Traditional Masses

[Berdiaev]

Hello, I am trying to plan my route for the Spring. However, I only want to attend the Tridentine Mass (or other pre-1962 masses) en route and on arrival. Can someone tell me of a good website which includes mass times? I'm finding it difficult to locate times etc in Santiago. I am walking the south route from Toledo via Orense.

Many Thanks

Rob

PS. I have read that the Mozarabic Rite was being said but has now also been protestantised (ie facing the people, in the vernacular etc etc )

 

[Caminomary525]

How sad... Why would you plan on so limiting the richness of the Camino?

For me, the joy of the Way is the incredible opportunity to move out of my usual niche to experience diversity of experiences, people, ecclesial practice. A cradle Ronan Catholic, the mediation with the Protestants at their albergue in Villamayor des Montejardin is a treasured memory .

 

[LTfit]

Hi Rob and welcome to the forum.

There was a recent thread on masses along the Camino Francés but you are talking about part of the Sureste or Levante and the Sanabrés.

Here is a link to a website (in Spanish) with information on masses in Spain: http://www.misas.org/. This is what you will see at the top of the page (see below).
Fill in the localidad or town, the day and the time. I used this search to help out others find mass along the Francés.

What type of mass is practiced is entirely another question. Someone else will have to help you out with that aspect. Maybe @Rebekah Scott or @JohnnieWalker (currently walking the Plata) ?

Buscador de horarios de misa para España, en iglesias y demás templos donde se celebre la Eucaristía
Buscar misas en la localidad: para un día cualquiera todos laborable víspera festivo a la hora: -- 6h. 7h. 8h. 9h. 10h. 11h. 12h. 13h. 14h. 15h. 16h. 17h. 18h. 19h. 20h. 21h. 22h. 23h. [más opciones]

p.s. I see that the top of the page copied from the website looks different after posting.

 

[andy.d]

Rob

I walked this route from Valencia in 2009. It was almost always possible to find a daily Mass in the evening. I don't remember any being Tridentine.

Andy

 

[SYates]

Unless you are walking with a priest that celebrates in that tradition your chances will be very slim to zero to find a Tridentine Mass on the Camino in Spain, but would be slightly better in France. Best tip I have is to ask your own priest at home for, for you, relevant contacts in Spain. SY

 

[Berdiaev]

Hello - thanks everyone. I know there are traditional masses in Toledo, Salamanca, Orense and Santiago:
http://latinmasses.ca/spain.htm
I myself used this site recently to attend mass in Barcelona, but there doesn't seem to be anything like the LMS that we have here in UK (all times and locations lovingly detailed). If necessary I will go to SSPX masses. Thanks for the help - a great shame about the Mozarabic Rite. It was one of the reasons I wanted to come to Toledo.

Rob

 

[oursonpolaire]

You can catch the Mozarabic rite at the basilica of Saint Isidore in Leon-- I believe twice a week. I missed it by a day when I was last in Leon. I would guess that it be in Castilian, not Latin, but I really have no idea-- I doubt if the priests at St Isidore think that it has been protestantized, but this may be a point of view issue where perspectives might differ. If you email the delegate for liturgy of the Diocese of Leon (luisgarciagutierrez@gmail.com), he can likely clue you in.

On the del Norte in 2011 I ran into a French pilgrim on the ferry to Santona who was greatly frustrated by the absence of Latin masses in Spain-- he had only found one along the whole del Norte, at a monastery where one of the older priests had said a Tridentine mass for him on request. This might be your best bet, aside from contacting the SSPX (http://tradicioncatolica.es/misas-tradicionales-en-latin-en-espana-y-portugal/) directly. From that site, it seems that the older rite is available in Oviedo for pilgrims on the Primitivo, and Salamanca, for those on the de la Plata.

 

[Berdiaev]

You can catch the Mozarabic rite at the basilica of Saint Isidore in Leon-- I believe twice a week. I missed it by a day when I was last in Leon. I would guess that it be in Castilian, not Latin, but I really have no idea-- I doubt if the priests at St Isidore think that it has been protestantized, but this may be a point of view issue where perspectives might differ. If you email the delegate for liturgy of the Diocese of Leon (luisgarciagutierrez@gmail.com), he can likely clue you in.

On the del Norte in 2011 I ran into a French pilgrim on the ferry to Santona who was greatly frustrated by the absence of Latin masses in Spain-- he had only found one along the whole del Norte, at a monastery where one of the older priests had said a Tridentine mass for him on request. This might be your best bet, aside from contacting the SSPX (http://tradicioncatolica.es/misas-tradicionales-en-latin-en-espana-y-portugal/) directly. From that site, it seems that the older rite is available in Oviedo for pilgrims on the Primitivo, and Salamanca, for those on the de la Plata.

Many thanks for this - all good advice. For the Mozarabic I was only going with what it says here, which may be incorrect.

http://latinmasses.ca/spain.htm

Many Thanks

Rob

 

[jmcarp]

We attended a Tridentine Mass in Pamplona before we took the bus up to SJPP. As I recall the time of the Mass was around 10:00-10:30 in the morning. However, we happened to be there on August 15, the Feast of the Assumption, and I don't know if the Tridentine Mass was a special circumstance to celebrate the feast day, or if they do it everyday at that time.
Buen Camino,
Jim

 

[Eiztarigorri]

Although Benedict XVI allowed traditional Trindentine Mas, finding is not an easy thing. The easiest way to get it is going to https://www.fsspx.es/es and ask Tel. [+34] 91 812 28 81. Some times some priests make the Camino de Santiago and can help you.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Saying the Mozarabic Masses have been "protestantized" because of where the priest faces is an odd comment. The Mozarabic Mass back in the day, at least the consecration part, was almost invisible to anyone not up on the altar itself. Which way the priest faced was immaterial.
I've only been to two of these Masses, one at Salamanca cathedral, the other at San Miguel de Escalada, out in the wilds of Leon, for a once-a-year historical thing. They are interesting in a museum-artifact kind of way, and revelatory, too. I am sure God was present at both, and I know what I think doesn't matter a whit.
But my takeaway is: there are good reasons old liturgies pass away, and new ones are adopted!

 

[rappahannock_rev]

You can catch the Mozarabic rite at the basilica of Saint Isidore in Leon-- I believe twice a week. I missed it by a day when I was last in Leon....

Wow! Anyone know if this is accurate?

 

[oursonpolaire]

I had seen it on the Basilica's old website as twice a week, but the new website is not at all informative. On another site, we are told that it is celebrated once a year, on December 18, in the Basilica (and in the cathedral in Pamplona on the same day), so you've missed it by three days. As well, it is celebrated on the annual mass for the "Kings of León, and other special celebrations (for example, for the inauguration of the academic year at the University of León) are usually celebrated with this rite." More can be found here: www.wikiwand.com/es/Liturgia_hisp%C3%A1nica with an awful lot of discussion. Those who want to read about John Paul II's use of the Mozarabic rite (once), and the Cardinal Archbishop's decree on the Mozarabic rite can go here--www.mozarabia.es/liturgia-hispana/ . But in all of this, they won't find the schedule. You can always write to them at: info@sanisidorodeleon.org I am not sure where to obtain a copy of the current (Spanish-language) version of the text-- they might have it.

I have seen the church of San Miguel de Escalada and would think it would be an incredible place for a Mozarabic liturgy. The layout of the apse and sanctuary is very much like a Mediterranean church of over a thousand years ago. The ancient altar is laid out so that the priest will be, for much of the rite, facing the congregation, but fairly invisible to it, so the people likely won't notice it. It will be much like a Byzantine or other Oriental liturgy in this way. So the Protestantizing comment is perhaps just not that well-informed about the specifics-- a mischievous person might note that 21st century battles are often fought on 9c battlegrounds. Gregory Dix' Shape of the Liturgy has many references to the Mozarabic rite, for those who want to get into the details.

I see that four years ago on this thread I suggested that interested folk contact the delegate for liturgy of the Diocese of Leon (luisgarciagutierrez@gmail.com). He's still on the current website and can likely clue you in.

Good luck finding out more.





"

 

[rappahannock_rev]

I'd go waaay out of my way to observe at a Mozarabic Mass! Must look into this!

 

[VNwalking]

I'd go waaay out of my way to observe at a Mozarabic Mass! Must look into this!

There is also The Capilla Mozarabe in Toledo, yes?
If you're flying in or out of Madrid, getting there is within the realm of the imagination, if you had an extra day or so to spare.

 

[jmcarp]

I'm not a cradle Catholic, but have been a member of the Church for more than 50 years. Nevertheless, I must confess that I had never heard of the Mozarabic Rite until its mention in this thread. For others like me who had no prior knowledge, I suggest reading this link: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10611a.htm .

 

[rappahannock_rev]

Took my breath away when I first realized that peregrinos had been walking to Compostela for 250 years before the "new-fangled" Roman Rite burst onto the Iberian scene.

This past May I was genuinely moved by the placards at Old San Juan de la Pena bragging that the first Roman Rite Mass in Aragon had been celebrated there in AD 1071 by command of King Sancho Ramirez. The lower monastic church there is still described as the Mozarabic church..... Alfonso VI quickly thereafter forced the new Rite on an unwilling Castilla y Leon, in AD 1077.....

It had enjoyed a long run.... The Mozarabic Rite had been what San Isidoro de Sevilla (d. AD 636) used in Visigothic times, and it would have been the Rite first used at his basilica in Leon (AD 1063) four hundred years later.... Such worthies as El Cid (d. 1099) and Santo Domingo de la Calzada (d. 1109) would have grown up with the Mozarabic Rite, and been old men when they witnessed its eclipse.

I had no idea that it might still be anywhere in use!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

this transformation figures into the plot of "The Moorish Whore," a camino-y historical adventure set in 11th-century Sahagun...

 

[rappahannock_rev]

this transformation figures into the plot of "The Moorish Whore," a camino-y historical adventure set in 11th-century Sahagun...

Tip appreciated -- too busy to read much fiction -- but how could I not read this?! So I bought it at once! Will have to decide whether to read it now, or wait till I need something to read on my next flight to Madrid.... Seems like every third person who walks the Way these days writes an "I Walked The Way!" memoir.... But there's not too much Camino fiction out there.... Somewhere in my study I've got a novel by (my friend) Sylvia Nilsen, and several by historian Bernard Reilly....

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Tip appreciated -- too busy to read much fiction -- but how could I not read this?! So I bought it at once! Will have to decide whether to read it now, or wait till I need something to read on my next flight to Madrid.... Seems like every third person who walks the Way these days writes an "I Walked The Way!" memoir.... But there's not too much Camino fiction out there.... Somewhere in my study I've got a novel by (my friend) Sylvia Nilsen, and several by historian Bernard Reilly....

I wrote this novel. Just so you know. Let us know what you think. (it is based on a true story!)