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Two questions

saara kinnunen

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata (Sevilla-Salamanca 2015) Via de la Plata (Salamanca- Santiago de Compostela 2016)
1. If you are allergic to dust or mold, have you had troubles in albergas? How do you describe the air in albergas, is it healthy or unhealthy to sensitive people?
2. If I walk Camino Portuguese via Camino El Spiritual and take the boat from Villanova de Arousa to Padron, do I get the compostela i Santiago?
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
1. I can't definitively answer the first, but I expect it varies from albergue to albergue.
2. People have certainly received their compostelas having taken the "Spritual" variant and the boat. Nevertheless, doing so would technically prevent you from fulfilling the requirements (as the boat transportation is within the last 100 km). It may depend on whom is processing you application for a compostela when you get to the office in Santiago. If getting your compostela is very important to you, I wouldn't take the chance and would walk the entire last 100 km (assuming you are walking, or bike the last 200 km).
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
I had to leave the municipal albergue in Melide for black mold in the dormitory wall. They have renovated since, but mold can be a problem.
 

caminka

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
see signature
1. the air definitely varies from albergue to albergue. it also depends a great deal on the fact if the window(s) are open or closed during the day and the night. it has happened to me that, in big dorms with closed windows, I had to relocate to a sofa in a common room during the night because the air was so foul. (or once to the toilet to puke out my guts, but that was probably also partly due to something I ate for dinner.)
I really don't get people who can sleep with many people in the same room with the windows closed. really not.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Portugués, Francés, Le Puy, Rota Vicentina, Soulac, Norte, Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo
2. If I walk Camino Portuguese via Camino El Spiritual and take the boat from Villanova de Arousa to Padron, do I get the compostela i Santiago?
Hi, yes, you will get your compostela. The Variante Espiritual is officially included, including the boat journey from Vila Nova de Arousa to Pontecesures.
Jill
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 was Camino #14
My biggest problem in an albergue is the perfume and/or perfumed cleaners and laundry products. I don't recall encountering mold, myself.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
Hi, yes, you will get your compostela. The Variante Espiritual is officially included, including the boat journey from Vila Nova de Arousa to Pontecesures.
Jill
Is this put in writing anywhere? It isn't listed on the official website which says "They are required to have travelled at least the last 100 kilometres on foot or horseback or the last 200 by bicycle, which is demonstrated by the “Credencial del Peregrino” duly stamped along the route travelled. Therefore other forms of travel to access the Compostela are excluded, except in the case of the disabled." They don't list an exception for the Variante Espiritual. And I seem to remember others who volunteer at the Pilgrim Office in SdC saying that it wouldn't officially qualify. It would be nice to give Saara something official to point to if the volunteer she gets that day is only aware of the base rules.
 

november_moon

Veteran Member
I am sensitive to mold, pollution, strong scents, etc. and haven't run into any issues due to those things in alberques. I walked in the summer time, so windows seemed to be open more, which probably helped.

Now, I did have problems with germs - I caught the Camino Cough and also came down with some kind of stomach bug that a lot of people were getting when I walked.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Portugués, Francés, Le Puy, Rota Vicentina, Soulac, Norte, Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo
Is this put in writing anywhere? It isn't listed on the official website which says "They are required to have travelled at least the last 100 kilometres on foot or horseback or the last 200 by bicycle, which is demonstrated by the “Credencial del Peregrino” duly stamped along the route travelled. Therefore other forms of travel to access the Compostela are excluded, except in the case of the disabled." They don't list an exception for the Variante Espiritual. And I seem to remember others who volunteer at the Pilgrim Office in SdC saying that it wouldn't officially qualify. It would be nice to give Saara something official to point to if the volunteer she gets that day is only aware of the base rules.
Hi, Johnnie Walker mentioned it in this thread:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/variante-espiritual-from-this-weekend.34816/
See posts 71 and 78.
Jill
 

TaraWalks

Peregrina without a skateboard
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2016 & 2018, planning for Le Puy 2019/2020ish and for some shorter Caminos stacked
Im a pretty severe asthmatic with dust and mould allergies. I walked in high summer and had no issues, however I made sure I took my preventer every day and had my reliever on hand. Barely had to use it as my asthma is well controlled.
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
Is this put in writing anywhere? It isn't listed on the official website which says "They are required to have travelled at least the last 100 kilometres on foot or horseback or the last 200 by bicycle, which is demonstrated by the “Credencial del Peregrino” duly stamped along the route travelled. Therefore other forms of travel to access the Compostela are excluded, except in the case of the disabled." They don't list an exception for the Variante Espiritual.
I no longer assume or expect the cathedral's Compostela rules to be based upon any simple logic or that they will be applied with even a semblance of consistency. In another thread some time ago it was explained that those who use electric-powered bikes for at least 200km can receive a Compostela while those who use petrol-powered transport in the final 100km of a Camino are disqualified. What difference does the power source of a motor make? If practical walking routes exist and people choose to bypass part of the route by using a motor boat how is that different in essence from skipping stages of another Camino by bus or taxi? Personally I feel that the introduction of the "100 km rule" was a mistake which has undermined the spiritual character of the pilgrimage. Ideally I would like to see it abandoned completely. Unlikely to happen with so many vested interests involved. But if there is to be such a rule then it should at least be applied logically and consistently.
 
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David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
Hi, Johnnie Walker mentioned it in this thread:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/variante-espiritual-from-this-weekend.34816/
See posts 71 and 78.
Jill
That's great! I just wish he mentioned where the Pilgrim Office has "now clarified that this variant is an exception and that pilgrims who use a boat for some of it will still qualify if they started in Vigo or Porinno and therefore overall will have walked more than 100 kms to Santiago." I couldn't find it on their website. If a pilgrim gets to the Office and is told that they haven't met the requirements because they haven't walked the last 100 km, I'd like to give them a little more to respond with than "I read Johnnie Walker say that the Pilgrim Office said". Until I get a little more than that, I won't be advising anyone for whom the compostela is very important to take the boat.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
I no longer assume or expect the cathedral's Compostela's rules to be based upon any simple logic or that they will be applied with even a semblance of consistency.
Nor do I. Hearing that if someone walked all the way from Le Puy, but used a foot powered bicycle for 20 of the last 100 km they wouldn't qualify threw me for a loop. (They would neither have walked the entirety of the last 100 km nor biked the entirety of the last 200 km.) But given that lack of consistency, I tend to advise people to err on the side of caution if the compostela is important to them, and not count on the volunteer seeing things their way, or the way that someone has reported another volunteer seeing things.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Portugués, Francés, Le Puy, Rota Vicentina, Soulac, Norte, Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo
I just wish he mentioned where the Pilgrim Office has "now clarified that this variant is an exception and that pilgrims who use a boat for some of it will still qualify if they started in Vigo or Porinno and therefore overall will have walked more than 100 kms to Santiago."
Yes, I agree, it would be good to get the official view from the pilgrim’s office. 12 of us queued up for our compostelas this September, after walking from Porto via the Variante Espiritual, so we all went to the different volunteers at the different counters, and we all got our compostelas. I was honoured to receive mine from @Jeff Crawley - perhaps he could chip in here and give us the official view.
Jill
 

saara kinnunen

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata (Sevilla-Salamanca 2015) Via de la Plata (Salamanca- Santiago de Compostela 2016)
Yes, I agree, it would be good to get the official view from the pilgrim’s office. 12 of us queued up for our compostelas this September, after walking from Porto via the Variante Espiritual, so we all went to the different volunteers at the different counters, and we all got our compostelas. I was honoured to receive mine from @Jeff Crawley - perhaps he could chip in here and give us the official view.
Jill
Dear Jill. Did you walk all the way or use the boat from Vila Nova de Arousa to Pontecesures.?
Saara
 

saara kinnunen

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata (Sevilla-Salamanca 2015) Via de la Plata (Salamanca- Santiago de Compostela 2016)
Thank you all for the information concerning the air in albergas. I am relieved.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
Is this put in writing anywhere? It isn't listed on the official website which says "They are required to have travelled at least the last 100 kilometres on foot or horseback or the last 200 by bicycle, which is demonstrated by the “Credencial del Peregrino” duly stamped along the route travelled. Therefore other forms of travel to access the Compostela are excluded, except in the case of the disabled." They don't list an exception for the Variante Espiritual. And I seem to remember others who volunteer at the Pilgrim Office in SdC saying that it wouldn't officially qualify. It would be nice to give Saara something official to point to if the volunteer she gets that day is only aware of the base rules.
The actual route traveled is not as relevant as the distance traveled, in a more or less continuous line from somewhere, INTO Santiago de Compostela. So, you could literally start anywhere that was at least 100 km out from Santiago and be eligible for a Compostela.

The KEY thing is to carefully document that sequential and chronological progression and movement towards Santiago de Compostela with AT LEAST two sellos (rubber stamps) daily. More are better, especially if you are traveling the route or road less traveled.

However, there is NO specific requirement to have walked on any recognized route. This is why the variants on the Portuguese Camino are perfectly acceptable. It is the minimum distance that is critical, not the starting place, per se.

As another example, this May, I hope to do what I am terming the Camino Primitivo "Mixto.' My plan is to start at Oviedo, walk the Primitivo to Lugo then hang a right just beyond the bridge outside of Lugo to follow a "Greenway" hiking path. These are rural paths or roads marked with green arrows. A two days' walk leads on to a left turn, joining the Camino del Norte at Sobrado. From there, I plan to navigate to join the main Camino Frances route at about Lavacolla. This is the last night before entering Santiago.

The main Primitivo route joins the Frances at Melide, four days out from Santiago. My intention, as was last year taking the Invierno, is to find viable alternatives to dealing with the Camino Frances, to the extent possible, especially during the main pilgrimage season. As we approach the next Holy Year in 2021, these detours will help reduce overcrowding on the Frances and reduce anxiety for repeat pilgrims.

Hope this helps.
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
The actual route traveled is not as relevant as the distance traveled, in a more or less continuous line from somewhere, INTO Santiago de Compostela. So, you could literally start anywhere that was at least 100 km out from Santiago and be eligible for a Compostela.
However, there is NO specific requirement to have walked on any recognized route. This is why the variants on the Portuguese Camino are perfectly acceptable. It is the minimum distance that is critical, not the starting place, per se.
In November I walked from San Andres de Teixido to Santiago. When I visited the pilgrim office to record my pilgrimage and ask for a Compostela I was told that it is now a requirement that the final 100km is on an officially recognised Camino. A volunteer later showed me a recent version of the Credencial which states this explicitly. Since my route joined the Camino Ingles at Neda I had technically qualified as my last 102km was on an official Camino. However my Camino would have been recorded as having started at Neda, not San Andres de Teixido. I decided that as this would be at best a half-truth then I would rather do without a Compostela for that journey. The cathedral's conditions for receiving a Compostela are growing steadily more restrictive.

PS. The pilgrim office volunteer I spoke with told me that this rule now applies even to local Galicians who now have to walk at least the final 100km on an official Camino. So for example someone living 80km from Santiago will now have to travel AWAY from Santiago and then change direction if they wish to receive a Compostela. An absurd situation.
45677022_10217575648925302_8916095452135292928_o.jpg
 
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t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
In that case, I stand corrected. While I volunteer at the office each year, I have not been doing Compostelas...yet. I regret any inconvenience my earlier statement may make.

That said, I just reviewed the rules posted on the Pilgrim Office website:

https://oficinadelperegrino.com/en/pilgrimage/the-credencial/

I did not see any specific reference to the 100 Km distance being only on an recognized route. I checked both the. Also, I have several credentials, the Cathedral issued version. None of them, going back two years, have the provision that is in your photo. It starts: "Las últimos 100 kilómetros deberán realizarse..."

So, I conclude that the change was made very recently. No one has yet thought to update the web site, they should, and I wish someone from the Cathedral or Pilgrim Office would tell Ivar, so he can report authoritatively. I do NOT doubt your statements, and the photo does tend to speak for itself. It is just that this is a sensitive subject and one that must be reported authoritatively, lest people develop unrealistic or inaccurate perceptions.

But, I do know that, in general, the reasons for the rules becoming more restrictive is the ongoing 'cat and mouse' game between the growing number of slackers who seem to make a game out of trying to cheat the system to gain a Compostela through any means possible, and the staff, trying to maintain some sense of order and tradition. It is indeed regrettable. When I am there each summer, I see just about every manner of cheating possible. It is depressing.

My statement was based on my previous experiences. I will reconfirm my understanding and adjust where needed.

Thanks for the correction.
 
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David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
The actual route traveled is not as relevant as the distance traveled, in a more or less continuous line from somewhere, INTO Santiago de Compostela. So, you could literally start anywhere that was at least 100 km out from Santiago and be eligible for a Compostela.

The KEY thing is to carefully document that sequential and chronological progression and movement towards Santiago de Compostela with AT LEAST two sellos (rubber stamps) daily. More are better, especially if you are traveling the route or road less traveled.

However, there is NO specific requirement to have walked on any recognized route. This is why the variants on the Portuguese Camino are perfectly acceptable. It is the minimum distance that is critical, not the starting place, per se.

As another example, this May, I hope to do what I am terming the Camino Primitivo "Mixto.' My plan is to start at Oviedo, walk the Primitivo to Lugo then hang a right just beyond the bridge outside of Lugo to follow a "Greenway" hiking path. These are rural paths or roads marked with green arrows. A two days' walk leads on to a left turn, joining the Camino del Norte at Sobrado. From there, I plan to navigate to join the main Camino Frances route at about Lavacolla. This is the last night before entering Santiago.

The main Primitivo route joins the Frances at Melide, four days out from Santiago. My intention, as was last year taking the Invierno, is to find viable alternatives to dealing with the Camino Frances, to the extent possible, especially during the main pilgrimage season. As we approach the next Holy Year in 2021, these detours will help reduce overcrowding on the Frances and reduce anxiety for repeat pilgrims.

Hope this helps.
I understand that you can walk any route. The key word there, however, is walk. People are talking about taking a powered boat, and not just to cross a river but for a number of kilometers. This would be within the last 100 km. It seemed to me that this would break the rules, just as taking a taxi would, unless there was an official exception for it. I've heard that there is, but haven't seen it documented anywhere official.

It is not walking an alternate route that I worry might prevent someone from getting a Compostela who really wanted one, but boating on an alternate route within 100 km of SdC. Your examples don't really address this.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Portugués, Francés, Le Puy, Rota Vicentina, Soulac, Norte, Madrid, Salvador, Primitivo
Dear Jill. Did you walk all the way or use the boat from Vila Nova de Arousa to Pontecesures.?
Saara
Hi Saara, we all took the boat. There were many of us – about 40 altogether – so they put on a big boat. Very, very few people walk from Vila Nova de Arousa to Padrón. The whole point of doing the Variante Espiritual is to sail up the same river that the body of St James is supposedly to have sailed. Padrón is so named because you can see the original mooring stone, that was used to tie up the boat, under the altar in the church of Santiago in the centre of Padrón.
Jill
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
I understand that you can walk any route. The key word there, however, is walk. People are talking about taking a powered boat, and not just to cross a river but for a number of kilometers. This would be within the last 100 km. It seemed to me that this would break the rules, just as taking a taxi would, unless there was an official exception for it. I've heard that there is, but haven't seen it documented anywhere official.

It is not walking an alternate route that I worry might prevent someone from getting a Compostela who really wanted one, but boating on an alternate route within 100 km of SdC. Your examples don't really address this.
I just edited my OP to emphasize heavily and pointedly that one must walk the final Km.

Hope this helps.
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
So, I conclude that the change was made very recently. No one has yet thought to update the web site, they should, and I wish someone from the Cathedral or Pilgrim Office would tell Ivar, so he can report authoritatively. I do NOT doubt your statements, and the photo does tend to speak for itself. It is just that this is a sensitive subject and one that must be reported authoritatively, lest people develop unrealistic or inaccurate perceptions.
I was very surprised to learn of this new policy which was not mentioned on the version of the Credencial which I had received from Ivar only a few weeks before. When I posted about my visit to the pilgrim office on a Facebook group that same day one of the volunteers working there replied that I had failed to read and understand the Compostela rules which are clearly printed on the credencial. She posted the photo I attached above as evidence. Obviously this is a different credencial from any I have seen before. If someone like @t2andreo who serves as a pilgrim office volunteer is not aware of this requirement then I think that is strong evidence that this new rule is not being adequately published and explained.
 
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t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
The change likely happened in the past several months. I was last working there in mid-August 2018. This is the first I am hearing about this change. The credencials are printed in HUGE runs, like into six figures to keep the unit costs down. They do rotate the credential stock.

The Pilgrim Office at Santiago also supplies case quantities (1700 each case) to groups, churches, pilgrim offices, and associations all over Spain and across most of Europe. The cost is negotiated between the P/O and these groups. This is how Ivar purchases his supply.

The point is, I suppose, that older versions of the credential, with the older, arguably incomplete statement about the final 100 km having to be on an established route, will be in circulation until used. Pilgrims ought not rely SOLELY on the credential for this reason. Just sayin...

Based on everything I am reading in this thread. I would make a rational argument to do one's Camino according to the most restrictive reading of the available information. In this case, that means making sure the FINAL 100 Km of your Camino into Santiago is on one of the recognized routes.

What are the recognized routes you might reasonably ask? My reasonable answer is that, if there are published guidebooks for the route, the Pilgrim Office likely has the corresponding mileage tables in their computer system, and they can confirm distances walked from sello to sello, from day to day...

Hence, a recognized route has one or more guidebooks. Makes logical sense to me...

Failing this reasonable conclusion, we wait until the Pilgrim Office, in its' wisdom, feels it appropriate to list the recognized routes on its website, or in a later version of the credencial.

'Caveat emptor' again folks...

Hope this helps.
 
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Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
Based on everything I am reading in this thread. I would make a rational argument to do one's Camino according to the most restrictive reading of the available information. In this case, that means making sure the FINAL 100 Km of your Camino into Santiago is on one of the recognized routes.
Sound advice if receiving a Compostela is important to you. Personally I do not want to have my options limited by increasingly narrow and apparently arbitrary rules and definitions. In future I will probably continue to make my way to the tomb of the Apostle by whatever route feels right at the time without adding to the ever-growing workload of the pilgrim office.
 

Gail Dickson

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances April 2016
Portugese from Lisbon 2018
Via Francigena (2020)
1. If you are allergic to dust or mold, have you had troubles in albergas? How do you describe the air in albergas, is it healthy or unhealthy to sensitive people?
2. If I walk Camino Portuguese via Camino El Spiritual and take the boat from Villanova de Arousa to Padron, do I get the compostela i Santiago?
3 of us did the Variante in Appril. We took the boat. It is a beautiful route. We all have Compostelas.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
There are printed guides to the variant. IIRC, it is included in the CSJ Guide to the Camino Portugués. Also, I believe the last revision of the Brierley CP Guide also contained material about the Spiritual Variant.

This is the point I was making above. If there is a guide, somewhere, there is the possibility of a Compostela...

Hope this helps.
 

Linda Fantillo

RiverWalker
Camino(s) past & future
September/October 14, May 17, September 18
1. If you are allergic to dust or mold, have you had troubles in albergas? How do you describe the air in albergas, is it healthy or unhealthy to sensitive people?
2. If I walk Camino Portuguese via Camino El Spiritual and take the boat from Villanova de Arousa to Padron, do I get the compostela i Santiago?
Hi Saara,

Can't comment on the boat question, but as far as dust and mold - I am ok with dust but VERY allergic to mold. I have done three Caminos and only once have I asked to move from a section in an albergue due to mold. One never knows for sure, but so far so good. Churches though are a different matter - put my nose in the door and if I smell mold, I will not be entering. Good Luck.
 

Jacobus

Pilgrim since 2008
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2008 09 14
Del Norte 2011. Portuguese 2015, 2017Ingles 2015 Fisterre 2015.
1. If you are allergic to dust or mold, have you had troubles in albergas? How do you describe the air in albergas, is it healthy or unhealthy to sensitive people?
2. If I walk Camino Portuguese via Camino El Spiritual and take the boat from Villanova de Arousa to Padron, do I get the compostela i Santiago?
Good morning
Your first question is dependant on which camino you are doing and which albergue you are staying in. Air quality across the board also depends on air movement systems (AC or Heat) and the presence of opening windows.

I received the campostella after doing the Espiritual. I fully disclosed my route at the Cathedral but I never saw anything in writing giving me a “right” to the document. It should be noted that your pilgrim passport will disclose your route and it is usually checked by the volunteers for the last 100 k
 
Camino(s) past & future
Leon - Santiago (2015); Ingles (2016); Baiona - Santiago (2018)
"But, I do know that, in general, the reasons for the rules becoming more restrictive is the ongoing 'cat and mouse' game between the growing number of slackers who seem to make a game out of trying to cheat the system to gain a Compostela through any means possible, and the staff, trying to maintain some sense of order and tradition. It is indeed regrettable. When I am there each summer, I see just about every manner of cheating possible. It is depressing. "

I admit, I'm utterly fascinated by this. Why cheat? It's like cheating at solitaire. You're only cheating yourself, right?
 

HADeWet

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Primitivo September 2018
Santiago to Muxia and Finisterre September 2018.
1. the air definitely varies from albergue to albergue. it also depends a great deal on the fact if the window(s) are open or closed during the day and the night. it has happened to me that, in big dorms with closed windows, I had to relocate to a sofa in a common room during the night because the air was so foul. (or once to the toilet to puke out my guts, but that was probably also partly due to something I ate for dinner.)
I really don't get people who can sleep with many people in the same room with the windows closed. really not.
Agree. Please pilgrims, ooen the eindows at night. It is safe to do so.
 

Thornley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances [08 ]Portuguese [09 ]Le Puy[10] Norte[ 11] Madrid [12] Figeac - Pamplona [13] Mont Saint Michel - Bordeaux / St Palais - Pamplona [14] Moissac -Burgos [15] , Norte to Oviedo and then Primitivo [16]
Le Puy to Moissac and Dax to Santo Domingo
if receiving a Compostela is important to you
Not that important any longer
to the ever-growing workload of the pilgrim office.
Keep it simple rule gone ...and office is like a Govt department
he introduction of the "100 km rule" was a mistake which has undermined the spiritual character of the pilgrimage. Ideally I would like to see it abandoned completely. Unlikely to happen with so many vested interests involved.
10000000% correct
We met Bishops when walking from Le Puy who were going to SDC to request a 200km commencement but they all knew the POWERS to be would overrule them and somewhere in that afternoon in a bar in Ostabat one with a sense of humour mentioned Padron being the original cathedral ....we all laughed and had more coffee , beer and / or red wine .....except the one who said it.
 

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