Weekend Waves and Cathedral Hours

[koilife]

Given that this is a Holy Year, I'd rather surf the troughs rather than the peaks of the pilgrim waves.

How significant are the waves from weekend starts in late May and June from Logrono, Burgos, Leon, and Oviedo? Does the crest of the wave tend to be Saturday, Sunday, or Monday? Does the Holy Year skew/shift the normal patterns (other than raw volume)?

Due to school and work constraints, we have to fly into Madrid Sunday morning and then bus to Logrono that day. We'd like to start walking on Monday, which puts us in Burgos on Saturday, with a rest day on Sunday, and walking again Monday. This puts us into Leon on Saturday, with another rest day on Sunday, and back on the road Monday up the Salvator to Ovieda arriving on Friday or Saturday depending on how we break up the stages. After another rest day, we're starting out on the Primitivo on a Sunday or Monday.

I really like the chance to attend Sunday Mass at the great cathedrals along the way (almost a pilgrimage within the pilgrimage), but I really don't want to get swamped in the waves.

Also, if I read their websites right, it looks like Burgos, Leon, and Oviedo are open for touring the cathedral and museums on Sundays, but I thought I'd read elsewhere that they were closed because of Sunday except for Masses. Can anyone confirm?

 

[koilife]

Giving this a one-time bump to keep it from scrolling down too far in the threads to be noticed.

 

[jmcarp]

I don't know about Sunday tours specifically, but the only problem we had with a cathedral tour was on a Saturday in León, where we were asked to cut our tour short because there was a wedding scheduled (apparently a common occurrence).

 

[t2andreo]

Generally speaking, arriving at your starting point on Sunday is not a bad thing. However, I strongly recommend making advance private albergue, hostal, or hotel reservations, in this case at Logrono. This way, you can start off the next day rested clean and relaxed. You also have the ability to buy snacks, bottled water, and any last-minute items you need, lost or forgot.

Most of the weekend starters will typically start on Friday, Saturday or Sunday, as they seek to use the coming week to do a segment of the Camino. Many Europeans, and especially Spaniards, will devote a week or two of holiday time to doing a portion of a Camino route and will complete the route over several trips. It is mostly the pilgrims coming from afar, North America, Australia, New Zealand, Africa or Asia, who need to accomplish their Camino in one go.

I would think that only a small number of this wave will remain to start on Monday, as their purpose is to cover as much distance as they can during the time they have available, maximizing weekend days. So, starting on Friday if they can swing the day off work, or Saturday or Sunday are preferable to starting off on Monday.

Also, around Easter there are additional "bonus days" they will work with. So you need to be aware of this. Across Europe (surprisingly, as most of the societies are fully secular now) there are national holidays on both Good Friday and Easter Monday. So, many Europeans have a structural four-day holiday.

Thus, I expect the period from Thursday night, 24 March, through Monday, 28 March, this year to be especially busy at the nodal locations. If you are planning on being near any of the mentioned starting points around this holiday, you do need to plan ahead. Hopefully, you have already made your arrangements.

As regards Mass attendance at the various Cathedrals along the Camino, consider that many Cathedrals in the cities (Burgos, Astorga, Leon, etc.) may offer Saturday evening "vigil" masses. For a practicing Catholic, these Masses count towards meeting your weekly Mass obligation. So, I recommend you factor this into your planing. Practically speaking, any Catholic Mass counts. So, take it where you can find it, if it is important to your personal pilgrimage and planning.

The trick to managing "the wave" is making advance reservations when you know you will be arriving in a major starting node on a Friday or Saturday. For example, I am doing the Camino de Madrid this year. The first half is from Madrid to Sahagun. From Sahagun, I will be on the Camino Frances for another two weeks.

I will attend Mass as I can on the first segment. I think I will be in Segovia one Sunday. I will either catch a vigil Mass the evening before in the previous town, at Cercedilla, or try to catch a later Sunday Mass at Segovia.

BTW - I use www.http://masstimes.org/ to find Masses all over the world. Try it.

On the second segment, Sahagun to Santiago, my first Sunday appears to have me arriving at Astorga. The Santa Maria cathedral there has Sunday Mass at 12:00 (noon). There appear to be no vigil other Sunday Masses. So, that tells me to get there before noon on Sunday, or find something in my previous stop.

My second Sunday falls at Sarria. While this is not the site of a grand cathedral, it is the largest starting point for pilgrims seeking to do the obligatory final 100 Km of the Camino Frances to qualify for a Compostela. Actually it is 111 Km. I arrive on Saturday, but the availability of advance bookings was such that I had to stay two nights at Sarria so I could reservable rooms farther down the Camino into Santiago. Everything is linked to everything else. This means I had to sit out an extra day at Sarria to let the wave go in front of me. Fortunately, there is plenty to do here. I still cannot find a good solution at Arzua. But that will sort itself out.

I rely mostly on www.booking.com for advance reservations. Where that does not work, I use direct e-mail to seek reservations. I will use both the Bing and Google online translators as the results are sometimes and surprisingly different. Sometimes, I will ask the clerk or owner where I am staying to phone ahead for me to seek a room. That works surprisingly well. I think the fact that another proprietor called for you sort of "vets" you to the down the road property.

I hope this helps.

 

[peregrina2000]

Also, if I read their websites right, it looks like Burgos, Leon, and Oviedo are open for touring the cathedral and museums on Sundays, but I thought I'd read elsewhere that they were closed because of Sunday except for Masses. Can anyone confirm?

Hi, koilife, I think you're right that the cathedrals are open for visits on Sundays (maybe closed on Sunday afternoons though, as many sites in Spain are). In my experience, the tours are not allowed in when mass is going on, so maybe that's what you had read.

 

[koilife]

Generally speaking, arriving at your starting point on Sunday is not a bad thing. However, I strongly recommend making advance private albergue, hostal, or hotel reservations, in this case at Logrono. This way, you can start off the next day rested clean and relaxed. You also have the ability to buy snacks, bottled water, and any last-minute items you need, lost or forgot.

This is already our plan.

Most of the weekend starters will typically start on Friday, Saturday or Sunday, as they seek to use the coming week to do a segment of the Camino. Many Europeans, and especially Spaniards, will devote a week or two of holiday time to doing a portion of a Camino route and will complete the route over several trips. It is mostly the pilgrims coming from afar, North America, Australia, New Zealand, Africa or Asia, who need to accomplish their Camino in one go. . . . I would think that only a small number of this wave will remain to start on Monday, as their purpose is to cover as much distance as they can during the time they have available, maximizing weekend days. So, starting on Friday if they can swing the day off work, or Saturday or Sunday are preferable to starting off on Monday.

Just how bad the peak is likely to be is heart of my question. I already assumed Spanish walkers would "maximize" a Saturday/Sunday start, and a significant number of internationals (like me) would tend to start on Monday, as their work schedules equate to flying on the weekend.

As regards Mass attendance at the various Cathedrals along the Camino, consider that many Cathedrals in the cities (Burgos, Astorga, Leon, etc.) may offer Saturday evening "vigil" masses. For a practicing Catholic, these Masses count towards meeting your weekly Mass obligation. So, I recommend you factor this into your planing. Practically speaking, any Catholic Mass counts. So, take it where you can find it, if it is important to your personal pilgrimage and planning.

Understood. That was my plan in Oviedo if arriving Friday and leaving Sunday morning.

The trick to managing "the wave" is making advance reservations when you know you will be arriving in a major starting node on a Friday or Saturday.

Understood.

BTW - I use www.http://masstimes.org/ to find Masses all over the world. Try it.

I'm very familiar with masstimes.org, it was the tour/museum times on Sunday that were the nature of my question.

 

[koilife]

Hi, koilife, I think you're right that the cathedrals are open for visits on Sundays (maybe closed on Sunday afternoons though, as many sites in Spain are). In my experience, the tours are not allowed in when mass is going on, so maybe that's what you had read.

Hi, Laurie.
I fully expect that access to the cathedral is restricted during the Masses themselves, which is only appropriate. It's the Sunday afternoon window that I'm most keenly interested in from a timing perspective. My fallback is to email the Cathedrals themselves to ask.

Also, do you have a date yet for when you plan to leave Leon for Oviedo? And were you planning to take an extra day in Oviedo? My current plan is six stages: La Robla, Poladura de Tercia, Pajares, Pola de Lena, Mieres, Oviedo. However, I might still move to the 5-day plan. I still want to overlap with you if possible.

 

[t2andreo]

The question to "how bad will the surge, wave, or peak be" cannot be precisely answered. But, practically speaking, if all available bed space (public & private albergues, hostals, and hotels) is taken, reserved, or claimed by people arriving before you, what difference does it make? That is the condition that defines any portion of the Camino, or any nightly stopover being saturated or swamped by "the wave."

So, perhaps the 'best' answer to the question you pose is best answered by the statement, "...just assume that all available bed space that you might consider acceptable is GONE. That is how 'bad' the peak can be."

The only counter to this condition are to: (1) shift your arrival or departure dates before getting to the problem place to avoid the impact of the surge at the major node or city; OR (2) plan to stay for the night slightly before, or slightly after, the major node or city. I already mentioned having this problem and how I dealt with it at Sarria.

This year, I am treating Leon this way, planning to bus over Leon from the western industrial suburbs to the eastern side of the city proper, and staying in a hostal at La Virgen del Camino. I've visited Leon twice for three-days each time as a stopover at the approximate middle of the Camino Frances.

I hope this helps.

 

[t2andreo]

Also, as regards the Cathedrals; each has a webpage. Run a Bing or Google search for: "Cathedral Leon, Spain" (for example). You might get the Provincial website for the area bishop. I did it yesterday to find Mass times at cities in each province (Leon, Astorga, etc.).

Usually, there is a bishop or archbishop installed at each Cathedral. This also usually denotes the "headquarters" for that diocese or religious province. Finding that web page is a gold mine, as you can drill down to find the local churches in towns and villages located in that diocese or province. focus on towns and villages on your route of march, and you will be better able to forecast where and when Masses are available.

Masstimes.org is good, but frequently out of date. Use this site to locate, and drill down on the local sites, and rely on your online translation capabilities.

If your have your browser configured to do so, it will translate Spanish pages on the fly. I use Chrome on a Macbook and it works flawlessly.

I hope this helps.

 

[koilife]

The question to "how bad will the surge, wave, or peak be" cannot be precisely answered. But, practically speaking, if all available bed space (public & private albergues, hostals, and hotels) is taken, reserved, or claimed by people arriving before you, what difference does it make? That is the condition that defines any portion of the Camino, or any nightly stopover being saturated or swamped by "the wave."

So, perhaps the 'best' answer to the question you pose is best answered by the statement, "...just assume that all available bed space that you might consider acceptable is GONE. That is how 'bad' the peak can be."

"Bad" was a poor choice of words. I was looking more for relative comparisons. For instance, if most of the surge of the Holy Year is related to Spaniards, and most of them leave on Saturday or Sunday, then a Monday start may not be much worse than a normal year. But, if there is a surge of internationals, then Monday might get a big spike. Or, perhaps if the Holy Year impact produces a massive bunching at the Sarria stretch, there might not be as much of a surge further back because Spanish section hikers might shift forward to get the Compostela and indulgence for the Holy Year. I can predict all kinds of theoretical scenarios, but I hold out hope that some of the forum members have actually seen past Holy Years firsthand and can comment (with all the usual caveats of past performance may not indicate future).

The only counter to this condition are to: (1) shift your arrival or departure dates before getting to the problem place to avoid the impact of the surge at the major node or city; OR (2) plan to stay for the night slightly before, or slightly after, the major node or city. I already mentioned having this problem and how I dealt with it at Sarria.

I know how to adapt. The point of the post is to get an advanced sense of whether or not I'll need to. On a purely personal level, I'm also trying to time our departure from Leon to coincide with @peregrina2000 as I would dearly like to meet her in person. I find her to be one of the finest, friendliest, and classiest contributors of all time.

 

[koilife]

Also, as regards the Cathedrals; each has a webpage. Run a Bing or Google search for: "Cathedral Leon, Spain" (for example). You might get the Provincial website for the area bishop. I did it yesterday to find Mass times at cities in each province (Leon, Astorga, etc.).

Usually, there is a bishop or archbishop installed at each Cathedral. This also usually denotes the "headquarters" for that diocese or religious province. Finding that web page is a gold mine, as you can drill down to find the local churches in towns and villages located in that diocese or province. focus on towns and villages on your route of march, and you will be better able to forecast where and when Masses are available.

Masstimes.org is good, but frequently out of date. Use this site to locate, and drill down on the local sites, and rely on your online translation capabilities.

If your have your browser configured to do so, it will translate Spanish pages on the fly. I use Chrome on a Macbook and it works flawlessly.

I hope this helps.

Yes. I've already been to the websites. They don't mention that they are closed on Sundays, but I've seen other comments on the forum where it appears they were closed on Sundays. Thus my inquiry.

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, Laurie.
I fully expect that access to the cathedral is restricted during the Masses themselves, which is only appropriate. It's the Sunday afternoon window that I'm most keenly interested in from a timing perspective. My fallback is to email the Cathedrals themselves to ask.

Also, do you have a date yet for when you plan to leave Leon for Oviedo? And were you planning to take an extra day in Oviedo? My current plan is six stages: La Robla, Poladura de Tercia, Pajares, Pola de Lena, Mieres, Oviedo. However, I might still move to the 5-day plan. I still want to overlap with you if possible.

Hi, Koilife,

Subject to the whims and caprices of the Camino, I hope to arrive in León on Saturday, June 11. I think I'll shoot for the 5 day plan -- La Robla, Poladura, Bendueños, Mieres, Oviedo. I will probably start walking the 12th, since I've spent a lot of time in León. But if I got to León early in the day, I could continue on to that first albergue in Cabanillas (about 17 km, I think). We'll have to keep in touch, I will PM you my Spanish phone number when I buy the card in Barcelona in May. Will you have a Spanish phone.

Based on my quick online search, León cathedral is open for visits only 9:30-2 pm on Sunday, Burgos cathedral open all day, http://catedraldeburgos.info/catedral/, and the Oviedo cathedral is closed for visits on Sunday. (that's consistent with my memory of my last time in Oviedo).
Buen camino, hope to meet you in the summer! Laurie

 

[Mark Lee]

I know my last CF I was initially going to walk into Santiago on a Friday afternoon, but there was a heck of a lot of pilgrims on the Camino that day all heading in to Santiago too. The numbers increased tremendously after Sarria. I chose to stop in Monte do Gozo for the night and walk in to Santiago in the morning. Figured I'd have better chance of finding accommodations that way, and I did.
It looked like a lot of locals timed their Sarria to SdC walk to get there Friday afternoon to spend the weekend there and back to work or school on Monday.

 

[koilife]

Hi, Koilife,

Subject to the whims and caprices of the Camino, I hope to arrive in León on Saturday, June 11. I think I'll shoot for the 5 day plan -- La Robla, Poladura, Bendueños, Mieres, Oviedo. I will probably start walking the 12th, since I've spent a lot of time in León. But if I got to León early in the day, I could continue on to that first albergue in Cabanillas (about 17 km, I think). We'll have to keep in touch, I will PM you my Spanish phone number when I buy the card in Barcelona in May. Will you have a Spanish phone.

Based on my quick online search, León cathedral is open for visits only 9:30-2 pm on Sunday, Burgos cathedral open all day, http://catedraldeburgos.info/catedral/, and the Oviedo cathedral is closed for visits on Sunday. (that's consistent with my memory of my last time in Oviedo).
Buen camino, hope to meet you in the summer! Laurie

I'll probably get a Spanish SIM for my phone.

Can you lead em to a specific link for Oviedo? On catedraldeoviedo.com/en/ I went to the sightseeing option and I find no differentiation of hours for Sunday (or mention of being closed on Sunday). On www.catedraldeleon.org/index.php/visitas it looks like there are Sunday afternoon hours for both the Cathedral and the musuem (14-20h and 16-20h respectively). And on catedraldeburgos.info/catedral/?lang=en it appears there is no differentiation for Sunday hours.

All of the above leads me to believe that they should be open on Sundays, which is what I'm trying to square with people's past experiences. Possibly schedules have changed, or possibly there were odd things like local holidays which led to specific closures.

Looks like we'll be a day or two behind you. Shucks!

 

[peregrina2000]

I'll probably get a Spanish SIM for my phone.

Can you lead em to a specific link for Oviedo? On catedraldeoviedo.com/en/ I went to the sightseeing option and I find no differentiation of hours for Sunday (or mention of being closed on Sunday). On www.catedraldeleon.org/index.php/visitas it looks like there are Sunday afternoon hours for both the Cathedral and the musuem (14-20h and 16-20h respectively). And on catedraldeburgos.info/catedral/?lang=en it appears there is no differentiation for Sunday hours.

All of the above leads me to believe that they should be open on Sundays, which is what I'm trying to square with people's past experiences. Possibly schedules have changed, or possibly there were odd things like local holidays which led to specific closures.

Looks like we'll be a day or two behind you. Shucks!

You´re right that the Oviedo cathedral's website says they are open on Sunday. I took my information from one of those little wikipedia boxes that sometimes come up when you type a search. I'll see if I can get a screen shot.

 

[peregrina2000]

 

[koilife]

I know my last CF I was initially going to walk into Santiago on a Friday afternoon, but there was a heck of a lot of pilgrims on the Camino that day all heading in to Santiago too. The numbers increased tremendously after Sarria. I chose to stop in Monte do Gozo for the night and walk in to Santiago in the morning. Figured I'd have better chance of finding accommodations that way, and I did.
It looked like a lot of locals timed their Sarria to SdC walk to get there Friday afternoon to spend the weekend there and back to work or school on Monday.

I fully expect the final approach to Santiago to be a flood of humanity and insanity. I'm already braced for that. And large as Monte de Gozo is, I'm expecting it to get overrun as well. I qualify those as extra penance and opportunities for growing in charity!

 

[peregrina2000]

This document also suggests it's closed to tourism on Sunday. http://www.turismoviedo.es/files/pdf/2012_museos_horarios.pdf

 

[koilife]

You´re right that the Oviedo cathedral's website says they are open on Sunday. I took my information from one of those little wikipedia boxes that sometimes come up when you type a search. I'll see if I can get a screen shot.

Exactly the problem I'm trying to solve. I suspect an email directly to the cathedral will be the only way to get the definitive answer.

 

[koilife]

This document also suggests it's closed to tourism on Sunday. http://www.turismoviedo.es/files/pdf/2012_museos_horarios.pdf

Although it's from 2012, and so things may have changed, it looks like a lot of the other local museums are open Sunday, which would be nice.

We have a week on the back side of making Santiago that I had planned for the Finisterre-Muxia loop, but we might insert a second rest day in Burgos, Leon, and Ovied0, and spend more time sightseeing and museum visiting along the way. That would definitely solve the problem of the weekend waves and move us into a midweek trough for approaching Santiago.

 

[t2andreo]

Your insights about starting days and wave composition are spot-on. I believe the national composition of the starting pilgrims should not change. Spaniards will still constitute about half of all starting pilgrims, especially at Sarria, Astorga and Leon. As a general practice, they tend not to walk the longer distances in one go, as they have the relatively easiest time getting to and from the Camino.

I am sure someone will object to this characterization. But as a general rule, I maintain it is likely correct.

Given the costs and difficulties of persons from outside the European continent doing the Camino at any time, I suspect the weekend starts will be relatively greater, while the Monday starts will be slightly greater. Sarria was the only place I had difficulty obtaining a room on a Sunday evening.

I hope this helps and clarifies...it will have to do as my crystal ball is in the shop...

 

[koilife]

I hope this helps and clarifies...it will have to do as my crystal ball is in the shop...

Thank much. I suppose that, as with most things, man plans and God laughs. But, I find that thinking things through in advance makes it easier to deal with adversity and to respond to unexpected events in the moment.

Although, tell me when you get that crystal ball back, as I'd like to use it for the lottery, and then I won't have to worry about work constraints on my travel.

 

[Mark Lee]

I fully expect the final approach to Santiago to be a flood of humanity and insanity. I'm already braced for that. And large as Monte de Gozo is, I'm expecting it to get overrun as well. I qualify those as extra penance and opportunities for growing in charity!

I don't think it will be that bad though, if you avoid the weekend flood of traffic. and it may not have been as bad as I imagined. As far as the albergue at Monte do Gozo, there were only about 20 of us pilgrims there in total. The place looks like it could hold 300, but didn't seem to be that popular. It is only about 5k from the cathedral.

 

[koilife]

I don't think it will be that bad though, if you avoid the weekend flood of traffic. and it may not have been as bad as I imagined. As far as the albergue at Monte do Gozo, there were only about 20 of us pilgrims there in total. The place looks like it could hold 300, but didn't seem to be that popular. It is only about 5k from the cathedral.

In 2013, we skipped over it because we had plenty of strength left and were forging on to Santiago. However, we stopped for 30 minutes or to say hi to a lot of folks we'd seen along the way. There were easily over 100+ because folks wanted to walk into Santiago in the morning and attend their Pilgrim's Mass on the day of their arrival. I expect the Holy Year volume spike to be very high. But, time will tell.

 

[Alan Pearce]

I know my last CF I was initially going to walk into Santiago on a Friday afternoon, but there was a heck of a lot of pilgrims on the Camino that day all heading in to Santiago too. The numbers increased tremendously after Sarria. I chose to stop in Monte do Gozo for the night and walk in to Santiago in the morning. Figured I'd have better chance of finding accommodations that way, and I did.
It looked like a lot of locals timed their Sarria to SdC walk to get there Friday afternoon to spend the weekend there and back to work or school on Monday.

I was told last year by two different hospitaleros that many pilgrims leave Sarria in order to arrive in Santiago on Thursday and Friday, so that they can see see the botafumeiro swing at the 7.30PM mass on Friday night. They said every week there is a surge of pilgrims at this time.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

 

[peregrina2000]

Exactly the problem I'm trying to solve. I suspect an email directly to the cathedral will be the only way to get the definitive answer.

Koilife, I'm virtually certain it's closed for visitors on Sundays. Not only because that is what my aging memory remembers but because I saw this calendar on the Cathedral website. Notice that under every "domingo" there is a "cerrado."

 

[koilife]

And the evidence mounts . . .

Thank you, by the way!