Why go south to go north-west?

[Sheffield James]

I had an idle thought this morning that I'm sharing in the hope there's a quick and easy answer.

Why does the Levante go south first from Valencia before heading up north-westerly to SdC? Is it simply a question of Geography? I see there is a mountain range to the west of Valencia, but is it any tougher to cross than sierras on other routes?

Please ignore if you consider the query to be too frivolous.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Because it may have made good use of the old Roman Augusta Road which roughly lined the coast?

 

[george.g]

Hi James,
I asked the same question in Jan '14 and never got a proper answer, but I have seen a remark somewhere that the Camino Levante was "invented" by two ladies on bicycles in the nineties? (Wish I could remember where) I'm sure that in the past, pilgrims would not have gone south, taking a more direct route towards Madrid would seem to make more sense.
From a practical point of view I decided to combine the Levante and Sureste and started in Alicante and joined the Vdlp at Zamora, picking a more or less direct northwesterly path.
Plus I was lucky enough to meet Donovan from Melbourne and walk with him for a few days.
Regards
George

 

[Sheffield James]

Hi James,
I asked the same question in Jan '14 and never got a proper answer, but I have seen a remark somewhere that the Camino Levante was "invented" by two ladies on bicycles in the nineties? (Wish I could remember where) I'm sure that in the past, pilgrims would not have gone south, taking a more direct route towards Madrid would seem to make more sense.
From a practical point of view I decided to combine the Levante and Sureste and started in Alicante and joined the Vdlp at Zamora, picking a more or less direct northwesterly path.
Plus I was lucky enough to meet Donovan from Melbourne and walk with him for a few days.
Regards
George

Thanks, George. Sounds plausible to me.

Re the Levante/Sureste routes, I've seen a map that seems to show the two caminos criss-crossing each other a few times before reaching Toledo. If correct, I wonder why didn't they simply become one single camino path at the point where they first meet?

Re your Bolton location, haven't we walked together as part of the 'Ultreia Mancunia' SdC forum+Facebook group?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Valencia was a major port where pilgrims arrived to Spain by boat and walked from there to Santiago. In the 13th century it had 13 hospitals. I think this lets us know that it is not a camino recently invented in the 90s.

But perhpas an email to the association who manages it might help? info@vieiragrino.com

I still cannot help but believe that it just follows the Augustus route. If you superimpose a map of each route you basically see one and the same, at the start of the Levante.

 

[Sheffield James]

@anemone, I am sure you are correct in saying Valencia was a significant camino starting-point, so I am going to write to the Association, as you suggest, to seek their views on the historical origins of/possible changes to the actual Levante route. Moreover, It will give me an opportunity to practice my Castilian Spanish before I begin my walk in the Spring. However, I may need your assistance with the translation of their reply.

 

[peregrina2000]

It also tracks the Cercanias train route for the first couple of days, all the way to Moixent. http://www.renfe.com/viajeros/cercanias/planos/valencia.png.

BTW, looking at that cercanias map reminded me of how absolutely spectacular the Xativa castle is. A couple of people I know who walked the Levante either didn't go up because it was raining or just didn't have the energy, but I assure you it is worth that extra burst of adrenaline in the late afternoon to make it up there. Just amazing. Oh, I would really love to walk this route again! Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Anemone del Camino]

@anemone, I am sure you are correct in saying Valencia was a significant camino starting-point, so I am going to write to the Association, as you suggest, to seek their views on the historical origins of/possible changes to the actual Levante route. Moreover, It will give me an opportunity to practice my Castilian Spanish before I begin my walk in the Spring. However, I may need your assistance with the translation of their reply.

Just don't use Google Translate.

 

[Sheffield James]

Just don't use Google Translate.

Spoilsport!!! OK, I promise!

 

[KinkyOne]

Because it may have made good use of the old Roman Augusta Road which roughly lined the coast?

Same info I got in 2015.

 

[george.g]

Hi James,
Did we walk round Edale, and had sun, rain, sleet and snow on the same day!
Re the Levante/Sureste, best plan is to write out the stages of both and compare, I think they come together at Albercete (Levante day 8 Sureste day 6) and more or less overlap untill Medina del Campo when the one heads towards Zamora and the other to Benevente, so I guess it depends on what you intend to do after, Zamora /Sanabrese or Benavente / French Way?
Its not just these two routes, you will find that at some point that you will see route markings for Sureste, Levante,Ruta Don Quixote and Camino Annibal on the same post.
See Lauries blogg/posts for good info on the route.
Regards
George.

 

[Sheffield James]

Hi James,
Did we walk round Edale, and had sun, rain, sleet and snow on the same day!
Re the Levante/Sureste, best plan is to write out the stages of both and compare, I think they come together at Albercete (Levante day 8 Sureste day 6) and more or less overlap untill Medina del Campo when the one heads towards Zamora and the other to Benevente, so I guess it depends on what you intend to do after, Zamora /Sanabrese or Benavente / French Way?
Its not just these two routes, you will find that at some point that you will see route markings for Sureste, Levante,Ruta Don Quixote and Camino Annibal on the same post.
See Lauries blogg/posts for good info on the route.
Regards
George.

Yes, indeed. And Edgworth too?
Cheers for the info, which I'll add to the pot!
James

 

[filly]

I remember in addition crossing the Camino de la Lana.... I did follow for a while the Ruta de Don Quixote but never did meet any horseback riders!

 

[pilgr]

Hi James,
Did we walk round Edale, and had sun, rain, sleet and snow on the same day!
Re the Levante/Sureste, best plan is to write out the stages of both and compare, I think they come together at Albercete (Levante day 8 Sureste day 6) and more or less overlap untill Medina del Campo when the one heads towards Zamora and the other to Benevente, so I guess it depends on what you intend to do after, Zamora /Sanabrese or Benavente / French Way?
Its not just these two routes, you will find that at some point that you will see route markings for Sureste, Levante,Ruta Don Quixote and Camino Annibal on the same post.
See Lauries blogg/posts for good info on the route.
Regards
George.

@george.g

My intention is to make the Alicante start like you did, starting mid-March. The reason is I understand the route to be much more picturesque and less pavement, then the Levante route. Was this your experience? Any suggestions for those first 6 legs before meeting up with the Levante?

 

[george.g]

Hi Pilgr,
I walked from Alicante, starting during the first week of April.
I planned the walk so I could visit the local Amigo's office to (a) let them know I was on the route (b) get them to phone Snr Paco for the first night albergue as I had seen somewhere that the albergue in Novelda had changed, as it happened it had (c) first stamp.
The route was well signed out of Alicante, first couple of hours was the usual industrial but soon passed.
My stages were:- Novelda............Albergue (Snr Paco )
Sax....................Hotel Fuente de Cura. Discount for pilgrims.
Caudete.............Albergue Santa Anna.
Monte Alegra....Albergue
Petrola..............Albergue attached to church.
Albercete...........Hostal Atienzar. They do your washing as part of the deal.
I would make sure I had phone numbers for the local police or ayuntamiento and phone the day before and again if there is a chance they could be closed when you arrive.
Regards
George

 

[pilgr]

Hi Pilgr,
I walked from Alicante, starting during the first week of April.
I planned the walk so I could visit the local Amigo's office to (a) let them know I was on the route (b) get them to phone Snr Paco for the first night albergue as I had seen somewhere that the albergue in Novelda had changed, as it happened it had (c) first stamp.
The route was well signed out of Alicante, first couple of hours was the usual industrial but soon passed.
My stages were:- Novelda............Albergue (Snr Paco )
Sax....................Hotel Fuente de Cura. Discount for pilgrims.
Caudete.............Albergue Santa Anna.
Monte Alegra....Albergue
Petrola..............Albergue attached to church.
Albercete...........Hostal Atienzar. They do your washing as part of the deal.
I would make sure I had phone numbers for the local police or ayuntamiento and phone the day before and again if there is a chance they could be closed when you arrive.
Regards
George

Thanks George! I appreciate your advice to call the police in the next town a day ahead. I imagine the police offices have that info for the respective pueblos too. Did you find whether the albergues had any heat at night?

 

[george.g]

Hi Pilgr,
Re phone numbers, you can find them on Mundicamino or the Alicante amigos site, in my case I visited the office in Alicante. Phone number could be police, town hall, or just a contact person, but on arrival in town, the local police is often a good place to call.
As to heating, I can't honestly remember, but I can't think it was an issue for me because I always carry a light sleeping bag for the reason we are currently discussing on the mozarabe section.
30 kms of walking + food + vino tinto + warm sleeping bag = a good nights sleep.
Regards
George

 

[JLWV]

I have just read now this thread from some months ago and can give some rapid information.

I know the two ladies who are named, namely Angelita and Amparo, and can say they did not invent the Levante way, neither did it on bicycles. At least one of them was present at the Amigos' office the days James and Matt visited us.

This is the result of years of investigation, beginning in the 80s, and visiting the archives of cities, hospitals etc... to get data about pass of pilgrims. All routes, north-west, west, and south-west where explored by foot, and in those years there were not the infrastructures of today.

Just as an example, these ladies, with the help of various fellows checked, for pilgrims, the 48 registers called “llibres de malalts rebuts al Espital General de Valencia” between 1543 and 1601 (the golden age of Valencia). Those books are of course hand-written in medieval valencian language. In other places, like Catarroja, they found in account-books assignation for hospitality of pilgrims...

Based on those research and geographical studies, the conclusion was that the main way is what we name Camino de Levante. As Anemone says, this was the roman “Via Augusta” until Moixent, where it turns south. It has been a way which permit climb progressively to the “meseta” without need to cross the canyons of Turia, Gabriel or Jucar rivers.

De facto people here still use the words “camí reial” (royal path) to the road that connects Valencia with Madrid via Almansa and Albacete. And 20 years ago, when the bridges of the highway A3 were not yet build, it was common to drive to Madrid by this road.

This item has been object of various conferences, and I hope you are a little bit more informed.

Jean-Luc

 

[Donovan]

This is the result of years of investigation, beginning in the 80s, and visiting the archives of cities, hospitals etc... to get data about pass of pilgrims. All routes, north-west, west, and south-west where explored by foot, and in those years there were not the infrastructures of today.

Just as an example, these ladies, with the help of various fellows checked, for pilgrims, the 48 registers called “llibres de malalts rebuts al Espital General de Valencia” between 1543 and 1601 (the golden age of Valencia). Those books are of course hand-written in medieval valencian language. In other places, like Catarroja, they found in account-books assignation for hospitality of pilgrims...

Hi Jean-Luc, This gives some perspective of the amount of work put in by the Amigo groups to open up these new and less travelled caminos that we so enjoy. And of course after the research comes the work of plotting the route and then marking it. A great deal of time and effort. Grateful thanks.
Donovan

 

[JabbaPapa]

Usually when there appears to be a strange detour, if it's not dictated by modern hiking association requirements, it's either that there's a church or some relics or some other religious reason down that way, or that the Ancient or Mediaeval roads infrastructures were built for purposes, trade military political or other, that may no longer exist today. The Camino does still generally follow the old Roman Roads.

 

[gracethepilgrim]

Jean-Luc thanks so much for that detailed explanation. It is wonderful to have some background to this route before I walk. I’m counting down (6 weeks now) until my visit to Valencia and camino departure.