What book defines 'off stage'?

[ncwep]

I've noticed that stages in the Brierley book are different than the stages in the Dintaman and Landis book (the Village to Village Guide). I've noticed some discussion about staying 'off stage' being the less congested towns. But which book defines this? Any input is helpful!

 

[C clearly]

No book defines it, and the description is misleading. People use these words merely to suggest that some places are less popular than others as endpoints for the day.

 

[C clearly]

Perhaps the idea of fixed "end stages" is more formulaic and easier to grasp, than the fact of an 800-km continuum of villages, towns and cities at irregular but manageable intervals.

 

[Former member 92300]

What C Clearly said...

For me... off stages just means stopping in towns that are not the beginning/end towns for each stage in ANY of the guidebooks. This usually means staying in the smaller towns with less services - as stage towns were likely picked by the various guidebook writers because of all of their services available.

With all the guidebooks - some of the "stage towns" are the same and others are different... but Brierly is probably the most used guidebook - so if I am avoiding stage towns that are more popular - I tend to avoid Brierly's listed towns first.

But don't get too hung up on it - if you are winging it - you could always plan to stay in a stage town and then if you aren't impressed or it seems too crowded - you could walk on to the next town if it isn't too far away.

 

[Bradypus]

With all the guidebooks - some of the "stage towns" are the same and others are different... but Brierly is probably the most used guidebook - so if I am avoiding stage towns that are more popular - I tend to avoid Brierly's listed towns first.

I think that's only true for English-speakers. And we are in the minority amongst pilgrims. The majority are speakers of other languages and have their own authors and guidebooks.

 

[RJM]

There's really no such thing as stages of any of the Caminos. The authors of the books are simply breaking down the Camino path into sections for the book's sake. Each chapter if you will has a walking beginning point and end and in between are several other cities, towns, villages and places to stay.
Unfortunately a lot of pilgrims see this as almost a must do blueprint on walking the Camino and it's not to be deviated from...you must walk these stages, you must have a Camino family, you must drink cafe con leche and eat churros, you must have a communal meal, you must chunk a rock at the iron cross .....

 

[Bradypus]

Unfortunately a lot of pilgrims see this as almost a must do blueprint on walking the Camino and it's not to be deviated from...

It is understandable that inexperienced walkers might assume that a stage plan like Brierley's is "normal" and try to stick with it. Sadly they can sometimes find themselves struggling to keep up. Which can be a real headache if they have already booked accommodation in advance and a return journey with specific dates. The confidence to deviate from the master plan comes with practice.

 

[Shalaw]

I've noticed that stages in the Brierley book are different than the stages in the Dintaman and Landis book (the Village to Village Guide). I've noticed some discussion about staying 'off stage' being the less congested towns. But which book defines this? Any input is helpful!

You can use any book. For example, the Brierley book shows towns before and after the suggested stops in his book, so being off stage means you are choosing to stay in any of those towns and not at the suggested stop.

 

[Former member 92300]

I think that's only true for English-speakers. And we are in the minority amongst pilgrims. The majority are speakers of other languages and have their own authors and guidebooks.

That makes total sense - but it is also the only guidebook I saw anyone pull out of their pack and I did see a few people from other non-English first language countries using it. Thinking back - I did see one person pull out another book.

 

[Katherine Radeka]

I agree with all of the above — and — some towns show up over and over in books and on web sites, etc starting with SJPP itself and then Roncevalles, Zubiri . . .

 

[Former member 92300]

Unfortunately a lot of pilgrims see this as almost a must do blueprint on walking the Camino and it's not to be deviated from...you must walk these stages, you must have a Camino family, you must drink cafe con leche and eat churros, you must have a communal meal, you must chunk a rock at the iron cross .....

Yep - on any Camino website I have been on - it is by far the most recommended book and sometimes it seems almost as if no other book exists haha. Someone was trying to find ways to decrease pack weight and planned to carry the book. I suggested leaving it at home as one option and tearing out pages after you completed stages as another option to save weight and you would have thought I suggested a major crime with both responses based on people's replies.

I admit I do own a copy (plus a couple others), but quickly learned to do it my way. And yes - I do like to be on the outskirts of a Camino family (and hang with them only when I don't want to be alone), don't drink cafe con leche, we have enough churros at home so never even thought to get one in Spain, I did chunk that rock at the iron cross and thought "Um, why am I doing this?" lol. But I do like the Communal meals, I must admit. Back to the guidebook - I wish I had known about gronze before I

 

[pelerine]

Is it possible that off-stage means somewhat off-camino - that the camino does not go right through the town/village and you have to do a slight detour to reach an accommodation in such a town. Never having walked the CF I cannot say and maybe should not say anything.....

 

[Camineiro]

That makes total sense - but it is also the only guidebook I saw anyone pull out of their pack and I did see a few people from other non-English first language countries using it. Thinking back - I did see one person pull out another book.

Hi Jeanine,

on your next camino watch out for german speaking pilgrims.
They generally use either the “yellow outdoor guide“ or the “red Rother guide“.

French pilgrims might use the Miam Miam Dodo etc.

 

[trecile]

That makes total sense - but it is also the only guidebook I saw anyone pull out of their pack and I did see a few people from other non-English first language countries using it. Thinking back - I did see one person pull out another book.

You must not have walked with any Germans!

 

[Nick Barlow]

I didn't use the Brierley guide, and didn't really hear of it until I was close to beginning - I did have the Cicerone guide, though got an e-book version I could read on my phone to save weight!

Regardless of what the books said, though, I found that geography tended to make some towns more common end points than others. Given that most (but not all) pilgrims will stop in the cities on the Frances (Pamplona, Logrono, Burgos, Leon) there'll likely be places 20-25km (about an average day's walk) either side of them that will be popular and develop more albergues, bars etc, and then 20-25km from them there'll be another town etc... It's most dramatic after Sarria, where you've got 5 or 6 roughly even days stopping at Portomarin-Palais de Rei-Melide-Arzua-O Pedrouzo.

I wasn't intentionally following the stages in my guide, but I would often end up close to it, just because it matched the sort of pace I wanted to walk at. I do have a plan of going back to do the Frances again one day and attempting to avoid spending a night in any of the places I stopped last time, just to see how different it would feel that way, especially walking through a lot of the "stage towns" and cities.

 

[naplesdon]

On my third CF, I used the Michelin guide, number 160, I believe it was published in 2013. It is a small compact book of small maps which lays out the Camino and many other side roads, etc. like any good Michelin map would do. The reason I did this was due of getting lost on CF #2 when on one very foggy morning I followed some professed to be savvy, intrepid pilgrims who had "been there before" who lead me astray by about 10km north of Mulas de Mansilla.
Granted the book was published 10 years ago but then the roads in Spain haven't changed much in the past decades. The beauty of the book is that it is very small and fits in a pocket and the segments on each page are what fit on the pages of the book, so there are no prescribed stages with starting points or ending points; and better yet no chatter about mediation and points of interest. You can find a gas station, a cross road, a transport hub and best yet a path to get yourself back on "The Way."

 

[Rick M]

Is it possible that off-stage means somewhat off-camino - that the camino does not go right through the town/village and you have to do a slight detour to reach an accommodation in such a town. Never having walked the CF I cannot say and maybe should not say anything.....

I don't think so. It's not like a ski hill or park trail where there is a definite in-bounds and out-of-bounds, according to the supervising authority. There is no supervising authority on the Camino. I assure you, when the Camino goes through a town, it makes a B-Line for that town's church and main square. If you decide to stay in that town, you typically will wander around looking for other sites (or more appealing restaurants!) than are found on the guide route.

 

[Former member 92300]

You must not have walked with any Germans!

View attachment 142968

I did... but they didn't pull out any guide books. At least - not when I was around. But then again - it was just after reopening post COVID - less pilgrims - less guidebooks being pulled out.

 

[C clearly]

on any Camino website I have been on - it is by far the most recommended book

My guess is that you don't frequent non-English websites! And your Camino contacts were likely mostly English-speaking, so it gives a distorted view.

I think you will find very few Spanish-speaking, French, or German pilgrims pulling out Brierley! They have good options in their own languages.

 

[Esg]

My guess is that you don't frequent non-English websites! And your Camino contacts were likely mostly English-speaking, so it gives a distorted view.

I think you will find very few Spanish-speaking, French, or German pilgrims pulling out Brierley! They have good options in their own languages.

Hi C Clearly, in reference to this comment, is there a Forum in Spanish as this one? would you have its name available? Thanks.

 

[RJM]

Yep - on any Camino website I have been on - it is by far the most recommended book and sometimes it seems almost as if no other book exists haha. Someone was trying to find ways to decrease pack weight and planned to carry the book. I suggested leaving it at home as one option and tearing out pages after you completed stages as another option to save weight and you would have thought I suggested a major crime with both responses based on people's replies.

I admit I do own a copy (plus a couple others), but quickly learned to do it my way. And yes - I do like to be on the outskirts of a Camino family (and hang with them only when I don't want to be alone), don't drink cafe con leche, we have enough churros at home so never even thought to get one in Spain, I did chunk that rock at the iron cross and thought "Um, why am I doing this?" lol. But I do like the Communal meals, I must admit. Back to the guidebook - I wish I had known about gronze before I

I don't have to have a guidebook when I walk the Camino but I still always bring one and do use it as a reference from time to time and the weight of the book is minimal. Not even noticeable to me. I'm just not an app and device person on the Camino and quite honestly hope I never will be. I find them so detached from reality. I leave my phone off for most of my Camino.
I've walked past the iron cross five times and never once chunked a rock or anything at it.

 

[Former member 92300]

My guess is that you don't frequent non-English websites! And your Camino contacts were likely mostly English-speaking, so it gives a distorted view.

I think you will find very few Spanish-speaking, French, or German pilgrims pulling out Brierley! They have good options in their own languages.

Of course I am going from my experience... that is what we all refer to. My experience from online and my experience from ON the Camino. I saw lots of Brierly books. I saw maybe 1 other book. If there were others - I didn't see them. The vast majority of people were using ap - not books.

Why is this even an argument? I simply used Brierly as an example and heaven forbid I said it is "PROBABLY" the most popular guidebook. Never said it WAS the most popular guidebook. And of course there are lots of other guidebooks out there.

 

[C clearly]

Why is this even an argument?

As you said, we are describing our experiences. I don't think I have ever seen a Spanish, French or German pilgrim using Brierley; they use others. Isn't that a useful piece of information and balance? It is very easy (and we all do it) to see the world only through the lens of our individual experience. It is good to learn about others - it doesn't mean it's an argument.

is there a Forum in Spanish as this one?

There is a foro on Gronze.com, and there are many Facebook discussions. Perhaps other members can point to more sites.

 

[SabsP]

As you said, we are describing our experiences. I don't think I have ever seen a Spanish, French or German pilgrim using Brierley; they use others. Isn't that a useful piece of information and balance? It is very easy (and we all do it) to see the world only through the lens of our individual experience. It is good to learn about others - it doesn't mean it's an argument.


There is a foro on Gronze.com, and there are many Facebook discussions. Perhaps other members can point to more sites.

Exactly. On my first Camino I used the Dutch translation of the Spanish book by Paco Nadal.

El Camino de Santiago a pie | Paco Nadal

El País-Aguilar nos presenta la décima edición actualizada del Camino de Santiago a pie. Esta ...

www.libreriadesnivel.com

The Dutch version was used by a good amount of Dutch and Belgian pilgrims.
As was the Spanish version by the Spanish community.

Lots of Germans use the red Rotherguide.

https://www.rother.de/fr/camino-de-santiago-1.html

On later occasions I used the orginally French small guide from Michelin.

Michelin Zoom 160 Camino Frances > Camino Comfort

The famous Michelin Zoom 160 Camino Frances Map for the complete Camino Frances from Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port to Santiago de Compostela.

www.caminocomfort.com

I rather dislike the pseudo-spiritual drivel from Brierley .

 

[Esg]

There is a foro on Gronze.com, and there are many Facebook discussions. Perhaps other members can point to more sites.

Thank you C clearly. I have used Gronze, but I had not paid attention to the Foro tab. I will be checking info there too.

 

[Goyo]

Enter “guias del camino de Santiago” on your search engine and you will find numerous guides en español, the first one being “gronze.com”.

 

[C clearly]

Is Gronze an app, or just a website? I haven't been able to find it as an app.

Please see this thread for any further discuss of Gronze webiste and app.

 

[C clearly]

Six posts have been moved to this thread that discusses Gronze map and app questions.

 

[ncwep]

Thanks for referring me to the older posts. I did try to search this before asking, and for some reason, the old posts didn't come up. Sorry to rehash an old topic.

I love this site - it's been so helpful as I prepare for my first Camino. Thank you for making it available!

 

[wisepilgrim]

Being on-stage or off-stage in a guidebook or website depends on those books or sites having defined stages in the first place. Why they do so has always been a mystery to me, as it is inevitable that pilgrims will find themselves off-stage sooner or later and then reading the book becomes a nightmare of page flipping and calculating.

Regardless of what you use, walk at your own pace and never farther than you are comfortable doing.

 

[nilesite]

I really dislike the term “stage.” I stop whenever and wherever I like, ignoring the suggested stages. There’s really only one stage - from your house to the Cathedral. It’s much less confusing to look at it that way than to get caught up in someone else’s Camino. Do yours.

 

[StDenis]

Brierley created maps in his day job which explains his approach to his books. He broke up each camino into sections based on:

1. the average 25k per day (on Camino Frances) that many people were walking back in the early 2000s, and​

2. sufficient # of infrastructure (beds & food) at an endpoint, and​

3. the map between start and end points had to fit on a single page.​

As the subtitle says, Brierley wanted his books to be a practice AND mystical manual so each of these daily segments allowed him to include reflections about that day's path and for your personal journey.
Since Brierley says your distance per day will vary which is why each edition contains an upldated list of places you could stay anywhere along the way.

For the Camino Frances, you might want to take a look at Beebe Bahrami's book (Camino de Santiago). It is organized by province. I liked having more info on sights, history, reviews of accommodations across a range of price points and tips on the food and places to eat. Included is an insert that contains 8 maps of the Camino by province (roughly) and an overall contour map. This made it easier for me to visually understand distance and elevation between possible endpoints of my journey. I also found a spreadsheet that had distance and elevation between all towns which I used to create my potential stopping points. I took a printed copy and used it frequently to make adjustments based on my actual speed.

 

[WGroleau]

I think that's only true for English-speakers. And we are in the minority amongst pilgrims. The majority are speakers of other languages and have their own authors and guidebooks.

The number of people getting certificates in Santiago is 68% Spanish. But that's all of the routes. Along the Francés, Spain is apparently about ten percent. Santiago's statistics are https://catedral.df-server.info/est/index.html
My friends in Navarra hosted last year, 942 from English-speaking countries, plus I-don't-know-how-many from countries that don't have a guide in their language.