Two pilgrims rescued in Napoleon Route

[navarro]

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/20...reja-de-peregrinos-en-el-refugio-de-izandorre

 

[RJM]

Very foolish pilgrims.
Thankfully the rescue went well and the rescue personnel all returned home safely.

 

[KinkyOne]

Geez...
I guess it's "if Martin Sheen can do it I can do it too" syndrome.

If I'll ever walk again from SJPdP I promise I would bring a bottle or two of Slovenian wine to those brave bombeiros from Burguette who are saving reckless westerners asses up there on the Pyrenees.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It's always good to share these potentially dangerous stories when they happen on the Napolean route in winter. They serve as warnings and reminders that no one, fit or not, is immune to the harsh environment.

 

[VNwalking]

I will not write most of what I am thinking about this.
Except to say "Bravo!" to the bombeiros.
And lucky people who got their stubborn skins saved.

 

[grayland]

The route was closed until April 1..as usual...
They will be facing some pretty good size fines and charges for the rescue.

 

[RJM]

Geez...
I guess it's "if Martin Sheen can do it I can do it too" syndrome.

If I'll ever walk again from SJPdP I promise I would bring a bottle or two of Slovenian wine to those brave bombeiros from Burguette who are saving reckless westerners asses up there on the Pyrenees.

I don't think that recent rescues have only involved pilgrims from Europe and the Americas.....

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

I don't think that recent rescues have only involved pilgrims from Europe and the Americas.....

Doesn't matter where they come from . It's STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE .
And the bombeiros have to go up there and save there.....

 

[SeaHorse]

If I'll ever walk again from SJPdP I promise I would bring a bottle or two of Slovenian wine to those brave bombeiros from Burguette who are saving reckless westerners asses up there on the Pyrenees.

Oh, yes! Thats a very good idea! I don't have Slovenian wine but diversity is good, I can bring something nice too! Thanks for the idea!

 

[Robo]

The route was closed until April 1..as usual... as far as I know.
They will be facing some pretty good size fines and charges for the rescue.

Big Fines I hope!
We'll definately try to drop off a gift for Bombeiros at Burguette as we pass by.
What is lightweight?

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Big Fines I hope!
We'll definately try to drop off a gift for Bombeiros at Burguette as we pass by.
What is lightweight?

Cola light

 

[VNwalking]

What is lightweight?

Money.

 

[Robo]

Money.

I was thinking that too. A donation to their entertainment fund

 

[VNwalking]

A donation to their entertainment fund

Indeed, indeed.
A token of appreciation. And a bit of input from the 'other side' - the thousands of considerate and intelligent peregrinos and peregrinas who read the signs and take the low road.

 

[Monasp]

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/20...reja-de-peregrinos-en-el-refugio-de-izandorre

Sure in this moment there is too much snow in the mountain and it's not possible to go by "Route Napoleon". You have to go by Valcarlos !!!!!!!

 

[VNwalking]

@Monasp , a deep bow of thanks for your dedication, and your patience with all of us - especially the stubborn ones who cannot take "Non" for an answer. It must be very frustrating to read such news, when your message is oh-so-clear....

 

[Purky]

We'll definately try to drop off a gift for Bombeiros at Burguette as we pass by.

What about a nice mug?

 

[Robo]

Indeed, indeed.
A token of appreciation. And a bit of input from the 'other side' - the thousands of considerate and intelligent peregrinos and peregrinas who read the signs and take the low road.

Maybe we can start a 'trend' of little envelopes being dropped off

 

[dfox]

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/20...reja-de-peregrinos-en-el-refugio-de-izandorre

Should the Napoleon path be open after April?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Should the Napoleon path be open after April?

I was wondering that myself. April 1st isn't really a "for sure" that conditions will be good by then. And "spring" had officially started when the couple was rescued, so technically it was no longer winter. Maybe the magic official date to go up and over should be April 15th....just a thought.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

When there is to much snow up the mountain it stays closed.
The Pilgrims Office will have daily a weather update .

 

[Nomad Pack]

I've spent the winter in Cantabria and the whole region has had the worst weather in years, expect the chance of snow on the higher elevations possibly until the end of April

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

[head shaking] Orisson is not open till April 1. Now seeing that picture, I wonder if they will actually open before May 1. But glad for one thing, markers got them to the refuge hut only a few km from Loepeder.

Gracias bombaderos!!!

 

[Piero Frustascarpe]

Ehm... "bombeiros": they "pump" (water), not "bomb"
In Italian "pompieri" and French "pompiers" or "sapeurs".

 

[Paladina]

All credit to the dedicated bombeiros, but don’t be too hard on the errant Scots. They made a mistake, for which they will probably pay handsomely. How many of us can truthfully say that we have never put ourselves or others at risk?

 

[Pelegrin]

Ehm... "bombeiros": they "pump" (water), not "bomb"
In Italian "pompieri" and French "pompiers" or "sapeurs".

In the case of Burguete the word is Bomberos (Spanish).
Bombeiros is correct in Galicia and Portugal.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

In the case of Burguete the word is Bomberos (Spanish).
Bombeiros is correct in Galicia and Portugal.

I'll never get any of this right! No wonder I struggle to learn proper Spanish at my age!

 

[Deleted member 76633]

All credit to the dedicated bombeiros, but don’t be too hard on the errant Scots.

While there may be sympathy for that viewpoint, the key question is that did they know the pass was closed; did they check; and if they did, did they ignore the advice.

Having spent a lot a my youth in the Scottish highlands, most people know how quickly the weather changes. So they would have had some idea - which is underlined by the fact they were sensible enough to get to that bothy which is what most people in that situation would have done.

Perhaps some of their own local wine would soothe the misunderstanding. Perhaps a Macallan 18.

 

[David]

Why would anyone choose to walk up into a mountain in snow?? Mind you, they are Scots - perhaps they saw it as normal summer weather?

 

[trecile]

All credit to the dedicated bombeiros, but don’t be too hard on the errant Scots. They made a mistake, for which they will probably pay handsomely. How many of us can truthfully say that we have never put ourselves or others at risk?

Truthfully, I have never put myself or anyone else at this kind of risk.

 

[Purky]

Perhaps a Macallan 18.

Completely off-topic, but what were they thinking at Macallan with their rebranding around 2012? The prices here in Holland went up like crazy, so I haven't had a bottle of their excellent 12 year old in the cupboard in six years. Real shame...

 

[KinkyOne]

Why would anyone choose to walk up into a mountain in snow?? Mind you, they are Scots - perhaps they saw it as normal summer weather?

I got your humorous note on this but exactly Scots or Scandinavians or people from Alps regions (where I come from) should have know the danger of these conditions even on lower altitudes.
My late friend and climbing tutor (the first Slovenian/Yugoslavian then to climb one of the Great 14 over 8000mts - Makalu) survived Himalayas, Andes and Alps but died on a sunny day while taking a winter "stroll" (for his experience) with someone on similar altitude as Napoleon Route.

I guess it's true that life is like a box of chocolate...

 

[Monasp]

Should the Napoleon path be open after April?

If there isn't snow yes Napoleon path is open

 

[tpmchugh]

[head shaking] Orisson is not open till April 1. Now seeing that picture, I wonder if they will actually open before May 1. But glad for one thing, markers got them to the refuge hut only a few km from Loepeder.

Gracias bombaderos!!!

Orisson are currently not taking reservations for the first week of April. I tried and they said phone if the pilgrim office says the route is open. They have however taken reservations from a friend for the third week

 

[GraemeHall]

Geez...
I guess it's "if Martin Sheen can do it I can do it too" syndrome.

If I'll ever walk again from SJPdP I promise I would bring a bottle or two of Slovenian wine to those brave bombeiros from Burguette who are saving reckless westerners asses up there on the Pyrenees.

Not forgetting that those brave bombeiros are themselves Westerners

 

[KinkyOne]

Not forgetting that those brave bombeiros are themselves Westerners

By using word Westerners I meant what we very often are: too much self-confident and self-centered. Like we can do just anything and we know it all. But nature knows more and there is a time when we hit the wall...

And then bomberos from Burguette come to rescue us

 

[tpmchugh]

Sure in this moment there is too much snow in the mountain and it's not possible to go by "Route Napoleon". You have to go by Valcarlos !!!!!!!

@Monasp What are the current conditions on ValCarlos route. A pilgrim who walked it just over a week ago reported snow up to a meter deep. I will be walking it on the 6th

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Big Fines I hope!
We'll definately try to drop off a gift for Bombeiros at Burguette as we pass by.
What is lightweight?

The bomberos are located on the N-135 highway, off the camino. You will pass them if you walk the N-135 to Espinal instead of taking the camino. After about a kilometer or less beyond them, on the left, is the N-140 and on the map linked below you can see a cluster of buildings near the intersection. One of these is marked as a gourmet grocery store; seems like a good place to pick up something for the mozos if you don't mind walking back to them.

This interactive map should be centered on the fire department. It is before the red roofed building. You can use Google Street View.
https://mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.php?ll=42.983819,-1.341418&z=17&t=h

 

[Robo]

Thanks. Looks like it's only a few hundred metres down the road from the Camino turnoff.
I might leave Pat with a coffee and the packs and wander down...

 

[KinkyOne]

Thanks. Looks like it's only a few hundred metres down the road from the Camino turnoff.
I might leave Pat with a coffee and the packs and wander down...

Going for a beer, eh?
And leave her to entertain bomberos. hehehe...

 

[Becky 59]

If there is that much snow on the Napolean route, how is the Valcarlos route?

 

[Deleted member 67185]

If there is that much snow on the Napolean route, how is the Valcarlos route?

Usually OK. But if you are in SJPdP to start your Camino, the Pilgrim Office volunteers will have the latest conditions and recommendations. Those who are wise will listen to them

 

[Kwwhite]

If there isn't snow yes Napoleon path is open

Do you post anywhere online from the St Jean Pilgrims Office if the Napoleon route is open? So we don’t have to call?
WhAt are your hours daily on that office to check in before we hike?
Thanks!!

 

[Robo]

Going for a beer, eh?
And leave her to entertain bomberos. hehehe...

No....the other way around

 

[Deleted member 76633]

If anyone knows how to make a donation to the SJPP/Roncevalles bombaderos, could they post a link.

They can then buy they're own Macallan.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Do you post anywhere online from the St Jean Pilgrims Office if the Napoleon route is open? So we don’t have to call?
WhAt are your hours daily on that office to check in before we hike?
Thanks!!

Pilgrims Office - Site de stjeanpieddeport-roncevaux !

You can check the above website .

 

[trecile]

Do you post anywhere online from the St Jean Pilgrims Office if the Napoleon route is open? So we don’t have to call?
WhAt are your hours daily on that office to check in before we hike?
Thanks!!

SJPDP is a pretty small place, and the Pilgrims Office is centrally located. You should stop in for advice and a sello.

 

[Iriebabel]

Big Fines I hope!
We'll definately try to drop off a gift for Bombeiros at Burguette as we pass by.
What is lightweight?

Ver light : A hug and a smile

 

[jeffnd]

Rather than condemning these pilgrims, I'd rather congratulate them for doing the right thing after they made their mistake. They knew they got in over their heads and called for help. Obviously they knew they were in the wrong, and had made a bad decision. It takes a lot of pride-swallowing to say, "I messed up and I now I need help."

But they did make the call, and now they are safe. Maybe they'll have to pay a fine or the cost of the rescue. Maybe they had to endure a tongue-lashing for the rescuers. Maybe they are members of this forum and now get to read all the finger-wagging and head-shaking going on over them.

But so what? They are safe now, hopefully lesson learned and lesson taught to any other pilgrims who would ignore the winter closure of the Napoleon route. And the lesson that all of us should learn is not to be afraid to ask for help when we need it, whether it's through no fault of our own, or even if we screwed up big time like these pilgrims. Because no one likes coming on here and seeing, "Pilgrim found dead at __________."

Like the old saying goes, "We want to talk to you, not about you."

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Rather than condemning these pilgrims, I'd rather congratulate them for doing the right thing after they made their mistake. They knew they got in over their heads and called for help. Obviously they knew they were in the wrong, and had made a bad decision. It takes a lot of pride-swallowing to say, "I messed up and I now I need help."

But they did make the call, and now they are safe. Maybe they'll have to pay a fine or the cost of the rescue. Maybe they had to endure a tongue-lashing for the rescuers. Maybe they are members of this forum and now get to read all the finger-wagging and head-shaking going on over them.

But so what? They are safe now, hopefully lesson learned and lesson taught to any other pilgrims who would ignore the winter closure of the Napoleon route. And the lesson that all of us should learn is not to be afraid to ask for help when we need it, whether it's through no fault of our own, or even if we screwed up big time like these pilgrims. Because no one likes coming on here and seeing, "Pilgrim found dead at __________."

Like the old saying goes, "We want to talk to you, not about you."

I understand where you are coming from, but I gently disagree. There is no congratulations due when you are doing what is necessary to save your life after ignoring the warnings and putting yourself in danger. They didn't turn themselves in after committing a wrongdoing; they were merely trying to survive from doing something they didn't need to do, shouldn't have done, but did anyway.

During high school I was part of the Mt Rescue team in a county near to Mt. Rainier. The foolishness that some of the people we would pull off the glaciers exhibited was sometimes breathtakingly stunning; keep in mind that this was the primary training ground for Jim Whittaker who was the first American to summit Everest.

A lot of times, the rescue was straight forward... someone too exhausted, underdressed, near hypothermic, and with insufficient equipment. It would be a long, sweaty slog to get up to the altitude they were at, load them onto a sledge, then walk the sledge down to a waiting ambulance.

Many other times involved pulling people out of crevasses, grabbing them from being stranded on ledges, and looking for bodies in avalanches, despite the ranger radio information broadcasts and signs at the main staging areas warning of a new avalanche danger. Many times these were people undertrained and with limited experience thinking they could push the odds.

Most times the danger to us was pretty minimal, but other times I felt like I was dipping into my stash of nine lives.

Vocal condemnation of foolish actions may be what is needed to keep someone else from thinking about doing the same thing. In any event, the condemnation doesn't need to be abusive.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

On America's National Public Radio (NPR) there is a show called The Moth ("True stories told live.") One story I heard on January 7, 2018 was "Backside of the storm.", a story told by Joe Lantini about a mountain search and rescue mission he was a part of, its dangers and its consequences. It is about 13 minutes long and it can be accessed at this URL: http://player.themoth.org/#/?actionType=ADD_AND_PLAY&storyid=15287

If you can't access the podcast directly through the link above then visit this page to get the story:
https://themoth.org/radio-hour/live-from-portsmouth

 

[RJM]

Rather than condemning these pilgrims, I'd rather congratulate them for doing the right thing after they made their mistake. They knew they got in over their heads and called for help. Obviously they knew they were in the wrong, and had made a bad decision. It takes a lot of pride-swallowing to say, "I messed up and I now I need help."

But they did make the call, and now they are safe. Maybe they'll have to pay a fine or the cost of the rescue. Maybe they had to endure a tongue-lashing for the rescuers. Maybe they are members of this forum and now get to read all the finger-wagging and head-shaking going on over them.

But so what? They are safe now, hopefully lesson learned and lesson taught to any other pilgrims who would ignore the winter closure of the Napoleon route. And the lesson that all of us should learn is not to be afraid to ask for help when we need it, whether it's through no fault of our own, or even if we screwed up big time like these pilgrims. Because no one likes coming on here and seeing, "Pilgrim found dead at __________."

Like the old saying goes, "We want to talk to you, not about you."

Many, many years ago I broke a cardinal rule whilst on a night scuba dive. I separated from my dive partner without letting him know. Long story short, I got caught up in currents, swept out and was only after spending the night out at sea I was picked up by a fishing boat that saw me flashing my dive torch at them. I was pretty far from where we had been diving, and actually around a point of land, so not visible.
My point to the story is that search and rescue went out looking for me by boat and helicopter, but their range wasn't where I was. The entire incident was my fault 100%, and was due to a bad decision. Poor judgement. Head up my....
I believe my training and physical condition kept me alive that night as well as my pragmatic outlook to the situation (and no hungry tiger sharks that night ). Nonetheless I was embarrassed and ashamed I did what I did and placed others in a situation to look for me. Last thing in the world I wanted was kudos for my survival. Don't get me wrong though, I do have empathy for others like me that mess up like that. I just feel that harsh scolding is in order so as to discourage others from doing it as well.

 

[KinkyOne]

Many, many years ago I broke a cardinal rule whilst on a night scuba dive. I separated from my dive partner without letting him know. Long story short, I got caught up in currents, swept out and was only after spending the night out at sea I was picked up by a fishing boat that saw me flashing my dive torch at them. I was pretty far from where we had been diving, and actually around a point of land, so not visible.
My point to the story is that search and rescue went out looking for me by boat and helicopter, but their range wasn't where I was. The entire incident was my fault 100%, and was due to a bad decision. Poor judgement. Head up my....
I believe my training and physical condition kept me alive that night as well as my pragmatic outlook to the situation (and no hungry tiger sharks that night ). Nonetheless I was embarrassed and ashamed I did what I did and placed others in a situation to look for me. Last thing in the world I wanted was kudos for my survival. Don't get me wrong though, I do have empathy for others like me that mess up like that. I just feel that harsh scolding is in order so as to discourage others from doing it as well.

I bow my head to your attitude!!!

 

[KinkyOne]

I understand where you are coming from, but I gently disagree. There is no congratulations due when you are doing what is necessary to save your life after ignoring the warnings and putting yourself in danger. They didn't turn themselves in after committing a wrongdoing; they were merely trying to survive from doing something they didn't need to do, shouldn't have done, but did anyway.

During high school I was part of the Mt Rescue team in a county near to Mt. Rainier. The foolishness that some of the people we would pull off the glaciers exhibited was sometimes breathtakingly stunning; keep in mind that this was the primary training ground for Jim Whittaker who was the first American to summit Everest.

A lot of times, the rescue was straight forward... someone too exhausted, underdressed, near hypothermic, and with insufficient equipment. It would be a long, sweaty slog to get up to the altitude they were at, load them onto a sledge, then walk the sledge down to a waiting ambulance.

Many other times involved pulling people out of crevasses, grabbing them from being stranded on ledges, and looking for bodies in avalanches, despite the ranger radio information broadcasts and signs at the main staging areas warning of a new avalanche danger. Many times these were people undertrained and with limited experience thinking they could push the odds.

Most times the danger to us was pretty minimal, but other times I felt like I was dipping into my stash of nine lives.

Vocal condemnation of foolish actions may be what is needed to keep someone else from thinking about doing the same thing. In any event, the condemnation doesn't need to be abusive.

Thousand likes!
Years ago as a climber a descended from the walls few times to help hikers/mountaineers in distress (on hiking trails) and wait with them for help to arrive. Most of the cases happened because of not knowing or following the suggestions of either Tourist Offices or locals. Very simple.
Just play it by the rules and with nature you can be sure that's the safest bet...

 

[Pong]

If there is that much snow on the Napolean route, how is the Valcarlos route?

I went over from Val Carlos to Roncesvalles on Saturday, March 24. The folks in SJPP as well as in Val Carlos urged everyone to stick to the roadway and avoid the actual Camino paths that are part of the Val Carlos route. I followed their advice and it was fine walking the road. They were ice and snow free. Traffic was light and drivers courteous. I spoke with several people who walked the paths and they reported some sections with snow almost to the knees. Everyone reported it was cold, wet, and miserable walking. I generally don´t like roadside walks, but this was fine. I live in northern New Hampshire and can walk in the snow at home, no need to do so here in Spain. I am wearing low cut shoes and walk without hiking sticks, so the road was the right decision for me. It was a rainy day, with some light snow falling at the higher elevations approaching the Col de Ibañeta, but it was a good day nevertheless Buen Camino.

 

[Butterfly]

Orisson are currently not taking reservations for the first week of April. I tried and they said phone if the pilgrim office says the route is open. They have however taken reservations from a friend for the third week

Hi, I've booked my bed at refuge orisson for the 11th of April and paid - I'm hopeful and very much looking forward to it

 

[MethaV]

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/20...reja-de-peregrinos-en-el-refugio-de-izandorre

Great job, Bombardieros! And good thing to write about it. Even pilgrims should know better than crossing the Pyrenees in wintertime. There is a reason for all these warnings.

 

[adam lapp]

Hiked valcarlos 5 days ago. Was aptly told Napoleon was closed. Valcarlos has snow in sections you had to hike around or through...I can’t imagine Napoleon route.

 

[hieudovan]

All credit to the dedicated bombeiros, but don’t be too hard on the errant Scots. They made a mistake, for which they will probably pay handsomely. How many of us can truthfully say that we have never put ourselves or others at risk?

Please, this is not a case of "We all make mistakes." They are/were pilgrims who should know better than risking their lives and others'. The information and facts stared them in the face when "they made a mistake." OTOH, it's heart warming to read the posts about the bombeiros. No longer unsung heroes. Buen camino and Happy Easter to all.

 

[RJM]

I bow my head to your attitude!!!

Thank you.
The fisherman, my wonderful guardian angels on earth that plucked me out of the ocean and whom I love, were very pragmatic as well. They dropped me off on land (about a 30 minute boat ride), slapped me on the back and took off to resume fishing. I then wandered around in the night and managed to locate assistance in notifying others I was still alive.
I still do not know who they were, and never had a chance to get their names or anything and to thank them more. I have always wanted to at least buy them a few cases of beer. They did not look like scotch drinkers, lol.

 

[oldman]

I was wondering that myself. April 1st isn't really a "for sure" that conditions will be good by then. And "spring" had officially started when the couple was rescued, so technically it was no longer winter. Maybe the magic official date to go up and over should be April 15th....just a thought.

I went over April 15th, in 1013. There was a track the width of a single person up to a meter deep in places. The hill only opened on the 11th ,it closed again on the 16th for 3 days and then they closed the Forrest on the far side due to heigh winds
So even when its officially open it does not mean its going to be fully clear .

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Many, many years ago I broke a cardinal rule whilst on a night scuba dive. I separated from my dive partner without letting him know. Long story short, I got caught up in currents, swept out and was only after spending the night out at sea I was picked up by a fishing boat that saw me flashing my dive torch at them. I was pretty far from where we had been diving, and actually around a point of land, so not visible.
My point to the story is that search and rescue went out looking for me by boat and helicopter, but their range wasn't where I was. The entire incident was my fault 100%, and was due to a bad decision. Poor judgement. Head up my....
I believe my training and physical condition kept me alive that night as well as my pragmatic outlook to the situation (and no hungry tiger sharks that night ). Nonetheless I was embarrassed and ashamed I did what I did and placed others in a situation to look for me. Last thing in the world I wanted was kudos for my survival. Don't get me wrong though, I do have empathy for others like me that mess up like that. I just feel that harsh scolding is in order so as to discourage others from doing it as well.

That sounds like an extremely horrific experience for you. I'm sure that was the longest night you have ever had, treading in that black inky water! How absolutely awful!

 

[RJM]

That sounds like an extremely horrific experience for you. I'm sure that was the longest night you have ever had, treading in that black inky water! How absolutely awful!

Not so much horrific, but just concerning. I knew I had to get myself out of the situation so I went to work to do so, and that took up the entire time I was out there. I could see lights on the far shore/beach and did everything I could to not get too far from them, lest I die further out in the ocean with its much stronger currents. Fortunately I had a good dive light/torch and saw those fisherman and their boat. They were in quite disbelief at first when they came up to me. I also remember at times being surrounded by luminescent plankton while out there. That was amazing and beautiful.
I tell anyone in a situation like that, wherever it occurs, maybe even on the Camino, to just get to work and get yourself out of it.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Not so much horrific, but just concerning. I knew I had to get myself out of the situation so I went to work to do so, and that took up the entire time I was out there. I could see lights on the far shore/beach and did everything I could to not get too far from them, lest I die further out in the ocean with its much stronger currents. Fortunately I had a good dive light/torch and saw those fisherman and their boat. They were in quite disbelief at first when they came up to me. I also remember at times being surrounded by luminescent plankton while out there. That was amazing and beautiful.
I tell anyone in a situation like that, wherever it occurs, maybe even on the Camino, to just get to work and get yourself out of it.

Glad you kept your wits about you and had the headlamp. Me? I would have been horrified to the max...just saying.

 

[trecile]

I went over April 15th, in 1013. There was a track the width of a single person up to a meter deep in places. The hill only opened on the 11th ,it closed again on the 16th for 3 days and then they closed the Forrest on the far side due to heigh winds
So even when its officially open it does not mean its going to be fully clear .

1013? You really are an OldMan.

 

[JulieandPeter]

For those of you who are planning to walk in April: We had snow (on the ground) and fog on April 10, 2015. It took us 12 hours to walk from SJPDP to Roncesvalles and we arrived after sunset. The fog and snow played a big part in why it took us so long because we were uncertain at times which way to go because we could not see the trail. At one point we had to backtrack to the last sign to make sure we had gone the right way.

By the way, it was a gorgeous, clear day when we started and the views were spectacular until we walked into the fog. We never felt we were in danger because it wasn't cold and we had food (actually it was one of the best days of my life), HOWEVER, our phone battery died at the top because we had it on all day taking photos, so if we needed help there was no way to call and we were the only people on the mountain at that time.

So regardless of the weather make sure you have a backup phone or charger, and carry food.

Buen Camino and thank you bomberos everywhere!

 

[Kurisu]

Just read what these stupid dudes did!!! This way is closed until march 31. Don't try to be tough, follw this rule at least.
Hope they get a good fine.

 

[grayland]

I walked the Napoleon Route one year on May 1st and had snow and sleet. Many people had difficulty and many turned back to Orisson and took taxis. We were walking from LePuy that time and had been walking for about 34 days already and were better prepared than those on their 1st day.
High wind and very cold. The previous day had been shirt sleeve sunshine weather.

 

[Deleted member 56069]

Hope it was worth the $5000 or more Euro's it cost to rescue them. I understand rescue costs are now charged back to those that need rescuing and rightly so.
I assume those that walk the Napoleon route when it is closed are not from cold countries with snow. I have lived in northern Alberta a good portion of my life and I have a lot of respect for snow and cold temperatures.

 

[Robo]

I was thinking that too. A donation to their entertainment fund

I got my Spainish teacher to write out the wording for the envelope.
Basically "thank you for your great work from 2 grateful Pilgrims"

 

[Monasp]

For those of you who are planning to walk in April: We had snow (on the ground) and fog on April 10, 2015. It took us 12 hours to walk from SJPDP to Roncesvalles and we arrived after sunset. The fog and snow played a big part in why it took us so long because we were uncertain at times which way to go because we could not see the trail. At one point we had to backtrack to the last sign to make sure we had gone the right way.

By the way, it was a gorgeous, clear day when we started and the views were spectacular until we walked into the fog. We never felt we were in danger because it wasn't cold and we had food (actually it was one of the best days of my life), HOWEVER, our phone battery died at the top because we had it on all day taking photos, so if we needed help there was no way to call and we were the only people on the mountain at that time.

So regardless of the weather make sure you have a backup phone or charger, and carry food.

Buen Camino and thank you bomberos everywhere!

You were lucky ! Some years ago 7 pilgrims dead on this mountain with snow and frog.

 

[deidrecombs]

If there is that much snow on the Napolean route, how is the Valcarlos route?

We used it yesterday and there was no snow. But...it snowed all day today!

 

[ISABEL linares]

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/20...reja-de-peregrinos-en-el-refugio-de-izandorre

Well done Cuerpo de Bomberos,peregrinos should not being walking in those conditions.they are lucky to be rescue.

 

[Magnara]

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/20...reja-de-peregrinos-en-el-refugio-de-izandorre

We walked it in January 2006. In those days the route was not closed in winter. We are Australian, so we were not used to snowy conditions, and there were no signs of bad weather when we set out. We had no idea that we were doing anything risky. But we really could have died - we were caught in a blizzard half way up (near the statue of the Virgin Mary). We made it, but we realised we were lucky. To go there when the route is closed is a terrible decision, both stupid and selfish.

 

[naplesdon]

I hate frogs

 

[ISABEL linares]

We walked it in January 2006. In those days the route was not closed in winter. We are Australian, so we were not used to snowy conditions, and there were no signs of bad weather when we set out. We had no idea that we were doing anything risky. But we really could have died - we were caught in a blizzard half way up (near the statue of the Virgin Mary). We made it, but we realised we were lucky. To go there when the route is closed is a terrible decision, both stupid and selfish.

 

[ISABEL linares]

Yes you were very lucky ,the winters can be very hard there.My son is living in Sidney and is always good weather.

 

[David]

I don't know, there seems to be hidden cruelty here, or at least a sort of holier than thou attitude.. Who, who has lived, really lived, has not made devastating mistakes???

No one who starts at St Jean is a pilgrim, they are all virgins and unless they are already seasoned hikers they haven't a clue. Many decades ago I climbed the mountain St Victoire, outside Aix en Provence in France. You may have seen the Renoir painting? Long long gentle stroll up on one side and vertical on the other? There were three of us and we were young and totally stupid. The girls had walked up the slope to the top and we decided to climb up the easiest path on the vertical side and meet them at the top. We were wearing shorts, t shirts, sneakers (plimsolls), carrying big rucksacks full of wine and picnic items. After some hours we got a bit lost and then saw a number of paths shown on a big metal notice.
We avoided the 'red' path as we thought that might be the most dangerous and chose the 'black' path as it sounded innocuous. It turned out that 'black' path also meant the 'death' path (we found out afterwards that three had died on it in the past two years) and it needed to be done with ropes and hammers and pitons and it wasn't until we were finally on the last section, a high vertical face with a narrow vertical crack in it that we could squeeze our feet into sideways, with our sneakers ripped to shreds that we started to understand that we had made a ghastly mistake.
I was last in line, not a climber, and also scared of heights. About halfway up this vertical face I became truly scared and made the mistake of looking down and became so terrified that I tried to go down - impossible - and became stuck. At that moment, when in my utter terror and with body out of control I froze and then started to lose my grip, a real mountaineer, who had been out of sight, around a curve in the cliff wall, suddenly appeared. Helmet, roped on, hammer, pitons, and he just stared at me in utter shock and then asked if I was ok. Being English, although I was about to fall and obviously had a green pale face I told him I was alright. He told me not to move and called his friends to help him rescue me. Then, above, my pal Phil did a madly stupid thing, he crouched down, stuck his foot sideways into the crack, leaned out and downwards and told me to take his hand. Had I taken his hand I would have pulled him off and we would both have fallen. But the utterly ludicrous bravery of that gave me some courage. Then Michael, the top of us three, who was a climber, called that he had reached the top but it was an overhang but as climbers had been there before all he had to do was to reach up, lean outwards, and throw his arms over and there would be handholds there. He actually believed that! He did that and gained the top. Then my pal did the same. I moved upwards, too scared not to, and as the mountain climber appeared again and told me not to move, that help was coming - I knew that if I did not move I would fall, and my two pals called out that they were both lying down and ready to catch my arms so in utter terror I crawled up as high as I could to the overhang until I was crouching below it, hanging on, and then in an absurd leap of faith leapt upwards and outwards into space with my arms above me and they caught me and pulled me over the top. I should have fallen, of course, I should have died that day, of course I should, but when I started I had no idea how stupid I was being. None of us had any idea how stupid we were.

My point is that we all make mistakes, that the graveyards are full of such people so really, let us be glad they did the right thing - stopped trying to move forward, found shelter, called for assistance, and that we are not offering our condolences to bereaved loved ones.
We all make mistakes, we can all be foolish. All of us. Just saying.

p.s. and I am still terrified of heights
p.p.s. and I am still stupid!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

@David, I am also terrified of heights and I can barely imagine how totally awful that was for you to go through! I've been to Zion National Park in Utah, USA, and the park's well known hike, Angel's Landing, is known to be rather scary on the top sections. I would have loved to have hiked to the top last year, but knowing my limitations with fear of heights, I knew I'd "freeze" up there, unable to go forward or backward, so alas, Utube videos are the only way I've been able to "get there".
Thanks for sharing your story.

 

[Thornley]

STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE .

So was Napoleon

Napoleon once said
"God is on the side with the biggest artillery"
He was Narcissistic , loved a drink and if had any humility could have ruled the world.

He was never on this path , ever .
He had a rest in Biarritz/Bayonne when the Spanish [Basque ] commenced their resistance at Izpegi Pass th

How this path over the hills , from St JPP which means "St Johns Foot Path " got his name has been brilliant marketing but very , very incorrect.
If you started in Italy or Geneva and went near St Bernard's Pass i can understand as that's where he crossed the Alps but please not on The Frances.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I don't know, there seems to be hidden cruelty here, or at least a sort of holier than thou attitude.. Who, who has lived, really lived, has not made devastating mistakes???

No one who starts at St Jean is a pilgrim, they are all virgins and unless they are already seasoned hikers they haven't a clue. Many decades ago I climbed the mountain St Victoire, outside Aix en Provence in France. You may have seen the Renoir painting? Long long gentle stroll up on one side and vertical on the other? There were three of us and we were young and totally stupid. The girls had walked up the slope to the top and we decided to climb up the easiest path on the vertical side and meet them at the top. We were wearing shorts, t shirts, sneakers (plimsolls), carrying big rucksacks full of wine and picnic items. After some hours we got a bit lost and then saw a number of paths shown on a big metal notice.
We avoided the 'red' path as we thought that might be the most dangerous and chose the 'black' path as it sounded innocuous. It turned out that 'black' path also meant the 'death' path (we found out afterwards that three had died on it in the past two years) and it needed to be done with ropes and hammers and pitons and it wasn't until we were finally on the last section, a high vertical face with a narrow vertical crack in it that we could squeeze our feet into sideways, with our sneakers ripped to shreds that we started to understand that we had made a ghastly mistake.
I was last in line, not a climber, and also scared of heights. About halfway up this vertical face I became truly scared and made the mistake of looking down and became so terrified that I tried to go down - impossible - and became stuck. At that moment, when in my utter terror and with body out of control I froze and then started to lose my grip, a real mountaineer, who had been out of sight, around a curve in the cliff wall, suddenly appeared. Helmet, roped on, hammer, pitons, and he just stared at me in utter shock and then asked if I was ok. Being English, although I was about to fall and obviously had a green pale face I told him I was alright. He told me not to move and called his friends to help him rescue me. Then, above, my pal Phil did a madly stupid thing, he crouched down, stuck his foot sideways into the crack, leaned out and downwards and told me to take his hand. Had I taken his hand I would have pulled him off and we would both have fallen. But the utterly ludicrous bravery of that gave me some courage. Then Michael, the top of us three, who was a climber, called that he had reached the top but it was an overhang but as climbers had been there before all he had to do was to reach up, lean outwards, and throw his arms over and there would be handholds there. He actually believed that! He did that and gained the top. Then my pal did the same. I moved upwards, too scared not to, and as the mountain climber appeared again and told me not to move, that help was coming - I knew that if I did not move I would fall, and my two pals called out that they were both lying down and ready to catch my arms so in utter terror I crawled up as high as I could to the overhang until I was crouching below it, hanging on, and then in an absurd leap of faith leapt upwards and outwards into space with my arms above me and they caught me and pulled me over the top. I should have fallen, of course, I should have died that day, of course I should, but when I started I had no idea how stupid I was being. None of us had any idea how stupid we were.

My point is that we all make mistakes, that the graveyards are full of such people so really, let us be glad they did the right thing - stopped trying to move forward, found shelter, called for assistance, and that we are not offering our condolences to bereaved loved ones.
We all make mistakes, we can all be foolish. All of us. Just saying.

p.s. and I am still terrified of heights
p.p.s. and I am still stupid!

Thank you for that personal story, David. I understand where you are coming from. I do see a difference between an uninformed mistake which you made, and willfully ignoring posted warnings, though.

 

[Kathar1na]

I spoke to people who walked the Valcarlos route at the same time as these two underinformed, undertrained, underequipped and wilfully ignorant two individuals who were lucky that in recent years a shelter had been built on the pass of the route Napoleon, an emergency telephone had been installed in the shelter and access to WiFi/net on the pass had been installed on the pass so that they could call for help when it finally dawned on them that they were too tired to continue and could not see the path any more because of snow. They didn’t have enough strength for their foolish enterprise and didn’t want to carry the necessary equipment. Duh. No tale of heroism there.

The pilgrim I spoke too, on his second Camino Frances and a fit 30 km per day walker said there was 50 cm of snow on the higher part of the Valcarlos route and it took 2-3 hours to walk where it normally takes an hour. If there’s snow on the top of the Valcarlos road there’s even more snow on the higher Napoleon road.

Another pilgrim who walked Valcarlos at the same time said it rained in the valley but again higher up she had to walk through knee deep snow and it sapped her energy.

I had watched weather forecasts for Spain around that time and there where weather alerts for heavy snow falls. It wasn’t a surprising unexpected weather event that it snowed and had snowed on the the snow that was already on the higher pass.

Weather forecasts do change considerably even over the short term but on the evening or morning when you start walking, they are amazingly correct hour by hour for your location.

The people in the pilgrims office know how much snow there is on both routes. You just have ask and follow their advice.

People who get themselves into trouble as these two walkers in the article did must serve as a warning to prevent other fools from following in their steps. For me, that’s the only purpose for talking about the reported event.

 

[Kurisu]

@Monasp What are the current conditions on ValCarlos route. A pilgrim who walked it just over a week ago reported snow up to a meter deep. I will be walking it on the 6th

You need t stay on the road. Don't take the few shortcuts.

 

[Jacobus]

I don't know, there seems to be hidden cruelty here, or at least a sort of holier than thou attitude.. Who, who has lived, really lived, has not made devastating mistakes???

No one who starts at St Jean is a pilgrim, they are all virgins and unless they are already seasoned hikers they haven't a clue. Many decades ago I climbed the mountain St Victoire, outside Aix en Provence in France. You may have seen the Renoir painting? Long long gentle stroll up on one side and vertical on the other? There were three of us and we were young and totally stupid. The girls had walked up the slope to the top and we decided to climb up the easiest path on the vertical side and meet them at the top. We were wearing shorts, t shirts, sneakers (plimsolls), carrying big rucksacks full of wine and picnic items. After some hours we got a bit lost and then saw a number of paths shown on a big metal notice.
We avoided the 'red' path as we thought that might be the most dangerous and chose the 'black' path as it sounded innocuous. It turned out that 'black' path also meant the 'death' path (we found out afterwards that three had died on it in the past two years) and it needed to be done with ropes and hammers and pitons and it wasn't until we were finally on the last section, a high vertical face with a narrow vertical crack in it that we could squeeze our feet into sideways, with our sneakers ripped to shreds that we started to understand that we had made a ghastly mistake.
I was last in line, not a climber, and also scared of heights. About halfway up this vertical face I became truly scared and made the mistake of looking down and became so terrified that I tried to go down - impossible - and became stuck. At that moment, when in my utter terror and with body out of control I froze and then started to lose my grip, a real mountaineer, who had been out of sight, around a curve in the cliff wall, suddenly appeared. Helmet, roped on, hammer, pitons, and he just stared at me in utter shock and then asked if I was ok. Being English, although I was about to fall and obviously had a green pale face I told him I was alright. He told me not to move and called his friends to help him rescue me. Then, above, my pal Phil did a madly stupid thing, he crouched down, stuck his foot sideways into the crack, leaned out and downwards and told me to take his hand. Had I taken his hand I would have pulled him off and we would both have fallen. But the utterly ludicrous bravery of that gave me some courage. Then Michael, the top of us three, who was a climber, called that he had reached the top but it was an overhang but as climbers had been there before all he had to do was to reach up, lean outwards, and throw his arms over and there would be handholds there. He actually believed that! He did that and gained the top. Then my pal did the same. I moved upwards, too scared not to, and as the mountain climber appeared again and told me not to move, that help was coming - I knew that if I did not move I would fall, and my two pals called out that they were both lying down and ready to catch my arms so in utter terror I crawled up as high as I could to the overhang until I was crouching below it, hanging on, and then in an absurd leap of faith leapt upwards and outwards into space with my arms above me and they caught me and pulled me over the top. I should have fallen, of course, I should have died that day, of course I should, but when I started I had no idea how stupid I was being. None of us had any idea how stupid we were.

My point is that we all make mistakes, that the graveyards are full of such people so really, let us be glad they did the right thing - stopped trying to move forward, found shelter, called for assistance, and that we are not offering our condolences to bereaved loved ones.
We all make mistakes, we can all be foolish. All of us. Just saying.

p.s. and I am still terrified of heights
p.p.s. and I am still stupid!

I cant help but agree that some posters on this thread are extremely judgemental. In some cases inferring that you are “stupid” if you are a pilgrim and make a bad decision. That is judgemental and harsh. It should not take away from the more moderate message of being careful of putting yourself and others at risk. By the way, you take risks daily that do not usually require rescue but that is life, not stupidity.
I spent 35 years on a large urban professional fire department and never once had occasion to hurl insults at victims for bad decisions they made.
In this case I think the intent was NOT to climb the Napoleon and force a rescue.

 

[WanderingNotLost]

I don't know, there seems to be hidden cruelty here, or at least a sort of holier than thou attitude.. Who, who has lived, really lived, has not made devastating mistakes???

No one who starts at St Jean is a pilgrim, they are all virgins and unless they are already seasoned hikers they haven't a clue. Many decades ago I climbed the mountain St Victoire, outside Aix en Provence in France. You may have seen the Renoir painting? Long long gentle stroll up on one side and vertical on the other? There were three of us and we were young and totally stupid. The girls had walked up the slope to the top and we decided to climb up the easiest path on the vertical side and meet them at the top. We were wearing shorts, t shirts, sneakers (plimsolls), carrying big rucksacks full of wine and picnic items. After some hours we got a bit lost and then saw a number of paths shown on a big metal notice.
We avoided the 'red' path as we thought that might be the most dangerous and chose the 'black' path as it sounded innocuous. It turned out that 'black' path also meant the 'death' path (we found out afterwards that three had died on it in the past two years) and it needed to be done with ropes and hammers and pitons and it wasn't until we were finally on the last section, a high vertical face with a narrow vertical crack in it that we could squeeze our feet into sideways, with our sneakers ripped to shreds that we started to understand that we had made a ghastly mistake.
I was last in line, not a climber, and also scared of heights. About halfway up this vertical face I became truly scared and made the mistake of looking down and became so terrified that I tried to go down - impossible - and became stuck. At that moment, when in my utter terror and with body out of control I froze and then started to lose my grip, a real mountaineer, who had been out of sight, around a curve in the cliff wall, suddenly appeared. Helmet, roped on, hammer, pitons, and he just stared at me in utter shock and then asked if I was ok. Being English, although I was about to fall and obviously had a green pale face I told him I was alright. He told me not to move and called his friends to help him rescue me. Then, above, my pal Phil did a madly stupid thing, he crouched down, stuck his foot sideways into the crack, leaned out and downwards and told me to take his hand. Had I taken his hand I would have pulled him off and we would both have fallen. But the utterly ludicrous bravery of that gave me some courage. Then Michael, the top of us three, who was a climber, called that he had reached the top but it was an overhang but as climbers had been there before all he had to do was to reach up, lean outwards, and throw his arms over and there would be handholds there. He actually believed that! He did that and gained the top. Then my pal did the same. I moved upwards, too scared not to, and as the mountain climber appeared again and told me not to move, that help was coming - I knew that if I did not move I would fall, and my two pals called out that they were both lying down and ready to catch my arms so in utter terror I crawled up as high as I could to the overhang until I was crouching below it, hanging on, and then in an absurd leap of faith leapt upwards and outwards into space with my arms above me and they caught me and pulled me over the top. I should have fallen, of course, I should have died that day, of course I should, but when I started I had no idea how stupid I was being. None of us had any idea how stupid we were.

My point is that we all make mistakes, that the graveyards are full of such people so really, let us be glad they did the right thing - stopped trying to move forward, found shelter, called for assistance, and that we are not offering our condolences to bereaved loved ones.
We all make mistakes, we can all be foolish. All of us. Just saying.

p.s. and I am still terrified of heights
p.p.s. and I am still stupid!

What became of the wine?

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

I cant help but agree that some posters on this thread are extremely judgemental. In some cases inferring that you are “stupid” if you are a pilgrim and make a bad decision. That is judgemental and harsh. It should not take away from the more moderate message of being careful of putting yourself and others at risk. By the way, you take risks daily that do not usually require rescue but that is life, not stupidity.
I spent 35 years on a large urban professional fire department and never once had occasion to hurl insults at victims for bad decisions they made.
In this case I think the intent was NOT to climb the Napoleon and force a rescue.

There is no excuse what so ever for what they did.
When you walk up / over mountains you have to be prepared.
Number one rule is talk to people who know the conditions up the mountain where ever you want to walk the mountains.
And it is "stupid" when you don't do this.

 

[Thornley]

http://www.noticiasdenavarra.com/20...reja-de-peregrinos-en-el-refugio-de-izandorre

I notice the article never use the word Napoleon ,

It is always referred to in most articles / references as " Crossing the Pyrenees to Roncesvalles "
As i have previously said the old bloke on his horse never saw one inch of this foot path.

 

[Aesklepius]

Hi, I've booked my bed at refuge orisson for the 11th of April and paid - I'm hopeful and very much looking forward to it

Buen Camino!!!

 

[grayland]

The discourse has drifted from the original report into a discussion of the posts of other members.
The thread will be closed for now.
It may be reopened if additional information becomes available.