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Where Love.....

TalTi

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
1st timer.
planning for October 2020
On his book "The Pilgrimage", Paulo Coehlo talks about a place he calls
"The place where love was murdered",
where according to Coehlo, Pricilla of Aquitania was murdered by her brother,
who then came back to keep on her work of love.
Is this a real place, or a poetic liscence on Coehlo's part?
According to his book it should be right before arriving to Pamplona.
I can not find anything about it anywhere, and I must admit it flare up my romantic imagination.....
 
Last edited:
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mspath

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Year of past OR future Camino
Frances, autumn/winter; 2004, 2005-2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015
TalTi,

That's a great question .....

To find some Forum posts/threads that might be helpful type Coehlo

in the blue search box at the upper left of the screen. Tap the box and bingo you should see a wealth of posts to scan.

Happy research and Whenever you go, wherever you walk, Buen camino

PS. Check out the refugio of Acacio+Orietta which has an extensive library of works by and about Paulo Coehlo
 
Last edited:
Year of past OR future Camino
2012
I think you, or perhaps Coelho (never one renowned for historical or any other form of accuracy) are referring to Felicia of Aquitaine:

Taken from an article on the Legend of Obanos

This legend tells the story of a girl named Felicia, daughter of the Dukes of Aquitaine. On one occasion she heard a troubadour speak of the tomb of the Apostle St. James and of the pilgrimage that so many people made to reach it.

Felicia was from a very good family, she never lacked anything and lived a noble life. It seems that the only work she did was the typical work of a woman of her social class in the Middle Ages. Felicia read poems, composed songs and sewed for much of the day.

But what she heard from that troubadour aroused her curiosity and she began to plan her trip to start her pilgrimage, even though her father and brother Guillén did not approve of her starting this adventure. Her desire to make the pilgrimage and leave behind a life of luxury and comfort was greater than her family’s opinion.
Ignoring her family’s warnings about the dangers she would encounter along the way, she set off with her entourage in the direction of Compostela. But what she found was not danger, but a road full of misery, poverty and disease.

After arriving in Santiago and visiting the tomb of the apostle, she decided to stay there to help the most needy, which would completely change her way of understanding life and make her appreciate the little things much more. Felicia stayed at the Caserío de Amocaín, in the Egües valley near Pamplona, taking care of the land, animals and other tasks of the farm.

Time passed, and her brother Guillén, seeing that she did not return, decided to go and look for her. Guillén asked from village to village until he found her in that hamlet, where he tried to convince her to return to the castle, to continue with her noble life. He insisted that she should not abandon her future as she would regret it all her life, but in spite of everything he did not manage to convince her.
Guillén, sad and at the same time angry about his sister’s decision, became so enraged that out of control he killed her with a sharp cut to the neck. Realizing what he had done and repenting of his sister’s murder, he set out for Santiago to seek forgiveness for mortal sin.

They moved the lifeless body to the hamlet of Amocain where they buried her in anger and pain. All were left incredulous when after a few days a beautiful flower sprouted from the tomb, and when they opened the coffin they realized that it had sprouted from the mortal wound caused by the sword of her brother, becoming a miraculous and holy event.

The residents of Amocaín made an oak chest for Felicia’s body. They placed it with her body inside the church, but the next day it appeared in the middle of the field. They wanted to raise the chest to put it back in the church but it was impossible. The ark was very heavy, so the priest ordered mules to carry Felicia’s body as far as they would go. But for some reason when the mules were on the spot, the coffin became much lighter and they were able to carry it.

The mules started to walk until they stopped at Labiano, a municipality in the Aranguren valley, next to the church of San Pablo, today known as the church of San Pablo and San Felicia, where the body of the daughter of the Duke of Aquitaine is buried.

Guillén, after returning from Santiago, decided to stay as a hermit in the chapel dedicated to Santa María in Arnotegui, located on the hill near the village of Óbanos. He dedicated his whole life to the pilgrims and to the works of charity, and was also proclaimed a saint by the village after his death.


Edited
 
Last edited:
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David Tallan

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
1989
I think you, or perhaps Coelho (never one renowned for historical or any other form of accuracy) are referring to Felicia of Aquitaine:

Taken from an article on the Legend of Obanos

This legend tells the story of a girl named Felicia, daughter of the Dukes of Aquitaine. On one occasion she heard a troubadour speak of the tomb of the Apostle St. James and of the pilgrimage that so many people made to reach it.

Felicia was from a very good family, she never lacked anything and lived a noble life. It seems that the only work she did was the typical work of a woman of her social class in the Middle Ages. Felicia read poems, composed songs and sewed for much of the day.

But what she heard from that troubadour aroused her curiosity and she began to plan her trip to start her pilgrimage, even though her father and brother Guillén did not approve of her starting this adventure. Her desire to make the pilgrimage and leave behind a life of luxury and comfort was greater than her family’s opinion.
Ignoring her family’s warnings about the dangers she would encounter along the way, she set off with her entourage in the direction of Compostela. But what she found was not danger, but a road full of misery, poverty and disease.

After arriving in Santiago and visiting the tomb of the apostle, she decided to stay there to help the most needy, which would completely change her way of understanding life and make her appreciate the little things much more. Felicia stayed at the Caserío de Amocaín, in the Egües valley near Pamplona, taking care of the land, animals and other tasks of the farm.

Time passed, and her brother Guillén, seeing that she did not return, decided to go and look for her. Guillén asked from village to village until he found her in that hamlet, where he tried to convince her to return to the castle, to continue with her noble life. He insisted that she should not abandon her future as she would regret it all her life, but in spite of everything he did not manage to convince her.
Guillén, sad and at the same time angry about his sister’s decision, became so enraged that out of control he killed her with a sharp cut to the neck. Realizing what he had done and repenting of his sister’s murder, he set out for Santiago to seek forgiveness for mortal sin.

They moved the lifeless body to the hamlet of Amocain where they buried her in anger and pain. All were left incredulous when after a few days a beautiful flower sprouted from the tomb, and when they opened the coffin they realized that it had sprouted from the mortal wound caused by the sword of her brother, becoming a miraculous and holy event.

The residents of Amocaín made an oak chest for Felicia’s body. They placed it with her body inside the church, but the next day it appeared in the middle of the field. They wanted to raise the chest to put it back in the church but it was impossible. The ark was very heavy, so the priest ordered mules to carry Felicia’s body as far as they would go. But for some reason when the mules were on the spot, the coffin became much lighter and they were able to carry it.

The mules started to walk until they stopped at Labiano, a municipality in the Aranguren valley, next to the church of San Pablo, today known as the church of San Pablo and San Felicia, where the body of the daughter of the Duke of Aquitaine is buried.

Guillén, after returning from Santiago, decided to stay as a hermit in the chapel dedicated to Santa María in Arnotegui, located on the hill near the village of Óbanos. He dedicated his whole life to the pilgrims and to the works of charity, and was also proclaimed a saint by the village after his death.


Edited
This story is also shared in Gitlitz and Davidson's excellent The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: the Complete Cultural Handbook, where they write:

Obanos is famous for its mystery play dedicated to Saints Guillermo and Felicia, written by Canónigo Don Santos Beguiristáin and performed since 1965 on the Sunday following Corpus Christi.

Guillermo, a duke in Aquitaine, made a pilgrimage to Compostela with his sister Felicia. As they were returning, Felicia declared her desire to become a hermit in Amocain (near Elía, in northern Navarra,). Guillermo, angered that she would not return to the French court, tried to take her from the hermitage by force. Raging at her rejection, he killed her. Instantly contrite, he returned to Compostela to pray, and on his second journey homeward he decided to remain in Obanos, where he wept for his sister until his death. He was buried in the Ermita de Nuestra Señora de Arnótegui, located south of Obanos.

Obanos is shortly before Puente la Reina.
 
Last edited:

Connie Ramage

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances 2015/2018/2020
TalTi,

That's a great question .....

To find some Forum posts/threads that might be helpful type Coehlo

in the blue search box at the upper left of the screen. Tap the box and bingo you should see a wealth of posts to scan.

Happy research and Whenever you go, wherever you walk, Buen camino

PS. Check out the refugio of Acacio+Orietta which has an extensive library of works by and about Paulo Coehlo
I stayed with them in Sept 2018. Very comfortable and welcoming! If I remember right, she is Paulo's goddaughter.
 

Faye Walker

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
CF 2014, CF 2018, CP 2019 from Coimbra
Ah... the religion of my people [by which I mean not the liturgical but the folk aspects of story-telling and legend]... in which a murderer (of his own family, no less!) can rise to sainthood. I shall be forever confused by some of these stories... much as I want to believe in forgiveness and its restorative powers... the fully modern me sits in wonder that other moderns can find the murder of a sister by a brother can be "romantic".... what's the word I'm seeking here... it's.... oh what is it? Oh!

Patriarchy.

But there's also my pragmatic inability to believe that the facts are that the family was outraged by Felicia's religious calling. That was quite ordinary... and a reasonably respected and expected course of things (especially in larger families). I suspect that the brother killed her for other suspected transgressions that could have besmirched the family name were they believed. And somewhere along the way, the killing became a story of church and faith vs. power and greed.

No idea what I would do with these thoughts as theology and medieval life are not my area.
 
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Ah... the religion of my people
Ach. Try one where the new King is slaughtered every year to ensure the Turning of the Wheel. Oh, hang on, that sounds a bit familiar ;)

The road to redemption needs a few kerb-side sins or it heads no-where. I know legend is a flexible mirror but you'll be troubled to find an history of Felicia of Aquitaine. Felicia de Roucy, Queen Consort of Aragon & Navarre is a bit easier to find. Though she seems to have led a blameless life - married a King and given birth to enough sons to cause the usual successional punch-ups.
 
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TalTi

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
1st timer.
planning for October 2020
I think you, or perhaps Coelho (never one renowned for historical or any other form of accuracy) are referring to Felicia of Aquitaine:

Taken from an article on the Legend of Obanos

This legend tells the story of a girl named Felicia, daughter of the Dukes of Aquitaine. On one occasion she heard a troubadour speak of the tomb of the Apostle St. James and of the pilgrimage that so many people made to reach it.

Felicia was from a very good family, she never lacked anything and lived a noble life. It seems that the only work she did was the typical work of a woman of her social class in the Middle Ages. Felicia read poems, composed songs and sewed for much of the day.

But what she heard from that troubadour aroused her curiosity and she began to plan her trip to start her pilgrimage, even though her father and brother Guillén did not approve of her starting this adventure. Her desire to make the pilgrimage and leave behind a life of luxury and comfort was greater than her family’s opinion.
Ignoring her family’s warnings about the dangers she would encounter along the way, she set off with her entourage in the direction of Compostela. But what she found was not danger, but a road full of misery, poverty and disease.

After arriving in Santiago and visiting the tomb of the apostle, she decided to stay there to help the most needy, which would completely change her way of understanding life and make her appreciate the little things much more. Felicia stayed at the Caserío de Amocaín, in the Egües valley near Pamplona, taking care of the land, animals and other tasks of the farm.

Time passed, and her brother Guillén, seeing that she did not return, decided to go and look for her. Guillén asked from village to village until he found her in that hamlet, where he tried to convince her to return to the castle, to continue with her noble life. He insisted that she should not abandon her future as she would regret it all her life, but in spite of everything he did not manage to convince her.
Guillén, sad and at the same time angry about his sister’s decision, became so enraged that out of control he killed her with a sharp cut to the neck. Realizing what he had done and repenting of his sister’s murder, he set out for Santiago to seek forgiveness for mortal sin.

They moved the lifeless body to the hamlet of Amocain where they buried her in anger and pain. All were left incredulous when after a few days a beautiful flower sprouted from the tomb, and when they opened the coffin they realized that it had sprouted from the mortal wound caused by the sword of her brother, becoming a miraculous and holy event.

The residents of Amocaín made an oak chest for Felicia’s body. They placed it with her body inside the church, but the next day it appeared in the middle of the field. They wanted to raise the chest to put it back in the church but it was impossible. The ark was very heavy, so the priest ordered mules to carry Felicia’s body as far as they would go. But for some reason when the mules were on the spot, the coffin became much lighter and they were able to carry it.

The mules started to walk until they stopped at Labiano, a municipality in the Aranguren valley, next to the church of San Pablo, today known as the church of San Pablo and San Felicia, where the body of the daughter of the Duke of Aquitaine is buried.

Guillén, after returning from Santiago, decided to stay as a hermit in the chapel dedicated to Santa María in Arnotegui, located on the hill near the village of Óbanos. He dedicated his whole life to the pilgrims and to the works of charity, and was also proclaimed a saint by the village after his death.


Edited
Thank you! You are a wonderful story teller.
I was not sure about the spelling..... sorry - so went for what sounds fonetic spelling to me, and I am happy you understood what I meant, anyway.
I was wondering how much history there is in his book - but the truth is that History was not his goal for writing the book. I think. That is why I asked.
Thank you for this elaborate answer.
I realy appreciate it very much.
💜
 

TalTi

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
1st timer.
planning for October 2020
This story is also shared om Gitlitz and Davidson's excellent The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: the Complete Cultural Handbook, where they write:



Obanos is shortly before Puente la Reina.
Thank you. 🙏
 

TalTi

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
1st timer.
planning for October 2020
Ah... the religion of my people [by which I mean not the liturgical but the folk aspects of story-telling and legend]... in which a murderer (of his own family, no less!) can rise to sainthood. I shall be forever confused by some of these stories... much as I want to believe in forgiveness and its restorative powers... the fully modern me sits in wonder that other moderns can find the murder of a sister by a brother can be "romantic".... what's the word I'm seeking here... it's.... oh what is it? Oh!

Patriarchy.

But there's also my pragmatic inability to believe that the facts are that the family was outraged by Felicia's religious calling. That was quite ordinary... and a reasonably respected and expected course of things (especially in larger families). I suspect that the brother killed her for other suspected transgressions that could have besmirched the family name were they believed. And somewhere along the way, the killing became a story of church and faith vs. power and greed.

No idea what I would do with these thoughts as theology and medieval life are not my area.
Actually..... yeah.... I can see your point.
and also this one: ....

Ach. Try one where the new King is slaughtered every year to ensure the Turning of the Wheel. Oh, hang on, that sounds a bit familiar ;)
 

TalTi

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
1st timer.
planning for October 2020
TalTi,

That's a great question .....

To find some Forum posts/threads that might be helpful type Coehlo

in the blue search box at the upper left of the screen. Tap the box and bingo you should see a wealth of posts to scan.

Happy research and Whenever you go, wherever you walk, Buen camino

PS. Check out the refugio of Acacio+Orietta which has an extensive library of works by and about Paulo Coehlo
Thank you! 🙏
I tried the link you shared....
but can not read it,
did not see an English option.......
Can not yetunderstand Portuguese.
Thank you so much. 💜
 

mspath

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances, autumn/winter; 2004, 2005-2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015
Thank you! 🙏
I tried the link you shared....
but can not read it,
did not see an English option.......
Can not yetunderstand Portuguese.
Thank you so much. 💜
See the next post for info re their refugio
 
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mspath

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Frances, autumn/winter; 2004, 2005-2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015
Below iis a translation via Google of the page

Private refuge for pilgrims in Viloria de Rioja

Municipality: Viloria de la Rioja (Burgos)

Description: Viloria is 16 km after Santo Domingo de la Calzada

An old house of about 200 years that Orietta and Acacio gradually transformed into a pilgrim home and where pilgrims – on foot or by bicycle – live together and share their pursuits and concerns about the Camino de Santiago, and their lives.

“We don't make any differences and neither do we require credentials, or miles covered. Over the years, we believe that each one has their own path and why, just stop and listen to the story that brings thousands of pilgrims to this sacred path. We are open to receive everyone who chooses to be here even to get out of the “stress of the Path” created in the previous days. They say that the Way after Viloria becomes another, a new beginning… We just do our best to welcome people on their pilgrimage.”

As in a fairy tale Viloria de Rioja is a place on the Camino de Santiago where there is a place for rest, pilgrim welcome and for a moment of pause and reflection on the Way.

book now

We will confirm the reservation by email.

REQUEST RESERVATION

You can also make the reservation through Booking



 
Last edited:

trecile

Camino Addict
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Does anyone know if Orujo is masculine or feminine in Spanish.
Orujo is masculine. As to orujo or caña -
According to Spanish Wikipedia
En Galicia el orujo se conoce como “augardente” o “caña”. En realidad "augardente" es una palabra muy genérica, que puede aplicarse a aguardientes distintos del orujo.

English translation
In Galicia, the orujo is known as “augardente” or “cane”. In reality "augardente" is a very generic word, which can be applied to spirits other than orujo.

More on English Wikipedia
 

Pelegrin

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
2019
Orujo is masculine. As to orujo or caña -
According to Spanish Wikipedia
En Galicia el orujo se conoce como “augardente” o “caña”. En realidad "augardente" es una palabra muy genérica, que puede aplicarse a aguardientes distintos del orujo.

English translation
In Galicia, the orujo is known as “augardente” or “cane”. In reality "augardente" is a very generic word, which can be applied to spirits other than orujo.

More on English Wikipedia
Ok. Augardente is masculine "O Augardente". But it is "a caña" feminine.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Year of past OR future Camino
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Ok. Augardente is masculine "O Augardente". But it is "a caña" feminine.
Right. So whether or not it's masculine or feminine depends on the region, and whether they call it orujo, augardente, or caña. 😊
 

TalTi

New Member
Year of past OR future Camino
1st timer.
planning for October 2020
Below iis a translation via Google of the page

Private refuge for pilgrims in Viloria de Rioja

Municipality: Viloria de la Rioja (Burgos)

Description: Viloria is 16 km after Santo Domingo de la Calzada

An old house of about 200 years that Orietta and Acacio gradually transformed into a pilgrim home and where pilgrims – on foot or by bicycle – live together and share their pursuits and concerns about the Camino de Santiago, and their lives.

“We don't make any differences and neither do we require credentials, or miles covered. Over the years, we believe that each one has their own path and why, just stop and listen to the story that brings thousands of pilgrims to this sacred path. We are open to receive everyone who chooses to be here even to get out of the “stress of the Path” created in the previous days. They say that the Way after Viloria becomes another, a new beginning… We just do our best to welcome people on their pilgrimage.”

As in a fairy tale Viloria de Rioja is a place on the Camino de Santiago where there is a place for rest, pilgrim welcome and for a moment of pause and reflection on the Way.

book now

We will confirm the reservation by email.

REQUEST RESERVATION

You can also make the reservation through Booking



Thank you,
That is wonderful!
I appreciate you doing this for me. 💜
 
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NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Year of past OR future Camino
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
Another source: http://www.galiciaguide.com/Stage-4-2.html

This one says she actually returned home, but as the pilgrimage had changed her worldview (sound familiar?), she decided to return to the Way and serve.

In that era, daughters of nobility were raised to be marriage fodder - tools for their papa’s and brother’s negations with rivals and neighbours. It seems likely that she decided she wasn’t going to be married off to some warlord and chose a new life. THAT is why brother went looking for her.
 

malingerer

samarkand
Year of past OR future Camino
cf (2), de la plata, cp. (2003 -2018)
Done, I think ;)

Does anyone know if Orujo is masculine or feminine in Spanish. Only I could do with it.
After
you drink it, who cares:)

Happy tippling, and don't forget the chocolate!

Buen Camino

Samarkand
 

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