What if visa rules change in mid-Camino?

[wayfaring stranger]

Good day to you all:

I would like to ask you for some advice re possible changes in EU visa regulations.

As you know, the EU is currently thinking about requiring visas for US citizens to enter Europe.
What do you think might happen in the following scenario?

Let's say you enter to Spain under the current 90 days/ no visa dispensation and start walking the Camino.
And then, while you are out there, new rules come into effect, and Americans must then have visas. What do you think might happen to US citizens who are already walking when the new laws come into effect...?

Many thanks for your input......
all the best
WS

 

[dougfitz]

Without knowing what implementation arrangements might be contemplated, anything one might suggest is mere speculation. However, I would expect that every US citizen without a valid visa would be required to leave immediately. Mind you, when you think about it, that is what is required now. Given that you are, in effect, given a visa on arrival that is valid for staying up to 90 days in 180, perhaps you will be allowed to stay until that visa expires.

 

[Aurigny]

It's theoretically possible, but about as probable as the outbreak of World War Three. For a number of reasons:-

1. The EU has no such intentions. The European Parliament, a somewhat misnamed body that in fact has no legislative powers, recently passed a blowing-off-steam non-binding resolution to that effect. In the same way, the U.S. House of Representatives not too long ago passed a non-binding resolution "recognising the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith." The one has precisely the same significance, and legal effect, as the other.

2. The abolition of visa-free travel in either direction would not merely impede tourism, but be an immense burden to U.S. and European business alike. Nobody in government on either side of the Atlantic is eager to shoot him- or herself in the foot in this manner. It would, in effect, be an open declaration of an international trade war between the world's leading economies. This doesn't, and can't, happen overnight simply because someone got a rush of blood to the head.

3. The abrupt withdrawal of previously-granted authorisations would be impossible to police. At any given time, at least a couple of million U.S. passport holders are in Europe, and vice versa. The airlift capacity does not exist to repatriate them all at short notice, and law enforcement would not be equal to the task of verifying the whereabouts of such people, even if police forces were to abandon every other task to concentrate on this one.

This is the ultimate silly-season story. Interesting to speculate about, perhaps, in the same way as wondering what we would all do in the case of a zombie apocalypse, but no more likely to materialise in reality.

 

[Kathar1na]

As you know, the EU is currently thinking about requiring visas for US citizens to enter Europe.
What do you think might happen in the following scenario

This scenario will not happen, for a number of reasons too long to enumerate. @Aurigny's post is spot on although it probably crosses already the dreaded "no politics" forum rule. But frankly, dear moderators, how else can one explain the actual situation? It must be necessary to describe legal/political realities - which is not the same as expressing and discussing political opinions.

@wayfaring stranger, your assumption is already wrong: "the EU" is not thinking about requiring visas for US citizens. The EU consists of three branches (Council, Commission, Parliament), all of them have legislative powers (it's complicated) but there is no single person who can give executive orders that are implemented the next day. As far as visa legislation goes, nothing absolutely nothing can happen without the overall agreement (it's complicated) of the Council of the EU, and that means the national governments of the 28 EU countries!!! All this takes time, usually more than a month or even 90 days . Relax and enjoy your trip.

 

[Mark Lee]

Wow....that would be a frightening what if scenario. The perfect storm so to speak, of a peregrino nightmare.
I think there's a very good chance if that happened one would find themselves arrested and sentenced to hard labor in a gulag type prison.

 

[Aurigny]

...in a gulag type prison.

For which ordeal, staying at one or two particular albergues—which I will forbear to name—will have adequately prepared us.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Let's say you enter to Spain under the current 90 days/ no visa dispensation and start walking the Camino.
And then, while you are out there, new rules come into effect, and Americans must then have visas.

1. That is not likely to happen without lots of notice.
2. If it does happen you contact the American embassy or consulates.
3. Or you travel to Denmark or Poland which have separate visa treaties with the US and again contact US embassy or consulates.
4. Beyond that I see even more horrible stuff happening, even worse than what @Mark Lee imagines.

 

[cher99840]

Here we go again

 

[Aurigny]

Indeed. While we commenters are indulging ourselves in all this silliness, though, I should say to the OP that his or her question is a perfectly reasonable one to ask. Those of us who are Europeans will be aware that this is a non-story; others, simply going by the media reports, have every justification for feeling concerned about it.

The bottom line, OP: as others have said, enjoy your pilgrimage and don't give this a second thought.

 

[t2andreo]

Short answer:...well it started out that way...

1. NOTHING is going to change anytime soon.

2. In the extremely unlikely event the rules changed AFTER you were legally admitted at any EU passport control under the old (current) system, (e.g. you are in mid-Camino) you would definitely be "grandfathered" for the remainder of that particular, up to 90 calendar day, visit.

3. No adverse affects would accrue as long as you could prove, via stamp in passport, that you arrived under the old scheme and got caught in the changeover. It would simply be unreasonable and impractical to do otherwise.

FYI, my careful reading of ALL the relevant press reports, as well as material put out directly by the EU minions in Brussels indicates that even were such a draconian change to be initiated, the process would take about TWO YEARS to implement. Affected persons would have ample warning and lead time to apply for regular visitor visas.

But, also consider that the mere suggestion of this daunting a volume of old-school visa applications is enough to collapse the EU tourism economy almost completely. This is why I believe that, in the long run, noting will change.

There is simply too much money at stake. Some of these nations derive a huge and not-insignificant portion of their Gross National Product from tourism annually.
With the political situation in Europe being as sketchy as it is at present, I sincerely believe that the present statements are little more than bluster and posturing by EU MEPs. These efforts at brinksmanship generally fizzle and just go away.

However, and if I am wrong (I am occasionally you know) you will have plenty of advance notice to prepare. Worry not, let Santiago sort it all for you...

I hope this helps.

 

[naplesdon]

Wow....that would be a frightening what if scenario. The perfect storm so to speak, of a peregrino nightmare.
I think there's a very good chance if that happened one would find themselves arrested and sentenced to hard labor in a gulag type prison.

Mark you are ready for a career in generating Fake New.
Meanwhile we were stopped by the Guardia Civil on the Camino near San Nicolas for walking dogs without leashes yesterday.

 

[t2andreo]

How many tickets? One, or like five or six for the entire menagerie?

Was Paddy with you? If so, I sense an indignant column to be forthcoming...

Oh, to have been a fly on the proverbial wall...

I pity the GC...

 

[Deleted member 43780]

Wow....that would be a frightening what if scenario. The perfect storm so to speak, of a peregrino nightmare.
I think there's a very good chance if that happened one would find themselves arrested and sentenced to hard labor in a gulag type prison.

Gulags for Peregrinos? Yes!
Outside of Seville they are now building a huge Peregrino gulag . Will be able to hold 1 million of them. No blankets will be given out. Bring your own sleeping bag. The Plata will be very busy as we all walk to Seville.

You will need to show two stamps per day on your walk to Seville!

 

[Kathar1na]

Outside of Seville they are now building a huge Peregrino gulag.

Now, now, don't frighten people! According to something I think I have read somewhere and choose to believe, you will either have to pay a 480 EUR visa fee in 5 EUR notes at the nearest police station - pay attention, it may mean that you have to walk back to a previous village or town - or, failing to do so, your Hoka One shoes, Osprey backpack and REI functional clothes will be confiscated until your departure from Santiago and you will be given a hair shirt/cilice and a small leather satchel instead (you can chose between Vuitton, Gucci and Mandarina Duck models).

These measures will be a boost for the European textile and leather bags industry and will offset the loss following the expected fall of the numbers of foreign visitors.

 

[StepheninDC]

Indeed. While we commenters are indulging ourselves in all this silliness, though, I should say to the OP that his or her question is a perfectly reasonable one to ask. Those of us who are Europeans will be aware that this is a non-story; others, simply going by the media reports, have every justification for feeling concerned about it.

The bottom line, OP: as others have said, enjoy your pilgrimage and don't give this a second thought.

I'm glad to read this, especially the first paragraph. This isn't idle speculation, and those of us who've purchased non-refundable plane/bus/rail tickets and booked accommodation are, I think, justified in being a bit nervous. The following is not a political opinion, please note. While different in many ways, the sight of Hungary putting up razor wire last year to prevent refugees from the Middle East from entering (on their way, most likely, to Germany) or the sight of visitors from 7 countries located in the Middle East being detained recently at Kennedy Airport in New York City DOES give cause for concern. I'm not taking sides, I'm only stating a reality that some of us are feeling a bit uneasy. You can say "there's nothing to worry about," and as an American Europhile who pays close attention to European politics, I understand the difference between the European Parliament and the European Commission. But I didn't think I'd see the day people from Yemen or Iraq who are American legal residents would be prevented from entering the USA, either. That's why I'm being just a bit cautious. I've only needed a visa to enter Europe once, in 1985 when I had to get one to visit France because of another diplomatic tiff going on between France and the United States.

 

[Mark Lee]

All joking aside, as I stated in the other threads on this matter, nothing is concrete. Nothing is law. Any discussion or concern over it is unnecessary. If it were to actually occur it would be a lengthy process, no doubt and well covered in the media and there would be notices to Americans traveling abroad to those countries.
Why even think about it, let alone allow worrying about it mar enjoyment of walking the Camino?
much ado about nothing.....
ultreia

 

[naplesdon]

Please, please stop this insanity that has crept into our universal consciousness. Until Lindbergh becomes president we have nothing to fear.

 

[naplesdon]

How many tickets? One, or like five or six for the entire menagerie?

Was Paddy with you? If so, I sense an indignant column to be forthcoming...

Oh, to have been a fly on the proverbial wall...

I pity the GC...

Many thanks to God, Jesus and St. James I was not alone. I would never have been able to understand what these gun toting guys were asking or why. Today we stayed off the Camino and did our walk in the local fields
So far the results have been NADA, they were supposed to be here yesterday to levy a fine, but something more important and 4 dogs off their leashes came up. So far today they haven't called to arrange a meeting and it's getting on to 16:30.

 

[peregrina2000]

Let's close this thread, having given the OP the assurance that she need not worry. It also bears remembering that new visa requirements have been introduced at many different times by many different countries, and I have never heard of people who were in that now more restrictive country getting into trouble. So this "what if" should not be a source of worry.