Is it my imagination... or?

[Anniesantiago]

Is it my imagination or is there not an announcement before the Pilgrim Masses at the Cathedral asking people NOT to take photos or videotape - which would include the swinging of the Botafumeiro?

 

[Mananath]

I recently attended 8 pilgrim masses and there were frequent announcements for all masses with the exception of the 7:30 mass. These occurred with frequency in the 30 min prior to the mass starting by the on site security guard. He also read out a warning before the eucharist was offered and a reminder to eat the host in front of the priest.

 

[LavanyaLea]

Yes they announced it at the beginning of mass/before mass started (no phone or camera). But I thought before the botafumeiro started, in my case it was the Archbishop he said something along the line of, “the mass has ended”, to signify that the holy mass was over and now was the “entertainment” side with the botafumeiro.

 

[Bala]

When I completed my pilgrimage in 2018 I was blessed to see the botafumeiro 3 times. They were extremely strict about no cameras during mass. A woman a few pews ahead of me barely had her phone out of her waist pack when a guard was at her side admonishing her.

However, as @LavanyaLea says above, the botafumeiro ceremony takes place  after mass has ended. That's when the crowds whip out the phones and cameras and start videoing away. It's pretty much a free-for-all from that point on. But mass has definitely already ended.

 

[Paul McAmino]

Archbishop … said something along the line of, “the mass has ended”, to signify that the holy mass was over and now was the “entertainment” side with the botafumeiro.

What the Archbishop was saying (presumably) in Spanish was the Dismissal: in the Latin mass, “Ite. Missa est.” In other words, “Go. The mass is over.”

I recall that this imperative was a wonderful thing for a fidgety boy to hear.

All the best,
Paul

 

[p3nny]

Is it my imagination or is their not an announcement before the Pilgrim Masses at the Cathedral asking people NOT to take photos or videotape - which would include the swinging of the Botafumeiro?

We attended the 7:30 a.m. mass on August 5. No announcement.

 

[Anniesantiago]

We attended the 7:30 a.m. mass on August 5. No announcement.

And the botafumeiro swung that Mass?

 

[ELHS220]

Is it my imagination or is there not an announcement before the Pilgrim Masses at the Cathedral asking people NOT to take photos or videotape - which would include the swinging of the Botafumeiro?

Taking pictures at Botafumeiro time has never been an issue.

 

[Kathar1na]

What the Archbishop was saying (presumably) in Spanish was the Dismissal: in the Latin mass, “Ite. Missa est.” In other words, “Go. The mass is over.”

I am not very familiar with the details of the liturgy of the various rites. But I have watched a number of misas del peregrino recently and the proceedings are always the same: First the Botafumeiro swings and only at the end of it the celebrant says "Podéis ir en paz" which I think is the equivalent or an alternative to "Ite. Misa est."

So, strictly speaking, the swinging is part of the liturgical service I guess. When the Archbishop himself officiates, he gives a little speech before the Botafumeiro is put in action where he explains the purpose in Spanish and English - it symbolises or accompanies the prayers of the faithful.

Each time I've watched it (only the 9:30, 12:00 and 19:30 mass are broadcast), before the start of Mass, a member of the Cathedral staff announces in Spanish and in English that photos and videos are not allowed during mass. The majority of people appear to follow these instructions, or simply know anyway how to behave during Mass, and don't use their smartphones. This changes abruptly as soon as the tiraboleiros appear and the Botafumeiro starts to swing. A sea of smartphone screens can be seen as next to everybody wants to record it.

 

[Luther]

Is it my imagination or is there not an announcement before the Pilgrim Masses at the Cathedral asking people NOT to take photos or videotape - which would include the swinging of the Botafumeiro?

I've always been confused about videoing the botafuermo. In 2016 I thought it was supposed to be forbidden and I told myself I would not. There was an announcement that I could not translate, and was told it said "no FLASH photography" is allowed. When the bota' started swinging hundreds of the congregation started filming.

 

[Kathar1na]

There was an announcement that I could not translate, and was told it said "no FLASH photography" is allowed. When the bota' started swinging hundreds of the congregation started filming.

This announcement is made regularly throughout the day by staff of the Cathedral. It informs visitors that they can take photos during their visit (not during Mass) but they must not use a flash.

PS: I had the broadcast on in another browser tab while writing this post and such an announcement was made in Spanish right now: No flash in the Cathedral including at the Portico de la Gloria; obligation to wear facemasks; men are asked not to wear sombreros y gorras (no hats or caps); people are asked to be quiet as they are in a church.

 

[pjacobi]

Taking pictures at Botafumeiro time has never been an issue.

In fact, I saw a video of a priest concelebrating the Mass pull out a cell phone to photograph the swinging Botafumeiro from the alter.


-Paul

 

[Masalawoman]

Is it my imagination or is there not an announcement before the Pilgrim Masses at the Cathedral asking people NOT to take photos or videotape - which would include the swinging of the Botafumeiro?

When we attended the mass in October 2017, we heard and observed the warnings to not take photos. We weren't sure how seriously to take that admonition, though, when we saw an ocean of cell phones whipped out as the botafumeiro started swinging, including those of two priests!

 

[MichaelC]

When I went the Botafumeiro was swung before mass, and the announcement was that one could film that, but all cameras needed to be put away once mass started.

 

[Judith P.]

When I completed my pilgrimage in 2018 I was blessed to see the botafumeiro 3 times. They were extremely strict about no cameras during mass. A woman a few pews ahead of me barely had her phone out of her waist pack when a guard was at her side admonishing her.

However, as @LavanyaLea says above, the botafumeiro ceremony takes place  after mass has ended. That's when the crowds whip out the phones and cameras and start videoing away. It's pretty much a free-for-all from that point on. But mass has definitely already ended.

I am not a Catholic (and the pilgrimage is for everyone) but strongly feel the Cathedral is sacred. It would would be a privilege as a non Catholic to just watch mass, and see the botafumeiro.

 

[Judith P.]

I am not a Catholic (and the pilgrimage is for everyone) but strongly feel the Cathedral is sacred. It would would be a privilege as a non Catholic to just watch mass, and see the botafumeiro.

Cameras and selfie sticks belong outside the Cathedral in the plaza.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

There is nothing disrespectful about photographing or filming the botafumeiro. It is a spectacle and has always been allowed. During the liturgy of the mass is quite another matter.

 

[Sparleb644]

When we attended the mass in October 2017, we heard and observed the warnings to not take photos. We weren't sure how seriously to take that admonition, though, when we saw an ocean of cell phones whipped out as the botafumeiro started swinging, including those of two priests!

We too were confused in 2018 by the stipulation that cameras and filming were not permitted and then the number of people doing it. Including the privileged people inside the cordoned off area who participated in the mass, who were filming the swinging of the botafumeiro. And our neighbour in the fronot row who whipped out his 11 inch iPad…. Not inconspicuous…..
We never saw a reaction from anyone official…..

 

[Kathar1na]

When I went the Botafumeiro was swung before mass, and the announcement was that one could film that, but all cameras needed to be put away once mass started.

The next special occasion where the Botafumeiro is due to swing at the beginning and not at the end will be soon, namely on the 15th of August. We'll have to log on and check what it being announced.

 

[J F Gregory]

I asked security about this and it did start years ago when people used flash on thier cameras and disturbed the mass. It has continued from then.

 

[dbier]

If I remember right, Podéis ir en Paz translates as "You (informal plural) go in peace. "

The Mass is ended; Go in Peace
Thanks be to God (Demos gracias a Dios)

Oddly enough, there doesn't seem to be a transliteration in the current Roman Catholic Spanish Mass for "The Mass is ended." Dr Google says it would be, "La Misa ha terminado," but that phrase is not in my Spanish Missal.

 

[pjacobi]

"The Mass has ended": This is the only time the word "Mass" is used during the Mass. The very definition of the word "Mass" is defined by this sentence.


-Paul

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Before Latin was abandoned after Vatican 2, we were dismissed with “Ite, missa est!” Which literally means “Go, she is sent!”…she being “iglesia” - the church, in other words, us. Missa is a feminine past participle of mittere - to send.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Sorry, ecclesia.

 

[Pafayac]

I am not a Catholic (and the pilgrimage is for everyone) but strongly feel the Cathedral is sacred. It would would be a privilege as a non Catholic to just watch mass, and see the botafumeiro.

As a catholic, I would not call it a privilege. The mass is for everybody. Eucharist is for catholics because for the others it has not the same sense…

 

[Josefus]

What the Archbishop was saying (presumably) in Spanish was the Dismissal: in the Latin mass, “Ite. Missa est.” In other words, “Go. The mass is over.”

I think the correct translation should be: Go! You are sent out. (Or: You are envoys.)

 

[WayWalker]

In 2013 I felt most people abided by the request for no cameras. By 2016 no one did. We didn't even attempt to attend in 2018.

Is it my imagination or is there not an announcement before the Pilgrim Masses at the Cathedral asking people NOT to take photos or videotape - which would include the swinging of the Botafumeiro?

2013

 

[JJW]

One can give their full attention to seeing the process from start to finish without using anything but their own eyes and other senses to create in the imagination a vivid memory that may never fade. But this means to watch attentively the actual thing, and not the tiny recording screen in the hand.

 

[GregorMc]

August 11, 2011 more than a few screens ahead of me. I was on an iPhone 4, the chap in front on a Blackberry, a couple of camcorders and a digital point and shoot. I have other photos and a video. No admonishment nor, as I recall, announcement. But I only have photos of the botafumeiro so either common sense or a sign sufficed. We entered through the ‘front door’ in those days too, and got to hug the Saint. At lot has changed in 11 years!

 

[Kanga]

A lot has indeed changed. First arrival I walked straight into the front entrance of the cathedral with my pack, on the Tree of Life put my hands into the imprint made by thousands of those who had come before, acknowledged Mateus with my forehead, climbed behind the alter to hug the Saint, went down into the crypt to worship at the shrine, then sat in the transept (still with pack) for the mass, the botafumero was swung at the end and there were cameras used, but no mobile phone cameras (they did not exist!) No queues.

 

[Bala]

One can give their full attention to seeing the process from start to finish without using anything but their own eyes and other senses to create in the imagination a vivid memory that may never fade. But this means to watch attentively the actual thing, and not the tiny recording screen in the hand.

Exactly. At first I started videoing like crazy, trying to capture everything but missing most. Then I realized how stupid that was. There I was sitting directly below the botafumeiro as it arched just a few feet over my head. And I was watching it through my phone. Really??? I put the phone away and took in the experience first hand.

So my personal videos of the botafumeiro are terrible. But my memories are vivid. When friends want to see what it's like, I link onto one of the professional videos online and let the pros take over.

 

[RJM]

A lot has indeed changed. First arrival I walked straight into the front entrance of the cathedral with my pack, on the Tress of Life put my hands into the imprint made by thousands of those who had come before, acknowledged Mateus with my forehead, climbed behind the alter to hug the Saint, went down into the crypt to worship at the shrine, then sat in the transept (still with pack) for the mass, the botafumero was swung at the end and there were cameras used, but no mobile phone cameras (they did not exist!) No queues.

Indeed.
The last time I walked the Camino, the Portugues, I was in SDC two days. I was not able to go to mass one time due to the very long queues combined with the pouring rain. When the rain cleared up I headed to Fisterre.

 

[Marbe2]

I would definitely opt for a different church if one truly wants to worship, especially on special occasions. On Holy Thursday we were packed in like sardines and people who were standing, talked through out the liturgy. They took pictures and used their video cameras all throughout the mass, despite the announcements. So we went elsewhere for Good Friday and Easter.

 

[SabsP]

I would definitely opt for a different church if one truly wants to worship, especially on special occasions. On Holy Thursday we were packed in like sardines and people who were standing, talked through out the liturgy. They took pictures and used their video cameras all throughout the mass, despite the announcements. So we went elsewhere for Good Friday and Easter.

San Agustin , close to the Mercado is my favourite church in Santiago.
Jesuits " run " the place and do this wonderfully.
Most of the time inspiring sermons too.
Always nice to see how locals pop in and out of the church for only a couple of minutes of quiet worship.

 

[nycwalking]

A lot has indeed changed. First arrival I walked straight into the front entrance of the cathedral with my pack, on the Tree of Life put my hands into the imprint made by thousands of those who had come before, acknowledged Mateus with my forehead, climbed behind the alter to hug the Saint, went down into the crypt to worship at the shrine, then sat in the transept (still with pack) for the mass, the botafumero was swung at the end and there were cameras used, but no mobile phone cameras (they did not exist!) No queues.

Same.

Lots has changed since 2001.

 

[Kathar1na]

FWIW, no announcement was made that explicitly allowed the use of cameras and phones to record the swinging of the Botafumeiro which, today, happened at the beginning and not at the end of the service.

At 11:30 and at 11:38 the same announcement was made in Spanish and English: mass is about to start; visitors must leave; those who stay for mass must not walk around; they must wear facemarks. And: "Once the mass starts the use of cameras and mobile phones is forbidden".

The procession started at 11:45, the Botafumeiro was swinging from 11:51-11:53, many if not most in the congregation sitting close to it used their phones for a photo at the beginning and then put it away and just watched, the mass as such started at 12:02.

 

[Kathar1na]

I saw a video of a priest concelebrating the Mass pull out a cell phone to photograph the swinging Botafumeiro from the alter.

I've been watching the live broadcast of the pilgrim mass at the Cathedral numerous times this year and I had never noticed this.

Today, out of curiosity, I switched on the live broadcast of the pilgrim mass at noon. The Botafumeiro swung because it had been sponsored by a group from Malaga if I had understood the announcement correctly. At this mass, there was a large number of concelebrants in their red and white robes participating in the celebration of the mass, about a dozen priests or so, from towns in Spain and from abroad, as announced at the beginning of mass.

And indeed, but very discreetly, at least one of them videoed the whole 2 to 3 minutes of the swinging of the Botafumeiro from his privileged viewpoint in the altar space - he held his smartphone at a certain angle with both hands in front of him, not high up in the air, and folded the cover at the end and then put it away - and another one, also very discreetly, half turned around for a short moment, held up his smartphone and took a selfie of himself and of the swinging Botafumeiro plus I guess of the people sitting in the front pews as background.

It is a modern Church, after all, at least in large parts ...

 

[Kathar1na]

The clerical management (”Cabildo”) appears to be quite relaxed about the use of mobile phones and the Botafumeiro. It’s quite sweet actually and has certainly dampened my earlier ire about the many screens that are held up in this context.

Today I noticed - since I paid attention to it - what the two celebrants at the 9:30 am pilgrim mass did. One was a member of the Cathedral clergy and the other was a visiting priest. When they both had approached the Botafumeiro to add the incense the Cathedral celebrant stepped back for a quick moment and took a photo with a mobile phone of the Botafumeiro that was surrounded by the two tiraboleiros and the visiting priest. While the Botafumeiro was swinging, the visiting priest held his phone in his hands (not making a video though) and later, when the congregation had started to file out they remained in the altar space instead of leaving it as it is usual; the visitor handed his phone again to the other celebrant and another photo was taken with the visitor standing quite close to the High Altar.

Of course he wanted to have his very own souvenir photos of a remarkable event, like so many of us apparently do. It made me smile.

 

[Flog]

Of course he wanted to have his very own souvenir photos of a remarkable event, like so many of us apparently do. It made me smile.

I watched one priest's eyes following the botafumeiro this evening and it made me smile too, the universal nature of human behaviour is comforting sometimes.

It was a notably graceful end too, despite a fairly large congregation: no silly clapping, the thurible was allowed to come to a standstill without intervention and a slow meandering exodus from the cathedral which is not the norm these days.

The bota can be a circus, but when it isn't and the nuances can be observed, it's quite something..

 

[Former member 92300]

Not one announcement in the lead up to the many masses I have attended about camera/photos. They made lots of announcements - but none about camera/photos. And for the Botafumeiro - even the guest priests who were part of the service had their phone camera's out taking videos.

 

[Kathar1na]

I am not very familiar with the details of the liturgy of the various rites. But I have watched a number of misas del peregrino recently and the proceedings are always the same: First the Botafumeiro swings and only at the end of it the celebrant says "Podéis ir en paz"

It is never too late to learn something new and I am always eager to share .

On those days where the swinging of the Botafumeiro is sponsored i.e. paid for and hence not part of the liturgical calendar of the Cathedral of Santiago as such, it swings at the part of the service where "General Announcements" can be made. The 'rule book' says: "When the prayer after Communion is concluded, brief announcements to the people may be made, if they are needed." In other parishes this can mean announcements about various upcoming events, meetings or activities in the parish, like a coffee afternoon for seniors or a day trip organised by the parish.

I found this interesting. YMMV of course.