Transport off the Meseta to Leon (escape route)

[Valv]

Hi,

We are starting another 'stage' of our personal Camino Frances in Roncevalles about September 8th. We have planned the walk to Burgos. However, we do not want to walk the full distance from Burgos to Leon, but perhaps walk a couple of days to 'sample' the meseta. Is there some point along the meseta where we can easily 'bail-out' and continue onto Leon with public transport? From Leon we plan to restart at Virgen del Camino and rewalk part of the route we walked in 2014 until we run out of time and have to return to Madrid for our flight home to Perth, Australia.

 

[Robo]

I guess the obvious question is, why bail-out on the Meseta merely to walk a section you have walked before?

I'm not sure why some people avoid it....

I would certainly try to walk as far as Fromista. You'll see some of the best parts of the Meseta. I think Fromista has a train station and would certainly have buses. Fromista to Carrion is just a roadside track......
From there, other than one section, Carrion to Terradillos, it's mainly roadside track I think all the way to Leon.

I'm never quite sure 'technically' where the Meseta ends, but as far as Fromista is certainly worth walking.

Fromista to Leon, is mainly Senda next to the highway. An interesting challenge after the remoteness of the earlier stages. Though Carrion to Terradillos includes that 'infamous' 17 km stretch with no water. It's actually a nice walk along an old Roman road. (covered with fine gravel) And in 2015 at least there was a cafe/caravan....about halfway.

 

[whariwharangi]

Castrojerez has Amaya bus back to Burgos in AM forward to Fromista in PM.

Fromista has Renfe train to Palencia. From Palencia you can rejoin the camino at el Burgo Ranero, Sahagun, or Leon by train.

Carrion de los Condes has ALSA bus service to Leon as does any village where the camino intersects the highway.

Frequency of service is an issue. It might be faster to walk.

 

[Valv]

I guess the obvious question is, why bail-out on the Meseta merely to walk a section you have walked before?

I'm not sure why some people avoid it....

Two reasons for not walking the full distance between Burgos and Leon 1] The suggested stages appear to be longer that the distances we're comfortable with (20 - 24km a day), and 2] I would like to follow the alternate route from Virgen del Camino for two days.

Even now, our proposed distances (based on what we were comfortable with last time) are hopeful as I have recently had a knee arthroscopy, and am not feeling quite as fit as I did two years ago .. and I am two years closer to 70.

I know that the 'stages' are only suggestions but shortening the days means spending longer on the Burgos to Leon section, and I'm unsure about accommodation if we stop at less-known villages, and availability of food for evening meals. Also, 17km along a Roman road through farmland may not be my preferred use of the limited time we have available. Flying long-haul from Australia we do not have the (financial) luxury of an open or one-way ticket so it all comes down to a cost (time)/ benefit (enjoyment) analysis of how best to utilise the 25 days we have available.

Many thanks for the information about Fromista, if we can make that a four day segment, rather than three, it will be ideal and will fit into our time frame.

 

[VNwalking]

As a meseta lover, I'm mystified by your desire to skip it. Nonetheless...there are direct trains from Sahagun to Leon. And as others have said, plenty of bus service.

There are sections that are along the road on a senda, as @Robo mentioned, but out of Fromista there is a quiet alternative until about 2/3rd of the way to Carrion, and much of the walk between Carrion and Sahagun is not. There is also an alternate way from just past Sahagun to Mansilla that is actually very quiet.

The meseta offers the gift of a 'reset' in favor of a deeper sense of scale and importance than we normally have. The meseta--and the universe--are vast. And we are nothing so important, really. Certainly nothing as central as we think.
And the paradox of this vast open landscape is that it's many treasures are small. The flowers underfoot, the way the wind moves through the grass. The song of a skylark so high overhead that it seems to come from empty space...

There's plenty written about the Meseta, but it needs to be directly experienced before you know how it will affect you one way or another.

So why not walk as you feel called to, and see for yourself how you feel? If you still want to jump ahead, just find the nearest town and catch a bus from there.

 

[dalstonmarra]

Hi,

We are starting another 'stage' of our personal Camino Frances in Roncevalles about September 8th. We have planned the walk to Burgos. However, we do not want to walk the full distance from Burgos to Leon, but perhaps walk a couple of days to 'sample' the meseta. Is there some point along the meseta where we can easily 'bail-out' and continue onto Leon with public transport? From Leon we plan to restart at Virgen del Camino and rewalk part of the route we walked in 2014 until we run out of time and have to return to Madrid for our flight home to Perth, Australia.

I found the most boring part of the Meseta between Sahagun and Villarente most of it alongside the road,in the open with no shelter from sun or wind.The railway runs through Sahagun so catch train here to Leon.

 

[Felice]

Make sure that you have a copy of Brierley's guide as it shows the alternative ways after Fromista. There's no need to walk on the senda next to the road for miles and miles ever. There's a delightful shaded stretch beside the river before Carrion. After Carrion, there's the long stretch on the old Roman road which is gloriously remote. After Sahagun, there's a very long stretch on senda beside the road to Mansilla if you miss the alternative route via the Roman road through Calzadilla. If it's hot, leave in the early morning each day. Wonderful views of the distant mountains too.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Hi,

We are starting another 'stage' of our personal Camino Frances in Roncevalles about September 8th. We have planned the walk to Burgos. However, we do not want to walk the full distance from Burgos to Leon, but perhaps walk a couple of days to 'sample' the meseta. Is there some point along the meseta where we can easily 'bail-out' and continue onto Leon with public transport? From Leon we plan to restart at Virgen del Camino and rewalk part of the route we walked in 2014 until we run out of time and have to return to Madrid for our flight home to Perth, Australia.

Hi, why scip the Meseta? It's such a beautiful part of the Camino.
It's a great country site with nice villages and small towns.
But the choice is yours, wish you a Buen Camino, Peter.

 

[dalstonmarra]

Hi, why scip the Meseta? It's such a beautiful part of the Camino.
It's a great country site with nice villages and small towns.
But the choice is yours, wish you a Buen Camino, Peter.

Peter, I live within 10 minutes drive to the Lake District and I can assure you the Messeta has nothing to compare.

 

[oursonpolaire]

Well, with questions of time, sometimes choices need to be made. If you must cut out some of the meseta, Sahagun is likely not a bad point. Might I suggest that, leaving Fromista, you follow the Villovieco variant (http://www.gronze.com/etapa/fromista/carrion-condes) by the Rio Ucieza at Poblacion de Campos. This takes you to the deserted and atmospheric Ermita de Nuestra Senora del Rio, and then a walk west along a quiet country road to Villalcazar de Sirga with its great church of Santia Maria la Blanca. From there it's an hour and a half stroll into Carrion--- this makes a nice way to finish off the meseta stretch and avoids the long long long and unshaded trail. The self-indulgent and solvent pilgrim can take a room at the San Zoilo, which has an extraordinary chapel and a small pilgrimage office (their menu dia is very good indeed, if hidden on the menu itself, but skip the hotel's breakfast and take your cafe con leche in the town before you take your bus to Leon).

 

[Felice]

Peter, I live within 10 minutes drive to the Lake District and I can assure you the Messeta has nothing to compare.

Comparing the Lake District with the meseta is like comparing beer and wine.

I love the Lake District. I also love the meseta but then I did not walk along the path beside the main road. Also the weather was not hot, but cool with massive beautiful clouds overhead.

 

[Castilian]

Many thanks for the information about Fromista, if we can make that a four day segment, rather than three, it will be ideal and will fit into our time frame.

If you end in Frómista, you can take a train to Osorno with RENFE (www.renfe.com) and a bus from Osorno to León with Alsa (www.alsa.es/en). The bus doesn't run on Sundays. If you want to make it in a single day, be aware the time to get from the train station to wherever the bus stops in Osorno (I don't know where it is) is, on working days (Mondays to Fridays except public holidays), with the current schedules (check what are the schedules on your travel date), just 19 minutes... (assuming the train is on time, i.e.) If you don't mind an overnight stop in Osorno (there are several accommodations in town), you could take either the train or a bus to get from Frómista to Osorno (ask locally about bus schedules) in the afternoon.

 

[november_moon]

We took the train from Sahagun to Leon, which we thought was a good choice - knocked about 2 days of walking off the Mesta. After several days on the Meseta, we'd had enough of it and were ready to move on. I know some people absolutely love the Meseta, but we were kind of over it. You know that generic Microsoft Windows background picture with the green field and blue sky? That's what a lot of it looked like. The first couple days out of Burgos were pretty interesting, and the walk along the river route was nice, but after that, it was getting pretty monotonous.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

For those of us who think the Meseta is an integral part of the Camino, it is not because of the views - I live in a part of the UK with beautiful scenery and also not far from dalstonmarra's Lake District - it is because of the long walk through a relatively uninterrupted stretch of the Way which for some has an almost transcendent effect. Perhaps if you are a music fan you might compare it to a Steve Reich or Philip Glass piece which through rhythmic repetition and lack of distraction leads to a deeper level of thought. But that is not for everyone. I recall saying to someone at the start of walking the CF last year that because I had read others on this forum say the Meseta was boring that I would probably take a bus to miss that stretch which demonstrates just how much (un)learning I had to do. Now I can't imagine walking the CF without stopping at San Bol and walking alone as the sun rises. Bliss.

 

[Carol06]

My Meseta highlight was from Castorjerez to Fromista. Stunningly beautiful. The walk to Carrion is easy the next day and then you can bus to Leon.

 

[good_old_shoes]

Dear Valv,

As others said, you can easily take the train from Sahagun to Leon. The train station is not far from the municipal albergue, the ticket is cheap (you can buy it directly at the station).

I do understand you want to "make the most" of your days on the Camino, but before getting there and actually doing it, how can you know what this "most" might be? To me that sounds like thinking in tourist categories: See the (assumedly) most beautiful scenery and sights, all those things we tend to read and hear of...

...but there's so much more to discover than that!

What, from afar, many consider boring or ugly, might have things to offer you can't even imagine right now.


Of course, your decision to make, in the end. All I want to say is - maybe at least give it a try.

(Also, the meseta is not the outback. There's enough places to rest or stay overnight... and concerning food - even as a vegetarian on a tight budget I didn't go to bed hungry, ever. No need for extremely long stages, just make sure to carry enough water and a few snacks between towns, as always. And it's mostly flat and shouldn't be that hard for your knees).


However you decide,

Buen Camino

 

[VNwalking]

Comparing the Lake District with the meseta is like comparing beer and wine.
I love the Lake District. I also love the meseta but then I did not walk along the path beside the main road.

I found the most boring part of the Meseta between Sahagun and Villarente most of it alongside the road,in the open with no shelter from sun or wind.

The alternate way avoids the road almost all the way into Mansilla de las Mulas--it's much more remote, but not without comfortable accommodation at Calzadilla de los Hermanillos (a very nice CR, Casa el Cura, as well as an equally high-quality albergue).

And yes, the Meseta can be 'boring.' But I was once told by one of the wisest people I know,"If you're bored you're not paying enough attention!"
A lesson I had to remember on the Meseta. It does have it's less than exciting moments, but the beauty of this place is subtle and doesn't immediately present itself to casual observation. But once you see the depth of it...wow.
(I've had the good fortune to live and work and walk in the most stunning landscapes on the planet...and to me the Meseta is no less gorgeous. Just a different kind of beauty, and one that naturally leads the mind and heart to deep inner places, rather than outward.)

And yes..no matter what the decision is...buen camino!

 

[dalstonmarra]

As the saying goes "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".I've been spoiled by my own surroundings and my visits to some of the best climbing areas in UK. Glencoe,LLanberis,Derbyshire, etc,etc.I missed the alternative from Sahagun because I had no guide book,playing by ear.Wouldn't want to walk the same again.

 

[VNwalking]

"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

Absolutely! Bottom line is how a given landscape makes us feel inside, which is why there is no such thing as an absolute measure of beauty...our subjective experiences are unique.

And do I detect a wee preference for terrain that has a few wrinkles? (I share this, actually, so the way I feel about the meseta came as a big surprise. They're absolutely not the Himalaya--which I love also--but if I had to choose between the two...honestly, I couldn't pick a favorite.)

 

[november_moon]

Bottom line - whatever you do or do not think or feel about the Meseta, there are plenty of escape routes should you want to take one

 

[Valv]

I do understand you want to "make the most" of your days on the Camino, but before getting there and actually doing it, how can you know what this "most" might be? To me that sounds like thinking in tourist categories: See the (assumedly) most beautiful scenery and sights, all those things we tend to read and hear of...

Hi good-old-shoes,

Not sure what you mean by "tourist categories" .... I simply want to ensure that I don't finish in a village on a Friday, expecting to leave the next day by bus, only to find that the next bus is noon on a Monday.

[QUOTE}

(Also, the meseta is not the outback. There's enough places to rest or stay overnight... and concerning food - even as a vegetarian on a tight budget I didn't go to bed hungry, ever. No need for extremely long stages, just make sure to carry enough water and a few snacks between towns, as always. And it's mostly flat and shouldn't be that hard for your knees).

[/QUOTE]

Yup, I realise the Camino is not the outback .. THAT was the 1000km Bibbulman track with only two "areas of habitation" actually on the track for its full length, but plenty of time to walk mindfully and commune with nature. This is why we enjoy walking the Camino, (and Scotland and the Lake District) - accessible food, water, accomodation and not too many eucalyptus trees

Thanks everyone for your practical advice. Maybe we'll see you on the Camino between September 8th and 28th.