A Hard Question?

[rector]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

 

[Robo]

I think it's all in your head

IMHO, Those of us who are able to 'walk' to Santiago, are just on a different type of Pilgrimage. Or choosing to undertake a Pilgrimage in a different (not better) way.

Maybe the arrival in Santiago is not really the goal for those walking. The journey is.......

Just my take on it...........

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Another hard question: can one be proud of being a humble pilgrim?

 

[C clearly]

You can know if you are a pilgrim. You cannot know if another person is.

 

[Tincatinker]

I've never really considered what others might consider themselves. I know what I am, or, perhaps, what I aspire to be.

And members will be aware that at the first sign of any attempt to turn this into a "True Pilgrim" thread will be met with ire (and points) [Moderator Hat On]

 

[Marc S.]

And members will be aware that at the first sign of any attempt to turn this into a "True Pilgrim" thread will be met with ire (and points) [Moderator Hat On]

No worries. I know already that I am a true pilgrim. On the even days. that is. On the odd days I use another definition for the word pilgrim.

 

[twh]

you can not know what you are...but you can know what you think you are.

 

[Waka]

What is the definition of a pilgrim?

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

And members will be aware that at the first sign of any attempt to turn this into a "True Pilgrim" thread will be met with ire (and points) [Moderator Hat On]

Do you mean a hat like the true pilgrims wore? (Just testing. )

[Edit: By the way, for those who never heard this (meant to be spoken)
Q. If April showers bring May flowers what do Mayflowers bring?
A. Pilgrims. ]

 

[rector]

No worries. I know already that I am a true pilgrim. On the even days. that is. On the odd days I use another definition for the word pilgrim.

You and I have the same split personality disorder

 

[rector]

Do you mean a hat like the true pilgrims wore? (Just testing. )
View attachment 48267

Thats no pilgrim he does not have a 50kg back pack

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I am not a true pilgrim, just a woman who loves walking the caminos for a variety of wonderful reasons which I've posted before on other threads.

 

[VNwalking]

am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft.

Easy question. And it's nothing to do with being a pilgrim or not.
Better than, worse than, equal to...any form of comparing oneself to someone else and then letting the ego own that is a source of suffering, for both parties.

Another hard question: can one be proud of being a humble pilgrim?

Also easy. In that moment there's neither humility nor remembering one is pilgrim. Hopefully in the next moment one will get a grip and snap out of it.

 

[Tincatinker]

I am not Pilgrim:
"Now he had not run far from his own door, but his Wife and Children, perceiving it, began to cry after him to return; but the Man put his fingers in his ears, and ran on, crying Life! Life! Eternal Life! So he looked not behind him, but fled towards the middle of the Plain." John Bunyan The Pilgrim's Progress.

I am a pilgrim: a traveler who is on a journey. And who knows or has care of where that journey may take me but me?

Edited for a misquote: my Bunyan's getting rusty.

 

[VNwalking]

Hmmm. Let's not slide into talking about what a pilgrim is.
The OP asked about pride and taking being a peregrino as an ego stance. Which another gnarly topic altogether.

 

[TSchulen]

One thing I learned very quickly - No matter how far I walked, someone walked farther. No matter how heavy my pack is, someone had a heavier pack. And, no matter how many times I will walk the Camino, there will be someone who has walked it more.

 

[trecile]

There are several dictionary definitions of pilgrim

Definition of pilgrim

1: one who journeys in foreign lands : WAYFARER
2: one who travels to a shrine or holy place as a devotee
3capitalized : one of the English colonists settling at Plymouth in 1620

I like #1 and @Tincatinker 's

I am a pilgrim: a traveler who is on a journey. And who knows or has care of where that journey may take me but me?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

What is the definition of a pilgrim?

 

[Kurt5280]

I flew to Israel to see Old Jerusalem...I took a train to Rome to see Vatican City...and I mountain biked the Camino Frances from SJPdP to see Santiago...I never felt any difference...but for me all three of these Pilgrimages were for Religious reasons...basically my attempt "to find (connect with) God".

However the Camino Santiago has more to it...so many people distract themselves with the method of travel and not the end result...so on the Camino...did you find God...did you find inner peace...did you connect with other Pilgrims...maybe something more personal like you learned something about yourself...or maybe something more profound like you survived the Camino and became a better person?

After I completed the Camino Frances for religious reasons...I continued to Finisterre and Muxia for personal reasons...basically to find closure on several personal issues...and at the Cathedral in Muxia I found closure to those issues and my Camino ended.

Recently I mountain biked the Camino del Norte from Bayonne to Santiago then on to Muxia and Finisterre...but my goal this time was for adventure and to find inner peace...so it was very different experience than my first Camino.

Remember every Pilgrim on the Camino is there for a reason...and it is the reason...that is important!

 

[nycwalking]

The roundabout query.

Only you, Santiago, and God know.

 

[tomnorth]

A pilgrimage is an experience, not an accomplishment, so the fact that someone takes a less arduous approach has no bearing on the value of my pilgrim experience. When I’m eighty years old, if I can still walk part of a Camino and hitch rides for some stretches, I’ll be a happy pilgrim.

 

[yaying]

Better than, worse than, equal to

in math there was no fair but a zero for balance

any form of comparing oneself to someone else

equality brings out complicated formula for complex problem
im good enough for +- only

 

[VNwalking]

@yaying !
Complex heartmath, maybe, but the solution is easier than we can imagine.

 

[yaying]

but the solution is easier than we can imagine

very true... we see right infront of us but we don't look.

 

[Kathor1]

complicated formula for complex problem

Nah, maths makes everything easy to understand, without confusing words and way too many of them, and that's really cool :

 

[yaying]

Nah, maths makes everything easy to understand, without confusing words and way too many of them, and that's really cool :
View attachment 48281

hmmm
what about
not on camino + on foot?

 

[rector]

That is the best answer yet
I had posed that deliberately provocative question because of something I had heard on U Tube where someone, walking their own sort of journey had been seriously abused by another pilgrim for not being what met their concept of what a pilgrim should be. I also meant it to be a bit of soul searching, because most people have felt some reasonable or
unreasonable aggravation whilst on the way, even if it is only poor me.

 

[Kathor1]

hmmm
what about not on camino + on foot?

Read the OP's question again. That's not in the assignment.

Edited to add: New emoji functions on the forum!!! This one stands for nerd.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

not being what met their concept of what a pilgrim should be

I think one needs a thicker skin to survive the camino (or life). It is way too "snowflake" to be worrying about what others think about your camino motivation!

That is just my opinion; I could be wrong.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I walked the Le Puy with two Camino friends. Our reasons for walking were all different. I said I was on an adventure and one of the friends said she was on vacation. The third gal said she was definately a pilgrim and was rather upset that we didn't consider ourselves one, as well. It bothered her to the point that she would try to convince us that we were pilgrims, too.

 

[Aesklepius]

Hmmmmm. I certainly found myself challenged by my own “unperegrino-like” thoughts of others as I woke up, worn, stinky, disheveled and tired, in Sarria to find so many shiny and sparkly walkers joining the path. Good lesson, though. That challenge helped me to understand the singularity of my Camino, for me, and that comparisons to others (or to my own other mental constructions of what my Camino should look like) were just me getting in my own way. As in meditation, thinking “I’ve got it! I’ve reached my destination!”, means that I haven’t, that I’ve more work ahead of me and that Life will provide more lessons. Pride doesn’t last very long. But then, I had no religious destination or physical goal to attain. Those things were a part of my Camino, which really became more about living in the “here, now and who” of each day, while making my way to somewhere else. I wrote a bit about it here: http://www.canadianyogi.com/jo-estoy-aqui.html

Thanks for the post...for a moment of Camino-thinking.

 

[Meggins]

I am not a true pilgrim, just a woman who loves walking the caminos for a variety of wonderful reasons which I've posted before on other threads.

Me too - likewise! ---)

 

[tpmchugh]

One thing I learned very quickly - No matter how far I walked, someone walked farther. No matter how heavy my pack is, someone had a heavier pack. And, no matter how many times I will walk the Camino, there will be someone who has walked it more.

And as they say in the best 'Westerns', no matter how fast you are on the draw, there is always someone faster

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Another hard question: can one be proud of being a humble pilgrim?

A person I knew would say "Are you humble if you know you're humble?" ☺

 

[Chris Gi]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

My dictionary just tells me that a pilgrim is someone who travels to a religious place. However, I don’t think it has to be on foot. After all, the Pilgrim Fathers who travelled to the USA to escape religious persecution came by boat. I am sure some of the original Camino Pilgrims would occasionally opt for a donkey.

 

[Rover]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

What's important is how YOU see it. For me, arriving in Santiago after walking six extraordinary weeks was an emotional rush that would be difficult to replicate by landing in Santiago by bus, train our plane. That said, however you arrive does not make you a more or lesser pilgrim.

 

[Former member 81810]

Being a pilgrim is personal, its what your heart feels. For me walking to Santiago was not enough, I had to visit the crypt and pray to St James before I felt I had completed my pilgramage.

 

[DirtAmy]

Nancy L Frey (Pilgrim Stories: On and Off the Road to Santiago, Journeys Along an Ancient Way in Modern Spain) says pilgrimage to Rome and Jerusalem etc are about the destination, pilgrimage to Santiago is about the journey. She makes an interesting point.

 

[trecile]

Nancy L Frey (Pilgrim Stories: On and Off the Road to Santiago, Journeys Along an Ancient Way in Modern Spain) says pilgrimage to Rome and Jerusalem etc are about the destination, pilgrimage to Santiago is about the journey. She makes an interesting point.

And that would be her experience.

 

[Aidan21]

Are we not all pilgrims all the time whether we realize it or not? Are we not all on our journey through life? Whether we are on the Camino or not, or in Rome/Jerusalem/Mecca/etc. or not, I think we are always on our journey, a journey of life long learning and a quest for what is truly important.

 

[Kurt5280]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

During the Camino Frances I saw a woman crying and hiking with a twisted ankle swollen twice normal size...I saw a man pushing his physically disabled wife through the Meseta in a wheelchair...and another man traveling on a bus with his mentally disabled son...and in comparison to these Pilgrims I felt like I was on a vacation.

So from my personal experience of the "Who, What, & Why"...the Camino is about the "Why".

 

[rector]

And that would be her experience.

And I would feel drawn to agree with her as we are continually drawn by the pull of that journey and i would happily class my self as an addict.

 

[Albertagirl]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

@rector
I was not a pilgrim when I flew into Rome, although I did all the pilgrim things we had time for with my companion, who was a pilgrim. I was a pilgrim when I flew to and bused around England and Israel to visit some sites important to my Anglican faith. I am not sure if I am a pilgrim when I walk to Santiago, as it is not in itself a holy site for me. I identify myself in Spain as a Christian on a walking retreat, for which the camino de Santiago is well designed. So my conclusion is that I classify my journeys by my intentions and understand that others do the same.

 

[rector]

Hmmmmm. I certainly found myself challenged by my own “unperegrino-like” thoughts of others as I woke up, worn, stinky, disheveled and tired, in Sarria to find so many shiny and sparkly walkers joining the path. Good lesson, though. That challenge helped me to understand the singularity of my Camino, for me, and that comparisons to others (or to my own other mental constructions of what my Camino should look like) were just me getting in my own way. As in meditation, thinking “I’ve got it! I’ve reached my destination!”, means that I haven’t, that I’ve more work ahead of me and that Life will provide more lessons. Pride doesn’t last very long. But then, I had no religious destination or physical goal to attain. Those things were a part of my Camino, which really became more about living in the “here, now and who” of each day, while making my way to somewhere else. I wrote a bit about it here: http://www.canadianyogi.com/jo-estoy-aqui.html

Thanks for the post...for a moment of Camino-thinking.

Thats exactly where it got to me as well all those cleanagrinos that smelled nice and had their hair cut. That was until I started a couple of years later for a wee quick one and seen all those disgusting people who had walked for weeks if not months

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Do you mean a hat like the true pilgrims wore? (Just testing. )
View attachment 48267
[Edit: By the way, for those who never heard this (meant to be spoken)
Q. If April showers bring May flowers what do Mayflowers bring?
A. Pilgrims. ]

But only if they got off the Speedwell fast enough!

 

[mette]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

I think everybody walk their own Camino. They walk it the way they choose and all can be proud.
But I must admit that those who takes the bus, walk some km just to take the bus the rest...... I find it hard to call them pilgrims, but who am I to judge them. Maybe that’s the way they can do. When I walked the Camino this year they were called “Turistgrinos” off course not to them self.

 

[Albertagirl]

I wonder if the practice of bus tours to let off some passengers to walk a distance is a compliment to the walking pilgrims, an indication that to the general public there is something special about walking a pilgrim route. A friend of mine, who did part of the camino de Santiago by bus, mentioned that the bus had stopped to let passengers walk a distance, apparently so that they could share the experience of a walking pilgrim. I have gone on a bus pilgrimage in Israel, as well as walking caminos in Spain, and I did not really consider myself more (or less) a pilgrim because of my mode of transport. When I decided I was called to walk the camino de Santiago, I had never heard of the compostela, but it soon became a sign that I had accomplished something by walking a certain distance. I wonder what changes would occur in the idea of a camino if the compostela either did not exist or it was offered to everyone who professed a religious intention in traveling to Santiago by whatever means. I believe that this was an earlier practice.

 

[Hurry Krishna]

Nancy L Frey (Pilgrim Stories: On and Off the Road to Santiago, Journeys Along an Ancient Way in Modern Spain) says pilgrimage to Rome and Jerusalem etc are about the destination, pilgrimage to Santiago is about the journey. She makes an interesting point.

This is a very interesting point. And there are other writers too (Eg. Frederic Gros in A Philosophy of walking) who make the point about the significance of walking, or rather going by a non-motorised means, which is central to this particular pilgrimage. In other words, the special thing about the Camino is that the means by which you get to Santiago is important. Whereas in most other pilgrimages (most Christian and Hindu pilgrimages in fact) the important thing is to reach the destination whether Rome or Varanasi, by any means you can. So I can see why Camino walkers might be a little concerned to see the many pilgrims who are in fact walking only about half or less and taking buses and taxis for quite a lot, or even the majority of the way. I am not religious, so it doesn’t bother me what others do. But I can see why pilgrims, who have taken on board the importance of ‘walking to Santiago’ rather than just being in Santiago, might find it difficult to understand those who don’t demonstrate the same commitment to walking.

 

[Ahhhs]

Why is it necessary to label yourself (or others) at all?

 

[Antomuchacho]

we are all, our own biggest fans!!vanity, reasoning, purpose, goals!! And what others think☺vanity

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Why is it necessary to label yourself (or others) at all?

It reduces cognitive dissonance. Things fit better when they are part of a category. We are moving from labels and shorthand to emojis.

 

[Antomuchacho]

It reduces cognitive dissonance. Things fit better when they are part of a category. We are moving from labels and shorthand to emojis.

Thats going back too newtonian cartesian way of thinking

 

[Thornley]

The Spanish have a saying;
Quien va a Santiago y no al Salvador , visita al criado y no al Señor

 

[Antomuchacho]

Tòg a bògie

 

[Hurry Krishna]

I think this is a bit of an upside-down view . Until the 20th century, there was no such difference between a Christian pilgrimage to Santiago, Rome or Jerusalem. Pilgrims travelled any way they could - or could afford: on foot, on horseback, by boat, alone, in a group, with the staff of their household. And centuries later by coach, train, bus, car. While Rome and Jerusalem kept their attraction as a pilgrimage destination, Santiago lost its third place in the list. Lourdes, Fatima, and other Marian destinations rose. But still today, groups from mainly Spanish parishes travel as pilgrims by bus to Santiago, just as pilgrims travel by bus to Rome.

The uniqueness of the "Camino de Santiago", ie walking it, is the fact that it was pushed and promoted for economic and political reasons in a form that just did not and does not exist for a way to Rome or to Jerusalem, and initially this promotion was not even aimed at walkers in the first place, and that secondly, several decades ago, Don Elías Valina and volunteer associations laid the foundations for the attractive infrastructure for walkers that we know today.

This is a fascinating discussion, Where can I read more about the process you are describing? Very keen to understand the political and economic process you mention,

 

[Hurry Krishna]

The Spanish have a saying;
Quien va a Santiago y no al Salvador , visita al criado y no al Señor

Can someone please translate this into English? Thank you

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

I am not a true pilgrim, just a woman who loves walking the caminos for a variety of wonderful reasons which I've posted before on other threads.

I'am totaly agree with you exept the Woman part.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Can someone please translate this into English? Thank you

Who goes to Santiago and not to the Savior, visits the servant and not the Lord

 

[williamlittig]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

Fans going to the Baseball Hall of Fame are Pilgrims too.

 

[Scott Fraser]

Another hard question: can one be proud of being a humble pilgrim?

Yes, if you use walking sticks. ....you know, “pride goeth...before the fall” Proverbs 16:18.

 

[Opa Theo]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

From birth to death everyone is on a pilgrimage. A person is fortunate if they understand this.

Sadly, so many people have desperate lives. Simply surviving and helping their families demands all their efforts.

Raising questions like who is a "pure pilgrim", etc reflects having the wealth and security to entertain such subtle distinctions.

 

[Johnvd]

Is it possible that the "truer" pilgrims are those who journey on, wherever and however, without feeling the need to pontificate about it on this forum?

 

[Hurry Krishna]

Is it possible that the "truer" pilgrims are those who journey on, wherever and however, without feeling the need to pontificate about it on this forum?

I think this is a pretty interesting discussion. And there are many other more practical things on the forum if this string is not to everyone’s taste.

 

[Thegoatwoman]

Very interesting discussion....
As a person who is about to walk from Sarria over 8 days and will find even that a struggle I feel it is not for any of us to judge another's motivation and just be kind whatever.....

 

[Hurry Krishna]

Very interesting discussion....
As a person who is about to walk from Sarria over 8 days and will find even that a struggle I feel it is not for any of us to judge another's motivation and just be kind whatever.....

Buen Camino! Hope you have a wonderful 8 days or however long. One of my dearest friends did Sarria to Santiago in 12 days and had the best time ever. She learnt more about the road and about each of the towns on the way than most who rush through.

 

[Ernesto.IT]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

P5310286.JPG

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

 

[ginniek]

My dictionary just tells me that a pilgrim is someone who travels to a religious place. However, I don’t think it has to be on foot. After all, the Pilgrim Fathers who travelled to the USA to escape religious persecution came by boat. I am sure some of the original Camino Pilgrims would occasionally opt for a donkey.

Actually, 1000 years ago some hired people to carry them, as well as their bags.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

It is all in the intent of the pilgrimage. That can be different for each of us, what we are seeking to receive for our efforts. Just my view.

 

[Mazzy]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

pilgrim
/ˈpɪlɡrɪm/
noun

1. 1 a person who journeys to a sacred place for religious reasons.
   synonyms:visitor to a shrine, worshipper, devotee, believer, traveller, wayfarer, crusader; More
   
   
   2.
   a member of the Pilgrim Fathers.
2. verbARCHAIC
   
   
3. 1.travel or wander like a pilgrim.

"he pilgrimed to his old sporting places"

Well FWIW I am planning to walk the Camino Frances in spring next year and I would place myself firmly in the 'travel or wander' category or perhaps 'wayfarer'. My journey started as soon as I made the decision to go and I've spent hours poring over websites, plotting my journey and selling stuff I don't need to save money for my trip. I consider myself a pilgrim already! I can only take a maximum of 4 weeks total so I'll have to miss parts (still to be decided which parts) so does that make me less of a pilgrim compared to you? I personally don't believe so but you can if you like

 

[Debora]

Another hard question: can one be proud of being a humble pilgrim?

Proud - AND - humble?? I'm not sure those two words work together...at least for me.

 

[Ernesto.IT]

The attachment in the previous post says that the albergue in question will only admit "those pilgrims that have completed the camino on foot, by bicycle or on horseback. Those who arrive by bus or other motorized transport cannot stay the night." No problem with it, we know that such albergues exist.

However, some people turn this on its head and think it means that only people who have completed the camino on foot, by bicycle or on horseback are pilgrims. That's a fallacy. And it's not even what the notice says.

That is the albergue municipal in Fisterre, and these are the rule in all the municipal albergues in Spain including only one night stopping unless you got a medical certificate and they should be respected until you are in Spain, to compensate I am sure you would be alright in the many other private places you can find all over the nation.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Proud - AND - humble?? I'm not sure those two words work together

So being satisfied with an accomplishment is a bad thing? If you mean boastful by the word "proud," I can understand. But I am proud of my children, and I don't think that is a bad thing. I am proud that I have made pilgrimages, and I don't think that is a bad thing. I am proud to help others walk the Camino, and I don't think that is a bad thing. I am proud that I met others and learned things on the Camino, and I don't think those are bad things.

Words can be imprecise, so perhaps I am not understanding what you mean. Often what we hear is not what was said.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Your post has lots of good food for thought. I might mention that there is another subgroup of those that "walk from their front door". It's not an option for me as I'd be swimming across the ocean. I don't really mind all of the subgroups and haven't given it any thought before.

My one shameful act is when I walked my first camino and noticed the walkers with small daypacks. I teasingly pointed to them ahead of me while saying to my walking companions... "Jacotran!" Not very nice of me at the time. I've learned from this forum to not be judgemental any more as when I read many of the health reasons of "why" the service is used, I have empathy. Better to use a daypack than not get to experience the joy at all. And when I woke up after my first day out of Le Puy last year and could barely move from back/hip pain, I needed to use the service myself a few days. I was chastised within myself and will never tease about Jacotrans again.
Sometimes I think I haven't learned much to self improve, as others have, by walking caminos, but I think this at least has been one positive thing I learned.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Jean-Christophe Rufin has an accurate as well as funny description of the hierarchy of long distance walking pilgrims in his book Immortelle randonnée, Compostelle malgré moi. It made me aware of its existence and it also makes me giggle each time I read it.

You are much more inquisitive and smarter than me, and probably speak fluent French, if the book's title in any indication. I speak no foreign languages other than a few simple words, so that title would send me running! Lol.

 

[Jean & Claude]

One thing I learned very quickly - No matter how far I walked, someone walked farther. No matter how heavy my pack is, someone had a heavier pack. And, no matter how many times I will walk the Camino, there will be someone who has walked it more.

.....and you all humble and amaze me ...

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Possibly... but on a deeper level maybe I was a wee bit jelous of the Jacotran pilgrims? Not sure, but I wouldn't put it past me!

(And no, I'm not going to remove the first nine words of my previous post! I've read other musings by you on different threads and my words still stand!) ☺

 

[Devereaux]

Someone had posted this before, but it speaks so eloquently to this question:

 

[Bristle Boy]

As someone who considered himself a Pilgrim when I flew into Rome and considered himself a Pilgrim when I got the bus into Jerusalem, am I more or less of a Pilgrim when I walk into Santiago than someone who arrived by train, bus or aircraft. Or do I just have superiority problems?

Did you have an inferiority problem in Rome and/or Jerusalem? Personally, you made the journey for your own good reasons so stop worrying pilgrim! Personally, again, I don’t think you are either more or less! You’ve journied...and arrived!

 

[Ernesto.IT]

Jean-Christophe Rufin has an accurate as well as funny description of the hierarchy of long distance walking pilgrims in his book Immortelle randonnée, Compostelle malgré moi. It made me aware of its existence and it also makes me giggle each time I read it.

I like the "randonnèe" word.

 

[robertt]

As an authentic tourist and dawdler I'm disturbed by all these pilgrims crowding out the Camino. They're especially hard to avoid in France where one is expected to check out of hotels by 10 AM.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I like the "randonnèe" word.

Yes! "Hiking", but I had to look it up as at first I assumed it was in Spanish!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

As an authentic tourist and dawdler I'm disturbed by all these pilgrims crowding out the Camino. They're especially hard to avoid in France where one is expected to check out of hotels by 10 AM.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Did you have an inferiority problem in Rome and/or Jerusalem? Personally, you made the journey for your own good reasons so stop worrying pilgrim! Personally, again, I don’t think you are either more or less! You’ve journied...and arrived!

Hi BB!

 

[Bristle Boy]

Hi BB!

Oh hi CC! ...we are getting around!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Oh hi CC! ...we are getting around!

Yes, broadening our horizens, and offering words of wisdom to help others! ☺

 

[Bristle Boy]

Yes, broadening our horizens, and offering words of wisdom to help others! ☺

I’ve pm’d Chris...hope this is ok?

 

[trecile]

but on a deeper level maybe I was a wee bit jelous of the Jacotran pilgrims?

I've never been jealous of them. I like that I'm self sufficient and have the freedom to stop walking anywhere that I want.

 

[rector]

Hi DevereUX
Great to hear that, as I recited that at my Father's funeral 12years ago, I am sure, though that it was not quite up to the same standard as Sean. Many thanks

 

[rector]

Did you have an inferiority problem in Rome and/or Jerusalem? Personally, you made the journey for your own good reasons so stop worrying pilgrim! Personally, again, I don’t think you are either more or less! You’ve journied...and arrived!

I really have such a high opinion of myself, that I do not worry about being superior!!!!!!!!

 

[Bristle Boy]

I really have such a high opinion of myself, that I do not worry about being superior!!!!!!!!

...surely you’re “not serious”!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I've never been jealous of them. I like that I'm self sufficient and have the freedom to stop walking anywhere that I want.

I totally agree! Was just pondering why I had fixated on them...not sure if it was even jealousy.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

...surely you’re “not serious”!

Surely he's not! Probably just displaying your type of humor, BB! There are no superior acting individuals on this forum, are there?

 

[Bristle Boy]

Surely he's not! Probably just displaying your type of humor, BB! There are no superior acting individuals on this forum, are there?

Absolutely not...we are all pilgrims in his footsteps!

 

[rector]

pilgrim
/ˈpɪlɡrɪm/
noun

1. 1 a person who journeys to a sacred place for religious reasons.
   synonyms:visitor to a shrine, worshipper, devotee, believer, traveller, wayfarer, crusader; More
   
   
   2.
   a member of the Pilgrim Fathers.
2. verbARCHAIC
   
   
3. 1.travel or wander like a pilgrim.

"he pilgrimed to his old sporting places"

Well FWIW I am planning to walk the Camino Frances in spring next year and I would place myself firmly in the 'travel or wander' category or perhaps 'wayfarer'. My journey started as soon as I made the decision to go and I've spent hours poring over websites, plotting my journey and selling stuff I don't need to save money for my trip. I consider myself a pilgrim already! I can only take a maximum of 4 weeks total so I'll have to miss parts (still to be decided which parts) so does that make me less of a pilgrim compared to you? I personally don't believe so but you can if you like

I have walked the Classic Frances twice and large chunks several more time, we are, I hope, walking From Astorga to Santiago in September I think it will be the fifth or sixth time for much of that route. The first time I walked I had my reasons, but what I found was the spiritual shower that I experienced was so deep and intense that it draws me back and back again and most of the above have been true at various times.
What I have found though is that most people have some difficulties with others on the way and we all have attitudes that are inherent within us or are manufactured on the Way
And my reason for the post was not a personal opinion at all, but rather a challenge to us to be more introspective and thereby challenge our own pre conceived ideas of others.

 

[rector]

...surely you’re “not serious”!

If you truly believe that you do not understand Northern Irish humour and perhaps are even P.C.

 

[Bristle Boy]

If you truly believe that you do not understand Northern Irish humour and perhaps are even P.C.

I didn’t rise above the rank of PC! So I can’t say I became superior...that’s a bit of West Country “not serious humour”

 

[rector]

I didn’t rise above the rank of PC! So I can’t say I became superior...that’s a bit of West Country “not serious humour”

i understand that as I am frequently in Bristol Great cider and great humour hows your combined harvester

 

[Bristle Boy]

i understand that as I am frequently in Bristol Great cider and great humour hows your combined harvester

Well bless you..it’s combined with another!
P.s the ciders a great leveller...in the horizontal sense!

 

[rector]

Well bless you..it’s combined with another!

You Wurrzle (iffy spelling) you

 

[Bristle Boy]

You Wurrzle (iffy spelling) you

That’s me...however you spell it!