Ancient churches on the San Salvador, Primitivo, and Via de la Plata

[VNwalking]

Looking around online for some information about a virtual Camino de las Asturias, I stumbled across this beautiful article that describes some of the oldest churches in Spain, in detail and with photographs.

The Ancient Churches of Spain

I would like to call attention to some of the ancient churches of Western Europe which predate the Great Schism. These churches offer a glimpse of Western Orthodoxy as it once was, and as such, off…

orthodoxartsjournal.org

Then, as one does, I went down a deep rabbit hole, reading of the few churches that remain from the time before the Conquista. It is fascinating, and tantalizing. These churches are essentially Byzantine, late Roman - called Visigothic as a nod to the Visigoths, the people who had come to rule after the last remnants of the Roman Empire unraveled in Iberia.

Here are some of the more significant rabbit holes, for your enjoyment:
This shows the various churches in Asturias that are recognized by UNESCO, a surprising number.

Monuments of Oviedo and the Kingdom of the Asturias

In the 9th century the flame of Christianity was kept alive in the Iberian peninsula in the tiny Kingdom of the Asturias. Here an innovative pre-Romanesque architectural style was created that was to play a ...

whc.unesco.org

These other two sites are more general:

Asturian architecture - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Culture in Asturias. Asturian pre-Romanesque art.

Pre-Romanesque Art came about with the Asturian Monarchy beginning in the 9th century. Nowadays, some examples of this unique art are still preserved.

www.turismoasturias.es

The churches the Visigoth kings built predate the Camino itself and are our windows into a deep past, very precious links to ages that we can only glimse from afar. Only a handful of Visigothic churches are left in Spain — most were lost in the Conquista or to later renovations. Much of what remains are in the far North., and many have UNESCO recognition. They are beautiful in a totally different way than we are used to seeing with Romanesque and Gothic architecture.

In Asturias, and around Oviedo in particular, you could easily spend a day or two visiting the several Visigthic churches. So heads-up if you are walking the Primativo or San Salvador. At the very least do not miss to visit San Julian in Oviedo; the Wikipedia article says this:

The earliest and grandest is the church of San Julian de los Prados, built c. 830 in the Asturian capital, Oviedo.

From http://www.spainisculture.com/en/monumentos/asturias/iglesia_de_san_julian_de_los_prados.html

San Tirso is also central, right beside the Cathedral of Oviedo.

About a km North of Oviedo is Santa Maria del Naranco (Left, below), built as a palace in 848, and repurposed later to be used as a church. Santa Cristina de Lena (Right below), about 25 km south of Oviedo and a very short way off the Camino San Salvador, was built adjacent to the Roman road joining the Messta with Asturias. If you walk right by you are missing a jewel!

L: From https://www.turismoasturias.es/docu...b-305c-4bfc-b6ac-a1687fb2af4a?t=1389204123847
R: From https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._de_Lena.jpg/330px-Santa_Cristina_de_Lena.jpg

The UNESCO report highlights the importance of the remarkable preservation of two of these buildings:

[In]San Julian de los Prados and Santa Maria de Naranco Churches, the constructions are conserved in their entirety and original state, with the exception of ad hoc transformations or modifications over time.

Asturias has most but not all of these churches.
A few days walk from Burgos, on the Camino San Olav, is Santa Maria de Lara. It is a tantalizing fragment of the original structure, with beautiful very natural carvings visible on the outside. The inside is also said to be special but it was closed when I went there a good Friday.
View media item 4874
Santa Lucía del Trampal is much farther to the south on the VdlP, a short detour between Aljucen and Alcuéscar.

it's possible to visit the basilica on the way to Alcuéscar. You turn right on agricultural tracks shortly after the Cruz del Niño Muerto, about 16km from Aljucén, and head across wooden country to the basilica. The path on to Alcuéscar is well marked and easy. The detour adds about 1km to the day, and if you're starting from Aljucén it would be easy to get there while the interior of the church is open (until 2pm, or after 4 or 5pm if coming from Mérida).

It's an astonishingly lovely simple church, and thinking that it survived from before the moorish occupation makes it very special. The setting is serenely lovely as well, with warm springs nearby, and rolling dehesa around it. There is evidence that it was a sacred site before the Romans arrived in Spain.

If there is one lesson from this rabbit hole, it is the benefit of reading a bit before heading off on any camino. It would be all too easy to waltz right past these remarkable ghosts of the past, oblivious to their importance.
Buen camino when we can, amigx!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Thanks, @VNwalking, for doing all the research and for sharing it, so we can enjoy the compilation of your efforts, a real treat... I love this rabbit hole.

 

[VNwalking]

I love this rabbit hole.

Me too, Chris!
Does anyone who's visited these churches have any first-hand experiences?

 

[Pelegrin]

Sta. Comba de Bande in Galicia is also Visigothic, second half of 7th century.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

VN, I was to start my camino last April in Oviedo and had planned to visit Santa Maria de Naranco; I see two others you have listed in the area...hopefully next spring...fingers crossed!

 

[VNwalking]

Thanks, @Pelegrin! This yields another deep amd wonderful rabbit hole! The photos in the screenshot don't do justice to the ceiling.

SANTA COMBA DE BANDE - Turismo Prerrománico

Primera iglesia visigoda cruciforme, construida poco después de San Fructuoso de Montelios.

www.turismo-prerromanico.com

Rotonda - Ermita de Santa Comba (Bande, Ourense, España)

Ficha y descripción de la Ermita de Santa Comba, 575-600 (Bande, Ourense, España). Planta: Cruz griega. Estilo: Visigodo

plantacentral.wixsite.com

 

[VNwalking]

hopefully next spring

May it be so!

 

[oursonpolaire]

As well, the Camino Vadiniense offers us the church of San Miguel de Escalada, easily accessible from the Francese 14km ENE of Mansilla de las Mulas. Only dating from 951, its interior gives us a clue of how the Mozarabic period in the Spanish church reminds us of the Byzantine inclination of an altar behind a screen or iconostasis. It takes 3 hours walking up a country road (and 3 back!) but this vision from a thousand years ago justifies the excursion. Besides, they have a really great sello.

Those who are really interested in this topic could do worse than pick up Janice Mann's Romanesque Architecture and its Sculptural Decoration in Christian Spain 1000-1120 published by the University of Toronto Press, a very readable (for an academic work!!) which gives a background for the history and culture of the period. It gives many examples from along the Aragonese, for fans of that obscure but fascinating route.

 

[Pelegrin]

Asturias, Leon, North Portugal and Galicia formed the Swabian kingdom (409-585) with capital in Braga (Portugal).
That monarchy was arian untill year 550. There isn't any building left in Portugal and Spain from that period.
I wonder if some of those Visigothics churches could have been Swabians before.

 

[rappahannock_rev]

And here's a plug for a place I've tried several times to visit but never found open, Santa Maria de los Arcos in Tricio, a few short clicks south of the Camino Frances just before you get to Najera.

A Visigothic church built using the rubble of Roman ruins!

Spain. La Rioja. Tricio. Santa Maria de los Arcos Church. Interior with roman columns lining the sanctuary. Arches and domes are visigoths Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: Spain. La Rioja. Tricio. Santa Maria de los Arcos Church. Interior with roman columns lining the sanctuary. Arches and domes are visigoths. - HWEFB4 from Alamy's library of millions of high resolution stock photos, illustrations and vectors.

www.alamy.com

 

[peregrina2000]

Does anyone who's visited these churches have any first-hand experiences?

Asking that question is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. I have walked to most, and have visited a couple of the off-camino ones by car. IMHO, there is nothing like sitting inside one of these beautiful, irregularly shaped ancient works of love and devotion to get the reflective juices flowing — not that I think great thoughts, but it is such a peaceful place to think about the meaning of it all.

Primitivo — I have never thought of it this way, but in terms of ancient churches, I guess the Primitivo wins hands down. And if you walk into Oviedo from the Norte to start the Primitivo, you can add Valdediós to your itinerary, and it is truly one of the most beautiful. It is a well marked slight off-camino walk from Villaviciosa and on the way to Pola de Siero. So totally worth it.

For me personally, if I were pressed for time in Oviedo, the Naranco sites are far more beautiful (though much more heavily touristed) than San Julián de los Prados. It is the biggest, but its size makes it less human, and less peaceful, I think.

The last time I walked the Primitivo, I thought about trying to find my way to San Pedro de Nora, but in the end didn’t.

Vdlp — Santa Lucía de Trampal is gorgeous. @alansykes‘s detour GPS in between Aljucén and Alcuéscar is all you need. It’s in a beautiful rural setting, so you can enjoy the outside from many angles. The inside has been re-done and there is a visitors’ center with many informational panels, but the church retains the essential simplicity.

Salvador — Santa Cristina de Lena is about 200 m off the Camino after Campomanes, and I cannot imagine how anyone walking the Salvador could bear to miss it. And the environs are incredibly pastoral and peaceful.

Vadiniense (or Francés)— OMG, San Miguel de la Escalada. From Gradefes to Mansilla de las Mulas on the Vadiniense, you pass right by. But it is only about 15 km from Mansilla de las Mulas, and it would be worth moving heaven and earth to get there. In fact, this was how I met Rebekah. Way back years ago, I posted on the forum about wanting to visit San Miguel from León and wondering about transportation. Reb answered that she would pick me up and take me there! She even brought a copy of the beautiful Beatus that was produced there for me to look at. Totally totally worth it. I visited it again on the Vadiniense.

Santa Comba de Bande — I don’t think this is near any camino (at least not any that I know of), but I once spent a glorious weekend in Galicia in that area and took the short drive from Celanova (a very pretty Galician town) to visit the church. And ruins of a Roman fort along the way. Celanova has its own monuments to visit, too!

And here's a plug for a place I've tried several times to visit but never found open, Santa Maria de los Arcos in Tricio

Thank you so much for the heads up. I think this is probably one of those places where you have to find the señora with the keys. But I would call ahead of time.
Teléfonos de Información: Guías, Nuria 620 923 644. Ayuntamiento de Tricio 941 36 10 57.

So, just to sum it all up with my opinions — of all of these, if you are looking for quiet, contemplative spots, where you will be overwhelmed by the humbling simplicity, I would recommend Valdediós and Santa Cristina de Lena as my “top two.”

 

[KinkyOne]

I was so anxious when Laurie is gonna chime in. And she did finally

 

[Pelegrin]

Another interesting old church is Iglesia de Santiago in Peñalba de Santiago that is in Valle del Silencio 14 kms from Ponferrada.
10th century.
It is Arte de Repoblación, that means churches that were built after the Reconquest with a mix of Visigothic and Mozarabe styles.
(Sorry I don't know how to copy sites in my mobile).

 

[VNwalking]

Asking that question is like waving a red flag in front of a bull.

Uh huh. It was not accidental.

Laurie, wow, wonderful.
Thank you.

OMG, San Miguel de la Escalada. From Gradefes to Mansilla de las Mulas on the Vadiniense, you pass right by. But it is only about 15 km from Mansilla de las Mulas, and it would be worth moving heaven and earth to get there.

It takes 3 hours walking up a country road (and 3 back!) but this vision from a thousand years ago justifies the excursion. Besides, they have a really great sello.

How did I never know about this!?! Well, now I do, and if I'm in that neck of the woods again, I won't be walking past without taking the detour to get there. @oursonpolaire, those photos are so evocative!

Another interesting old church is Iglesia de Santiago in Peñalba de Santiago

Larie's thread:https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...n-splendor-from-ponferrada-or-el-acebo.27697/

And her photos:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/iNPVgKk6Za4t7JzAhHrYll2bK4wEIXUmZqMws9t0HfSB7mJkts74zFfRSbNJ0I3zK9Vlk_OPYhHvOVSz4sZPYDVbkX3qHNY4az-Ld9Z7rf0=w765-h574

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oSU5le9vSKDHvpBQEBUtyzstmoAJjBde-wrxT2m-Ea6ywvkb7Gx1u-NI1V5fL4T1lB-wruDv-PDrPseRNMbFO18fuUpvIe3RkJIe_AQZ_Sc=w431-h574

I just saw that an American non-profit has donated 100,000€ to restore the paintings in the church in Peñalba de Santiago, the town where we spent night number 2 on this gorgeous circular walk from Ponferrada. https://www.infobierzo.com/un-mecen...uras-califales-de-santiago-de-penalba/398163/

I wonder what came of this?

I wonder if some of those Visigothics churches could have been Swabians before.

No doubt. One of these churches has even earlier roots, having been built atop a dolmen - which has been excavated. Now you can look through a little window in the floor to see it.

Edit - The comments section of the first of the links in my OP includes this (I just noticed it):

you might also include Sta Maria de Liébana, near Asturias in Cantabria. it too is pre-romanesque, with a distinctive drum and shallow dome–very Byzantine. the church sits in the hollow of seven mountains, and during a renovation in the 1970s, a large flat stone that had served for centuries as a step up to the altar was itself lifted, and discovered to be an ancient Celtic stele. with its location in the middle of the mountains, the church was evidently an ‘umbilicus mundi’ and a sacred place from time immemorial…

 

[VNwalking]

One of these churches has even earlier roots, having been built atop a dolmen - which has been excavated. Now you can look through a little window in the floor to see it.

This Ermita is not on any camino, but looks very interesting. (The old ones who had been buried there might have other opinions as to building of the church and then the uncovering of the dolmen so everyone can all oogle at it...)

Ermita de la Santa Cruz

La Capilla de la Santa Cruz tiene un destacado valor para la historia de Asturias y está declarada Bien de Interés Cultural (BIC).

www.turismoasturias.es

Church of Santa Cruz de Cangas de Onís - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://guiadeasturias.com/lugar/dolmen-la-iglesia-santa-cruz/&psig=AOvVaw0AQami4UKavLDl24beFVbx&ust=1595758429854000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwjj-ZHElejqAhWeGrcAHZn5DDsQr4kDegUIARCBAQ

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I was so anxious when Laurie is gonna chime in. And she did finally

So true! I feel the exact same way about her input.

 

[peregrina2000]

I was surprised to see in one of the links posted above that the fountain in Oviedo, Foncalada (at the end of the Gascona, the wild party cider-drinking street for those of you who spend more time in bars than looking at ancient architecture), is of Visigothic origin. I had always thought it was Roman, maybe because I walked by one that looks very similar on the Castellano-Aragonés, and the placard said it was Roman.

My journal says this was outside the hamlet of Muro, on the way to the tiny village of Pozalmuro, 200 m off camino.

 

[VNwalking]

I had always thought it was Roman

Well, only a few hundred years separates the tail-end of the dying Roman Empire (thinking the time of the plague of Justinian) and the early Visigothic times. Perhaps for humble utilitarian things like fuentes, building styles didn't change as much as for structures which have the potential to be vehicles for ostentatious displays of munificence and creativity.

 

[Pelegrin]

If the fountain is Visigothic, then was built from year 585, when they took control over the Swabian kingdom,. By then, they had converted to Catholicism and had better relations with the hispanoromans though still were the upper class.

 

[peregrina2000]

If the fountain is Visigothic, then was built from year 585, when they took control over the Swabian kingdom,. By then, they had converted to Catholicism and had better relations with the hispanoromans though still were the upper class.

And from what I see on the internet, the Roman settlement named Agustobriga, outside the hamlet of what is now called Muro, was built in the 1st century BC.

 

[AlanSykes]

Near the Plata (or on the Camino Zamorano Portugués) you will also find the visigothic church of San Pedro de la Nave. It was moved up the hill about a century ago when the site it used to be on was flooded for the Esla reservoir near Zamora. Lovely simple structure with some delicate carvings, including a very fine Isaac just about to sacrifice Jacob. Not desperately convenient for the Plata, but worth the detour (or take the Zamorano Portugués, a really lovely camino).

My favourite is the tiny visigothic chapel of Santa María de Lara (c690AD), near Quintanilla de las Viñas, either on the Camino de Sant Olav, or a couple of hours off the Ruta de la Lana, and a day or so north of Santo Domingo de los Silos (or south of Burgos). It has glorious stylised carvings inside and out - birds, beasts, flowers, vines etc. Inside there is what claims to be the earliest representation of Christ as Pantocrator in Spain, also an entirely pagan Sol Invictus which presumably didn't bother the (largely Arian heretic Visigoths) but would have given the vapours to any later Inquisitor who spotted it.



A couple of years ago I had a rest day in Burgos and took a day trip to Palencia, partly to see its "bella desconocida" cathedral (or, mainly, its visigothic crypt), but mostly to visit nearby San Juan de Baños (661AD), which some claim is the oldest visigothic church surviving in Spain, with its jaw-droppingly beautiful, almost mezquita-like polychromatic horseshoe arches, and handsome capitals (variations on a Corinthian theme).

And, if I ever do the Levante again, this time I will take the detour to have a look at another visigothic survival, Santa María de Melque, about 30km west of Toledo.

 

[Pelegrin]

, also an entirely pagan Sol Invictus which presumably didn't bother the (largely Arian heretic Visigoths) but would have given the vapours to any later Inquisitor who spotted it.

View attachment 79416

Very interesting reflexion. I would like to know how the Arians represented the Divinity .

 

[peregrina2000]

Not desperately convenient for the Plata, but worth the detour

I desperately searched for a way to get out to San Pedro de la Nave when I had a rest day in Zamora. That night, when discussing the matter with the Portuguese hospitalero (who also let me stay there two nights ) he offered to drive me out there the next day so he could see it as well. I then walked back, a very flat pleasant walk through lots of fields and a few small hamlets. I WILL walk the Zamorano-Portugués someday, and hope to get back to San Pedro. (I’ve added photos of San Pedro, the first three)

My favourite is the tiny visigothic chapel of Santa María de Lara (c690AD), near Quintanilla de las Viñas, either on the Camino de Sant Olav,

I think it was thanks to your post years ago, Alan, that I so wanted to walk the San Olav. Rebekah and I arrived outside the church a few minutes before opening, and were shocked to see that at precisely the opening time (which was five minutes after some hour, maybe 10 or 11), a young man with a guitar on a motorcycle rode up and opened it up for us. It was really a very wonderful visit. I remember that @VN had the bad luck to arrive there on Good Friday and was unable to visit, so she will just have to go back! I’ve added two pictures of the outside, as well as one of my other favorite inside carving (since Alan already posted my favorite!).

 

[andylm65]

I accidentally managed to visit 3 of these churches in 2018. And luckily ended up at LoS Monumentos on a free entry day, just after a huge bus tour group. I never knew about the rest. Hope to return some day.

 

[AJGuillaume]

There is beautiful Romanesque, or pre-Romanesque church in Valdedios, off the Norte from Villaviciosa

 

[VNwalking]

@VN had the bad luck to arrive there on Good Friday and was unable to visit, so she will just have to go back!

Indeed I did. And yes, please.
The problem with this coronavirus fallow time is that there is opportunity to find all sorts of places to walk and to visit, so the list grows ever longer. But I have to give s shout out to all the gift-givers on this thread. It feels like opening presents within presents within presents. These are clearly places to seek out and savor.

There is beautiful Romanesque, or pre-Romanesque church in Valdedios, off the Norte from Villaviciosa

Consecrated in 893. Which counts as Visigothic.

Church of San Salvador de Valdediós - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

SAN SALVADOR DE VALDEDIÓS - Turismo Prerrománico

San Salvador de Valdedios church popularly called 'El Conventín' is the last great work of the Asturian art.

www.turismo-prerromanico.com

There are, of course, more rabbit holes. The several-centuries that constitute the segue from late Roman Empire to something else were a complicated time, not just in Spain. So of course there is plenty of debate in professional circles about the Byzantine and Visigothic in Spain. Maybe it's TMI, but this blogpost was fascinating:

Looking for Byzantium in Spain at Oxford

Another event from the diminishing pile of things I have yet to report from when I was in Oxford is a one-day conference organised by some of the small crowd of temporary Hispanists among whom I wa…

tenthmedieval.wordpress.com

She describes Sta Maria de Trampal by saying "Who knows whether this is really ‘Visigothic’ in any meaningful way but it’s a really odd little building…"

 

[VNwalking]

About half-way between Soria and Logroño up in the Sierra is this place, mentioned in the maybe TMI blogpost above. Fascinating.

Sign in - Google Accounts

Castillo de Los Monjes · Ctra. Logroño, 26126 Lumbreras, La Rioja, Spain

âââââ · Historical landmark

www.google.com

 

[VNwalking]

San Juan de Baños (661AD), which some claim is the oldest visigothic church surviving in Spain, with its jaw-droppingly beautiful, almost mezquita-like polychromatic horseshoe arches, and handsome capitals (variations on a Corinthian theme).

Iglesia de San Juan de Baños

La Basílica de San Juan de Baños, considerada una obra maestra del arte visigodo, fue mandada levantar por el rey Recesvinto en el año 661

arteviajero.com

The carved stone windows in these visigothic churches are also pretty impressive.

(L From site indicated on photo)
(Rt From https://www.tripadvisor.com/Locatio...ia_Province_of_Palencia_Castile_and_Leon.html)

 

[Pelegrin]

About half-way between Soria and Logroño up in the Sierra is this place, mentioned in the maybe TMI blogpost above. Fascinating.

Sign in - Google Accounts

Castillo de Los Monjes · Ctra. Logroño, 26126 Lumbreras, La Rioja, Spain

âââââ · Historical landmark

www.google.com

I haven't heard of "castros visigodos" before, but yes on Internet there are some more, one of them near Madrid in La Cabrera.
In Galicia there aren't "castros suevos". What I know about the suevos is that they lived mainly in Roman cities like Braga, Lugo, and Astorga and that they liked very much thermal waters, so they founded places like Guitiriz and Mondariz.
So nothing to do with living in defensive castros.

 

[jungleboy]

Just popped in to say that I love this thread! I’m on a ‘staycation’ at the moment and when that finishes in a few days, I’ll participate properly here. Thanks to everyone for their links and insights!

 

[VNwalking]

Thanks, @jungleboy and we look forward to seeing what you come up with.

suevos

I had to look that up. Thanks @Pelegrin, I've learned something today. ☺

 

[Pelegrin]

Thanks, @jungleboy and we look forward to seeing what you come up with.


I had to look that up. Thanks @Pelegrin, I've learned something today. ☺

Appart from thermal waters, the Suevos, like other Germanic tribes, were also fascinated by wolves.
And because that, there is a Fresulfe in Portugal, a Friolfe in Galicia and a Frexulfe in Asturias where ulfe is obviously wolves and fre, fri is German Frei.

 

[KinkyOne]

Appart from thermal waters, the Suevos, like other Germanic tribes, were also fascinated by wolves.
And because that, there is a Fresulfe in Portugal, a Friolfe in Galicia and a Frexulfe in Asturias where ulfe is obviously wolves and fre, fri is German Frei.

Also wolf in German is wulf which is even closer to "ulfe" you mentioned.

 

[Pelegrin]

Plura

Also wolf in German is wulf which is even closer to "ulfe" you mentioned.

And plural is wölfe.

 

[VNwalking]

So 'free wolf,' it makes me wonder if they had some ritual of capturing and then freeing a wolf?

 

[Pelegrin]

I

So 'free wolf,' it makes me wonder if they had some ritual of capturing and then freeing a wolf?

I think that dogs at that time could look very similar to wolves and they evoluted to the current "Can de Palleiro" breed. So Fre in this case would be wild. But this is just a speculation of mine.

 

[KinkyOne]

So 'free wolf,' it makes me wonder if they had some ritual of capturing and then freeing a wolf?

Or maybe an admiration. "Free wolf" as "Freigeist" (very loosely "free spirited"), independent, self-sufficient etc.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The opposite of free wolves, corraled wolves. Not completely off the topic of old architecture though. An excellent example of a wolf trap used in Iberia. Use Chrome to get an English translation.

http://www.arquitecturapopular.es/auxiliares/corral-de-lobos-lubian.htm

 

[Rebekah Scott]

So much great stuff on this thread... I am a great fan of Visigothic and Romanesque, and can recommend a little Pre-romanesque wonder on the Camino de Madrid: the church at Wamba! (just after Simancas in Valladolid province.) It has survived since Visigothic times, and it's got the same stamp as the Church of Sta. Maria de Lebana in Cantabria (mentioned above, on the Camino Labaniego) as well as the splendid Quintanilla de las Vinas in Burgos province (which I explored with Laurie on a trip up the Camino San Olav) and the magnificent San Braulio de Berlanga in Soria (which I somehow relate to the Camino de Lana, but I could be wrong!) Wamba has some wonderful and ancient paintings, and a creepy ossuary full of skulls and bones!
A very good resource for all things Spanish Romanesque is Fundacion Santa Maria Real in Aguilar de Campos, here in Palencia... on the Camino Olvidado. https://www.santamarialareal.org/. Their tours, courses, and publications taught me a lot of what I know about Romanesque.
Them, and bashing around with Peregrina2000.

 

[peregrina2000]

There is beautiful Romanesque, or pre-Romanesque church in Valdedios, off the Norte from VillaviciosaView attachment 79436

And there is an albergue there as well. The church itself doesn’t open till 11, and it’s only about 6 km from Villaviciosa, so it means either a late start or hanging out in the lovely valley near the church for a while. Walking up and out of the valley, you have to keep turning around to soak in the beautiful views. It is one of the most wonderful of the wonderful list of churches VN has given us.

The first time I was there, the albergue was in very awful conditions. The last time it was spotless. Could that have anything to do with the fact that the first time I was there, the monks were in charge, and the last time the nuns had taken over the albergue?

The nuns had recently arrived and were so excited waiting for the arrival of the statue of Mary that had been specially carved for them in their new home. It seemed to me that there was some sort of hospedería adjacent to the albergue, but I don’t see anything about that on their website, so maybe it has closed, or maybe I imagined it.

For anyone walking from the Norte to Oviedo to start the Primitivo this is a must-stop place, IMO.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[VNwalking]

Oh, my. I thought there were fewer of these oldies than there are...thank you everyone.
@Rebekah Scott , that website looks like a gold mine. A pity that those of us with a mere few words of Castiliano would be lost on one of the tours, but just looking at their content is a treat.

 

[VNwalking]

I have just found these wonderful websites, giving lots of information about Pre-romanesque in Asturias and Cantabria:

Arte Prerrománico. Asturias (ARTEGUIAS)

Centro Prerrománico Asturiano

Centro Prerrománico Asturiano

www.prerromanicoasturiano.es

The latter is the portal for information about many of the sites, and for an interpretive museum, the
Centro de Recepción e Interpretación Prerromanico Asturiano in Pavia not far from the Norte. It looks wonderful!

To quell confusion and to put everything on one page, here is a summary list from this thread, our crowdsourced camino connections (there are some duplications when a place is accessible from 2 caminos; @peregrina2000 , @alansykes , @Rebekah Scott , @Pelegrin , @oursonpolaire, and anyone who knows better, please feel free to correct me if I have missed or misrepresented something, or to add to the list! Thanks.):
,
Camino de Madrid —
Wamba

Side trip from Norte —
San Juan Apostol y Evangelista (Santianes de Pavia)(6.9 km from Muros de Nalon)

Norte to Primitivo —
Valdediós

Primitivo (Oviedo and environs; distances from city centre) —
Camara Santa of Oviedo Cathedral
Santa Maria del Naranco (3.2km NW)
Santa Maria de Bendones (6.4km SE; may be near Camino de las Asturias)
San Julián de los Prados (1.3km NE)
San Pedro de Nora (11km W)
San Tirso (19km SE)
San Miguel de Lillo (3.4km NW)
San Adriano de Tuñon (Near Rio Trubia, ~20km SW)

San Olav —
Santa Maria de Lara (Quintanillas de las Viñas)

San Salvador —
Santa Cristina de Lena

Side trip from Frances —
Santa Maria de los Arcos in Tricio (2.6km SE of Najera, closer to the camino)
San Miguel de Escalada (14.3km NE of Mansilla de las Mulas)
Iglesia de Santiago in Peñalba de Santiago (from Ponferrada or El Acebo)

Side trip from Sanabres—
Santa Comba de Bande (~49km SW of Ourense)

side trip from Vdlp —
Santa Lucía de Trampal
San Pedro de la Nave (22 km from Zamora)

Vadiniense—
San Miguel de Escalada

Zamorano Portugués —
San Pedro de la Nave (22 km from Zamora)

 

[Pelegrin]

I have just found these wonderful websites, giving lots of information about Pre-romanesque in Asturias and Cantabria:

Arte Prerrománico. Asturias (ARTEGUIAS)

Centro Prerrománico Asturiano

Centro Prerrománico Asturiano

www.prerromanicoasturiano.es

The latter is the portal for information about many of the sites, and for an interpretive museum, the
Centro de Recepción e Interpretación Prerromanico Asturiano in Pavia not far from the Norte. It looks wonderful!

To quell confusion and to put everything on one page, here is a summary list from this thread, our crowdsourced camino connections (there are some duplications when a place is accessible from 2 caminos; @peregrina2000 , @alansykes , @Rebekah Scott , @Pelegrin , @oursonpolaire, and anyone who knows better, please feel free to correct me if I have missed or misrepresented something, or to add to the list! Thanks.):
,
Camino de Madrid —
Wamba

Side trip from Norte —
San Juan Apostol y Evangelista (Santianes de Pavia)(6.9 km from Muros de Nalon)

Norte to Primitivo —
Valdediós

Primitivo (Oviedo and environs; distances from city centre) —
Santa Maria de Naranco (3.2km NW)
Santa Maria de Bendones (6.4km SE; may be near Camino de las Asturias)
San Julián de los Prados (1.3km NE)
San Pedro de Nora (11km W)
San Tirso (19km SE)
San Miguel de Lilo (3.4km NW)
San Adriano de Tuñon (Near Rio Trubia, ~20km SW)

San Olav —
Santa Maria de Lana

San Salvador —
Santa Cristina de Lena

Side trip from Frances —
Santa Maria de los Arcos in Tricio (2.6km SE of Najera, closer to the camino)
San Miguel de la Escalada (14.3km NE of Mansilla de las Mulas)
Iglesia de Santiago in Peñalba de Santiago (from Ponferrada or El Acebo)

Side trip from Sanabres—
Santa Comba de Bande (~12km SW of Ourense)

side trip from Vdlp —
Santa Lucía de Trampal
San Pedro de la Nave

Vadiniense—
San Miguel de la Escalada

Zamorano Portugués —
San Pedro de la Nave

Very good summary!!
Let me give you two minor corrections:
Santa Maria del Naranco.
San Miguel de Lillo.

 

[Davey Boyd]

I have fond memories of walking the San Salvador with a Spanish guy and visiting Santa Cristina de Lena. My understanding is it is often closed but on this day when we got there there was a tour group with a guide visiting. My Spanish friend asked if we could tag along and the guide was fine about it. I am very glad to have seen this magnificent place, to me so much better than the grand cathedrals. The sense of history there is immense.

However, the highlight for the tour group was the two 'real pilgrims' they encountered, and the guide had to explain what we were up to!

Davey

 

[Davey Boyd]

I was surprised to see in one of the links posted above that the fountain in Oviedo, Foncalada (at the end of the Gascona, the wild party cider-drinking street for those of you who spend more time in bars than looking at ancient architecture), is of Visigothic origin. I had always thought it was Roman, maybe because I walked by one that looks very similar on the Castellano-Aragonés, and the placard said it was Roman.

My journal says this was outside the hamlet of Muro, on the way to the tiny village of Pozalmuro, 200 m off camino.



View attachment 79365

I have often sat and admired the fountain on 'cider street' in Oviedo! The more I sit there admiring, the more blurred it gets. I thought this phenomenon was a one off, but I have tested this out a few times now, just in case, and it works every time!

Davey

 

[VNwalking]

Thank you for your eagle-eye, @Pelegrin! Edited.

 

[peregrina2000]

Great list, VN. Just like your virtual caminos, these resources made in confinement will be so helpful once people are walking again.

A few minor details —

Santa Comba is 52 km from Ourense.

Santa Lucía del Trampal is easily visited on foot while walking from Aljucén to Alcuéscar on the Vdlp, if you take @alansykes’ great little detour

San Pedro de la Nave is about 22 km out of Zamora, if you want to add the distance, on a marked path.

I would group the two Naranco sites, San Miguel and Santa María together, since they are both up the same hill behind the Oviedo train station.

San Pedro de Nora is not far off the first stage of the Primitivo, and could be visited after Escamplero, but the path seems to have deteriorated.

It’s Santa María de Lara, not Lana (though it can be visited from the Lana, as @alansykes did, I believe). And I would put (Quintanilla de las Viñas) in parentheses since that is also how it is known.

Thanks again, buen camino, Laurie

 

[VNwalking]

Ah, wonderful. Another set of eagle eyes. Thanks, Laurie. (Funny, I had Sta Maria de Lana down correctly, but then changed it to Lara. Go figure. )

So I'll eventually fold in your additions and clean it up so it can be in the resource section. The more eagle eyes the better.

 

[Pelegrin]

To be perfect:
San Miguel de Escalada

 

[VNwalking]

Perfection is good, if you can acheive it.
Gracias! I get by with a little help from my friends....

 

[Pelegrin]

Perfection is good, if you can acheive it.
Gracias! I get by with a little help from my friends....

I visited San Miguel de Escalada because I have a friend from that area near Mansilla de las Mulas.
There are a lot of villages there with names like
Villasomething: Villafale, Villomar, Villa Sabariago , etc. near river Esla
According to him the term Villa refers to big properties and houses owned by important Romans who had to do with the Legio VI army located in what now is Leon.

 

[VNwalking]

According to him the term Villa refers to big properties and houses owned by important Romans who had to do with the Legio VI army located in what now is Leon.

Very cool.

 

[AlwynWellington]

To be perfect:
San Miguel de Escalada

This was the one "off piste" monastery, in the Mozarabic style and said to be consecrated in 951, on my list. I chickened out at Mansilla as I also wanted to be at Fisterra (for a private family related activity), back in Compostela for the principal Mass on All Saint's Day and get to London for family obligations the next day. All of which I did.

But seeing the comprehensive pre-schism list for Spain that VN, assisted by many others, has produced the only way I could do justice would be to get around by hire car.

The photos ... don't do justice to the ceiling.

This observation is true of just about all the cathedrals, abbeys, churches, chapels, ermita, whatever I enter. Often enough, not only is the ceiling the crowing glory, sometimes it is the only glory.

 

[cathietherese]

Asking that question is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. I have walked to most, and have visited a couple of the off-camino ones by car. IMHO, there is nothing like sitting inside one of these beautiful, irregularly shaped ancient works of love and devotion to get the reflective juices flowing — not that I think great thoughts, but it is such a peaceful place to think about the meaning of it all.

Primitivo — I have never thought of it this way, but in terms of ancient churches, I guess the Primitivo wins hands down. And if you walk into Oviedo from the Norte to start the Primitivo, you can add Valdediós to your itinerary, and it is truly one of the most beautiful. It is a well marked slight off-camino walk from Villaviciosa and on the way to Pola de Siero. So totally worth it.

For me personally, if I were pressed for time in Oviedo, the Naranco sites are far more beautiful (though much more heavily touristed) than San Julián de los Prados. It is the biggest, but its size makes it less human, and less peaceful, I think.

The last time I walked the Primitivo, I thought about trying to find my way to San Pedro de Nora, but in the end didn’t.

Vdlp — Santa Lucía de Trampal is gorgeous. @alansykes‘s detour GPS in between Aljucén and Alcuéscar is all you need. It’s in a beautiful rural setting, so you can enjoy the outside from many angles. The inside has been re-done and there is a visitors’ center with many informational panels, but the church retains the essential simplicity.

Salvador — Santa Cristina de Lena is about 200 m off the Camino after Campomanes, and I cannot imagine how anyone walking the Salvador could bear to miss it. And the environs are incredibly pastoral and peaceful.

Vadiniense (or Francés)— OMG, San Miguel de la Escalada. From Gradefes to Mansilla de las Mulas on the Vadiniense, you pass right by. But it is only about 15 km from Mansilla de las Mulas, and it would be worth moving heaven and earth to get there. In fact, this was how I met Rebekah. Way back years ago, I posted on the forum about wanting to visit San Miguel from León and wondering about transportation. Reb answered that she would pick me up and take me there! She even brought a copy of the beautiful Beatus that was produced there for me to look at. Totally totally worth it. I visited it again on the Vadiniense.

Santa Comba de Bande — I don’t think this is near any camino (at least not any that I know of), but I once spent a glorious weekend in Galicia in that area and took the short drive from Celanova (a very pretty Galician town) to visit the church. And ruins of a Roman fort along the way. Celanova has its own monuments to visit, too!




Thank you so much for the heads up. I think this is probably one of those places where you have to find the señora with the keys. But I would call ahead of time.
Teléfonos de Información: Guías, Nuria 620 923 644. Ayuntamiento de Tricio 941 36 10 57.

So, just to sum it all up with my opinions — of all of these, if you are looking for quiet, contemplative spots, where you will be overwhelmed by the humbling simplicity, I would recommend Valdediós and Santa Cristina de Lena as my “top two.”

Thank you for this wonderful information on what is an incredibly rich thread. I just wanted to say thinking somewhere is a peaceful place to think about the meaning of things is a really 'great' thought and state in and of itself.

 

[Albertagirl]

Those who are really interested in this topic could do worse than pick up Janice Mann's Romanesque Architecture and its Sculptural Decoration in Christian Spain 1000-1120

I ordered the book. I tried really hard to resist, but I just couldn't.
And I've bookmarked this thread.

 

[cathietherese]

Looking around online for some information about a virtual Camino de las Asturias, I stumbled across this beautiful article that describes some of the oldest churches in Spain, in detail and with photographs.

The Ancient Churches of Spain

I would like to call attention to some of the ancient churches of Western Europe which predate the Great Schism. These churches offer a glimpse of Western Orthodoxy as it once was, and as such, off…

orthodoxartsjournal.org

Then, as one does, I went down a deep rabbit hole, reading of the few churches that remain from the time before the Conquista. It is fascinating, and tantalizing. These churches are essentially Byzantine, late Roman - called Visigothic as a nod to the Visigoths, the people who had come to rule after the last remnants of the Roman Empire unraveled in Iberia.

Aren't you a Camino treasure sharing this research? Thank you. It's immensely enjoyable and informative reading this thread. xoCatherine,

 

[VNwalking]

Awww, thanks, @cathietherese !

 

[VNwalking]

ordered the book. I tried really hard to resist, but I just couldn't.
And I've bookmarked this thread.

I can see why it's hard to resist!
The Kindle sample offered includes this:

King’s most ambitious and significant work, The Way of Saint James, is also the most revealing in terms of her attitudes toward Spain, art history, and the Middle Ages. Begun in 1911, The Way examines the medieval monuments lining the road that pilgrims followed from Toulouse to Saint James’s shrine at Santiago de Compostela.20 The work is divided into four books printed in three volumes. ‘Book I: The Pilgrimage,’ establishes the context for the rest of the book through an account of medieval sources discussing the pilgrimage to Santiago, not the least among them the Codex Calixtinus.’Book II: The Way,’ which forms the bulk of the text, gives an account of King’s trip with a companion named Jehane along the road from Toulouse across the Somport pass and through northern Spain to Santiago. The results of King’s rigorous art historical investigations are woven together with the more personal account of her own trip. Jehane, although a fictional character, might in part be based on King’s real travel companion, photographer, and collaborator, E.H. (Edith) Lowber, who took some of the photographs used in The Way.2 Their journey provides more than just a framing device for the history and analysis of the architecture and sculpture encountered along the route. King’s observations of her own times serve to link the present with the past, revitalizing what the passage of time made dormant.22 Throughout The Way she weaves together the present with the past, the legendary with the historical, and her personal experiences with her more objective scholarly account to produce a book far out of fashion by today’s scholarly standards but not without its insights. The book, however, is most valuable for what it indicates about its own time rather than for what it says about the art and architecture of medieval Spain. Santiago de Compostela, including the medieval church, the modern town, history, folklore, and the monuments in the surrounding region, is described in ‘Book III: The Bourne.’ A brief tying up of loose ends is provided by ‘Book IV: Homeward,’ which also discusses the cathedral’s Pórtico de la Gloria and its artistic context, a handful of other sites in Galicia, and finally the passage back to France through the historic pass at Roncevaux.

How could you not want to read more...not to mention somehow finding King's century-old manum opus!?

 

[peregrina2000]

Those who are really interested in this topic could do worse than pick up Janice Mann's Romanesque Architecture and its Sculptural Decoration in Christian Spain 1000-1120 published by the University of Toronto Press,

I have a copy of that book, sitting on my bookshelf, thanks to the generosity of @oursonpolaire. ❤ Aside from the author’s specific exploration of the Spanish Romanesque churches as proclamations of the new frontiers of Christian Spain, she also has some interesting insight into the minds of the American art historians who brought Spanish Romanesque to the US, and how they saw things through their frontier mindset lens. One sentence I have highlighted in my copy — “He saw the pilgrimage roads leading to St. James’ shrine at Santiago de Compostela in northern Spain as a kind of melting pot, where intercultural exchange produced the new amalgamated Romanesque style in the same way that immigrants coming to the US mixed their old World habits with New World customs to reinvent themselves as Americans.”

There is also a very interesting chapter about the role of royal women in the construction of Romanesque churches, tasks they undertook while the guys were out fighting. San Isidoro in León is one we can be thankful to Doña Urraca for.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Tia Valeria]

Looking around online for some information about a virtual Camino de las Asturias, I stumbled across this beautiful article that describes some of the oldest churches in Spain, in detail and with photographs.

The Ancient Churches of Spain

I would like to call attention to some of the ancient churches of Western Europe which predate the Great Schism. These churches offer a glimpse of Western Orthodoxy as it once was, and as such, off…

orthodoxartsjournal.org

Then, as one does, I went down a deep rabbit hole, reading of the few churches that remain from the time before the Conquista. It is fascinating, and tantalizing. These churches are essentially Byzantine, late Roman - called Visigothic as a nod to the Visigoths, the people who had come to rule after the last remnants of the Roman Empire unraveled in Iberia.

Here are some of the more significant rabbit holes, for your enjoyment:
This shows the various churches in Asturias that are recognized by UNESCO, a surprising number.

Monuments of Oviedo and the Kingdom of the Asturias

In the 9th century the flame of Christianity was kept alive in the Iberian peninsula in the tiny Kingdom of the Asturias. Here an innovative pre-Romanesque architectural style was created that was to play a ...

whc.unesco.org

These other two sites are more general:

Asturian architecture - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Culture in Asturias. Asturian pre-Romanesque art.

Pre-Romanesque Art came about with the Asturian Monarchy beginning in the 9th century. Nowadays, some examples of this unique art are still preserved.

www.turismoasturias.es

The churches the Visigoth kings built predate the Camino itself and are our windows into a deep past, very precious links to ages that we can only glimse from afar. Only a handful of Visigothic churches are left in Spain — most were lost in the Conquista or to later renovations. Much of what remains are in the far North., and many have UNESCO recognition. They are beautiful in a totally different way than we are used to seeing with Romanesque and Gothic architecture.

In Asturias, and around Oviedo in particular, you could easily spend a day or two visiting the several Visigthic churches. So heads-up if you are walking the Primativo or San Salvador. At the very least do not miss to visit San Julian in Oviedo; the Wikipedia article says this:

View attachment 79314
From http://www.spainisculture.com/en/monumentos/asturias/iglesia_de_san_julian_de_los_prados.html

San Tirso is also central, right beside the Cathedral of Oviedo.

About a km North of Oviedo is Santa Maria del Naranco (Left, below), built as a palace in 848, and repurposed later to be used as a church. Santa Cristina de Lena (Right below), about 25 km south of Oviedo and a very short way off the Camino San Salvador, was built adjacent to the Roman road joining the Messta with Asturias. If you walk right by you are missing a jewel!
View attachment 79313 View attachment 79312
L: From https://www.turismoasturias.es/docu...b-305c-4bfc-b6ac-a1687fb2af4a?t=1389204123847
R: From https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._de_Lena.jpg/330px-Santa_Cristina_de_Lena.jpg

The UNESCO report highlights the importance of the remarkable preservation of two of these buildings:


Asturias has most but not all of these churches.
A few days walk from Burgos, on the Camino San Olav, is Santa Maria de Lara. It is a tantalizing fragment of the original structure, with beautiful very natural carvings visible on the outside. The inside is also said to be special but it was closed when I went there a good Friday.
View media item 4874
Santa Lucía del Trampal is much farther to the south on the VdlP, a short detour between Aljucen and Alcuéscar.


If there is one lesson from this rabbit hole, it is the benefit of reading a bit before heading off on any camino. It would be all too easy to waltz right past these remarkable ghosts of the past, oblivious to their importance.
Buen camino when we can, amigx!

A great thread, I give you all a likes. Not easy to do individually on a kindle!
When I have time I will add photos from our visits to some of these churches.
We also have a book on the pre Romanesque churches in Asturias.

 

[VNwalking]

When I have time I will add photos from our visits to some of these churches.

Please! ☺

There is also a very interesting chapter about the role of royal women in the construction of Romanesque churches, tasks they undertook while the guys were out fighting.

No comment.

 

[Flig]

This is glorious information! Thank you for posting VNwalking.

 

[VNwalking]

This just jumped out at me from another older thread, underlining the impression that @alansykes offered above. A pity it's not near any caminos.

San Juan de Baños, a great Visigothic church located on the town of Baños de Cerrato (next to Venta de Baños) out of any Camino de Santiago route (other than self-made/designed caminos); a church that is considered (by some people) to be the oldest church in Spain that isn't in ruins. Venta de Baños and Baños de Cerrato are something like 12 kms South of the city of Palencia.

 

[Tia Valeria]

As promised a few photos, plus another book title In Gobiendes museum we found a book
'The preromanesque in Asturias' by Lorenzo Arias. A wonderful guide to the ancient churches of the era.

Two of the oldest churches of the Asturian monarchy are:-

The church of Santa Cruz, Cangas de Onis, on the Camino de la Reina which is on the Camino to Covadonga and can be used as a link to the Primitivo.

Santianes de Pravia is actually just off the Norte and we were fortunate to find it open.

Next come:-
San Julian de Los Prados - amazing wall paintings.

Sta María de Naranco (San Miguel was closed for restoration when we were there)

Santa Cristina de Lena

San Salvador de Valdediós

Santiago de Gobiendes (again just off the Norte)

There are other ancient churches we have visited too, but they are for another post (Edit- see post #76].
We have also been in Oviedo but no photos....

 

[Albertagirl]

I have reread this thread and am sure that I shall do so again. It seems to be trying to give me a new view of my pilgrimages, where early Christian worship in Spain has a significant role. At present, this seems problematical for me, since none of the churches on the Levante, which I have been planning to visit next, is mentioned on this thread. Any suggestions? For some reason, I still feel the need to compete my pilgrimages in Santiago and to walk all the way.

 

[VNwalking]

I'm hoping @peregrina2000 and @Alan sykes will chime in with their thoughts. You're right. It appears that he North is where much of the early action is.
How long do you intend to walk, @Albertagirl?

You could do worse than a camino mixta - Viejo-Olvidado from Pamplona to La Robla, then San Salvador-Primativo to Santiago. That would offer a grand sweep of history: prehistoric-Roman-Visigothic-Romanesque. And if you're short on time you could start in either Vitoria-Gasteiz/Miranda de Ebro or Aguilar de Campoo instead.

 

[Albertagirl]

I'm hoping @peregrina2000 and @Alan sykes will chime in with their thoughts. You're right. It appears that he North is where much of the early action is.
How long do you intend to walk, @Albertagirl?

You could do worse than a camino mixta - Viejo-Olvidado from Pamplona to La Robla, then San Salvador-Primativo to Santiago. That would offer a grand sweep of history: prehistoric-Roman-Visigothic-Romanesque. And if you're short on time you could start in either Vitoria-Gasteiz/Miranda de Ebro or Aguilar de Campoo instead.

I have been planning on walking a long way: from Valencia to Zamora to Santiago, via the Levante to the VdlP to the Sanabres. Everything is so uncertain at this time, with the pandemic and my own need for knee replacement, that my plans are so far just fantasy. I think that I have been drawn to the Levante for several reasons: I want a long walk, most of it is on flat ground, so maybe doable for me before the surgery or fairly soon after; I should like to walk the Sanabres again; from Zamora, I could take a bus to Orense, if my knee threatened to give out, and finish the walk from there. Basically, the combination of the pandemic, looming knee surgery and my age makes any plans uncertain. I don't want to slow down, but I may have to. In ten days, I shall begin a short walk in the mountains (only four days), challenging enough with all my needs on my back. Afterwards, I may know better what I can hope to be able to do, if I don't have to put off my plans for too long. One attraction of your suggested route for me is that I have not, so far, walked any of it. If I could do it in short stages, it might do me well as my next route, putting off the Levante for another time. I have not gotten very far with my planning of that route, since I am mired in uncertainty. And I have previously done some planning for the Olvidado. How long in kms is your suggested route?

 

[VNwalking]

From Pamplona to La Robla, one place you could connect with the San Salvador, is about 514kms. From there it's 101.5 to Oviedo, 615.5 total.

Alternatively it's ~524 to Buiza (on an alternative mountain route), and from there 86.5 to Oviedo, 610kms total.

Followed by the Primativo.

That would satisfy the Visigothic itch...but...your knees? The first part, to La Robla, has ups and downs but a lot of the way follows valleys until past Aguilar de Campoo. Once in mountans, though...the San Salvador/Primativo are much more seriously inclined.

 

[VNwalking]

@Albertagirl , I just posted this link to a PDF on another thread, but it might be useful for you - Visigothic sites, organized by region. So you might find there is more there than we've uncoverd:

https://guia-arqueologica.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Gu%C3%ADa_Arqueol%C3%B3gica_Visigodos_Luis_del_Rey_ISBN_9788494197345.pdf

 

[AJGuillaume]

@Albertagirl , I just posted this link to a PDF on another thread, but it might be useful for you - Visigothic sites, organized by region. So you might find there is more there than we've uncoverd:

https://guia-arqueologica.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Gu%C3%ADa_Arqueol%C3%B3gica_Visigodos_Luis_del_Rey_ISBN_9788494197345.pdf

Thank you @VNwalking , that's a great resource!
And thank you for starting this thread!

 

[Albertagirl]

Why not just cross the Plata at Zamora and proceed on Camino Zamorano (i.e. VdlP Portugues) if you already know the Sanabres. There's San Pedro de la Nave (early medieval) church in El Campillo some 20km from Zamora:
Not to mention all 20 something romanesque churches in Zamora itself

Actually, I was considering that.... I look forward to spending some time in Zamora visiting Romanesque churches. My recently ordered book on Romanesque architecture should educate me to the point where I will know what I am looking at. The challenge would then be finding churches that are open. Thank you for your suggestion.

 

[AlanSykes]

There is a tendency to think of the horseshoe arches in, say, the mezquita in Córdoba as entirely muslim, but the visigoths were using them for over a century before the conquista, as seen in particular at San Juan de Baños. One source I read suggested that they may possibly have picked them up in Byzantium on their westerly progression to Spain.

Either way they are:

Caught in that sensual music all neglect
Monuments of unageing intellect.

 

[AlwynWellington]

@alansykes, thanks for that connection about rounded arches.

It may seem a wrong connection for some, but on seeing the image above from Cordoba I am reminded in a general way of the cistern at Istanbul. Although the light in the latter is artificial.

Or was the connection between the re-purposing of a mosque at Cordoba about 800 years ago and the re-purposing of a cathedral at Istanbul about 600 years ago?

Whatever, kia kaha

 

[AlanSykes]

Not, of course, forgetting that the mezquita was built on the site of the visigothic basilica of San Vicente, itself almost certainly built on the site of a Roman temple, some of whose columns were re-cycled to make the columns of the mezquita we see today - so perhaps the visigothic horseshoes also inspired the muslim architects.

The unspeakably dreary Gothic cathedral was slapped down in the middle of one of the wonders of the world at the expense of perhaps a quarter of the muslim mezquita. Carlos V, arguably so much more civilised, tolerant and cultivated than either his maternal grandparents or his son (actually, make that "inarguably"), lamented the building of the new cathedral, saying "habéis destruido lo que era único en el mundo, y habéis puesto en su lugar lo que se puede ver en todas partes." [you've destroyed what was unique in the world and put in its place something that you can see anywhere]

 

[Albertagirl]

I am not attracted to travel in Portugal. Better just to say that my reasons are my own. I shall certainly take the time in Zamora to visit some of its treasures of Romanesque architecture. Your idea of doing this as part of my Camino de Levante fits very well with my journey, as I am planning it.Thank you for your help.

 

[Tia Valeria]

A little off track but here are the other 2 churches which we have visited. San Martiño de Mondoñedo is on one branch of the Ruta do Mar and also can be accessed as a diversion on the Norte. The route comes on the Ruta de Rosende from Foz, beyond Ribadeo, down to Mondoñedo itself via Lourenza (Norte). San Martiño being the older basilica.
San Martiño de Mondoñedo

The other, San Salvador de Vilar de Donas, is 6ms NE of Palas de Rei (Francés) and needs a diversion which the locals hoped to sign (2016) or a rest day walk from Palas de Rei.
San Salvador de Vilar de Donas

 

[Pelegrin]

A little off track but here are the other 2 churches which we have visited. San Martiño de Mondoñedo is on one branch of the Ruta do Mar and also can be accessed as a diversion on the Norte. The route comes on the Ruta de Rosende from Foz, beyond Ribadeo, down to Mondoñedo itself via Lourenza (Norte). San Martiño being the older basilica.
View attachment 79997 View attachment 79996 View attachment 79995 View attachment 79994 View attachment 79993 San Martiño de Mondoñedo

The other, San Salvador de Vilar de Donas, is 6ms NE of Palas de Rei (Francés) and needs a diversion which the locals hoped to sign (2016) or a rest day walk from Palas de Rei.
View attachment 80003 View attachment 79999 View attachment 79994 View attachment 79993 View attachment 79995 San Salvador de Vilar de Donas

San Matiño de Mondoñedo is a basilica . It has history. In the Middle Ages grouped two Episcopal Sees: Dumio (now in Portugal) after the Muslim invasion and the Britonic church of Bretoña after being destroyed by the Vikings in 9th century.

 

[VNwalking]

San Martiño de Mondoñedo

11th C., with buttresses from the 18th C.

San Salvador de Vilar de Donas,

13th C.
Both are venerable, but not old enough to qualify as visigothic. Thanks, Tia - I realize that the thread title is not as clear as it could be, so I'll change it.

 

[Albertagirl]

I ordered the book. I tried really hard to resist, but I just couldn't.
And I've bookmarked this thread.

The book just came, at a moment when I was digging into the chapter on Madrid in Michener's Iberia. My attention is split between Asturias, Aragon, and other ancient locations in Spain, as I find an infinite variety of fascinating pilgrim routes, blessed with early Christian places of worship. I found on Wikipedia an article on early Christian churches, and was somewhat surprised to see that I had, years ago, visited one older that those listed in Spain: St Martin's Church in Canterbury. I am not sure where all this is leading me, but certainly on an endless number of further camino routes, when it becomes possible for me to return to Spain. And a satisfying hobby for this time hiding out from the pandemic.

 

[VNwalking]

If it wasn't this one, here is a list for quick reference:

List of oldest church buildings - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Enjoy your reading, @Albertagirl , and please report back if you find any juicy nuggets of information to share.

 

[Albertagirl]

I first went on pilgrimage nearly 50 years ago, by plane to Israel for a two week organized pilgrimage, then to England for another two weeks or so of visiting early religious sites, and other Christian sites significant to me as an Anglican. At the time, I knew of an elderly man who had been a lay missionary along the route of the CN railroad, before the First World War. He had donated money to start a chapel fund for the Anglican Church at the University of Alberta in Edmonton, where I was studying when I decided to go on pilgrimage. I contacted him; at the time he was living in the Cathedral Close at Canterbury. He showed me around the Cathedral and told me of St Martin's Church, older than the Cathedral, where he was to be buried in his family plot. At that time, I went to see the church. Someday, I should like to visit that family plot, and perhaps the plot where my grandfather was buried in a Commonwealth War Graves cemetery; he died on active service during the Second World War: a different kind of pilgrimage.

 

[Ant]

Me too, Chris!
Does anyone who's visited these churches have any first-hand experiences?

I do. I was married in Santa Maria del Naranco in 1977. I return to Oviedo occasionally and go and sit and contemplate the church as my wife passed many years ago.

 

[ebrandt]

Wow -- You all have just gone to town in the last couple of days. What an incredibly rich and interesting discussion.

I thought I would digress from the actual architecture to ask about Visigothic law and how it related to their art and architecture. For many years I taught the law of community property. This is the law of marital property ownership in Spain and in about 9 US States. A number of other European countries have very similar systems -- notably France. The law of community property turns on the idea that a husband and wife own equal, undivided shares in all property acquired during marriage. This equality starkly contrasted with the traditional English law of marital property which was rooted in the concept of coverture -- that the wife's legal persona was merged into that of her husband such that she lost her separate legal identity. Anyway -- the Spanish law of community property that was largely copied by western US states during the late 19th C originated with the Visigoths. In fact the Fuero Juzgo, a codex of Castillian laws based on the Visigothic codes, is still an authoritative historical source in the area of American community property law!

Its might be easy to conclude, given the recognition of women as legal persons separate and apart from their husbands, that the Visigoths were early feminists. But unfortunately I don't think this is accurate. Even while recognizing women, the Visigothic family codes placed married women's property under the exclusive management of their husbands. Still, the Visigothic approach to women's legal identity seems more enlightened than does English coverture which simply erased married women from legal existence. Thye Visigothic approach to women also does not seem completely consistent with emerging medieval catholic understandings of the role of women (at least as far as I understand it). Wasn't the prevailing direction of catholic thinking on gender roles during this time moving toward the exclusion of women from most authoritative positions within the church and toward the isolation of women in gender specific monastic communities?

This all makes me wonder if the unique Visigothic understanding of women is reflected in their architecture or art? Does anyone know?

Liz

 

[Kanga]

Wow - Liz - interesting. I immediately start thinking of the Cathars. My understanding (and I've done no research) is that they really did believe in equality - the soul was what mattered, the body was irrelevant and the only difference between men and woman was the outer casing.

 

[VNwalking]

Wow. Eye-opening, Liz.
And a very good question. I have no idea, but @mspath might.

This all makes me wonder if the unique Visigothic understanding of women is reflected in their architecture or art?

@Kathar1na had posted something quite interesting the visigothic thread yesterday about gendered language, and how it appears from the art that the visigothic genders for sun and moon were opposite to the Latin (as is modern German). So of course it's hard not to wonder about the question you have posed, Liz.

 

[ebrandt]

Wow - Liz - interesting. I immediately start thinking of the Cathars. My understanding (and I've done no research) is that they really did believe in equality - the soul was what mattered, the body was irrelevant and the only difference between men and woman was the outer casing.

Hmm -- I hadn't even heard of Cathars and just read about them on google. What an interesting group -- Wikipedia says 12-14th C. Too bad they didn't have more influence?

I didn't find much in the way of in depth resources online regarding who the Visigoths were. I have posted a couple general links below if folks are interested. Apparently one of the most lasting legacies of the Visigoths was their Code of Law which not only elevated the rights of women but also mandated equality for all citizens. Its interesting, though. Aside from short. I am headed to the library for resources and will try to report back!

Who were the Visigoths: https://www.ancient.eu/visigoth/
What are the key provisions of the Visigothic Code: http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Acade...y_different_12/Papers_12/Freyer Visigoths.htm

 

[Kanga]

(Apologies for a bit of a digression from the topic - but kind of relevant, if the time crosses over!) Liz, I think 12-14th for the Cathars is a bit limited - they came to prominence in the C12th with the crusade against them led by Simon de Montford but the Cathars themselves believed they were directly following the early Christian Church and it was the rest of Christianity (ie Catholicism) that had gone wrong. Certainly there were a distinctly recognised group by the C12th, with well established towns, and a threat to the established Catholic Church. That must have built up over a period of time. I'm now looking for for buildings and churches before then. Walking the route from Arles and the Canal du Midi we came across many reminders of the Cathars. A bit of information here. On beliefs and how their society operated I found this interesting (with a lawyerly warning that I've not looked at the provenance of the information on the site).

There is a waking route is described as the Sentier Cathar - (a few great stories on that page) . If you google it you get lots more.

There is some evidence (and it makes sense, when considering geographic proximity) that the last of them fled to Spain in the C14th, see this.

 

[VNwalking]

Also off-topic, but just to include this link about the Cathars. It's one of the best general history books I've ever read, even though it's in translation. I'd love to get my hands on the original French though, because I'm told it includes things that were not included in the English. I can't actually remember if there was much information about their historical and cultural roots and links to different groups.

Montaillou

In the early 1300's the village of Montaillou & the surrounding mountainous region of Southern France was full of heretics. When Jacquest...

www.goodreads.com

 

[Kanga]

Great resource Vera! The first recognised Cathars seem to be in the Limousin in the C11th and in 1022 several Cathars were put to death in Toulouse. The examples I'm finding of Cathar buildings look Romanesque and very early gothic. It really is fascinating.

 

[VNwalking]

It really is fascinating.

And incredibly sad.

 

[TerryB]

As promised a few photos, plus another book title In Gobiendes museum we found a book
'The preromanesque in Asturias' by Lorenzo Arias. A wonderful guide to the ancient churches of the era.

I have been re-reading this thread. A few more details about the book. We bought it in Gobiendes and thought it was rather expensive at 30 euros (granted we were on limited expenses at the time!) It is now advertised on Amazon, second hand at £134!!!

www.amazon.co.uk/Preromanesque-Asturias-art-Asturian-monarchy/dp/8495178516/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=%27The+preromanesque+in+Asturias%27&qid=1607944870&s=books&sr=1-1

It is a beautiful book with full details of the architecture and colour photos in detail of all the preromanesque Asturian churches. Of special interest (to me) is a detailed geometrical diagram of Santa Maria de Naranco with the quote "Proportion is the harmonisation of the parts and members of a building with the whole building itself, this being the sine qua non of symmetry."
The Asturian churches are beautiful examples of what can be done with the basic building material of stone.

blessings
Terry B

 

[jungleboy]

Side trip from Sanabres—
Santa Comba de Bande (~49km SW of Ourense)

13km from Lobios on the Geira as I discovered today!

 

[VNwalking]

Thank you Nick!
Definately worth a detour for us visigothopiles, and 13km is a whole lot more doable than 49m.
And one more tick in the Giera's colunm

 

[Albertagirl]

And, if I ever do the Levante again, this time I will take the detour to have a look at another visigothic survival, Santa María de Melque, about 30km west of Toledo.

@VNwalking
I think that your list, above, missed @alansykes 's reference to Santa Maria de Melque, a possible detour from the Levante, which I am soon to walk.

 

[VNwalking]

Thanks, @Albertagirl! How did we miss this on our virtual camino?
It really looks worth a side-journey, with a cross-shaped floor plan a little like that of Santa Comba de Bande :

SANTA MARIA DE MELQUE - Turismo Prerrománico

Included in what was a broad monastic ensemble its plan is a Greek cross inlaid in a square of around 20m by side.

www.turismo-prerromanico.com

I've added it to the list and copied the list to this post, to save people trying to find 'just the facts, ma'am' amid the rambling conversation in the thread:

I have just found these wonderful websites, giving lots of information about Pre-romanesque in Asturias and Cantabria:

Arte Prerrománico. Asturias (ARTEGUIAS)

Centro Prerrománico Asturiano

Centro Prerrománico Asturiano

www.prerromanicoasturiano.es

The latter is the portal for information about many of the sites, and for an interpretive museum, the
Centro de Recepción e Interpretación Prerromanico Asturiano in Pavia not far from the Norte. It looks wonderful!

To quell confusion and to put everything on one page, here is a summary list from this thread, our crowdsourced camino connections (there are some duplications when a place is accessible from 2 caminos; @peregrina2000 , @alansykes , @Rebekah Scott , @Pelegrin , @oursonpolaire, and anyone who knows better, please feel free to correct me if I have missed or misrepresented something, or to add to the list! Thanks.):
Side trip from Levante --
Santa Maria de Melque (30 km W of Toledo)

Camino de Madrid —
Wamba

Side trip from Norte —
San Juan Apostol y Evangelista (Santianes de Pavia)(6.9 km from Muros de Nalon)

Norte to Primitivo —
Valdediós

Primitivo (Oviedo and environs; distances from city centre) —
Camara Santa of Oviedo Cathedral
Santa Maria del Naranco (3.2km NW)
Santa Maria de Bendones (6.4km SE; may be near Camino de las Asturias)
San Julián de los Prados (1.3km NE)
San Pedro de Nora (11km W)
San Tirso (19km SE)
San Miguel de Lillo (3.4km NW)
San Adriano de Tuñon (Near Rio Trubia, ~20km SW)

San Olav —
Santa Maria de Lara (Quintanillas de las Viñas)

San Salvador —
Santa Cristina de Lena

Side trip from Frances —
Santa Maria de los Arcos in Tricio (2.6km SE of Najera, closer to the camino)
San Miguel de Escalada (14.3km NE of Mansilla de las Mulas)
Iglesia de Santiago in Peñalba de Santiago (from Ponferrada or El Acebo)

Side trip from Sanabres or Geira—
Santa Comba de Bande (~49km SW of Ourense, 13.7 km NE Lobios on the Geira)

Side trip from Vdlp —
Santa Lucía de Trampal
San Pedro de la Nave (22 km from Zamora)

Vadiniense—
San Miguel de Escalada

Zamorano Portugués —
San Pedro de la Nave (22 km from Zamora)

 

[dick bird]

The first three are of Santa Cristina de Lena on the Salvador, and I think there is something very wrong with anyone who doesn't take the time to try and visit this lovely little church (prejudiced as I am). It is opened up every day around 10 by a very conscientious caretaker. The other is San Salvador de Valdedíos, near Villaviciosa on the Primitivo. There is an albergue attached here (and it is still very well looked after, but not by nuns). What you don't see in the picture is that the church is in the grounds of a huge but crumbling, Baroque monastery. There are daily guided tours and the guide opens up the albergue for you, then goes away after the last tour of the day leaving you with the ghosts of the monks, nuns and inmates of the psychiatric hospital it became for a while. Luckily for our sanity, a French engineer pilgrim turned up just as it was getting dark to keep us company, and share a very convivial meal.

 

[Albertagirl]

Thanks, @Albertagirl! How did we miss this on our virtual camino?
It really looks worth a side-journey, with a cross-shaped floor plan a little like that of Santa Comba de Bande :

SANTA MARIA DE MELQUE - Turismo Prerrománico

Included in what was a broad monastic ensemble its plan is a Greek cross inlaid in a square of around 20m by side.

www.turismo-prerromanico.com

I've added it to the list and copied the list to this post, to save people trying to find 'just the facts, ma'am' amid the rambling conversation in the thread:

@VNwalking
I have tried to trace a route to Santa Maria de Melque from the Camino de Levante in the vicinity of Toledo. From the Ayntamiento at Burguillos, it is 31 km to Galvez, where there is accommodation. From Galvez to Santa Maria de Melque is 12 km, on trails or secondary roads. My guess is about an hour to drive from Toledo, in taxi or rented car, there may be buses from the Toledo bus terminal to take a walker to San Martin de Montalban, the closest village, or to Galvez. That would be at least a day's excursion. Santa Maria de Melque is south-west from Toledo at a point where the camino turns to go north-west. Two nights in Galvez would make a three day's excursion on foot, or else a very expensive taxi ride. Probably not for me. Alas.

 

[amancio]

Just found this topic by chance, amazing job!!! I think I have visited most of them, there is another place, though, that I have not seem mentioned: Santolalla, or Santa Eulalia de Bóveda, just a few km off the Primitivo, between Lugo and Melide.

EL SANTUARIO ROMANO DE SANTA EULALIA DE BÓVEDA - VIATOR IMPERI

El santuario romano de Santa Eulalia de Bóveda, en Lugo, cuenta con el conjunto de pinturas murales más importante de la Hispania romana.

viatorimperi.es

That one should be in everybody's list, certainly, the frescoes, the primitive carvings, the space itself. Have not seen anything that I could compare it to!

 

[apoivre]

Good spot, @amancio. I've been meaning to visit this little gem for years now.

If I may add one place that is sorely lacking on the list, it's the upper part of the San Millán de la Cogolla monastery near Nájera (San Millán de Suso) that dates back to the 6th century. It's a UNESCO World Heritage Site, too

San Millán Yuso and Suso Monasteries

The monastic community founded by St Millán in the mid-6th century became a place of pilgrimage. A fine Romanesque church built in honour of the holy man still stands at the site of Suso. It was here that the first ...

whc.unesco.org

 

[VNwalking]

Bumping this thread, because @Madrood has posed a question best answered by the likes of you who have seen lots of these churches in real life, rather than in photos: do you have any favorites?

(@peregrina2000, @Rebekah Scott, @jungleboy, and @alansykes , @Pelegrin ...)