoe with a bit beefier stability, I tend to like Gaviota 2. . . which is also available in a wider width if needed. It is a bit less 'plush' with cushioning but it has more motion control/stability than the Stinson or Bondi.
 

Robo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
The Stinson ATR may suit you with the cushioning aspect, and it has a more aggressive tread pattern than the Bondi 6. You can compare those two, especially if you want to see how a 'wider' version feels which is only with the Bondi 6.

If you feel like you want a shoe with a bit beefier stability, I tend to like Gaviota 2. . . which is also available in a wider width if needed. It is a bit less 'plush' with cushioning but it has more motion control/stability than the Stinson or Bondi.
Many thanks Dave. I'll go try some.
The extra cushioning sounds good.

I discovered from my Podiatrist, who by the way is based at Sydney Olympic Park Sports Medicine Centre (so should know what he's doing I hope, that as we age we lose the natural cushioning on our heels!
 

Ed Aster

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances May 2017
Columbia Ventralia out dry mid trail runners, 3 camino’s and superb comfort, great toe box and fantastic cushioning. Waterproof and rugged when you need that extra toughness. Excellent for going downhill and solid for going up.

Buon Camino
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
Many thanks Dave. I'll go try some.
The extra cushioning sounds good.

I discovered from my Podiatrist, who by the way is based at Sydney Olympic Park Sports Medicine Centre (so should know what he's doing I hope, that as we age we lose the natural cushioning on our heels!
My recommendation for walkers/hikers/backpackers are podiatrists who specialize in sports and with athletes. I'm glad you have access to one :)

The more cushioned Hoka models also seem to be a favorite for Podiatrists to recommend for those with a history of Plantar's Fasciitis.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking.
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I have worn Hoka One Ones, Sauconys, Keens, and Asics, and have had good luck and no blisters, but the Hokas are my favorites! You just cannot beat the cushy, springy, marshmellow feel of them underfoot...I love them!
 

gittiharre

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF Austria Czech Le Puy Geneva RLS V. Jacobi V. Regia V. Baltica/Scandinavica Porto Muxia
Merrell Moab Ventilators were my trusty loafers for last 2000 Kms and for my October Camino I will be investing in ankle paddling where its worn away but I was close to purchasing these bad boys 🤠
Morrell Moab 2, ankle boot, just tried these on in a Merrell shop and pulled the laces, one of the fasteners pulled straight out and on closer inspection, they are attached to a layer of plastic. Hopeless construction....
 

owms2323

Credential question
Camino(s) past & future
Camino de Frances (2014) Camino Frances (2016) Camino Finisterre/Muxia (2017)
My recommendation for walkers/hikers/backpackers are podiatrists who specialize in sports and with athletes. I'm glad you have access to one :)

The more cushioned Hoka models also seem to be a favorite for Podiatrists to recommend for those with a history of Plantar's Fasciitis.
Any advice for plantar fascitis sufferers?
 

gittiharre

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF Austria Czech Le Puy Geneva RLS V. Jacobi V. Regia V. Baltica/Scandinavica Porto Muxia
My recommendation for walkers/hikers/backpackers are podiatrists who specialize in sports and with athletes. I'm glad you have access to one :)

The more cushioned Hoka models also seem to be a favorite for Podiatrists to recommend for those with a history of Plantar's Fasciitis.
Haha, I got insoles from a podiatrist, they were too high and I ended up with a stress fracture and lisfrancs joint injury, agonising walking like this. Be very careful, who you choose....I kept on saying, they were too high and the guy said I needed to persist. I was livid. Took me over a year to come kind of right, but only 90% recovered...
 

gittiharre

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF Austria Czech Le Puy Geneva RLS V. Jacobi V. Regia V. Baltica/Scandinavica Porto Muxia
I have worn Hoka One Ones, Sauconys, Keens, and Asics, and have had good luck and no blisters, but the Hokas are my favorites! You just cannot beat the cushy, springy, marshmellow feel of them underfoot...I love them!
I agree, they feel wonderful at first, but after an hour of walking, I can't stand the springiness, takes heaps of energy to get back up from the lowest point and my feet hurt. We are all so different...
 

gittiharre

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF Austria Czech Le Puy Geneva RLS V. Jacobi V. Regia V. Baltica/Scandinavica Porto Muxia
I had plantar fasciitis and did the rolling over golfball exercise and then wore stiff soled boots for a while. It lasted for about 3 months, then disappeared...
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking.
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I agree, they feel wonderful at first, but after an hour of walking, I can't stand the springiness, takes heaps of energy to get back up from the lowest point and my feet hurt. We are all so different...
Sorry to hear that, Gitti. Yes, our feet are like our bodies...no two people's feet are exactly alike.
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
Any advice for plantar fascitis sufferers?
This is from an earlier post of mine. It can help, but is focused more on helping prevent PF. Never the less, the exercises are often recommended during the recovery process. :)
---------------------------------------------------

Top Exercises to Help Avoid Plantar Fasciitis

Plantar fasciitis is a common type of chronic heel pain. It seems to affect young male athletes and middle-aged obese women more than any other group, but that does not mean other groups are immune to it. The inflamed tissue around the heel seems to cause a stabbing-like sensation, which is worse in the morning. This condition may be prevented, and the following exercises will help you do that.

Arch Stretching
Stretching your arch muscles is not too difficult, but the exercise is a little peculiar. The first thing you need to do is take off your shoes and get barefoot, and then place a towel on the floor. Now, simply place your foot on the towel, and curl your toes to clench the towel. Pull the towel toward you, and that is it. Place the towel in front of you again, and repeat. Be sure to do the same for your other foot.

This exercise is typically suggested by professionals for those who actually have plantar fasciitis already, but it can definitely be helpful to everyone. You should try and do this several times a week, but make sure to not overstretch your feet while you’re doing it.

Calf Strengthening
The calf and the tendons surrounding your heel need to be strengthened. A simple exercise that may help you do this is calf raises. What you want to do is stand straight on level ground. You should be barefooted for best traction, but it is not absolutely necessary. Now, all you have to do is lift your heels off the ground so that you are standing on your toes. Stay in this position as long as you can before returning your heels to the ground, and just repeat this at least nine more times.

Another way to do this exercise that works great is to stand at the edge of a stair or curb. You want your toes to be what keeps you on the stair or curb. Then, raise your heels up so that you are on your “tippy toes” and then back down again, but allow your heels to go lower than your toes past the edge of the stair or curb. This exercise allows for a fuller stretch.

Alleviate Pronation
Pronation is a natural part of your foot’s movement. This refers to how the foot rolls and applies pressure when the heel finally hits the ground. Pronation may be normal, but that does not mean the constant shock it receives when you walk or run does not have an effect on it. One way you can alleviate the pressure is to try doming. To do this, just place your foot flat on the ground, and then press your toes on the ground while keeping your heels firmly on the floor. This should create a dome between your heel and toes. Maintain this position for 10 seconds, straighten your foot, and then just start again.

Work the Interossei
The Interossei muscles help support your arch muscles thus preventing this issue. All you have to do is place a large rubber band around your toes for resistance. Then, stretch your toes and hold for 10 seconds. Squeeze your toes for another 10 seconds, and repeat these steps about five to 10 times.

What to Do When Your Feet Are Hurting?
Whether or not you’re at risk of getting Plantar Fasciitis, you’re going to come across a time where you’re feet are going to hurt. Maybe you were standing all day at work, ran a marathon, or whatever. If your feet are hurting, take a break and rest, stretch, and recover. Get off your feet for a little bit and either ice or heat your feet. If you notice any swelling or severe pain, then ice it. If it’s just sore, then apply heat with a hot bath. Then, make sure to rub out the tension and to do some basic exercises. You can try the ones above or do some other types. One popular one is to roll a tennis ball underneath the feet. This helps to preserve the arch and massage it at the same time
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
Haha, I got insoles from a podiatrist, they were too high and I ended up with a stress fracture and lisfrancs joint injury, agonising walking like this. Be very careful, who you choose....I kept on saying, they were too high and the guy said I needed to persist. I was livid. Took me over a year to come kind of right, but only 90% recovered...
A Podiatrist friend told me that orthotics are a routine source of income. He believes too many of his colleagues are far too quick to prescribe their use.

Sports Podiatrists are far more attuned to the needs of athletes and hikers, and usually have more training and experience due to their specialty.
 

gittiharre

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF Austria Czech Le Puy Geneva RLS V. Jacobi V. Regia V. Baltica/Scandinavica Porto Muxia
A Podiatrist friend told me that orthotics are a routine source of income. He believes too many of his colleagues are far too quick to prescribe their use.

Sports Podiatrists are far more attuned to the needs of athletes and hikers, and usually have more training and experience due to their specialty.
I did see a sports podiatrist...
 

Stivandrer

Perambulating & Curious. Rep stravaiging offender
Camino(s) past & future
I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
- or till I fall flat on my face, whichever comes first !!
I have had a low arch from youth and a hurting transverse front arch as well.
After three brands of orthodic inlay soles, I have found the right guy to make them,
I use Bauerfeind soles and after 2014 to current date I now have the most perfect wet footprint that I have ever had. almost normal...
I admire it every day..!
The foot is a wondrous construction !!
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
Does anybody else think that @davebugg 's shoe cupboard must rival Imelda Marcos'? 🥾🥾🥾
You are not far off from the truth, Jeff :)

At one point, I had over 40 pairs of various make and models of everything from trail runners to mountaineering boots stashed in a few storage tubs. When a company has me test a shoe, they usually have me keep them. If something is really negative about a shoe in my reports, the company sometimes will want them back to do a close inspection as part of their QA process, comparing my reported observations with what they actually see on the shoe.

At any rate, I usually end up donating them to one of the homeless Mission shelters in town, IF they clean up well and are not exhibiting too much wear and tear. I've even given a couple away to Forum members :)

You should see the amount of shoes and insoles I have around the house from Amazon and REI when I need to replace my own shoes. Thank goodness for the easy return process. :)
 

Derrybiketours

A journey of 500 miles begins with one step!
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP-SANT-FIN (09/2018)
PORTO-SANT (11/2018)
Caminho Da Fe (01/2019)
SJPdP- Meseta (28/09/2019)
Morrell Moab 2, ankle boot, just tried these on in a Merrell shop and pulled the laces, one of the fasteners pulled straight out and on closer inspection, they are attached to a layer of plastic. Hopeless construction....
Haha, sounds like somebody's had their weetabix. Can't comment on the ankle boot version. Mine is a walking shoe and having walked 2,000 Kms over varied terrain, laces still intact, eyelid's still as good as new, no plastic coming off shoe, and only wear is the fabric at the heel which can be expected after putting feet in and out several hundred time's, a shoe horn should really be used. My trusty loafers were £55 and in my opinion present excellent value for money. Some alternatives costs 3 time's this and would they perform any better 🤔What's your footwear of choice?
 
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willydp

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CI June 2019
I use the BONDI 6 and had no problems from the start. No problems on the Inglés neither.
I recently bought the Altra LP 4 and they need adjustment time.
Walked around 2,5 weeks and I now have pain in my right knee and tibia pain in both legs.
Took the Bondi 6 today and will see if it gets better or not.
Will try again later to see if problem comes back or not.
So train well before you start 😉
And yes, we all have different feet 🙃
Buen Camino
 

Viggen

Vigo
Camino(s) past & future
CF June 2015
CP June 2017
Del Norte, Finisterre / Muxia Oct 2017
VDLP 2018
VF, SBP to Rome 2019
How much cushioning is too much? Here is an interesting study to consider.
  • New research published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine investigated whether runners’ biomechanics change after they train in maximalist shoes for six weeks.
  • The study found that even after becoming acclimated to the mega-cushioned shoes, the runners’ biomechanics stayed the same, and their bodies continued to absorb more impact while running in maximalist shoes compared to regular trainers.
The study found that the Hokas caused greater impact forces and loading rates than the New Balances both before and after the six-week period. Why do these forces matter? Well, common sense tells us that the more the impact our legs and feet absorb, the higher our injury risk.

But here’s the tricky part: While the load may be greater overall in maximalist shoes, it’s absorbed by different body parts than more minimal shoes.

“We’re probably not lowering injury rates with different shoe types, we’re just choosing different injuries,” Richard Willy, Ph.D., a physical therapy and rehabilitation science professor at University of Montana who was not involved in the study, told Runner’s World.
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
How much cushioning is too much? Here is an interesting study to consider.
  • New research published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine investigated whether runners’ biomechanics change after they train in maximalist shoes for six weeks.
  • The study found that even after becoming acclimated to the mega-cushioned shoes, the runners’ biomechanics stayed the same, and their bodies continued to absorb more impact while running in maximalist shoes compared to regular trainers.
The study found that the Hokas caused greater impact forces and loading rates than the New Balances both before and after the six-week period. Why do these forces matter? Well, common sense tells us that the more the impact our legs and feet absorb, the higher our injury risk.

But here’s the tricky part: While the load may be greater overall in maximalist shoes, it’s absorbed by different body parts than more minimal shoes.

“We’re probably not lowering injury rates with different shoe types, we’re just choosing different injuries,” Richard Willy, Ph.D., a physical therapy and rehabilitation science professor at University of Montana who was not involved in the study, told Runner’s World.
Had to Google "maximalist" to convince myself it's a real word. Any idea of the effect on the body of walking in thick soled shoes as opposed to running in them?
 

josephmcclain

Active Member
Have walked two Caminos in HOKAs and had totally fine results. No blisters. No problems. Would also join in recommending Stinson or Bondi. My first ones were Cliftons and I actually needed a wider foot bed, especially on the Camino. I bought insoles for them and found that they worked better for me without them. Simply used the HOKA insole they came with.
 

Carlos Capacete

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Walked from Villafranca del Bierzo to Santiago on Sep 2017. Want to do SJPP to Burgos spring 2018
the Hokas are my favorites! You just cannot beat the cushy, springy, marshmellow feel of them underfoot...I love them!

The Hokas work great in the Camino. My only concern (based on my experience) is that you can wear out the treads. If you’re doing a shorter Camino, by all means do the Holas, not in my opinion they’re not suitable for a 35 Day Camino.
 

bikerkvw

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, Inglish, Camino de la Plata. Future Camino Francis
Having walked 3 Caminos in Salomon Lightweight Boots it's time for a change. To Trail Runners.

@davebugg These are the Hokas available in Sydney. Models keep changing.
Which would you recommend? :oops:

I being my 5th camino in 10 days. I use to use Keen Tarhee III hiking boots. I now use Hoka Stinson ATR something. I love them. I am bring two pair with me. I will be switching out each week. I am walking a longer Camino combining the Frances with the Sanabrea. My total distance will be about 1100 kms. I love these Trail Runners. It took me two weeks to get use to the feel. I have great support in them. In my training I have only walked 6 miles in them. However, my feet do not hurt nor do I have hot spots. I wear Darn Tough ankle high socks. Buen Camino
 

NorthernLight

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
Not all Hoka One Ones fit the same way, not all have the same level of cushioning, and tread patterns differ.

I have Hoka's Clifton 5, a Bondi 6 Wide and I test drove the Challenger. Each fit slightly differently and each had some advantages over the other between cushioning and tread. Any would be fine on camino, imho, as long as the fit is great. The Clifton's arch support is positioned perfectly for me but I would get the wide version for camino use. The Bondi is more neutral but more cushioned and -for me- will likely get used with an alternate insole. The Challenger went back to the store as it wasn't perfect, but I had liked that it was wider and had some cushioning.

I have Altras Lone Peak 4s which I'm slowly acclimating to ... these might be my favourites.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
:) Altras are very good shoes, but they do require an additional set of evaluation criteria for the user's consideration if they have never worn an Altra shoe before.

For some folks, Altras are just not suitable. The 'zero drop concept' of the shoe's profile can take weeks for some folks to adapt to. Some folks never get used to them or dislike the 'feel'. For many people, they adapt immediately or very quickly and never look back.

I advise everyone that considers Altra, or other manufacturers of zero drop shoes, to allow a good amount of time for a proper evaluation of fit and feel. Even if they feel good out of the box, issues can develop days after one starts using them. This does not apply to those who have already been using zero drop shoes.
Dave, as you know I am in love with my Altras and owe it all to you. But I have a curiosity question. I used my silicone orthotics instead of the insole the shoes come with and had absolutely no ill effects. Is there typically a problem with upsetting the zero drop feature by adding orthotics?
 

Viggen

Vigo
Camino(s) past & future
CF June 2015
CP June 2017
Del Norte, Finisterre / Muxia Oct 2017
VDLP 2018
VF, SBP to Rome 2019
Had to Google "maximalist" to convince myself it's a real word. Any idea of the effect on the body of walking in thick soled shoes as opposed to running in them?
Most studies are done on runners, but the results can apply to walkers to a lesser extent.
I personally prefer a shoe with enough cushioning that still allows for a minimal feel of the surface.
The feel of the surface is important in sending neural signals to the brain, in return for the brain to control balance, movement, and coordination (how your muscles work together), minimizing injuries.
 

bbates225

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June/July (2017) Camino Frances (couldn't finish)
June/July (2020) Camino Frances (will try again)
:) Altras are very good shoes, but they do require an additional set of evaluation criteria for the user's consideration if they have never worn an Altra shoe before.

For some folks, Altras are just not suitable. The 'zero drop concept' of the shoe's profile can take weeks for some folks to adapt to. Some folks never get used to them or dislike the 'feel'. For many people, they adapt immediately or very quickly and never look back.

I advise everyone that considers Altra, or other manufacturers of zero drop shoes, to allow a good amount of time for a proper evaluation of fit and feel. Even if they feel good out of the box, issues can develop days after one starts using them. This does not apply to those who have already been using zero drop shoes.
Okay... this may or may not be a dumb question but I need to know (since I am still looking for a shoe/boot to work for my next Camino. What is "zero drop" vs. and other "drop". What's "drop"?
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
Okay... this may or may not be a dumb question but I need to know (since I am still looking for a shoe/boot to work for my next Camino. What is "zero drop" vs. and other "drop". What's "drop"?
Traditional shoes have a profile where the toes will sit a tiny bit lower than the heel. The amount varies based on the profile of the footwear. A most extreme example would be the high heels of a woman's shoe.

Zero Drop means that the heel and toe sit at the same plain. Neither the toes or the heel sit higher than the other.

Hope this helps lessen the confusion of the terminology :)
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
Dave, as you know I am in love with my Altras and owe it all to you. But I have a curiosity question. I used my silicone orthotics instead of the insole the shoes come with and had absolutely no ill effects. Is there typically a problem with upsetting the zero drop feature by adding orthotics?
Not really. Sometimes going away from the zero drop aspect of the shoe can feel a bit strange, but stresses to the foot and ankle structures should not be an issue. It COULD affect the profile of the shoe, though. Adding an insole or orthotic might change the zero drop aspect and make it more like a traditional shoe.

It just depends on the product.
 

Viggen

Vigo
Camino(s) past & future
CF June 2015
CP June 2017
Del Norte, Finisterre / Muxia Oct 2017
VDLP 2018
VF, SBP to Rome 2019
Okay... this may or may not be a dumb question but I need to know (since I am still looking for a shoe/boot to work for my next Camino. What is "zero drop" vs. and other "drop". What's "drop"?
Zero Drop.jpg
 

camino.ninja

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (5 6,16,17,18,19)
Primiti+Salvador (19)
Portug. (17,18)
Catalan (17)
Norte (17)
Plata (18)
After 4 Caminos I firmly believe trail runners are the best option. I love them and have never had a blister or foot trouble.
Best I've used so far is Asics Gel-Sonoma GTX. I pair them with sandals though. So every time my feet gets hot I switch to sandals. But shoes are really individual and you just have to try. And what works at home might not work on the Camino.

The Asics Gel-Sonoma GTX is the most comfortable trail runners I've used so far. And they last about 3 times longer than other trail runners I've tried so far. And they become more comfortable the more you use them as well.
 

G3n0

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
no
Having walked 3 Caminos in Salomon Lightweight Boots it's time for a change. To Trail Runners.

@davebugg These are the Hokas available in Sydney. Models keep changing.
Which would you recommend? :oops:

I had a great Camino, April 2019, in Hoka Speedgoats. Not only was the walk blister free but I never even felt a hot spot. I wore Darn tough merino socks with them.
 

Re-tired

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances
I wear Stinson ATR everywhere. I can't recommend them enough. The cushion is supreme.
 

Doughnut NZ

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2019)
I used Asics GEL-SONOMA 4 (4E WIDEST) trail runners on the Frances and had no blisters. I loved them. I am a typical Kiwi from the 50's and so I never wore shoes at all until I was 6 years old and then only if I was going somewhere special or the ice on the ground was too thick. As a result my feet tend to over pronate. Usually I have used walking shoes that correct my over pronation but walking my Camino I didn't find that I had a problem. The extra wide probably helped my pronation and also allowed for heat expansion of my feet while retaining a firm fit around my ankles to stop my feet sliding down my shoes when I walk downhill.
 

camino.ninja

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (5 6,16,17,18,19)
Primiti+Salvador (19)
Portug. (17,18)
Catalan (17)
Norte (17)
Plata (18)
I used Asics GEL-SONOMA 4 (4E WIDEST) trail runners on the Frances and had no blisters. I loved them. I am a typical Kiwi from the 50's and so I never wore shoes at all until I was 6 years old and then only if I was going somewhere special or the ice on the ground was too thick. As a result my feet tend to over pronate. Usually I have used walking shoes that correct my over pronation but walking my Camino I didn't find that I had a problem. The extra wide probably helped my pronation and also allowed for heat expansion of my feet while retaining a firm fit around my ankles to stop my feet sliding down my shoes when I walk downhill.
I have a regular foot and they where wide enough in the forefoot to expand ...just the regular with ones. And I usually have to get the wide ones. Also they expand ...they are not fixed in the forefoot like most trail runners.
 

Evvie

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
September 2019
I have worn Hoka One Ones, Sauconys, Keens, and Asics, and have had good luck and no blisters, but the Hokas are my favorites! You just cannot beat the cushy, springy, marshmellow feel of them underfoot...I love them!
I've been going back and forth between my trusty Lowa Renegades and Hoka One One's, and I've decided to stick with my Lowa's. I find that the trail runners are too "squishy" for my feet, meaning I don't feel the stability I do in my boots. As everyone says it's an individual decision.
 

Pilgy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
C. Francés April 06, C. Fisterre May 06, C. Frances Oct 17, C. Portuguese Oct 18, C. Inglese Nov 18
I have worn Hoka One Ones, Sauconys, Keens, and Asics, and have had good luck and no blisters, but the Hokas are my favorites! You just cannot beat the cushy, springy, marshmellow feel of them underfoot...I love them!
Hmmm, its the cushy feeling of the Altras that I really dislike actually! I feel as if all my momentum is lost in the sponginess. And then there is the dreaded zero drop which I find to be tiring.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking.
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Hmmm, its the cushy feeling of the Altras that I really dislike actually! I feel as if all my momentum is lost in the sponginess. And then there is the dreaded zero drop which I find to be tiring.
I never noticed any zero drop...guess I didn't pay attention. All feet are different. The Hokas served me well!
 

sjdaotearoa

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo (2018)
Another vote for Hoka Stintson here. Together with Ininji toe socks, not a foot issue the whole way.
 
Camino(s) past & future
August 2015
Having walked 3 Caminos in Salomon Lightweight Boots it's time for a change. To Trail Runners.

@davebugg These are the Hokas available in Sydney. Models keep changing.
Which would you recommend? :oops:

I wore Hoka Torrent men’s trail runners for my third Camino and only had one small blister. Usually I get tons. Good luck and Buen Camino.
 

jrenner

camino Frances SEPT 18
Camino(s) past & future
CF, Sept - Oct (2018)
Brooks Cascadia 13 and merino wool socks kept all blisters at bay and the sole plates kept my foot bed unbruised. Can't recommend this combo enough. >1000km including pre-camino walks.
 

terryvinet

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances/Finest September 2013
VDLP September 2016
Salamanca to Santiago/Finesterra/Muxia 2017

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member

Behold the very pinnacle of bi-pedal locomotive technology. 😉
Uh, oh. Given our very convoluted and prolonged discussion of trademarks and buffs, I wonder if the Fat Tire shoe is going to have a problem?!

 

crbonade

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Primitivo (2020)
I have had a low arch from youth and a hurting transverse front arch as well.
After three brands of orthodic inlay soles, I have found the right guy to make them,
I use Bauerfeind soles and after 2014 to current date I now have the most perfect wet footprint that I have ever had. almost normal...
I admire it every day..!
The foot is a wondrous construction !!
The Bauerfeind ViscoPed insoles? (I'm experimenting with different insoles right now, might give these a try)
 

Stivandrer

Perambulating & Curious. Rep stravaiging offender
Camino(s) past & future
I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
- or till I fall flat on my face, whichever comes first !!
nope, thissa one:

20190813_190709.jpg

different density zones; white is the hardest area, holds in the rim of the heel;
the dark blue area, mid density, for the pelota for front arch,
- and lighter blue for low density..
This distrubution, my feet can comprehend.
This is the one for the hardest load on the foot model .
Like you I have tried heat moulded insoles, premade run of the mill, off the shelf ones.
But these work for me. Low tech and practical...
And then there´s the orthodopist who can read my feet, of course,
Bless him!!
 

bbates225

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June/July (2017) Camino Frances (couldn't finish)
June/July (2020) Camino Frances (will try again)
Traditional shoes have a profile where the toes will sit a tiny bit lower than the heel. The amount varies based on the profile of the footwear. A most extreme example would be the high heels of a woman's shoe.

Zero Drop means that the heel and toe sit at the same plain. Neither the toes or the heel sit higher than the other.

Hope this helps lessen the confusion of the terminology :)
It certainly does help lessen the confusion. Now I feel more "in the know" ;) Thanks much!
 

bbates225

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June/July (2017) Camino Frances (couldn't finish)
June/July (2020) Camino Frances (will try again)
I agree, they feel wonderful at first, but after an hour of walking, I can't stand the springiness, takes heaps of energy to get back up from the lowest point and my feet hurt. We are all so different...
I wondered about all that cushiness and springiness... this helps to know the downsides. I have never hiked anywhere in anything but boots, both hi and low, and walking on what sounds like marshmallows is a new concept to me. I'll have to try them out, though, before saying no. My pastor highly recommended Hokas this past Sunday. He walked the Camino Norte in them, although he wore them out before finishing and had to buy something different to complete his walk. Yes, we are all so different.
 

bbates225

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
June/July (2017) Camino Frances (couldn't finish)
June/July (2020) Camino Frances (will try again)
I've been going back and forth between my trusty Lowa Renegades and Hoka One One's, and I've decided to stick with my Lowa's. I find that the trail runners are too "squishy" for my feet, meaning I don't feel the stability I do in my boots. As everyone says it's an individual decision.
Thank you for this. I just responded to another post about the "squishy" marshmallow feel. I've always liked the stability of a boot, but I ended up with bursitis in both heels in 2017 and couldn't finish. I've been trying anything and everything since. Love REI's return policy. So far my feet haven't taken to anything. I have to come up with something to try and to break in by summer 2020. The blisters don't scare me (didn't have any), but the bursitis was more than I could deal with 😫
 

Robo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
Many thanks Dave. I'll go try some.

The extra cushioning sounds good.

I discovered from my Podiatrist, who by the way is based at Sydney Olympic Park Sports Medicine Centre (so should know what he's doing I hope, that as we age we lose the natural cushioning on our heels!
Just a thought @davebugg .

With this style of trail runner, I presume your feet get wet when it rains! :eek:

Wet feet.............must lead to blisters? Never had blisters yet, and don't want them.

I just noticed this pic come up, and it reminded me that Pat and I have worn waterproof boots to date. Whilst she looks like a 'drowned rat', totally dry on the inside..........
Am I swapping boots for shoes to gain one thing and lose another I wonder? :rolleyes:

 

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