Trail Runners for Custom Orthotics

[Stephan the Painter]

I am having some custom orthotics made, and then looking for some trail runners for my upcoming Camino.

The assistant to the podiatrist said I should get shoes that have removable arch supports, so they don't interfere with the new orthotics. Most shoes nowadays have either permanent or removable inserts.

I'll ask the podiatrist at the appointment, but wonder if anyone here has suggestions for particular brand/model trail runners that are good for orthotics? I have both flat feet and arthritic problems with my large toe joints.
Thank you.

 

[C clearly]

As far as I can tell, almost any normal brand-name, decent quality running shoe has removable inserts and is suitable.

 

[J Willhaus]

My husband had orthotics made a few years ago and they did not fit in very many of his shoes. As a result, he did not wear them much and did not take them at all on his last Camino. I recommend you take them with you to the store to make sure they will fit even if the inserts do come out.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

As far as I can tell, almost any normal brand-name, decent quality running shoe has removable inserts and is suitable.

I think I saw in other threads I looked at that you also wear orthotics? I've never bought trail runners before, so I wasn't sure if they are glued in or removable? Probably the shoe store will not be happy if I start tearing out the innards...

 

[Stephan the Painter]

My husband had orthotics made a few years ago and they did not fit in very many of his shoes. As a result, he did not wear them much and did not take them at all on his last Camino. I recommend you take them with you to the store to make sure they will fit even if the inserts do come out.

Definitely! The podiatrist said he would work with me and potentially even modify the orthotics afterwards. Seems to be a real pro. Of course they cost $400....

 

[J Willhaus]

Yes, I am just saying that even if the soles come out, they may not fit in your shoe of choice so take them to the store. My husband finally has found "the shoes" for him which we now buy several pairs of a time to keep in the closet in case they stop making them. (Heaven help us when that day comes...) He does not wear the orthotics in these magical shoes, but they are more comfortable than any shoe he has with or without the orthotics.

 

[SabsP]

Never had problems finding ( walking ) shoes with removable inserts.
Health insurance covers new ones for me every two years.

Pes cavus and hallux valgus ! Aka high arch and bunion.Great combo.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Never had problems finding ( walking ) shoes with removable inserts.
Health insurance covers new ones for me every two years.

Pes cavus and hallux valgus ! Aha high arch and bunion.Great combo.

Good to know. Wish my health insurance would cover them, I checked.

 

[davebugg]

There is no difference in buying a trail runner with or without orthotics. The insoles are able to be removed. The key is to know why you need the orthotics so that you can avoid buying a shoe that is designed to control that same issue.

For example, if the orthotic is designed to control pronation or supination, you do not want a shoe that is designed to deal with over-pronation or supination as that would interfere with the effectiveness of the orthotic and even create significant problems to your ankle supporting structures.

In general, look for a shoe that is 'neutral' for motion control. Each brand of shoe will identify what models are 'neutral'. Brooks, Hoka, and New Balance are notable, but most major brands will also identify motion control features.

I would not limit selections to just trail runners if this is only for Camino use. Regular running shoes have some great candidates for a Camino walker.

Next, use the guideline below when shopping for shoes, making note of the tip to bring your orthotic and use it when trying on shoes. An orthotic can take up volume inside the shoe and also affect the 'spread' of the foot, requiring adjustments in size. Buy according to fit and feel, not to a tool-measurement size.

----------------------------------

As you go looking for shoe, here are some tips which I have posted before that may help you.

1. When you go to the store, do so toward the end of the day.... you will have been up on your feet, so that will help with getting the correct fit. Additionally, you will need to wear the same backpack with the same gear you will be carrying... you want this additional weight on you as this will put the same downward pressure on the foot that you will be having while on Camino.
2. Wear the exact same sock(s) you will be wearing while you are walking on the Camino. And if you have a special insole or orthotic, bring it with you.
3. At the store, the measuring that will be done on your feet is only to get you in the ballpark for the correct shoe size.
4. Start by standing up; never measure while sitting. You want the full weight of your body, with the pack on, to put the same pressure on your feet to spread them out as will happen while walking. That alone will increase the volume and size of your feet.
5. Make sure those 'Camino' socks are on your feet; if you wear socks with liners while walking, do the same thing at the store.
6. While standing, have someone near to you that you can use to steady yourself. With the measuring device on the ground, step onto the instrument and center all of your weight onto the foot being measured. Do the same for the other foot.
7. Start with that size, but be aware that both the width and the length need to feel like there is adequate room for your feet. Ideally, like Goldilocks, everything will be just right. But, don't count on it. Be picky.
8. If you have special insoles or orthotics, put them into any shoe you try on as they will take up space inside the shoe.
9. When you find what you think will fit you well, you will need to see if your toes have enough clearance. Toes should not be able to be forced to the front of the shoe and touch the shoe. Not even a little. If they do, long walking and downhill grades on the trail or path or road will traumatize the bed of the nail, and that is when toenails can blacken and fall off.
10. With your shoes tied securely, but not too tight, walk around the store with your pack on. Go up stairs and down stairs, scuff the shoes to the floor so that your feet are forced to do any movement they will do and see if your toes so much as butterfly kiss the front of the shoe. Kick the front of the shoe into a post or stair or wall or someone's shin.... does that make any of your toes touch the front of the shoe? That goes for all the little piggies.
11. Next, pay attention to the width of the shoe. It shouldn't feel snug on the sides and there should be no rubbing or pressure points at all. They will not go away with "break in". They will create soreness, pain, and blistering. Even if it seems to be tolerable, it is like water torture; as your feet are continually exposed to those pressure points your feet will break down against them bit by bit, and bruising, blisters, and soreness will follow.
12. You may need to go up from only 1/2 size to 2+ sizes in length, and go with a much wider width to avoid those things I mentioned above.
13. Ignore measuring devices, the size labels on the shoe boxes, and the sizes of your other shoes; your only concern is how this new pair of footwear fits and feel.

 

[C clearly]

I've never bought trail runners before, so I wasn't sure if they are glued in or removable? Probably the shoe store will not be happy if I start tearing out the innards...

I don't think I have ever asked to try on a shoe where the inserts turned out to be not removable. But they probably exist, so I wouldn't rip them out with force! Of course, I'm talking about sports shoes, not dress shoes. Orthotics are extremely common these days, and people in shoe stores deal with them daily. Anyone in a sports store should know which shoes are neutral, as @davebugg explains above.

Yes I wear orthotics and am surprised at how important they are to me now, and worth the cost. But be sure to return to your podiatrist for follow-up adjustments (e.g. metatarsal pads) to take full advantage of the cost and the potential benefits. You should have free adjustments for a period of time. It is somewhat a trial-and-error process so you should not assume that the first fitting is supposed to be the final. You will probably need to test each adjustment for a couple of weeks.

I suppose there could be some conditions that result in orthotics that are not so easy to fit into a shoe (even a sports shoe), and maybe a half-size extra would be needed, although in theory the size isn't supported to change. If your arch is lifted, then maybe some extra volume/height is needed but the width could be less because the foot spreads less.

The orthotic is part of the shoe-foot system! So, you would always need to insert them before you try on a shoe.

I expect that orthotics are over-prescribed. It is impossible to know if they will make a difference until you try them for a period. Would the pain have healed anyway? Over the years I have 2 or 3 times had a pain for months that finally disappeared within weeks after an adjustment to my orthotics. I was skeptical to start, and probably would not have tried them if I had to pay full cost. But I am glad I did.

 

[Anamiri]

My husband had orthotics made a few years ago and they did not fit in very many of his shoes. As a result, he did not wear them much and did not take them at all on his last Camino. I recommend you take them with you to the store to make sure they will fit even if the inserts do come out.

The process often involves several suppliers. Usually the podiatrist takes a mould of your foot, and sends that and instructions to a company/person who actually makes the orthotics. That person doesn't see you, the way you walk or your shoe.
When the podiatrist gets the orthotic back and calls you in, be prepared to insist that they trim the orthotic down until it fits the shoe properly. This is something they can do while you are there, doesn't take that long. I have found that the orthotic almost never fits the shoe until they have adjusted it quite a lot. By that I mean that the orthotic literally could not be placed flat in the shoe.
I have known people who just bought larger shoes, but having 40mm of excess shoe in front of your toes, is not helpful, your foot slides around, and it doesn't allow the shoe to be walked in the way it was designed.
They might complain that it will ruin the integrity of the orthotic, and you will explain patiently that an orthotic that cant be put in a shoe is pointless.
I have this argument each time, and eventually win . You may otherwise have an expensive orthotic that is never used - which negates the 'integrity statement'. (I have had at least 3 lots of orthotics that cant be used). Its a discussion to have with your podiatrist as I'm sure they want it to be successful for you.
The trimmed orthotic may not last as long, but I get about 2.5 - 3 years from mine, so I'm happy with that as they improve my walking experience.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I expect that orthotics are over-prescribed. It is impossible to know if they will make a difference until you try them for a period.

Preferably for a really long distance for a few days running.

I used my new orthotics with new walking shoes for some fairly decently long hikes during the summer with no problems. On my autumn camino on day five my left knee gave out many times and I even dropped to the ground three times. I wadded up some paper and placed it under my arch. Only slight problems the next day and none after that (except with my foot in a higher position I had to change the lacing pattern on my left shoe to be comfortable).

 

[peregrina2000]

Good to know. Wish my health insurance would cover them, I checked.

You have probably already figured this out, but it messed me up so badly years ago that I thought I would tell you my experience in case it helps.

My doctor ordered silicone orthotics for me after I developed tarsal tunnel on the camino, which he attributed to the very bad combination of my wearing hard plastic orthotics as they pounded into the pavement. I had worn those plastic orthotics for years, and my insurance covered them. When I submitted the claim for the silicone orthotics, I was surprised to get a denial of benefits. How could plastic orthotics be covered and silicone orthotics not covered?

Here’s what I learned after a lot of back and forths with insurance and the provider. It’s all about the coding. The silicone orthotics are coded as “durable medical equipment,” whereas the plastic orthotics are listed as something else. And my insurance would only covere DME for cases of artificial limbs, not orthotics. That seemed so bizarre to me that I filed an appeal, focusing on the logic that I needed an orthotic, orthotics are covered in my policy, and the fact that the ones I now need are silicone should make no difference in the coverage. And I won! Not once but twice!

Now that I’m on Medicare, there’s no possibility of winning any sort of appeal so I am hoping my silicone orthotics get me through a few more caminos.

In any case, if by chance the denial you got is based on the coding of the particular orthotic you need, you might be able to make your case for coverage. But if all orthotics are excluded from your policy, this longwinded explanation will be of no use to you!

 

[4sallypat]

I am having some custom orthotics made, and then looking for some trail runners for my upcoming Camino.

The assistant to the podiatrist said I should get shoes that have removable arch supports, so they don't interfere with the new orthotics. Most shoes nowadays have either permanent or removable inserts.

I'll ask the podiatrist at the appointment, but wonder if anyone here has suggestions for particular brand/model trail runners that are good for orthotics? I have both flat feet and arthritic problems with my large toe joints.
Thank you.

FOLLOWING:
This is a good post!
I forgot about how important orthotics are - especially looking at doing a first time camino this fall...

Are there any good brands to choose or are they all podiatrist secret brands ?

I remember I had ski boot orthotics made over 30 years ago and those cork inserts were perfect to flatten the skis to the surface!

Now I have to find a podiatrist.

 

[davebugg]

FOLLOWING:
This is a good post!
I forgot about how important orthotics are - especially looking at doing a first time camino this fall...

Are there any good brands to choose or are they all podiatrist secret brands ?

I remember I had ski boot orthotics made over 30 years ago and those cork inserts were perfect to flatten the skis to the surface!

Now I have to find a podiatrist.

This an earlier post I had written regarding terminology as it applies to such things as inserts and orthotics to help distinguish their differences when considering buying one or the other.

---------------------
Insoles, arch supports and inserts are pretty much the same thing as a category. You can usually find them over the counter at retailers from big box stores to athletic shops to outdoor recreation stores like REI. They are all over online shopping sites as well.

They provide additional cushioning and may also offer some level of minor support in your shoes, replacing the insole that came with the shoe.. Because the material is often soft and deforms easily, even if contains some plastics, replacing them about every 4 to 6 months, at most, is a good idea. Beyond that and their functionality decreases.

Orthotics are found in shops that are specialized or at medical offices. What has happened is that the term “orthotic” has been adopted as a generic term, like kleenix or windex.

An orthotic is a firm support. It is primarily made from some type of plastic material where the arch of your foot is located. They are meant to provide some distinct level of arch support in order to reduce the risk of further structural damage of injury to the feet while walking or running.

As a result, orthotics tend to be custom made and cannot be pre-made or manufactured then placed on a store shelf waiting for a buyer. Your foot must to be evaluated, and that evaluation determines what and which type of orthotic you need. A mold is made of the foot/feet, the mold is then modified to deal with the foot's specific structural issue(s), and then the orthotic is fabricated (off site or on site) to precisely match that foot and its needed correction. Orthotics do not usually deform; therefore, they do not have to be replaced as often as over-the-counter insoles.

Superfeet models, even though they have a plastic component, for example, are NOT orthotics. Neither are Dr. Scholls products, or gel inserts, or silicone stuff that slips into a shoe. The same applies to heat molded insole products.

Some other personal observations:

Hybrid Inserts Into the mix comes a type of hybrid approach: specialty shops which are stand-alone, retail locations that one can pop into and have a mold taken, and a shoe insert produced.

The inserts produced are meant to act in the same manner as an orthotic, and many of these shops do indeed refer to their product as an orthotic insert. The problem is, that the need for a physical exam and assessment has often been replaced with a robotic algorithm which attempts to deduce problems based on a foot's shape, and visualized pressure points. As such, the shoe inserts that are produced may not solve the problem at all, and the customer later ends up still needing to visit a medical professional, costing even more money.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

@davebugg @peregrina2000 @Rick of Rick and Peg @Anamiri @C clearly @SabineP
@J Willhaus

Thank you so much for the valuable and thoughtful advice!

I think I’m in a much better position to choose correctly. I’m going to double check with my insurance company, and probably make my local shoe salesman life miserable for a couple hours. Luckily there is a specialty running and hiking shoe shop about 45 minutes away, with quite a deep inventory.

I’ve been wearing orthotics all my life. Sometimes from a podiatrist, but often just off-the-shelf insoles. But in the last couple years, unfortunately, although I’m only in my 50s, I’ve started to have increasing problems with arthritis.

I have flat feet and arthritis in the toe joints. I actually just had an operation to correct one toe, but the other toe joint is still an issue. I’m a little worried, but I hope with the right shoes and the help of of orthotics, the pain will be manageable

I talked to several podiatrists about this, and it’s a mixed bag about whether they help or not. Certainly they help some people, but not everybody. They always made my feet more comfortable, but I’ve never sought out orthotics to reduce pain. It’s worth a try for me.

Anyway, I’m going to walk the Camino either way this year, even if it is painful part of the time. After all, I’ve been putting this off for 25 years now! And if other pilgrims can do it in crutches or a wheelchair, I think I can suffer through a bit of pain. (And maybe with a bit of luck, there won’t be much pain).

 

[davebugg]

@davebugg @peregrina2000 @Rick of Rick and Peg @Anamiri @C clearly @SabineP
@J Willhaus

Thank you so much for the valuable and thoughtful advice!

I think I’m in a much better position to choose correctly. I’m going to double check with my insurance company, and probably make my local shoe salesman life miserable for a couple hours. Luckily there is a specialty running and hiking shoe shop about 45 minutes away, with quite a deep inventory.

I’ve been wearing orthotics all my life. Sometimes from a podiatrist, but often just off-the-shelf insoles. But in the last couple years, unfortunately, although I’m only in my 50s, I’ve started to have increasing problems with arthritis.

I have flat feet and arthritis in the toe joints. I actually just had an operation to correct one toe, but the other toe joint is still an issue. I’m a little worried, but I hope with the right shoes and the help of of orthotics, the pain will be manageable

I talked to several podiatrists about this, and it’s a mixed bag about whether they help or not. Certainly they help some people, but not everybody. They always made my feet more comfortable, but I’ve never sought out orthotics to reduce pain. It’s worth a try for me.

Anyway, I’m going to walk the Camino either way this year, even if it is painful part of the time. After all, I’ve been putting this off for 25 years now! And if other pilgrims can do it in crutches or a wheelchair, I think I can suffer through a bit of pain. (And maybe with a bit of luck, there won’t be much pain).

It is hard to hear about health issues that make life difficult, but i applaud your spirit and dedication to pursuing you goals and dreams. When choosing shoes, be patient and be picky. It may be worthwhile to seek out a podiatrist who specializes in sports and athletes, if you haven't already.

 

[Terrri]

I have been wearing custom orthotics for a number of years now. When you order them make sure they are sized up half a size rather than an exact fit. I have been buying my shoes a half size larger (especially on the camino) and have never needed to trim the orthotics. Of course I only buy shoes with removable insoles.
A friend had her podiatrist trim her orthotics to fit shoes she bought then of course when she needed to buy new shoes she couldn't find them again and her orthotics never seemed to fit other shoes as well and she had constant issues.
And of course bring your orthotics with you when you try on shoes. And the proper socks.

 

[Anamiri]

I have both flat feet and arthritic problems with my large toe joints.

I sympathize with the big toe joint problem, that is my problem as well, although I have very high arched feet.
I have seen several different podiatrists, and there seem to be some different ideas about how to correct this issue. One involved a higher pad under the toe, (that didnt work and made it worse, and my wallet $500 lighter), another involved a rigid piece under the toe joint - that was another $500, but it did work.
So when you decide on a podiatrist have a good talk about the options, (I found they were in either one camp or the other, but it was a sample of only 3), as it is a slow and costly process, and ideally it would be good to get the right option for you first time .
I was told by a specialist that podiatry was an art rather than a science, which my podiatrist found offensive.
But the good new was that eventually my orthotic was successful and I walked my last Camino without pain. And I walked in sandals, my orthotic fit in them well.

 

[Albertagirl]

The orthotics which I got made after my knee replacement surgery were made by both science and art. Plaster molds were made of my feet, dunking them in plaster which dried to shape. This was a two stage process, as the footbath produced the molds into which plaster was poured to make models of my feet. The orthotics were shaped to fit these plaster molds. At least, this is how I understand it. The orthotics were made by a company which makes prosthetics for persons lacking various body parts, as well as orthotics. They cost about $550 dollars and fitted my boots perfectly. I was told that I could trim the edges to fit other footwear if I wished, after last year's camino walk. I chose not to do so and am now looking for a suitable boot in the same brand and size to go with the orthotics. The boots with my made-to-measure orthotics were perfectly comfortable when walking the Levante. I wore out those boots on camino trails. In case I should need new orthotics, I can get them made to fit my plaster molds, which I was given to keep. A new pair would be cheaper, with the first stage already on hand. I am looking for new boots in the same brand and size to fit the orthotics. The original orthotics look to have many camino kilometres still in them.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I sympathize with the big toe joint problem, that is my problem as well, although I have very high arched feet.
I have seen several different podiatrists, and there seem to be some different ideas about how to correct this issue. One involved a higher pad under the toe, (that didnt work and made it worse, and my wallet $500 lighter), another involved a rigid piece under the toe joint - that was another $500, but it did work.
So when you decide on a podiatrist have a good talk about the options, (I found they were in either one camp or the other, but it was a sample of only 3), as it is a slow and costly process, and ideally it would be good to get the right option for you first time .
I was told by a specialist that podiatry was an art rather than a science, which my podiatrist found offensive.
But the good new was that eventually my orthotic was successful and I walked my last Camino without pain. And I walked in sandals, my orthotic fit in them well.

Great advice. I think that the plan is to put a rigid piece under the toe joint. Possibly Carbon fiber. I have been wearing podiatrist supplied insoles for the last few years, and my podiatrist tried to stiffen the area underneath the toes with a kind of rigid padding. It helped a little bit.

I live fairly rural (Maine, USA), and there’s actually only one choice for a podiatrist who makes orthotics. He travels all over the state to various practices. There might be other choices if I’m willing to travel far enough, but there’s no way for me to know if those are better practitioners or not.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

The orthotics which I got made after my knee replacement surgery were made by both science and art. Plaster molds were made of my feet, dunking them in plaster which dried to shape. This was a two stage process, as the footbath produced the molds into which plaster was poured to make models of my feet. The orthotics were shaped to fit these plaster molds. At least, this is how I understand it. The orthotics were made by a company which makes prosthetics for persons lacking various body parts, as well as orthotics. They cost about $550 dollars and fitted my boots perfectly. I was told that I could trim the edges to fit other footwear if I wished, after last year's camino walk. I chose not to do so and am now looking for a suitable boot in the same brand and size to go with the orthotics. The boots with my made-to-measure orthotics were perfectly comfortable when walking the Levante. I wore out those boots on camino trails. In case I should need new orthotics, I can get them made to fit my plaster molds, which I was given to keep. A new pair would be cheaper, with the first stage already on hand. I am looking for new boots in the same brand and size to fit the orthotics. The original orthotics look to have many camino kilometres still in them.

I hadn’t thought about that I would have multiple orthotics for multiple shoes. I’ve actually had three different pairs of custom orthotics made in my life, and I just used them with all the different shoes. It was never discussed that I might need to trim them down or anything. It’s been about 15 years though. Great information, thank you

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I have been wearing custom orthotics for a number of years now. When you order them make sure they are sized up half a size rather than an exact fit. I have been buying my shoes a half size larger (especially on the camino) and have never needed to trim the orthotics. Of course I only buy shoes with removable insoles.
A friend had her podiatrist trim her orthotics to fit shoes she bought then of course when she needed to buy new shoes she couldn't find them again and her orthotics never seemed to fit other shoes as well and she had constant issues.
And of course bring your orthotics with you when you try on shoes. And the proper socks.

Are you suggesting that the orthotics need to be a half a size up? To compensate for swelling? Or do I misunderstand and you mean the shoes?

 

[Stephan the Painter]

It is hard to hear about health issues that make life difficult, but i applaud your spirit and dedication to pursuing you goals and dreams. When choosing shoes, be patient and be picky. It may be worthwhile to seek out a podiatrist who specializes in sports and athletes, if you haven't already.

Thank you, and good advice here and especially earlier the details about choosing shoes that don’t by design interfere with my orthotics.

It’s probably to little late to change podiatrist for this camino. In Maine, where I live, a specialist like that is usually booked two or three months out (even if I have a choice through my insurance provider).

And also thanks for the sympathy, but I think my health issues might sound a little worse than they are. Although I haven’t hiked much more than a 4 or 5 miles in the last couple years. So I’ll find out. I’ll try some longer stretches when I have the orthotics and the loaded backpack. If there is pain, maybe I can still do something about it before I go.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Regarding getting boots that will work with orthotics you may want to have the boots custom made. Limmers in New Hampshire has made boots for decades and could probably make one that fits both your feet and orthotic. The downsides that I know of are
1) Getting there for a fitting (not so bad for Stephan).
2) Cost
3) Wait time
4) They are heavy

Limmer Boots

At Peter Limmer & Sons and Limmer Boot Company, we create and provide hand crafted boots known to last for 20-40 years. Made from the highest quality materials and a true "single piece" leather upper, our Limmer Custom Boots, Limmer Boots, and Boot Repair service are the most sustainable leather...

limmerboots.com

 

[jiggy]

I am having some custom orthotics made, and then looking for some trail runners for my upcoming Camino.

The assistant to the podiatrist said I should get shoes that have removable arch supports, so they don't interfere with the new orthotics. Most shoes nowadays have either permanent or removable inserts.

I'll ask the podiatrist at the appointment, but wonder if anyone here has suggestions for particular brand/model trail runners that are good for orthotics? I have both flat feet and arthritic problems with my large toe joints.
Thank you.

I just bought Altra trail running shoes from REI. They are light and comfortable. I have very high arches and these really have great support.

 

[boski]

I am having some custom orthotics made, and then looking for some trail runners for my upcoming Camino.

The assistant to the podiatrist said I should get shoes that have removable arch supports, so they don't interfere with the new orthotics. Most shoes nowadays have either permanent or removable inserts.

I'll ask the podiatrist at the appointment, but wonder if anyone here has suggestions for particular brand/model trail runners that are good for orthotics? I have both flat feet and arthritic problems with my large toe joints.
Thank you.

After you get your inserts go to REI or the Good feet store. They will help you make the best decision for your situation. REI will even let you return your shoes after you have worn them if they dont work out for you.

 

[JamesVT]

I am having some custom orthotics made, and then looking for some trail runners for my upcoming Camino.

The assistant to the podiatrist said I should get shoes that have removable arch supports, so they don't interfere with the new orthotics. Most shoes nowadays have either permanent or removable inserts.

I'll ask the podiatrist at the appointment, but wonder if anyone here has suggestions for particular brand/model trail runners that are good for orthotics? I have both flat feet and arthritic problems with my large toe joints.
Thank you.

A couple of thoughts— the insoles in trail runners are pretty much never glued in the shoe. Or, if they are, the glue is minimal and the insole can be safely pulled out and replaced in the store. Yes, try on shoes with your orthotics and follow all the good advice from Dave Bugg. Do remember to go up at least one size above normal to compensate for foot swell while walking. I probably tried on 20 different shoes in various sizes to find the sweet spot, shoes that felt really good and comfortable on my feet. They were a size and a half larger than normal. Finally, spend time on picking out really good socks. I went with Darn Tough merino wool socks. Good luck!

 

[Albertagirl]

It was never discussed that I might need to trim them down or anything. It’s been about 15 years though.

My current orthotics are softer than the hard plastic orthotics which I had in the past and I don't know if the older type of orthotic could be trimmed. I wouldn't trim my newer ones now unless I had spoken to the place which made them and possibly requested that they do the trimming. As for up-sizing your footwear a size or half a size, I tried that once (half a size) and had to give the boots away because they were too loose. If you are accustomed to walking long distances, your usual footwear size for that purpose should work for you. You don't want to have to try to adjust your footwear or buy new ones when you are already on camino.

 

[Walsh Camino]

I have been using custom orthotics for 35 years in place of the insoles that can be removed from most trail runners. My orthotics have always been half soles and so the forward foot bed needs cushioning after the factory insert is removed. My podiatrist recommended add a SPENCO RX insole for a cushioning layer. SPENCO says it can cover over the orthotic, but I have always used it under the orthotic as my podiatrist advised. They are inexpensive ($15) and will likely outlast your trail runner.

 

[Terrri]

Are you suggesting that the orthotics need to be a half a size up? To compensate for swelling? Or do I misunderstand and you mean the shoes?

I bought my orthotics a half size larger with the intention of probably having to trim them down and because they were originally bought for the camino boots I had which were larger. Nothing as irritating (physically) as feeling the slight edge of the insoles in your shoes. I don't find my feet swell much larger than a half size, but everyone's experience is different.
When I was shopping recently I noticed that the manufacturers are putting in better insoles but for me that doesn't mean much. There is also the option to have shoes with really good insoles and having the ability to swap them out as needed.
I did use Superfeet (green) for one camino and realized that they were too stiff for my feet on hard surfaces.
Only your feet can tell you what is best for you.
Are you set on trail runners? We are also in a small town so not a lot of shopping options. Also because of the current world situations so many sizes aren't available even in larger towns.

 

[JamesVT]

Regarding getting boots that will work with orthotics you may want to have the boots custom made. Limmers in New Hampshire has made boots for decades and could probably make one that fits both your feet and orthotic. The downsides that I know of are
1) Getting there for a fitting (not so bad for Stephan).
2) Cost
3) Wait time
4) They are heavy

Limmer Boots

At Peter Limmer & Sons and Limmer Boot Company, we create and provide hand crafted boots known to last for 20-40 years. Made from the highest quality materials and a true "single piece" leather upper, our Limmer Custom Boots, Limmer Boots, and Boot Repair service are the most sustainable leather...

limmerboots.com

I’ve done lots of hiking in heavy boots. Not a good choice for the Camino. Lighter is better.

 

[GIJoe]

I am having some custom orthotics made, and then looking for some trail runners for my upcoming Camino.

The assistant to the podiatrist said I should get shoes that have removable arch supports, so they don't interfere with the new orthotics. Most shoes nowadays have either permanent or removable inserts.

I'll ask the podiatrist at the appointment, but wonder if anyone here has suggestions for particular brand/model trail runners that are good for orthotics? I have both flat feet and arthritic problems with my large toe joints.
Thank you.

I have both Brooks Cascadia and Altra Lone Peak 5 which do well with my orthotics for walks and hikes.

 

[C clearly]

I think there is a lot of overthinking going on here!

There may be more complicated cases, but my experience is this:

1. You get orthotics custom made to put in shoes instead of the ones that come from the manufacturer.
2. The podiatrist checks that the orthotic fits appropriately in your shoes. They might need to trim the orthotic a bit.
3. You test the orthotic for a few weeks, in consultation with the podiatrist, to see if your problem is resolved. If not, adjustments and advice will be offered.
4. For new shoes, you shop the same as always - replacing the inner sole each time you try a new pair. You might find a size larger than before is better, but that depends on how roomy your previous shoes were.
5. If the orthotic doesn't fit in the candidate new shoe, the foot probably won't fit ideally either!
6. All the fitting considerations and type choices are exactly the same as for people without custom orthotics.

 

[CA_Pilgrim]

The assistant to the podiatrist said I should get shoes that have removable arch supports, so they don't interfere with the new orthotics.

I don't have about 10 years experience with orthotics in trail runners, but I do with regular running shoes as well hiking shoes/boots. I agree very much with what you podiatrist assistant recommended. The inserts in shoes are designed to both cushion and to provide arch support. It's the arch support function the interferes with orthotics. When you have you feet casted to mold the orthotics, they use the cast to build an orthotic that is custom made to the shape and height of your arch. They need to lie flat in the shoe to work properly.

However when you pull out the insert, it leaves no cushioning for the rest of your foot. The solution is to replace the orthotic with an insert that lies flat and provides good cushioning. For years I used the Dr. Scholes Air Pillow Inserts for this purpose, usually layering two on top of each other. Recently, I came across a memory foam insert that works much better. Unfortunately, I have only found them in one size, but they can be trimmed to fit your shoe. I find it necessary to go a shoe size larger than I measure to allow extra space for this extra cushioning (they are thicker than the typical shoe insert). I've put about 700 miles on my current pair and they are still working well.

Here's the link to them on AMAZON: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08VYLVWZT/?tag=casaivar02-20

 

[JamesVT]

I think there is a lot of overthinking going on here!

There may be more complicated cases, but my experience is this:

1. You get orthotics custom made to put in shoes instead of the ones that come from the manufacturer.
2. The podiatrist checks that the orthotic fits appropriately in your shoes. They might need to trim the orthotic a bit.
3. You test the orthotic for a few weeks, in consultation with the podiatrist, to see if your problem is resolved. If not, adjustments and advice will be offered.
4. For new shoes, you shop the same as always - replacing the inner sole each time you try a new pair. You might find a size larger than before is better, but that depends on how roomy your previous shoes were.
5. If the orthotic doesn't fit in the candidate new shoe, the foot probably won't fit ideally either!
6. All the fitting considerations and type choices are exactly the same as for people without custom orthotics.

I have had custom made orthotics (ghastly expensive), and they solved my crippling foot problems. Along the way, one of my podiatrists gave me as a temporary fix, some white, semi-hard foam orthotics that I have bought more of and used for years in all my shoes. They cost about $25 for a pair and in some cases may help others with foot problems. I expect most podiatrists would be familiar with these inexpensive orthotics and may be willing to provide them. The convenience of having multiple orthotics is great-- I don't have to keep switching between shoes.

 

[Chris Gi]

I think I saw in other threads I looked at that you also wear orthotics? I've never bought trail runners before, so I wasn't sure if they are glued in or removable? Probably the shoe store will not be happy if I start tearing out the innards...

They are not glue in. Reputable stores such as REI here in the USA will actually take out the original insert for you and make sure your orthotic fits correctly.

 

[psgerboc]

I think I saw in other threads I looked at that you also wear orthotics? I've never bought trail runners before, so I wasn't sure if they are glued in or removable? Probably the shoe store will not be happy if I start tearing out the innards...

The store allowed me to take out the inserts and try my orthotics. In fact they insisted on it.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I have had custom made orthotics (ghastly expensive), and they solved my crippling foot problems. Along the way, one of my podiatrists gave me as a temporary fix, some white, semi-hard foam orthotics that I have bought more of and used for years in all my shoes. They cost about $25 for a pair and in some cases may help others with foot problems. I expect most podiatrists would be familiar with these inexpensive orthotics and may be willing to provide them. The convenience of having multiple orthotics is great-- I don't have to keep switching between shoes.

I also already use some over the counter Orthotics supplied by my podiatrist. He wasn't actually convinced that the custom ones were necessary. He suggested the biggest difference was in how long they last. At least for flat feet.
But that was before the arthritiis became evident. I'll find out.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I think there is a lot of overthinking going on here!

I think you may be right. My original question is answered. Most higher end trail or running shoes have removable insoles, so fitting orthotics is no problem.