Usage of "Camino de Santiago" (Yikes!)

[stratophile]

Hi everyone,

I'm hoping someone here can assist me with the weirdest problem I've encountered in many, many years.

Google, in its infinite wisdom, has advised me that the term "Camino de Santiago" is a copyrighted term that cannot be used by me without the express permission of its owner....

OK. That is idiotic, of course. And in Google's defense, it is a specific app reviewer at Google that has decided the term is not in the public domain. The rest of Google may or may not be in agreement. For the sake of Ivar (given his URL...) hopefully the rest of Google is a little more sensible!

But it is still causing me a huge problem. Google puts the onus on me to provide formal documentation that I have rights to the term. I'm filing an appeal with Google but I suspect that if I just say "Try searching on Google, you idiot!" it might not work.

There are hundreds of apps in Google Play with the term in their name or description. I just checked and a search in Google Books for "Camino de Santiago" returns 1,320,000 results... But neither is actual proof that I have rights to the term (maybe every other author is *wrong* and using it illegally... <sigh>).

One basis for the appeal, though, that might work is this: if I can show the term is ancient, then clearly it isn't covered by copyright. With that in mind, can anyone point me towards any authoritative historical document demonstrating usage going back hundreds of years?

Alternatively, does anyone have any suggestions on how I can demonstrate that this term is in the public domain?

Ivar: if I go down, I'm taking you with me, pal!

 

[Robo]

Can you 'escalate' the matter within Google to a Supervisor/Manager? The might see sense.

 

[stratophile]

The only option is to file a formal appeal. It doesn't help that they put the onus on me to prove I have legal rights to use the term ("If your app was rejected or removed due to unauthorized use of a third party’s content, please provide a document that proves you have the rights to use the content in your app."). The rejection explicitly refers to my use of "Camino de Santiago". Of course, they don't say who this 'third party' is that supposedly owns the term.

Despite my obvious frustration, I'm sure it is a simple mistake ("Hmmm, that sounds like a proper name which means it must be owned by a third party..."). But fixing the implications of that person's mistake isn't so simple. And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that such an appeal process is not lightning fast. My goal, therefore, is to make it extremely obvious that this is a huge, silly mistake so that whoever is next in the chain of people that would see an appeal application just deals with it on the spot. Hence, I hope to find some documentation proving the term is ancient. So far, though, I haven't come up with anything. Frustrating!

 

[stratophile]

Hi Kathar1na - Thanks. Those are good points. I'm compiling a long list of arguments in the hope that I can conclusively show that the phrase is and has always been in generic use. The bank name you mentioned, for example, would be protected still because of it being trademarked. I've run a trademark check through the USPTO database and "Camino de Santiago" isn't trademarked -- though to my surprise there *had* been two failed attempts to trademark it in the past!

Oh well. I'll file the appeal and see what happens. Hopefully it doesn't end up being a long, drawn-out thing.

 

[CdnDreamer]

Can you mention that it is a UNESCO world heritage site? It is the name of a place. The Canadian government website about copyright mentions that a copyright protects literary, dramatic, musical and artistic works. Does Google not tell you who complained about your "copyright infringement"?

 

[jmcarp]

Hmmm, it sounds like the term was kidnapped by someone looking to make a fast buck. It happens all the time on the internet when individuals who have no association with a particular product, service, event, etc. register a domain name for a something, then sell it the obvious rightful owner for an outrageous amount.

 

[stratophile]

Can you mention that it is a UNESCO world heritage site?

Yep - I used that. And regrettably, Google doesn't say who claims ownership (or, indeed, if *anyone* has claimed ownership -- it could simply be a case of the reviewer mistakenly assuming it is a protected term).

it sounds like the term was kidnapped by someone looking to make a fast buck

That could be the case, though there is an awfully large amount of evidence of it being in undefended generic use - seems like a bad choice for a kidnapping. To retain a trademark its owner must actively defend it from becoming generically used (that's why the friendly folks at Kimberly-Clark will send you a stern letter if you use "Pass me a kleenex" in your latest novel, using the lower-case 'k').

On the positive side, several people with first-hand experience going through the appeal process tell me that it is usually quick and each of them had a positive outcome. So, we'll see.

On the flip side, even though we all take "Camino de Santiago" for granted and it is obviously a generic term, who knows... Maybe soon Ivar will have to rename his URL to 'www.walktothatcitynexttomontedogozo.me". Weirder things have happened, I suppose. Can you imagine the chaos and outrage? It'd be almost like United kicked off another passenger!

 

[natefaith]

Wow. Hope it all works out @stratophile! You're right - strange problem indeed, and kind of stressful!
Keep us posted and take care,
Faith

 

[stratophile]

Thanks, Faith. It'll work out somehow or other.

 

[stratophile]

Hi Kathar1na - I hadn't looked at EUIPO -- I feel silly overlooking it. I've already filed the appeal, but I will keep that one in mind in case I need to appeal the appeal. Thanks!

When I first got the notice, I thought it was about the logo itself (ie the artwork) but then realized it was specifically the phrase. A claim against the artwork would have been more sensible -- there are many ways to inadvertantly infringe on a specific expression of an idea.

In my appeal, I focused on the breadth of its generic usage, including examples by the Catholic church, various governments, books / movies, media, UNESCO, etc., plus the lack of any filing in USPTO. It's a waiting game now. We'll have to see how they rule on the appeal.

 

[William Garza]

Some summers ago..some enterprising and malicious person copyrighted a clubs name in Ibiza...the actual owner appeared,appealed and lost to the "owner" on the name....it's not the only time or place it's happened and that where people have been sent to the solicitors and put to task .
Not saying that's what happened, but there it is

 

[stratophile]

True. There are some nasty people out there. And some dumb laws that enable them.

 

[Jacobus]

Stop using google????

 

[stratophile]

@Jacobus Alas, over half of all smartphones are Android devices and Google Play is the main app store for users of those devices.

 

[stratophile]

Hi everyone -- just a quick update to let everyone know that my appeal was successful. Issue resolved! My thanks to everyone here for feedback / ideas on this.

 

[LavanyaLea]

Bringing back old thread here! I'm having similar issue with Amazon, I think it's just an overzealous automatic trademark search, like an automatic plagiarism search.

Interestingly, who had (past tense) the trademark for "camino de santiago"? A wine merchant!

CAMINO DE SANTIAGO Trademark of Fine Estates From Spain, Inc.. Serial Number: 85475818 :: Trademark Elite Trademarks

TrademarkElite is the U.S. #1 Trademark Search and Registration Service :: CAMINO DE SANTIAGO is a trademark and brand of Fine Estates From Spain, Inc., Dedham, MA . This trademark application was filed with the USPTO (United States Patent and Trademark Office) under the trademark...

www.trademarkelite.com

On Thursday, November 17, 2011, Fine Estates From Spain, Inc. filed a U.S. Federal trademark application for CAMINO DE SANTIAGO trademark. Fine Estates From Spain, Inc. is located in Dedham, MA .

On Monday, December 7, 2015, the status for the CAMINO DE SANTIAGO trademark changes to Abandoned - No Statement of Use filed​

A quick search for "camino de santiago" on amazon returned over 4000 results and all the books on page 1 use the phrase "camino de santiago", so we'll see.