What if Orisson Refuge is full?

[Michele Jeannette Lucas]

I haven't gotten a response from my "contact us" inquiry.
I plan to try calling.
I want to stop in Orisson my first day, and I'm planning on being there either Sept 19th or 20th.

 

[MTtoCamino]

They take theIr time responding, I think I waited 7 days + if you sent them an email they simply reply with a link to PayPal for payment. The PayPal confirmation will be sent along with their info. Be prepared to translate the French response, if you don't know it.
Just start practicing patience as it will become part of the everyday experience. It is a good thing.

 

[Michele Jeannette Lucas]

thank you!! I may try to call, hoping they speak English

 

[MTtoCamino]

I

thank you!! I may try to call, hoping they speak English

Seemed 50/50 in 2014 They are a small very busy group I think they do the best they can with what they have it is no corporation. They are on a mountain at the end of the road that is only maintained until the snow sets in.

 

[whariwharangi]

What if its full? You get to sleep in the ditch.

Orisson is notably slow to respond and confirm reservations ... there is lots of whinging here on the forum about it. Apparently the owner is busier than a one-armed paper hanger. They typically will respond within a reasonable time ... say two or three weeks ... in advance. By which time your plans will have been firmed up and they can reasonably count on no changes.

 

[MTtoCamino]

What if its full? You get to sleep in the ditch.

Orisson is notably slow to respond and confirm reservations ... there is lots of whinging here on the forum about it. Apparently the owner is busier than a one-armed paper hanger. They typically will respond within a reasonable time ... say two or three weeks ... in advance. By which time your plans will have been firmed up and they can reasonably count on no changes.

DOH! A lot of truth in this, but we give them credit for making a good living on a mountain. Darn good gold mine it is. They continue to make pilgrims very happy. The beer is cold & lots of good company.

 

[Jas Asyiken]

Worst case scenario, there's this Express Burricot that you can call to pick you up wherever you end that day, take you back for the night at SJPDP then send you back to where you left off and you can continue the next day to Roncesvalles. It's very convenient but you do need to have a phone that can call from if your stop is not at specific point. Otherwise you can plan to end at Orrison arrange the pickup from there more specifically.

But nothing beats staying at Orrison for the night. It's beautiful up there at sunset but they have limited beds.

Another option is to call Orrison from SJPDP (Pilgrim office or the hotel reception can help).

End July I made no reservations but carried EB's contact with me (just in case). When I arrived at Orrison, I asked and bed was available with dinner and breakfast too.

 

[trevorcc]

They also have accommodation a K before the main house, its where I stayed in 2013 and walked to tea and on the way back a Korean gentleman broke out in an Oprea song to the moon it really set my Camino up for that trip. Don't stress just go with what the Camino gives you.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

If they are booked you can still walk up to the albergue and then walk back down, or taxi down, and spend the night in SJPP. In the morning taxi back to where you stopped the day before.

Or you can take the Valcarlos route. Or just walk all the way to Roncesvalles in the same day. Considering the very limited number of beds in Orisson, just imagine the number of people who make the crossing to Roncesvalles in a single day.

 

[Daphne McDaid]

I haven't gotten a response from my "contact us" inquiry.
I plan to try calling.
I want to stop in Orisson my first day, and I'm planning on being there either Sept 19th or 20th.

I booked with them for the 21st of Sept about 6 weeks ago through email. They took a few days to reply and sent a link to pay via paypal. Good luck to you!

 

[Scarlet Fez]

Still not confirmed my starting date and want my Camino to be very much to be going with the flow so mid late September start was hoping I won't have to be worried about that there will be no where to stay.
Still very much researching and sorting logistics out. I take it as the first day is hard for the newbie with a challenging stage 1 so that it is a sensible option to look to stay around Orisson than to try and get to Roncesvalles in one hit?
Decisions decisions already!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

There is no historical reason to start at St. Jean and exhaust yourself the first day out. Do like all the Spaniards do, and start at Roncesvalles. It's hard enough that way, without all the logistical headaches of getting to and from St. Jean.

 

[Terri B]

I contacted them online and it only took a few days to hear back from them. Hang in there!!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Question regarding "there is no historical reason to cross from SJPP, and yet Roncesvalles has historic meaning".

Did people in the good old days make their way to Roncesvalles to start their pilgrimage? Or did they just walk from home and eventually got to Roncesvalles. Of they walked from home and got to Roncesvalles, how did they get there?

I think SJPP has three things going for it, at least: you get to walk all the way across Spain, not missing a single step if walking all the way to Fisterra or Muxia, and also it has to be the most beautiful day on the Frances. Finally, it is a challenge, like the full Frances is, so might as well not start cutting corners on day one.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Question regarding "there is no historical reason to cross from SJPP, and yet Roncesvalles has historic meaning".

Did people in the good old days make their way to Roncesvalles to start their pilgrimage? Or did they just walk from home and eventually got to Roncesvalles. Of they walked from home and got to Roncesvalles, how did they get there?

I think SJPP has three things going for it, at least: you get to walk all the way across Spain, not missing a single step if walking all the way to Fisterra or Muxia, and also it has to be the most beautiful day on the Frances. Finally, it is a challenge, like the full Frances is, so might as well not start cutting corners on day one.

Good points, yet the Camino is not dictated by any human popular thought. It effects us individually & I am sure you agree whether starting in Sarria or starting from a home in Germany it will not matter to those who have the call for a pilgrimage. As we cannot determine each persons limitation or time line. All we can continue to do is point out options, yet I truly think we can never determine another's starting point.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Good points, yet the Camino is not dictated by any human popular thought. It effects us individually & I am sure you agree whether starting in Sarria or starting from a home in Germany it will not matter to those who have the call for a pilgrimage. As we cannot determine each persons limitation or time line. All we can continue to do is point out options, yet I truly think we can never determine another's starting point.

Not what my question was about, as I have very clear opinions about the Saria situation. I am interested in what makes Roncesvalles a valid historical starting point vs SJPP. Once upon a time people walke from home. Did they detour to Roncesvalles and only consider their pilgrimage as having started there? Did people from further East not walk through SJPP to get to Roncesvalles? That is what I am curious about.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Not what my question was about, as I have very clear opinions about the Saria situation. I am interested in what makes Roncesvalles a valid historical starting point vs SJPP. Once upon a time people walke from home. Did they detour to Roncesvalles and only consider their pilgrimage as having started there? Did people from further East not walk through SJPP to get to Roncesvalles? That is what I am curious about.

Yes thanks for the clarification. I will defer to the French & Spanish who read this who actively believe the Unofficial "starting point" should be SJPDP or Roncevalles, as in soccer there will always be competition. There is enough history in both places...

 

[Albertagirl]

Yes thanks for the clarification. I will defer to the French & Spanish who read this who actively believe the Unofficial "starting point" should be SJPDP or Roncevalles, as in soccer there will always be competition. There is enough history in both places...

@MTtoCamino
Gitlitz and Davidson, The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago relates some of this history in a most entertaining way and connects it to the monuments along the route. They also point out that the original route through the Pyrenees from France, from the time of the Romans and through to the 12th century, was the Somport Pass. As I am not an historian, I cannot vouch for the reliability of all their information. They also say that of the two further western routes, the route over the mountains to Roncesvalles and the route through Valcarlos, the higher route was preferred from the time of the Romans for the lesser chance of ambush and later to avoid thieving toll collectors. (Gitlitz and Davidson, 1st ed. p. 55). I think they demonstrate what you say about "enough history in both places."

 

[MTtoCamino]

@MTtoCamino
Gitlitz and Davidson, The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago relates some of this history in a most entertaining way and connects it to the monuments along the route. They also point out that the original route through the Pyrenees from France, from the time of the Romans and through to the 12th century, was the Somport Pass. As I am not an historian, I cannot vouch for the reliability of all their information. They also say that of the two further western routes, the route over the mountains to Roncesvalles and the route through Valcarlos, the higher route was preferred from the time of the Romans for the lesser chance of ambush and later to avoid thieving toll collectors. (Gitlitz and Davidson, 1st ed. p. 55). I think they demonstrate what you say about "enough history in both places."

Alberta Girl
As always you bring more interesting info to the forum. You always encourage self education.
Thank you for that
Keith

 

[SYates]

... I am interested in what makes Roncesvalles a valid historical starting point vs SJPP. Once upon a time people walke from home. Did they detour to Roncesvalles and only consider their pilgrimage as having started there? Did people from further East not walk through SJPP to get to Roncesvalles? That is what I am curious about.

The whole concept of a starting point is modern ;-) In pre-industrial times, before motorised transport existed, people would travel how they could from home to Santiago and back. Take the Camino Ingles for example. Pilgrims would board a ship from England, cross over to Spain and then walk/ride from wherever they landed to Santiago.
I know of no documented case where they journeyed from A Coruña to Roncesvalles or SJPdP and then walked to Santiago ;-)
'Starting Points' in those days where the respective house doors of each pilgrim (and they had to get back home also by similar means!) but there where meeting points on the many Caminos that cross(ed) Europe where pilgrims would meet up with others to tackle f.e. difficult mountain crossings or stretches that where known to be dangerous or simply because there was more safety in groups in those times.

Ostabat, shortly before SJPdP was such a meeting point as it was/is there where three main French routes merge. SJPdP and Roncesvalles were simply important places on this route (there were other passes over the Pyrenees that were also used in the 'old times').

Buen Camino, SY

 

[xin loi]

No reason to stop there as it is an easy walk to Roncevalles. But if you insist on not going to Roncevalles the first day , some people just camp in the shepherds shelters on the top of the hill. Don't forget horses pulled artillery up this route and if they could do it, so can you.

When we hiked the Camino in 2014, we could not believe how soon we arrived at Orrisson. It is NOT that far from SJPDP. Doing it again in two weeks.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

SJPdP and Roncesvalles were simply important places on this route (there were other passes over the Pyrenees that were also used in the 'old times').

Buen Camino, SY

Thank you SYates. I could not understand the logic of determining Roncesvalles as a more historically legitimate place to start than SJPP. It made no sense to me at all.

 

[SYates]

It depends on how we look at history and at which century. For 'modern' times SJPdP is a more historical relevant place for non-Spanish pilgrims and Roncesvalles a more historical relevant place for Spanish pilgrims. That is simply shown by the pilgrim numbers/starting points. Spanish pilgrims tend to start in Roncesvalles, other nationalities tend to start in SJPdP - average and generally speaking - exceptions confirm the rule ;-) So we are all writing pilgrims history here with our feet and in a few centuries somebody else will have a similar debate about why some starting points developed the way they did.

There are not enough numbers (at least that I know of) to make any conclusion for the time between the decline of pilgrimages (end of medieval age, roughly) and the new revival of it in the 20th century.

Also, forgot to add that to my previous post, the Camino Frances changed quite often, depending where pilgrims could find shelter and food. F.e. before Santo Domingo build the bridge and pilgrims hostel in nowadays Santo Domingo de la Calzada, fewer pilgrims passed through that part, they went a more northerly route.

Buen Camino, SY

 

[Saint Mike II]

Hola Albertagirl, I agree you do often import those little extras. Below is a couple of selected quotes from our good friend Wikipedia???

Somport or Col du Somport, known also as the Aspe Pass or Canfranc Pass, (el. 1632 m.) is a mountain pass in the central Pyrenees on the border of France and Spain. Its name is derived from the Latin Summus portus. It was one of the most popular routes for soldiers, merchants, and pilgrims to the tomb of St. James following the route from Arles to cross the Pyrenees. They travelled from Oloron-Sainte-Marie, Pyrénées-Atlantiques, France, via Somport to Aragon, Spain. ...
Pilgrimage history
This was arguably the most popular Pyrenaic pass for pilgrims on the Way of St. James until the pacification of Navarran and Basque bandits in the 12th century made the relatively easier Roncesvalles road safer for pilgrims. There is little of interest at the pass, except for the modern Ermita del Pilar (1992) and of course the natural beauty of the mountains. From this point to Santiago de Compostela it is approximately 840 km.

It might actually be worth allowing some extra time next Spring to investigate the Somport, but of course if its a big winter the extra 100 metres over and above the trail from St Jean to Roncesvalles might still be snowed in. Cheers for now

 

[Albertagirl]

Hola Albertagirl, I agree you do often import those little extras. Below is a couple of selected quotes from our good friend Wikipedia???

Somport or Col du Somport, known also as the Aspe Pass or Canfranc Pass, (el. 1632 m.) is a mountain pass in the central Pyrenees on the border of France and Spain. Its name is derived from the Latin Summus portus. It was one of the most popular routes for soldiers, merchants, and pilgrims to the tomb of St. James following the route from Arles to cross the Pyrenees. They travelled from Oloron-Sainte-Marie, Pyrénées-Atlantiques, France, via Somport to Aragon, Spain. ...
Pilgrimage history
This was arguably the most popular Pyrenaic pass for pilgrims on the Way of St. James until the pacification of Navarran and Basque bandits in the 12th century made the relatively easier Roncesvalles road safer for pilgrims. There is little of interest at the pass, except for the modern Ermita del Pilar (1992) and of course the natural beauty of the mountains. From this point to Santiago de Compostela it is approximately 840 km.

It might actually be worth allowing some extra time next Spring to investigate the Somport, but of course if its a big winter the extra 100 metres over and above the trail from St Jean to Roncesvalles might still be snowed in. Cheers for now

@Saint Mike II
I am walking the Somport Pass route, starting in Oloron Ste Marie in mid September, so I am reading the relevant section in The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago as part of my preparation. I am wondering if whoever wrote the Wikipedia entry used Gitlitz and Davidson as a source, as the wording is very similar.

 

[SYates]

Somport and Santa Cristina are a good example how pilgrimage routes changed over the years in popularity. Whilst Roncesvalles survived, from Santa Cristina only ruins remain. The Codex Calixtinus describes it as one of the three greatest pilgrims hostels on earth, the other two being those of Jerusalem and the Grand Saint Bernard pass, but he doesn't count Roncesvalles into his 'best three list'.

Back to SJPdP and Roncesvalles (please tell me, if I bore you all to death with my history ramblings!)
Their respective founding history is also slightly different. Roncesvalles was first and foremost founded as a pilgrims hostel whilst SJPdP was mainly founded as a fortified border town (even when the border changed over the centuries).

Buen Camino, SY

 

[mspath]

...



Back to SJPdP and Roncesvalles (please tell me, if I bore you all to death with my history ramblings!)
Their respective founding history is also slightly different. Roncesvalles was first and foremost founded as a pilgrims hostel whilst SJPdP was mainly founded as a fortified border town (even when the border changed over the centuries).

Buen Camino, SY

For a brief history in French of SJPdP see this web from the town hall. At first the town was part of the holdings of the Court of Navarre and only became French in the mid 16th century.

http://www.st-jean-pied-de-port.fr/decouvrir/histoire-et-patrimoine/grandes-epoques/

 

[Felipe]

It is not a "statistical proof", but when I walked with many French Pilgrims coming from Oloron and arrived at SJPP, none of them intended to walk to Roncesvalles. For most, Saint Jean was the end (and there were some emotional moments when we walked together the last stretch from Saint Jean le Vieux); a few planned to do the French GR 1o towards Hendaye. You can think that for them it was just a "randonnée", a trek, and so Compostela was not relevant; but I saw many of them regularly praying in the churches along the Camino, and attending Mass at Notre Dame, in SJPP, was an important, not to miss event.
I suppose the reasons are the same of the Spaniards that prefer to start at Roncesvalles, but I am not sure. Maybe the border is still a kind of border, even if it is more "virtual" than real.

 

[Saint Mike II]

Dear SY - you are NEVER boring. The middle-ages history of the various Camino routes are always interesting.
Albertagirl - from what I read (further on and on another link) the Sumport Pass will lead to Puente La Reina, but Brierley does not appear to give it a mention. If you are walking in September then all the snow should have gone, but the Pyrenees should always be respected. A North Atlantic Gale/Storm can bring snow/rain/high winds. Buen Camino.

PS1: You know the more I think about it the more I want to walk this route - some maybe that will be 2018.
PS2 - MS- more great information on St Jean - more reason to stay a day or two before heading up the hill.Cheers

 

[GlenysP]

In summer of 2015 I emailed about 4 times in 5 weeks, then I rang them directly and spoke in Spanish but was told to email as they were busy at that time; I emailed again, and a week later in desperation (because I knew I couldn't walk to Roncesvalles, as I'd already walked 2011) I rang the Pilgrim's Office who offered to ring them for me. Then I received an email asking to PayPal the attached invoice, but no invoice details, so I had to email twice more for that invoice. The whole process took 9 weeks. But I've stayed there twice now and highly recommend it. Buen Camino.

 

[Jane Silverman]

They also have accommodation a K before the main house, its where I stayed in 2013 and walked to tea and on the way back a Korean gentleman broke out in an Oprea song to the moon it really set my Camino up for that trip. Don't stress just go with what the Camino gives you.

 

[Jane Silverman]

I stayed there too. Delightful. Up to the big one for dinner, then back for a great sleep with fewer companions.

 

[Louise2016]

We had trouble getting a confirmation too until just before we left, to stay at Orrison. It was worth it though. A great place and a nice beginning to our trip. But very close to the Pilgrim office in SJDP is the office for Express Bou... the company that provides transportation. If you get to SJDP without your confirmation from Orrison, I would stop at their office and let them know you are hiking to Orrison without a reservation and they can help you with transportation back if you want to hike to Orrison, come back to sleep at SJDP, then be taken back to Orrison the next day to hike to Roncessvalle. That was our backup plan if we didn't hear from Orrison before we left.

 

[Myr]

Orisson was full when we went also, so we stayed at Kayola and then had dinner and breakfast at Orisson. Kayola is very rustic ... but we appreciated it very much.

 

[Thornley]

I haven't gotten a response from my "contact us" inquiry.
I plan to try calling.
I want to stop in Orisson my first day, and I'm planning on being there either Sept 19th or 20th.

If its full and you are nervous about the 30km [ and it is when adding incline to distance] to Rons. then walk to Orisson and get a taxi back to StJPP and have a good nights rest.
Next day return by taxi to Orisson and continue.
Its a well worn path , we believe harder parts come later.
or
Send bags ahead and do it in one go
or
Go via Valcarlos and stay a night in this beautiful village , in a very , very good CR

 

[Marc Hamel]

I must have been born under lucky stars! I emailed Orisson and received a reply and reservation confirmation three days later. I had heard so many complaints about how long it took to hear back, but I have to say Jean-Jacques was prompt and courteous. I will be staying there the night of September 5 and look forward to seeing any of you who will be there that night.

 

[MTtoCamino]

I must have been born under lucky stars! I emailed Orisson and received a reply and reservation confirmation three days later. I had heard so many complaints about how long it took to hear back, but I have to say Jean-Jacques was prompt and courteous. I will be staying there the night of September 5 and look forward to seeing any of you who will be there that night.

Reminds me of ice fishing one must hold their jaw slightly off center & the fish begin to bite...

 

[GlenysP]

I must have been born under lucky stars! I emailed Orisson and received a reply and reservation confirmation three days later. I had heard so many complaints about how long it took to hear back, but I have to say Jean-Jacques was prompt and courteous. I will be staying there the night of September 5 and look forward to seeing any of you who will be there that night.

Buen Camino. I stayed there 5th September last year.

 

[bunnymac]

You can call them as they speak English. When you witness the amount of work they do in 24 hours you will understand the slow response )

thank you!! I may try to call, hoping they speak English

 

[Felipe]

You can call them as they speak English. When you witness the amount of work they do in 24 hours you will understand the slow response )

Good luck with this. I tried it, and left a message. They never called back. I understand that they could be very busy, but then, why they do put a phone number in their webpage?

 

[Rebekah Scott]

This is your first taste of the Different World that is Iberia. The customer is not always right, the customer often is an inconvenience, and the business is there to support the owner, not the other way around. Not every business operates like this, but a huge percentage of them do. There's nothing to do about it but suck it up and hope for some divine providence.
Which usually arrives when you least expect it.

 

[scott almburg]

I made the hike from SJPP to Roncenvalles with a stop at Orrison the first week of June 2015. Had made the reservation at Orrison about 4 weeks previous. Weather was clear, sunny and hot. Miscalculated, and pack was 25 pounds. Took me (62 years old ) a slow 6 hours to get to Orrison. After a bottle of red wine, and the evening meal
( which is not to be missed ), I felt rejuvenated You will acquire 50 new friends and hiking companions at Orrison. Be prepared to stand up at dinner and introduce yourself to the crowd. "Bonsoir mes amis, je m'appelle Scott. Je suis American. Je vais a Stantiago très lentement" Sent the pack ahead to Roncenvalles, which made the 2nd day walk much much easier. A very steep rocky downhill through the forest from the summit.