Why no increase in pilgrims on the VdlP?

[MileHighPair]

If my math is correct, these are the numbers through July for the VdlP (from the Pilgrim Office):
2016 = 5424
2017 = 5430
Six more pilgrims in 7 months! This, while the Portugues route increased by thousands!

If everyone was required to walk from Seville, I could see why most people would be reluctant to tackle 1000 km. But since the vast majority of these 5400 folks walked a much shorter Camino, and the fact that the second half of the VdlP is arguably one of the most beautiful landscapes in all of Spain, this really puzzles me.

I hope this is not interpreted as critical of anyone else's choices. It is only meant as a curiosity. Any thoughts?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

How do you know "The vast majority of these 5400 people walked a much shorter Camino? Ourense is not a super know starting point as far as I know.

Plus keep in mind, many may start in Sevilla but not walk all the way to Santiago. I don't know that the stats we see on the website allow for this type of analysis. You would at least need the read out from mass where we are told "3 people on VDLP from Merida" for example. And even then, you wouldn't know over how many trips.

But to answer your questionas to why the numbers may not be increasing on this route, here as a few thoughts that may give a few clues:

1: it's harder, so less accessible/attractive to those prefering shorter days with lots of breaks and luggage service. And I am willing to bet those are the people making the Frances and Portuguese numbers balloon.

2. When the heat sets in, very few go, so the numbers on those months will also not rise much. And since those months are during tourism season that will limit the increase.

3. It has yet to have, as far as I know, had its "Year of VDLP" like the Primitivo just had and the Invierno will have in a couple years.

 

[C clearly]

I think that the statistics may not represent the number of walkers so well. Last year, I walked from Seville to Astorga, where I stopped. Next year I might resume my walk from Madrid and walk through Sahagun and Astorga. What will I choose as my starting point on my credential - Seville or Madrid? Do I want to augment the stats for VDLP or for Camino de Madrid?

Many people on the VDLP make combination trips or walk portions that don't always end in Santiago. These would not be reflected in the statistics.

 

[peregrina2000]

I think that the statistics may not represent the number of walkers so well. Last year, I walked from Seville to Astorga, where I stopped. Next year I might resume my walk from Madrid and walk through Sahagun and Astorga. What will I choose as my starting point on my credential - Seville or Madrid? Do I want to augment the stats for VDLP or for Camino de Madrid?

Many people on the VDLP make combination trips or walk portions that don't always end in Santiago. These would not be reflected in the statistics.

I have thought about those kinds of errors, but unless we think that the reporting errors favor one camino over another, all caminos have some of that going on, so it should all even out in the end, no?

I have been predicting that the Vdlp, Levante, and Invierno would snowball up into popularity, but I've been wrong for the last 8 years, so there must just be something about these routes that I don't see that makes them unattractive to pilgrim hoards. Not that that's a bad thing, of course, but for all these little dying towns, it would be nice to see the crowds spread around a bit more evenly. Not sure how that happens, but it did happen to the Norte, Portugues, and Primitivo!

 

[nycwalking]

I want to walk VdP on next camino. But, I love summer walking yet every site says walking in summer is suicidal. Summer is a time many folks are on vacation: school, work, other. If I walk in spring or fall more people, but.... Alas, my days of 30-40 treks may be over. In 2014, I was 52 walked CF in winter, walked 30 kilometer plus days now and again without problems. Three years later, with a chronic illness diagnosis, 30-40 days may not be possible. Every VdP guidebook, website, or forum post emphasize need to walk those distances for lodging from time to time. Solitude on that route, and infrastructure unlike CF is known to prevail. The reason to walk a year or two ago, now not so much. Some of these points may continue to keep others from this trek. I have four Compostelas so I know camino provides, but walking VdP: I just do not know.

 

[peregrina2000]

I want to walk VdP on next camino. But, I love summer walking yet every site says walking in summer is suicidal. Summer is a time many folks are on vacation: school, work, other. If I walk in spring or fall more people, but.... Alas, my days of 30-40 treks may be over. In 2014, I was 52 walked CF in winter, walked 30 kilometer plus days now and again without problems. Three years later, with a chronic illness diagnosis, 30-40 days may not be possible. Every VdP guidebook, website, or forum post emphasize need to walk those distances for lodging from time to time. Lastly, solitude on that route, pilgrims, and infrastructure unlike CF is known to prevail: reason to walk a year or two ago. Now, not so much. Some of these points may continue to keep others from this trek. I have four Compostelas so I know camino provides, but walking VdP: I just do not know.

Good points, nyc. When I first walked the Norte in 2007, that was the story there as well. Albergues few and far between, but the existing tourist infrastructure was there to allow people to walk shorter distances. Now there are albergues popping up all over, so that is no longer a problem. The Vdlp doesn't have those touristy towns, so a jump start will be much more difficult, but all it would take is a few more albergues strategically placed in some of the more lonely long distances! But of course, why would someone take a risk on opening an albergue till the pilgrim traffic is there -- that darn chicken and egg problem again! But the weather problem cannot be "solved," there is nothing that can make walking the Vdlp in July a fun thing to do. Buen camio, Laurie

 

[C clearly]

I have thought about those kinds of errors, but unless we think that the reporting errors favor one camino over another, all caminos have some of that going on, so it should all even out in the end, no?

True, but it would probably favour the shorter stretches that actually end in Santiago.

Also the shorter season due to the hot summers would make the infrastructure less attractive to investors.

 

[Tigger]

If my math is correct, these are the numbers through July for the VdlP (from the Pilgrim Office):
2016 = 5424
2017 = 5430
Six more pilgrims in 7 months! This, while the Portugues route increased by thousands!

If everyone was required to walk from Seville, I could see why most people would be reluctant to tackle 1000 km. But since the vast majority of these 5400 folks walked a much shorter Camino, and the fact that the second half of the VdlP is arguably one of the most beautiful landscapes in all of Spain, this really puzzles me.

I hope this is not interpreted as critical of anyone else's choices. It is only meant as a curiosity. Any thoughts?

Speaking from experience, IMHO it is simply too hard for the 'average' pilgrim, even the beautiful second half from Salamanca, either route. As I got into such trouble for saying, it goes through a poor part of rural Spain and sadly, the infrastructure is just not there for many people's needs.

 

[hel&scott]

There must be something about these routes that I don't see that makes them unattractive to pilgrim hordes. Not that that's a bad thing, of course....

I think we should make a pact to keep up the stories about how long, hot and lonely this route is to keep it this way... I've got in trouble for encouraging others to do it and saying it's not that hard...

 

[Finisterre]

Off topic maybe... and I'm not quite decided enough to open a new thread.

How many more alberques and where would they need to be to make the route viable for us less fit pilgrims? I ask as there will be people that are thinking of retiring to Spain and wanting to hold on to an international aspect to their lives. Opening an alberque must make for a relaxed yet diverting retirement.

How much money would be needed ? (yes we are considering our retirement options though Rome is my current favourite.)

 

[hel&scott]

How many more alberques and where would they need to be to make the route viable for us less fit pilgrims?

I think it would be extremely difficult for anyone to make a living off the numbers on this route. There are some fabulous tourist albergues set up on this route in amazing buildings in the isolated stretches that are rarely open and a number are in the process of being sold as they haven't been viable.

I can understand the lack of intrastructure in some of the remote areas, but one of the longest days is around the Caparra Arch, which is one of the more promoted elements of this route, but you have to walk 42 kms that day. We did find a marvellous working Roman Therma, tucked into a hamlet 14kms out of Merida and would have happily brought that and retired to Spain ourselves, but I would never have got out of the bath to let others in.

I think one of the reasons for the lack of numbers on this route is that the CF dominates as THE Way of St James, and pilgrims overlook this old Roman Road.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Off topic maybe... and I'm not quite decided enough to open a new thread.

How many more alberques and where would they need to be to make the route viable for us less fit pilgrims? I ask as there will be people that are thinking of retiring to Spain and wanting to hold on to an international aspect to their lives. Opening an alberque must make for a relaxed yet diverting retirement.

How much money would be needed ? (yes we are considering our retirement options though Rome is my current favourite.)

The problem is that VDLP runs through ranches, using the via pecuarias, and that the distance from habited space to habited space, where one might be able to buy a parcel of land are few and far between, unlike on other routes where there are houses here and there, just not albergues. I say "problem" but it's rather a good thing so VDLP doens't turn into yet another zoo.

 

[Bradypus]

I suspect the reasons why so few walk the VDLP are the mirror-image of the reasons that make the Camino Frances so popular. One is easy, straightforward, famous, and requires minimal planning and preparation. The other is none of those things.

 

[Finisterre]

We did find a marvellous working Roman Thema, tucked into a hamlet 14kms out of Merida and would have happily brought that and retired to Spain ourselves, but I would never have got out of the bath to let others in.

What a lovely find.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I am here to tell ya, opening an albergue on the Camino is a LONG way from "a relaxed yet diverting retirement." Unless you're very well-endowed with a million-dollar pension and can hire people to help you run the place, taking care of pilgrims full-time is probably a great way to take a few years off the wrong end of your life!

 

[fraluchi]

[...] taking care of pilgrims full-time is probably a great way to take a few years off the wrong end of your life!

...indeed, statistics for both VdlP and Sanabres do not encourage running pilgrim albergues. The VdlP registered from January to July in 2013 "only" 5'104 pilgrims. This year, with 5'430 during the same period, the increase has been only 6% since 2013. Starters from Ourense were 1'780 in 2015 and 2'006 this year. The Camino de Invierno was "discovered" only a few years ago and the numbers are indeed very small: from 84 in 2015 to 327 this year.
The bulk of these pilgrims walked spread over the months from mid-April to mid-September. That doesn't look like a "business opportunity"

 

[MileHighPair]

Thanks for the responses. It probably is as simple as you all have indicated: summer heat, long stages, less well-known, less infrastructure, and nothing to "jump start" it. Maybe I was trying to over-think it, and I'm totally OK with having an option that is less commercialized. I might do the Frances again (in the off season), but the VdlP is pretty great in my book.
Buen Camino,
Mike.

 

[LTfit]

As others have mentioned, the season is just too short. I love walking in July (Francés, Plata x 2, Levante) and have no problem covering long distances in the blasting heat while carrying 3+ liters of water but there are few that will join me and those that have swore that they will never do it again!

Once upon a time I investigated the possibility of starting up an albergue along the Plata in Andalucía or Extremadura. At that time I looked at the statistics between 2009-2013 and talked to hospitaleros along the route and everyone said that April/May and September/October were the busiest (and most profitable) months. Yes, they have experienced an increase in traffic but nothing compared to the other Caminos. That trend seems to be continuing. Some albergues which started as donativos just couldn't cover their costs and ended up charging a set fee. In order to survive other albergues charge quite a bit more than along a popular route as the Francés or Portugués. It is this or belly up.

I have walked the Plata in June, July, late October and February and we were never more than a handful in the albergues. My daughter walked from Sevilla for a week in January and she never a soul! I'm fine with the small numbers but it is not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[Kitsambler]

The economics of the Le Puy route may be informative here. Less than 15% of those starting from Le Puy are heading to Santiago; the remainder are recreational French walkers. If it were not for the recreational walkers, there would not be sufficient cash flow for the infrastructure the Santiago pilgrims need.

So on this lonely route in Spain, if there is not a tourism baseline, there won't be enough of a business case to keep the remote lodgings a going concern. Is there a way to increase the "marketing"of this route to improve the situation? Maybe even a campground to break up that awful 42 km day?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Maybe even a campground to break up that awful 42 km day?

Which day is this?

 

[C clearly]

If the route from Ventequemada to Oliva de Placencia and/or to Hostal Asturias were to be waymarked with official signs, it would probably help with the perception. There could be recognized options so people could still decide whether to add the extra day, do the Arco or not, a 42-km day or not, and taxi pickup or not.

The problem day by the Embalse de Alcantara could be helped simply by identifying a pickup point with a little shelter, so people would have confidence in arranging a taxi from Cañaveral if they need it.

 

[nycwalking]

If I win the lottery I'll put up two albergues in the long bits, then walk the VdP staying in my albergues along the way.

 

[hel&scott]

If the route from Ventequemada to Oliva de Placencia and/or to Hostal Asturias were to be waymarked with official signs, it would probably help with the perception. There could be recognized options so people could still decide whether to add the extra day, do the Arco or not, a 42-km day or not, and taxi pickup or not.

The problem day by the Embalse de Alcantara could be helped simply by identifying a pickup point with a little shelter, so people would have confidence in arranging a taxi from Cañaveral if they need it.

Good points, I understand the hostel in Olivia is very nice, but the great iron bunker that is the albergue in Embalse is now closed. I plan on taking a bivey bag on my next trip, we used them when we walked from Cartehenga as the stretches there were too long and so had to sleep out, as long as you managed the water situation it was pretty good and took that pressure off worrying about making it into town at the end of the day.

 

[Kitsambler]

... but one of the longest days is around the Caparra Arch, .... but you have to walk 42 kms that day. ...

 

[Tigger]

Off topic maybe... and I'm not quite decided enough to open a new thread.

How many more alberques and where would they need to be to make the route viable for us less fit pilgrims? I ask as there will be people that are thinking of retiring to Spain and wanting to hold on to an international aspect to their lives. Opening an alberque must make for a relaxed yet diverting retirement.

How much money would be needed ? (yes we are considering our retirement options though Rome is my current favourite.)

I just wanted to mention one business option I experienced on the Via de la Plata.
We were walking a long stage, when a car appeared with a personable young couple offering accommodation at their 'Casa Rurale' in the next village. They offered to transport our packs ( I kept mine as I was determined to 'suffer the authenticity ) and offered accommodation in a three bedroom house with kitchen bathroom and laundry facilities at a 'reasonable price'. I thought this very enterprising having walked through ghost towns and took them up on it, my only concern being that maybe we were taking business away from the albergue. My blisters said otherwise and we enjoyed some rural comfort for a night. They also owned the local bar and restaurant so it made sense for them to run this business model.

 

[hel&scott]

You get this, happened to us on the Portugese and Levante, sometimes it's helpful on the long routes and at other times it can be very odd, like all things you need to exercise common sence about strangers offerings on isolated stretches, a sad comment but true.

 

[sharon w]

We walked the VdlP/Sanabres this year. I love the fact that it is quieter. There were still times when albergues were completo! I would hate to see it become like the Frances. However, there were a few new albergues, so maybe enterprising people can see more future pilgrims.

 

[long trails]

Having walked some of the VDLP I am not surprised.

My main issues were the complete lack of other pilgrims, long distances between albergues and unspectacular landscapes. Some of the trails were seriously muddy too, like the worst clingy mud ever. There was also a lot of road walking.

Maybe in the future it will become popular, perhaps when there is better infrastructure.

 

[Deleted member 12253]

No big secret. Tempetures in Seville today 40 degrees. When i walked in spring i was told lots of albergues close july august as its too hot. I found it very hot in march buen camino

 

[HedaP]

If I win the lottery I'll put up two albergues in the long bits, then walk the VdP staying in my albergues along the way.

Can I come too?

 

[nycwalking]

Can I come too?

Yep!

 

[Pangloss]

Having walked some of the VDLP I am not surprised.

My main issues were the complete lack of other pilgrims, long distances between albergues and unspectacular landscapes. Some of the trails were seriously muddy too, like the worst clingy mud ever. There was also a lot of road walking.

Maybe in the future it will become popular, perhaps when there is better infrastructure.

I walked the VdlP in early April to mid-May a couple of years ago, which seemed a pretty good season to do it. Some hot, but not unbearable, days in Andalucia at the start, and a bit of cold and wet in Galicia but mostly shorts and polo shirt weather.
April/May is probably the busiest time for pilgrims so there was always company in the evenings, often the same people for a few days. One would normally expect to encounter a few pilgrims every day during the walk and, if one wanted to, there were enough around that one could find a walking companion.
It does require an element of planning given the relative sparcity of albergues, but this certainly shouldn't put pilgrims off . There were some hard days. My most taxing was undoubtedly Caceres to Canaveral (I decided Casar de Caceres was too soon to stop and there was no room at the embalse de Alcantara ) But again with some forward planning and choosing to stop overnight regularly the walking need not be excessively difficult. And of course with Merida, Caceres, Salamanca and Zamora on the route you don't need an excuse to take several days off from the walk.
The solitude of the VdlP is one of its great attractions. If the numbers remain low, all the better for those fortunate enough to walk this Camino

 

[KinkyOne]

VdlP (classic to Astorga because I've walked Sanabres already) is definitely on my to-do-list. But I have the impression that most people walk it in spring. What about autumn like starting mid September (OK, still quite high temps in the early stages but I'd say definitely more bearable than July/August) and finishing in mid October (hoping to be faster than Autumn Galicia rain season)???
Any thoughts or experiences?

 

[drvnsmiln]

If my math is correct, these are the numbers through July for the VdlP (from the Pilgrim Office):
2016 = 5424
2017 = 5430
Six more pilgrims in 7 months! This, while the Portugues route increased by thousands!

If everyone was required to walk from Seville, I could see why most people would be reluctant to tackle 1000 km. But since the vast majority of these 5400 folks walked a much shorter Camino, and the fact that the second half of the VdlP is arguably one of the most beautiful landscapes in all of Spain, this really puzzles me.

I hope this is not interpreted as critical of anyone else's choices. It is only meant as a curiosity. Any thoughts?

Shhhh!!! Keep it a peaceful, beautiful and somewhat challenging Way. Having walked this route from Seville - Santiago in April/May of this year, I was pleased that there were fewer pilgrims -- so great to "connect" with more or less the same folks each evening, or every few days. Always knew who was ahead of me and who was behind... Perfect.

 

[johns]

I walked as far as Salamanca april may this year.not the time to walk S D C but dont always wont a credencia .

 

[hel&scott]

VdlP (classic to Astorga because I've walked Sanabres already) is definitely on my to-do-list. But I have the impression that most people walk it in spring. What about autumn like starting mid September (OK, still quite high temps in the early stages but I'd say definitely more bearable than July/August) and finishing in mid October (hoping to be faster than Autumn Galicia rain season)???
Any thoughts or experiences?

Apparently it is lovely in spring, but our farm commitment mean we do our northern hemisphere walks in Autumn, we found starting the vdp in September to be good weather wise, and would never advise doing it in July August, oddly rereading our blog I note I moan more about the rain and cold later on then the extreme heat in the early stages...

 

[Rosa TT]

I want to walk VdP on next camino. But, I love summer walking yet every site says walking in summer is suicidal. Summer is a time many folks are on vacation: school, work, other. If I walk in spring or fall more people, but.... Alas, my days of 30-40 treks may be over. In 2014, I was 52 walked CF in winter, walked 30 kilometer plus days now and again without problems. Three years later, with a chronic illness diagnosis, 30-40 days may not be possible. Every VdP guidebook, website, or forum post emphasize need to walk those distances for lodging from time to time. Solitude on that route, and infrastructure unlike CF is known to prevail. The reason to walk a year or two ago, now not so much. Some of these points may continue to keep others from this trek. I have four Compostelas so I know camino provides, but walking VdP: I just do not know.

I walked VdP from Seville to Salamanca March 2017 and there were ways to cut some of the stages shorter with use of taxi services to pick you up along a road and bring you back next morning to continue. While traveling alone, I did manage to link up with about 10 other pilgrims on the same path and felt in good company.
So, it's doable with a little help here and there. Just don't walk summer, and even in Spring, carry an umbrella for shade. Lots of farmland, Roman history, and ham!

 

[naturmenneske]

I walked VdlP in January/February 2016. I like to walk alone and only 20 km +- a day. I had no problem to find albergue or other cheep places to stay. I had one day with rain and the others with sun or clouds. Temperature around 10 - 15 degrees celsius is OK for me. Lovely route in lovely landskape.

 

[HappyHiker1007]

Speaking from experience, IMHO it is simply too hard for the 'average' pilgrim, even the beautiful second half from Salamanca, either route. As I got into such trouble for saying, it goes through a poor part of rural Spain and sadly, the infrastructure is just not there for many people's needs.

I walked vdlp alone in March and April this year and it was fine. I intentionally chose this route for peace and quiet. Some days there were unavoidably long stretches of 38-45km but I definitely wouldn't say it was hard or that there was a lack of infrastructure. It's good that some routes stay quieter so people can choose if they want more or less company as they walk

 

[Lindie Namibia]

Speaking from experience, IMHO it is simply too hard for the 'average' pilgrim, even the beautiful second half from Salamanca, either route. As I got into such trouble for saying, it goes through a poor part of rural Spain and sadly, the infrastructure is just not there for many people's needs.

 

[Lindie Namibia]

Hope this not the wrong place to ask my question...I'm travelling from Namibia in two weeks to walk the Sanabria from Verin/ Laza. Walked the CF in May 2016; which I found very easy and comfortable. Now I'm worried about the heat / difficulty / long stretches that I read about..is this also true for the route closer to Santiago?
Should I worry?? I really dont want to meet with the crowds on CF..last year we were so lucky to walk right at the beginning of the season..
Any advice?

 

[Bradypus]

I walked the Sanabres from A Gudiña this spring. You do not need to worry about stages being very long or a great shortage of food or water at that end of the route. Quite straightforward. Temperatures may be another matter. Something of a heatwave at the moment in much of Europe. No one can tell for sure what the weather will be like two weeks away.

 

[Lindie Namibia]

Thanks a lot for the reply! I think I'll face up to the heat...used to African sun. We live in the Namib desert...haha!

 

[High Endeavours]

I liked the Plata just as I found it in May/June 2014, and I'm very pleased to hear that it hasn't changed a whole lot. It was a beautiful, peaceful experience with flowers everywhere and the local population genuinely pleased to see a solo pilgrim. It was the best!! As others have suggested I think it's important that some of these less travelled routes remain more remote and less serviced for those who are looking for this type of long distance experience. Last year one of the walks I journeyed was the Portuguese from Coimbra. I respect that many folks love this route, but I found it much too busy in September and I was pleased to head north afterwards to walk the last 10 stages of the Le Puy GR65 into SJPDP in late October when it was extremely quiet. It helped me to regain my balance and to find my happy place before heading home for the winter. This year I walked a less travelled road once again, this time in Japan. While The 88 Temple walk was culturally unique it shared much with the more remote routes in Spain...the same, and yet so very different. Next spring I'll return to Europe to walk the Arles GR653...and who knows where I'll go from there That's half the fun!!

 

[Tigger]

I liked the Plata just as I found it in May/June 2014, and I'm very pleased to hear that it hasn't changed a whole lot. It was a beautiful, peaceful experience with flowers everywhere and the local population genuinely pleased to see a solo pilgrim. It was the best!! As others have suggested I think it's important that some of these less travelled routes remain more remote and less serviced for those who are looking for this type of long distance experience. Last year one of the walks I journeyed was the Portuguese from Coimbra. I respect that many folks love this route, but I found it much too busy in September and I was pleased to head north afterwards to walk the last 10 stages of the Le Puy GR65 into SJPDP in late October when it was extremely quiet. It helped me to regain my balance and to find my happy place before heading home for the winter. This year I walked a less travelled road once again, this time in Japan. While The 88 Temple walk was culturally unique it shared much with the more remote routes in Spain...the same, and yet so very different. Next spring I'll return to Europe to walk the Arles GR653...and who knows where I'll go from there That's half the fun!!

I share those thoughts, however the relative poverty in parts of the VDLP compared to the other Caminos where pilgrimage brought more wealth and infrastructure bothered me. To think that the whim of few solo walkers to keep a Camino poor and for the few intrepid walkers, also bothered me.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I share those thoughts, however the relative poverty in parts of the VDLP compared to the other Caminos where pilgrimage brought more wealth and infrastructure bothered me. To think that the whim of few solo walkers to keep a Camino poor and for the few intrepid walkers, also bothered me.

Again, what poverty?

 

[Tigger]

Again, what poverty?

The poverty that closes villages, with people losing their traditional homes and communal infrastructure, the poverty that makes farms scarcely viable especially after drought, the poverty of both individuals, villages, communities and regions in the areas of Spain which were mentioned in the articles I posted referring to and referencing Spanish rural poverty. Parts of the Via de la Plata passes through them.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

And another pair in peril on VDLP as they walk in summer:

http://www.radiocaminodesantiago.co...escatados-por-golpe-de-calor-en-castilblanco/

 

[C clearly]

The poverty that closes villages, with people losing their traditional homes and communal infrastructure,

It is a problem in much of Spain, not just the VDLP. Think of those abandoned buildings and hamlets on the Camino Frances where only a few old people live. Cirueña would be the extreme example. On the other hand, tourism is one of the major industries in the country, bringing "prosperity" to some regions while driving up prices so local people cannot live in these areas either.

I don't deny that poverty exists in Spain or in the region where you walked. However, your continued focus on the VDLP as if it is different from other camino routes, is perhaps misleading and that is the main thing I am disagreeing with. The causes of poverty are very complex and the solutions go beyond our pilgrimages. That enters into the arena of political discussion.

To think that the whim of few solo walkers to keep a Camino poor and for the few intrepid walkers, also bothered me.

This interpretation of our comments bothers me a lot.

 

[Bradypus]

It is a problem in much of Spain, not just the VDLP. Think of those abandoned buildings and hamlets on the Camino Frances where only a few old people live.

Far fewer abandoned buildings and ghost villages than there used to be. The impact of the Camino Frances over the past thirty years on the narrow strip that it passes through has been extraordinary. The prosperity may not be widely or evenly distributed but many villages have been transformed: places like Foncebadon which literally had only one resident and many tumbledown buildings, or El Acebo which had a single-room bar and no accommodation at all for pilgrims.

 

[Tigger]

It is a problem in much of Spain, not just the VDLP. Think of those abandoned buildings and hamlets on the Camino Frances where only a few old people live. Cirueña would be the extreme example. On the other hand, tourism is one of the major industries in the country, bringing "prosperity" to some regions while driving up prices so local people cannot live in these areas either.

I don't deny that poverty exists in Spain or in the region where you walked. However, your continued focus on the VDLP as if it is different from other camino routes, is perhaps misleading and that is the main thing I am disagreeing with. The causes of poverty are very complex and the solutions go beyond our pilgrimages. That enters into the arena of political discussion.


This interpretation of our comments bothers me a lot.

My 'focus' would be apparent because apart from the last leg of the Camino Frances ( which is a good example of tourism boosting a local or regional economy) the VDLP is all that I have walked. I gave no other opinion about anywhere else in Spain except to quote citation on the subject where it is stated that this has been a phenomenon in Spain since, and even before the Franco years.
As to the other matter, can you deny that there were several comments wishing for the status quo of poverty if it meant the VDLP stayed 'undiscovered' for their enjoyment? My initial point and hope was that in some way the areas of the VDLP could also benefit from either the 'tourism' benefits or another interesting phenomenon known as Neo -Ruralism which I noticed on the Camino Frances. This is where, in villages where they are close enough either for commuters from larger towns and cities or 'weekend hobby farmers' that the young retired or foreigners buy up the ghost properties and renovate them. Sadly much of the VDLP on long stretches is a bit too remote.
I must say I am bemused at the way my comments have been perceived, however I agree that this discussion may not be able to go much further though discussion of the wonderful areas that we walk through must always be of interest. Thankyou for your input.

 

[Tigger]

And another pair in peril on VDLP as they walk in summer:

http://www.radiocaminodesantiago.co...escatados-por-golpe-de-calor-en-castilblanco/

and another death
http://www.radiocaminodesantiago.com/muere-un-peregrino-aleman-en-almaden-de-la-plata/

I suppose many pilgrims only have European summer holidays available for their Camino, however is the first half of the Via de la Plata really a sensible choice? Is it ignorance or arrogance that pilgrims think that they would be immune to extreme heat, lack of shade and often adequate fluids?
Should there perhaps be a warning system for walking pilgrims with advisories at places where celos are given?
Don't they close some of the Pyrenees in bad weather in winter?

 

[C clearly]

can you deny that there were several comments wishing for the status quo of poverty if it meant the VDLP stayed 'undiscovered' for their enjoyment?

Yes, I would deny that those posts were intended in that way. On an internet forum, we can quickly escalate to unpleasant discussions if we don't give the benefit of the doubt on many occasions. I really do expect that we have similar sympathies.

 

[Tigger]

Yes, I would deny that those posts were intended in that way. On an internet forum, we can quickly escalate to unpleasant discussions if we don't give the benefit of the doubt on many occasions. I really do expect that we have similar sympathies.

Yes, we do, I think.
I just commented on the cycling on the VDPL thread.
What do you think?

 

[MileHighPair]

and another death
http://www.radiocaminodesantiago.com/muere-un-peregrino-aleman-en-almaden-de-la-plata/

I suppose many pilgrims only have European summer holidays available for their Camino, however is the first half of the Via de la Plata really a sensible choice? Is it ignorance or arrogance that pilgrims think that they would be immune to extreme heat, lack of shade and often adequate fluids?
Should there perhaps be a warning system for walking pilgrims with advisories at places where celos are given?
Don't they close some of the Pyrenees in bad weather in winter?

In case someone thinks this is recent event, the death announcement was 29 days ago. Not to minimize it any way, just to be sure folks know the article is from early July.

 

[Tigger]

In case someone thinks this is recent event, the death announcement was 29 days ago. Not to minimize it any way, just to be sure folks know the article is from early July.

Thanks, I am not sure we discussed it then. It was just to put the recent events into perspective.

 

[hel&scott]

I suppose many pilgrims only have European summer holidays available for their Camino, however is the first half of the Via de la Plata really a sensible choice? Is it ignorance or arrogance that pilgrims think that they would be immune to extreme heat, lack of shade and often adequate fluids?
Should there perhaps be a warning system for walking pilgrims with advisories at places where celos are given?

It's not just in Spain that this sort of thing happens, I am constantly amazed by ill equiped overseas hikers strolling along some of NZ Great Walks, I think it's the name as these "walks" are mountain tracks where the weather and conditions can change dramaticly with deadly consequences. Is it our modern living that makes us more arrogant thinking that we have tamed our environment? Mother Nature can be beautiful and dangerous and should be respected at all times.

 

[Tigger]

It's not just in Spain that this sort of thing happens, I am constantly amazed by ill equiped overseas hikers strolling along some of NZ Great Walks, I think it's the name as these "walks" are mountain tracks where the weather and conditions can change dramaticly with deadly consequences. Is it our modern living that makes us more arrogant thinking that we have tamed our environment? Mother Nature can be beautiful and dangerous and should be respected at all times.

SO true!

I live in what might seem a very benign (and stunningly beautiful) environment on the Northern Beaches of Sydney which is a tourist area. If you have ever watched the TV show 'Bondi Rescue' you will be aware that tourists are often totally unaware of beach safety, ignoring flagged areas, can't swim, don't understand rips current and undertows and putting themselves and others in grave danger.
It is also a little known fact that 'Rock fishing' is THE most dangerous sport( in terms of deaths) in Australia. Many such deaths have sadly happened on my doorstep.

 

[Tigger]

It was mentioned on this forum. The couple had been on numerous caminos before, the 65 year old husband died of sudden cardiac arrest, not because of a heatstroke or lack of water. There is not much to discuss. Sadly, such events can and do happen throughout the year on any camino, with a population of nearly 300,000 persons ranging in age from 0-90+ years of age.

How sad, yes of course.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Thanks, I am not sure we discussed it then. It was just to put the recent events into perspective.

When I read Tigger's announcement of another dead German walker on VDLP I was afraid it was one of the two people rescued two days ago. Glad that is not the case.

But something needs to be done about this route in scorching temps, as has been done for the Napoleon route in winter.

 

[hel&scott]

It was mentioned on this forum. The couple had been on numerous caminos before, the 65 year old husband died of sudden cardiac arrest, not because of a heatstroke or lack of water. There is not much to discuss. Sadly, such events can and do happen throughout the year on any camino, with a population of nearly 300,000 persons ranging in age from 0-90+ years of age.

Sad yes, my dads old climbing mate died while they were on Tongarero crossing a couple of years back, his middle name was Tama and the pair of them had gone up to the Tama Lakes which was a favourite walk of theirs, Jack sat down and that was that. Wal said he wouldn't have minded going that way himself.

 

[amancio]

My two cents from an Andalusian who has only walked Guillena-Salamanca. I think VdlP does not grow because

1) Seasonality. The time of the year is April-May, long days, not too hot, amazing blooming countryside. Summer time is too hot for making it an enjoy
2) Length. It requires 40 days on average, not everybody has the time
3) Solitude. Not everybody enjoys it
4) Looong distances between towns. Castilblanco-Almadén, Casar-Cañaveral (how I miss that amazing albergue by the lake!!!!) Carcaboso-Aldeanueva are demanding stages with nothing in between. I, for one, LOVE having some stages like that in between.
5) Compostelas. Most pilgrims in VdlP are experienced pilgrims, they may not simply bother to ask for the Compostela in Santiago. I do not get the compostela any more.
6) Not everybody makes it to Santiago, it is long enough.

This said, I am hoping to move on, and do Salamanca-Santiago soon (perhaps September?)

To me, living only 200 miles away from Seville, it is a MUST to walk a few days in the dehesa every springtime, from Castilblanco to Zafra or so. It is an out-of-this-world experience; I have breakfast in Granada, lunch in Guillena, then dinner in Castilblanco sharing a table with Australians, Koreans, Brazilians... it is just amazing!!!

 

[hel&scott]

To me, living only 200 miles away from Seville, it is a MUST to walk a few days in the dehesa every springtime, from Castilblanco to Zafra or so. It is an out-of-this-world experience; I have breakfast in Granada, lunch in Guillena, then dinner in Castilblanco sharing a table with Australians, Koreans, Brazilians... it is just amazing!!!

You are right in the points you raise, and lucky to live so close to this amazing route that you get the chance to travel it during different seasons and see all that it brings. Sadly we have to travel literally half way around the world to walk on the Vpd, but it is worth it and I am looking forward to being back on this way next year. I hope do persist and complete the section from Salamanca, the route changes in nature from there but it is still lovely.

 

[Donna Sch]

But the weather problem cannot be "solved," there is nothing that can make walking the Vdlp in July a fun thing to do. Buen camio, Laurie

It's better than doing training walks during the Wet Season in Darwin! June/July in Spain was lovely

Shhhh!!! Keep it a peaceful, beautiful and somewhat challenging Way. Having walked this route from Seville - Santiago in April/May of this year, I was pleased that there were fewer pilgrims -- so great to "connect" with more or less the same folks each evening, or every few days. Always knew who was ahead of me and who was behind... Perfect.

And don't you love being able to identify people by their footprints?

 

[MileHighPair]

Donna, your comment about footprints really brings back memories! In 2016 we followed James (a fellow pilgrim, not the Saint) for several days, seeing his size 14 Keen prints in the wet paths. In fact leaving Zamora on the wrong path, his prints made us so confident that we ignored other indications, only to find out that he had also mistakenly chosen the route to Portugal earlier that morning! This year there were several pilgrims I was able to identify by their boot prints. This is a difference between the Frances and other Caminos that I had obviously noticed, but never actually identified. Thanks!

 

[Joaquin Zenzes]

Hello, on April 10 I started my first camino straight away from Sevilla and "pausing" in Salamanca. My decision to take the VdlP was mainly due to two reasons: one - I do not see any sense in walking in an indian file on the camino frances (latest numbers 280 000+!!) and knowing already Andalusia and the Extremadura the vast landscape and the solitude was exactly what I was looking for and got it. Also my fellow pilgrims (may be a dozen or so) agreed that the "walking alone against the horizon" is exactly what makes this route so remarkable!
As I had to interrupt my journey in Salamanca and thus already preparing for the next stretch in April next year, I am really wondering about your statement "....the second half of the VdlP is arguably one of the most beautiful landscapes in all of Spain...". For me Andalusia and the Extremadura are really the most impressive landscapes down there on the peninsula.
Knowing I am selfish, but I really do hope that the number of pilgrims on the VdlP stays low and isn't polluted by tourism taking taxis and guided tours as shown on a tv program "abendjournal" in the German ZDF on Sept. 21 describing the situation between Saria and Santiago. This report was so scary that for sure I will never venture the camino frances or camino norte.