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Where to lighten the load?

Discussion in 'Equipment Questions' started by mega, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. mega

    mega New Member

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    Hey,


    I have just begun my training with a laden pack. I will be walking the Camino Frances starting on the 15th of September and hopefully finishing on the 25 October in Santiago. I have just weight my pack, without water or food I am up to 8kgs. I weight 65kg (on a good day, when I have been eating right). Everything I have read on the forum tells me that this is bad, but I am struggling to see where I can lighten the load by much. At this point, everything I plan to take seems really necessary!


    I am hesitant to ask for advice given a thread I read a few weeks ago where it seemed that people were getting a be peeved with newbie questions, but I don’t hike and nor do any of my friends so I am trying all options.


    This is the packing list I have so far


    Aarn natural exhilaration pack with photo balance pockets 1994g

    Gobi Gear hobo roll 100g

    Light cloth carry bag 88g

    Sea to Summit 40 lt bag 79g

    Sea to summit sleeping bag 432g

    Silk liner 84g

    Icebreaker singlet (sleeping) 76g

    Icebreaker boxers (sleeping) 69g

    Sea to summit poncho 156g

    Outdoor research helium jacket 164g

    Outdoor research helium pants 150g

    Walking tights 187g

    Icebreaker short sleeved t-shirts 99g

    Icebreaker long sleeved t-shirt 138g

    Icebreaker shorts 118g

    Icebreaker undies (2) 77g

    Icebreaker hiking socks (2) 149g

    Bra 106g

    Bikini Top 97g

    Mountain hardware down jacket 188g

    La Sportiva Helios runners (spare shoes) 490g

    Flip flops (shower) 171g

    Gloves 20g

    Wooley hat 46g

    Sun hat 42g

    Buff 38g

    Toiletries 637g

    Medicines and first aid 542g

    500ml flask 345g

    Instant coffee 100g

    Pocket knife in holder 101g

    Headlight 26g

    4 port USB wall charger (with euro socket) 90g

    Apple lighting cord 20g

    Apple ear buds 47g

    Apple watch charging cord 32g

    USB cord 10g

    Spare battery 137g

    Camera with second lens 534g

    Camera charger and spare battery 58g

    SD card to lighting adaptor 18g

    Spare SD card 2g


    And unweighted as yet


    Sun glasses

    Normal glasses

    iPhone

    wallet

    passport


    All this along with the clothes on my back and the runners I plan to wear on the walk


    Icebreaker t-shirt (short sleeved)

    Icebreaker t-shirt (long sleeved)

    Zip off pants

    Socks bra and undies

    Altra lone peak runners.


    I know at a pinch the camera gear will have to go. But besides that, I have no idea where else to cull. The flask and coffee as for the safety of all the other people I will be walking with. If I can’t get a coffee first thing, I really don’t behave well.


    If anybody has any thoughts or inspiration HELP!


    PS: I know it sounds like I am a walking advert for Icebreaker, and in fact I am. Since moving to NZ 18 years ago I live in the stuff. I think it’s the only thing that has kept me warm and stopped me from leaving my husband and running back home to Australia.
     
  2. Icacos

    Icacos Veteran Member

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    Hi there, I will leave it to more experienced pilgrims to pick apart your list, but I can tell you that there is an awful lot of stuff there that you don't need. :)
    Buen Camino.
     
  3. Kitsambler

    Kitsambler Jakobsweg Junkie

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    mega likes this.
  4. Here goes:

    Aarn natural exhilaration pack with photo balance pockets 1994g - way too heavy. You could cut 1kg out right there by using an Osprey Tempest 40 l.. or something similar.

    Gobi Gear hobo roll 100g - not needed

    Light cloth carry bag 88g - ok

    Sea to Summit 40 lt bag 79g - what is this?

    Icebreaker singlet (sleeping) 76g - tomorrow's tee will do

    Icebreaker boxers (sleeping) 69g -if you are bringing leggings/shorts, these can do double duty.

    Walking tights 187g - 2 bottoms in total, trousers, leggings or shorts.

    Icebreaker shorts 118g - see note above

    Icebreaker hiking socks (2) 149g - add a pair in case of rain, stepping in water, etc.

    Bikini Top 97g -leave

    Mountain hardware down jacket 188g - you already have the helium one. Pick one.

    La Sportiva Helios runners (spare shoes) 490g - not needed, 1 pair for walking is all you need.

    Flip flops (shower) 171g - this is heavy.

    Gloves 20g - leave

    Wooley hat 46g-leave

    Buff 38g -leave

    Toiletries 637g - may want to edit that. What do you need that weighs thos much?

    Medicines and first aid 542g - may want to edit this as well

    500ml flask 345g - just keep the first water bottle you buy when you get to Spain.

    Instant coffee 100g - leave. spain has gorgeous real coffee, or just as bad one as instant you want to bring as part of albergue breakfast.

    Pocket knife in holder 101g -leave, there is nothing to cut that can't be bought cut or can't just be bitten into

    Spare battery 137g - for what?

    Icebreaker t-shirt (long sleeved) - 2 short sleeve and 2 long sleeve? 1 long sleeve only.


    I know at a pinch the camera gear will have to go. -if photography is an important hobby for you, I won't suggest you go without.
     
    Grace3808, David, joecamino and 2 others like this.
  5. markmcilroy

    markmcilroy Member Donating Member

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    Hi there Mega Aussie, (almost fellow Kiwi)....I did the CF last year left SJPDP late August and off again to do it this year leaving SJPDP around 10th September.

    My thoughts

    1. Toiletries 637 grms...this seems HEAVY for a pilgrim.
    2. Medicines and first aid...seems HEAVY too. There are pharmacies in almost every town large and small. I would take the brand of adhesive tape from NZ for blisters like Nexcare paper tape and some betadine ointment from here.
    3. Sleeping bag? questionable....I took one but never took it out of its bag, a silk liner was ok for me. on cooler nights if there are any just sleep in your icebreaker gear. I won't be taking one this year.
    4. Down jacket?...leave this at home. The coolest morning was around 6 C, I had 4 merinos layers and a light rain parker, and socks on the hands.
    5. Hobo roll?..I took one but never used it once.
    6. Don't need a woolly hat, if its cold use the sunhat and buff.
    7. coffee, we need this but can I suggest that you buy one each morning as you leave....yes the coffee is not like Kiwi coffee but carrying a flask weighing 345gms....I'd ditch this.
    8. spare battery?...is this for your phone or what? I also took one but never used it once. I did make sure that my phone battery was able to take plenty of charge. There is an app to check the "wear level" of your battery its called "Battery Life". This shows that a brand new battery can take 100% of a charge where as a battery that is say a year old may only be able to take 80%. There are power points in almost every albergue.

    I hope this helps....Buen Camino.
     
  6. FLEUR

    FLEUR Active Member

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    Just walked admittedly only a short 3 day trek on the de Voie de Tours.
    Silk sleeping bag liner.
    One change of zip off style trousers.
    2 x T shirts short sleeves
    2 x bra
    3 x under pants
    T shirt style night dress
    1 thin fleece
    1 waterproof lightweight jacket
    Merrell hiking trainers
    1 pair lightweight sneakers (alternative to Merrells in the heat )
    Flip flops
    Socks x 3
    1 x microfiber towel
    Small bag toiletries
    " " "Medical / First aid gear
    Waist belt, torch, phone and charger
    Sun hat.
    Buff
    Not much else!

    Doing this trek was an impulse decision. Most of my usual gear at home in UK, me on holiday in France. Fortunately I had my old rucksack but had to buy extra socks, sleeping bag liner, torch and towel.


    I had 3.5kg plus water and a few other items, maybe 5kg max. By washing / rinsing clothes each evening I managed.
    3 nights away, 3 days walking average 20km per day.


    Amazing how little one really needs
     
    OzAnnie, mega and markmcilroy like this.
  7. onwayhome

    onwayhome Active Member

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    Hi Mega
    Some good suggestions. I'd second the change pack idea- give yourself time to find one that's really comfortable- and a kilo lighter!

    I completely understand the camera gear, I was a working photographer at one time and still enjoy taking pictures. But...... It's extra weight and palaver with lenses, batteries etc. I've replaced it all with a phone camera. It has its limitations but quality is good enough for fair sized prints and emailing or whatsapp-ing pics to friends is easy. Or if that's going too far maybe a compact with a good zoom is worth looking at?


    Wishing you a lighter pack and great Camino.
     
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  8. SYates

    SYates Camino Fossil AD 1999 Donating Member

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    Hi @mega

    Lots of weight saving potential here ;-) My comments in italics after some items:

    Aarn natural exhilaration pack with photo balance pockets 1994g - As others have already mentioned, that pack is on the heavy side, BUT it really depends if you find a lighter one that fits you as well as the one you have and is as comfortable. There is a difference in the actual weight you carry and how it feels day after day on your back. So, 5kg in a backpack that is uncomfortable carry very differently to 5kg in a comfortable backpack. Long story short, if you can find a backpack that fits you equally well, or better, and is lighter - Great! if not, keep the one you have.

    Gobi Gear hobo roll 100g - Leave at home.

    Silk liner 84g - Leave at home as you have a sleeping bag.

    Icebreaker singlet (sleeping) 76g / Icebreaker boxers (sleeping) 69g - Leave at home and sleep in the clothes you plan to wear the next day. No need for extra sleep wear.

    Outdoor research helium jacket 164g - Leave at home, you have a poncho and a down jacket

    Walking tights 187g - Leave at home.

    Icebreaker t-shirts - I am a bit confused about your total number of t-shirts, I would take two short and one long sleeve one in total.

    Icebreaker shorts 118g - Leave at home, just take two zip off pants, perhaps even with the legs removed on one.

    Icebreaker undies - confused as above, I would take max. three in total

    Icebreaker hiking socks (2) 149g - confused as above, I would take max. three in total

    Bra 106g - two in total

    Bikini Top 97g - Leave at home

    Flip flops (shower) 171g - Leave at home

    Wooley hat 46g - Leave at home, buff and sun hat combined will replace it.

    Toiletries 637g - Far too heavy, can you specify what is included?

    Medicines and first aid 542g - - Far too heavy, can you specify what is included?

    500ml flask 345g - Far too heavy and not enough volume, buy a PET bottle or two on arrival

    Instant coffee 100g - Just take 3-4 sachets for emergencies, easily available on the Camino.

    Headlight 26g - I never take one

    Your iphone can replace the camera (sufficient unless you are a really dedicated photographer that wants to make large prints after the Camino, for web use, iPhone pics are sufficient).


    Apple ear buds 47g - Leave at home.

    Hope that helps and Buen Camino, SY
     
  9. mega

    mega New Member

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    Thanks for the advise. The sea to summit bag is for trf my pack on the plane. I will have to check it as it is just a wee bit to long for carry on. The light cloth carry bag is to cart around in the evenings and for the grocery shopping. I have had a bit of a blond moment with the toiletries / medicines and first aid. Seem to have added the wrong figures together, but i know it is still way to much. Trying to let go and trust, BUT, I worked as a first aider for 6 years in a pool complex and it just goes against the grain not to be a good scout and always be prepared! I will head back to the drawing board and the scales for another go. Thanks again
     
  10. mega

    mega New Member

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  11. mega

    mega New Member

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    Opps hit post before I wrote anything. Thanks for the advise. I really love the way my aarn pack feels when wearing it. When it come down to it I can change the balance pockets for smaller lighter ones. They don't have the same amount of compartments, but if I get the contents pared down, then I might not need the larger ones. Could be a saving of around 300 / 400 grams. Sounds like it might be an idea to leave my PJ's at home. I realised that I did add an extra s on the t-shirts. I had planed to take 2 t-shirts and 2 long sleeved t-shirts. 3 pairs of undies and socks.

    Had a bit of a blond moment with the toiletries, medicines and first aid kit. I think I added the wrong figures together. But I know that I have planed to take far to much. Somehow or another the bare minimum I think I need seems to be far to much. All I really have it my toothpaste, toothbrush, shampoo, soap, deodorant, sunblock and lip balm.

    Medicines and first aid. HRT, anti fungal, betadine, panadol, antihistamine, magnesium and bug spray. First aid kit is way to much, trying to trust here. What I planed on was a survival blanket, cohesive bandage, sports tape, wound cleansing wipes, composed, moleskin strips, bandaids, cutifilm, stern-strips, microporous tape. As I list all of this I am thinking thats a lot. As I stated above i worked for 6 years as a first aider!

    Thanks again. putting the thinking cap back on.
     
  12. mega

    mega New Member

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    Thanks. Its good to know that someone from here can compare the weather and give some idea of what I need. I am paranoid about being cold. Trying to tell myself that it is Autumn in spain, not winter in Sweden!
     
  13. Irish Bernie

    Irish Bernie Active Member

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    You bring all that and the bus drivers and cab owners are going to love you,some excellent advice above.
     
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  14. timr

    timr Active Member Donating Member

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    @mega Welcome. Don't worry about asking for help with packing. For each one who gets annoyed at being asked, there is another one who loves to advise, (and gives good advice):):p
    Lots of useful advice from others, which I won't complicate or duplicate. I am a bit unscientific myself, but if in any doubt, don't bring it!
    I have brought a smallish camera and couple of lenses lately, and wear it around my neck, and I don't add it in to my total!!! (I know this doesn't really work in terms of adding up the weight).
    And I am with you on the cover for the rucksack. I *always* check my rucksack and walking poles into the hold. And (touch wood) have never had a problem. And I find the cover very useful for this, and feel it earns its place.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
  15. Finisterre

    Finisterre Active Member

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    No plans to return, yet.
    I love these preparation threads. And putting everything together- its half the fun. Most of your stuff is completely unnecessary. Don't forget that Spain is a first world country. It has shops.

    I would change the sack for a lighter version (my 35L is 650g) and take

    wallet passport phrasebook
    walking poles
    glasses
    silk liner
    sun screen
    soap
    travel towel
    spork

    training shoes or boots season dependent.
    sun hat (probably rainproofed)
    stretchy running tights (2 and a 1/2)
    merino short sleeve shirt
    polyester sunny weather shirt
    underwear and 3 pairs of hiking socks
    buffalo jacket (their new fell jacket looks good)

    A small bag of bits n bobs, ibuprofen, micropore, razor, emergency toilet paper, thin string, red led flasher for night walking. etc. (lipstick if you are a girl I guess)

    I understand that a lot of people love their phones so you could take one.

    I generally get my load below 3Kg plus water, oranges, and cheesy baguettes. The phrase book is the daftest waste of weight but I always take it. I imagine I will read it as I go but I never do,
     
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  16. Mid -September to mid-October will still be HOT.
     
  17. Tia Valeria

    Tia Valeria Veteran Member Donating Member

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    I too weigh 65kg and my comfort zone for my pack is 6.5kg. I manage that including 1lt of water and a little fod, but don't carry a sleeping bag or liner. Having walked with my husband he happily carried my sleeping bag giving him a pack of 8kg although he weighs less than I do.

    Try thinking in terms of clothes being worn and one complete change in the pack. For example:-
    Short sleeve t-shirt for a vest and at night and long sleeve t-shirt for if it does tun cold at night. Undies and socks, 1 pair on and 2 pairs spare. Medication, only what is prescription and the bare minimum of other things as they can easily be replaced if used. Camera, mine is a compact and takes ordinary batteries so I start of with a spare set and replace as son as needed in supermarkets. That saves the phone battery, just in case it is needed for an emergency. Travel towel and toiletries are all 'travel' size...... and a few rust-proof safety pins are useful for attaching clothes to washing lines or your pack. Waterproof/jacket.
    It is a very different mind-set to packing for any other journey........

    Comfort of the pack is more important than its weight as has already been said.
    Buen Camino
     
    mega and timr like this.
  18. wcsjms

    wcsjms Active Member Donating Member Donating Member

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    Keep the wooly, towards the end of October and int0 November there were many mornings we used ours. Having said that here is what we found out. Last Sept-November 2016 Camino Frances trek, our packs weighed anywhere from 14kg (wife) to 18kg.(me). We had 65L packs. This year we have 38L (wife) and 48L (me) Osprey Kestrel backpacks. Fully loaded, NEITHER backpack weighs more than 8-9 kgs. including the weight of the pack. Pretty amazing huh? We found out you do not need to pack for every contingency because so many things can double up in use and others you just don't need.

    Buen Camino:)
     
  19. trecile

    trecile Veteran Member Donating Member

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    You also don't need to pack for every contingency because there are stores in Spain. :p:D:p
     
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  20. Tia Valeria

    Tia Valeria Veteran Member Donating Member

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    Yes, walking in May my longjohns and vest (combined weight 140gms) could be worn in the evening under my trousers and doubled up as pyjamas. The longjohns also came in as tights under my dress when it did warm up a bit. :)
    Where ever possible I see if an item can do 2 jobs and not just one.
     
  21. spursfan

    spursfan Veteran Member Donating Member

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    You've already received lots of good advice so I'll just make a couple of my own points

    Rank all the items with the heaviest first - then start dropping items from the top of the list

    One of the points of the Camino is to change - for example, leave the flask at home and see if you can survive without your coffee fix
     
  22. Antonius Vaessen

    Antonius Vaessen Active Member Donating Member

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    I certainly don't want to disqualify all the good advices you've been given. I find all of them sound and doable. Perhaps one of the nice aspects of walking the Camino is discovering how little ( stuff) you really need to live (in general and walking the Camino.
    But still I have the feeling that the importance that's been given to rules/norms relating to the weight of a backpack is somewhat exagerated. It is not as if succeedin in walking the camino really depends on the question if you carry 6, 8 or 10 kilo. The 10% rule is not very valid in my eyes; it would imply that if you would gain 10 kilo bodyweight, you could carry 1 kilo more on your back. I certainly would not advise you to do that. Age, general fitness, experience and so on are also very important.
     
  23. While there is no doubt that the 10% rules makes no sense at all, as fitness and bodyweight composition all play a role here, what is true is that lighter is better, and that it all quickly adds up.

    Also that there really is little reason why for a non winter Camino one would need more than 6-10kg, and that is also to accomodate larger size clothing for the larger walkers.

    If you can remedy that at home rather than on a trail, it will make for a much happier Camino.

    Chop that list down! ;)
     
    Catherine B and mega like this.
  24. poogeyejr

    poogeyejr Active Member

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    Now for the otherside of the coin . . .

    Think about the camera - if you are a photographer and love taking photos - in Spain every moment of every day is a photo opportunity for you. If you use it regularly you will not mind the weight. The only issue is where to carry it - if it is inconvenient to reach it may stop you from taking photos.

    Similarly to Timr, the people who I met, that enjoyed their cameras the most have been the ones who wear them.

    There are a couple of really good camera/no camera threads on this forum, also some threads about how to take your camera . . .

    Buen Camino
     
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  25. mega

    mega New Member

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    I did try and run the weight argument past one of my friends who is a personal trainer. She didn't agree. There goes my plans for a winter spent eating KFC and pizza. Looks like I will just have to lighten the load rather than eat more
     
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  26. mega

    mega New Member

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    Thanks. I love photography and really don't want to have to use the phone if I can help it. Last year for a trip to Peru I invested in the lightest micro 4/3 camera I could fine. It's the size and weight of a small compact and takes great photos, with the added benefit of interchangeable lens. Trying to justify the weight here. I will happily ditch the PJ's and coffeee to keep the camera
     
  27. alaskadiver

    alaskadiver Active Member

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    Won't be returning in 2018 going on a dive trip instead.
    You don't need all that first aid stuff. Take a few bandaids in case you cut your finger or something, 1 self adhesive gauze pad in the unlikely event you fall and cut your knee. A small amount of NSAIDs in case you suffer from aches and pains. Anti-diarrhea meds you only need 1 blister pack since you only take 2 or 3 max if it happens. You can always buy more. Spanish pharmacies sell everything you need and they are everywhere. Even on the remote Primitivo route that we just did, there was at least one pharmacy in every village we stopped at every night. I even got cold packs for my feet. Buy stuff only when you need it, if you need it.
    Spain is very hot, especially this year. You won't need a woolly hat or a down jacket. I walked with a girl from Australia and she wasn't cold in May when temps were in the 20s (I was dying in the heat). You heat up when you walk with a pack and it's unlikely you will walk with 2 shirts. But that said, some people like to walk all sweaty and overheated. I saw it every day. It's a personal preference.

    I also found that 1 bra was enough. I wore it while hiking for modesty and to help absorb sweat (ExOfficio crossover bra-super light) but in the evenings almost every girl in our group just went without. It's not needed for lounging around and eating at a bar. Just take non see through shirts if you are modest.

    I also took a battery charger for my iPhone 7 Plus and never used it. I used my phone for photos and as a GPS and never ran out of battery life. Especially in airplane mode. I opted to not take my DSLR and I was glad that I did.

    What else? The grocery stores have bags so you don't need to take one to carry groceries. We did take a Swiss Army knife and used it every day to cut cheese and slice the bread in half. But it's not needed. They sell cheese that's precut (more expensive) and you can always just make a messy cut to the bread to open it up.

    Leave the instant coffee. The coffee in Spain is delicious and you can buy it everywhere. You only need the shoes you are walking in and a pair of sandals or something to hang out in at the end of the day.

    I'm not an advocate of rain pants. They make me way too hot. I just wore a lightweight rain jacket and my rain skirt and that was only on days where it was a downpour that lasted hours. I think I wore my rain skirt once or twice. The jacket maybe 3 times. I started overheating pretty fast in it. Otherwise, I just prefer to get wet. It cools me off when the temps are in the 20s and 30s. Of course I had a pack cover. Nothing ever got wet. I should mention I walked everyday in a hiking skirt, too. You can read my blog and see pictures here: http://www.musingsfromthelastfrontier.com
    Yes, I'm from Alaska, but I actually tend to get cold easy and this was never an issue in Spain except over one 1200 meter pass when it was windy and rainy.

    A buff is light weight and you can always use it as a hat if your ears get cold at higher altitude. I wore mine once for about 2 hours. We took headlamps and used them 3 times on mornings when we left before 6 am and it was still dark. Needed them to navigate out of town and through the woods. We only left early in an effort to beat the heat as much as possible. Never needed them inside the albergue since we had everything packed up and ready to go for the next morning.

    Good luck culling your pack!
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
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  28. Marc S.

    Marc S. Active Member

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    Lots of good advice already been given. Pondering about packing lists is good fun, but you can only find out what suits you while you are walking. And maybe you will be fine carrying 8 kg (I found out I am, and I weigh the same as you). And even when you do not really need all the stuff you carry (what one needs is highly subjective by the way) you can always get rid off it while walking. Taking instant coffee may sound useless for some, but if it makes you happy - take it.
    So my advice would be: if you are in doubt about taking an item - skip it; if you are in big doubt, take it ! ;)
     
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  29. timr

    timr Active Member Donating Member

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    Exactly. I had always resisted bringing my full size SLR, but I got an Olympus m4/3 specially and have not regretted it for the past three or four caminos.
     
  30. markmcilroy

    markmcilroy Member Donating Member

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    Just saw that you mentioned bug spray....leave this at home, I never saw a bug that may have bitten. But I did spray the inside of my pack and silk liner with "Kiwicare NO Bed Bugs" it is a ready to use spray sold in 680 ml spray trigger bottles. I bought mine from Bunnings. The spray last about 6 weeks.

    I agree with the previous comments about how half the fun of this adventure is seeing how little you can walk out your front door with.

    Also as you live in NZ like me, New Zealand is the antipodes of Spain and the exact antipodes of Wellington according to https://www.antipodesmap.com/ is only about 150km from the CF path.
     
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  31. Please, unless you are an A or B cup with purky breasts that do not move even when you are doing jumping jacks, do not roam around town bouncing around. Why would you do it in small villages filled with dignified and proper older people when you would not at home?

    As for the rain pants, I started carrying them after my acupuncturist told me I was nuts to think of possibly walking for days in cold rain, explaining the difference between dry and wet cold. And I was so glad I listened to him when I walked for days non stop in May of 2013 in record low temps for Spain, in the rain. Mine weigh 120 grams or so. Well worth it.
     
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  32. mega

    mega New Member

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    I wish, but age has weary them and the years condemned.

    I worked for 6 years in an outdoor pool complex here in NZ. I wore my wet weather pants year round in the evenings just to keep warm. I know people say you sweat in them, but I have found I don't seem to. and I hate being cold and wet. Might ditch the poncho, but not the wet weather pants and jacket
     
  33. Agreed, take the rain pants, but id you ditch the poncho, make sure you have a backpack cover. Not sure they make them for Aarn bags? If you still want to carry that heavy bag...
     
  34. mega

    mega New Member

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    Must say that instant coffee doesn't make me happy. But if I don't get some sort of caffeine hit as soon as I wake up, I just can't seem to function. And experience has taught me that I am not to nice to be around until I get a sufficient hit.

    I have been hoping to see if there is facilities to make coffee before I leave in the mornings. Then I can leave the flask at home, get my caffeine hit, and walk to the nearest cafe to get a second much nicer cup
     
  35. mega

    mega New Member

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    I think one of the reasons the pack is so heavy is it complete with dry liners already installed in the main pack and in the balance pockets. That is if I take the larger ones, the compact sports pockets don't have any
     
  36. Look for an albergue close to a bar that opens early. On the Frances, that should not be a problem, unless you leave at 5 am. Or caugh up the extra 3€ for breakfast at the albergue. It will come with some for of coffee wannabe.
     
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  37. A backpack cover shaouldn't weigh more than a few grams...
     
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  38. jo webber

    jo webber Active Member

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    You still have a few months to figure out your pack and individual items. It took me months too. Think layers. Put on all your shirts at once, how warm are you? Climb into your sleeping bag with all the clothes on, are you cooking?

    Think double use. Tights or leggings under your hiking pants will add warmth. Can you hike for a couple of hours in your sandals? Can you find lighter weight ones.

    Lay out all of your things.
    What items are both doing the same job - get rid of one.
    What items do you need vs. want - get rid of half of the wants.
    See if you can find ultra light items to replace what you have.

    And remember, it may be hot when you begin and cool off as you go - there are stores in Spain. I struggled with what to take and what to leave too. And, yes, I am taking a couple of wants. We will leave St Jean on Sept 9th and walk slowly into full fall months.
     
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  39. alaskadiver

    alaskadiver Active Member

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    Won't be returning in 2018 going on a dive trip instead.
    Well, I'm a C cup and I didn't go "bouncing around". Guess I have perky breasts :) Not everyone has breasts down to their knees. The bra I wore was not even supportive LOL. You know what? Not one single dignified older person gave me a second look nor did they give a damn.

    I think acupuncturists are quacks so I won't even address that. But rain pants in the heat are a sauna and a great way to overheat. The OP is walking in September when it is still very HOT. Everyone has to find what works for them. My rain skirt (the 2 times I wore it) worked for me without creating a sauna effect. If you like rain pants and have tried them in a hiking situation, go for it.
    This forum is for everyone to offer an opinion. Take what works for you and leave the rest.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
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  40. Thirstywork

    Thirstywork Member

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    I'd have a lighter bag under a kilo plus leave down jacket, it's a great jacket but if it gets wet then it's heavier and a problem, take the other one.
     
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  41. Irish Bernie

    Irish Bernie Active Member

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    I've packed as light as i can n it's still 12-13Kg !!!!
     
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  42. OzAnnie

    OzAnnie Veteran Member Donating Member

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    Sorry I didn't have time to read all responses but did you include a towel?
     
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  43. SYates

    SYates Camino Fossil AD 1999 Donating Member

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    Now: http://egeria.house/
    Just post your own packing list in a new thread and you will get more opinions than you ever wanted to hear ;-) BC SY
     
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  44. Irish Bernie

    Irish Bernie Active Member

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    Oops landlady bought new scales and my back is actually 5.5Kg DOH !!!!
     
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  45. SYates

    SYates Camino Fossil AD 1999 Donating Member

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    Miracles of the Camino and Mrs. Cosmopilite ;-) Buen Camino, SY
     
  46. Icacos

    Icacos Veteran Member

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    You've been given some great advice here but, if you are worried about being cold, you may consider taking something to wrap around your neck if the temperature drops. I walked in the shoulder months (April and May), had some unseasonably hot days and some very cold mornings. It was -4 the morning we left Burgos; I had my buff covering my ears and I would have given my eye teeth for something to put around my neck for extra warmth (I would have been happy with a rag). My shirt, fleece jacket and waterproof shell, all zipped up to the neck, just weren't enough. Even though people say you can buy what you need along the camino, at 7:00 in the morning when one is leaving town in sub-zero temperatures, there aren't any stores open.
     
  47. Could not agree any more. Nothing open at 7 am, and even at 3-8pm, very few places in the small villages the Caminos take you through. Last May, someone stole my liner, so I was looking for a bed sheet. This was Portugal, starting in Porto. Nothing for days, until Tui. Most of these towns depend on the weekly local market, or a car ride to somewhere else, kms away.

    This year, VDLP, German pilgrim in Alcuezar needed new shoes. Hospy took him some 20km into the city (Caceres) and even then had to visit a handleful of stores, not all one next to the other, to find anything in hos size!

    Yes Spain is civilised, but the places we actually walk through are not any different than our small villages in the middle of nowhere.
     
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  48. Icacos

    Icacos Veteran Member

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    Precisely, and the thought of having to shop when I'd rather be in another 'space' is something I'd rather not entertain. Any kind of shopping I find is a waste of valuable time.
     
  49. drvnsmiln

    drvnsmiln Member

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    Are you carrying your sleeping bag in the bottom of your backpack? My backpack was a bit too long to go on the plane as well. I carried a very lightweight fabric shopping bag (like the one you propose for the evenings) and put my sleeping bag - in a Sea to Summit dry bag/stuff sac - so it was the size of a coffee can. I also had my waist pac in that bag to carry on ...You are allowed two i.e., the backpack and the shopping bag. If you don't take a sleeping bag, you could make the pack "shorter" by putting your jacket and or rain gear in a stuff bag (for compression) and carrying it in the shopping bag. That being said, I still needed to check a box containing my Z poles, Swiss knife, some liquids and the thrift store clothes I took to wear in the 4 days of touristing in Seville before I actually started to walk. (These clothes were donated in Seville.) Hope this gives you some ideas...
     
  50. mega

    mega New Member

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    Hey, yes I did. I added into the toiletries figure. I have a pack towel. Its the largest one, but still only 140g. Been in use for a few years traveling, so haven't seen the need to buy a smaller, lighter on yet. That may come and I bring a square the size of a hanky if I can't make some weight savings elsewhere.
     
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  51. mega

    mega New Member

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    Its the length of the internal frame that makes this a bit too long I think. It will be fine on the long flights with Singapore Airlines, but the shorter internal flights in Europe with Ryan Air, no. And last time I flew with them they wanted to charge me extra in the checked lugged because of the straps on my pack. I just poped it in the cover and saved my self a few quid. I prefer not to check, but at least I will have piece of mind using 40lt sea to summit bag
     
  52. mega

    mega New Member

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    Thanks. This is the big fear with being cold. Its not while walking, its the early starts or the evenings getting back from dinner. I find that even here in NZ in the summer, as soon as the sun goes down I am reaching for a scarf or a cardigan to take the chill off.
     
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  53. Tia Valeria

    Tia Valeria Veteran Member Donating Member

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    I cannot bear being cold so I carry a light/medium weight fleece rather than a jacket so I can wear it in the evening etc if needed. More versatile than having an actual jacket and I have a poncho for rain gear. The only time we didn't pack warmer gear we had to buy in Oviedo and the fleeces were heavier than the ones left at home :(.
     
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  54. J F Gregory

    J F Gregory Preparing for the Norte Donating Member

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    We walked in the winter of 2016.
    Clothing-
    pants quick dry, wear one carry one
    2 smart wool shirts 1 long sleeve, one short sleeve
    2 Ex-officio under wear, wear on carry one
    1 lightweight full zip fleece
    1 rain coat
    1 rain pants ( preferred over poncho)
    2 smart wool socks, 2 silk sock liners
    1 pare flip flops
    light smart wool cap
    baseball cap
    medication
    osprey pack 2.3 lbs.
    down sleeping quilt 24 oz.
    silk sleep liner
    head lamp and pen light for in the albergues.
    smart phone and charger just for taking pictures.
    walking sticks
    sun glasses (had only 5 days of sun out of 36)
    With this our pack weighed 8 lbs. before water and snacks which brought it 11 lbs.
    I am in the process of purchasing a ULA back pack 32 oz.
    less is better.
    Both my wife and I packed similarly and had about the same weight. Our goal was to keep the total weight under 14 lbs.
    Light weight layering of clothing helps, The temperature during our walk averaged 28f-52f consistently. average temperature about 40f.
     
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  55. mega

    mega New Member

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    Thank you all for your help. Just revised the list (for about the 30th time) and have got the weight of the pack and contents down to a much more manageable 5.8kg before food and water. Training was a much more pleasurable experience this morning!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  56. Well done! That is a super weight! Your feet will thank you.
     
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  57. wcsjms

    wcsjms Active Member Donating Member Donating Member

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    Are you sure about that? They have stores there? Really? That is soooo cool , thanks for the info :p:D:p
     
  58. Oh, they have stores in Spain, just not in the small towns and villages where you will be walking. There are cars in Spain: people use them to go shopping. There are also delivery vans bringing all sorts of food, which explains why there is so little in the villages' tiny grocery stores. :p
     
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  59. Micah26

    Micah26 Active Member Donating Member

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    Hi Mega,
    Try to think of it as a weekend trip! Bring bare necessities just what you wear and a change. Bring sleeping bag liner or sleeping bag not both-I'd do the liner. You can always add a layer at night to sleep in! One light jacket and pants or just poncho no down. If you have bad feet I think extra shoes ok but same should be ok in shower. No makeup toothbrush toothpaste soap and shampoo or use same for both. First aid bring tapes ibuprofen couple bandaids rest can be bought. Coffee buy in Spain. Water bottle buy water or juice and use that. Hat and buff . Camera if necessary I would use iPhone leave I watch at home don't want to lose! No extra battery will be able to charge. Put pics etc on cloud or email to self. Look at osprey bags some are real light! Would fit so wouldn't have to ship. Buy cheap knife in Spain/France.
    Only you know what's important! Don't pack you fears what could happen but say to yourself it will work out or I can buy it there! Do some training runs with full pack 10-15 km 6-8 miles you will know if x 30 it's a go!
     
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  60. t2andreo

    t2andreo Veteran Member Donating Member

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    I usually allow everyone else to pile on to these packing list scrums. This is because I have come to realize that the correct packing list and final carry weight is the figure that works for you. You have to carry the load. You will benefit form the proper, lighter load, or, like me, be frequenting the Correos to mail things you do not need, down the road, to Ivar at Santiago.

    I will share a recently learned lesson regarding what to pack. This advice is SEASONAL and applies to Caminos walked from May through maybe September. Do not rely solely on what I say.

    In place of a sleeping bag or cloth liner, I carry a microfiber sleeping bag liner by Alps Mountaineering (www.alpsmountaineering.com). It weighs 450 grams (15.9 ounces). This liner can double as a bath towel, as it is absorbent but dries VERY FAST.

    In place of a fleece, weighing 535 grams (19 ounces), I used a long sleeve Underarmour Polo shirt intended for winter wear. The microfiber shirt weighs 321 grams (11.4 ounces), in men's XL size.

    The shirt is slightly heavier in weave than a summer-weight polo shirt, but was very warm and perfect as a layer under my rip-stop Marmot rain parka. On one rainy windy day this May, I was thankful for the collar to turn up and cover my neck. You can even wear it to sleep on a cool night...LOL.

    Between these two gear substitutions, I saved an estimated one kilogram in weight, compared to bringing a sleeping bag and regular light weight fleece.

    I hope this helps.
     
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  61. Buzz Gray

    Buzz Gray New Member

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    Don't worry if folks get peeved about newbie questions. Interestingly, I will be leaving St. Jean on Sept. 15. This will be my 4th. I carry about 12 lbs. 3 undies, 3 pr. socks, 3 pr. walking shorts, 3 long-sleeve t-shirts., 1 towel, meds., toiletries, flip flops, 1 water bottle, light weight sleeping sack, cheap plastic throw away poncho, light nylon jacket, and Brierlie's Guide. I walk in Adidas running shoes and never had a blister. My backpack is small enough to be a carry on during flights. If you get out there and discover that you have forgotten something, you will be able to find in the next town. Chinese Bazaars have everything. Hope you have a great time.
     
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  62. Elizabeth_B

    Elizabeth_B Member Donating Member

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    Hi Mega, there's lots of really excellent advice provided here. I walked the CdeF at a similar time to you, late September to late October - and I found it HOT, simply because I am not used to walking in temperatures in high 20s (very seldom reaches that here in Wellington, NZ). I managed to leave with a pack weight of about 6.5 kg, and was pleased to be able to just have a carry on for the flights there and back.
    Like you, I took icebreaker tops, two short- and one long-sleeved, the 150 ultralights. Ended up wearing the long-sleeved top every day to protect my arms from the sun. It was excellent, didn't need washing as often (the non-stinky factor) and dried quickly when I did wash it. But I found I hardly used the second short-sleeved top.
    On some NZ brands - Earth Sea and Sky (www.earthseasky.co.nz) also make excellent hiking/travel products. I took a Plume microfleece (180 gm) for evening warmth, very light and comfortable, wore it every day. It was also essential in Santiago de C in early November. I also took one of their silk weight (100gm) baselayers for evenings (under the short sleeved top), as I tend to chill quickly once walking stops. Also used this as a pillow cover.
    I took a light Kathmandu sleeping bag (690 gm) but didn't always use it and could have managed with just a liner, although I was really glad of it at times. Macpac sells an even lighter down bag at 530 gm and I might use that if I do the Norte next year (www.macpac.co.nz/escapade-150-standard-sleeping-bag.html).
    Like others have commented, good to prune your toiletries/first aid list. Pharmacies in Spain are plentiful and excellent. I bought at least contact lens solution, toothpaste, soap, shampoo, bandaids, cough lozenges, paracetamol at various 'farmacias' on my camino. "Donde esta la farmacia?" is a good phrase to know!
    Again - your pack sounds heavy, but might be worth it if really comfortable. Osprey packs are very light (buy them at Bivouac) although I ended up with a Lowe Alpine Airzone at 1.14 kg (has inbuilt pack cover) from Dwights (www.dwights.co.nz).
    Also, on my second camino last year I carried and used a silvered umbrella, which I found great for both hot sun and rain.
    Happy to provide any other thoughts from a fellow NZ-er who also dislikes being cold AND being too hot!
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
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  63. kdespot

    kdespot Active Member

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    I walked almost the exact same dates last year and while the weather these days is more unpredictable than ever, I can say that after a few initial chilly days in the Pyrenees, days were mild to quite warm until arriving back in the mountains on day 28. Layers got me through the early mornings, most peeling off quite quickly. In the end when it got cold, the local market sold gloves and buffs. No need to carry that stuff for 28 days. I left in the dark most mornings and a headlamp was great to have but leave it behind unless you think you'll be part of the headlamp gang. I'm right with you on the need for caffeine immediately in the morning but I really did find it at either the albergue or at a bar in the town where I was staying. And if you bring instant coffee, how are you going to heat the water? Add the weight of a coil to your pack. Finally, while yes, you can buy almost anything in Spain, you can't buy almost anything in most of the villages that you'll be passing through. Or anywhere on Sunday. Or between 2-4pm. Go ahead and, if in doubt, take it. You can always leave stuff in the goodwill box. And you will. By day 3, you'll know what to leave behind.
     
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  64. MichelleElynHogan

    MichelleElynHogan Active Member

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    Hi Mega,

    It is my goal to offer help outside of all other comments, if I can.

    Here I would ask if an earlier date to walk the Camino is possible? If so, even by a month, the warmer clothing could be left at home. Two hats and a buff? A hat for Sun protection is wise but the wool hat can be left home and use the buff and sun hat when it is cooler. The down jacket and sleeping bag could be left at home too. In the warmer weather, a silk liner is about all that is needed. If it gets chillier, throw on your clothes and crawl back in. Some albergues do have blanlets for extra warmth.

    As far as food, it is wise to carry only one day of lunches and snacks. Water is available all along the trek.

    Finally, 1994g or round up to 2kg is a heavy pack. There are lighter ones out there. But, as mentioned, go for the smallest pack you can as long as it is comfortable.
     
  65. chantele

    chantele New Member

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    Hi Mega,
    I'm going to chime in here with a different perspective and I suspect a lot of people will think I'm a bit crazy. We are hiking in late August/ September with our toddler who weighs nearly 12kgs. That means one pack will weigh at least 14kgs and the other will probably weigh 9-10kgs and I am a petite 5"3' 55kg person. We are going to hike Camino Frances in 30 days.
    Am I worried? No! not at all. Weight is always relative to what you are used to. I am used to fast packing (running in the mountains over a number of days) with around 6.5 kgs and racing in the mountains with around 5kgs. (Looking at your gear list I am wondering if you are also a trail runner? ) Additionally I have hiked most days with the little one since he was born and I can tell you- it is much easier walking with 12+kg on my back than on my front :)
    So, I'd say don't stress about the weight. Just train with it and your body will adapt. If you want to take your coffee, do it! Like others have said you can always donate it or forward unused things to Ivar and pick them up at the end. The Camino is not a race, it is a chance to clear your mind and relax, so if a few creature comforts help you do that, why not?! Our bodies are amazing and will adapt to almost anything we do within two weeks- Having said that, the more you train now the easier it will be out there.

    I also have an Aarn pack and love it. It is the marathon magic 33, so a bit lighter than yours but still a bit over a kg with the balance pockets included. I don't think people can comprehend how much more comfortable an aarn is unless they have one. I tried a whole bunch of packs on Osprey, etc. etc. when they were on sale over Christmas and guess what I ended up almost buying- an Aarn. They are just so good.

    People have given you good advice re. take either a sleep bag or a liner; not taking the sleep mat unless you are camping out, zip off pants instead of tights and shorts and not worrying about sleeping attire. I agree that the down jacket would be overkill. You are not sleeping in a hut in the mountains. Also you should either choose the OR jacket or poncho. I'm still flip flopping on this too. It is so light weight, which is great, but it gets so sweaty!
    I would also agree about forgetting the flip flops (just make sure you dry your toes and air them well after showers so even if you do come across fungus it won't be able to grow). Also in terms of spare shoes, if you need them why would you choose the Helios? they are light, but they are not designed for asphalt or hardpacked trail- they are too soft and squishy (low drop, minimal support on your foot) and the tread wears down way too quickly (great on rocks though, as I'm sure you'd know).

    Lastly, is your flask something special? If not consider getting a couple of soft flasks like the platypus or hyrdroflask ones. The hydroflask are great as they squish up small and weigh next to nothing. Also they have a lifetime guarantee.

    Anyway, food for thought :) Good luck on you adventure


     
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  66. kinnear

    kinnear Active Member Donating Member

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  67. kinnear

    kinnear Active Member Donating Member

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    Hi Elizabeth. Greetings from a fellow Kiwi. I'm from the Kapiti Coast and planning to leave from SJPDP on 23 September... taking it slowly since I have two months in Europe...flying home on 16 November. I resolved NOT to sweat over my gear however I find that I am!. I'm 68 and walked the Camino 10 years ago May - June. I discovered then that I hate being too hot. Now I'm alternating between concern about whether the cold will be more of an issue and then swinging back to heat! I will definitely be taking my Altus raincoat/poncho and an ultra light sleeping bag. I have op shop bargain icebreaker gear for Africa - can probably start a business with it when I return! What did you wear for trousers/leggings/skirt? Also I fly in and out of Paris and plan to be there for several days before hand and a week after and want to be tidy those days. Is it still warm enough for Teva sandals early November or would my Crocs be better 2nd shoes? I need to go ultra light and I'm walking solo, just 5' 2 and 140 lb. Any advice welcome?
     
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  68. Jeff Crawley

    Jeff Crawley Veteran Member

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    Double like
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  69. Elizabeth_B

    Elizabeth_B Member Donating Member

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    Hi there Kinnear! From memory, the heat was definitely more of an issue for me than the cold, particularly in the early stages. As you know, in our region it might warm up during the day but the heat drops away in the late afternoon. I found it different in Spain, the heat would build through the afternoon and could be hottest at eg 5 pm. I wore a pair of hiking trousers (Kathmandu brand), very comfortable but too hot at the start. Next time I would take a lighter pair of convertible trousers for more options in the heat. Mind you the trousers were perfect for late October/early November including, like you, when I was in Paris for a week. Definitely chillier in November. I carried a light waterproof jacket which was great for warmth on cooler and windy days.
    Layers is definitely the way to go, to manage both the heat and the cooler temps. Either tevas or crocs would be fine for second shoes but you might find them chilly in the later stages (could always wear them with socks!).
     
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  70. Jeff Crawley

    Jeff Crawley Veteran Member

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    (lipstick if you are a girl I guess)

    or lip salve if you're a roughtie-toughtie bloke . . . if I have hay fever I get congested and mouth breath which ends up in dry lips.
    The Spanish equivalent (crema de labia) can be expensive.
     
  71. Jeff Crawley

    Jeff Crawley Veteran Member

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    Now THAT's the way to lighten your load. Can you ask her if I can borrow them please? For me not my pack.
     
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  72. Jeff Crawley

    Jeff Crawley Veteran Member

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    You forgot to say they (usually) have good manners too . . .
     
  73. Jeff Crawley

    Jeff Crawley Veteran Member

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    Moving the date forward by a month would put Mega on the Mesata around the end of August. Temperature there at that time last year was about 33 °C - so yes, she wouldn't need the wooly hat!
     
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  74. Jeff Crawley

    Jeff Crawley Veteran Member

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    Off topic but, not knowing where you come from, is your toddler used to high temperatures? You're going to be in temperatures that could be up to 30+ °C everyday for a month.
    Take care!
     
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  75. Jodean

    Jodean Member

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    Keep the flip-flops. The floors in the showers and bathrooms can get really gross and disgusting. They don't weigh much, but for me, they are a keeper.
    Mornings and evenings in Oct. can be rather chilly, so bring your sleeping bag, but leave the liner at home. You won't need a wool hat though, or gloves.
    For me, a total of 3 shirts, 2 pair of pants, 3 socks, 3 undies, 2 bras worked well. Had a light nightgown to wear.

    Your toiletries and first aid are the heaviest things you have.

    Never once started walking without coffee. You just need to find the places that will be open early in the morning, the night before, so you can run down first thing in the morning and have coffee. Or make sure you stay in albergues that have coffee.

    The comment about women "needing" to wear bras so as not to annoy anyone is rather out of line.
     
  76. mega

    mega New Member

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    Thanks. Might see you on the road
     
  77. mega

    mega New Member

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    Thanks. I have no idea why I am finding it a bit hard to work out how to pack for the weather. I have never had this issue before, and I normal only take cary on!

    My pack is on the touch heavy side, however it feels amazing on, it is honestly like wearing a vest with a hip belt. I have pruned down the list and it is a much more manageable 5.8kg. Also meant that I was able to go down to the small balance bags and that managed to cut nearly half a kilo off in one easy move!
     
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  78. mega

    mega New Member

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    Cool. So even if you left early you were able to get a coffee before you started walking? I had debated bringing a hot water coil, but that meant a metal mug and a spoon and it all just got a bit complicated in my head. Thats were the idea for the flask came in. Get boiling water the night before and therefore just pore the coffee when I get up. I though it was a brilliant idea, but even my husband just looked at me and told me to get over it and buy a coffee at breakfast like a normal person
     
  79. mega

    mega New Member

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    Thanks. If I could I would have, but not to be. The joys of family and businesses mean even getting away for 7 weeks in sept / oct is a trifle on the indulgent side.
     
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  80. dougfitz

    dougfitz Veteran Member Donating Member

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    Sensible man, that husband of yours!!
     
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  81. mega

    mega New Member

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    Thanks for the advise. And the reassurance about the coffee!
     
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  82. mega

    mega New Member

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    Yep, he is so sensible that he is staying at home. I assume its to avoid the fall out if I can't get a coffee.
     
  83. kdespot

    kdespot Active Member

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    No, I have to tell you honestly that I was able to get coffee before or very soon after beginning to walk. On those few days when the beloved cup of joe didn't materialize as soon as I would have preferred, I discovered that I was actually just fine. I was rather proud of myself for my new-found flexibility. "Normal" life at home doesn't always translate to life on the Camino. On the other hand, most pilgrims laugh about the one or two "luxuries" that we have packed. The coil and cup might be yours.
     
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  84. TraveltoMastery

    TraveltoMastery New Member

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    @mega Welcome! It's better to ask these questions and peeve a few people off than to get out on the Camino and find out you overpacked. You definitely don't need an extra pair of shoes! I would suggest you use your La Sportiva Helios runners as your main shoe and bring flip flops for the showers. If you plan on staying in albergues you won't need you Gobi Gear hobo roll either. Also, the cafes along the camino have excellent coffee and all the albergues I stayed at provided coffee, so you won't need to bring any instant coffee. Otherwise your list looks good.

    I walked the Camino Norte and Primitivo last year. If you want to compare your list to what I brought, check out: http://www.traveltomastery.com/camino-de-santiago-northern-way
     
  85. FLEUR

    FLEUR Active Member

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    On the CF taking walking sandals to change into when feet were hot and tired was a life saver. On an impulse 3 day trek in France on the St Jacques de Compostelle route I didn't have these but was glad of a cheap pair of sneakers to change into (fromLidl) they had good soles. Useful for evening wear too. Old flip flops for shower room wear.
     
  86. Charles Zammit

    Charles Zammit Active Member

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    Le Puy en Velay - Ales [2018]
    Don't forget sunscreen ! Use it frequently on the backs of your calves and neck . I saw so many Northern Euopean pilgrims in great pain. For the most part they did not realise the power of the sun and the exposure the general Westward orientation of the Camino gives to your back .
    Save weight by all means but don't skimp on UF60.
     
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