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When the Camino again has Pilgrims...

2020 Camino Guides

Zordmot

First timer Spring 2019
Camino(s) past & future
April-May 2019
I’ll say upfront that I’m not trying to rush things and I’m not minimizing the present moment with so much suffering, death, grief, financial insecurity, fear, and anxiety. Both in Spain and in many of our home countries( I’m from the US). I also know that no one can predict when pilgrims will again appear on the Camino and be welcomed. I offer a prayer for all those many who are affected by this virus and all those giving their all and risking their lives.

Having said that, I was just wondering if any of you have been contacting albergues along the CF and if so, are they are booking reservations and what start date are they forecasting.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances , Pamplona Burgos august 2018 Burgos to Santiago 19 /04 to 20/05/2019
Hi!Since I started my walk from Burgos last year 17th of April and finished in Santiago 20th of May ( yes !.. i took my time!!)I will send a message of empathy each day to all the cafés I had my morning break tortilla and coffee con leche in, the bars I can remembers for bocadillos and the daily Albergues!

I kept a precise list of them and it will be a manner to show them we pilgrim care for Spain
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
Hello Zordmot and thank you for your kind thoughts, I'm sure they will apply worldwide. I haven't tried booking, but I don't usually book anyway. Many places won't take bookings, it's not usually a problem. CF has a lot of places to stay. When the lockdown is over and you are happy it's time for you to go, set forth in faith.
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
Our mind state, reflections, re Camino are interesting aren't they ... even during WW11 the UK people were thinking of the future, what they would do after the war .. and I think our mental processes are the same - it is what humans do and, to me it is a positive thing.
I would be surprised if any refugios are taking the gamble to take reservations at the moment - who knows when this will end ... and many, sadly, will never re-open ... they will have gone to the wall ...

When the plague came I closed the Camino off completely in my mind, even thought that I might never go again .. but I have recently moved into a new home and I finally took my Camino first aid and trailer boxes inside from the shed to store them properly, as well as my Camino Store stock (store closed of course) - and it all flooded back, the gates in my mind swung open and there I was standing there wondering when I could go back ... longing to go back .. so your question re reservations ... I get that.

I get that so also would be interested to know if any refugios are speaking to the world saying that they will open again.
 

Finisterre

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Sarria 2001,
Porto 2006,
Valenca 2008,
Finisterre 2010,
SJdPP 2012,
Tui 2014.

No plans to return, yet.
Being held back makes me want to go forward.

Maybe when I can go I won't want to?

I'm making no bookings.
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
I’ll say upfront that I’m not trying to rush things and I’m not minimizing the present moment with so much suffering, death, grief, financial insecurity, fear, and anxiety. Both in Spain and in many of our home countries( I’m from the US). I also know that no one can predict when pilgrims will again appear on the Camino and be welcomed. I offer a prayer for all those many who are affected by this virus and all those giving their all and risking their lives.

Having said that, I was just wondering if any of you have been contacting albergues along the CF and if so, are they are booking reservations and what start date are they forecasting.
I can only say that I have some bookings for late May and June. One of the businesses sent me an email basically saying - please don't cancel, we're still hoping to open as soon as we're able.
I don't think I will be able to go then, but I can afford to wait and see.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015, 2017, 2019) and plans for 2020 (Sept, Oct)
My wife and I are / were planning to walk CF for the fourth time this fall - mid Sept to late Oct. Late last year I made private room reservations for every night. About 2/3 of the reservations were made on Booking.com and should still be valid. I can cancel without penalty up to two weeks ahead. The remaining third of reservations I made directly with the private albergues. I plan to wait until June or July to check with them and determine whether to cancel or reconfirm.
 

LTfit

Veteran Member
I took over Albergue Villares de Órbigo on March 13th and closed my doors two days later:(.

Understandably I have received email cancellations for the months April and May, others have not yet officially cancelled, probably because they assume I know they won't be coming. It still is polite to do so.

No one has yet to cancel for June but the Camino will not be up and running by then, not because we do not want to but because the health situation here in Spain will not allow it. At this point we don't even know how long we will be in lockdown. For sure it will be extended in one form or another beyond April 25th.

It is a waiting game, for us all. And although I am on the ground and live on the Camino Francés, I have no crystal ball😉

Ultreia!
 

Zordmot

First timer Spring 2019
Camino(s) past & future
April-May 2019
I took over Albergue Villares de Órbigo on March 13th and closed my doors two days later:(.

Understandably I have received email cancellations for the months April and May, others have not yet officially cancelled, probably because they assume I know they won't be coming. It still is polite to do so.

No one has yet to cancel for June but the Camino will not be up and running by then, not because we do not want to but because the health situation here in Spain will not allow it. At this point we don't even know how long we will be in lockdown. For sure it will be extended in one form or another beyond April 25th.

It is a waiting game, for us all. And although I am on the ground and live on the Camino Francés, I have no crystal ball😉

Ultreia!
I really look forward to being your guest in 2020. I’ve followed your posts and have heard so much about your albergue that I absolutely have to stop. I’ve stayed at two other albergues in your neighborhood and each one was a true high point of that Camino for me. There must be something in the water there! Thanks for your posts. Keeping you in heart and prayer as one day leads to the next. Tom
 

katie@camino

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF, SJPDP-Finisterre 2016;CP (Central) Porto-SdC 2017;CP (Coastal) Porto-SdC 2018;CF Leon-SdC 2019
I took over Albergue Villares de Órbigo on March 13th and closed my doors two days later:(.

Understandably I have received email cancellations for the months April and May, others have not yet officially cancelled, probably because they assume I know they won't be coming. It still is polite to do so.

No one has yet to cancel for June but the Camino will not be up and running by then, not because we do not want to but because the health situation here in Spain will not allow it. At this point we don't even know how long we will be in lockdown. For sure it will be extended in one form or another beyond April 25th.

It is a waiting game, for us all. And although I am on the ground and live on the Camino Francés, I have no crystal ball😉

Ultreia!
LTfit - I hope my 3 friends and I will meet you in late July-early August 2020!
 

Zordmot

First timer Spring 2019
Camino(s) past & future
April-May 2019
Thanks so much everyone for your thoughts and reflections. I’m not a doctor and certainly know nothing about this or any other virus but at age 64 I am getting a sense of how this human species tends to respond. My observation is that the enlightened governmental leaders that are preaching staying at home are doing the right thing. This is a time for restraint, separation, reflection, grief, realignment to a new reality. But I also predict that as the numbers go back down the curve the public everywhere will be chompin’ at the bit to get back out there. Our leaders will continue to preach restraint but the herd will be ready to engage again and the leaders will capitulate. I imagine this happening in North America as well as Spain and France. If the numbers continue to trend downward I predict this will be sooner rather than later. Just my thoughts
 

lt56ny

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(2012) Le Puy/CF (2015) Portugues (2017) Norte (2018) CF (2019)
The experts, and I do not mean political experts, I think unanimously feel that even if things quiet down in the summer somewhat, there will be a rebound in the fall. This does not even take into consideration the devastation that will be happening in 3rd World Countries that are even less equipped to handle what most certainly awaits them. The "best" equipped countries have been exposed for their woeful unpreparedness for a pandemic. The consensus of the top scientific/medical minds in the world say it will not be "safe" again until there is a vaccine. There are promising vaccines being developed and are in or are going into phase one trials very soon. The trials must be conducted and then the wide scale manufacture of the vaccine must take place. We are talking about hundreds of millions if not billions of initial doses. This all takes time. The latest predictions I have read in medical journals is production will probably not be able to commence until the second quarter of 2021 or even 3rd quarter. It is great to hope and dream. I was hoping for a start on the Via de la Plata of March 2021. I am now thinking at best October of 2021. We all must have hope but it is more important now to take care of ourselves and our families and if we possess the financial means to weather this nightmare, a helping hand to the most vulnerable members of our neighborhoods, towns and cities where we live. The urgent need is worldwide but you do not have to travel very far at all to discover this need.
 
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Dfehr

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Portugal Coastal June 2020
I can only say that I have some bookings for late May and June. One of the businesses sent me an email basically saying - please don't cancel, we're still hoping to open as soon as we're able.
I don't think I will be able to go then, but I can afford to wait and see.
I had a full trip starting June 3 in Portugal..part of me says start working on the cancellations, but another part of me says be patient, it may change...April will tell...TBH, if they opened up in May, I would be on my flight and going..blessings to all affected by this, but I think positive thoughts moving forward is healing...at least it is for me. Peace!
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
I had a full trip starting June 3 in Portugal..part of me says start working on the cancellations, but another part of me says be patient, it may change...April will tell...TBH, if they opened up in May, I would be on my flight and going..blessings to all affected by this, but I think positive thoughts moving forward is healing...at least it is for me. Peace!
The world is not going to stop for 18 months. Life will go on. If I'm able I will probably go. It's your choice.
 

alhartman

346 joyful days in Spain and France since 2005
Camino(s) past & future
Hope so!
My heart wants yet another camino (still wanting to get 365 camino days before I stop).
My mind says that the world will never be the way it was. Humanity's only working tool to suppress transmission is social distancing. For most of us, the camino experience is the opposite of social distancing. Until the medical experts (virologists and epidemiologists) can propose a new paradigm, and the policy makers and politicians issue new rules and guidelines, I fear there will not be another camino.
I cannot imagine any rule or process that would make albergues a safe haven until there is a vaccine with an official card proving valid vaccination or antibodies. That seems some 18 months off.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances and Invierno (2019)
Camino Frances (2021)
I hope to take a little trip on CF in September 👣🙏🏻 I hope all the albergues and bars will still be there, but maybe that’s too much to hope for 🙏🏻🤞❤
I had volunteered for an albergue in Astorga this may, but the borders are closed so I have to stay home.
Buen Camino to everybody
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
The world is not going to stop for 18 months. Life will go on. If I'm able I will probably go. It's your choice.
The international skiing federation (FIS) has warned today that all arrangements/competitions for the next season are now most likely to be cancelled. Health experts are expecting a second, stronger outburst the coming autumn.

I want to walk another Camino as much as anyone else. I was due to land in Madrid exactly one week from now... No way (no pun intended). We have to be very realistic about when we can go again...

I fear that many private albergues, bars & restaurants along the various Caminos will never open again, but if they do, it will be for next season/year.
 
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Dfehr

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Portugal Coastal June 2020
I have zero experience in the Camino, no expectations or comments.. I hope you are wrong, but you may be right. I'm following the rules that are laid out..but one can dream..nobody can take that away. And if everything did open up in May, I would still go. That's just me.
 

notion900

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
>
I fear that many private albergues, bars & restaurants along the various Caminos will never open again, but if they do, it will be for next season/year.
Rural Spain has gone through severe economic problems in the past, so I wouldn't write off the albergues and bars permanently yet. Plus numbers fluctuate dramatically according to whether it's a holy year or not, so there's some kind of a medium term buffer built in, as this pandemic didn't happen in a holy year. But realistically, I can't see anything happening on the caminos this year. Next year is holy year, so with any luck in getting tests and vaccines in place, it might be like a fairly quiet normal year for numbers.
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
Next year is holy year, so with any luck in getting tests and vaccines in place, it might be like a fairly quiet normal year for numbers.
The same has been in my thoughts. A Holy Year next year may be a lifesaver for the Caminos, given that this pandemic is gone by then.
 

Michael; Camino-addicted

Take your time to enjoy a beautiful moment
Camino(s) past & future
A few Caminos
Next plan - Camino de Baztan
Normally I don´t book Albergues in advance, but for my Camino in June, I needed a place to meet with my sister, who wanted to join me after the first week, so I booked in January a room in the Albergue Casa Maralotx in Cirauqui.
A few days ago I looked at their website and they started a campaign of booking in advance for the time after Corona. They asked the pilgrims to pay now and get a voucher and during your visite a little discount to the normal price.

I know that there are safer investments, but I hate doing nothing. If the Albergue does not survive this difficult time, the price for this one night stay, which I have now paid in advance, will not ruin me. Now the risk must be spread over many shoulders,

And if many pilgrims help many Albergues in this way, I´m sure we can achieve a lot

@LTfit Would this perhaps be an idea that you could offer to your guests who have already made reservations?
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean May/June 2017. Plans to walk Porto 2020
G'Day @David, you are correct. We humans need to "look to the future" otherwise what else is there. I agree it is unfortunate that a number of the privately operated albergues will not return when the Pilgrims return.
Happy Easter. ;):cool:
 
Camino(s) past & future
Via de la Plata, Seville to Santiago 2016; Camino Frances May 2020 - postponed by COVID
Our mind state, reflections, re Camino are interesting aren't they ... even during WW11 the UK people were thinking of the future, what they would do after the war .. and I think our mental processes are the same - it is what humans do and, to me it is a positive thing.
David, I think you're right - many of us will be able to focus on the future positively, in a way we normally wouldn't, during this strange time that we're living in. And for many of us, the strangeness of the times will give us something bigger than our own more general existential angst to focus on - I think this is a great thing. For some of us however, especially those hit directly by the deaths of loved ones, or perhaps financially ruined by the economic crisis which at some point the "experts" say will follow, this might be much harder to recover from.

I really like your sentiments about the general optimism of humanity - maybe this will prove to be an opportunity for those of us who can to harness this optimism in order to assist those of us who are struggling at the moment, both at home and along the camino.

If anybody (I'm not a business guru or entrepreneur but I'm sure somebody on the forum is) can suggest a meaningful way that we might be able to organise ourselves to collectively assist those people who live and work on the camino in some practical fashion - I'd be keen to contribute somehow.

In the meantime, I'll look forward to getting back there again, as soon as I can safely (for me and for the rest of society) do so.

Buen Camino!
 

JennyH94

Pilgrim in progress
Camino(s) past & future
CF - sections and whole (2012-2019) and part VF (2017)
The following is a post, written yesterday, from Sue and Fermin at the wonderful Casa Susi albergue at Trabadelo. It’s on their Casa Susi Facebook page:

“Today would have been the start of Season 4.
We are incredibly sad that our doors remain closed.
There is no laughter in our albergue.
No pilgrims with blisters or lost towels.
No one singing or international accents.
No hugs of joy from old friends of ten days ago that have missed each other.
No bookings to be made or dinners to prepare.
There is only silence here.
With ‘hope’ that one day the world will ‘right’ itself and our doors will open again ...”

@LTfit - I think of you as I reflect on these sad words from Sue and Fermin and I think of every albergue owner on the Camino whose doors must remain shut.

With support from Oz as we continue to navigate our way through this truly awful virus.

Jenny xxx

70C5F9EE-04E4-44E9-95CD-1AF302159F79.jpeg26CA4385-4890-4444-93CE-E862207019AA.jpeg
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances sept-oct 2018
(Via Tolosana Sept 2020 - alas! deferred)
The following is a post, written yesterday, from Sue and Fermin at the wonderful Casa Susi albergue at Trabadelo. It’s on their Casa Susi Facebook page:

“Today would have been the start of Season 4.
We are incredibly sad that our doors remain closed.
There is no laughter in our albergue.
No pilgrims with blisters or lost towels.
No one singing or international accents.
No hugs of joy from old friends of ten days ago that have missed each other.
No bookings to be made or dinners to prepare.
There is only silence here.
With ‘hope’ that one day the world will ‘right’ itself and our doors will open again ...”

@LTfit - I think of you as I reflect on these sad words from Sue and Fermin and I think of every albergue owner on the Camino whose doors must remain shut.

With support from Oz as we continue to navigate our way through this truly awful virus.

Jenny xxx

View attachment 72894View attachment 72895
😪
 
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
Normally I don´t book Albergues in advance, but for my Camino in June, I needed a place to meet with my sister, who wanted to join me after the first week, so I booked in January a room in the Albergue Casa Maralotx in Cirauqui.
A few days ago I looked at their website and they started a campaign of booking in advance for the time after Corona. They asked the pilgrims to pay now and get a voucher and during your visite a little discount to the normal price.

I know that there are safer investments, but I hate doing nothing. If the Albergue does not survive this difficult time, the price for this one night stay, which I have now paid in advance, will not ruin me. Now the risk must be spread over many shoulders,

And if many pilgrims help many Albergues in this way, I´m sure we can achieve a lot

@LTfit Would this perhaps be an idea that you could offer to your guests who have already made reservations?
I registered and paid in advance for a once-in-a-lifetime adventure motorcycle ride on the Pamir Highway in Tajikistan and neighboring countries this June, being led by Elpeth Beard (the first British woman to ride around the world). There are ten of us signed up - from UK, Australia, Canada and the US - and we all decided to leave our deposits/full payments with the company for a re-scheduled trip in June 2021. The little Silk Road Adventures company is very grateful for this, because if everybody cancels, they may not be around in a year.

I love the idea of buying "vouchers" for albergues on the Camino for a future stay. I wonder if that's something we could promote?
 
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
My guess is that the antibody test will be a critical determinant for opening up many parts of the world. Once there is a high level of immunity - most people exposed and now immune to this incredibly contagious virus - things will be different. I'm not sure how things will be, until a vaccine, for those who are still susceptible/vulnerable to Covid-19. I don't think anybody knows.
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
Rural Spain has gone through severe economic problems in the past, so I wouldn't write off the albergues and bars permanently yet. Plus numbers fluctuate dramatically according to whether it's a holy year or not, so there's some kind of a medium term buffer built in, as this pandemic didn't happen in a holy year. But realistically, I can't see anything happening on the caminos this year. Next year is holy year, so with any luck in getting tests and vaccines in place, it might be like a fairly quiet normal year for numbers.
No business will survive a year without income coming in. Of course new businesses will open up when people come back, but people will need to earn a living in the meantime.
 

LTfit

Veteran Member
Normally I don´t book Albergues in advance, but for my Camino in June, I needed a place to meet with my sister, who wanted to join me after the first week, so I booked in January a room in the Albergue Casa Maralotx in Cirauqui.
A few days ago I looked at their website and they started a campaign of booking in advance for the time after Corona. They asked the pilgrims to pay now and get a voucher and during your visite a little discount to the normal price.

I know that there are safer investments, but I hate doing nothing. If the Albergue does not survive this difficult time, the price for this one night stay, which I have now paid in advance, will not ruin me. Now the risk must be spread over many shoulders,

And if many pilgrims help many Albergues in this way, I´m sure we can achieve a lot

@LTfit Would this perhaps be an idea that you could offer to your guests who have already made reservations?
Thank you Michael for your suggestion. As I do not use Booking.com, when pilgrims make reservations there is no payment involved. I just trust that they will show up! Using a service as Booking comes with a fees and I try to keep my costs down.

There have been several Forum members who have contacted me, either to give me support (thank you!) or to offer to pay for a room for their virtual Camino. As I don't have Booking.com the only way I envision doing this is through a PayPal payment. Another idea is to check out my Camino de Santiago Buff resource:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-santiago-graffiti-buff-april-2020-update.80/. I have updated the information and have in fact added a few payment options to my PayPal button for those who would like to help out.

I have thought quite some time about all this - and Mods if you do not find this appropriate just delete, I certainly don't want to take advantage of this Forum. I have been quite reluctant to respond to offers up until now as so many of us are in difficult situations but maybe I should just accept the kind offers.

Ultreia dear pilgrims, I hope to be able to welcome you all in my home.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Thank you Michael for your suggestion. As I do not use Booking.com, when pilgrims make reservations there is no payment involved. I just trust that they will show up! Using a service as Booking comes with a fees and I try to keep my costs down.

There have been several Forum members who have contacted me, either to give me support (thank you!) or to offer to pay for a room for their virtual Camino. As I don't have Booking.com the only way I envision doing this is through a PayPal payment. Another idea is to check out my Camino de Santiago Buff resource:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-santiago-graffiti-buff-april-2020-update.80/. I have updated the information and have in fact added a few payment options to my PayPal button for those who would like to help out.

I have thought quite some time about all this - and Mods if you do not find this appropriate just delete, I certainly don't want to take advantage of this Forum. I have been quite reluctant to respond to offers up until now as so many of us are in difficult situations but maybe I should just accept the kind offers.

Ultreia dear pilgrims, I hope to be able to welcome you all in my home.
I don't see a picture of the Camino Buff or how to order it. What am I missing?
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
I see that you figured it out 🙏
The link takes you to the Resource Buff page and on the upper right hand corner there is an orange button that takes you to the PayPal page :)
Yes, I figured out how to purchase, but I still haven't found a photo of the Buff. I understand though that it's based on some Camino graffiti.
 

Vagabond Vieiras

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés and Norte many times all the way and in parts
I’ll say upfront that I’m not trying to rush things and I’m not minimizing the present moment with so much suffering, death, grief, financial insecurity, fear, and anxiety. Both in Spain and in many of our home countries( I’m from the US). I also know that no one can predict when pilgrims will again appear on the Camino and be welcomed. I offer a prayer for all those many who are affected by this virus and all those giving their all and risking their lives.

Having said that, I was just wondering if any of you have been contacting albergues along the CF and if so, are they are booking reservations and what start date are they forecasting.
We ( Vagabond VIEIRAS ) are still under construction at our donativo in La Portela de Valcarce but based on news we have heard, we anticipate sometime in the fall / winter. There is a good article about Spain’s plans in relation to re-opening the country to tourism it’s in the ABC.
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)

LTfit

Veteran Member
Here are the steps to purchase the Camino Buff.

Click on the link

Then click on the PayPal button


View attachment 72955


Then click on the drop down menu button


View attachment 72956

Choose Purchase Camino de Santiago Buff

View attachment 72957

Change amount to 20,00€

View attachment 72958
Wow, many thanks for the thorough explanation 🙏 and sorry, I did not mean to take over this thread.
 
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David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
I have noticed that when our (UK) ministers and scientists, at the daily live 5pm televised coronavirus briefing, speak of this they are now using the term "this first wave" as scientists believe that there will be a second wave of coronavirus later in the year, autumn.

Our Gov is planning to ease restrictions when they can - we had 1,000 deaths yesterday so it will be a while - but the plan for easing of restrictions, to open shops and businesses and to get the country running again, is to keep some restrictions, including social distancing, and that will stay in force until there is a vaccine, sometime in the middle of 2021 if all goes well. That is made more difficult as Covid-19 has already mutated into three strains (A, B, and C), all deadly, and there may be more mutations ahead.

If Spain does the same, removes lockdown but keeps certain restrictions such as social distancing - decisions being made on scientific evidence, not politics - then I cannot see how a refugio could work - where the social distancing? - so I now think that the Camino may be closed until there is a vaccine and it has been globally distributed :(.
 
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Smallest_Sparrow

Life is rarely what you expect or believe it to be
Camino(s) past & future
2012: most of some, all of a few, a bit of others
The same has been in my thoughts. A Holy Year next year may be a lifesaver for the Caminos, given that this pandemic is gone by then.
Rules that have been hard and fast on many things, from educational requirements to voting, have been changed overnight by this virus. St Peter’s Square is empty during Holy Week. Perhaps, if things aren’t contained enough to allow huge transnational crowds pouring into Spain to sleep and eat in crowded albergues, the Holy Year for the Camino might be extended to the following year, or even declared for all pilgrimage routes everywhere for the year following vaccine production: get tourism in those places and also religion back into business with a boost. If I were in charge of an albergue or a church, I’d start floating the idea of a special pilgrimage year worldwide to bring us all back together after painful isolation.
 

Amused212

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2019
I took over Albergue Villares de Órbigo on March 13th and closed my doors two days later:(.

Understandably I have received email cancellations for the months April and May, others have not yet officially cancelled, probably because they assume I know they won't be coming. It still is polite to do so.

No one has yet to cancel for June but the Camino will not be up and running by then, not because we do not want to but because the health situation here in Spain will not allow it. At this point we don't even know how long we will be in lockdown. For sure it will be extended in one form or another beyond April 25th.

It is a waiting game, for us all. And although I am on the ground and live on the Camino Francés, I have no crystal ball😉

Ultreia!
Wow, sorry you had to close. I was supposed to finish my camino this month from Leon to Santiago, then Finisterre and Muxia. Had listed your alberque to stay at (don't make reservations). I am praying for all of Spain and for your and your alberque. I hope everyone is soon healthy and businesses are able to reopen - but, of course, only when it is safe for all. Please keep us posted - it is helpful to hear from someone on the ground.
 

Zordmot

First timer Spring 2019
Camino(s) past & future
April-May 2019
The following is a post, written yesterday, from Sue and Fermin at the wonderful Casa Susi albergue at Trabadelo. It’s on their Casa Susi Facebook page:

“Today would have been the start of Season 4.
We are incredibly sad that our doors remain closed.
There is no laughter in our albergue.
No pilgrims with blisters or lost towels.
No one singing or international accents.
No hugs of joy from old friends of ten days ago that have missed each other.
No bookings to be made or dinners to prepare.
There is only silence here.
With ‘hope’ that one day the world will ‘right’ itself and our doors will open again ...”

@LTfit - I think of you as I reflect on these sad words from Sue and Fermin and I think of every albergue owner on the Camino whose doors must remain shut.

With support from Oz as we continue to navigate our way through this truly awful virus.

Jenny xxx

View attachment 72894View attachment 72895
Thanks Jenny for sharing these thoughts from Casa Susi. A lot of sad hearts here that sympathize ...and hope.
 

Tinkerbell76

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Finisterre y Muxia (2019)
Camino portugués (2020)
I had a full trip starting June 3 in Portugal..part of me says start working on the cancellations, but another part of me says be patient, it may change...April will tell...TBH, if they opened up in May, I would be on my flight and going..blessings to all affected by this, but I think positive thoughts moving forward is healing...at least it is for me. Peace!
I have the same thoughts. Flights for early June to walk Santiago to Porto and being patient and hopeful too, praying for this pandemic to be over soon so we can get some normality - it really depends on international travel restrictions...anyhow let’s enjoy the quiet Easter for now 🐥🐣🐥
 

Zordmot

First timer Spring 2019
Camino(s) past & future
April-May 2019
Yeah, me too. I keep receiving price notifications from Kayak—unheard of low fares from the US west coast in July and August.
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
Staying in an albergue (which we used to call a Refugio) is not an obligatory part of a pilgrimage. The object of a pilgrimage is to worship at the tomb of a saint or other venerated place. It is entirely acceptable to make a pilgrimage by any means of transport you choose, and stay in any accommodation you wish to use.
If you believe that the journey is the important part of your travel, then that's fine. But in that case it isn't a Catholic pilgrimage so you might as well go for your walk any place you choose that is open to you, and there is no reason to finish at any specific place. Every country in Europe has long distance footpaths full of cultural treasures. Many countries outside Europe have an equivalent, with either historical or natural interest. How about getting to know some other places to walk? Many will be available before Camino Santiago. You can return to Spain when things have settled down some more. Spain does not depend only on tourism, any more than other countries.
And if what you want is a pilgrimage, and you want to walk it, I'll be prepared to bet cash money that I can find you one nearer to your home, wherever you happen to live. Probably close enough for you to walk both ways. You can always stay in hotels, you can use what you save on air fares to pay for your accommodation.
Tomorrow is Easter Sunday. Perhaps you could spend some of the day meditating on the good things that are still happening in the world, and being grateful for what you have. If you wanted to go to Church and can't do so, then I'm sure you can find a service on television or the radio. I shall be playing Bach's Easter Oratorio very loudly.
 

Fromista

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015, 2017)
My heart wants yet another camino (still wanting to get 365 camino days before I stop).
My mind says that the world will never be the way it was. Humanity's only working tool to suppress transmission is social distancing. For most of us, the camino experience is the opposite of social distancing. Until the medical experts (virologists and epidemiologists) can propose a new paradigm, and the policy makers and politicians issue new rules and guidelines, I fear there will not be another camino.
I cannot imagine any rule or process that would make albergues a safe haven until there is a vaccine with an official card proving valid vaccination or antibodies. That seems some 18 months off.
I fully agree, unfortunately no Camino should start, without having a vaccine, and new regulation about official card proving valid vaccination ... It is not about the social distance during walking only, it is mainly about the sleeping circumstances, the crowded albergues... Please don't forget that this is also to protects our hosts, hospitaleros, not just the pilgrims.
 

anthikes

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2016 SJPdP > SdC
2018 Porto > SdC
2019 Sevilla > SdC
Good to see that some other people are being positive here as numbers of cases and deaths continue to fall in Spain.

Lots of talk about writing off the entire year, waiting for a vaccine (18 months perhaps in lockdown, seriously??) and giving Spain time to heal.

I think we need to consider the fact many jobs are reliant on tourism in Spain, and many lives will be further ruined if everyone stays away for a long time, even after the doors are open again.

I'd imagine Spanish people would like to return to normal as soon (and safely) as possible. That means people visiting their wonderful country and helping their economy, one of which that relies heavily on tourism.

When Spain is ready to have guests back and the albergues open their doors again then I will be one of the first there. I know some people won't like this attitude, but frankly there is little I can do about that. I care more about helping things get back to normal.
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
I fully agree, unfortunately no Camino should start, without having a vaccine, and new regulation about official card proving valid vaccination ... It is not about the social distance during walking only, it is mainly about the sleeping circumstances, the crowded albergues... Please don't forget that this is also to protects our hosts, hospitaleros, not just the pilgrims.
Yes, well. The last time I had to prove I had a vaccination it was for yellow fever. Which, quite frankly, is a lot more scary than Covid 19. It is not compulsory to stay in an Albergue. And if I have to have to prove I'm vaccinated to enter an Albergue I ain't staying in one. I may just buy a new tent. About time I did that, anyway. It's quieter and usually cleaner.
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
Barbara - good point about a tent - will we see that? Pilgrims playing it safe and sleeping in small lightweight tents? - waking up under the clear skies ... no snoring .. no bedbugs .... put me 2nd in line to you!!
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
I've done that, hardly ever slept inside on the Norte when i walked with Dalie. It was a quiet Camino then, in 2004. In fact, I think Dalie got a stable more often than I got a bed. I'm riding a bike now, so I need a lighter tent. Researching now for the best combination of light, waterproof, and quick to put up.
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
Re Barbara's tent option posts (above) - in this struggle to keep the forum active .. here's a thought ... a new thread, prefaced by the return to Camino and refugios and the probability that many pilgrims will choose to sleep outside in future .... lightweight tent options .. weight, price, dimensions .. and the minimum accessories one needs to carry to be comfortable ... list of refugios with gardens that accept tents etc etc ???

In the Equipment section? Barbara - do you want to start one??
 

anthikes

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2016 SJPdP > SdC
2018 Porto > SdC
2019 Sevilla > SdC
I always carry a tent on caminos and other long distance trails. Along with my sleep pad the weight is only 1.3kg, so not too much extra to carry.

Of course I don't camp much on a camino due to the availability of cheap beds, but has been really good when the albergue has allowed me to camp in their yard or garden. You really get the best of both worlds e.g. the sociable albergue but your own peace and quiet to retire to.

Could start to take off in the future. Who's going to want to share a room with 10s or 100s of strangers if there is any threat of catching a virus like covid?
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
Sounds like a plan. Off to equipment we go, then.
 

venerabledom

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Sept 2020 is booked for my first Camino Frances!
I’ll say upfront that I’m not trying to rush things and I’m not minimizing the present moment with so much suffering, death, grief, financial insecurity, fear, and anxiety. Both in Spain and in many of our home countries( I’m from the US). I also know that no one can predict when pilgrims will again appear on the Camino and be welcomed. I offer a prayer for all those many who are affected by this virus and all those giving their all and risking their lives.

Having said that, I was just wondering if any of you have been contacting albergues along the CF and if so, are they are booking reservations and what start date are they forecasting.
I'm due to start my first Camino Frances in mid-Sept :-( . I haven't booked anything other than the flight, I feel like many others that even with a drift back to "normal" - working, schools open, etc. there will be strong social distancing rules until there is enough people who've had it, or a Vaccine in place, which will take until next year. I am just grateful to be healthy as of now, the Camino will still be there next year. As a plan B, I am thinking of walking in the UK for a week instead - https://www.stcuthbertsway.info/long-distance-route/suggested-itineraries/
As someone already said - there's plenty of walks, religious or not, from our own little part of the Earth. Stay safe everyone.
 

Zordmot

First timer Spring 2019
Camino(s) past & future
April-May 2019
Staying in an albergue (which we used to call a Refugio) is not an obligatory part of a pilgrimage. The object of a pilgrimage is to worship at the tomb of a saint or other venerated place. It is entirely acceptable to make a pilgrimage by any means of transport you choose, and stay in any accommodation you wish to use.
If you believe that the journey is the important part of your travel, then that's fine. But in that case it isn't a Catholic pilgrimage so you might as well go for your walk any place you choose that is open to you, and there is no reason to finish at any specific place. Every country in Europe has long distance footpaths full of cultural treasures. Many countries outside Europe have an equivalent, with either historical or natural interest. How about getting to know some other places to walk? Many will be available before Camino Santiago. You can return to Spain when things have settled down some more. Spain does not depend only on tourism, any more than other countries.
And if what you want is a pilgrimage, and you want to walk it, I'll be prepared to bet cash money that I can find you one nearer to your home, wherever you happen to live. Probably close enough for you to walk both ways. You can always stay in hotels, you can use what you save on air fares to pay for your accommodation.
Tomorrow is Easter Sunday. Perhaps you could spend some of the day meditating on the good things that are still happening in the world, and being grateful for what you have. If you wanted to go to Church and can't do so, then I'm sure you can find a service on television or the radio. I shall be playing Bach's Easter Oratorio very loudly.
Whose recording of the Easter Oratorio? After walking the Camino last year an equal highlight for me was spending a month in Leipzig listening to about a dozen cantatas in St Thomas Church, where Bach served for 27 years
 

alhartman

346 joyful days in Spain and France since 2005
Camino(s) past & future
Hope so!
The criteria for reopening California announced by Governor Gavin Newsom seems like a starting point for what ‘the new normal’ may look like. This is likely to be the policy position of a coalition of Governors in Western USA states as they ignore national politics and decide on what is best for their citizens and businesses. We still are missing much scientific information on covid, and the politics and economics is still shaking out, but this is at least a glimpse of what may need to happen before a partial lifting of the lockdown is likely.

These are the six indicators that Newsom says will guide California's decision-making:
  • "The ability to monitor and protect our communities through testing, contact tracing, isolating, and supporting those who are positive or exposed;

  • "The ability to prevent infection in people who are at risk for more severe COVID-19;

  • "The ability of the hospital and health systems to handle surges;

  • "The ability to develop therapeutics to meet the demand;

  • "The ability for businesses, schools, and child care facilities to support physical distancing; and

  • "The ability to determine when to reinstitute certain measures, such as the stay-at-home orders, if necessary."

All 6 things look logical but very high level with no detail; and none give me optimism that a my next desired camino will remotely resemble the experiences of the past. (Yes, California is not Spain, but…………………….) I think my next camino only occur after I can receive an effective vaccine-and can travel with all kinds of new constraints as yet unknown.
 

Zordmot

First timer Spring 2019
Camino(s) past & future
April-May 2019
The criteria for reopening California announced by Governor Gavin Newsom seems like a starting point for what ‘the new normal’ may look like. This is likely to be the policy position of a coalition of Governors in Western USA states as they ignore national politics and decide on what is best for their citizens and businesses. We still are missing much scientific information on covid, and the politics and economics is still shaking out, but this is at least a glimpse of what may need to happen before a partial lifting of the lockdown is likely.

These are the six indicators that Newsom says will guide California's decision-making:
  • "The ability to monitor and protect our communities through testing, contact tracing, isolating, and supporting those who are positive or exposed;

  • "The ability to prevent infection in people who are at risk for more severe COVID-19;

  • "The ability of the hospital and health systems to handle surges;

  • "The ability to develop therapeutics to meet the demand;

  • "The ability for businesses, schools, and child care facilities to support physical distancing; and

  • "The ability to determine when to reinstitute certain measures, such as the stay-at-home orders, if necessary."

All 6 things look logical but very high level with no detail; and none give me optimism that a my next desired camino will remotely resemble the experiences of the past. (Yes, California is not Spain, but…………………….) I think my next camino only occur after I can receive an effective vaccine-and can travel with all kinds of new constraints as yet unknown.
The criteria for reopening California announced by Governor Gavin Newsom seems like a starting point for what ‘the new normal’ may look like. This is likely to be the policy position of a coalition of Governors in Western USA states as they ignore national politics and decide on what is best for their citizens and businesses. We still are missing much scientific information on covid, and the politics and economics is still shaking out, but this is at least a glimpse of what may need to happen before a partial lifting of the lockdown is likely.

These are the six indicators that Newsom says will guide California's decision-making:
  • "The ability to monitor and protect our communities through testing, contact tracing, isolating, and supporting those who are positive or exposed;

  • "The ability to prevent infection in people who are at risk for more severe COVID-19;

  • "The ability of the hospital and health systems to handle surges;

  • "The ability to develop therapeutics to meet the demand;

  • "The ability for businesses, schools, and child care facilities to support physical distancing; and

  • "The ability to determine when to reinstitute certain measures, such as the stay-at-home orders, if necessary."

All 6 things look logical but very high level with no detail; and none give me optimism that a my next desired camino will remotely resemble the experiences of the past. (Yes, California is not Spain, but…………………….) I think my next camino only occur after I can receive an effective vaccine-and can travel with all kinds of new constraints as yet unknown.
Thanks for the info, very helpful and very logical. I’m glad to be a resident and voter in California. Thanks also for your reflections—I quite agree with your tentative-not-really-conclusions- but-the-best-we-have-at-this-moment.
 

Molly Cassidy

Travelling light
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to start the Camino Frances from St Jean at the end of May (2020).
The criteria for reopening California announced by Governor Gavin Newsom seems like a starting point for what ‘the new normal’ may look like. This is likely to be the policy position of a coalition of Governors in Western USA states as they ignore national politics and decide on what is best for their citizens and businesses. We still are missing much scientific information on covid, and the politics and economics is still shaking out, but this is at least a glimpse of what may need to happen before a partial lifting of the lockdown is likely.

These are the six indicators that Newsom says will guide California's decision-making:
  • "The ability to monitor and protect our communities through testing, contact tracing, isolating, and supporting those who are positive or exposed;

  • "The ability to prevent infection in people who are at risk for more severe COVID-19;

  • "The ability of the hospital and health systems to handle surges;

  • "The ability to develop therapeutics to meet the demand;

  • "The ability for businesses, schools, and child care facilities to support physical distancing; and

  • "The ability to determine when to reinstitute certain measures, such as the stay-at-home orders, if necessary."

All 6 things look logical but very high level with no detail; and none give me optimism that a my next desired camino will remotely resemble the experiences of the past. (Yes, California is not Spain, but…………………….) I think my next camino only occur after I can receive an effective vaccine-and can travel with all kinds of new constraints as yet unknown.
That is very similar to the list given by the EU. There were only 3 points on that list but basically covering the same things.
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
Hi Zordmot
Munich Bach Orchestra
 

Fromista

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015, 2017)
Yes, well. The last time I had to prove I had a vaccination it was for yellow fever. Which, quite frankly, is a lot more scary than Covid 19. It is not compulsory to stay in an Albergue. And if I have to have to prove I'm vaccinated to enter an Albergue I ain't staying in one. I may just buy a new tent. About time I did that, anyway. It's quieter and usually cleaner.
I fully agree! I hate vaccinations.... only if it is a must.... last time I had to have some when I traveled to Asia, particularly Vietnam and Myanmar (Burma). I was planning to walk from Le Puy to Porto and sleeping in tent this summer... but we still need to shower, eat, so we need access to albergues, from time to time. I think by having a vaccination we will protect our hosts, hospitaleros and local people, too. It is not just about us.
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
It's not about hating vaccinations. They are a very good thing. When they exist. This one doesn't and may never. Wanting it is one thing. Having it is another. Shutting down the world's economy while we wait for a vaccine is also not a good thing.
I do not need access to albergues. I have traveled fairly widely, and I find hotels perfectly acceptable, thank you, on the occasions when I do not wish to camp. Food is widely available in France and Spain.
Our hosts will use their judgement as to when they open their facilities to us. Local people will need to earn money and will decide what risks they are prepared to take. I will use mine as to when I travel once travel is possible, as I am sure you will use yours. I choose not to use crowded communal lodgings, and to get my showers elsewhere. Last time I stayed on a campsite they had perfectly good showers.
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2014, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011, 2019. CP (2020)
All 6 things look logical but very high level with no detail; and none give me optimism that a my next desired camino will remotely resemble the experiences of the past. (Yes, California is not Spain, but…………………….) I think my next camino only occur after I can receive an effective vaccine-and can travel with all kinds of new constraints as yet unknown.
@alhartman, high level, yes. And it is likely that the interpretation will vary around the world.

I can understand people's desire for an effective vaccine, but we have been travelling for decades after the emergence of HIV as a global health threat, and we still don't have a vaccine for that. Vaccine development for SARS and MERS seems to have stalled or substantially slowed down as other measures halted the spread of these viruses.

I think people will be travelling, with increased caution, well before a safe and effective vaccine is available. Like HIV, I think it is more likely to have effective treatments emerge that will allow our medical systems to reduce the current high mortality levels and ease the pain and suffering of those who have been infected.
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
My thought is that mandated vaccinations before travel, due to COVID-19, is not likely to become a policy UNTIL the development, if ever, of an actual vaccine.

I can't imagine that when recovery from COVID-19 allows unrestricted movements, that borders and travel will be closed to tourism until a vaccine is produced and effectively distributed globally. That's not even addressing the issue of normal vaccination effectiveness rates, which only range from 40% to 85% for those disease for which there are vaccines. No vaccine approaches 100% effectiveness.

For personal health reasons, the largest group who will need to consider waiting on travel until a vaccine is produced, are those who are at the greatest risk, and the most fragile, for serious morbidity or mortality from COVID-19.

More likely to impact Camino plans, will be the potential requirements to redesign lodgings, like hostals and albergues, so that dorms become less the norm, and separate cubicles with adequate ventilated space become more common. After all, large spaces in dormitories CAN be effectively remolded. . . the separations do not have to be elaborate, but would result in loss of bedspace. Of course, the other impact are the facilities needing to have the cash necessary to fund such remodelings.

IF alburgue-style dorm lodgings are not allowed, there are still other lodgings that ARE more expensive, but that will still provide a bed at night at the end of a Camino walking day.

That's my speculation. YMMV :)
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
It's just a small thought, but I wonder if fewer people staying in specifically "pilgrim" accommodation would result in a greater focus on actually reaching Santiago and visiting the cathedral, rather than having a walk with friends. Turning attention to the object of the journey rather than the
means of locomotion, in effect. It might even result in people choosing to spend money on the way, rather than on their gear, benefiting the local economy rather than some vendor of backpacks and lightweight clothing.
I've seen a lot of changes in the St. James pilgrimage over 20 years.
Looks like there are more to come.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
More likely to impact Camino plans, will be the potential requirements to redesign lodgings, like hostals and albergues, so that dorms become less the norm,
I think that you mean hostels, not hostales. Hostales are very basic hotels with private rooms and baths.
 

Fromista

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015, 2017)
It's not about hating vaccinations. They are a very good thing. When they exist. This one doesn't and may never. Wanting it is one thing. Having it is another. Shutting down the world's economy while we wait for a vaccine is also not a good thing.
I do not need access to albergues. I have traveled fairly widely, and I find hotels perfectly acceptable, thank you, on the occasions when I do not wish to camp. Food is widely available in France and Spain.
Our hosts will use their judgement as to when they open their facilities to us. Local people will need to earn money and will decide what risks they are prepared to take. I will use mine as to when I travel once travel is possible, as I am sure you will use yours. I choose not to use crowded communal lodgings, and to get my showers elsewhere. Last time I stayed on a campsite they had perfectly good showers.
The whole world is working on the vaccinations. Can you imagine what a prestige it will be for the company who has it first? The vaccination will be available by the end of this year - the beginning of next year, scientists says. It just takes time to make the necessary tests. Than they need to produce the vaccinations in large scale and make it available for the public. It might take months. Then countries will have to purchase them for their citizens.
The question is who will get it first and when exactly - but we will have them for sure. Of course, not all countries will be able to get it, some will have it much before than the others.
Economy... money first... surprisingly that is what I hear all the time in the UK. There is no economy without people... The lock down is about saving human lives.
Hotels? No more comments...
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
The whole world is working on the vaccinations. Can you imagine what a prestige it will be for the company who has it first? The vaccination will be available by the end of this year - the beginning of next year, scientists says. It just takes time to make the necessary tests. Than they need to produce the vaccinations in large scale and make it available for the public. It might take months. Then countries will have to purchase them for their citizens.
The question is who will get it first and when exactly - but we will have them for sure. Of course, not all countries will be able to get it, some will have it much before than the others.
Economy... money first... surprisingly that is what I hear all the time in the UK. There is no economy without people... The lock down is about saving human lives.
Hotels? No more comments...
Yours is an interesting post.

International pandemic and national epidemic illnesses, in which vaccine development is possible, tends to be an intense Public-Private partnership. Often times, it is the BLS-4 laboratories, which are, primarily, government facilities that describe and characterize a pathogen's genome for targets for potential vaccine development.

Research is the most time consuming process, and involves huge expenditures of government time and money. Private pharmaceutical companies that do vaccine development all have equal access to that research. Governments will be further involved by funding much of what pharma companies will do in order to bring an effective vaccine protocol online. Government scientists will work with Pharma all through this phase.

So up to this point, no one Pharma corp will be able to really claim that a COVID-19 vaccine is 'their' discovery. In fact, not only is this going on in individual nations that have such capabilities, but it will be considered an international effort.

For instance, the American CDC's BLS-4 research, is being shared with Pastuer in France, and the DZIF in Germany. . among others.

What government needs from private Pharma is its capacity for production. Vaccine production for COVID-19 will involve every vaccine production facility in the world. Germany, UK, America, France, etc will have their private Pharma industries going full tilt at fulfilling demand after reasonable assurance of safety and effectiveness.

So in my mind, I do not believe that a single entity will have the prestige for developing a COVID-19 vaccination protocol. :)
 
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NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
So in my mind, I do not believe that a single entity will have the prestige for developing a COVID-19 vaccination protocol.
I agree. Research scientists will get some ‘humble-bragging rights’ recognition for their contributions to the whole.
 

Fromista

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015, 2017)
Yours is an interesting post.

International pandemic and national epidemic illnesses, in which vaccine development is possible, tends to be an intense Public-Private partnership. Often times, it is the BLS-4 laboratories, which are, primarily, government facilities that describe and characterize a pathogen's genome for targets for potential vaccine development.

Research is the most time consuming process, and involves huge expenditures of government time and money. Private pharmaceutical companies that do vaccine development all have equal access to that research. Governments will be further involved by funding much of what pharma companies will do in order to bring an effective vaccine protocol online. Government scientists will work with Pharma all through this phase.

So up to this point, no one Pharma corp will be able to really claim that a COVID-19 vaccine is 'their' discovery. In fact, not only is this going on in individual nations that have such capabilities, but it will be considered an international effort.

For instance, the American CDC's BLS-4 research, is being shared with Pastuer in France, and the DZIF in Germany. . among others.

What government needs from private Pharma is its capacity for production. Vaccine production for COVID-19 will involve every vaccine production facility in the world. Germany, UK, America, France, etc will have their private Pharma industries going full tilt at fulfilling demand after reasonable assurance of safety and effectiveness.

So in my mind, I do not believe that a single entity will have the prestige for developing a COVID-19 vaccination protocol. :)
Davebugg, you are completely right in everything you wrote. My point was that vaccinations will be available soon, and I think you agree with that.
I need to apologize, because I mixed two things up. One thing is the VACCINATION (for protect us not to have the virus) the other is the cure, the MEDICINE for the disease, once you already got it. That is the one which I believe will be in private "hands", as the market is highly competitive, and who ever has a medicine, will gain a lot.
For now they are testing on humans who have COVID-19 the existing medicines which are already available in the market to see if they could work as a cure for this disease. We know they won't kill humans, they were tested already, so they try to see if one of the existing medicines might help COVID-19 patients. (Currently medicine against malaria, or HIV, approx, 50-60 medicines are tested according to Boston University scientists). Because it takes so much time to develop a new medicine, and we need cure now. That is what I meant - sorry for the confusion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances('05, '07), Aragonese ('05), del Norte / Primitivo ('09), Via Tolosana (Toulouse '05), Via Podiensis (Le Puy '07), Via Lemovicensis (Troyes '09), VF ('12), Winter Camino ('13/'14) Cammino d'Assisi ('14) Jakobseweg (Leipzig - Paris '15) San Salvador/Norte ('15) Ignaciano ('16) Invierno ('16)
Yours is an interesting post.
For instance, the American CDC's BLS-4 research, is being shared with Pastuer in France, and the DZIF in Germany. . among others.
2nd attempt - I hit post before I had written a reply!! sorry. I don't know how to delete (or if it is possible.

What I intended to add is that for this non intellectual Aussie I have no idea what this means! Nothing I tried made sense with letters like CDC's, BLS-4 & DZIF. In Aust. a C is likely to stand for Commonwealth - but I doubt that is the case in this instance! Yes on this forum abbreviations like CF, VdlP, & VF can be figured out - but your abbreviations had me stumped! It takes me all my time to keep abreast of Australian abbreviations, (for example - things like DFAT - Dept. of Foreign affairs and Trade etc.).
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
Davebugg, you are completely right in everything you wrote. My point was that vaccinations will be available soon, and I think you agree with that.
I need to apologize, because I mixed two things up. One thing is the VACCINATION (for protect us not to have the virus) the other is the cure, the MEDICINE for the disease, once you already got it. That is the one which I believe will be in private "hands", as the market is highly competitive, and who ever has a medicine, will gain a lot.

For now they are testing on humans who have COVID-19 the existing medicines which are already available in the market to see if they could work as a cure for this disease. We know they won't kill humans, they were tested already, so they try to see if one of the existing medicines might help COVID-19 patients. (Currently medicine against malaria, or HIV, approx, 50-60 medicines are tested according to Boston University scientists). Because it takes so much time to develop a new medicine, and we need cure now. That is what I meant - sorry for the confusion.
I appreciate your clarifications.

Perhaps it is helpful to distinguish between a drug that 'cures', versus drugs which are 'treatments'.

Including HIV, I believe that there are no cures for a viral illness. I doubt that there will be a cure developed for COVID-19.

A cure is defined as a drug protocol that is administered after a person is exposed and infected by a virus, but prior to the development of a symptomatic illness. The treatment kills and eliminates the virus before the immune system can become fully involved and effective in its defensive response to deal with the virus.

Treatments. As you posted, there are numerous trials for drugs and drug combinations, some of which will soon be approved as effective treatments for COVID-19.

A treatment can be defined as medications or other protocols that work to decrease the viral response after illness occurs. The drugs assist the immune system to eliminate the virus from the body. This is done by the drug slowing down one or more stages of viral replication. This then allows the immune system time to 'catch up' and get ahead of the viruses ability to replicate. And to kill cells that are infected so that they cannot be used to reproduce new viral particles. That leads to recovery from the disease.

Treatments will also lessen impacts to body systems caused by infection. Lungs, kidneys, hearts and livers, etc. remain healthier and less prone to failure. This is because the viral load in the body is reduced by the treatment, which means fewer targeted body cells can be damaged from the virus.

Out of all the viral diseases that humans can contract, we have only a small handful of vaccines. Vaccines are hard to make. From all that I have been observing and researching, I do not believe a vaccine is close to development for COVID-19.

That said, things are looking promising that a vaccine can be developed. . . it will eventually happen. I do think it will be awhile before development, testing, and production of a vaccine makes its way to the public. It is my belief that long before vaccine development and public vaccination is at high levels in the global community, things like tourism and work and commerce, etc. will be fully open, and that regular day-to-day routines will be restored.

Also, it is important to recognize that the rate of effectiveness for vaccines is never 100%. Depending on the vaccine, the effectiveness lies somewhere in the range of 45 to 85%. Additionally, there is a percentage of the population which will not be able to take the vaccine, based on medical histories and risks of complications.

So between the effectiveness rate of vaccines, and those who can't be immunized, there will always be quite a few people who will not be vaccinated.

So this is where my thoughts are right now. This situation with COVID-19 is very fluid, and developments can pop up at any time. That means that my crystal ball is in a state of dynamic flux :)
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
2nd attempt - I hit post before I had written a reply!! sorry. I don't know how to delete (or if it is possible.

What I intended to add is that for this non intellectual Aussie I have no idea what this means! Nothing I tried made sense with letters like CDC's, BLS-4 & DZIF. In Aust. a C is likely to stand for Commonwealth - but I doubt that is the case in this instance! Yes on this forum abbreviations like CF, VdlP, & VF can be figured out - but your abbreviations had me stumped! It takes me all my time to keep abreast of Australian abbreviations, (for example - things like DFAT - Dept. of Foreign affairs and Trade etc.).
Sorry about using abbreviations and jargon, it is a habit from my public health days.

CDC: America's public health research and guidance efforts are all part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). One agency within the NIH is our Centers For Disease Control or CDC.

Under the CDC, there are several 'institutes', each of which have a specialty function. The CDC Institute that is dealing with COVID-19 is the National Institute for Allergies and Infectious Disease (NIAID). If you are familiar with Dr. Anthony Fauci, he is the Director of NIAID.

BSL-4: Research labs that study and research organic biohazardous materials, like viruses, bacterias, parasites, toxins, etc. have BioSafety Level ratings (BSL).

BSL-1 labs are used to study infectious agents or toxins not known to consistently cause disease in healthy adult humans or animals. Workers follow basic safety procedures, called standard microbial practices, and require no special equipment or design features.

BSL-4 labs are rare. They do exist in a small number of places in America, and around the world. As the highest level of biological safety, a BSL-4 lab consists of work with highly dangerous and exotic microbes. Infections caused by these types of microbes are frequently fatal, and come without treatment or vaccines. Two examples of such microbes include Ebola and Marburg viruses.

Aside from being a top level scientist, it requires exacting and rigorous training and performance in laboratory protocols and safety to be allowed to work within a BSL-4 lab. BSL-4 lab researchers in the US must be able to obtain Top-Secret government clearance, and pass criminal background checks and mental health evaluations.
  • Personnel are required to change clothing before entering, shower upon exiting
  • Decontamination of all materials before exiting
  • Personnel must wear appropriate personal protective equipment from prior BSL levels, as well as a full body, air-supplied, positive pressure suit
  • A Class III biological safety cabinet
A BSL-4 laboratory is extremely isolated—often located in a separate building or in an isolated and restricted zone of the building. The laboratory also features a dedicated supply and exhaust air, as well as vacuum lines and decontamination systems.

DZIF: Deutschen Zentrum für Infektionsforschung = German Center for Infection Research. This is Germany's equivalent of the American Centers for Disease Control.
 

jl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances('05, '07), Aragonese ('05), del Norte / Primitivo ('09), Via Tolosana (Toulouse '05), Via Podiensis (Le Puy '07), Via Lemovicensis (Troyes '09), VF ('12), Winter Camino ('13/'14) Cammino d'Assisi ('14) Jakobseweg (Leipzig - Paris '15) San Salvador/Norte ('15) Ignaciano ('16) Invierno ('16)
Most helpful. - and I will now be able to read these posts with a greater understanding. Thank you.
 

Fromista

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015, 2017)
2nd attempt - I hit post before I had written a reply!! sorry. I don't know how to delete (or if it is possible.

What I intended to add is that for this non intellectual Aussie I have no idea what this means! Nothing I tried made sense with letters like CDC's, BLS-4 & DZIF. In Aust. a C is likely to stand for Commonwealth - but I doubt that is the case in this instance! Yes on this forum abbreviations like CF, VdlP, & VF can be figured out - but your abbreviations had me stumped! It takes me all my time to keep abreast of Australian abbreviations, (for example - things like DFAT - Dept. of Foreign affairs and Trade etc.).
BLS -= Biosafety level
BSL-4 Laboratories in the United States:
There are currently 13 operational or planned BSL-4 facilities within the United States of America.
CDC Lab = Centers for DiseaseControl and Prevention
DZIF - German Center for Infection Research
 

Fromista

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015, 2017)
And listen to davebugg, he knows more about it I am a sociologist I am more interested on the social effects of the epidemic.
 

Fromista

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015, 2017)
I appreciate your clarifications.

Perhaps it is helpful to distinguish between a drug that 'cures', versus drugs which are 'treatments'.

Including HIV, I believe that there are no cures for a viral illness. I doubt that there will be a cure developed for COVID-19.

A cure is defined as a drug protocol that is administered after a person is exposed and infected by a virus, but prior to the development of a symptomatic illness. The treatment kills and eliminates the virus before the immune system can become fully involved and effective in its defensive response to deal with the virus.

Treatments. As you posted, there are numerous trials for drugs and drug combinations, some of which will soon be approved as effective treatments for COVID-19.

A treatment can be defined as medications or other protocols that work to decrease the viral response after illness occurs. The drugs assist the immune system to eliminate the virus from the body. This is done by the drug slowing down one or more stages of viral replication. This then allows the immune system time to 'catch up' and get ahead of the viruses ability to replicate. And to kill cells that are infected so that they cannot be used to reproduce new viral particles. That leads to recovery from the disease.

Treatments will also lessen impacts to body systems caused by infection. Lungs, kidneys, hearts and livers, etc. remain healthier and less prone to failure. This is because the viral load in the body is reduced by the treatment, which means fewer targeted body cells can be damaged from the virus.

Out of all the viral diseases that humans can contract, we have only a small handful of vaccines. Vaccines are hard to make. From all that I have been observing and researching, I do not believe a vaccine is close to development for COVID-19.

That said, things are looking promising that a vaccine can be developed. . . it will eventually happen. I do think it will be awhile before development, testing, and production of a vaccine makes its way to the public. It is my belief that long before vaccine development and public vaccination is at high levels in the global community, things like tourism and work and commerce, etc. will be fully open, and that regular day-to-day routines will be restored.

Also, it is important to recognize that the rate of effectiveness for vaccines is never 100%. Depending on the vaccine, the effectiveness lies somewhere in the range of 45 to 85%. Additionally, there is a percentage of the population which will not be able to take the vaccine, based on medical histories and risks of complications.

So between the effectiveness rate of vaccines, and those who can't be immunized, there will always be quite a few people who will not be vaccinated.

So this is where my thoughts are right now. This situation with COVID-19 is very fluid, and developments can pop up at any time. That means that my crystal ball is in a state of dynamic flux :)
Thank you for this post davebugg. Now that we know you are an expert may I ask something? They can't cure the viral illness in case of HIV on flu either. We already know, that one can not be immune even if he had COVID-19 (we can catch it again). So I am I right thinking that the goal of scientists is actually to reduce the number of people who have it in one time? So the SARS or COVID-19 virus (and the risk to catch it) will be always there from now on, but humans will try to reduce the number of people who have it at one time?
I think it is important to know... even from the point of view of travelling to the Camino or elsewhere.
 

C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016), VDLP (2017), Mozarabe (2018), Vasco/Bayona (2019)
Now that we know you are an expert may I ask something?
This is not the place to ask for or provide expert opinion on medical issues. These posts are straying into areas that might be suitable for a medical forum. While we have many members who are "experts" in various areas, the forum has no mechanism for monitoring and evaluating quality of the information posted. There are differences of opinion even among experts, so it is best to limit our discussions here.

As an example, it is not true that there is expert consensus on the following
We already know, that one can not be immune even if he had COVID-19 (we can catch it again).
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
Thank you for this post davebugg. Now that we know you are an expert may I ask something? They can't cure the viral illness in case of HIV on flu either. We already know, that one can not be immune even if he had COVID-19 (we can catch it again). So I am I right thinking that the goal of scientists is actually to reduce the number of people who have it in one time? So the SARS or COVID-19 virus (and the risk to catch it) will be always there from now on, but humans will try to reduce the number of people who have it at one time?
I think it is important to know... even from the point of view of travelling to the Camino or elsewhere.
I want to explain, from my perspective, why it is impossible to accurately speculate or predict the endgame for COVID-19. As well as why I think the Moderators are correct, given the purpose of this Forum, in limiting discussion about the medical issues of COVID-19.

I'm not an expert. There are some on this forum who are virology and immunology professionals and Doctors.

My education includes a degree in Public Health, and for a couple of decades I worked for a public health district, involved with disease tracking and reporting, infectious disease control, and health provider trainings in bloodborne pathogen and environmental protection.

First. . for any viral illness that humans become ill from, a percentage of those who recover will still be able to get infected again. Any notion by the public that there is always permanent immunity after you suffer a viral illness, or get a shot, is inaccurate.

Measles, chickenpox, influenza, colds, etc. all have percentages of those who will be at risk of becoming infected and ill more than once. While most people will gain a long-term level of protection - even a lifetime protection - due to passive immunity after an illness, there is always a percentage of the population who are at-risk of getting the illness again.

Reasons for this include the fact that some viruses, like those associated with getting a cold (rhinoviruses), number in variety by the hundreds, if not thousands. If you get sick from one Cold (rhinovirus), you can still become ill from a different variety. Symptoms are mostly identical, as is the outcome.

Then there are issues of how quickly a type of virus can mutate. Influenza is an example. Strains of influenza change so much and so quickly that many times they act just like a brand new virus. Past flu shots either do not work against a new mutation or strain, or the active immunization from a past illness or vaccination does not develop into a long term passive immunity.

Roughly speaking, this is the immune system's version of how you do not recognize a friend, because they grow a beard and wear sunglasses.

Looking at this in a different way, what would be be new and unique, is if it is found that there never is a reinfection, or a recurrence of illness, among all of those people who recover after getting COVID-19, whether or not they became ill with symptoms.

We are very much in the dark at this stage, about what the natural history of COVID-19 will be.

It remains unclear whether COVID-19 will be like a 'flu' virus that mutates just enough to require new vaccines every season. Or if it will be like a 'measles' virus where once ill or vaccinated, there is a long-term passive immunity. Or if, like a 'Chicken Pox', there is a risk, after vaccination or illness, of it creating a future syndrome in the way that Chicken pox can cause Shingles. Etc.

Pathogenesis is a term used to describe the process by which viral infection leads to disease. Much of COVID-19 pathogenesis seems clear, and is similar to most other respiratory viruses, - which would be expected due to the fact that these viruses all share similarities.

There is much about a COVID-19 infection and its illness that is unclear. Part of this is due to the actual and unique quality of this virus itself and how the human immune system responds to COVID-19. In some ways - as a new and unknown pathogen - it acts in a similar fashion to a known 'family' of virus. In other ways, it is expressing itself in unique and non-similar ways.

We have only had practical experience with this disease in large populations, in an open and transparent fashion, for about 4 months. Four months!!! Given this time frame, the number of discoveries and information from research on COVID-19, and where we are in the development of treatments and potential vaccines, has been moving at a Warp Factor speed.

It feels like a resolution to COVID-19 is moving like someone stuck in a marsh bog, but I wonder how much of that perception is based on a combination of:
1. An unrealistic expectation of current scientific knowledge and technologies.
2. The Fast Food mentality of the developed world, which expects instant resolutions to most everything, from Big Macs to internet connections.

It is vital that this tragic march of morbidity and mortality from COVID-19 be interrupted. It helps to balance our shared anxieties over COVID-19's damage to the world and people, with realistic expectations of where our true levels of scientific and medical knowledge exist.

The challenge for the scientific infrastructure and research community, is to define all of those unique differences of COVID-19. Challenges, like identifying even one, single portion of the virus that remains stable and consistent, despite multi-generational growth with mutational changes, to allow a vaccine to be developed.

Or identifying all the variations of illness that can occur with COVID-19, at every age range, so that effective and targeted treatments can be identified.

Or what the long term natural history of COVID-19 will be in the environment. . will it be a seasonal disease like our current influenza outbreaks. . . will it burn itself out and 'go away' once the COVID-19 pandemic outbreaks are over. . . will COVID-19 end up, in the future, being a toothless entity as our immune systems adapt to it; present in the world, but incapable of causing further disease outbreaks.

There is much we know, yet so much we do not.

All of the above means that there are, as yet, no concrete answers as to things like vaccines, treatments, and when the risk of new infections from COVID-19 will decrease to the point of opening tourism and travel again.

Everything discussed about COVID-19, as it pertains to treatments, vaccinations and when we can return to the Camino de Santiago, is based on some form of speculation at this time. :)
 
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C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016), VDLP (2017), Mozarabe (2018), Vasco/Bayona (2019)
There is much we know, yet so much we do not.

All of the above means that there are, as yet, no concrete answers as to things like vaccines, treatments, and when the risk of new infections from COVID-19 will decrease to the point of opening tourism and travel again.

Everything discussed about COVID-19, as it pertains to treatments, vaccinations and when we can return to the Camino de Santiago, is based on some form of speculation at this time.
Well said!
 

Fromista

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2015, 2017)
Thank you for your post Davidbugg I am sure we all learned from it a lot.
I am pleased you made it clear that "any viral illness that humans become ill from, a percentage of those who recover will still be able to get infected again". There is a scientific consensus about that.
Understanding more what is happening, analyzing the facts, the possible paths helps us to get closer to the answer "when the Camino again has pilgrims?"
Sadly I have to agree with you, that "as yet, no concrete answers as to things like vaccines, treatments, and when the risk of new infections from COVID-19 will decrease to the point of opening tourism and travel again."

I think it is actually an answer for many, who think, they could start in June, or July.. or September... and that is why it was worth writing all of this down.
 

davebugg

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2017)
Frances(2018)
Ingles(2019)
Aragones(2020)
Portuguese(2020)
Thank you for your post Davidbugg I am sure we all learned from it a lot.
I am pleased you made it clear that "any viral illness that humans become ill from, a percentage of those who recover will still be able to get infected again". There is a scientific consensus about that.
Understanding more what is happening, analyzing the facts, the possible paths helps us to get closer to the answer "when the Camino again has pilgrims?"
Sadly I have to agree with you, that "as yet, no concrete answers as to things like vaccines, treatments, and when the risk of new infections from COVID-19 will decrease to the point of opening tourism and travel again."

I think it is actually an answer for many, who think, they could start in June, or July.. or September... and that is why it was worth writing all of this down.
:) While there are no concrete answers, I have gut-feelings. Let's just say that I'm not cancelling my plans or tickets for a scheduled, late-September Camino Portuguese. Not at this time, anyway.
 

Barbara

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte (twice)and Primitivo, Sureste, In France From home Tours and Vézelay, also Le Puy.
I'm just going when the country opens up again. From my front door. With my new tent which had got as far as Poitiers this morning, where it seems to be having a short holiday.
 
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
I worked for the Caribbean Epidemiology Centre in Trinidad and Tobago for a few years, doing HIV research and epidemiology. Our laboratories also conducted research on treatments and vaccines for many tropical diseases. We were part of the Pan American Health Organization, which is the arm of WHO working mostly in Caribbean and Latin American countries.

Treatment and vaccine research is conducted in many WHO partner countries around the world. As early as late January, the WHO had a viable test for CoVid-19. The US chose not to utilize that test and opted instead to develop their own, through the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC). That test turned out to be defective which, along with a number of other unnecessary federal delays, seriously hindered an early response to the epidemic by the US. South Korea conducted many thousands of tests throughout the month of February, while the US conducted fewer than 100 tests a day available during that month. (update: the governor of the state of Maryland, fed up with federal denial and procrastination, just ordered 500,000 Covid-19 tests directly from South Korea.)

We had no way to track or control the epidemic. Consequently, the US leads the world, by far, in cases and our health system is overloaded.

The US government recently pulled funding from the WHO. I am hoping that, should a vaccine be developed in another WHO partner country, the US will have access to it.

Dave, I worked in infectious disease tracking and epi for the US Public Health system for years too; I forgot we had that in common..
 
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peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
It seems that every time I get a burst of optimism that the world will go back to normal, new reports dash those hopes. Today the Washington Post reports that there is a disturbing incidence of young people with covid dying of massive strokes. They have been diagnosed as having a particularly brutal type of stroke which, before covid, killed people with an average age in their mid-70s.

The take-away for me is that we are still so much in the infancy stages in terms of our understanding of this virus that there is just no way to see through to the other side. I will keep hope alive, but tempered with a huge dose of acceptance of the likelihood that there’s a long road ahead.

 

Martin Cole

Love being a pilgrim walker
Camino(s) past & future
2015-2019 French x3 Portugese x2 Primitivo x1 English x1, Muxia x1 Cancelled 2020!!
My wife and I are / were planning to walk CF for the fourth time this fall - mid Sept to late Oct. Late last year I made private room reservations for every night. About 2/3 of the reservations were made on Booking.com and should still be valid. I can cancel without penalty up to two weeks ahead. The remaining third of reservations I made directly with the private albergues. I plan to wait until June or July to check with them and determine whether to cancel or reconfirm.
So many bookings, have you tried just walking day by day and stopping when tired? Amazing somedays further some shorter, fun. Not judging, each walk own walk, but I like the randomness and comradeship of someone saying you fancy meeting for dinner here so you both stop.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances , Pamplona Burgos august 2018 Burgos to Santiago 19 /04 to 20/05/2019
I like that pace...! Sounds wonderful!

/BP
[/QUOT I take my time on the Camino because I dont need to book a precise date of return.
I stop by anything which catch my eye; a flower a dog a nice landscape ... take photos, lay down on the grass a little bit etcFREEDOM in the little things !!
That’s why I like to walk alone because my behaviour is erratic and could put on the nerves of anyone , I
Think!
The positive side is that I am always in good mood and smiling and I really appreciate company during my tortilla cafe con leche morning break and when I get to the Albergue and meet the other pilgrims!!
 

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