A donation to the forum removes ads for you, and supports Ivar in his work running it

Advertisement

Luggage Transfer Correos

Walking "feels like" factor?

2020 Camino Guides

Peligro

I walk between cafe breaks
Camino(s) past & future
St. Jean to SdC the slow way (Aug'15, Aug'17, Jan'18, Aug'18, Jan'19, Jul'19) Finisterre (TBD)
Here's an impossible question to answer so feel free to guess without any scientific basis. Averaging the Frances and the Primitivo (not every day is Meseta nor is every day O'Cebreiro) how many kilometers on the Primitivo would you say feels like 30 kilometers on the Frances? I'm asking for a weird comparison, but I've got a good sense of how a 30 km day on the Frances feels and my body doesn't like me pushing it much beyond that. If you think this is a rediculous question hopefully it at least amuses you. :)
 

Anamya

Keeping it simple
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015)
Portugues (2017)
Lebaniego (2019)
Ohhh, despite subjective, that is an interesting question I will follow, as I'm interested in walking the Primitivo in the future :) (God knows when, but it will happen)

I can say that, personally, 15-18km on the Lebaniego felt like 22-25km on the Frances. It was tough for my standards.
On the other hand, the Portuguese and Frances felt pretty much the same to me.

Curious to see other people's ratios!
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2017)
Camino Frances (2018)
Camino Ingles (2019)
Brierley attempts to do sort of what you are talking about. He tries to effect a formula that incorporates the uphills and downhills into calculations of distance. Sort of like for every kilometer going uphill on a 12% grade, equals 1.5 kilometers walking on the flat. Or something like that :)
 

MichaelC

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Aug 2017: Le Puy to Santiago
Nov 2018: Kumano Kodo (partial)
2021: ?
I'd love to see this type of comparison for other caminos too! I don't know the Primitivo, but for Le Puy route and the Frances there was about a 5km / day difference for me. Very roughly:

A super easy day: 15 km on the Le Puy route, 20 km on the Frances.
A regular day: 20-25 km on Le Puy, 25-30 km on the Frances
A hard day: Over 25 / Over 30
 

Levi

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2015
VDLP 2016
Portuguese March 2017
Sanabres September 2017
Madrid September 2018
It's just so subjective. I walked the Primitivo three weeks ago. I've done several other Caminos including the Frances and the Via de is Plata. For me, the Primitivo was definitely the most physically demanding because of the pretty much constant ascents and descents.

My internal thoughts while walking often went along the lines of " not another climb...this is killing me...I'm never ever doing this again...look at that view...that's amazing...god, not another climb....I thought I was at the top...

Now that I'm home the pain has receded but the gorgeous views and memories are still with me, and I find myself thinking that maybe I would walk it again.

And I think that if you can walk 30k on the Frances then you can walk the Primitivo on shorter daily stages. Demanding but definitely worth it.
 

MikeJS

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francis (2011), Norte (12), VdlP (16). Sureste/Invierno (17). Olvidado/San Salvador/Primitivo (19)
Just finished the Primitivo and it was relatively simple compared to the San Salvador and Olvidado. However, I did not feel there were any particular hard long climbs. Just a few short ones that take that extra bit of effort. If you walked the Frances you can walk the Primitivo. However, unless you are fit at the start it may be better to do a week before to get the camino legs working!
 

lt56ny

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF2012,Le Puy/CF 2015 Portugues 2017 Norte 2018, CF 2019
It's just so subjective. I walked the Primitivo three weeks ago. I've done several other Caminos including the Frances and the Via de is Plata. For me, the Primitivo was definitely the most physically demanding because of the pretty much constant ascents and descents.

My internal thoughts while walking often went along the lines of " not another climb...this is killing me...I'm never ever doing this again...look at that view...that's amazing...god, not another climb....I thought I was at the top...

Now that I'm home the pain has receded but the gorgeous views and memories are still with me, and I find myself thinking that maybe I would walk it again.

And I think that if you can walk 30k on the Frances then you can walk the Primitivo on shorter daily stages. Demanding but definitely worth it.
Exactly how I thought when I walked the Norte last year!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Norte (2010j, Primitivo (2013), Plata (2014 + 2015), Salvador (2016), Torres 2017), Portugues (2018
Well, I walked the Primitivo a few years ago and then the Salvador and do not particularly remember the ups or downs, but rather the views!

However maybe in this thread I can find the answer to a question which comes up whenever I walk another camino. Many years ago I had heard that in mountaineering circles they say for every 100 m height difference you add another km of effort to the distance you have walked. Whereupon my friends ask: Surely going down is less of an effort than going up? For me going up is always difficult. But going down steeply is also difficult and a great effort!

So for many caminos I have only considered uphill when calculating the km I have walked.

Does anybody know and have an explanation?
 

hughb

Member
Camino(s) past & future
C del Norte June 2013 plus Finisterre.
Part of Camino del Norte July 2015
Hopefully the Camino Ingles 2016
Here's an impossible question to answer so feel free to guess without any scientific basis. Averaging the Frances and the Primitivo (not every day is Meseta nor is every day O'Cebreiro) how many kilometers on the Primitivo would you say feels like 30 kilometers on the Frances? I'm asking for a weird comparison, but I've got a good sense of how a 30 km day on the Frances feels and my body doesn't like me pushing it much beyond that. If you think this is a rediculous question hopefully it at least amuses you. :)
you could simply use Naismiths rule. Used by many people on expeditions.

For every 5kms on the flat allow 1 hour, then for every 600 metres of ascent or 600 metres of severe descent add an hour. Hope that helps and makes sense.

I was in the area earlier this year and some of the climbs looked extremely severe to put it mildly. However, that is still my next camino.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
you could simply use Naismiths rule. Used by many people on expeditions.
Naismith's rule has an article in Wikipedia. The article also briefly describes some corrections to it. One involves increasing time to walk down very steep hills. I've seen other webpages on this stuff but Wikipedia has a good simple one. It doesn't describe the method that Brierley uses but since we are talking approximations we don't know who is right anyway. Brierley describes his method in the introductory material of his guide.
 

GuyA

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobi 13, Gebennensis 13, Le Puy 13, Frances 14, Finisterre 14, Kumano Kodo 15, Portuguese 18
Here's an impossible question to answer so feel free to guess without any scientific basis. Averaging the Frances and the Primitivo (not every day is Meseta nor is every day O'Cebreiro) how many kilometers on the Primitivo would you say feels like 30 kilometers on the Frances? I'm asking for a weird comparison, but I've got a good sense of how a 30 km day on the Frances feels and my body doesn't like me pushing it much beyond that. If you think this is a rediculous question hopefully it at least amuses you. :)
An interesting question and one that I have been asking myself as I plan on walking the Camino Primitivo in 2020. As mentioned there is a formula called the Naismith's rule that attempts to factor in elevation gains/losses and adjusts your pace accordingly.

I have not tested this out in any way however I did map out the Camino Primitivo and Camino Frances using the elevation gains/losses in the Buen Camino app. Attached is a quick spreadsheet outlining the stages in the Buen Camino app for the Camino Primitivo and the stages that I walked in 2014 on the Camino Frances.

A very brief summary of what the Naismith's rule adjustment...

Camino Frances

Using a pace of 4.5 km per hour on flat ground the adjustment for the entire route results in a 3.7 km per hour pace. Over the 27 days that I walked this route the average daily km would be 28.8 km and a daily ascent of 515 meters and descent of 502 meters.

Camino Primitivo

Using a pace of 4.5 km per hour on flat ground the adjustment for the entire route results in a 3.4 km per hour pace or a decrease of about 8%. Adjusting the 28.8 kms walked for the Camino Frances results in a lower daily walk of 26.5 kms.

Over 13 days one would walk 23.8 kms a day and a daily ascent of 715 meters and a descent of 707 meters...so let me see 6 years older...hmm should be possible...but...well here's hoping :)

Who knows if this approximation will pan out...so many factors involved over a long walk. For sure Camino Primitivo will be a slower walk...and that is perfectly ok with me!

Guy

p.s. I am not able to attach an Excel file so if anyone knows how to do this please let me know or if you want to see the file I could send it directly to you
 

Peligro

I walk between cafe breaks
Camino(s) past & future
St. Jean to SdC the slow way (Aug'15, Aug'17, Jan'18, Aug'18, Jan'19, Jul'19) Finisterre (TBD)
Camino Frances

Using a pace of 4.5 km per hour on flat ground the adjustment for the entire route results in a 3.7 km per hour pace. Over the 27 days that I walked this route the average daily km would be 28.8 km and a daily ascent of 515 meters and descent of 502 meters.

Camino Primitivo

Using a pace of 4.5 km per hour on flat ground the adjustment for the entire route results in a 3.4 km per hour pace or a decrease of about 8%. Adjusting the 28.8 kms walked for the Camino Frances results in a lower daily walk of 26.5 kms.

Over 13 days one would walk 23.8 kms a day and a daily ascent of 715 meters and a descent of 707 meters...so let me see 6 years older...hmm should be possible...but...well here's hoping :)
This is fantastic - I don't care if it's accurate or not ;) I'm adopting your calculations. I got a kick out of the 6 years older factor you mentioned.

My biggest take away is that while going with the flow I'm likely to find a desirable place to stop after about 20 to 25 km and not further. For the first time ever I'll have more than enough days to spend on the Camino!!!
 

GuyA

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Jacobi 13, Gebennensis 13, Le Puy 13, Frances 14, Finisterre 14, Kumano Kodo 15, Portuguese 18
Too many variables to be accurate.....
Agreed it's very subjective using a rule like Naismith's and there are so many many variables however for high level planning only...why not? It's fun to plan and then see how far off on is!

So many variables...heat, fatigue, trail conditions (cobblestones, hot asphalt, tree roots after a rainstorm on a steep descent, beautiful forest path, bushwalking or something like it), lack of sleep due to snoring, great news from home, sad news from home, rain and more rain, brilliant sunshine and the company of a fellow pilgrim who becomes a new friend and time just flies, wind, injuries, meeting a massive cow blocking the trail in Switzerland, a scary cow on the The Puy route with bloody scary horns and taking a short cut and falling in a manure patch and then accidentally touching an electrified fence etc. etc. etc. Oh and did I mention age...I could easily do this at 30 when I ran a few marathons...now at 62 could I even walk a half marathon? And the big one getting lost again and again on less traveled Camino routes...wandering around aimlessly and chewing up the km's?

Anyway that's the fun and challenge of walking Camino's...so many variables...nothing is predictable and the enjoyment of simply walking can't be beat. Looking forward to a new adventure on the Camino Primitive!

Guy
 

hughb

Member
Camino(s) past & future
C del Norte June 2013 plus Finisterre.
Part of Camino del Norte July 2015
Hopefully the Camino Ingles 2016
Agreed it's very subjective using a rule like Naismith's and there are so many many variables however for high level planning only...why not? It's fun to plan and then see how far off on is!

So many variables...heat, fatigue, trail conditions (cobblestones, hot asphalt, tree roots after a rainstorm on a steep descent, beautiful forest path, bushwalking or something like it), lack of sleep due to snoring, great news from home, sad news from home, rain and more rain, brilliant sunshine and the company of a fellow pilgrim who becomes a new friend and time just flies, wind, injuries, meeting a massive cow blocking the trail in Switzerland, a scary cow on the The Puy route with bloody scary horns and taking a short cut and falling in a manure patch and then accidentally touching an electrified fence etc. etc. etc. Oh and did I mention age...I could easily do this at 30 when I ran a few marathons...now at 62 could I even walk a half marathon? And the big one getting lost again and again on less traveled Camino routes...wandering around aimlessly and chewing up the km's?

Anyway that's the fun and challenge of walking Camino's...so many variables...nothing is predictable and the enjoyment of simply walking can't be beat. Looking forward to a new adventure on the Camino Primitive!

Guy
But at 62 years young you are a mere person in your youth. One of the pilgrims that I will never forget is an American woman who I met on my first Camino on the Camino Norte. During the Camino she had celebrated her 82nd birthday. And as a postscript, she was carrying all of her own gear for the full camino!!
Agreed it's very subjective using a rule like Naismith's and there are so many many variables however for high level planning only...why not? It's fun to plan and then see how far off on is!

So many variables...heat, fatigue, trail conditions (cobblestones, hot asphalt, tree roots after a rainstorm on a steep descent, beautiful forest path, bushwalking or something like it), lack of sleep due to snoring, great news from home, sad news from home, rain and more rain, brilliant sunshine and the company of a fellow pilgrim who becomes a new friend and time just flies, wind, injuries, meeting a massive cow blocking the trail in Switzerland, a scary cow on the The Puy route with bloody scary horns and taking a short cut and falling in a manure patch and then accidentally touching an electrified fence etc. etc. etc. Oh and did I mention age...I could easily do this at 30 when I ran a few marathons...now at 62 could I even walk a half marathon? And the big one getting lost again and again on less traveled Camino routes...wandering around aimlessly and chewing up the km's?

Anyway that's the fun and challenge of walking Camino's...so many variables...nothing is predictable and the enjoyment of simply walking can't be beat. Looking forward to a new adventure on the Camino Primitive!

Guy
 

Ian Afloat

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF July 25th 2017 from SJPDP
Here are the ancient Asturias rules for how they decided on the Primitivo route back in ancient times: 1) Is there a hill? Go straight up it. 2) Is there an alternative possibility around the hill? See rule 1.
 

lunna

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
frances; lisboa-muxia; norte+bayonne; vdlp; le puy; voie d'arles+aragones; geneva to ales
I've never walked the Primitivo, but I've just walked from Geneva to Le Puy and then the Stevenson to La Bastide Puylaurent, and then shifting over and down to Villefort. Lots and lots and lots of uphills followed by downhills immediately followed by uphill and so on, some pretty steep and even one or two a wee tetch dangerous, particularly from La Bastide to Villefort near Prevencheres in the rain. Am taking a two day rest break here but the 530 km or so I've walked so far has taken 24 days. Contrast that to my previous walks like the Via de la Plata, Le Puy to Spain, and Arles/Aragones which were much longer (800 to 1000 km) that I did in 30-33 days, and that tells me something. I did take a few shorter days (arriving at 3 pm or so), unlike my other walks (5pm or later often) but one has to take into account the 'smell the roses' factor as well.
 

lunna

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
frances; lisboa-muxia; norte+bayonne; vdlp; le puy; voie d'arles+aragones; geneva to ales
I've never walked the Primitivo, but I've just walked from Geneva to Le Puy and then the Stevenson to La Bastide Puylaurent, and then shifting over and down to Villefort. Lots and lots and lots of uphills followed by downhills immediately followed by uphill and so on, some pretty steep and even one or two a wee tetch dangerous, particularly from La Bastide to Villefort near Prevencheres in the rain. Am taking a two day rest break here but the 530 km or so I've walked so far has taken 24 days. Contrast that to my previous walks like the Via de la Plata, Le Puy to Spain, and Arles/Aragones which were much longer (800 to 1000 km) that I did in 30-33 days, and that tells me something. I did take a few shorter days (arriving at 3 pm or so), unlike my other walks (5pm or later often) but one has to take into account the 'smell the roses' factor as well.
 

Book your lodging here

Get e-mail updates from Casa Ivar (Forum + Forum Store content)


Advertisement

Booking.com

Most downloaded Resources

Forum Rules

Forum Rules

Camino Forum Store

Camino Forum Store

Casa Ivar Newsletter

Forum Donation

Forum Donation
For those with no forum account, it is possible to donate here as well. Thank you for your support! Ivar

Follow Casa Ivar on Instagram

When is the best time to walk?

  • January

    Votes: 15 1.3%
  • February

    Votes: 7 0.6%
  • March

    Votes: 46 4.0%
  • April

    Votes: 172 15.1%
  • May

    Votes: 277 24.4%
  • June

    Votes: 85 7.5%
  • July

    Votes: 22 1.9%
  • August

    Votes: 25 2.2%
  • September

    Votes: 325 28.6%
  • October

    Votes: 142 12.5%
  • November

    Votes: 15 1.3%
  • December

    Votes: 6 0.5%
Top