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What Does 'Light' or Ultra-Light Mean

davebugg

A Pilgrimage is time I spend praying with my feet
Time of past OR future Camino
2019
The Forum has not adopted an official Weight Terminology Definition Index as it applies to backpack weight. I can understand why. It is not vital, but labels like 'ultralight' or 'lightweight' are sometimes used in postings.

Perhaps it could be useful for some if there was a definition given for some weight-related terminology; to know what someone means when calling something 'light' or 'ultralight'. Such a standard currently exists elsewhere, but outside of the United States and North America backpacking and climbing community I have no idea if the same thing exists in Europe or the rest of the globe.

The need for an agreed-to set of objective definitions was said to have started for the purpose of settling the early onset of Alpha Male, Richard-measuring blather. Yup. nothing more needful than that. Not only would heated debate ensue about which backpack FELT lighter (no scales), but would then get sidetracked by the frenzied, "Nuh-uh! Ultralight means 12 pounds. Where did you come up with the silly notion that ultralight is 11 pounds?"

Standardizing weight categories became vital.. . well, useful. . .ok, perhaps just inevitable. As it turned out, however, it became a useful tool for other backpack, pre-trip functions.

Relative to any one, single item of gear or clothing, like trekking poles or ponchos or titanium sporks, there is no standard by which to define something as light or ultralight or heavy.. None. Nada.

To be certain, there are differences in weight if you look and compare the weight specifications of one titanium spork against another. So all that can be reasonably said about individual items, like trekking poles, backpacks, or hydration bladders, is that one item is either lighter or heavier than the other. Or what their stated weight is. Telling me that a rain jacket is ultra-light leaves me thinking, "Based on what?"

Note: Manufacturers will use terms like "ultra light" as marketing fodder. They want you to look at their stuff first. There is no "Official Agency of Ultra-lightness" that sanctions or defines these product label declarations. A manufacturer can legally call their 5o Kg sleeping bag 'ultralight', and do so with a straight face if they want to.

Given the amount and type of backpacking I do, I will look for the lightest piece of gear or clothing among those with the same functionality and usability and general quality. Usability is in the eye of the beholder. Some folks want zippers, others don't. Pockets, padding, rain resistance. . . the list of what is usable to a person is infinite. Well, it seems that way sometimes.

How are the 'weight' terms used? They are used to describe the combined weight of stuff in a backpack. Place everything inside your backpack and weigh the whole kabab. Once you have that figure written down, you can check and see how that weight is defined. If you want. Some folks only use the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index as a gauge for what works.

With the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index, you cram everything that you need and think you need and want to need into a backpack. Then, using your "Backpack Hydraulic Space Making Ram", compress everything down into a tight brick to make more space. Then add kitchen sinks, rice cookers, bowie knives, electric hair clippers, ukuleles, portable hair salons, a set of crescent wrenches.. . whatever you think you might start longing for. . Just In Case.

Then, put on the backpack. (cue up the motel room, off-to-the PCT scene from 'Wild'). If you are stuck to the floor, slither out of the backpack and toss out a few things. Then wash, rinse, repeat until you are able to at least stand. If you are still in pain, toss a bit more out. Keep at it until you say to yourself, "The feeling is coming back to my shoulders and hips, and my fingers don't look so blue. I think this will work".

Before I list the definitions about weight, it will help to learn a few other terms first.
.
Base Weight. This is the total weight of your entire gear load, including the backpack. It does not include consumables like food, water, and stove fuel. Consumables are not included because the amount varies based on how much you need to take, as well as being used up or eaten up.

Total Weight: This is your Base Weight + Consumables.

Full Skin Out (FSO) Weight: This is Base Weight + Consumables + Clothes you wear, dust that is sticking to you, dandruff flakes that didn't get washed out, last night's dinner, candy wrappers in your pocket, bedbugs in your hat, long hair past your collar. . .

I find FSO to be, well, tediously OCD. FSO does not translate into a meaningful thing because clothes do not mechanically impact the body core, balance, or the carry issues like a backpack's weight. Besides, clothing is constantly removed, added on, getting soaked with sweat or rain, gathering food stains, etc.

Of all the definitions above, Base Weight is the most valuable in helping you to figure out HOW to determine the gear and clothing choices available to lighten your load.

Finally, the weight is over. Here it is:

Stupid-Light (my adopted and derisive term): A base weight number that is lighter than Super-Ultralight.
This is a weight point that would require huge compromises to safety in exchange for lower weight. Backpackers that do this type of weight-culling can end up hurt or dead. And they have. In my mind, they are obliviots and don't get the fact that 'Luck' is not a real piece of gear.

Super-Ultralight (or Hyper-Light): A base weight under 5 pounds/.2.27 Kg.
I've seen it done, and I have put together a 'backpack' as a challenge, but have not used it. While there is little, to no margin for Oops type stuff to occur, it isn't quite as problematic as Stupid-Light.. At this weight, you are giving up comfort levels, while relying on knowledge and experience to compensate for a lack of stuff.

Ultra-Light: a base weight less than 10 pounds/4.5 Kg
There will be a some losses of comfort, and EVERYTING is a multitasker, like a titanium mug is your cooking pot, your measuring cup, your drinking cup, your scooping container to gather water that is in an awkward location, your backup water sterilizer if your filter dies. Using a plastic and lightweight tarp for a tent ( 1/2 ounce), a thinner, closed-cell, hip-length pad for a mattress. A sleeping quilt that is rated for a bit higher temperature than you might run into, so your clothing IS part of your sleep system. and on and on.

Lightweight: a base weight under 20 pounds/ 9 Kg.

Regular Weight: a base weight starting at 30 pounds / 13.6 Kg.
Today, heavy camera and video gear, along with gimbles and sticks and tripods and power banks and drones, etc. carried by semi-pro, content providers is one of the big reasons for tipping the scale toward this weight category. Then there are gear and clothing choices for Winter, high altitudes, hot and arid environments, etc. which will also become factors.

Semi-Related Thoughts:
Keep in mind that the above definitions are for wilderness backpackers on multi-day to multi-month hiking trips. The types and quantities of gear and clothing need to cover far more variables for the wilderness backpacker than for a Camino hiker in terms of temperature ranges, isolation, and total self-reliance.

Five decades ago as an almost 14 year-old on my first solo, multi-day backpacking trip, the base weight while using my dad's old 1960's era Army rucksack, tipped the scales at 54 pounds/24.5 Kg. Hipbelt? What is a hipbelt? By comparison today, for that same length for a multiday backpacking trip, my base weight will be about 13 pounds. Amazingly, this is just how far the technologies in materials and manufacturing have evolved.

For a Camino, the base weight of my backpack is around 8 to 10 pounds, depending on the season. Not having to include a tent or stove or air mattress or the other pieces of gear one needs in the wilderness makes it easy for experienced backpackers to hit this weight level.

Budget considerations for those choosing to purchase new stuff:
For many, all they want is for a piece of gear or clothing to make it just as far as Santiago de Compostela. If that is the case, then long term durability to last over many years and many thousand of kilometers is not needed. Quality only needs to complete the pilgrimage and to function properly along the way. This translates into a significant savings for gear and clothing costs. Plus, it is very possible to find clothing and gear light enough that it will make you happy.

But Wait, There's More. . .

At some point in the first 24 hours of walking, no matter which Weight Definition your backpack matches, you may decide that the pack is still too heavy and start pulling out stuff and leaving it behind like some kind of Camino version of Hansel and Gretel's bread crumb trail.

It is not inevitable that frantic gear dumping will occur. All I can say is that the ratio of gear dumping is likely proportional to where your backpack resides on the Weight Definition Scale.

At the Stupid-Light level, if you run into an unexpected sub-zero ice storm on the Col de Lepoeder your worries about backpack weight no longer exist. Just sayin'.

At the other end of the spectrum with The Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index, the decision to dump stuff at the alburgue donation spot may be so bountiful that the hospitaleros decide to open a thrift shop.

"Ounces equal Pounds, and Pounds Equal Pain." Translate it into metric if you must, but it just didn't sound as kewl.
 
New Original Camino Gear Designed Especially with The Modern Peregrino In Mind!
The Forum has not adopted an official Weight Terminology Definition Index as it applies to backpack weight. I can understand why. It is not vital, but labels like 'ultralight' or 'lightweight' are sometimes used in postings.

Perhaps it could be useful for some if there was a definition given for some weight-related terminology; to know what someone means when calling something 'light' or 'ultralight'. Such a standard currently exists elsewhere, but outside of the United States and North America backpacking and climbing community I have no idea if the same thing exists in Europe or the rest of the globe.

The need for an agreed-to set of objective definitions was said to have started for the purpose of settling the early onset of Alpha Male, Richard-measuring blather. Yup. nothing more needful than that. Not only would heated debate ensue about which backpack FELT lighter (no scales), but would then get sidetracked by the frenzied, "Nuh-uh! Ultralight means 12 pounds. Where did you come up with the silly notion that ultralight is 11 pounds?"

Standardizing weight categories became vital.. . well, useful. . .ok, perhaps just inevitable. As it turned out, however, it became a useful tool for other backpack, pre-trip functions.

Relative to any one, single item of gear or clothing, like trekking poles or ponchos or titanium sporks, there is no standard by which to define something as light or ultralight or heavy.. None. Nada.

To be certain, there are differences in weight if you look and compare the weight specifications of one titanium spork against another. So all that can be reasonably said about individual items, like trekking poles, backpacks, or hydration bladders, is that one item is either lighter or heavier than the other. Or what their stated weight is. Telling me that a rain jacket is ultra-light leaves me thinking, "Based on what?"

Note: Manufacturers will use terms like "ultra light" as marketing fodder. They want you to look at their stuff first. There is no "Official Agency of Ultra-lightness" that sanctions or defines these product label declarations. A manufacturer can legally call their 5o Kg sleeping bag 'ultralight', and do so with a straight face if they want to.

Given the amount and type of backpacking I do, I will look for the lightest piece of gear or clothing among those with the same functionality and usability and general quality. Usability is in the eye of the beholder. Some folks want zippers, others don't. Pockets, padding, rain resistance. . . the list of what is usable to a person is infinite. Well, it seems that way sometimes.

How are the 'weight' terms used? They are used to describe the combined weight of stuff in a backpack. Place everything inside your backpack and weigh the whole kabab. Once you have that figure written down, you can check and see how that weight is defined. If you want. Some folks only use the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index as a gauge for what works.

With the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index, you cram everything that you need and think you need and want to need into a backpack. Then, using your "Backpack Hydraulic Space Making Ram", compress everything down into a tight brick to make more space. Then add kitchen sinks, rice cookers, bowie knives, electric hair clippers, ukuleles, portable hair salons, a set of crescent wrenches.. . whatever you think you might start longing for. . Just In Case.

Then, put on the backpack. (cue up the motel room, off-to-the PCT scene from 'Wild'). If you are stuck to the floor, slither out of the backpack and toss out a few things. Then wash, rinse, repeat until you are able to at least stand. If you are still in pain, toss a bit more out. Keep at it until you say to yourself, "The feeling is coming back to my shoulders and hips, and my fingers don't look so blue. I think this will work".

Before I list the definitions about weight, it will help to learn a few other terms first.
.
Base Weight. This is the total weight of your entire gear load, including the backpack. It does not include consumables like food, water, and stove fuel. Consumables are not included because the amount varies based on how much you need to take, as well as being used up or eaten up.

Total Weight: This is your Base Weight + Consumables.

Full Skin Out (FSO) Weight: This is Base Weight + Consumables + Clothes you wear, dust that is sticking to you, dandruff flakes that didn't get washed out, last night's dinner, candy wrappers in your pocket, bedbugs in your hat, long hair past your collar. . .

I find FSO to be, well, tediously OCD. FSO does not translate into a meaningful thing because clothes do not mechanically impact the body core, balance, or the carry issues like a backpack's weight. Besides, clothing is constantly removed, added on, getting soaked with sweat or rain, gathering food stains, etc.

Of all the definitions above, Base Weight is the most valuable in helping you to figure out HOW to determine the gear and clothing choices available to lighten your load.

Finally, the weight is over. Here it is:

Stupid-Light (my adopted and derisive term): A base weight number that is lighter than Super-Ultralight.
This is a weight point that would require huge compromises to safety in exchange for lower weight. Backpackers that do this type of weight-culling can end up hurt or dead. And they have. In my mind, they are obliviots and don't get the fact that 'Luck' is not a real piece of gear.

Super-Ultralight (or Hyper-Light): A base weight under 5 pounds/.2.27 Kg.
I've seen it done, and I have put together a 'backpack' as a challenge, but have not used it. While there is little, to no margin for Oops type stuff to occur, it isn't quite as problematic as Stupid-Light.. At this weight, you are giving up comfort levels, while relying on knowledge and experience to compensate for a lack of stuff.

Ultra-Light: a base weight less than 10 pounds/4.5 Kg
There will be a some losses of comfort, and EVERYTING is a multitasker, like a titanium mug is your cooking pot, your measuring cup, your drinking cup, your scooping container to gather water that is in an awkward location, your backup water sterilizer if your filter dies. Using a plastic and lightweight tarp for a tent ( 1/2 ounce), a thinner, closed-cell, hip-length pad for a mattress. A sleeping quilt that is rated for a bit higher temperature than you might run into, so your clothing IS part of your sleep system. and on and on.

Lightweight: a base weight under 20 pounds/ 9 Kg.

Regular Weight: a base weight starting at 30 pounds / 13.6 Kg.
Today, heavy camera and video gear, along with gimbles and sticks and tripods and power banks and drones, etc. carried by semi-pro, content providers is one of the big reasons for tipping the scale toward this weight category. Then there are gear and clothing choices for Winter, high altitudes, hot and arid environments, etc. which will also become factors.

Semi-Related Thoughts:
Keep in mind that the above definitions are for wilderness backpackers on multi-day to multi-month hiking trips. The types and quantities of gear and clothing need to cover far more variables for the wilderness backpacker than for a Camino hiker in terms of temperature ranges, isolation, and total self-reliance.

Five decades ago as an almost 14 year-old on my first solo, multi-day backpacking trip, the base weight while using my dad's old 1960's era Army rucksack, tipped the scales at 54 pounds/24.5 Kg. Hipbelt? What is a hipbelt? By comparison today, for that same length for a multiday backpacking trip, my base weight will be about 13 pounds. Amazingly, this is just how far the technologies in materials and manufacturing have evolved.

For a Camino, the base weight of my backpack is around 8 to 10 pounds, depending on the season. Not having to include a tent or stove or air mattress or the other pieces of gear one needs in the wilderness makes it easy for experienced backpackers to hit this weight level.

Budget considerations for those choosing to purchase new stuff:
For many, all they want is for a piece of gear or clothing to make it just as far as Santiago de Compostela. If that is the case, then long term durability to last over many years and many thousand of kilometers is not needed. Quality only needs to complete the pilgrimage and to function properly along the way. This translates into a significant savings for gear and clothing costs. Plus, it is very possible to find clothing and gear light enough that it will make you happy.

But Wait, There's More. . .

At some point in the first 24 hours of walking, no matter which Weight Definition your backpack matches, you may decide that the pack is still too heavy and start pulling out stuff and leaving it behind like some kind of Camino version of Hansel and Gretel's bread crumb trail.

It is not inevitable that frantic gear dumping will occur. All I can say is that the ratio of gear dumping is likely proportional to where your backpack resides on the Weight Definition Scale.

At the Stupid-Light level, if you run into an unexpected sub-zero ice storm on the Col de Lepoeder your worries about backpack weight no longer exist. Just sayin'.

At the other end of the spectrum with The Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index, the decision to dump stuff at the alburgue donation spot may be so bountiful that the hospitaleros decide to open a thrift shop.

"Ounces equal Pounds, and Pounds Equal Pain." Translate it into metric if you must, but it just didn't sound as kewl.
wonderful stuff! and not before time either. Even at 83 and with a fair amount of experience under my belt, I have got myself confused as to who means what when talking lightweight! I regard a lot of claims to be the pilgrim's equivalent of "go-fast" stripes on cars!

Buen camino and best wishes :)

Samarkand.
 
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-
Very nice post Dave! Thanks for that.
It is sometimes hard to remember, that most folks will likely never have heard about ultralight (in terms of hiking) when they decide to set for a camino. At least, that was the case when I did... Luckily google pointed me to the right forum before i went into my local sporting goods store :)

I feel, we need to talk a bit about the definition of the singular items. I agree absolutely, that there is no "definite metric" for when an item is ultralight or is not. But i think, there are ranges, of when an item can be considered "ultralight".
Take jackets. There are those waxed, cotton jackets that one could use as a rain jacket, and theres synthetic shell jackets weighing in at a fraction. Theres the good old army surplus sleeping bag, and the extremely light down sleeping bag. And so on.
Of course, and i agree here, it is hard to come up with general numbers for each item. But one possible definition of an ultralight item could be " Item with a minimal weight compared to it's used/needed features".... or something along that thought.
(example: my skiing/snoboarding backpack is significantly heavier than my hiking backpacks. But it's alright, cause it needs the abrasion resistance and thus has to be of a sturdier build)
 
Davebugg,

Thank you for these definitions/explainations.
Your following statement re Luck, especially, should be memorized by all.

"Stupid-Light (my adopted and derisive term): A base weight number that is lighter than Super-Ultralight.
This is a weight point that would require huge compromises to safety in exchange for lower weight. Backpackers that do this type of weight-culling can end up hurt or dead. And they have. In my mind, they are obliviots and don't get the fact that 'Luck' is not a real piece of gear"
 
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Often the English language is more useful and accurate if adjectives and adverbs are not used.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
"......Perhaps it could be useful for some if there was a definition given for some weight-related terminology; to know what someone means when calling something 'light' or 'ultralight'. Such a standard currently exists elsewhere, but outside of the United States and North America backpacking and climbing community I have no idea if the same thing exists in Europe or the rest of the globe......"


I have seen lightweight defined on some Australian walking sites as under 10kg, with ultralight under 5kg. 'Stupid Light' is also a term used occasionally, usually in concert with 'unprepared' or 'should not be allowed out without a leash' when discussing the latest wilderness misadeventure to make the news.
 
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With the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index, you cram everything that you need and think you need and want to need into a backpack. Then, using your "Backpack Hydraulic Space Making Ram", compress everything down into a tight brick to make more space. Then add kitchen sinks, rice cookers, bowie knives, electric hair clippers, ukuleles, portable hair salons, a set of crescent wrenches.. . whatever you think you might start longing for. . Just In Case.
Or just buy it all here.

'Luck' is not a real piece of gear.
Luck is a superpower.
 
There are many backpacking websites that use the words ‘ultralight’ and ‘ultra-lite’ when describing backpacks. But to qualify as an ultra-light backpack, I only consider packs that weigh 1 kg or 2.2 lbs and under because I don’t think of anything over 1 kg or 2.2 lbs as being ultra-light!
New generation backpacks are made of ultra-lightweight, rip-stop fabrics (like the Gossamer Gear Murmer) and have features like foam backing for comfort and rigidity, hip belts that can be stuffed with socks or towels, and are stripped of extraneous extras like ice-pole hooks, ski fittings, etc.
Some people say that weight doesn’t matter – that comfort is the most important thing and that if you have a pack with a good, strong padded waist belt that takes all the weight on your hips you’ll be fine. That is okay for big, strong people who can carry heavy weights on their hips. It makes a huge difference if you are a small person, 5’3” or 160 cm tall, and weigh around 55 kg or 121 lbs. That person will find it difficult to carry heavy weights on hips or back. Some people have back problems or other reasons why they can’t carry heavy packs and this makes the weight of the pack itself an important factor.
The pack I have used on many pilgrimage trails, long and short, is the 32lt OMM (Original Mountain Marathon) pack that weighs about 600g when empty. My husband uses a Mariposa that weighs 280g empty.
 
St James' Way - Self-guided 4-7 day Walking Packages, Reading to Southampton, 110 kms
@davebugg, pondering all your wisdom makes me think before my next Camino I should humbly make a Pilgrimage to your place.
My description: 5.4 and 1/2 (yes, ☺️ To me it counts) 129 lbs give or take a couple of slices of pan Gallego. 67 years old. Scoliosis, need a left shoulder replacement and osteoarthritis so I have to think hard when I clip or tie anything to get it done.
My dilemma: had my pack fitted, Osprey Manta 34L, carried the bare essentials, nothing more, less than 11 pounds including pack and 1/2 litter of water. Made adjustments on the go as needed. At day 2, horrible neck and left shoulder pain, munching aspirins like others munch trail mix. Was dying and sent my pack ahead to salvage my mini early this June Sanabres Ourense to Santiago. Any advice? Help me Dave!!!!
Aymarah
 
Candidly, I'd change the weight parameters for the Camino. Those weight definitions are typical for backpacking in the U.S. Where we have to carry tents, stoves, and much heavier sleeping bags to deal with cold mountain weather. The Caminio is not backpacking.

I can (and do) carry things like my Native American double flute, a half pound camera, and an extra pair of shoes and still keep my Camino pack baseweight below 10 pounds. My wife's Camino baseweight is under 5 pounds without really trying. And frankly, I cannot begin to imagine what all I would have to be carrying to get past 20 pounds baseweight and hence the "lightweight" category (karaoke machine?). Although I just returned from the Primitivo and swear I saw people with 30+ pound packs (I was too frightened to ask what they had in them).

For me, I'd probably put Super-Ultralight as up to 2kg; Ultralight up to 4kg; Light up to 6kg; and everything else is just too heavy for me to contemplate. Others are different and I respect that. Those with heavy packs on the Primitivo would always say something like "I don't really feel it." And that may be true. But they had knee or foot problems and you could just tell that there bodies were definitely feeling it, whether they were conscious of the damage or not.

Feel free to walk your own Camino and ignore my opinions,
Jo Jo
 
@Jo Jo I do agree, that one should take into account the differences. With my ~3,5kg packing List, i still have multiple sets of clothing and don't really have cut out anything that might provide comfort when needed.
Personally, i don't have the urge to go lighter. I might cut another 1kg out of it, but then, i might regret not having a buttoned shirt to wear when i feel like it :)
I guess, at some point the benefit from leaving something at home might not be worth the savings in weight. But thats likely what those guys on the Primitivo where saying as well ;-)
 
St James' Way - Self-guided 4-7 day Walking Packages, Reading to Southampton, 110 kms
But thats likely what those guys on the Primitivo where saying as well ;-)
No, they were saying that they "needed" it. They did not realize it was a choice. One of the spiritual lessons I learned on my very first Camino was exactly how little I actually needed. That lesson allowed me to get rid of enough stuff to move into a Manhattan apartment. I suspect that the mochila transport services are depriving many pilgrims of that lesson. Well, the universe will eventually teach that lesson even if the Camino doesn't.
 
There are many backpacking websites that use the words ‘ultralight’ and ‘ultra-lite’ when describing backpacks. But to qualify as an ultra-light backpack, I only consider packs that weigh 1 kg or 2.2 lbs and under because I don’t think of anything over 1 kg or 2.2 lbs as being ultra-light!
I wouldn't even call a backpack that weighs 1 kg ultralight, but simply light.
No, when I think ultralight I think of a backpack that weighs less than half a kg, like this 248gm/8.7 oz backpack from Zpacks.


Gossamer Gear has categorized their backpacks as Ultralight, Superlight, and Hyperlight!
 
There are many backpacking websites that use the words ‘ultralight’ and ‘ultra-lite’ when describing backpacks. But to qualify as an ultra-light backpack, I only consider packs that weigh 1 kg or 2.2 lbs and under because I don’t think of anything over 1 kg or 2.2 lbs as being ultra-light!

That is true. And it can be tedious to discover that a label does not met your definition when you are shopping; it is, instead, a meaningless, marketing label which offers no comparatives that set a baseline.

Since there has been no official gathering of the "Backpack Manufacturers Weight Certification Committee and Inquisition" to give us The Official Word, we are left to our own devices for what is what. We all sorta do exactly what you are doing. . . we establish our own subjective standard of what is, or isn't 'ultra-lite' when looking at individual bits of gear.

And we really aren't all that affected doing our own comparisons of gear based on weight, and deciding what meets our criteria for 'light' or 'ultra-light'. It would just make it a bit faster for the selection process if we could trust that a label saying 'ultra-light' met a universally agreed upon weight range..

Last year (?) there was a YouTube content provider that created a series of Camino Norte videos. Often he used the term 'ultralight' when showcasing a tent or a sleeping bag, etc. His view of what 'ultralight' was versus mine was quite different, with him stating weights that could be 1 to 1.5 kg higher than what I considered 'ultralight for a category of gear.

I wonder what weight range the pork industry considers to be an 'ultra-light' jamon?
 
Very light, comfortable and compressible poncho. Specially designed for protection against water for any activity.

Our Atmospheric H30 poncho offers lightness and waterproofness. Easily compressible and made with our Waterproof fabric, its heat-sealed interior seams guarantee its waterproofness. Includes carrying bag.

€60,-
@davebugg, pondering all your wisdom makes me think before my next Camino I should humbly make a Pilgrimage to your place.
My description: 5.4 and 1/2 (yes, ☺️ To me it counts) 129 lbs give or take a couple of slices of pan Gallego. 67 years old. Scoliosis, need a left shoulder replacement and osteoarthritis so I have to think hard when I clip or tie anything to get it done.
My dilemma: had my pack fitted, Osprey Manta 34L, carried the bare essentials, nothing more, less than 11 pounds including pack and 1/2 litter of water. Made adjustments on the go as needed. At day 2, horrible neck and left shoulder pain, munching aspirins like others munch trail mix. Was dying and sent my pack ahead to salvage my mini early this June Sanabres Ourense to Santiago. Any advice? Help me Dave!!!!
Aymarah

Would you shoot me a PM, and I'll see if I can help.
 
Candidly, I'd change the weight parameters for the Camino. Those weight definitions are typical for backpacking in the U.S. Where we have to carry tents, stoves, and much heavier sleeping bags to deal with cold mountain weather. The Caminio is not backpacking.

I can (and do) carry things like my Native American double flute, a half pound camera, and an extra pair of shoes and still keep my Camino pack baseweight below 10 pounds. My wife's Camino baseweight is under 5 pounds without really trying. And frankly, I cannot begin to imagine what all I would have to be carrying to get past 20 pounds baseweight and hence the "lightweight" category (karaoke machine?). Although I just returned from the Primitivo and swear I saw people with 30+ pound packs (I was too frightened to ask what they had in them).

For me, I'd probably put Super-Ultralight as up to 2kg; Ultralight up to 4kg; Light up to 6kg; and everything else is just too heavy for me to contemplate. Others are different and I respect that. Those with heavy packs on the Primitivo would always say something like "I don't really feel it." And that may be true. But they had knee or foot problems and you could just tell that there bodies were definitely feeling it, whether they were conscious of the damage or not.

Feel free to walk your own Camino and ignore my opinions,
Jo Jo

You sorta identified why using terms like 'ultralight' does not accurately define the real-world impact of our backpack weight to our bodies.

I know what total backpack weight I prefer on a Camino. It is a weight that does not detract from the enjoyment of my walk or hike, and it does not cause the backpack to draw my attention to itself while I am wearing it. I try to keep the total weight at, or below that total weight.

I use a portable, hanging-style luggage scale to check the weight of my backpack. It is an objective device that helps me keep my pack's weight to my preferred level. It helps me make choices. . which item I take and which item gets left.

I do not pack to meet a definition, like ultra-light. I pack to keep my backpack as light as possible for the type of backpacking trip I'm doing. if someone asks if my base weight is ultralight, I can give him/her my weight and they can decide.
 
St James' Way - Self-guided 4-7 day Walking Packages, Reading to Southampton, 110 kms
The Forum has not adopted an official Weight Terminology Definition Index as it applies to backpack weight. I can understand why. It is not vital, but labels like 'ultralight' or 'lightweight' are sometimes used in postings.

Perhaps it could be useful for some if there was a definition given for some weight-related terminology; to know what someone means when calling something 'light' or 'ultralight'. Such a standard currently exists elsewhere, but outside of the United States and North America backpacking and climbing community I have no idea if the same thing exists in Europe or the rest of the globe.

The need for an agreed-to set of objective definitions was said to have started for the purpose of settling the early onset of Alpha Male, Richard-measuring blather. Yup. nothing more needful than that. Not only would heated debate ensue about which backpack FELT lighter (no scales), but would then get sidetracked by the frenzied, "Nuh-uh! Ultralight means 12 pounds. Where did you come up with the silly notion that ultralight is 11 pounds?"

Standardizing weight categories became vital.. . well, useful. . .ok, perhaps just inevitable. As it turned out, however, it became a useful tool for other backpack, pre-trip functions.

Relative to any one, single item of gear or clothing, like trekking poles or ponchos or titanium sporks, there is no standard by which to define something as light or ultralight or heavy.. None. Nada.

To be certain, there are differences in weight if you look and compare the weight specifications of one titanium spork against another. So all that can be reasonably said about individual items, like trekking poles, backpacks, or hydration bladders, is that one item is either lighter or heavier than the other. Or what their stated weight is. Telling me that a rain jacket is ultra-light leaves me thinking, "Based on what?"

Note: Manufacturers will use terms like "ultra light" as marketing fodder. They want you to look at their stuff first. There is no "Official Agency of Ultra-lightness" that sanctions or defines these product label declarations. A manufacturer can legally call their 5o Kg sleeping bag 'ultralight', and do so with a straight face if they want to.

Given the amount and type of backpacking I do, I will look for the lightest piece of gear or clothing among those with the same functionality and usability and general quality. Usability is in the eye of the beholder. Some folks want zippers, others don't. Pockets, padding, rain resistance. . . the list of what is usable to a person is infinite. Well, it seems that way sometimes.

How are the 'weight' terms used? They are used to describe the combined weight of stuff in a backpack. Place everything inside your backpack and weigh the whole kabab. Once you have that figure written down, you can check and see how that weight is defined. If you want. Some folks only use the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index as a gauge for what works.

With the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index, you cram everything that you need and think you need and want to need into a backpack. Then, using your "Backpack Hydraulic Space Making Ram", compress everything down into a tight brick to make more space. Then add kitchen sinks, rice cookers, bowie knives, electric hair clippers, ukuleles, portable hair salons, a set of crescent wrenches.. . whatever you think you might start longing for. . Just In Case.

Then, put on the backpack. (cue up the motel room, off-to-the PCT scene from 'Wild'). If you are stuck to the floor, slither out of the backpack and toss out a few things. Then wash, rinse, repeat until you are able to at least stand. If you are still in pain, toss a bit more out. Keep at it until you say to yourself, "The feeling is coming back to my shoulders and hips, and my fingers don't look so blue. I think this will work".

Before I list the definitions about weight, it will help to learn a few other terms first.
.
Base Weight. This is the total weight of your entire gear load, including the backpack. It does not include consumables like food, water, and stove fuel. Consumables are not included because the amount varies based on how much you need to take, as well as being used up or eaten up.

Total Weight: This is your Base Weight + Consumables.

Full Skin Out (FSO) Weight: This is Base Weight + Consumables + Clothes you wear, dust that is sticking to you, dandruff flakes that didn't get washed out, last night's dinner, candy wrappers in your pocket, bedbugs in your hat, long hair past your collar. . .

I find FSO to be, well, tediously OCD. FSO does not translate into a meaningful thing because clothes do not mechanically impact the body core, balance, or the carry issues like a backpack's weight. Besides, clothing is constantly removed, added on, getting soaked with sweat or rain, gathering food stains, etc.

Of all the definitions above, Base Weight is the most valuable in helping you to figure out HOW to determine the gear and clothing choices available to lighten your load.

Finally, the weight is over. Here it is:

Stupid-Light (my adopted and derisive term): A base weight number that is lighter than Super-Ultralight.
This is a weight point that would require huge compromises to safety in exchange for lower weight. Backpackers that do this type of weight-culling can end up hurt or dead. And they have. In my mind, they are obliviots and don't get the fact that 'Luck' is not a real piece of gear.

Super-Ultralight (or Hyper-Light): A base weight under 5 pounds/.2.27 Kg.
I've seen it done, and I have put together a 'backpack' as a challenge, but have not used it. While there is little, to no margin for Oops type stuff to occur, it isn't quite as problematic as Stupid-Light.. At this weight, you are giving up comfort levels, while relying on knowledge and experience to compensate for a lack of stuff.

Ultra-Light: a base weight less than 10 pounds/4.5 Kg
There will be a some losses of comfort, and EVERYTING is a multitasker, like a titanium mug is your cooking pot, your measuring cup, your drinking cup, your scooping container to gather water that is in an awkward location, your backup water sterilizer if your filter dies. Using a plastic and lightweight tarp for a tent ( 1/2 ounce), a thinner, closed-cell, hip-length pad for a mattress. A sleeping quilt that is rated for a bit higher temperature than you might run into, so your clothing IS part of your sleep system. and on and on.

Lightweight: a base weight under 20 pounds/ 9 Kg.

Regular Weight: a base weight starting at 30 pounds / 13.6 Kg.
Today, heavy camera and video gear, along with gimbles and sticks and tripods and power banks and drones, etc. carried by semi-pro, content providers is one of the big reasons for tipping the scale toward this weight category. Then there are gear and clothing choices for Winter, high altitudes, hot and arid environments, etc. which will also become factors.

Semi-Related Thoughts:
Keep in mind that the above definitions are for wilderness backpackers on multi-day to multi-month hiking trips. The types and quantities of gear and clothing need to cover far more variables for the wilderness backpacker than for a Camino hiker in terms of temperature ranges, isolation, and total self-reliance.

Five decades ago as an almost 14 year-old on my first solo, multi-day backpacking trip, the base weight while using my dad's old 1960's era Army rucksack, tipped the scales at 54 pounds/24.5 Kg. Hipbelt? What is a hipbelt? By comparison today, for that same length for a multiday backpacking trip, my base weight will be about 13 pounds. Amazingly, this is just how far the technologies in materials and manufacturing have evolved.

For a Camino, the base weight of my backpack is around 8 to 10 pounds, depending on the season. Not having to include a tent or stove or air mattress or the other pieces of gear one needs in the wilderness makes it easy for experienced backpackers to hit this weight level.

Budget considerations for those choosing to purchase new stuff:
For many, all they want is for a piece of gear or clothing to make it just as far as Santiago de Compostela. If that is the case, then long term durability to last over many years and many thousand of kilometers is not needed. Quality only needs to complete the pilgrimage and to function properly along the way. This translates into a significant savings for gear and clothing costs. Plus, it is very possible to find clothing and gear light enough that it will make you happy.

But Wait, There's More. . .

At some point in the first 24 hours of walking, no matter which Weight Definition your backpack matches, you may decide that the pack is still too heavy and start pulling out stuff and leaving it behind like some kind of Camino version of Hansel and Gretel's bread crumb trail.

It is not inevitable that frantic gear dumping will occur. All I can say is that the ratio of gear dumping is likely proportional to where your backpack resides on the Weight Definition Scale.

At the Stupid-Light level, if you run into an unexpected sub-zero ice storm on the Col de Lepoeder your worries about backpack weight no longer exist. Just sayin'.

At the other end of the spectrum with The Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index, the decision to dump stuff at the alburgue donation spot may be so bountiful that the hospitaleros decide to open a thrift shop.

"Ounces equal Pounds, and Pounds Equal Pain." Translate it into metric if you must, but it just didn't sound as kewl.
Oh, thank you!
 
Down bag (90/10 duvet) of 700 fills with 180 g (6.34 ounces) of filling. Mummy-shaped structure, ideal when you are looking for lightness with great heating performance.

€149,-
In reality the CF can almost be walked using your definition of stupid light. There are individual days (I can think of 3) where it would be truly stupid, on the rest there are enough shops to help temporarily. For example why carry more than one set of underwear /socks when there are so many places to buy new when needed. Trousers, no need for spares, buy when necessary etc. The CF in particular is no wilderness trail with its frequent coffee stops, chinos, supermarkets, Albergues.
Very much tongue in cheek and with no intention of doing so, I reckon you could do it, on top of the clothes you're wearing, with a plastic carrier bag, one set of socks and scanties spare plus a waterproof wallet with necessary paperwork and a large bin liner adapted as a poncho. 😁😂🤣😄
 
In reality the CF can almost be walked using your definition of stupid light. .....
Very much tongue in cheek and with no intention of doing so, I reckon you could do it, on top of the clothes you're wearing, with a plastic carrier bag, one set of socks and scanties spare plus a waterproof wallet with necessary paperwork and a large bin liner adapted as a poncho. 😁😂🤣😄
Indeed.
In happier times during February 2008
in Ferreiros at the provincial albergue I met a
fellow who simply carried two plastic shopping bags.
Everyone joked he would arrive in Santiago with very long arms.
 
Last edited:
The Forum has not adopted an official Weight Terminology Definition Index as it applies to backpack weight. I can understand why. It is not vital, but labels like 'ultralight' or 'lightweight' are sometimes used in postings.

Perhaps it could be useful for some if there was a definition given for some weight-related terminology; to know what someone means when calling something 'light' or 'ultralight'. Such a standard currently exists elsewhere, but outside of the United States and North America backpacking and climbing community I have no idea if the same thing exists in Europe or the rest of the globe.

The need for an agreed-to set of objective definitions was said to have started for the purpose of settling the early onset of Alpha Male, Richard-measuring blather. Yup. nothing more needful than that. Not only would heated debate ensue about which backpack FELT lighter (no scales), but would then get sidetracked by the frenzied, "Nuh-uh! Ultralight means 12 pounds. Where did you come up with the silly notion that ultralight is 11 pounds?"

Standardizing weight categories became vital.. . well, useful. . .ok, perhaps just inevitable. As it turned out, however, it became a useful tool for other backpack, pre-trip functions.

Relative to any one, single item of gear or clothing, like trekking poles or ponchos or titanium sporks, there is no standard by which to define something as light or ultralight or heavy.. None. Nada.

To be certain, there are differences in weight if you look and compare the weight specifications of one titanium spork against another. So all that can be reasonably said about individual items, like trekking poles, backpacks, or hydration bladders, is that one item is either lighter or heavier than the other. Or what their stated weight is. Telling me that a rain jacket is ultra-light leaves me thinking, "Based on what?"

Note: Manufacturers will use terms like "ultra light" as marketing fodder. They want you to look at their stuff first. There is no "Official Agency of Ultra-lightness" that sanctions or defines these product label declarations. A manufacturer can legally call their 5o Kg sleeping bag 'ultralight', and do so with a straight face if they want to.

Given the amount and type of backpacking I do, I will look for the lightest piece of gear or clothing among those with the same functionality and usability and general quality. Usability is in the eye of the beholder. Some folks want zippers, others don't. Pockets, padding, rain resistance. . . the list of what is usable to a person is infinite. Well, it seems that way sometimes.

How are the 'weight' terms used? They are used to describe the combined weight of stuff in a backpack. Place everything inside your backpack and weigh the whole kabab. Once you have that figure written down, you can check and see how that weight is defined. If you want. Some folks only use the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index as a gauge for what works.

With the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index, you cram everything that you need and think you need and want to need into a backpack. Then, using your "Backpack Hydraulic Space Making Ram", compress everything down into a tight brick to make more space. Then add kitchen sinks, rice cookers, bowie knives, electric hair clippers, ukuleles, portable hair salons, a set of crescent wrenches.. . whatever you think you might start longing for. . Just In Case.

Then, put on the backpack. (cue up the motel room, off-to-the PCT scene from 'Wild'). If you are stuck to the floor, slither out of the backpack and toss out a few things. Then wash, rinse, repeat until you are able to at least stand. If you are still in pain, toss a bit more out. Keep at it until you say to yourself, "The feeling is coming back to my shoulders and hips, and my fingers don't look so blue. I think this will work".

Before I list the definitions about weight, it will help to learn a few other terms first.
.
Base Weight. This is the total weight of your entire gear load, including the backpack. It does not include consumables like food, water, and stove fuel. Consumables are not included because the amount varies based on how much you need to take, as well as being used up or eaten up.

Total Weight: This is your Base Weight + Consumables.

Full Skin Out (FSO) Weight: This is Base Weight + Consumables + Clothes you wear, dust that is sticking to you, dandruff flakes that didn't get washed out, last night's dinner, candy wrappers in your pocket, bedbugs in your hat, long hair past your collar. . .

I find FSO to be, well, tediously OCD. FSO does not translate into a meaningful thing because clothes do not mechanically impact the body core, balance, or the carry issues like a backpack's weight. Besides, clothing is constantly removed, added on, getting soaked with sweat or rain, gathering food stains, etc.

Of all the definitions above, Base Weight is the most valuable in helping you to figure out HOW to determine the gear and clothing choices available to lighten your load.

Finally, the weight is over. Here it is:

Stupid-Light (my adopted and derisive term): A base weight number that is lighter than Super-Ultralight.
This is a weight point that would require huge compromises to safety in exchange for lower weight. Backpackers that do this type of weight-culling can end up hurt or dead. And they have. In my mind, they are obliviots and don't get the fact that 'Luck' is not a real piece of gear.

Super-Ultralight (or Hyper-Light): A base weight under 5 pounds/.2.27 Kg.
I've seen it done, and I have put together a 'backpack' as a challenge, but have not used it. While there is little, to no margin for Oops type stuff to occur, it isn't quite as problematic as Stupid-Light.. At this weight, you are giving up comfort levels, while relying on knowledge and experience to compensate for a lack of stuff.

Ultra-Light: a base weight less than 10 pounds/4.5 Kg
There will be a some losses of comfort, and EVERYTING is a multitasker, like a titanium mug is your cooking pot, your measuring cup, your drinking cup, your scooping container to gather water that is in an awkward location, your backup water sterilizer if your filter dies. Using a plastic and lightweight tarp for a tent ( 1/2 ounce), a thinner, closed-cell, hip-length pad for a mattress. A sleeping quilt that is rated for a bit higher temperature than you might run into, so your clothing IS part of your sleep system. and on and on.

Lightweight: a base weight under 20 pounds/ 9 Kg.

Regular Weight: a base weight starting at 30 pounds / 13.6 Kg.
Today, heavy camera and video gear, along with gimbles and sticks and tripods and power banks and drones, etc. carried by semi-pro, content providers is one of the big reasons for tipping the scale toward this weight category. Then there are gear and clothing choices for Winter, high altitudes, hot and arid environments, etc. which will also become factors.

Semi-Related Thoughts:
Keep in mind that the above definitions are for wilderness backpackers on multi-day to multi-month hiking trips. The types and quantities of gear and clothing need to cover far more variables for the wilderness backpacker than for a Camino hiker in terms of temperature ranges, isolation, and total self-reliance.

Five decades ago as an almost 14 year-old on my first solo, multi-day backpacking trip, the base weight while using my dad's old 1960's era Army rucksack, tipped the scales at 54 pounds/24.5 Kg. Hipbelt? What is a hipbelt? By comparison today, for that same length for a multiday backpacking trip, my base weight will be about 13 pounds. Amazingly, this is just how far the technologies in materials and manufacturing have evolved.

For a Camino, the base weight of my backpack is around 8 to 10 pounds, depending on the season. Not having to include a tent or stove or air mattress or the other pieces of gear one needs in the wilderness makes it easy for experienced backpackers to hit this weight level.

Budget considerations for those choosing to purchase new stuff:
For many, all they want is for a piece of gear or clothing to make it just as far as Santiago de Compostela. If that is the case, then long term durability to last over many years and many thousand of kilometers is not needed. Quality only needs to complete the pilgrimage and to function properly along the way. This translates into a significant savings for gear and clothing costs. Plus, it is very possible to find clothing and gear light enough that it will make you happy.

But Wait, There's More. . .

At some point in the first 24 hours of walking, no matter which Weight Definition your backpack matches, you may decide that the pack is still too heavy and start pulling out stuff and leaving it behind like some kind of Camino version of Hansel and Gretel's bread crumb trail.

It is not inevitable that frantic gear dumping will occur. All I can say is that the ratio of gear dumping is likely proportional to where your backpack resides on the Weight Definition Scale.

At the Stupid-Light level, if you run into an unexpected sub-zero ice storm on the Col de Lepoeder your worries about backpack weight no longer exist. Just sayin'.

At the other end of the spectrum with The Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index, the decision to dump stuff at the alburgue donation spot may be so bountiful that the hospitaleros decide to open a thrift shop.

"Ounces equal Pounds, and Pounds Equal Pain." Translate it into metric if you must, but it just didn't sound as kewl.
Do you know how much we missed you?
 
New Original Camino Gear Designed Especially with The Modern Peregrino In Mind!
In reality the CF can almost be walked using your definition of stupid light. There are individual days (I can think of 3) where it would be truly stupid, on the rest there are enough shops to help temporarily. For example why carry more than one set of underwear /socks when there are so many places to buy new when needed. Trousers, no need for spares, buy when necessary etc. The CF in particular is no wilderness trail with its frequent coffee stops, chinos, supermarkets, Albergues.
Very much tongue in cheek and with no intention of doing so, I reckon you could do it, on top of the clothes you're wearing, with a plastic carrier bag, one set of socks and scanties spare plus a waterproof wallet with necessary paperwork and a large bin liner adapted as a poncho. 😁😂🤣😄

If you get the correct type of cargo shorts, the ones with huge pockets, you could stuff and jam everything in, dangle any sandals from a belt loop, and go hands free :) You'd look horribly lumpy, but. . .
 
If you get the correct type of cargo shorts, the ones with huge pockets, you could stuff and jam everything in, dangle any sandals from a belt loop, and go hands free :) You'd look horribly lumpy, but. . .
Or a lumbar pack like this.

 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
Or a lumbar pack like this.


<Putting on a lumbar pack and twisting from side to side while looking in the mirror> "Hey, guys, does this make my butt look big?"

Seriously, the proper sized lumbar pack can work for a Camino. Some compromises would need to be made on some things, like sleep systems, but the proximity to civilization, bocadillos, Fanta naranja, and accomodations, makes it very doable.
 
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I enjoyed reading this humorous and informative book for inspiration. But by this standard I have yet to meet a pilgrim who is really going the "ultra-light" route.

Lighten Up! A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight Backpacking
by Don Ladigin

4DDBC863-DB40-419E-A46D-364011B0E5EB.jpeg
 
Great thread:) As an avid reader of hiking blogs - particularly PCT and Te Araroa - it is interesting to read how obsessed some hikers are in comparing their pack weight and daily km to others. Usually these people are in the super/ hyper/stupid lite group who don't seem to mind accepting/requesting a hot drink/food or even to share a tent in adverse weather all the while boasting of their minimilism and speed but don't mind bludging off others who carry more. Definitely not independent hikers in my opinion when they need to rely on the goodwill of others for their own comfort or safety.
Totally agree - take what you need but try to keep it the lightest you can for your own comfort and enjoyment.
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
Usually these people are in the super/ hyper/stupid lite group who don't seem to mind accepting/requesting a hot drink/food or even to share a tent in adverse weather all the while boasting of their minimilism and speed but don't mind bludging off others who carry more. Definitely not independent hikers in my opinion when they need to rely on the goodwill of others for their own comfort or safety.
Kind of like those who eschew technology and are walking without a phone, but need to borrow other pilgrim's phones quite often.
 
An interesting thread, although I am not attached to weight definitions. I have just purchased my first item of camino gear that I would consider to be light: a new sleeping bag from MEC which carries the name "Camino Traveller". This sleeping bag weighs 580 g. with the built in stuff sack. One side is just a polyester sheet, and the other is padded. I have slept in it, and proclaim it an adequate bed covering for albergue use, which I can make more flexible by varying my sleepwear with garments which I have with me. But lightweight is very far down on my list when it comes to my backpack, due to the state of my back and shoulders, and budget (the new sleeping bag was only $73 CAN, including tax). My own preference for controlling both weight and budget is: 1. leave behind everything I don't expect to need; for this year's camino, for example, the daypack. It only weighs 250g, but I don't need it where I go. There is no service available to carry my backpack; 2. Choose lightweight multipurpose items, merino wool clothing which will make my new sleeping bag warm enough. One long sleeved shirt, 175 g., can be layered for multiple purposes. My back and shoulders are teaching me to lighten-up, but I still have a lot to learn, and to leave behind.
 
Often the English language is more useful and accurate if adjectives and adverbs are not used.
Then it wouldn't be English would it? And this is supposed to be a forum for English speakers! Hmmmmmmmm and I'm Irish :) I detect the possibility of a another great chasm of banality opening up here! :)

Vaya con Dios

and measure your Guardian Angel's wings ?

Samarkand.
 
Join our full-service guided tour and let us convert you into a Pampered Pilgrim!
Dave, I can relate. 50 some years ago when I was a young teen I too had a 50+ lb pack on my 1st multi day backpacking trip, a 4 day hike in the Green Mountains of Vermont (and I weighed less than 100 lbs back in those days). I'm planning my first Camino for next spring and don't expect the base load to be much more than 10 lbs.
 
I, too, carried very large weights (with an external frame pack) way back in my youth. But this forum is about the Camino and its various routes not about the past and heavy-duty backpacking.
That being said, not too long ago it was said that the proper weight for the Camino was no more than 10% of your body weight. I had no idea where that 10% originated but it was a starting point.
I decided my proper light, very light, ultra-light, and comfortable weight was about 7% of my body weight.
My response to the very few times I have been asked about weight was simple:
Carry what is comfortable for you for your full journey--on the trail and wherever you stop for the evening. Comfort and absolute need are paramount not a defined weight. This was true 2 years ago and true today.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
I had no idea where that 10% originated but it was a starting point.
The 10% figure originally came from a recommendation about children's school backpacks. That being said there are people who will struggle with carrying 10% and others who can easily carry much more. It's very individual, and there are no hard and fast rules.

 
The 10% figure originally came from a recommendation about children's school backpacks. That being said there are people who will struggle with carrying 10% and others who can easily carry much more. It's very individual, and there are no hard and fast rules.

The 2018 article you refer to links to a 2015 scholarly article, which in turn cites earlier academic articles going back to the 1990s and 1980s, albeit some of these appeared to relate to methodological approaches rather than the specifics of the topic studied. The 10% rule of thumb has been around for much longer than that 2015 article. More, the article you have quoted does not recommend any limit.

That said, I was able to find a reference in another article cited to guidelines published by the then National Back Pain Association. While the source is un-cited, here is the text from the article:
Recognising that there were no maximum weight regulations relating specifically to load carriage in school students, the National Back Pain Association created some guidelines. They suggest that ideally a schoolbag should weigh no more than 10% of a student's body weight (National Back Pain Association, 1997), and this weight should be supported on both shoulders in a backpack style schoolbag.
I haven't been able to locate these guidelines, but it does support one element of this premise.

When the origin of this rule of thumb was being discussed in 2011, @methodist.pilgrim.98 (RIP) provided an extract from a 2004 CSJ guide that contained this guidance. I don't recall anyone else providing anything earlier than that at the time or since. While it might have been nice to have some source quoted by the CSJ for this, the extract doesn't do that. Perhaps not a surprize that the CSJ didn't clutter up a practical guide with the niceties of academic citations!

It might be possible to establish that the CSJ used the National Back Pain Association guidelines for schoolchildren either as the source or one of the sources for its view on this, but I don't think that is has been clearly established with the certainty being suggested.
 
Doug, you never fail to impress me with your ability to locate (sometimes obscure) references.
I wasn't aware that it was originally intended as a guide for school children's backpacks, have always related it - and the subsequent standard, light and ultralight terms that followed - to the Hiking community, of which I suppose you could say we are a sub- branch.
Personally, I love the OP @davebugg scale best:
"Some folks only use the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index as a gauge for what works."
Glad someone found and revatilised this old thread, Dave's original post above has given me a good laugh!
 
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-
Doug, you never fail to impress me with your ability to locate (sometimes obscure) references.
I wasn't aware that it was originally intended as a guide for school children's backpacks, have always related it - and the subsequent standard, light and ultralight terms that followed - to the Hiking community, of which I suppose you could say we are a sub- branch.
Personally, I love the OP @davebugg scale best:
"Some folks only use the Argggh and Ouch Scale of Pain Index as a gauge for what works."
Glad someone found and revatilised this old thread, Dave's original post above has given me a good laugh!
Peter, the statement that I unearthed about school-children's backpacks is the clearest one that I have seen, but that isn't to say that the hiking community wasn't coming to the same recommendations quite independently. There have been many good hiking guides published over the years that address this issue.

There are several other general sources where I always think there should be useful guidance, but something definitive has always eluded me and others who have been interested in this over the years.
  • The first is the military, and any work that might have been done to support the design and development of military load carrying equipment for soldiers.
  • The next is industrial material handling weight limits such as single person un-aided lifts, which seem to have settled around 23-25 kg.
  • The last one is looking at research done for different sports, particularly where competitive sports might have access to reasonable levels of research funding.
Results from all three areas are not always going to be easily transferred directly into general hiking guidance, but they are going to be much better than having nothing.
 
It's an interesting topic isn't it?
As others have said, it's somewhat of an 'individual thing' and to an extent can be determined by our ability to carry a load. I walked with a guy on my last Camino whose pack was at least twice the weight of mine, but he managed fine!

Your reference to the military made me smile @dougfitz . (22 years service)
I never recall any 'limit' being talked about.
But I think it was regularly 40-60 kgs........
(a current reference cites 63 kgs or 85% of average body weight)

I think a 'guide' of some kind is useful though for us Pilgrims.
As it assists us to know if we are doing well, or not, with our packing list.
Which of course is a highly individual thing!

I have used the 10% rule as an absolute maximum, that I try to stay below. (ex food & water)
So far I'm managing 10% (8.5kg) including food & water or 7.5% (6.4kg) ex food and water.

Every Camino I try to go lighter. But it's a trade off then with weight v comfort.
Ultralite packs are not as comfortable etc (for me at least)
And there is medical stuff like knee braces etc I'd rather not be without.
Not sure I can get any lower, though I wish I could.

@dougfitz you now have me researching hiking pack weights. I was shocked.
Much of the hikers 'advice' out there is 10-20% of bodyweight. 20% would kill me!
But I suspect this includes shelter, cooking gear, and x days of food.

I was hoping that Gear Skeptic on YouTube might have a video on the topic.
I've found his nutrition and hydration videos very good and they seem well researched.
But he doesn't talk about gear weight........yet.

Maybe someone will find a 'guide' relevant to aging Pilgrims :rolleyes:
 
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I know what total backpack weight I prefer on a Camino. It is a weight that does not detract from the enjoyment of my walk or hike, and it does not cause the backpack to draw my attention to itself while I am wearing it. I try to keep the total weight at, or below that total weight.

Great definition!
 
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
Much of the hikers 'advice' out there is 10-20% of bodyweight. 20% would kill me!
But I suspect this includes shelter, cooking gear, and x days of food.
30 + years experience says it does, however sorry I can't back that up with specific references!
And yes, at under 70 kg I did NOT enjoy carrying a 20+kg backpack which I used to carry when tent's etc weighed a heck of a lot more than they do now. And yes, I am well aware that's more than 20% - but believe me, it was simply what I needed for some of the longer backcountry hikes.
 
30 + years experience says it does, however sorry I can't back that up with specific references!
And yes, at under 70 kg I did NOT enjoy carrying a 20+kg backpack which I used to carry when tent's etc weighed a heck of a lot more than they do now. And yes, I am well aware that's more than 20% - but believe me, it was simply what I needed for some of the longer backcountry hikes.

Thank Heavens for the Camino Routes.
Hiking made easy for us old folks :rolleyes:
 
I have bought a new backpack for my Oct.-Nov. camino, an Osprey Anti-Gravity 32. It was expensive. Now that I have packed it with most of my usual gear (there is space in the top for the rest) it is hard for me to lift with one hand. But what I have noticed is that, once I have tightened the hip straps, it is fairly comfortable for me to carry. My shoulders cannot and do not carry the weight. My hips-legs do. This thread has reminded me to go through the contents of the pack and leave out whatever I reasonably can. But I shall never travel stupid-light. And I know from experience what I might need walking alone on this year's Madrid-Frances-Invierno route. I am looking forward to it.
 
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-

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