What REALLY happens when we step away and have time to think!

[David]

When we step out on Camino, on pilgrimage, if we switch everything electronic off we separate ourselves from that other busy world, start to relax and finally have time to think, perhaps for the first time in years - to allow our minds to address ourselves ... but this is what really happens!
don't you think?? (it is an integral process of us becoming better humans - and the Camino helps us with that).






xxxx

 

[Rick M]

When we step out on Camino, on pilgrimage, if we switch everything electronic off we separate ourselves from that other busy world, start to relax and finally have time to think, perhaps for the first time in years - to allow our minds to address ourselves ... but this is what really happens!
don't you think?? (it is an integral process of us becoming better humans - and the Camino helps us with that).

xxxx

I bet that for many, its not the first time in years, its the first time EVER they have had an opportunity to reflect. Particularly for women, I think it may be the first time ever they have been without the responsibility of caring for kids/family and truly been on their own. Others can't disconnect from their jobs easily either. I agree with you about the cell phone with its instagram/text/facebook/blog/whatever, as being an impediment to achieving those moments of clarity that can happen on Camino. That powerful communications device that keeps you connected with your world becomes an electronic anchor, preventing you from detaching from the day to day and the mundane. Its also a powerful distraction, allowing endless ways to avoid the topic at hand - The reason you're on the Camino! If pilgrims can't leave it at home, and I don't recommend that they do, then as you say, TURN IT OFF most of the time. Give the magic a chance to happen.

 

[LdnWalker]

I noticed on the Frances last year a marked change in how much people were using their phones, even compared to four years earlier. Lots more wifi and phone calls home. While some people might need to keep in close contact with home, lots of people just seemed to be unable to let go a little and not be in constant contact via social media or phone.

 

[FLEUR]

I noticed on the Frances last year a marked change in how much people were using their phones, even compared to four years earlier. Lots more wifi and phone calls home. While some people might need to keep in close contact with home, lots of people just seemed to be unable to let go a little and not be in constant contact via social media or phone.

Absolutely. Starting in 2012 and finishing in 2016 we noticed a huge difference.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

2001, no mobile phones, no ipods and people chatted as they queued up in smoke filled cybercafes to send emails.
Jesus Jato was the only person who transported rucksacks, taxi-grinos were few and far between (except for the injured).

Oh I miss the old days

 

[Coleen Clark]

I found myself, and I didn't even know I was lost.
I mean, I'm kinda big to misplace. Still, with all the responsibilities and noise and binge watching Deadwood, Downton Abbey and Game of Thrones I had no brain cells left for self-actualization, reflection, and general psychic upkeep.
I found walking cleaned the mind, flushed the excess goop and I was ready to see who I really was.
Sounds like a job Mr. Plumber would do, but when I looked at me the good outweighed the bad.
Sure, I had to accept some not so nice things about me (not sharing...wouldn't want to give young people night terrors), but all in all I'd be friends with me if I met me at an Albergue. I'd even buy me café con leche.
Because that's the kind of me I am.

 

[Shakespearshakes]

Eloquent reply Coleen. Accepting oneself, (warts and all) Is the starting point for understanding others. I think I like the kind of me that you are.

 

[LdnWalker]

As much as I love the camaraderie of the Frances (and I do) I found walking the Ingles such a calming, peaceful week. There were far fewer people and I really walked on my own a lot. It was a totally different experience and I really appreciated walking a quieter path by myself.

 

[Annie Little]

As much as I love the camaraderie of the Frances (and I do) I found walking the Ingles such a calming, peaceful week. There were far fewer people and I really walked on my own a lot. It was a totally different experience and I really appreciated walking a quieter path by myself.

Yes ... I have not done ingles .... but know what you mean ...... I hooked up with others for security BUT wished times I had not ....... I prefer for the most part to be on my own .... others talked about problems at home / wanted to chatter while walking through beautiful surroundings and mystical foggy morns/ wanted to make comments about others / talk about what happened what happened in the office ont the other side of the world !

I just want simplicity , calm, quiet , a bit of company now and then ..... if not for safety reasons I would walk totally alone as a choice all the time ....

Ultreia

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Amen to that! It's why the trail is so LONG... you can face down the past and finally forgive yourself. And if your journey is a long one, you can start your re-invention, too.

 

[simeon]

it's curious , I find that even walking and whilst not actively thinking or reflecting results in changes in life. The answers seemed to just appear!! Not sure if this was just my experience or that of others as well....

 

[Annie Little]

it's curious , I find that even walking and whilst not actively thinking or reflecting results in changes in life. The answers seemed to just appear!! Not sure if this was just my experience or that of others as well....

Oh yeahhhh! ....... the answers to everything are there sitting within .... I only realised once I got home what was lying within me and my journey...

I found it tedious when people constantly asked others : why are you on Camino ? ..... I didn't need to decide the WHY ...... I knew the WHY would find ME ...... I also didn't need to "explain" the Why to others ....

 

[mspath]

Solvitur Ambulando might be our walking motto! Read why and how all is or may be solved by walking here.

 

[nycwalking]

2001, no mobile phones, no ipods and people chatted as they queued up in smoke filled cybercafes to send emails.
Jesus Jato was the only person who transported rucksacks, taxi-grinos were few and far between (except for the injured).

Oh I miss the old days

My first camino was 2001, no reservations, wi-fi cafes few and far between, and only an ever so slight bed race. I did not "phone home" every second. February-March 2014, I had to stop myself from phoning home every second.

 

[Katie Brown]

I think my mother might just kill me if I turn my phone off completely during my next Camino, lol.
Though I wish I could just turn it all off. Be 100%, completely immersed in every aspect of the way.

 

[LdnWalker]

Yes ... I have not done ingles .... but know what you mean ...... I hooked up with others for security BUT wished times I had not ....... I prefer for the most part to be on my own .... others talked about problems at home / wanted to chatter while walking through beautiful surroundings and mystical foggy morns/ wanted to make comments about others / talk about what happened what happened in the office ont the other side of the world !

I just want simplicity , calm, quiet , a bit of company now and then ..... if not for safety reasons I would walk totally alone as a choice all the time ....

Ultreia

The first time I walked I walked with a friend. It turned out to be a fantastic experience and it's great that camino is one of our shared experiences. Apart from the serendipitous discovery that we walk at about the same pace, I think what really helped is that we were quite content to wander along in silence for long periods contemplating our own business.

 

[David]

I think my mother might just kill me if I turn my phone off completely during my next Camino, lol.
Though I wish I could just turn it all off. Be 100%, completely immersed in every aspect of the way.

Katie - what you can do is to ask family and friends not to phone or text except in an emergency, and then keep your phone switched off and switch it on once a day in the evening for a minute to see if any messages have come in, then switch it off again. All 'normal' texts received you can swipe away and answer when you get home - you don't have to answer!!!
You can tell mother that you will send an "I'm ok" text every few days so not to worry if she doesn't hear from you.
If your mother and you use the same platform you can set up 'find my phone' on her phone and she can see where you are.

Ahhh ... the silence ... another plus is that your battery won't run down!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I think my mother might just kill me if I turn my phone off completely during my next Camino, lol.
Though I wish I could just turn it all off. Be 100%, completely immersed in every aspect of the way.

Katie,
Look back at your country's history. when the first Europeans settled in Canada it would take weeks perhaps months for letters to travel back and forth. It wasn't until about 60 years ago that telephone calls could be made through the transatlantic cable.
Just because you CAN be in touch 24/7 doesn't mean you HAVE to. Why not fix a time of day with your mother when you can be contacted? Mind you, you'll have to be there on the dot else she'll have Sergeant Renfrew and Cuddles on the first plane over (When he regains consciousness that is)

 

[simeon]

these two pictures of st Peter's square tell the story of the last few years

 

[NualaOC]

Thanks David - another interesting and thought-provoking thread.

Apologies if this link has been shared before - I saw it this morning for the first time (thanks to the CSJ newsletter). It made me think about my use of technology on the Camino, and in my everyday life.

 

[BillyJane70]

Not quite sure if Katie was actually looking for advice...Her and her mum will sort it out, no doubt.
Some of us need that sense of security to make it though this journey. I reckon if you gave pilgrims of the past the option of carrying a little box that allowed them to create memories of their journey, played their favourite Gregorian chants on demand, phone a friend, or to book refuge ahead of their arrival, that they may just have said
" yes please!" Past, present or future pilgrims, it is often the ability to share what we are going through with those we love that enable us to endure to the bittersweet end. Whether they are in our lounge room, or 24 hours away.

 

[David]

Billy - I am one of those pilgrims of the past (2005) and I say No Thanks!

 

[David]

I only posted what I thought was a funny but observant cartoon, wasn't meant to be too serious, but, following the later posts -
What people do when they go on Camino is really down to them but if one is on pilgrimage, a religious or deeply spiritual pilgrimage, well, there are methods of reaching and connecting with the true inner that are thousands of years old - all religions have them - and they all include, as a priority, cutting oneself off from the world.

The Camino as pilgrimage is a long process, weeks and weeks, and different challenges and aspects of ones selves are revealed as one progresses along the route - the problem, and it is a problem, in this modern consumer fetishist society is that people want immediate gratification, they 'want it now', and this has led to a belief that perhaps 5 minutes meditating before breakfast on Camino, or taking a photograph of a church, somehow has the same effect as actually walking to Santiago without electronics and distractions - it doesn't and it isn't.

The inner experience cannot be bought, it is not something that one can take off a shelf in a supermarket and own, or possess. It is utterly impossible to go through the whole mental and physical process of pilgrimage whilst connected to the outside world electronically, or having headphones on and listening to music, or reading crime thrillers, or any other distraction. The pilgrims you meet are not distractions, they are 'given' to you as part of your pilgrimage. This isn't a personal opinion, this is how it is, simply how it is, how it has always been, how it will always be.

Consider - on social networks you would have seen photos put up of people's meals? When they were on a date, or a family gathering? and they say what a great experience they are having? Well, they are not, because they have removed themselves from the genuine experience to play with their phone - they are no longer there .. and also selfishly unconcerned how their action is affecting the person/s they are with.

That no man can have two masters is a deep truth - and therefore one cannot be on pilgrimage and also be in the world at home - one has to choose, it is one or the other.
It doesn't matter to me ... people go out on Camino, and everyone is affected by the experience in some way or another, but if one wants pilgrimage then one has to let that other world go until one steps back into it.

A friend of mine has just returned from Denmark where he went on a meditation residency for a few days. Very expensive and he has come back completely unchanged, unaltered, except for having a smaller bank balance. When I mention to him that he went on a themed package holiday he gets very angry - I tell him he should go meditate on that anger and where it comes from.
He didn't have to spend money to go to a Danish 'spiritual' mansion, he could have just sat in his garden under a tree. My point being that you cannot buy the experience - the clue is in the word - you have to experience it .. and when/if you get bored, as long as you don't distract yourself as you have spent your life doing at home you will eventually have to face yourself - and that is when it really starts

So - to me electronics on Camino are fine (just please don't do it near me) - but if on serious pilgrimage they are not. I mean .. why do you think they take all that stuff off you if you go to a religious retreat??

Buen Camino All

 

[pensioner45]

I think my mother might just kill me if I turn my phone off completely during my next Camino, lol.
Though I wish I could just turn it all off. Be 100%, completely immersed in every aspect of the way.

I heard a story about an Irishman who emigrated over 30 years ago to America. His mother asked him to keep in touch. International phone calls were very expensive but every Sunday morning she would receive a phone call from the local operator asking if she would accept a reverse charge call from the USA. She always replied "No" but was happy to know her son was well!

 

[nycwalking]

I found myself, and I didn't even know I was lost.
I mean, I'm kinda big to misplace. Still, with all the responsibilities and noise and binge watching Deadwood, Downton Abbey and Game of Thrones I had no brain cells left for self-actualization, reflection, and general psychic upkeep.
I found walking cleaned the mind, flushed the excess goop and I was ready to see who I really was.
Sounds like a job Mr. Plumber would do, but when I looked at me the good outweighed the bad.
Sure, I had to accept some not so nice things about me (not sharing...wouldn't want to give young people night terrors), but all in all I'd be friends with me if I met me at an Albergue. I'd even buy me café con leche.
Because that's the kind of me I am.

Coleen,
We are watching same episodes from same TV shoes especially: Family Ties.
Buen camino when again time permits.

 

[wcsjms]

When we step out on Camino, on pilgrimage, if we switch everything electronic off we separate ourselves from that other busy world, start to relax and finally have time to think, perhaps for the first time in years - to allow our minds to address ourselves ... but this is what really happens!
don't you think?? (it is an integral process of us becoming better humans - and the Camino helps us with that).




View attachment 33616

xxxx

We trekked the Frances last fall (2016) with no electronic communication devices at all, only a watch and a GoPro camera, by doing so it allows one to communicate with others and tends to get their face out of their cell phone or iPad/Kindle. Along the Way, we constantly saw people with their eyes glued to their phones and thumbs moving at light speed to text, it's a small wonder they did not trip and fall. They think they are living...they are not. They miss out on the connection of verbalizing thoughts to one another such as hearing a voice in a phone call or face to face. I feel fortunate that I grew up in a time when none of this "connectivity" was around and we had to talk to one another or physically write a letter. It made life more personal. Why I marvel at the creativity and inventiveness of these devices I think it can be a two edged sword. In one instance it can provide instant communication that render assistance in an emergency situation, it can provide contact with friends and family that are far away, it can foster an overthrow of a malicious government, but it can also lead to disconnect between people when you are no longer having a face to face conversation but instead a series of tweets, I think it also gives rise to armchair bullies who hide behind these devices. All in all, I live in both worlds but along the Camino, I chose to shed the electronics and have new lifetime friends because of it from all over the world and yes we do send emails and texts to one another ....lol. Bottom line...to each his own

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I heard a story about an Irishman who emigrated over 30 years ago to America. His mother asked him to keep in touch. International phone calls were very expensive but every Sunday morning she would receive a phone call from the local operator asking if she would accept a reverse charge call from the USA. She always replied "No" but was happy to know her son was well!

My first grade teacher was from Egypt and did just that with her mom who stayed back home.

 

[Rick M]

Mind you, you'll have to be there on the dot else she'll have Sergeant Renfrew and Cuddles on the first plane over (When he regains consciousness that is)

I wonder if she is old enough to recognize this one. I sure am! Too funny........

 

[David]

There was mention above how a smart phone can be used to book a refugio and keep in touch with friends and relatives back home, as if these were good things - and this is exactly my point - if one is on pilgrimage, how wonderful to not know where one will stop .. to be walking along not even knowing if there will be room at the inn - how marvellous to be that in the real world, as it manifests - so what if it is full? so what if one sleeps on a church porch or walks on to another town? Who knows what may manifest if one is living moment to moment - and the keeping in touch? As for talking to people at home when one is 'enduring' - well, that is an instant method of ending the experience we are going through - we are no longer there actually experiencing something difficult - a process that will take us somewhere brand new in our lives - but have copped out and gone home, in the realest sense left the Camino and gone home.

Sure, take a phone, for emergencies - but keep it switched off!!

I am not alone in this you know - a video for you ...

I am so like the girl in it - I may be an old bloke with a head like a coconut but I am her character, it is how I also see and experience this 'connected' modern world.

 

[Icacos]

BTW, David, in case you don't know (and I apologise if you do) ignoring one's companion(s) in favour of paying attention to one's phone, is called 'phubbing.' It's seen everywhere. Very sad.

 

[David]

Phubbing? Coo - I didn't know that!! Thanks!!

 

[wcsjms]

There was mention above how a smart phone can be used to book a refugio and keep in touch with friends and relatives back home, as if these were good things - and this is exactly my point - if one is on pilgrimage, how wonderful to not know where one will stop .. to be walking along not even knowing if there will be room at the inn - how marvellous to be that in the real world, as it manifests - so what if it is full? so what if one sleeps on a church porch or walks on to another town? Who knows what may manifest if one is living moment to moment - and the keeping in touch? As for talking to people at home when one is 'enduring' - well, that is an instant method of ending the experience we are going through - we are no longer there actually experiencing something difficult - a process that will take us somewhere brand new in our lives - but have copped out and gone home, in the realest sense left the Camino and gone home.

Sure, take a phone, for emergencies - but keep it switched off!!

I am not alone in this you know - a video for you ...

I am so like the girl in it - I may be an old bloke with a head like a coconut but I am her character, it is how I also see and experience this 'connected' modern world.

David, I think many would think us dinosaurs in this time and age albeit we are capable of using all of the devices out there. I think we are more renaissance men and men of the ages, trying revive a sense of community. I daresay there are equally as many women who think like we think along with many younger people. It is just that some have succumbed to a false reality where many times the communication is done in obscurity. I owe this to clever and tenacious marketing. As I tell my own kids and their kids ... why do you want to keep making some rich guys richer when you are not. Cell phones, tablets, pads, etc ... all equal $$$$. They, commercial advertisers, have made it a point to separate people from their sense of community and replace it with a pseudo one which enriches them and their employers and it has invaded all "walks" of life ...no pun intended. *sigh* we are but small voices crying out in the wilderness , hey ... look at me and talk to me. ;-) Not to mention ... A Camino Race this year.... really?

 

[MikeJS]

Don't see the problem. The smart phone is just another tool. You choose to use it or not. I have been in the Camino Sureste for two weeks and except for one evening when the Sureste and Levante joined I have it seen another pilgrim. So my phone has been pretty handy!

 

[wcsjms]

Don't see the problem. The smart phone is just another tool. You choose to use it or not. I have been in the Camino Sureste for two weeks and except for one evening when the Sureste and Levante joined I have it seen another pilgrim. So my phone has been pretty handy!

Great !!!

 

[Annie Little]

the clue is in the word - you have to experience it ..

So very true .... BE in the moment ....

I had people from home ask me what could share of my inner enlightenments ........ I replied : I can't do that because my experience , my lessons , my inner learnings will not be the same as another's . You have to experience things for yourself .
Not to mention that what I learnt did not come as a flash of lightening / bolt out of the blue .... it came as a gentle unfolding which opened over days and months even after I got home . Some of it I could put words to and some of it is in feelings I have .
In trying to explain these type of experiences I lessen them I feel because there is much that cannot be explained. And I prefer not to try

Ultreia

 

[BillyJane70]

Billy - I am one of those pilgrims of the past (2005) and I say No Thanks!

Hi David, I was referring to those pilgrims who walked just a few hundred years before you.

 

[David]

Hi David, I was referring to those pilgrims who walked just a few hundred years before you.

I know. But your belief in what medieval pilgrims were like and what they would have wanted is just something you have made up in your mind to support what you already think. It isn't based upon evidence. Just because we can think something does not make it true.

 

[Coleen Clark]

I had a phone when I walked the Frances in 2015, and I used it to take photographs and send them back to my grandkids (I was AdventureNana!) and to the group at the church who were not able to go on Camino that were following my every step. They even had a map in the Social Hall and would argue where to put the pin!
My nephew taught me how to take pictures and how to get on the internet and how to send the photos out to Facebook for everyone.
Some nights there was no Wifi, some there were.
I learned how to text when I got back and thought I was hot stuff, until a young friend asked me if I twittered.
Well, no, but I can text. Is that the same?
She just sighed and rolled her eyes back.
I can't help being an analog girl in a digital world.

 

[Priscilla NC]

What a rich thread! Thanks, David, for starting it and to all for your thoughts.

As I planned my Camino last spring, I wanted some kind of mechanism to keep in touch with people who were very interested in hearing about my pilgrimage as I walked.

I had a Facebook account but had not been a heavy user of FB. I rarely posted anything. But I decided that this would be the easiest way to keep in touch.

I don't think I would do this again. I found myself, every time I was in a bar or albergue, to check for comments or 'likes'. It became addictive! The good part was having a group of people 'gathered' from all the walks of my life (I've lived in a number of states) -- my friends from various periods felt like a community for the first time in my life.

But I have to admit that it became a distraction and a way to feed my ego, which I didn't need. It did impact my pilgrimage in some not-so-good ways.

 

[bbates225]

I found myself, and I didn't even know I was lost.
I mean, I'm kinda big to misplace. Still, with all the responsibilities and noise and binge watching Deadwood, Downton Abbey and Game of Thrones I had no brain cells left for self-actualization, reflection, and general psychic upkeep.
I found walking cleaned the mind, flushed the excess goop and I was ready to see who I really was.
Sounds like a job Mr. Plumber would do, but when I looked at me the good outweighed the bad.
Sure, I had to accept some not so nice things about me (not sharing...wouldn't want to give young people night terrors), but all in all I'd be friends with me if I met me at an Albergue. I'd even buy me café con leche.
Because that's the kind of me I am.

Hola, I notice you are planning on walking in August. I will be back home by then, but I would have liked to meet you and I would buy you a café con leche for sure. I need a cleanse and I know that I will find some not so nice things about me, other than the things I already know about. But I think deep down I'm a good person and like you, I would be friends with me. And anyone who binge watched Downton Abbey can't be all bad . I wouldn't even watch the final season until I could binge watch it all at once. I'll have a café con leche on the Camino and think of you.

Buen Camino,
Bonnie

 

[Katie Brown]

I wonder if she is old enough to recognize this one. I sure am! Too funny........

that would be a nope! lol

I am thinking I will do similar as to what David says. Set up a plan with my mother, where I will only reply every 3 days or so.

I have to agree with Pricilla as well. I found myself a little addicted to showing people on the internet about my journey. Only to realize when I got home that not a whole lot of them gave a crap about my camino, mainly because I don't think they really know what it is, and I don't think they care enough to research it. Fair enough. I probably wouldn't either if the tables were turned. I need to remember that on my next Camino. This is my journey. I don't have to tell other people about it. So why should I?

 

[JennyH94]

Hola, I notice you are planning on walking in August. I will be back home by then, but I would have liked to meet you and I would buy you a café con leche for sure. I need a cleanse and I know that I will find some not so nice things about me, other than the things I already know about. But I think deep down I'm a good person and like you, I would be friends with me. And anyone who binge watched Downton Abbey can't be all bad . I wouldn't even watch the final season until I could binge watch it all at once. I'll have a café con leche on the Camino and think of you.

Buen Camino,
Bonnie

This is a wonderful thread David - thank you so much for starting the discussion.

I have a message for Bonnie -

Hi Bonnie -

Your post really touched my heart - 99.9% of us are flawed and broken due to decisions we've made in life and due to circumstances beyond our control.

As our fantastic mspath has said in another thread just today, "Solvitur Ambulando" - it is solved by walking. On the Camino you can acknowledge those not so nice things about yourself that you know about at the surface level and also deal with those that have been buried - let them all go. By walking you will face those sadnesses, because they are sadnesses, deal with them and solve them by leaving them in the past, where they belong. You can find another way on the Camino and be renewed out on those ancient and sacred paths. You may know about the tradition of leaving a pebble from your home town at the Cruz de Ferro - the ritual of leaving the pebble can be about anything or anyone you wish. You can project any thoughts you like into the pebble and then leave it at the Cruz - this is a really powerful and cleansing experience.

Something which is really good to do is look back at your life in five year blocks - DanfromSydney here on the Forum (Dan Mullins who does the 'My Camino - the podcast' series), did this on his camino last year. He looked at the good and the bad in those five year blocks and he even sang songs from those times. At the end he found the contemplation of all those years a wonderfully healing and cathartic experience. You might like to do this.

A few of us Forum members (at least!) will be on the Camino when you are next month and in July. Why not order one of the Forum Member badges from Ivar's Camino Forum Store (link to the store at the top right hand of this page). This is a great thing to have on your pack - of course it identifies you as a Forum Member and it's a GREAT conversation starter with all who you meet.

I hope that our paths may cross on The Way and in the meantime, wish you Buen Camino -

Take joy in every step -

Jenny

 

[Coleen Clark]

Hola, I notice you are planning on walking in August. I will be back home by then, but I would have liked to meet you and I would buy you a café con leche for sure. I need a cleanse and I know that I will find some not so nice things about me, other than the things I already know about. But I think deep down I'm a good person and like you, I would be friends with me. And anyone who binge watched Downton Abbey can't be all bad . I wouldn't even watch the final season until I could binge watch it all at once. I'll have a café con leche on the Camino and think of you.

Buen Camino,
Bonnie

Oh Bonnie!
My kinda girl! I get drawn into those series and then don't get anything done. Perhaps I have an addictive personality. I know I need more than one Camino.
I hope and pray that your Camino was everything you needed, and more.
I know my Guardian Angel is looking forward to mine. He keeps saying things like "I thought I warned you about that" and "Put that down! Why are you doing that again!" and "When you finally get to Portugal I'm gonna take a vacation."
So do Guardian Angels have a stand in when they go on vacation, or are you left to your own devices?
Not that I'd do anything too naughty......not me...

 

[BillyJane70]

I know. But your belief in what medieval pilgrims were like and what they would have wanted is just something you have made up in your mind to support what you already think. It isn't based upon evidence. Just because we can think something does not make it true.

All your comments and references are based on your experience David. I travelled extensively throughout the world, pre mobile devices, pre phone cards. Lived in countries where I couldn't speak the language and the phone calls were so prohibitively expensive that I couldn't afford to make them. I was on this journey for many years. I was travelling through Spain for months in 1998, south to north, west to east. Cyber cafes full of smoke were few and far between. I survived, on a backpacker budget without a phone. And it times it was very isolating.

I know. But your belief in what medieval pilgrims were like and what they would have wanted is just something you have made up in your mind to support what you already think. It isn't based upon evidence. Just because we can think something does not make it true.

David, I was using a little bit of humour to illuminate the fact that not every person who walks the Camino, past and present, enjoys nor craves the isolation. Sorry you made into something other than that. How about unloading some of that pomposity, condescension and nostalgia. Your pack will be so much lighter and your next pilgrimages will be a breeze! And don't forget to always look on the bright side of Life.

 

[David]

All your comments and references are based on your experience David. I travelled extensively throughout the world, pre mobile devices, pre phone cards. Lived in countries where I couldn't speak the language and the phone calls were so prohibitively expensive that I couldn't afford to make them. I was on this journey for many years. I was travelling through Spain for months in 1998, south to north, west to east. Cyber cafes full of smoke were few and far between. I survived, on a backpacker budget without a phone. And it times it was very isolating.

David, I was using a little bit of humour to illuminate the fact that not every person who walks the Camino, past and present, enjoys nor craves the isolation. Sorry you made into something other than that. How about unloading some of that pomposity, condescension and nostalgia. Your pack will be so much lighter and your next pilgrimages will be a breeze! And don't forget to always look on the bright side of Life.

Steady now. In my response I did not say what I thought medieval pilgrims were like, only that suppositions about what 'they' would have wanted were mental constructs, imaginings to support one's own beliefs, and had no value beyond that.
I may be wrong but I don't think travelling amongst low technology modern societies is not the same as travelling in the medieval period where the mindset, specifically the religious mindset, was completely different to today.

I do not have nostalgia for any period - and nostalgia isn't what it used to be anyway.

I take offence at you insulting me in public online as having and using "pomposity, condescension". You could have sent me a private message rather than insult me in public. My position on electronics, above, is clear. I do not say 'no' to them - I take a smartphone with me - only that there is a difference between going on Camino and going on a deep religious/spiritual pilgrimage and on the latter electronics are a 'no', and that this is so with all religions of the world - therefore it is not merely my opinion nor personal experience but a universally accepted truth.

Please - no more public insults. Should you wish to insult me further please do it by private message.

Thank you - and Buen Camino.

 

[JulieandPeter]

I find it sort of ironic that we are all staring at an electronic device right now.

 

[Rick M]

I find it sort of ironic that we are all staring at an electronic device right now. ;-)

I find it equally ironic that we are arguing about electronic devices on the Camino via electronic devices, while we are all NOT on the Camino. I should be just finishing off 30 Km and checking into the albergue now........so I could check my electronic device with a clear conscience!

 

[bbates225]

This is a wonderful thread David - thank you so much for starting the discussion.

I have a message for Bonnie -

Hi Bonnie -

Your post really touched my heart - 99.9% of us are flawed and broken due to decisions we've made in life and due to circumstances beyond our control.

As our fantastic mspath has said in another thread just today, "Solvitur Ambulando" - it is solved by walking. On the Camino you can acknowledge those not so nice things about yourself that you know about at the surface level and also deal with those that have been buried - let them all go. By walking you will face those sadnesses, because they are sadnesses, deal with them and solve them by leaving them in the past, where they belong. You can find another way on the Camino and be renewed out on those ancient and sacred paths. You may know about the tradition of leaving a pebble from your home town at the Cruz de Ferro - the ritual of leaving the pebble can be about anything or anyone you wish. You can project any thoughts you like into the pebble and then leave it at the Cruz - this is a really powerful and cleansing experience.

A few of us Forum members (at least!) will be on the Camino when you are next month and in July. Why not order one of the Forum Member badges from Ivar's Camino Forum Store (link to the store at the top right hand of this page). This is a great thing to have on your pack - of course it identifies you as a Forum Member and it's a GREAT conversation starter with all who you meet.

I hope that our paths may cross on The Way and in the meantime, wish you Buen Camino -

Take joy in every step -

Jenny

Thank you so much Jenny, for your very kind words. They mean so much to me. I have ordered a few things from Ivar already... don't know why I didn't think to order the Forum Member badge. I'll do it today. I think I still have enough time for it to get across to me. I do have my small stone from home to be left at Cruz de Ferro. As I hiked today as part of my ongoing training, I told myself that I have to start my pilgrimage with an open heart and an open mind and be prepared for what comes. I look forward to meeting forum members and getting to know them personally as well as any others I may cross paths with.

Buen Camino,
Bonnie

 

[bbates225]

Oh Bonnie!
My kinda girl! I get drawn into those series and then don't get anything done. Perhaps I have an addictive personality. I know I need more than one Camino.
I hope and pray that your Camino was everything you needed, and more.
I know my Guardian Angel is looking forward to mine. He keeps saying things like "I thought I warned you about that" and "Put that down! Why are you doing that again!" and "When you finally get to Portugal I'm gonna take a vacation."
So do Guardian Angels have a stand in when they go on vacation, or are you left to your own devices?
Not that I'd do anything too naughty......not me...

Haven't actually done my Camino yet... June 1 - July 22. Allowed myself plenty of time to find out what it has in store for me. Hoping to go with an open mind and an open heart and let the Camino speak to me in any way it chooses. Not sure if my Guardian Angles will accompany me or not but I kinda hope so At least until if and when I get my Camino legs. Then if they want to go on vacation, I will wish them well.

 

[Gary May]

Solvitur Ambulando might be our walking motto! Read why and how all is or may be solved by walking here.

A great article - thank you for the link! The below excerpt sums up the Camino perfectly:
'Often by “taking a walk” we mean that we’re not walking to get anywhere in particular. But even when we are walking toward a destination, when we’re walking to connect two places, the in-between — the space, the interval — can be more important.'

 

[tomnorth]

There is a wonderful children's book called The Three Questions, by John Muth, that I think has something to teach us. One of the questions is, "Who is the most important one?" The answer, the one you are with. Too often I think we have an unhealthy relationship with our technology and treat it as the most important one. I think if you can have a healthy relationship with technology and not obsess about it, it is possible to bring it and use it on the pilgrimage and not have it get in the way. But if you find yourself feeling compelled to check that text that just came in, regardless of whether you are driving your car or are having lunch with a friend, then you are treating your technology as if it is the most important one and it will get in the way, because you are allowing it to.

 

[mariahiles]

I think my mother might just kill me if I turn my phone off completely during my next Camino, lol.
Though I wish I could just turn it all off. Be 100%, completely immersed in every aspect of the way.

This is how I feel as well. Both my mom, daughter and grandkids want to know I am safe. I did however tell them I will not be in touch daily, maybe twice a week, and I will post a picture to facebook daily so they can see I am ok. I am sooo looking forward to this time to unplug and just walk.

 

[Missing Mike]

The Camino—The Journey of Life

It is so easy to judge yourself or someone else. Good, Bad, Right or Wrong. Making these judgements create emotions inside us and once again you can judge them. The truth of it—IT JUST IS!!

My Camino started the moment I was told my only son had ended his journey in his body. Four months later I started The Camino. I later understood that I never walked alone. My son had come with me and for many, many miles he had me say to myself “We (him, my mom, God or the Easter Bunny; whatever you choose to call we) are with you every moment, for your highest good, you are not alone.” So many times along the camino I had amazing experiences from him that blew my mind, truly amazing.

He made his choices, he lived his life/journey. Who am I to judge him or his choices? I learned from my mom when I was 6 years old when she died. When all is said and done memories are all you have left.

Tomorrow is Mother's Day and last year I was walking the camino and knew this would be a very hard day for me and was thinking to take a day of rest to deal with my feelings. A very wise fellow pilgrim said to me, “It is your Camino, your choice, I suggest that you walk the camino instead.” I choose to walk that day and I found I was not walking alone. I was walking with my son, mother and all my family from many generations. I could actually feel them!

I guess what I am getting at is who are we to judge someone's choices? Our journey of life is our journey, our choices, our memories.

And yes, I choose to take my phone for the biggest reason was to have pictures, mainly videos to help create my memories of my journey on The Camino.

And my journey continues...

Davina

 

[Simon Shum]

It's fantastic to see all these sharing, most if not all of us benefit from the Camino! Walking in serenity allows my mind to shift away from being analytical, judgemental, like/dislike etc. mind becomes totally free from any mental string, totally non/abiding! I see wisdom arising, with kindness love and respect for all around! Wonderful equanimity! After 5 Caminos of this enjoyment of walking meditation, I see myself able to switch back and forth, phone or no phone, what is the difference!
Buen Camino de Vida!
Simple Simon.