Alert At descent before Zubiri, police providing link to Alert Cops app

[Former member 72198]

Before the hardest part of the descent into Zubiri just before the jagged rocks, the police were there to provide geospatial emergency QR code’s if needed. We saw three pilgrims we (older man very unsteady who we told them about). Hope they were rescued. It isn’t hard but the rocks are so pointy and foot paths narrow. If someone were unsteady, like the older man… if anyone knows anything. Hope this code or number may be helpful or give you peace of mind. Not to worry. It is just a bit more technical than some other areas of the Camino.

 

[VNwalking]

What a good idea, to give these out. Not everyone knows about Alertcops, and this descent is certainly a place where help might be needed.

Spread the word that Alertcops (in addition to this specific Zubiri initiative) works anywhere in Spain, and it's a good idea to have access to it. In case.

 

[mspath]

What a good idea, to give these out. Not everyone knows about Alertcops, and this descent is certainly a place where help might be needed.

Spread the word that Alertcops in general (in addition to this specific Zubiri QR program) works anywhere in Spain, and it's a good idea to have access to it. In case.

See more here

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PS. That descent into Zubiri can be hell in the rain: pure slippery mud.

 

[malingerer]

See more here

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PS. That descent into Zubiri can be hell in the rain: pure slippery mud.

Very grateful for this input! I will be 84 next year and on top of everything else I have a severe balance problem left hand side. Could trays be provided for the elderly so we could recapture our childhood and slide down? I am accustomed in Galicia to fall frequently on my face going UP hills usually because of a sea of mud and cow-shite

Twas ever thus!

Samarkand.

 

[Former member 72198]

Very grateful for this input! I will be 84 next year and on top of everything else I have a severe balance problem left hand side. Could trays be provided for the elderly so we could recapture our childhood and slide down? I am accustomed in Galicia to fall frequently on my face going UP hills usually because of a sea of mud and cow-shite

Twas ever thus!

Samarkand.

I am 58 with balance issues on right side and nearly tripped three times! Can’t imagine it in rain!!

 

[Former member 72198]

See more here

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PS. That descent into Zubiri can be hell in the rain: pure slippery mud.

I just ran a half marathon and there is no way I’d do this descent in the rain! It is t a fitness issue. Narrow foot paths and easy to catch a tip of your shoe and go down. The sharpness of the rocks could do some real damage to whatever hits the ground first! Last time I I tripped on a root on a trail, my nose hit first!! Yikes!!

 

[Malachiuri]

I think they are doing this a few places when conditions are bad. Chatted with a team above Villafranca Montes de Oca in Jan 202 during a pretty icky ice storm. They were really insistent I reconsider continuing till I showed them my traction cleats.

I think it is a superb thing for pilgrims who do not realize what is ahead on bad days.

M

 

[mspath]

Here is another hellish spot February 9, 2007 on the Agra. One slip would become a spash!

 

[mspath]

I think they are doing this a few places when conditions are bad. Chatted with a team above Villafranca Montes de Oca in Jan 202 during a pretty icky ice storm. They were really insistent I reconsider continuing till I showed them my traction cleats.

I think it is a superb thing for pilgrims who do not realize what is ahead on bad days.

M

M,
Of course the assistance of the police is superb; however, better yet would be that pilgrims did realize how bad conditions could be and thus not take chances!

 

[Malachiuri]

I totally agree!!!

M

 

[jalluisi]

View attachment 109683Before the hardest part of the descent into Zubiri just before the jagged rocks, the police were there to provide geospatial emergency QR code’s if needed. We saw three pilgrims we (older man very unsteady who we told them about). Hope they were rescued. It isn’t hard but the rocks are so pointy and foot paths narrow. If someone were unsteady, like the older man… if anyone knows anything. Hope this code or number may be helpful or give you peace of mind. Not to worry. It is just a bit more technical than some other areas of the Camino.

Thank you. I downloaded the app.

 

[TaijiPilgrim]

See more here

.: Error 403 :.

PS. That descent into Zubiri can be hell in the rain: pure slippery mud.

In 2015, we inched our way down this section after the rain and it was still treacherously slick. A young steady pilgrim and a gentleman stood in the middle of the mud slick and helped each of us maneuver safely down.

 

[lt56ny]

See more here

.: Error 403 :.

PS. That descent into Zubiri can be hell in the rain: pure slippery mud.

Alert Cops - Don't leave home without it!

 

[Marbe2]

How is that-different from dialing 112?

 

[Sue127]

See more here

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PS. That descent into Zubiri can be hell in the rain: pure slippery mud.

I was amazed last year when three older gentlemen cycled down there, I'm glad I was on foot!

 

[DoughnutANZ]

I have been debating with myself about contributing to this thread. I walked from Roncesvalles to Zubiri in heavy rain in early May 2019 with no problems at all. The rain was so heavy that parts of the trail into Pamplona the next day were impassable because of flooding.

As I jogged past one pilgrim she asked me how I could go so fast and I paused to explain. Firstly I recognised that my feet, trail runners and socks would get wet regardless of what I did and so unlike almost everyone else I passed that day I was not hopping from one dry patch to another or trying to balance on rocks to keep my feet dry.

Most of the people who I passed (well over 30) were weaving left and right across the trail looking for dryer or less muddy patches.

I purposely walked in the same path as the running water. This ensured that there was less slippery mud, loose rocks or muddy foot prints. At the same time the water washed any mud that my shoes had picked up off the soles so that they got a clean grip. As it happens, this water path is usually the shortest/easiest as water seeks the lowest path.

Back home here in Aotearoa New Zealand when I go hiking with a group it is easy to spot the difference between experienced hikers and the inexperienced when crossing a stream. The experienced hikers walk through the water seeking good footing and ignoring the water while the inexperienced try to rock hop to keep their feet dry, unfortunately, sometimes one or more of the rock hoppers slip and fall and at the minimum get completely wet or worse they injure themselves when they fall.

I have to admit that I don't have a perfect technique though and in unavoidable, thick mud I have slipped and fallen. I now carry ice cleats for the really muddy sections.

 

[Debora]

I have been debating with myself about contributing to this thread. I walked from Roncesvalles to Zubiri in heavy rain in early May 2019 with no problems at all. The rain was so heavy that parts of the trail into Pamplona the next day were impassable because of flooding.

As I jogged past one pilgrim she asked me how I could go so fast and I paused to explain. Firstly I recognised that my feet, trail runners and socks would get wet regardless of what I did and so unlike almost everyone else I passed that day I was not hopping from one dry patch to another or trying to balance on rocks to keep my feet dry.

Most of the people who I passed (well over 30) were weaving left and right across the trail looking for dryer or less muddy patches.

I purposely walked in the same path as the running water. This ensured that there was less slippery mud, loose rocks or muddy foot prints. At the same time the water washed any mud that my shoes had picked up off the soles so that they got a clean grip. As it happens, this water path is usually the shortest/easiest as water seeks the lowest path.

Back home here in Aotearoa New Zealand when I go hiking with a group it is easy to spot the difference between experienced hikers and the inexperienced when crossing a stream. The experienced hikers walk through the water seeking good footing and ignoring the water while the inexperienced try to rock hop to keep their feet dry, unfortunately, sometimes one or more of the rock hoppers slip and fall and at the minimum get completely wet or worse they injure themselves when they fall.

I have to admit that I don't have a perfect technique though and in unavoidable, thick mud I have slipped and fallen. I now carry ice cleats for the really muddy sections.

May 19, 2019 I walked from St. Jean Pied de Port to Orisson in a very strong rain storm, completely soaked and so glad we had a room in Orisson. I was just wondering if that was the same time you were walking to Zubiri? Walking with the water....good advice.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

How is that-different from dialing 112?

I downloaded the app for my last camino but did not use or test it so I guessing about the benefits.

I think that app will connect you to a larger assortment of translators or immediate access to them. Also the app likely can access your location through cell tower triangulation or GPS, if running. If not running GPS the app may help you get it running.

 

[DoughnutANZ]

May 19, 2019 I walked from St. Jean Pied de Port to Orisson in a very strong rain storm, completely soaked and so glad we had a room in Orisson. I was just wondering if that was the same time you were walking to Zubiri? Walking with the water....good advice.

Friday 17th May I walked from Roncesvalles to Zubiri and so I was a couple of days ahead of you.

 

[chinacat]

I have been debating with myself about contributing to this thread. I walked from Roncesvalles to Zubiri in heavy rain in early May 2019 with no problems at all. The rain was so heavy that parts of the trail into Pamplona the next day were impassable because of flooding.

As I jogged past one pilgrim she asked me how I could go so fast and I paused to explain. Firstly I recognised that my feet, trail runners and socks would get wet regardless of what I did and so unlike almost everyone else I passed that day I was not hopping from one dry patch to another or trying to balance on rocks to keep my feet dry.

Most of the people who I passed (well over 30) were weaving left and right across the trail looking for dryer or less muddy patches.

I purposely walked in the same path as the running water. This ensured that there was less slippery mud, loose rocks or muddy foot prints. At the same time the water washed any mud that my shoes had picked up off the soles so that they got a clean grip. As it happens, this water path is usually the shortest/easiest as water seeks the lowest path.

Back home here in Aotearoa New Zealand when I go hiking with a group it is easy to spot the difference between experienced hikers and the inexperienced when crossing a stream. The experienced hikers walk through the water seeking good footing and ignoring the water while the inexperienced try to rock hop to keep their feet dry, unfortunately, sometimes one or more of the rock hoppers slip and fall and at the minimum get completely wet or worse they injure themselves when they fall.

I have to admit that I don't have a perfect technique though and in unavoidable, thick mud I have slipped and fallen. I now carry ice cleats for the really muddy sections.

This makes perfect sense.

I remember having to chase my small daughter who had run off, on a woodland walk, across one of the muddiest patches of ground I have ever seen. Her elderly godmother and I had been picking our way over the mud, creeping along at a snail’s pace. (I was wearing a pair of white () leather ecco so-soft shoes, with no grip at all). But needing to catch up with my toddler, I forgot about the mud and just strode ahead, ‘in my feet’, ‘grounded’ by my intention, and never slipped up once.
(Had I been wearing my walking boots, I wouldn’t have thought twice about the mud, of course.)

Many years later, somewhere on the way to Cirauqui, we found ourselves on that steep incline that rises to meet the road and consists of dense red mud.
It had dried out and resembled a miniature mountain range.
I’d rather have had that woodland mud, anyday!

 

[Former member 72198]

I’m sure experience matters. I hike but not over pointy shale (mostly rounded boulders). But I am also not young and was hit by a drunk driver head on. I’ve been in a wheelchair and told I may face amputation. I have metal plates and screws to support the crushing of my bones. My ankle doesn’t bend (dorsiflexion) like it should due to a metal cuff. Yet, I ran a half marathon that none of my doctors thought should be possible (that is luck not due to my own brilliance). I don’t go slowly over this terrain due to a LACK of experience but due to an over abundance of experience!!! Lol!!

 

[DoughnutANZ]

I am 68, not particularly athletic, overweight. I was hit by a motor vehicle while riding my motorcycle home from work one night when I was 24. I had a compound fracture of my tibia and fibula and a common fracture of my femur. The tibia was plated and I spent 12 weeks in traction while my femur healed. My right leg is now shorter than my left. I also have difficulty flexing my right ankle. My right leg swells up after a couple of hours of standing and my right hip hurts like hell after a couple of hours of sitting

I just get on with my life, I walk where I want to walk and I am not defined by my prior injuries. I take sensible precautions but I love dancing along a trail in the forest.

Edit: Actually, I spent my 24th birthday in hospital and so officially I was 23 when I was injured.

 

[Mycroft]

I downloaded the app for my last camino but did not use or test it so I guessing about the benefits.

I think that app will connect you to a larger assortment of translators or immediate access to them. Also the app likely can access your location through cell tower triangulation or GPS, if running. If not running GPS the app may help you get it running.

I do not have a phone, let alone a smart phone. I do have faith and hope.

 

[Former member 72198]

I am 68, not particularly athletic, overweight. I was hit by a motor vehicle while riding my motorcycle home from work one night when I was 24. I had a compound fracture of my tibia and fibula and a common fracture of my femur. The tibia was plated and I spent 12 weeks in traction while my femur healed. My right leg is now shorter than my left. I also have difficulty flexing my right ankle. My right leg swells up after a couple of hours of standing and my right hip hurts like hell after a couple of hours of sitting

I just get on with my life, I walk where I want to walk and I am not defined by my prior injuries. I take sensible precautions but I love dancing along a trail in the forest.

Edit: Actually, I spent my 24th birthday in hospital and so officially I was 23 when I was injured.

We are so very fortunate. Lucky people. I wish I could jog down Zubiri like you, my friend. But I’m thrilled to be doing it at all. My only point was to let folks who can’t jog it know about the AlertCops and to see if anyone had news about the old man. I will continue at the pace I consider appropriate and you do you - fast and awesome!!!

 

[TomasWS]

I remember the descent from Zubiri. It was a real challenge on a wet day. I'm heading back to Pamplona in a few days to continue where I left off. I'm planning to go as far as Burgos this time. I've downloaded the app to my phone. Thanks for the info.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I do not have a phone, let alone a smart phone. I do have faith and hope.

It's not the same thing but I'm reminded of
The Story About a Jeep, a Boat and a Helicopter.

 

[Lupo]

Very grateful for this input! I will be 84 next year and on top of everything else I have a severe balance problem left hand side. Could trays be provided for the elderly so we could recapture our childhood and slide down? I am accustomed in Galicia to fall frequently on my face going UP hills usually because of a sea of mud and cow-shite

Twas ever thus!

Samarkand.

I walked down to Zuburi in 2014 (I was 48 then). Perfect weather, no problem with tripping. But be warned: I saw some people, including me, who had severe problems with their knees walking down there. I had such pain, that I thought already about giving up my Camino... And I never had problems with my knees in my whole life.
I walked until then without walking sticks, but immediately bought a pair in the next shop in Pamplona. They helped a lot! Since that day, I would never walk without sticks again.
So, if I will walk the Camino Frances again someday, I might skip this etapa.

 

[Mycroft]

It's not the same thing but I'm reminded of
The Story About a Jeep, a Boat and a Helicopter.

Haha

 

[Walton]

Fall are dangerous - very - ask any doctor.

The risk of mortality within one year of a hip fracture caused by a fall is high and it is something to be taken very seriously especially for the over 60's. A fracture would also most likely cause a Camino adventure to suddenly end. No more cafe con leches for you.

The simple answer to largely preventing falls on walking trails is poles, walking sticks, stabilizers or whatever you want to call them. I say largely, because poles won't prevent all falls and if you use them incorrectly without thinking, can cause a fall as I found out! Tripped over my own pole I did.

Think about it - You are top heavy with a backpack on your back and you are relying on your body to compensate for this increase in weight, making you inherently unstable if conditions should suddenly change..

Add a slope or slippery conditions and you are at risk of becoming very suddenly unstable - where gravity could act in a manner much to your disliking.

Correctly using poles will help you to stabilise yourself.

Poles also help you transfer weight from your knees to your arms and if knee troubles exist, it makes sense to look after them as much as you can.

There are different types of poles and yes - there is a learning curve to ensure you use them correctly, but on slippery or upward or downward trail surfaces they are really well worth the investment.

I wouldn't do a Camino without them.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I haven't seen any instructions yet on how to use the Alert Cops app but there are a good number of screenshots of it at the Play Store and this webpage in English describes some features.

https://alertcops.ses.mir.es/mialertcops/en/index.html

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[Malachiuri]

Wont verify my number. I am in France atm so should be easier than US...

M

 

[Former member 99089]

Fall are dangerous - very - ask any doctor.

The risk of mortality within one year of a hip fracture caused by a fall is high and it is something to be taken very seriously especially for the over 60's. A fracture would also most likely cause a Camino adventure to suddenly end. No more cafe con leches for you.

The simple answer to largely preventing falls on walking trails is poles, walking sticks, stabilizers or whatever you want to call them. I say largely, because poles won't prevent all falls and if you use them incorrectly without thinking, can cause a fall as I found out! Tripped over my own pole I did.

Think about it - You are top heavy with a backpack on your back and you are relying on your body to compensate for this increase in weight, making you inherently unstable if conditions should suddenly change..

Add a slope or slippery conditions and you are at risk of becoming very suddenly unstable - where gravity could act in a manner much to your disliking.

Correctly using poles will help you to stabilise yourself.

Poles also help you transfer weight from your knees to your arms and if knee troubles exist, it makes sense to look after them as much as you can.

There are different types of poles and yes - there is a learning curve to ensure you use them correctly, but on slippery or upward or downward trail surfaces they are really well worth the investment.

I wouldn't do a Camino without them.

Oh man!! I can’t imagine walking without them! And you are correct about fractures. I know there are some older folks on here who said they jogged down. Okay. But not me. I just spent a good portion of the last three years rehabbing. Not only was it hard on me but also my hubby and my pocket (prematurely retired). So, yeah. Your thoughts are wise and resonate for me!!

 

[CAJohn]

I found myself on the Camino carefully working my way down steep hills with rocks and other obstacles to navigate with care using my poles and strategically planning each step.

Then, several bicyclist would fly down the hill past me without a care in the world. I kept thinking that I would find them sprawled out somewhere below me on the way down. But no. They were fine. It always amazed me.

 

[Roland49]

The experienced hikers walk through the water seeking good footing and ignoring the water while the inexperienced try to rock hop to keep their feet dry, unfortunately, sometimes one or more of the rock hoppers slip and fall and at the minimum get completely wet or worse they injure themselves when they fall.

Yip. Same learned this year by crossing the alps on the E5. Same boots as on my CF 2019, too.
My boots are full leather and came out of this trip just fine, feet were always dry.

One of the sayings of my hiking-guide: short steps: long pleasure, long steps: short pleasure

 

[Former member 94614]

my first stage will be from roncesvalles to zubiri next Friday April 22, (busing there from pamplona to start with pilgrim mass)!and so far, rainy conditions are predicted. i'm 64 and already have horrible knees that will need replacing after this pilgimage. after reading the above thread i wonder at what point it would be most prudent to hop a taxi to zubiri after walking as much as i can before it gets to be an unecessary risk if raining. please dont fault me but i dont want to go out of commission on day one. any suggestions are welcome for a place to get wifi so i can call for transport if dangerous (for me) conditions. is the steep part mainly close to zubiri? i did book an albergue in zubiri, after which i have nothing booked, but can always cancel that if need to stop short.

 

[GettingThere]

my first stage will be from roncesvalles to zubiri next Friday April 22, (busing there from pamplona to start with pilgrim mass)!and so far, rainy conditions are predicted. i'm 64 and already have horrible knees that will need replacing after this pilgimage. after reading the above thread i wonder at what point it would be most prudent to hop a taxi to zubiri after walking as much as i can before it gets to be an unecessary risk if raining. please dont fault me but i dont want to go out of commission on day one. any suggestions are welcome for a place to get wifi so i can call for transport if dangerous (for me) conditions. is the steep part mainly close to zubiri? i did book an albergue in zubiri, after which i have nothing booked, but can always cancel that if need to stop short.

That descent can be dicey at the best of times in dry weather. I've done it twice and hated it, and it didn't get easier the second time! In wet weather it can get quite dangerous especially if you have knee trouble. I would skip it - you will have plenty of other challenging places on the Camino, and as you say, you don't want to damage yourself on day one. The bad part is just the last 3-4 km to Zubiri, the rest of that stage is ok. Why not start with a short first day and stop at Viskarreta? That's about 12km from Roncesvalles with some gentler hills (and is really the last village with services before Zubiri). Then you could either stay there if you can find an available place (there are a small number of casas rurales and pensiones but they are popular so you'd need to book) or call a taxi from there to take you on to Zubiri. If unsure ask at the bar in the main square, Bar Juan, they will call one for you. It's a nice place to stop for a rest.

Buen Camino!

 

[J Willhaus]

Do you have or plan to use hiking poles? That can help tremendously. If I recall, there is a place where the path crosses the road sometime after Lintzoain where the path crosses the N-135 and there is usually a "Cafe Movil" which might be a place to call a cab before go downhill. On Gronze.com's map it is labled Puerto de Erro. Or you could get a cap to pick you up at Bizkarreta.

 

[palmah]

That descent can be dicey at the best of times in dry weather. I've done it twice and hated it, and it didn't get easier the second time! In wet weather it can get quite dangerous especially if you have knee trouble. I would skip it - you will have plenty of other challenging places on the Camino, and as you say, you don't want to damage yourself on day one. The bad part is just the last 3-4 km to Zubiri, the rest of that stage is ok. Why not start with a short first day and stop at Viskarreta? That's about 12km from Roncesvalles with some gentler hills (and is really the last village with services before Zubiri). Then you could either stay there if you can find an available place (there are a small number of casas rurales and pensiones but they are popular so you'd need to book) or call a taxi from there to take you on to Zubiri. If unsure ask at the bar in the main square, Bar Juan, they will call one for you. It's a nice place to stop for a rest.

Buen Camino!

Been there, done that...fractured my wrist last moth on this descent - rainy, slippery, rocks.

 

[Former member 94614]

Been there, done that...fractured my wrist last moth on this descent - rainy, slippery, rocks.

so sorry to hear that- hope you are doing well!

 

[Former member 94614]

Do you have or plan to use hiking poles? That can help tremendously. If I recall, there is a place where the path crosses the road sometime after Lintzoain where the path crosses the N-135 and there is usually a "Cafe Movil" which might be a place to call a cab before go downhill. On Gronze.com's map it is labled Puerto de Erro. Or you could get a cap to pick you up at Bizkarreta.
View attachment 122735

thx very helpful! yes will buy poles in pamplona for sure

 

[Former member 94614]

That descent can be dicey at the best of times in dry weather. I've done it twice and hated it, and it didn't get easier the second time! In wet weather it can get quite dangerous especially if you have knee trouble. I would skip it - you will have plenty of other challenging places on the Camino, and as you say, you don't want to damage yourself on day one. The bad part is just the last 3-4 km to Zubiri, the rest of that stage is ok. Why not start with a short first day and stop at Viskarreta? That's about 12km from Roncesvalles with some gentler hills (and is really the last village with services before Zubiri). Then you could either stay there if you can find an available place (there are a small number of casas rurales and pensiones but they are popular so you'd need to book) or call a taxi from there to take you on to Zubiri. If unsure ask at the bar in the main square, Bar Juan, they will call one for you. It's a nice place to stop for a rest.

Buen Camino!

thx so much checking it out...

 

[J Willhaus]

thx very helpful! yes will buy poles in pamplona for sure

Maybe call from Bizkaretta or definately get a phone numbe of a cab to call at the top of the hill where the N-135 crosses.

 

[RJM]

If weather, walking surface conditions, age, health, old injuries, pre existing medical issues etc make walking certain sections of the Camino actually dangerous to one's health and places them in danger of physical injury I recommend they skip those sections. Find transportation and leap frog over. There's no reason at all to needlessly risk injury. I mean, why? It's foolhardy.

 

[Former member 94614]

If weather, walking surface conditions, age, health, old injuries, pre existing medical issues etc make walking certain sections of the Camino actually dangerous to one's health and places them in danger of physical injury I recommend they skip those sections. Find transportation and leap frog over. There's no reason at all to needlessly risk injury. I mean, why? It's foolhardy.

thank you- well spoken. also thanks so much to the experienced pilgrims here who are so generous with their help to us new pilgrims- it is so very much appreciated!

 

[J Willhaus]

I don't recall many dangerous areas in the last 100 km.

 

[Gumba]

Our son had an accident (nothing major) just before Viscarret, we walked to the village and got a taxi to Zubiri. Second Camino we were happy to be walking the whole way. We were not prepared for how difficult this last stretch was, even with walking poles and good weather. Next Camino we will most definitely be walking down the road from Puerto de Erro as per J Willhaus' post. Viscarret-Puerto de Erro will still get your heart pumping! Please remember there is no such thing as cheating on the Camino and ignore anyone who says differently. You walk the Camino your way. Finally, I highly recommend walking poles - they have been invaluable. Happy walking