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Tourniquet: Does anyone bring one on the Camino?

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
I was wondering if anyone brings a tourniquet that is light and easy to use? Recommendations welcome.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
No, but I bring a couple of multi purpose lightweight cotton bandanas. I figure one can be used as a tourniquet if needed. In heat I saturate one in water and tie around my neck to cool off. Another use is as a face washcloth in the morning before heading out. Then I just tie it on the outside of my pack to dry. I've even seen a couple of people tie them tightly around their knee to help reduce strain and pain.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Members are reminded that using tourniquets on the necks of persistent snorers is actively discouraged in most Albergues...
Now there's an idea...but wait, someone might use it on me! Talk about a multiuse item!
 

nycwalking

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Ourense to Santiago (2019), CF: (2014, 2004, 2002, 2001). On to Fisterra, (2002, 4, 14).
I was wondering if anyone brings a tourniquet that is light and easy to use? Recommendations welcome.

Oh my. In my provincial understanding a tourniquet is used fir broken bones until help comes.

Buen camino tourniquet and all.
 

alaskadiver

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
May 2017-Camino Primitivo
April 2019-Camino de Invierno
Oh my. In my provincial understanding a tourniquet is used fir broken bones until help comes.

Buen camino tourniquet and all.
No, most definitely not used for that purpose :) Splints are used to imoblize limbs that are broken.
A tourniquet is to control excessive bleeding of a vein or artery and should only be applied by someone who knows what they are doing.
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2020? Looks like.... nowhere! 😁
Oh my. In my provincial understanding a tourniquet is used fir broken bones until help comes.

Buen camino tourniquet and all.
Oh my. In my provincial understanding a tourniquet is used fir broken bones until help comes.

Buen camino tourniquet and all.

I think it is used to control profuse bleeding? Trouble is, unless you know what you are doing, you could make things worse and the person lose a limb :confused:
So my answer is no, I don't carry one. It can be made up with what you have at hand but regretfully, am not that good at first aid. :(
 

nycwalking

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Ourense to Santiago (2019), CF: (2014, 2004, 2002, 2001). On to Fisterra, (2002, 4, 14).
I think it is used to control profuse bleeding? Trouble is, unless you know what you are doing, you could make things worse and the person lose a limb :confused:
So my answer is no, I don't carry one. It can be made up with what you have at hand but regretfully, am not that good at first aid. :(
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
If one were to puncture a major artery in the thigh, one would only have several minutes before one would bleed to death. Loss of life due to bleeding outweighs loss of limb due to complications with tourniquet use.
 
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alaskadiver

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
May 2017-Camino Primitivo
April 2019-Camino de Invierno
If one were to puncture a major artery in the thigh, one would only have several minutes before one would bleed to death. Loss of life due to bleeding outweighs loss of limb due to complications with tourniquet use.
A highly unlikely event on the Camino. If you want to carry the extra stuff that of course is your choice. But remember the saying "don't pack your fears".
 

GettingThere

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Roncesvalles-SdC Apr-Jun 2015
Roncesvalles-Sarria Sep-Oct 2017
C. Frances sections Apr-Jun 2019
I think this would probably be at the more extreme end of the "just in case" spectrum - but @Marbe2 if it's light and makes you feel better to carry one, and you know what you're doing with it, then by all means. Personally I would not carry a tourniquet - for many reasons including that I have been taught that direct pressure on a wound is the preferred first aid method these days for severe bleeding, unless you are trained and experienced in tourniquet application. A person could bleed out while an inexperienced first-aider fumbled around trying to correctly apply a tourniquet rather than pressing on a wound. It would not take "several minutes" for a severed femoral artery to lead to unconsciousness then death.

Then again, I would also not carry a portable defibrillator, even if light as a feather. Or anything but the most basic of first aid supplies - although I know there are some who carry comprehensive kits to enable them to assist others, for which I applaud them.
 

Anamya

Keeping it simple
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015)
Portugues (2017)
Lebaniego (2019)
I'd never carry one - extra weight and I don´t know how to use it. Instead, I have some normal bandage and the emergency number (112) memorized on my phone.
 

MeandIan

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
May2018
There are many things that can be used as a tourniquet. But unless you know how much pressure to apply, and where, it will be extremely dangerous. Too loose and it will be ineffective and too tight will result in tissue damage and subsequent death of the tissue, with gangrene and possible death of the limb. And unless it is an injury where a tourniquet is the only alternative then by all means. If there is an injury where there is a lot of bleeding, then applying firm pressure on the area will be effective. Then maintain the pressure until the paramedics arrive
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
This thread seems to have evolved into a class one might take in medical school... "Paramedics #101". I never before knew all of the ins and outs of tourniquet use!
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean May/June 2017. Plans to walk Porto 2020
I was wondering if anyone brings a tourniquet that is light and easy to use? Recommendations welcome.

May I ask what you intend to use it for?? From my first aid training, tourniquets are out, pressure bandages are preferred!! But hey its a good question!
 

GaryAus

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF December 2017
It’s under “Calm Down” thread. The general view is that experience really does count. How we all had anxieties and massive over-thinking prior to our 1st Camino, but now having done it, we all have a laugh about how we micro-thought everything......and how much easier and calmer a 2nd Camino would be.
 

Kitsambler

Jakobsweg Junkie
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy 2010-11, Prague 2012, Nuremberg 2013, Einsiedeln 2015, Geneva 2017-19
No need to carry a tourniquet. Belts, bandannas, even long-sleeved shirts work just fine. But realistically speaking, the only time you are likely to see this type of injury while walking a Camino is a gunshot wound or an automobile accident.
 
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domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2020? Looks like.... nowhere! 😁
It’s under “Calm Down” thread. The general view is that experience really does count. How we all had anxieties and massive over-thinking prior to our 1st Camino, but now having done it, we all have a laugh about how we micro-thought everything......and how much easier and calmer a 2nd Camino would be.
Thanks!
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
No, I don't carry a tourniquet, but what about a rope ladder? As an emergency fire escape. All those second story buildings with only one set of stairs.

If we think hard we could come up with numerous bits of kit that might come in handy in an emergency.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Just a thought.....
We carried tourniquets in what we called 'blow out kits' in combat. Now a days, a blow out kit would have one of these types of tourniquets. But, if you were going to carry a tourniquet, why not also include a clotting agent, a chest seal, and a pressure bandage? Each item has a similar chance of being needed in an emergent situation.

Knowledge of first aid provides the ability to adequately improvise items which are not usually carried in a casual first aid kit. All I need to make sure of is having the knowledge and ability to help stabilize, or to slow down the degenerating effects of trauma, to someone until help arrives. Given the nature of most areas of Caminos, that help is not a prolonged wait as if one were in a backcountry wilderness area.
 

chinacat

Veteran Member
Warning: not suitable for serious injury!!

My husband sliced the corner of his finger off with a cut throat razor.
Prolonged pressure didn’t stop the bleeding.
I got the cayenne pepper and, having asked his permission, scattered it on the wound.
The effect was instantaneous. It stopped the bleeding dead .... it was very strange to see it happen.

I did have to retrieve him from the ceiling though .....
 

LGLG

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP - Finisterre (2005) ; LePuy - Muxia (2007) ; Porto - SC. (2009) planning Lourdes- SC (2018)
Warning: not suitable for serious injury!!

My husband sliced the corner of his finger off with a cut throat razor.
Prolonged pressure didn’t stop the bleeding.
I got the cayenne pepper and, having asked his permission, scattered it on the wound.
The effect was instantaneous. It stopped the bleeding dead .... it was very strange to see it happen.

I did have to retrieve him from the ceiling though .....
I'm rethinking pepper spray now ... ha
 

MichaelC

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Aug 2017: Le Puy to Santiago
Nov 2018: Kumano Kodo (part)
2021 (?): Via Francigena, Aosta to Rome
Warning: not suitable for serious injury!!

My husband sliced the corner of his finger off with a cut throat razor.
Prolonged pressure didn’t stop the bleeding.
I got the cayenne pepper and, having asked his permission, scattered it on the wound.
The effect was instantaneous. It stopped the bleeding dead .... it was very strange to see it happen.

I did have to retrieve him from the ceiling though .....

You can also use tobacco to cauterize a wound.

I can vouch that it works, though I could have used you around to pull me from the ceiling.
 
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Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Currently on a "Virtual" Camino and striding out across Castile y Leon!
Just a thought.....
We carried tourniquets in what we called 'blow out kits' in combat. Now a days, a blow out kit would have one of these types of tourniquets. But, if you were going to carry a tourniquet, why not also include a clotting agent, a chest seal, and a pressure bandage? Each item has a similar chance of being needed in an emergent situation.

Knowledge of first aid provides the ability to adequately improvise items which are not usually carried in a casual first aid kit. All I need to make sure of is having the knowledge and ability to help stabilize, or to slow down the degenerating effects of trauma, to someone until help arrives. Given the nature of most areas of Caminos, that help is not a prolonged wait as if one were in a backcountry wilderness area.
Can we borrow the Huey to carry it all (plus back packs of course!)?
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Currently on a "Virtual" Camino and striding out across Castile y Leon!
Warning: not suitable for serious injury!!

My husband sliced the corner of his finger off with a cut throat razor.
Prolonged pressure didn’t stop the bleeding.
I got the cayenne pepper and, having asked his permission, scattered it on the wound.
The effect was instantaneous. It stopped the bleeding dead .... it was very strange to see it happen.

I did have to retrieve him from the ceiling though .....
I once got some Tabasco sauce in a paper cut on my finger (and then stuck aforementioned finger in mouth!) - I can only applaud your husband on having the presence of mind to stop at the ceiling.
 
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Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
It’s under “Calm Down” thread. The general view is that experience really does count. How we all had anxieties and massive over-thinking prior to our 1st Camino, but now having done it, we all have a laugh about how we micro-thought everything......and how much easier and calmer a 2nd Camino would be.

With all due respect, to what I consider an most empty cliche, @ response “calm down” I have almost 40years of mountain hiking experience and this is my fourth Camiño on the CF! So I am well aware of the terrain.

My sister has already been hit by a mountain bike. The section from Sarria to Santiago IMO is ripe for someone getting seriously injured.

A puncture wound on a rock could also cause an artery to severe. How many recent falls have been reported?

I do appreciate being reminded about applying pressure first, of course.

Recently there was an accident reported where the parents who were cycling the Camino were killed and the son critically injured in a car accident? I wonder if there had been a tourniquet around might the outcome for for one of them been different?

I am looking for a lite weight tourniquet which is most efficient. Thank you for any assistance.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(May 2018)
VdlP (2022?)
May I ask what you intend to use it for?? From my first aid training, tourniquets are out, pressure bandages are preferred!! But hey its a good question!

Pat and I did a first aid course refresher before our last Camino.
I have done many over the years,
As you say, tourniquets are out and no longer taught in first aid.
Only for use by medical professionals.
 

MeandIan

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
May2018
Warning: not suitable for serious injury!!

My husband sliced the corner of his finger off with a cut throat razor.
Prolonged pressure didn’t stop the bleeding.
I got the cayenne pepper and, having asked his permission, scattered it on the wound.
The effect was instantaneous. It stopped the bleeding dead .... it was very strange to see it happen.

I did have to retrieve him from the ceiling though .....
You can use turmeric powder. Mum still uses it in the kitchen all the time
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
IMHO, do not spend money on a purpose-made emergency tourniquet. Instead, wear a nylon web belt with an infinitely adjustable buckle. The standard military type, web pants belt is ideal for this. I wear a 1 1/2" wide "tactical' web belt and it does three things:

1. Holds my hiking cargo pants up...always a good thing.o_O
2. Can replace the identical-width rucksack waist belt if need be...this was written about previously.
3. Can be used as a tourniquet or to fashion a splint, also if need be.
4. Additional uses are limited by one's imagination.

These belts can be found in military surplus, rugged outdoor, and law enforcement supply stores and on the web. Search for a tactical belt. They can be found in a 1.25", 1.5" or 1.75" width. After that, fitting belt loops on trousers is problematic. Also, most rucksack waist belts are 1.5 inches wide. Do measure yours before ordering or buying. This way, your trouser belt will fit the plastic rucksack hardware.

The web belt can be cut to length if desired and the cut ends seared with a flame to melt the stringy bits. However, I leave mine at the maximum length, and I buy mine longer than I need. You can always cutoff excess, but you cannot add that extra inch or two when desperately needed.

Do try to challenge ANYTHING you decide to carry or wear, such that it MUST do at least two things, or be in standby to do an ancillary function, as above. I find that is the sole way I can get my rucksack carry weight anywhere NEAR 10 kg.

Hope this helps.
 
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Constantine

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2013, 2014
No, most definitely not used for that purpose :) Splints are used to imoblize limbs that are broken.
A tourniquet is to control excessive bleeding of a vein or artery and should only be applied by someone who knows what they are doing.
That’s true but a limb can be completely deprived of blood flow for up to two hours safely. After that, there is a risk of nerve damage. I’ve used tourniquets in the OR for extremity surgery for 30 years. CK, MD
 

pelerine

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte 10, Primitivo 13, Plata 14+15, Salvador 16, Torres 17, Portugues 18, Mozarabe 19
That’s true but a limb can be completely deprived of blood flow for up to two hours safely. After that, there is a risk of nerve damage. I’ve used tourniquets in the OR for extremity surgery for 30 years. CK, MD

Therefore don’t forget to write the time on the tourniquet you applied.
 

pelerine

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte 10, Primitivo 13, Plata 14+15, Salvador 16, Torres 17, Portugues 18, Mozarabe 19
No, I don't carry a tourniquet, but what about a rope ladder? As an emergency fire escape. All those second story buildings with only one set of stairs.

If we think hard we could come up with numerous bits of kit that might come in handy in an emergency.
A corkscrew for those wine bottles :cool:

Is this a serious thread or what?!?
 

SabineP

Camino = Gratitude + Compassion.
Camino(s) past & future
some and then more. see my signature.
I was completely flabbergasted because a tourniquet for us is also a turnstile at the metro or an iron turning gate on a walkway...
Now then you would need a mighty big backpack....:)
Anyway...good to see there are more non serious threads here....:p
 

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ),Via San Francesco(2017) Camino Portugese (2018 )Camino Ingles(2019) CF
No, but I bring a couple of multi purpose lightweight cotton bandanas. I figure one can be used as a tourniquet if needed. In heat I saturate one in water and tie around my neck to cool off. Another use is as a face washcloth in the morning before heading out. Then I just tie it on the outside of my pack to dry. I've even seen a couple of people tie them tightly around their knee to help reduce strain and pain.
Yep, I second the bandana, for all of the reasons you mention and more...yes, worth their tiny weight and cost in gold!
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Currently on a "Virtual" Camino and striding out across Castile y Leon!
With all due respect, to what I consider an most empty cliche, @ response “calm down” I have almost 40years of mountain hiking experience and this is my fourth Camiño on the CF! So I am well aware of the terrain.

My sister has already been hit by a mountain bike. The section from Sarria to Santiago IMO is ripe for someone getting seriously injured.

A puncture wound on a rock could also cause an artery to severe. How many recent falls have been reported?

I do appreciate being reminded about applying pressure first, of course.

Recently there was an accident reported where the parents who were cycling the Camino were killed and the son critically injured in a car accident? I wonder if there had been a tourniquet around might the outcome for for one of them been different?

I am looking for a lite weight tourniquet which is most efficient. Thank you for any assistance.
As a former first-aider I was always told to steer clear of tourniquets. Having read THIS only confirms that position as does this letter from the Royal College of Surgeons so I'd be happy to slap a pressure dressing and call for a competent person to take over!
 

easygoing

Camino Sharon
Camino(s) past & future
I have walked the Camino Francis 7 times, twice in 2017 and 2018. (2019)
I was wondering if anyone brings a tourniquet that is light and easy to use? Recommendations welcome.
You brought a good chuckle to me this morning. The Camino is not a wilderness hike but I know accidents can happen any place but a tourniquet is not necessary and handkerchief will do just fine.
It's is good to be prepared
 

Constantine

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2013, 2014
That’s true but a limb can be completely deprived of blood flow for up to two hours safely. After that, there is a risk of nerve damage. I’ve used tourniquets in the OR for extremity surgery for 30 years. CK, MD
Therefore don’t forget to write the time on the tourniquet you applied.

Always a good idea to note the time.
Just be aware that its not easy (or even necessary) to get total cessation of blood flow.

We set our tourniquets at 100 mmHg *above* systolic BP to ensure obstuction of arterial blood flow BUT even then, larger or cone shaped limbs (thighs and upper arms) are sometimes hard to do. Not sure you could ever get that with a bandana BUT partial obstruction would be helpful in reducing the rate of arterial blood loss (slowing it down) if you couldn’t stop it totally, until help arrives.

If you can get total obstruction, release some pressure slowly at two hours, and reapply in a few minutes. The bleeding may have stopped, and you can let the nerves have some blood flow (=oxygen delivery). And hopefully, help will have arrived within two hours!
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
Always a good idea to note the time.
Just be aware that its not easy (or even necessary) to get total cessation of blood flow.

We set our tourniquets at 100 mmHg *above* systolic BP to ensure obstuction of arterial blood flow BUT even then, larger or cone shaped limbs (thighs and upper arms) are sometimes hard to do. Not sure you could ever get that with a bandana BUT partial obstruction would be helpful in reducing the rate of arterial blood loss (slowing it down) if you couldn’t stop it totally, until help arrives.

If you can get total obstruction, release some pressure slowly at two hours, and reapply in a few minutes. The bleeding may have stopped, and you can let the nerves have some blood flow (=oxygen delivery). And hopefully, help will have arrived within two hours!

Thank you Constantine. Of course, I would always choose to apply pressure to the wound first. We sometimes do the CF when one does not see any one for hours especially going over the mountains in winter.

I am aware that once the tourniquet is in place one needs to release after two hours. Hopefully by then help would have arrived.

Do you know of any lite weight tourniquet that is Effective? I do not think either that a bandana or a handkerchief would be effective on a thigh!! Your input is most appreciated.
 

Fudwicket

New Member
If I had even the slightest idea what half this thread is speaking about I would then have half the idea of carrying this "item". Spain is not a 3rd world country you ring 112 and help would be minutes away. I have seen the rescue helicopters flying over the Camino and Cities. If you feel safer walking with a lemon balanced on your head then do so. I personally would never carry a piece of equipment that I do not know 110% of how to use it that include First Aid and also my cellphone :)
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
The standard military type, web pants belt is ideal for this. I wear a 1 1/2" wide "tactical' web belt and it does three things:

Thank you for this suggestion. I will check it out.
 

Irish Bernie

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francis 2013-2014-2015,16 and June 2017,May 2018,Sept 2018.
Thank you Constantine. Of course, I would always choose to apply pressure to the wound first. We sometimes do the CF when one does not see any one for hours especially going over the mountains in winter.

I am aware that once the tourniquet is in place one needs to release after two hours. Hopefully by then help would have arrived.

Do you know of any lite weight tourniquet that is Effective? I do not think either that a bandana or a handkerchief would be effective on a thigh!! Your input is most appreciated.

Nooooooo,every 15mins :O!!!!
 

Ed Aster

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances May 2017
I am sitting here in a little town on the North Island in New Zealand reading this thread and laughing my head off. Thanks for the funny and hilarious input form all those with tongue in cheek as well as those a bit too serious. I will start my day of with laughter.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Lots ;0)
Ah, this forum at its best: sound advice, a little levity and even some controversy amongst first-responders reflecting their personal experience and, perhaps, national standards of best practice. Excellent. Thank-you all for your contributions.

Though I'm probably fondest of the suggestion from @Irish Bernie. Piano string. Who'd have thought it ;0)
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
If I had even the slightest idea what half this thread is speaking about I would then have half the idea of carrying this "item". Spain is not a 3rd world country you ring 112 and help would be minutes away. I have seen the rescue helicopters flying over the Camino and Cities. If you feel safer walking with a lemon balanced on your head then do so. I personally would never carry a piece of equipment that I do not know 110% of how to use it that include First Aid and also my cellphone :)

Fudwicket,
I agree! You should never carry a piece of equipment that you do not know how to use! You are making the right choice for yourself! Walk with those lemons then;););)!
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
Just a thought.....
We carried tourniquets in what we called 'blow out kits' in combat. Now a days, a blow out kit would have one of these types of tourniquets. But, if you were going to carry a tourniquet, why not also include a clotting agent, a chest seal, and a pressure bandage? Each item has a similar chance of being needed in an emergent situation.

Knowledge of first aid provides the ability to adequately improvise items which are not usually carried in a casual first aid kit. All I need to make sure of is having the knowledge and ability to help stabilize, or to slow down the degenerating effects of trauma, to someone until help arrives. Given the nature of most areas of Caminos, that help is not a prolonged wait as if one were in a backcountry wilderness area.

Thank you for your sound suggestions.
I ordered a couple of pressure bandages. Already have gauze pads with clotting agent. Good advice. Still searching for a lite tourniquet.
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Thank you for your sound suggestions.
I ordered a couple of pressure bandages. Already have gauze pads with clotting agent. Good advice. Still searching for a lite tourniquet.

Hi, Marbe....

The reason why it is so difficult to find a 'light' tourniquet is because of its mechanics vs tissue preservation. Let me explain.

A tourniquet is designed to apply an exponential pressure through many layers of dermis, fat, and muscle. That pressure is designed to be forceful enough to literally 'crush' the arterial or venous structure between all that tissue and bone. It is the 'sandwich' of the bleeder caught between the tissue and the bone which allows the tourniquet to function.

The actual forces applied to the tissue as the tourniquet constricts, in order to overcome the hydrostatic pressure needed to compress the vessel, is tremendous when measured by PSI. A tourniquet that is made from materials which are makeshift, or thin, or too wide or too narrow, etc can not only require even more force, but can apply that force in such a way that more damage to tissue occurs than is necessary. In an emergent crisis, that is not the biggest concern; reducing the loss of blood is.

In other words, one can obtain a tourniquet that will effectively, and with minimal trauma, do the job. It will also make the operation of the tourniquet much easier and be less painful to the victim. Or one can go for a lighter, less well designed tourniquet which makes its operation more difficult, and increase trauma to the victim.

In terms of functionality, most makeshift tourniquets will do the same job with the same amount of effort, and create the same level of tissue trauma as a lighter tourniquet of lesser design.

So, if one is set on carrying a tourniquet, as a former Dustoff flight combat medic and as someone with advanced certification in wilderness first aid, I would get the best tool for the job -- which will add little additional weight over lesser tools -- or become versed in using field expedient tourniquets and thus saving weight. For me to carry a tourniquet, saving weight would be the least consideration in my algorithm. :)
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
I am looking for a lite weight tourniquet which is most efficient. Thank you for any assistance.[/QUOTE said:
A lightweight rubber tube. Preferably something with other purposes, too. Throw it in your pack.
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
Davebugg, You know you're a nerd, right? :D

Hi, Marbe....

The reason why it is so difficult to find a 'light' tourniquet is because of its mechanics vs tissue preservation. Let me explain.

A tourniquet is designed to apply an exponential pressure through many layers of dermis, fat, and muscle. That pressure is designed to be forceful enough to literally 'crush' the arterial or venous structure between all that tissue and bone. It is the 'sandwich' of the bleeder caught between the tissue and the bone which allows the tourniquet to function.

The actual forces applied to the tissue as the tourniquet constricts, in order to overcome the hydrostatic pressure needed to compress the vessel, is tremendous when measured by PSI. A tourniquet that is made from materials which are makeshift, or thin, or too wide or too narrow, etc can not only require even more force, but can apply that force in such a way that more damage to tissue occurs than is necessary. In an emergent crisis, that is not the biggest concern; reducing the loss of blood is.

In other words, one can obtain a tourniquet that will effectively, and with minimal trauma, do the job. It will also make the operation of the tourniquet much easier and be less painful to the victim. Or one can go for a lighter, less well designed tourniquet which makes its operation more difficult, and increase trauma to the victim.

In terms of functionality, most makeshift tourniquets will do the same job with the same amount of effort, and create the same level of tissue trauma as a lighter tourniquet of lesser design.

So, if one is set on carrying a tourniquet, as a former Dustoff flight combat medic and as someone with advanced certification in wilderness first aid, I would get the best tool for the job -- which will add little additional weight over lesser tools -- or become versed in using field expedient tourniquets and thus saving weight. For me to carry a tourniquet, saving weight would be the least consideration in my algorithm. :)
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Davebugg, You know you're a nerd, right? :D

Well, maybe.... But only on certain things. :)

Right now, for instance, I am finishing a computer build to handle 4K video processing stuff. Now, I don't know anything about IT, how the components of a computer work, or even how the connections to all the components and the case go on the motherboard. Trying to decipher the manuals and watching YouTube takes multiple exposures to get one tiny bit of relevant instruction into my brain. After three weeks, everything is plugged in, connected screwed into position, and hooked into my existing monitor. Last night I pushed the 'power on' button.

No signal to the monitor, even though all sorts of thingies are lit up in the computer case, fans are turning, and I can feel the hard drives doing something. Sigh. So much for nerdiness. I thought it might be fun to build a computer, but now it seems I need to become a computer diagnostician. :eek:

I need a 'real' Nerd :p
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
Well, maybe.... But only on certain things. :)

Right now, for instance, I am finishing a computer build to handle 4K video processing stuff. Now, I don't know anything about IT, how the components of a computer work, or even how the connections to all the components and the case go on the motherboard. Trying to decipher the manuals and watching YouTube takes multiple exposures to get one tiny bit of relevant instruction into my brain. After three weeks, everything is plugged in, connected screwed into position, and hooked into my existing monitor. Last night I pushed the 'power on' button.

No signal to the monitor, even though all sorts of thingies are lit up in the computer case, fans are turning, and I can feel the hard drives doing something. Sigh. So much for nerdiness. I thought it might be fun to build a computer, but now it seems I need to become a computer diagnostician. :eek:

I need a 'real' Nerd :p

You impress me in your writing as persistent! You will find resources to assist you! Good luck and thanks for your advice!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2006) Portugues(2013)
San Salvador (2017) Ingles (2019)
I think it is used to control profuse bleeding? Trouble is, unless you know what you are doing, you could make things worse and the person lose a limb :confused:
So my answer is no, I don't carry one. It can be made up with what you have at hand but regretfully, am not that good at first aid. :(
Well, maybe.... But only on certain things. :)

Right now, for instance, I am finishing a computer build to handle 4K video processing stuff. Now, I don't know anything about IT, how the components of a computer work, or even how the connections to all the components and the case go on the motherboard. Trying to decipher the manuals and watching YouTube takes multiple exposures to get one tiny bit of relevant instruction into my brain. After three weeks, everything is plugged in, connected screwed into position, and hooked into my existing monitor. Last night I pushed the 'power on' button.

No signal to the monitor, even though all sorts of thingies are lit up in the computer case, fans are turning, and I can feel the hard drives doing something. Sigh. So much for nerdiness. I thought it might be fun to build a computer, but now it seems I need to become a computer diagnostician. :eek:

I need a 'real' Nerd :p
apply a tourniquet...
 

Landon Ricketts

Smile, you are alive. You've got options :-)
Camino(s) past & future
Past - May 2018, Future - May 2019
Thank you for these options. Have you used any of them? I have read reviews on a number of them, but was looking for feedback from someone who had used a lite weight model.
Thankfully, no I haven't. Like previous posts I would apply direct pressure to the relevant arterial pressure point to stem the flow, see diagram below. To be perfectly honest with you if you want to prepare for the worst and hope for the best, I would learn where the arterial pressure points are and/or take an advanced first aid course.
Screenshot_20180705-173428_Firefox.jpg
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
Well, maybe.... But only on certain things. :)

Right now, for instance, I am finishing a computer build to handle 4K video processing stuff. Now, I don't know anything about IT, how the components of a computer work, or even how the connections to all the components and the case go on the motherboard. Trying to decipher the manuals and watching YouTube takes multiple exposures to get one tiny bit of relevant instruction into my brain. After three weeks, everything is plugged in, connected screwed into position, and hooked into my existing monitor. Last night I pushed the 'power on' button.

No signal to the monitor, even though all sorts of thingies are lit up in the computer case, fans are turning, and I can feel the hard drives doing something. Sigh. So much for nerdiness. I thought it might be fun to build a computer, but now it seems I need to become a computer diagnostician. :eek:

I need a 'real' Nerd :p

Actually, upon reading this, you're even more or a nerd than I thought! The good kind of nerd, of course.
 
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t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
I recommend against this thread as formal medical advice. If you are so inclined, seek appropriate training from the Red Cross or other suitable local organization.

Everyone here is very well intentioned. Also, the Camino is village to village hiking. While not a walk in the park, neither is it wilderness hiking. 999/1000 a tourniquet will be overkill and wasted weight. Hence my input about field expedient clothing items used in an emergency.

PLEASE do not attempt any of these life saving measures unless you have been trained. Of course, if my leg is hanging by a sinew, and another pilgrim wants to stop me from bleeding out by applying a tourniquet, be it far from me to say not to...o_O I just hope they call 112 immediately thereafter.

I guess I am advocating balance, and prior consideration of the likelihood of needing this trauma first aid, and seeking appropriate training.
 
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sunwanderer

Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to Santiago
Sep/Oct 2015
If you want to be prepared to be able to provide first aid to others, and if you have the proper training, then a tourniquet and a few other lightweight items would not be a problem.

Some of the advice in earlier threads has changed in recent years: Don't use a tourniquet - not true anymore if you have the training; Release every xx minutes - don't release, only someone with advanced medical training should.

Attend a Stop the Bleed training, taught nationwide, mostly by ER & OR physicians, on how to address bleeding. The training is free and only requires one evening. In summary: 1. Pressure, 2. Pressure bandage, 3. Tourniquet (once on, leave it on).

Here's the one that was recommended: Tourniquet.

As mentioned above, it's been used in the OR for 2 hours (my OR MD said that he has used it for 3 hours during knee replacements with no damage).

Clotting Powder: I've carried it in the past, but an ER doc told me to never use it because it is extremely difficult to clean out of the wound. It's better to use one of the 3 options above. I no longer carry it.

A tourniquet is not just for the wilderness or battlefield. We are strongly encouraged to get the training and carry one, and I am in a big city - I keep a tourniquet and pressure bandage in each car. If you have only 1 or 2 minutes to stop the bleeding, the helicopter will arrive too late even if it's one block down the street. And it's difficult to apply a real tourniquet in that amount of time if you haven't practiced, let alone try to come up with a makeshift one.

That's why you need training, and practice, and the real thing.
 
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D

Deleted member 43780

Guest
Members are reminded that using tourniquets on the necks of persistent snorers is actively discouraged in most Albergues...

Good reply! Loved it!

On serious side, as stated above few times: better know when to use one, how to use one and when to make the judgement call the limb is a goner...so the T stays on without releasing blood flow.

A better thing to carry would be Quick Clot. They come in small very light weight packets.
I always have one in my pack or car.

Read here: https://quikclot.com/QuikClot
 

sunwanderer

Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to Santiago
Sep/Oct 2015
Yes, QuickClot is one of the pressure bandages that was recommended for stuffing into a wound. Works most of the time.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF August to September 2016
Warning: not suitable for serious injury!!

My husband sliced the corner of his finger off with a cut throat razor.
Prolonged pressure didn’t stop the bleeding.
I got the cayenne pepper and, having asked his permission, scattered it on the wound.
The effect was instantaneous. It stopped the bleeding dead .... it was very strange to see it happen.

I did have to retrieve him from the ceiling though .....
 

Bob from L.A. !

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francis 2012, 2014, 2016. Camino Norte 2018. Many more to come in my future God willing !
Like everything else on the Camino..."Improvise, adapt and overcome"...
 

AlexanderAZ

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2017 (Sept/Oct): CF: SJPdP-->Fisterra-->Muxia (solo)
2019 (late Sept): CF: SJPdP-->Leon (honeymoon!)
I, sadly, during my CF last fall had need to use a tourniquet for a fellow pilgrim who fell on her head with full weight and pack force on a rock. I was wearing a Buff around my neck, which I tore and stripped to make a tourniquet around her head along with various items to make a bandage. She required emergency extraction and my understanding had surgery. If you are concerned about a tourniquet then get a Buff or prepare to strip whatever clothing you have to suffice.
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Currently on a "Virtual" Camino and striding out across Castile y Leon!
Sir I think you will find that piano string is soooo much better to perform this task than a cotton tourniquet ;)
Electric guitar E string - the one with the little grommit not the ball type so you can thread through Mwa Ha Ha!
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Currently on a "Virtual" Camino and striding out across Castile y Leon!
I, sadly, during my CF last fall had need to use a tourniquet for a fellow pilgrim who fell on her head with full weight and pack force on a rock. I was wearing a Buff around my neck, which I tore and stripped to make a tourniquet around her head along with various items to make a bandage. She required emergency extraction and my understanding had surgery. If you are concerned about a tourniquet then get a Buff or prepare to strip whatever clothing you have to suffice.
I think you might be confusing a tourniquet with a pressure pad. The only way to place a tourniquet on the head would be around the throat in which case I'm not surprised she needed emergency extraction.
Full marks for adding to the Buff repertoire of uses though.
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Currently on a "Virtual" Camino and striding out across Castile y Leon!
Well, maybe.... But only on certain things. :)

Right now, for instance, I am finishing a computer build to handle 4K video processing stuff. Now, I don't know anything about IT, how the components of a computer work, or even how the connections to all the components and the case go on the motherboard. Trying to decipher the manuals and watching YouTube takes multiple exposures to get one tiny bit of relevant instruction into my brain. After three weeks, everything is plugged in, connected screwed into position, and hooked into my existing monitor. Last night I pushed the 'power on' button.

No signal to the monitor, even though all sorts of thingies are lit up in the computer case, fans are turning, and I can feel the hard drives doing something. Sigh. So much for nerdiness. I thought it might be fun to build a computer, but now it seems I need to become a computer diagnostician. :eek:

I need a 'real' Nerd :p
I think you're halfway there Dave - you've learned about thingies, it's only the whatsits and thingummies you have to conquer and you've made it!

Personally I have a guy that lives three doors down from me and his advice: "plug it in, switch it on and if nothing happens call me . . . " always seems the best option.
 
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Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Currently on a "Virtual" Camino and striding out across Castile y Leon!
Was just shutting down computer in order to go for a hike (lovely sunny day in UK) when I spotted these on ebay (thanks to @Landon Ricketts).
If I need a tourniquet can I have the one with the little duckies on it (see revised avatar)?
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
If you want to be prepared to be able to provide first aid to others, and if you have the proper training, then a tourniquet and a few other lightweight items would not be a problem.

Some of the advice in earlier threads has changed in recent years: Don't use a tourniquet - not true anymore if you have the training; Release every xx minutes - don't release, only someone with advanced medical training should.

Attend a Stop the Bleed training, taught nationwide, mostly by ER & OR physicians, on how to address bleeding. The training is free and only requires one evening. In summary: 1. Pressure, 2. Pressure bandage, 3. Tourniquet (once on, leave it on).

Here's the one that was recommended: Tourniquet.

As mentioned above, it's been used in the OR for 2 hours (my OR MD said that he has used it for 3 hours during knee replacements with no damage).

Clotting Powder: I've carried it in the past, but an ER doc told me to never use it because it is extremely difficult to clean out of the wound. It's better to use one of the 3 options above. I no longer carry it.

A tourniquet is not just for the wilderness or battlefield. We are strongly encouraged to get the training and carry one, and I am in a big city - I keep a tourniquet and pressure bandage in each car. If you have only 1 or 2 minutes to stop the bleeding, the helicopter will arrive too late even if it's one block down the street. And it's difficult to apply a real tourniquet in that amount of time if you haven't practiced, let alone try to come up with a makeshift one.

That's why you need training, and practice, and the real thing.


Thank you! I could not agree more with the need to have a tourniquet available! I have had first aid and do know how to apply a tourniquet...but wanted to know abt current recommendations and a light weight one that is effective. The one recommended by the AMERICAN RED CROSS is only 4oz....not too much weight for a life saving device!

Everyone deals with uncomfortable topics differently? Some joke, or use sarcasm or suggest you carry lemons on your head? Me, I have already scheduled a STOP THE BLEED WORKSHOP for next week - workshop is one hour and is free! Always good to update! Given the nature of our world today, having current training to deal with such emergencies is IMO prudent!
 
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t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
I, sadly, during my CF last fall had need to use a tourniquet for a fellow pilgrim who fell on her head with full weight and pack force on a rock. I was wearing a Buff around my neck, which I tore and stripped to make a tourniquet around her head along with various items to make a bandage. She required emergency extraction and my understanding had surgery. If you are concerned about a tourniquet then get a Buff or prepare to strip whatever clothing you have to suffice.

Just curious, and I DO NOT mean to make light of this pilgrim's apparently serious injury, but just HOW does one use a tourniquet for a head wound?

To explain my question's context, I fell over a meter-tall wire fence while on Camino in 2014...I forgot to remove my rucksack before trying to climb over the fence...doh!!

Anyway, the resulting head wound bled like the the dickens. I used a packet of facial tissues and my buff to make a field expedient pressure bandage to stop the bleeding...head wounds ALWAYS bleed a lot. It worked GREAT.

But tying a tourniquet, like around my neck to cut off the circulation to the wound...nah...not a good idea... o_O Of course, I am probably misunderstanding your explanation...

One is just curious.
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
Just curious, and I DO NOT mean to make light of this pilgrim's apparently serious injury, but just HOW does one use a tourniquet for a head wound?

To explain my question's context, I fell over a meter-tall wire fence while on Camino in 2014...I forgot to remove my rucksack before trying to climb over the fence...doh!!

Anyway, the resulting head wound bled like the the dickens. I used a packet of facial tissues and my buff to make a field expedient pressure bandage to stop the bleeding...head wounds ALWAYS bleed a lot. It worked GREAT.

But tying a tourniquet, like around my neck to cut off the circulation to the wound...nah...not a good idea... o_O Of course, I am probably misunderstanding your explanation...

One is just curious.


I think what the response was actually describing was putting pressure to the wound by using multiple kinds of clothing. That is not a tourniquet. One does not want to cut off O2 to the brain!
 

Landon Ricketts

Smile, you are alive. You've got options :-)
Camino(s) past & future
Past - May 2018, Future - May 2019
A little disappointed the Rolseley tourniquet doesn't have a "blood red" colour option . . .
Lolsss very, good :) However the other link, the UK utilty first aid link looks very similar to the one used in the OPs video. If I was going to carry one, that would be the one.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
I think you're halfway there Dave - you've learned about thingies, it's only the whatsits and thingummies you have to conquer and you've made it!

Personally I have a guy that lives three doors down from me and his advice: "plug it in, switch it on and if nothing happens call me . . . " always seems the best option.

And that's sorta what happened :) I went back to do a fresh round of staring at the motherboard, hoping for a clue to become fluorescent orange and shoot flares into the sky so that I would see it. As I was looking, it appeared that there was a significant looking squarish thing with a bunch of holes that was sitting there looking like it needed a plug.

Slap to the forehead time .... it was the power connector for the motherboard :rolleyes: I had the big ribbon-like cable plugged into the motherboard, but I had neglected the smaller power cable. It got plugged to the MB, the AC power cord was plugged back into the computer, I flipped on the power supply switch and hit the computer 'on' button.... everything started up including the video signal to the monitor.

So I learned a tremendously important computer tech lesson: staring works!!! Staring and being patient about how long one needs to stare. Staring is an important tool. That and magnified lenses for glasses or a headpiece. Oh, and a good headlamp cause it's dark inside the case even with the room lit up like a Christmas tree. So... staring, patience, good glasses, and a bright headlamp.

Now all I need to do is figure out why, when the new name-brand monitor is getting the video signal and I try to update the drivers, the monitor reads that I need to be hooked up to the name-brand monitor first.

Time to go stare at the monitor.
 

Landon Ricketts

Smile, you are alive. You've got options :-)
Camino(s) past & future
Past - May 2018, Future - May 2019
Just a thought, whilst staring at the monitor did you notice if there is an 'input' button on the new monitor? you may have to switch it to the different / correct input source.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
Just a thought, whilst staring at the monitor did you notice if there is an 'input' button on the new monitor? you may have to switch it to the different / correct input source.

Thanks, Landon...
Yeah, I did manage to think to do that.. but only because I'm used to switching inputs for my TV. I even tried various cables and various inputs between the computer monitor and the graphics card. I haven't yet tried a tourniquet, although a pressure dressing may be needed if I start banging my head against the wall :)
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
If you are concerned about a tourniquet then get a Buff or prepare to strip whatever clothing you have to suffice.

I was going to mention the buff, too, because it already feels like a tourniquet when I'm just wearing it on my head!

As for life-saving items one might consider carrying, I would think epinephrine in the form of an epi pen would address more emergencies one is likely to encounter than those requiring the use of a tourniquet.

I have twice seen people whose lives may have been saved by a bystander with an epipen on hand. Once was while backpacking in the wilderness, I saw a guy threw a rope over a dead branch in a tree, to break it off for firewood. It released a bee hive and he was swarmed and stung. He was losing the ability to breathe. His friend just happened to have an epipen with him. Another case was in a restaurant, when a patron had a serious allergic reaction to seafood. A staff person had the epipen.
 
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Malachiuri

CaminoTranquilo
Camino(s) past & future
St Jean to Burgos '17
St Jean to Fisterra '18
St Jean to Astorga '20
COVID CAMINO!
Norte '21
Well, Im the guy who wrote the "Calm Down" post and I personally carried a CAT Gen 7 tourniquet on me as well as Celox bleed control pads and a few other things in my pack for emergencies. I have seen some horrific accidents on trails(usually involving folks on bikes) so I took a class at my local EMS station for free to learn to use the right gear to assist till help arrives.

Google "Stop the Bleed" program if you are interested, or go here: https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search

I carry what I am trained to use and comfortable with. You should too.
 
D

Deleted member 67185

Guest
I was going to mention the buff, too, because it already feels like a tourniquet when I'm just wearing it on my head!

As for life-saving items one might consider carrying, I would think epinephrine in the form of an epi pen would address more emergencies one is likely to encounter than those requiring the use of a tourniquet.

I have twice seen people whose lives may have been saved by a bystander with an epipen on hand. Once was while backpacking in the wilderness, I saw a guy threw a rope over a dead branch in a tree, to break it off for firewood. It released a bee hive and he was swarmed and stung. He was losing the ability to breathe. His friend just happened to have an epipen with him. Another case was in a restaurant, when a patron had a serious allergic reaction to seafood. A staff person had the epipen.

A good idea, but at nearly $340.00 I'd have to pass. That, and I believe it is a prescription item available only to those with a documented allergy, like a peanut allergy or an allergy to bees.
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean May/June 2017. Plans to walk Porto 2020
Concerning "epipens", unless one is trained to a higher degree than "just" a basic or senior first aid course I would be most reluctant to both carry and use one on someone I do not know and whose medical history I don't know. Yes those who are asthmatic; have a know alergic reaction to bees/wasps etc should carry one and be able to effectively administer or instruct others in its use.
 

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