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Wayfinding out of Lalin...

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
All the way to where the path leaves the Paseo Fluvial, it's very straightforward, as Laurie's guide says.

Before you get to the lake:
Now the new waymarkers tell you to turn right off the PF onto a small path that goes behind some buildings (on your left after you make turn). Watch your step: TP there. 😕

It goes to a bigger path/road, then you come out to a bigger crossroad; go left.

Shortly you come to a bigger busy road. Cross it - there's a hotel with a good bar there for breakfast if you're out early.

Waymarks go to the left, and behind the flash hotel with the spa (a German peregrino said it was great, 58€), to a field: bear left and slightly uphill.

This will take you to a road (t-intersection), and tis is where it was confusing. There's a waymarker mojon directly across the street, but it may be blocked by parked cars. I couldn't see it at first (first pic).

Don't go up the hill to your right. If you turn right and go uphill past a kiddie's school there you've gone off course.

GO STRAIGHT ON, across the street. You'll be guided onto a small grassy path between two parts of the industrial area. It's hard to see, but there (third pic). Go straight on that path, til you get to the next street, and you'll see waymarkers there.

Don't be fooled by the big yellow arrows on the signs for the industrial area - just pay attention to the small hand-painted ones. (Second pic)

And if worse comes to worse, just walk along the main road, as Laurie suggests - but it's unnecessary.

The last pic is a screenshot of my osmand map that I've edited. Follow the wonky yellow line, NOT the purple one (fingerpainting on my phone screen, sorry...)
 

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KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
You found exactly the way that is marked. But it still amazes me how many people are confused on this very short stretch :D

It's true I walked it two times already (last year after some rerouting has been done for the second time) but... I mean it's so easy, well marked, logical and almost straight (of course if you look at the map in the morning and start walking completely awake), rerouted off the main road through the industrial area, that if you get lost here I'd say you'll get lost on your way to the closest Wal-Mart. too ;)

(my track: https://www.wikiloc.com/wikiloc/spatialArtifacts.do?event=setCurrentSpatialArtifact&id=25069933)
 
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Raggy

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2017, 2018, 2019
I'd say you'll get lost on your way to the closest Wal-Mart.
Please have a little empathy. I found it confusing and felt a need for more reassurance of the route in 2017. I am not gifted with a great sense of direction but I can find my way to the nearest supermarket and I can follow arrows for most of the Camino.
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
Please have a little empathy. I found it confusing and felt a need for more reassurance of the route in 2017. I am not gifted with a great sense of direction but I can find my way to the nearest supermarket and I can follow arrows for most of the Camino.
@Raggy
I can see why KinkyOne may appear to not be very sympathetic to those of us who lack a great sense of direction. His many years of walking caminos and his excellent visual memory may give him greater skills and experience than some, myself, for instance. But I am very appreciative of his willingness to help and find his assistance to be an asset to route finding. I see by your profile that you have also walked a long distance on caminos, so I would consider you to be quite experienced too. We shall see how lost I manage to get when walking the Madrid and the Invierno this fall. I can blame no one but myself for this. But I understand your need for reassurance. I manage this by telling myself that, so far, I have always got found after getting lost.
 
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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
but... I mean it's so easy, well marked, logical and almost straight (of course if you look at the map in the morning and start walking completely awake), rerouted off the main road through the industrial area, that if you get lost here I'd say you'll get lost on your way to the closest Wal-Mart. too ;)
Haha, K1!
Well, those who know me know I was not behind the door when God was giving a sense of direction.
It's one of my few skills.
Which is why I posted this. If I could get confused here, anyone can.

There were 2 things - all the parked cars blocked the view of the mojon, and the grass on the other side of the street was quite tall, so at first glance there was no path there. The only options seemed to be down towards the way I'd come, or up into the industrial area. I went up.
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
...
There were 2 things - all the parked cars blocked the view of the mojon, and the grass on the other side of the street was quite tall, so at first glance there was no path there. The only options seemed to be down towards the way I'd come, or up into the industrial area. I went up.
I can completely understand that (cars, grass).

As I'm very grateful to differrent local Camino Associations for their effort to make our way easier I also always complain. The main reason is that more or less these markers (arrows) are painted by the people that know this part of the Camino even if blindfolded and they usually don't think about other circumstances. Which are mostly exactly parked cars and high grass.

I was avid climber in my youth and I know very well what mountain marker painters do and how. They are locals of course but they are also rescuers and climbers. And you just can't afford to make mistake with placing a mountain marker!

That's why more thoughts must be given about Camino markers. The best position is approx. in the level of grown up persons eyesight (I do know some things about our eyes+brains as a film director). Then only a parked truck could block it. OTOH an arrow on the side of the curb can be blocked by resting pilgrims backpack ;)
 
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SabineP

Camino = Gratitude + Compassion.
Camino(s) past & future
some and then more. see my signature.
Haha, K1!
Well, those who know me know I was not behind the door when God was giving a sense of direction.
It's one of my few skills.
Which is why I posted this. If I could get confused here, anyone can.

There were 2 things - all the parked cars blocked the view of the mojon, and the grass on the other side of the street was quite tall, so at first glance there was no path there. The only options seemed to be down towards the way I'd come, or up into the industrial area. I went up.


One of your few skills?? One of your many!!!

But your sense of direction ??? Wow!!! If not for you I was still circling around the suburbs of Vitoria. :)
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
If not for you I was still circling around the suburbs of Vitoria. :)
Ha ha!
Which is a very good reason to be annoyed at that pesky wayfinder.
You'd still be in Vitoria?! Well, you could have had a tapas feast with Laurie when she came through and a few other things besides. ;)
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
One of your few skills?? One of your many!!!

But your sense of direction ??? Wow!!! If not for you I was still circling around the suburbs of Vitoria. :)
Was I writting about coming into Vitoria? I don't remember that at all... :oops:
But I do remember that (and as Laurie described it also) one of the saddest entrance to the town on any Camino I've been.
You were feeling lost there? It's dead straight slog as I remember, then a gentle uphill and to the right (generally) is cathedral.
 

SabineP

Camino = Gratitude + Compassion.
Camino(s) past & future
some and then more. see my signature.
Was I writting about coming into Vitoria? I don't remember that at all... :oops:
But I do remember that (and as Laurie described it also) one of the saddest entrance to the town on any Camino I've been.
You were feeling lost there? It's dead straight slog as I remember, then a gentle uphill and to the right (generally) is cathedral.


Walking out of Vitoria was an issue.
Walking into Vitoria locals took pity on me , I looked afwul , and showed me the way.
 
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KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
Walking out of Vitoria was an issue;
Walking into Vitoria locals took pity on me , I looked afwul , and showed me the way.
Geez, I don't remember me descibing getting out of Vitoria either. Is it my memory flaw or yours??? :)

Or maybe you mean Lalin? Vitoria/Gasteiz is on Via de Bayona.
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
Was I writting about coming into Vitoria? I don't remember that at all... :oops:
I don't remember me descibing getting out of Vitoria either. Is it my memory flaw or yours??? :)
Sabine was making a joke, poking fun at herself...it was a digression from the topic at hand.🙃
So, no. You're right. We were talking about leaving Lalin. Leaving Vitoria was another story and another camino.
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
I have been reading this thread and looking at the photos and have decided that either I shall follow the route easily and with no problems or get hopelessly lost. My guess is the latter. But I feel that I can ultimately rely on the route marking on maps.me to get sorted out and move on to the last section of my walk. I can hardly wait.
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
I have been reading this thread and looking at the photos and have decided that either I shall follow the route easily and with no problems or get hopelessly lost. My guess is the latter. But I feel that I can ultimately rely on the route marking on maps.me to get sorted out and move on to the last section of my walk. I can hardly wait.
No worry to get lost on this stretch. Just be careful at the spots where you would expect and arrow or mojon but there's a vehicle parked or overgrown.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
I purposefully didn’t read any of the threads on Lalín waymarking, and I am happy to say that I think it is very clear. Here is my description.

Turn right where the mojones take you off the river walk. Short while on a green track, then up to a quiet road. Turn left (arrow is slightly faded on building next to modern chapel.

This quiet road takes you to the busy N-525. Cross it in front of Bar Hostal Espiño. Turn left, a mojon immediately takes you right. You are now walking parallel to the industrial strip. You will come to the spa hotel. I think the easiest thing to do there is to walk up in front of the hotel. Then looking straight with the hotel at your back, cross the road and continue along the commercial/industrial strip.

At a roundabout for Santiago, the N highway and the super highway, curve to the right. Continue straight till you see the arrows taking you through the tunnel under the highway. You are in Laxe.
 

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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
The rest of the pictures, in order I hope
 

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KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
Nope, the photos are not in the right order.

After you came to the Spa Hotel you went down left to a service road through poligono industrial but that's not the marked Camino which goes to the right at the hotel and left at the back side of it. But your choice might be the easiest although completely on tarmac and within sight and sound of both very busy N-525 and AP-53. It's a really short stretch OTOH.
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
I purposefully didn’t read any of the threads on Lalín waymarking, and I am happy to say that I think it is very clear. Here is my description.

Turn right where the mojones take you off the river walk. Short while on a green track, then up to a quiet road. Turn left (arrow is slightly faded on building next to modern chapel.

This quiet road takes you to the busy N-525. Cross it in front of Bar Hostal Espiño. Turn left, a mojon immediately takes you right. You are now walking parallel to the industrial strip. You will come to the spa hotel. I think the easiest thing to do there is to walk up in front of the hotel. Then looking straight with the hotel at your back, cross the road and continue along the commercial/industrial strip.

At a roundabout for Santiago, the N highway and the super highway, curve to the right. Continue straight till you see the arrows taking you through the tunnel under the highway. You are in Laxe.
As a person with a poor sense of direction, I think I can follow your directions/photos as far as "the spa hotel. I think the easiest thing to do there is to walk up in front of the hotel. Then looking straight with the hotel at your back, cross the road and continue along the commercial/industrial strip." Once I cross the road, do I go right or left or straight ahead?" I just can't visualize "continue along" without a direction to go once I get across the road. As I shall be going through here in the fall, I would appreciate further instructions.
Edit: I have just read KinkyOne's comments, which confuse me further. Did you leave the posted camino at this point, or was it moved between when KinkyOne went through and your very recent walk? Any suggestions welcome, as I have a talent for getting lost.
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
As a person with a poor sense of direction, I think I can follow your directions/photos as far as "the spa hotel. I think the easiest thing to do there is to walk up in front of the hotel. Then looking straight with the hotel at your back, cross the road and continue along the commercial/industrial strip." Once I cross the road, do I go right or left or straight ahead?" I just can't visualize "continue along" without a direction to go once I get across the road. As I shall be going through here in the fall, I would appreciate further instructions.
Edit: I have just read KinkyOne's comments, which confuse me further. Did you leave the posted camino at this point, or was it moved between when KinkyOne went through and your very recent walk? Any suggestions welcome, as I have a talent for getting lost.
Hi albertagirl, I think we are making this way more confusing than it is, so I’m sorry about that. If you get to the front door door of the spa hotel you will be fine. This picture is taken looking back at the hotel from the camino.
 

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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
And then very soon you come to the roundabout where the camino skirts it to the right and you are home free
 

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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
Nope, the photos are not in the right order.

After you came to the Spa Hotel you went down left to a service road through poligono industrial but that's not the marked Camino which goes to the right at the hotel and left at the back side of it. But your choice might be the easiest although completely on tarmac and within sight and sound of both very busy N-525 and AP-53. It's a really short stretch OTOH.
Ah here we go again. 😂😆😆When I got to the hotel I went to the right side and then came up in front of the hotel but really doesn’t matter how you get to the front of the hotel. Everyone will see the hotel. They come upon it from the rear. If they get to the front (either by going on the left, the right, or up through the hotel’s own driveway) they will all reach the front door and from there it is easy. Just go straight on the commercial drive.
 

ranthr

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C Frances 2005, 2007
Le Puy en Velay -SdC 2009
Via de la Plata 2011
gr 653 from Oloron to Puente la Reina 2012
Gr65 from le Puy to Figeac 2013
Irun to Santander 2013
Porto to SdC 2014
Astorga to SdC 2015
I went down there from the hotel last year, and there were even yellow arrows on trees on the left side of the road along the pavement. Easy walk. Not possible to go wrong.
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
Ah here we go again. 😂😆😆When I got to the hotel I went to the right side and then came up in front of the hotel but really doesn’t matter how you get to the front of the hotel. Everyone will see the hotel. They come upon it from the rear. If they get to the front (either by going on the left, the right, or up through the hotel’s own driveway) they will all reach the front door and from there it is easy. Just go straight on the commercial drive.
See the photo as you come to the hotel. There is a mojon with clear yellow arrow pointing to the right. But you have to take the road not the driveway. To the left the service road is visible.
20180520_145237 (RS).jpg
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
I went down there from the hotel last year, and there were even yellow arrows on trees on the left side of the road along the pavement. Easy walk. Not possible to go wrong.
Yep, the old route which I mentioned before as being noisy.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Portugués Porto'17,Lisbon'18
Inglés A Coruña y Ferrol '18
Invierno'19
As a person with a poor sense of direction, I think I can follow your directions/photos as far as "the spa hotel. I think the easiest thing to do there is to walk up in front of the hotel. Then looking straight with the hotel at your back, cross the road and continue along the commercial/industrial strip." Once I cross the road, do I go right or left or straight ahead?" I just can't visualize "continue along" without a direction to go once I get across the road. As I shall be going through here in the fall, I would appreciate further instructions.
Edit: I have just read KinkyOne's comments, which confuse me further. Did you leave the posted camino at this point, or was it moved between when KinkyOne went through and your very recent walk? Any suggestions welcome, as I have a talent for getting lost.
Hi,
I am sure you will be just fine, my son and I made our way out of Lalin while it was pitch black with head lamps. Try not to over think, this is coming from a confessed 'overthinker'!!
MaryEllen
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
See the photo as you come to the hotel. There is a mojon with clear yellow arrow pointing to the right. But you have to take the road not the driveway. To the left the service road is visible.
View attachment 60674
I have the same picture, though probably not as well composed as yours. At this point, I would say to anyone walking —go left, go right, go up, it doesn’t matter, just get to the front door of the hotel.
 

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KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
I have the same picture, though probably not as well composed as yours. At this point, I would say to anyone walking —go left, go right, go up, it doesn’t matter, just get to the front door of the hotel.
Why would you want to go to the front gate of the hotel?

Laurie do you remember these spots after the hotel?
 

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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
But, Laurie, K1 is right. The current markers take you behind the hotel, rather than in front of it, hence the confusion.

The way you went was in front of the hotel and then along the main drag, right?
The waymarked route that K1 and I took is parallel to that, on a grassy path between two blocks of industrial development (pic). So you didn't see what his photos show, because you were below that on the other side of the buildings.

I briefly got into trouble right at the crossing after going behind the hotel, where the path is straight ahead but the mojon was hidden behind a parked car. I went uphill, which was wrong.

Bottom line is both ways will get you there. It's only a couple of hundred meters on the pavement. But (Haha) look who's advocating the alternate route on pavement! 🤭;)
 

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Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
So I am beginning to understand that there are two marked routes for this last section out of Lalin: the first in front of the hotel taken by @peregrina2000 and @ranthr , the second behind the hotel taken by @VNwalking (who got off this route later) and by @KinkyOne. I think that I would probably prefer the route indicated by @KinkyOne, from what is shown in his photos. But I suspect that I would find my way to A Laxe by either way and am fussing for nothing. Thanks to all for your help. And I would also like to thank @KinkyOne especially for his ongoing postings on the Madrid to the Frances to the Invierno (2014), which is the route that I intend to walk this fall. I found the continuity and comments very helpful. And with that many bars mentioned, I may never lack for something to drink.
 

ranthr

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C Frances 2005, 2007
Le Puy en Velay -SdC 2009
Via de la Plata 2011
gr 653 from Oloron to Puente la Reina 2012
Gr65 from le Puy to Figeac 2013
Irun to Santander 2013
Porto to SdC 2014
Astorga to SdC 2015
So I am beginning to understand that there are two marked routes for this last section out of Lalin: the first in front of the hotel taken by @peregrina2000 and @ranthr , the second behind the hotel taken by @VNwalking (who got off this route later) and by @KinkyOne. I think that I would probably prefer the route indicated by @KinkyOne, from what is shown in his photos. But I suspect that I would find my way to A Laxe by either way and am fussing for nothing. Thanks to all for your help. And I would also like to thank @KinkyOne especially for his ongoing postings on the Madrid to the Frances to the Invierno (2014), which is the route that I intend to walk this fall. I found the continuity and comments very helpful. And with that many bars mentioned, I may never lack for something to drink.
Since I am a followthearrows kind of peregrina, I had never read and followed a description of a route until the Invierno. The only problem for me in Lalin was to find the arrows down to the river since I did not follow the camino but the road variant because of fog and rain. When I came down to the riverpark I now and then wanted more arrows but it was clearly marked when you have to leave the riverpark. So just walk on and after some time you will see the direction to the right up to the highway. Since I stayed in the spa hotel mentioned above, I took an evening walk to control the route for the next morning, and as Laurie says, the shortest route is the road through the industrial area . Met no cars and the noise was from the highway a level down.
 
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KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
Since I am a followthearrows kind of peregrina, I had never read and followed a description of a route until the Invierno. The only problem for me in Lalin was to find the arrows down to the river since I did not follow the camino but the road variant because of fog and rain. When I came down to the riverpark I now and then wanted more arrows but it was clearly marked when you have to leave the riverpark. So just walk on and after some time you will see the direction to the right up to the highway. Since I stayed in the spa hotel mentioned above, I took an evening walk to control the route for the next morning, and as Laurie says, the shortest route is the road through the industrial area . Met no cars and the noise was from the highway a level down.
Exactly what I wrote @ranthr
I wasn't disagreeing with Laurie I was just emphasizing that the old route is the one you took from the hotel whereas the new route is marked away from the main drag (e.g.service road) and then parallel to it as @VNwalking wrote one block higher. That's all there is. Which is the "right or wrong" one (no such thing if you reach the point you are heading to) is for each one to decide.
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
In the pic link below, the yellow line is the way I and K1 went. The purple one is the same as Laurie's.
The part we're all talking about is on the left side of the map - the hotel is labelled as a bar/restaurante. (The link is from the very first post on this thread, which I wrote with Laurie in mind. Oh, well. ;) )
20190614_215636.jpg

You'll be fine, @Albertagirl . Go behind the hotel if you want the grassy quieter route, go in front of it if you want to go along the road. This discussion makes it sound way more complicated than it actually is.
 
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KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
In the pic link below, the yellow line is the way I and K1 went. The purple one is the same as Laurie's.
The part we're all talking about is on the left side of the map - the hotel is labelled as a bar/restaurante. (The link is from the very first post on this thread, which I wrote with Laurie in mind. Oh, well. ;) )
20190614_215636.jpg

You'll be fine, @Albertagirl . Go behind the hotel if you want the grassy quieter route, go in front of it if you want to go along the road. This discussion makes it sound way more complicated than it actually is.
Hahahaha, not correct Vira.

To Hotel (bar/restaurante) Laurie walked the same yellow line as we did. Only after the hotel she and @ranthr walked the purple line ;)

Once more my GPS track from last year which is definitely the newly marked route through poligono industrial. Just zoom in and you'll see the unusual shape of the hotel (just a little bit before the roudabout) where the track goes to the right and soon veers to the left and parallels the service road:
 
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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
Hahahaha, not correct Vira.

To Hotel (bar/restaurante) Laurie walked the same yellow line as we did. Only after the hotel she and @ranthr walked the purple line ;)
Pax, dear K1. ;) That's true - and I didn't say otherwise. It's just where the paths diverge either going behind the hotel or in front of it that we're talking about right now. I just recycled the screenshot because it showed the diversion point - though unfortunately not the rest, and I don't have time to do a proper map of the whole thing.
 

MikeJS

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francis (2011), Norte (12), VdlP (16). Sureste/Invierno (17). Olvidado/San Salvador/Primitivo (19)
I have followed this thread for some time and alway wondered what the fuss was about. I walked the Invierno in May 17 and for this section I wrote in my blog - ‘ The route into Lalin was very good as well as it avoided the road as far as possible. Also it's a nice(ish) riverside walk out but with no arrows for 4km but you just follow the path. Unfortunately, it's all a bit like a Municipal park.'
Cannot remember the precise details, but if there had been any problems I would have recorded it. However, it would seem that I just follwed whatever route was signed…...
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
‘ The route into Lalin was very good as well as it avoided the road as far as possible. Also it's a nice(ish) riverside walk out but with no arrows for 4km but you just follow the path. Unfortunately, it's all a bit like a Municipal park.'
The fuss is that after that, once you're in the industrial area, there are now 2 possible routes, and we all have opinions about which one is best.
;););)
 

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