I think an apology is in order...

[ivar]

Dear all,

Over the last few weeks, some of the mods have done some detective work on how the forum software work, and we have discovered that we (the mods and me) have not been using it in the right way.. let me explain.

When a user has done something that we (the mods and me) consider breaking the forum rules, we might delete that post and add a short notice that is sent to the person posting about why this was done. The user interface for the mods does not clearly say that this message with the explanation is sent to the user, but it is implied (it is a bit vague, but that is how we interpreted how the system worked). We have now, after some very good detective work by some of the mods, found out that this message is actually not sent and that the user does not get any feedback for why the particular post was deleted.

This is of course not good.

This might have lead to the user making the same mistake again (not knowing/understanding why the first post was deleted), and we (mods) thinking "here he/she goes again even if er have left him/her know that this is not allowed". This can, as you can see, escalate and end up in points being given and users getting angry. All because of the miscommunication... we thought users were informed of why things got deleted, but they did not get any message.

So... I wanted to let everyone know that I am sorry for this.. and from now on we will make sure that a user if properly informed when he/she steps over the line, hoping that this will not lead to a repeat "line-crossing".

As someone said in a recent mod-conversation we had: "Let's optimize for happiness on the forum". This means that we might be strict and delete some things, for the good of the forum as a whole, but at least we should let the user know why this was done.

Stay safe everyone & happy camino planning!
Ivar

 

[A Kerryman]

Dear all,

Over the last few weeks, some of the mods have done some detective work on how the forum software work, and we have discovered that we (the mods and me) have not been using it in the right way.. let me explain.

When a user has done something that we (the mods and me) consider breaking the forum rules, we might delete that post and add a short notice that is sent to the person posting about why this was done. The user interface for the mods does not clearly say that this message with the explanation is sent to the user, but it is implied (it is a bit vague, but that is how we interpreted how the system worked). We have now, after some very good detective work by some of the mods, found out that this message is actually not sent and that the user does not get any feedback for why the particular post was deleted.

This is of course not good.

This might have lead to the user making the same mistake again (not knowing/understanding why the first post was deleted), and we (mods) thinking "here he/she goes again even if er have left him/her know that this is not allowed". This can, as you can see, escalate and end up in points being given and users getting angry. All because of the miscommunication... we thought users were informed of why things got deleted, but they did not get any message.

So... I wanted to let everyone know that I am sorry for this.. and from now on we will make sure that a user if properly informed when he/she steps over the line, hoping that this will not lead to a repeat "line-crossing".

As someone said in a recent mod-conversation we had: "Let's optimize for happiness on the forum". This means that we might be strict and delete some things, for the good of the forum as a whole, but at least we should let the user know why this was done.

Stay safe everyone & happy camino planning!
Ivar

Is there any method ? Where a poster who asks a question that has been asked a thousand times before for example Shoes or boots , sleeping bag or silk sheets be referred to the search engine to read older posts .
Thanks for all the invaluable work the forum does Ivar .

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Good stewardship by good people. That's what makes this community so successful. Thank you, moderators. Thank you, Ivar.

 

[wayfarer]

Is there any method ? Where a poster who asks a question that has been asked a thousand times before for example Shoes or boots , sleeping bag or silk sheets be referred to the search engine to read older posts .
Thanks for all the invaluable work the forum does Ivar .

Some members already do this, refer the op to the search engine, but in the spirit of the forum I think its a good thing to give the information again, especially to a new member. A fresh debate always gives new info to everyone and it might not be easy for new members who are not tech savvy to negotiate the forum at first. As the forum versions change and are updated we are also learning as can be seen from Ivar's post above.

 

[BarbaraW]

I and so many others value this forum, particularly at the moment. Thinking about how much work you and the mods do to maintain it has prompted me to renew my subscription.
Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 76633]

This can, as you can see, escalate and end up in points being given and users getting angry

But it is a forum for views/information. No point in getting angry, is there?

 

[Isca-camigo]

Without knowing individual details( and not wanting to) several well known and posters have left or been deleted in the last few months, if this has arisen out of this situation I hope they are encouraged to come back on.

Some members already do this, refer the op to the search engine, but in the spirit of the forum I think its a good thing to give the information again, especially to a new member. A fresh debate always gives new info to everyone and it might not be easy for new members who are not tech savvy to negotiate the forum at first. As the forum versions change and are updated we are also learning as can be seen from Ivar's post above.

I agree with this, something fresh and new is added to questions which have been asked many times. I could say to the question of 'why do people ask the same question many times' it has been answered many times just check the forum Search

 

[wayfarer]

Without knowing individual details( and not wanting to) several well known and posters have left or been deleted in the last few months, if this has arisen out of this situation I hope they are encouraged to come back on.

The short answer to this is no, this was not the reason.

 

[Isca-camigo]

Thank you.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I'm wondering if I actually was assigned demerit points. What page shows points assessed a member? The reason why I ask is below.

Not too long ago I got a notice that one of my posts was deleted by a moderator. I think it mentioned in which thread but I don't remember the notice saying who the moderator was or the reason or even any portion of my post. It definitely didn't mention any demerit points. I finally came to the conclusion that my post was in reply to someone else's whose post had been deleted (likely for something that would have brought up a political debate). The moderator probably just wanted to wipe the thread completely clean of the offending post.

 

[wayfarer]

We normally delete any posts that refer to or quote a deleted post. Moderation 101

 

[Kanga]

Yes, @Rick of Rick and Peg that was quite likely the case. Hopefully now you will get a message telling you the post was deleted because it referred to a deleted post - or something similar.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

We normally delete any posts that refer to or quote a deleted post. Moderation 101

Thank you (and @Kanga later) for the confirmation. But I'm still curious about what page shows points assessed a member. I assume it is somewhere in a member's pages and not publically available.

 

[Turga]

Thank you (and @Kanga later) for the confirmation. But I'm still curious about what page shows points assessed a member. I assume it is somewhere in a member's pages and not publically available.

On the 'Forum Rule' page it says: If you see that any of your posts has been moderated, please check your current Point Balance on your profile page (under your avatar).

That page is quite old so maybe it is different today?

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

On the 'Forum Rule' page it says: If you see that any of your posts has been moderated, please check your current Point Balance on your profile page (under your avatar).

That page is quite old so maybe it is different today?

Thank you. I have seen the point balance accounting before but I don't remember if my balance was more than one (I early on posted a bullring picture (but it wasn't of a bull fight)). It may have showed up because of that and otherwise was not shown if no points were assessed. Or maybe it showed up with a total of 0. At any rate I don't see any points on my profile page now.

 

[trecile]

Yes, @Rick of Rick and Peg that was quite likely the case. Hopefully now you will get a message telling you the post was deleted because it referred to a deleted post - or something similar.

I have received such messages in the past.

 

[C clearly]

Members may be receiving the information about deletions, but they have not been receiving the warning messages (which are separate) that often explain a little more about the issues and why there are repeated deletions.

This might have lead to the user making the same mistake again (not knowing/understanding why the first post was deleted), and we (mods) thinking "here he/she goes again even if er have left him/her know that this is not allowed". This can, as you can see, escalate and end up in points being given and users getting angry. All because of the miscommunication..

When members choose to leave the forum, or participate less, they don't usually give detailed reasons. While the software issues are not the key reasons, poor communication is rarely a good thing, as Ivar points out above!

the 'Forum Rule' page it says:

That page needs updating. Members can't see the warning points, and that is one of the reasons we need to be more careful in communicating them

 

[henrythedog]

We normally delete any posts that refer to or quote a deleted post. Moderation 101

The first rule of fight club ...

 

[henrythedog]

Dear all,

Over the last few weeks, some of the mods have done some detective work on how the forum software work, and we have discovered that we (the mods and me) have not been using it in the right way.. let me explain.

When a user has done something that we (the mods and me) consider breaking the forum rules, we might delete that post and add a short notice that is sent to the person posting about why this was done. The user interface for the mods does not clearly say that this message with the explanation is sent to the user, but it is implied (it is a bit vague, but that is how we interpreted how the system worked). We have now, after some very good detective work by some of the mods, found out that this message is actually not sent and that the user does not get any feedback for why the particular post was deleted.

This is of course not good.

This might have lead to the user making the same mistake again (not knowing/understanding why the first post was deleted), and we (mods) thinking "here he/she goes again even if er have left him/her know that this is not allowed". This can, as you can see, escalate and end up in points being given and users getting angry. All because of the miscommunication... we thought users were informed of why things got deleted, but they did not get any message.

So... I wanted to let everyone know that I am sorry for this.. and from now on we will make sure that a user if properly informed when he/she steps over the line, hoping that this will not lead to a repeat "line-crossing".

As someone said in a recent mod-conversation we had: "Let's optimize for happiness on the forum". This means that we might be strict and delete some things, for the good of the forum as a whole, but at least we should let the user know why this was done.

Stay safe everyone & happy camino planning!
Ivar

I actually preferred it in the good old days when the process didn’t work but none of the offenders (including myself) thought it wise to bring it to your attention.

On the balance of probability (with Rule 2 in mind) I’d better start subscribing on a weekly basis as the chances of me surviving a full year are remote.

 

[Zordmot]

Is there any method ? Where a poster who asks a question that has been asked a thousand times before for example Shoes or boots , sleeping bag or silk sheets be referred to the search engine to read older posts .
Thanks for all the invaluable work the forum does Ivar .

I think its important to remember that we were all "inquirers at square one" at some point and thankfuly there were patient people here and elsewhere that not only tolerated our newbie questions but took them seriously and thus nurtured our interest in the Camino.

 

[trecile]

I think its important to remember that we were all "inquirers at square one" at some point and thankfuly there were patient people here and elsewhere that not only tolerated our newbie questions but took them seriously and thus nurtured our interest in the Camino.

Also, one doesn't have to read or comment on every thread. Just read the ones that interest you.

 

[Isca-camigo]

I joined the forum under a previous Avatar in 2010, I realised after asking many questions they had been asked before, thankfully the posters were patient with me and it allowed me to develop my questions and knowledge from their experience. To me the replies that refer people only to the search function diminish our interaction and the potentials from it.

 

[MichelleO]

Is there any method ? Where a poster who asks a question that has been asked a thousand times before for example Shoes or boots , sleeping bag or silk sheets be referred to the search engine to read older posts .
Thanks for all the invaluable work the forum does Ivar .

Be patient and answer the question. It is, after all, the first time this person had asked the question. Every forum user wants a conversation. That's why they're here and not on Google.

 

[natefaith]

Be patient and answer the question. It is, after all, the first time this person had asked the question. Every forum user wants a conversation. That's why they're here and not on Google.

That's a good point, Michelle - many of us are seeking connection and conversation, and sometimes it takes a bit of guts to even post a first question. Being patient and making it easy for someone to participate adds a lot of hospitality and warm community to our Forum culture.

 

[Barbara]

Well, you haven't actually banned me yet, so you must be reasonable people. But yeah, a sticky saying please use the search engine first would maybe be a good idea.

 

[nycwalking]

Thank you: Ivar, mods, and all.

Clarity is so nice.

 

[peregrina2000]

Until I became a moderator (after about 12 years on the forum), I had no idea there was such a thing as warnings, moderation, banning, etc. That’s probably true for most of the current members, so for most people the surprise of Ivar’s announcement was not that no one was seeing their warning points or the wording of the warnings, but that there even was such a thing! That means that for the vast majority of forum members nothing at all has changed.

But for those who have gotten points in the past, or who seem to have a penchant for collecting points, we are hoping that the new system of communication will decrease whatever misunderstandings may have arisen because of people being put on moderation (or worse) without even knowing they had received points.

But the world and the forum would be a whole lot happier place if forum members would resist the urge to post things that are likely to get points — politics, religion, rudeness, public criticism of moderators (we know we are not perfect, and we are happy to hear criticism and disagreement from forum members, but PRIVATELY please), etc. So what I am really hoping is that now that we know that people will be getting a message about their points, the need to give points will actually decrease dramatically!

 

[VNwalking]

On the 'Forum Rule' page it says: If you see that any of your posts has been moderated, please check your current Point Balance on your profile page (under your avatar)

I've mostly been oblivious to all this, and now when I go looking, there doesn't seem to be any such place. Where is the points balance?

 

[C clearly]

I've mostly been oblivious to all this, and now when I go looking, there doesn't seem to be any such place. Where is the points balance?

See my post #17, last paragraph. . That page is wrong and needs updating. The points balance is not available to members. It will have to be communicated differently.

 

[VNwalking]

See my post #17, last paragraph

I read that and misunderstood that you meant general points balances, as opposed to one's own.
I get it now...thanks for your patience @C clearly .

 

[Robo]

Thanks @ivar . I've got into trouble a couple of times over the years and never quite understood why. Now I understand why Not that I plan on getting into trouble any more of course!

 

[ivar]

Regarding how to see your points, the forum does not have this feature... I did have a plugin that showed this in an earlier version of the forum, but this plugin is not compatible with the version we are running now.. so no luck.

If in doubt, ask a mod, we can check this.

I will update the forum rules...

 

[Marbe2]

Please, explain, do we get a badge or a sticker for collecting points?
I have gotten a couple of posts removed one for a humorous cartoon post, which did not refer to any particular politician. Yet, I have seen on the same thread others cartoons which were previously posted from a specific country that was not removed? I could honestly care less about points, because, I know when I post that I am not intending to injure or insult anyone, but the process is sometimes confusing?!

Ivar and mentors, I am not sure what “optimize”for happiness means? Seriously, and respectfully, does that mean to keep the customer happy? Do we not respectfully, discuss many topics, with very different perspectives?
There are many unhappy posts....about numerous subjects. There is much affirmation, and sometimes respectful confrontation. These responses are not necessarily optimized for happiness. However, as long as they are done respectfully are we not better serving the Camino community?

I do thank each member for the time you give to assisting me and other members.
It has been enormously helpful and inspiring.

 

[C clearly]

I am not sure what “optimize”for happiness means?

I think that was a good natured but casual statement of intent. Something that seems a good reminder but not to be taken literally.

As the newest moderator, I am aware of the difficulties of applying any set of standards consistently. I am also aware of how far and fast an open thread would go downhill, if we were to start debating the specifics of moderator decisions.

We are trying to do what you suggest. We succeed only imperfectly.

The rule against open discussion of moderation is quite firm. I appreciate and am happy that Ivar "violated" the rule when he started this thread. However, further discussion is best done by PM.

 

[wayfarer]

Please, explain, do we get a badge or a sticker for collecting points?
I have gotten a couple of posts removed. one for a humorous cartoon post, which did not refer to any particular politician. Yet, I have seen on the same thread others cartoons which were previously posted from a specific country that was not removed? I could honestly care less about points, because, I know when I post that I am not intending to injure or insult anyone, but the process is sometimes confusing?!

Now that we are aware of the shortcomings of the deleting system as explained above by Ivar you should now be informed why a post has been deleted, if not or if you do not agree with the delete decision please contact a mod or Ivar by PM.
I think the term "optimising for happiness" referred to the mods being more aware of how the system software now works and to try not to upset members by deleting posts without explanation.
Hope this helps.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

Dear all,

Over the last few weeks, some of the mods have done some detective work on how the forum software work, and we have discovered that we (the mods and me) have not been using it in the right way.. let me explain.

When a user has done something that we (the mods and me) consider breaking the forum rules, we might delete that post and add a short notice that is sent to the person posting about why this was done. The user interface for the mods does not clearly say that this message with the explanation is sent to the user, but it is implied (it is a bit vague, but that is how we interpreted how the system worked). We have now, after some very good detective work by some of the mods, found out that this message is actually not sent and that the user does not get any feedback for why the particular post was deleted.

This is of course not good.

This might have lead to the user making the same mistake again (not knowing/understanding why the first post was deleted), and we (mods) thinking "here he/she goes again even if er have left him/her know that this is not allowed". This can, as you can see, escalate and end up in points being given and users getting angry. All because of the miscommunication... we thought users were informed of why things got deleted, but they did not get any message.

So... I wanted to let everyone know that I am sorry for this.. and from now on we will make sure that a user if properly informed when he/she steps over the line, hoping that this will not lead to a repeat "line-crossing".

As someone said in a recent mod-conversation we had: "Let's optimize for happiness on the forum". This means that we might be strict and delete some things, for the good of the forum as a whole, but at least we should let the user know why this was done.

Stay safe everyone & happy camino planning!
Ivar

Thank you for all the Work done by you and the Moderators.

Question: Is it possible to quarantine any offending posts over deletion? As with your lengthy explanation, there may be a lot of good information contained in a post that is all lost due to as little as a phrase.

With proper notice a post has an opportunity to repair the offense but the Forum retains valuable information, possibly. And the offending poster learns from the specific offense.

 

[C clearly]

Is it possible to quarantine any offending posts over deletion? As with your lengthy explanation, there may be a lot of good information contained in a post that is all lost due to as little as a phrase.

Good question.

There is a perennial discussion about the merits and problems with editing vs deleting. Sometimes a small edit (with note) is useful and we do it. However, we also want forum members to take responsibility rather than putting the work on moderators to "fix" their posts. Sometimes a moderator will even copy the deleted post and send it to the author, saying they are welcome to repost if they remove the offending bits. However, again this puts the onus on the moderator, so it is not our "normal" practice. It would only be done when it seems obvious that the violation was unintended and there is really good material otherwise.

Recently a thread was deleted but, because there was very good discussion of an important topic, we recreated a new thread with the useful posts. However, that is a fair amount of work (maybe OK during slow pandemic times, but not when things pick up), so we would not normally want to do that.

 

[peregrina2000]

Please, explain, do we get a badge or a sticker for collecting points?
I have gotten a couple of posts removed one for a humorous cartoon post, which did not refer to any particular politician. Yet, I have seen on the same thread others cartoons which were previously posted from a specific country that was not removed? I could honestly care less about points, because, I know when I post that I am not intending to injure or insult anyone, but the process is sometimes confusing?!

Ivar and mentors, I am not sure what “optimize”for happiness means? Seriously, and respectfully, does that mean to keep the customer happy? Do we not respectfully, discuss many topics, with very different perspectives?
There are many unhappy posts....about numerous subjects. There is much affirmation, and sometimes respectful confrontation. These responses are not necessarily optimized for happiness. However, as long as they are done respectfully are we not better serving the Camino community?

I do thank each member for the time you give to assisting me and other members.
It has been enormously helpful and inspiring.

I don’t know if having various moderator opinions expressed on these topics will be helpful or confusing, but it will at least serve the important purpose of letting you know that we are not a uniform monolith, we are different people with different sensibilties operating in different time zones. So when one post gets deleted, and a similar one doesn’t, it is likely a combination of those factors that explains what may appear to members to be inconsistencies or preferences. Of course, the report button is always there for a member to express these concerns — for instance, Marbe, you could have privately reported those undeleted cartoons and explained what you saw as an inconsistency. I don’t see that as a challenge to my integrity as a moderator, it is just a potentially helpful observation that may allow us to see things from a different perspective and help us to achieve a uniform “touch” with so many different challenges. We don’t always agree with member reports, and don’t always take the action the member asks for, but I think I speak for all of us when I say that we really appreciate the reports and benefit from having so many more eyes on the ground than if we mods were the only ones keeping a look out.

For me, optimizing or maximizing happiness on the forum means not that we hope everyone will agree with everyone else, but that we hope that the comments and disagreements will be respectful and will not challenge the good faith of the poster. I am much more likely to be “happy” if I can learn from compassionate responses why people may have misinterpreted or disagreed with what I said than if I am told repeatedly that I am ____________ (fill in your favorite negative adjective here).

And Marbe, I think but am not sure that you are asking about the purpose and effect of collecting points (if I am just rehashing familiar ground for you, sorry). Points are given when a member seems to ignore cautions and warnings that he/she is crossing the line and is violating the rules. If you “collect” enough of them you will be put on moderation, which means that a moderator has to approve any post you want to post for a certain period of time. If you really collect a lot of points, you will be banned for a month or some other time. The apology that started this whole thread was because we realized that most members never learned that they had received points and never knew that we were trying to caution them to rein in their language and abide by the rules. Lack of communication breeds misunderstandings and conflict, as became evident when we took a look at the warning system and how it operates.

Having a thread deleted is not necessarily going to result in points (we don’t keep track, but I will bet that the overwhelming majority of deleted posts do not trigger pointes). But the converse is usually true — if you get points, some of your posts will have been deleted for rule violations.

Cabin fever is one big contributor to unhappiness on the forum, that’s for sure, but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about that.

 

[Marbe2]

I don’t know if having various moderator opinions expressed on these topics will be helpful or confusing, but it will at least serve the important purpose of letting you know that we are not a uniform monolith, we are different people with different sensibilties operating in different time zones. So when one post gets deleted, and a similar one doesn’t, it is likely a combination of those factors that explains what may appear to members to be inconsistencies or preferences. Of course, the report button is always there for a member to express these concerns — for instance, Marbe, you could have privately reported those undeleted cartoons and explained what you saw as an inconsistency. I don’t see that as a challenge to my integrity as a moderator, it is just a potentially helpful observation that may allow us to see things from a different perspective and help us to achieve a uniform “touch” with so many different challenges. We don’t always agree with member reports, and don’t always take the action the member asks for, but I think I speak for all of us when I say that we really appreciate the reports and benefit from having so many more eyes on the ground than if we mods were the only ones keeping a look out.

For me, optimizing or maximizing happiness on the forum means not that we hope everyone will agree with everyone else, but that we hope that the comments and disagreements will be respectful and will not challenge the good faith of the poster. I am much more likely to be “happy” if I can learn from compassionate responses why people may have misinterpreted or disagreed with what I said than if I am told repeatedly that I am ____________ (fill in your favorite negative adjective here).

And Marbe, I think but am not sure that you are asking about the purpose and effect of collecting points (if I am just rehashing familiar ground for you, sorry). Points are given when a member seems to ignore cautions and warnings that he/she is crossing the line and is violating the rules. If you “collect” enough of them you will be put on moderation, which means that a moderator has to approve any post you want to post for a certain period of time. If you really collect a lot of points, you will be banned for a month or some other time. The apology that started this whole thread was because we realized that most members never learned that they had received points and never knew that we were trying to caution them to rein in their language and abide by the rules. Lack of communication breeds misunderstandings and conflict, as became evident when we took a look at the warning system and how it operates.

Having a thread deleted is not necessarily going to result in points (we don’t keep track, but I will bet that the overwhelming majority of deleted posts do not trigger pointes). But the converse is usually true — if you get points, some of your posts will have been deleted for rule violations.

Thank you for your response, Laurie. Do you know, approximately, how many actual responses get deleted per day in non-covid time? @CCleary makes the point @MichelleElynHogan that returning deleted posts would be too time consuming. I know you all spend a lot of time responding to us and it is much appreciated! I think Michelle’s idea is a good one. Is there any way a program could be be added so that when any deletion of a post is made, it is automatically returned to the sender?

 

[thepacman]

Wow, I had no idea that any of this went on, I suspect like thousands (tens of thousands??) of others. Unless I have a particular question (rare) I simply read stuff that looks like it might be interesting, occasionally responding. I imagine that people like me are the norm. How big is the "problem"?

 

[C clearly]

Do you know, approximately, how many actual responses get deleted per day in non-covid time?

I really don't know the answer, as I've been around mainly in Covid times. However, it is not a big number.

Is there any way a program could be be added so that when any deletion of a post is made, it is automatically returned to the sender?

I don't think it is enough to bother with this. Most deleted responses are short and not-so-sweet, and anyone who reads the rules can figure it out. If a member "loses" a longer response, they can just ask and we can provide it.

 

[C clearly]

How big is the "problem"?

Not big at all. Sometimes people imagine it is bigger than it is, and the rumours take off! Then we do have a bigger problem!

 

[Marbe2]

I really don't know the answer, as I've been around mainly in Covid times. However, it is not a big number.

I don't think it is enough to bother with this. Most deleted responses are short and not-so-sweet, and anyone who reads the rules can figure it out. If a member "loses" a longer response, they can just ask and we can provide it.

If there are only a few longer deletions, now and then, how much time would it take to simply copy and return those few posts in PMs to the senders? Rather than the mentor trying to correct an essentially valuable post, why not return it to the sender? Would it not place the focus on the sender to correct it if the sender thought it was worth reposting?

 

[wayfarer]

If there are only a few longer deletions, now and then, how much time would it take to simply copy and return those few posts in PMs to the senders? Rather than the mentor trying to correct an essentially valuable post, why not return it to the sender? Would it not place the focus on the sender to correct it if the sender thought it was worth reposting?

That is pretty much what C clearly said, if its a long post the author is asked to repost and their post is PM'd if requested.

 

[Marbe2]

That is pretty much what C clearly said, if its a long post the author is asked to repost and their post is PM'd if requested.

yes, but I believe she said “sometimes”....
My thinking is that since there are few such posts, then why not have a policy, so that we all understand that all unacceptable longer posts will be returned.

 

[wayfarer]

They will be returned if requested. I can't remember the last time I was requested to return the OP, most times the member decides not to re post. It has never been a big issue, a lot of times the post is just edited.

 

[henrythedog]

Honestly folks it’s not a problem. The moderators are human - at least compared to some of the long-standing contributors on here. I sail close to the wind, especially with the well-known-rule 2 transgression regarding the ritual torture of large ruminants (see!), and I get away with it. Mostly. Well, sometimes. OK, occasionally.

You would have to have the self-awareness of yeast to get banned

 

[C clearly]

I believe she said “sometimes”....

Yes, I meant that "sometimes" the moderator takes this extra step.

why not have a policy, so that we all understand that all unacceptable longer posts will be returned.

We do have policies that everyone should understand - the "Rules". If members violate them, posts will be deleted. The moderators do try to be fair and compassionate, and thus often go an extra step to help members.

I realize that I have been coming close to violating the rule about no open discussion of moderator decisions (a rule that I completely support) so I think we should take any further discussion to PM.