A little rant about entitlement

[Antnix1]

I was walking through a small town with an ageing population of over 3000 ppl that marks the end of a (gronze) stage on the mozarabe and, in advance, checked the availability of grocery stores. One small shop opens daily from 10am to 1.30pm.
Obviously, that schedule isn't good for me so I'd better bring my own food. Or arrive early or set off late. (I brought food)

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

I think it's every pilgrim's obligation to be grateful and hopefully leave a good impression with our hosts.

 

[Bradypus]

Sadly imagining that the world should revolve around oneself isn't that uncommon a phenomenon. But that does sound like a particularly bad example. Given the depopulation of many villages and competition from larger towns nearby it is a struggle for shops like that to survive at all.

 

[Walkalong]

On arriving at the last available Albergue, minutes before the sole Hospitalero went off duty, a small group asked to inspect the beds before checking in. They were surprised at the "No" response. They repeated the request to see the beds, and received another clear and firm "No".

Overhearing this, and knowing that the other Albergues were full, I piped up to assure them that the beds were very good. In fact, due to Covid, the privacy and spacing of beds was much better than my first stay there in 2018.

To ease the situation, I asked where they had walked from that day and then asked if they were Peregrinos, to which the lead person, in an only slightly less indignant tone said "Well, we have these passports", referring to their Credentials.

The Hospitalero, perhaps pretending to be reluctant, checked them in.

The beds may have been good, but I neglected to tell them that the showers never, ever produced hot water. All part of the wonderful experience that is the Camino.

Anyone care to guess which Albergue. It was on the Frances?

 

[Bradypus]

The beds may have been good, but I neglected to tell them that the showers never, ever produced hot water.

On my first Camino hot water was such a rarity that I noted down in my diary the days when I found hot showers in a refugio. Remarkable how expectations have been raised over the years!

 

[Icacos]

Anyone care to guess which Albergue. It was on the Frances?

One albergue came immediately to mind. Then I remembered that the beds were terrible at that albergue, but there was hot water in the showers that evening … no hot water anywhere in the morning. Not much was working in the morning. It was quite the adventure and a memorable experience.

 

[Tincatinker]

I was walking through a small town with an ageing population of over 3000 ppl that marks the end of a (gronze) stage on the mozarabe and, in advance, checked the availability of grocery stores. One small shop opens daily from 10am to 1.30pm.
Obviously, that schedule isn't good for me so I'd better bring my own food. Or arrive early or set off late. (I brought food)

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

I think it's every pilgrim's obligation to be grateful and hopefully leave a good impression with our hosts.

Nice one son.

 

[gerardcarey]

I get grumpy about things now and them.
Don't take any notice.
Or give me a tongue lashing...gentle or stern.
Probly need one.

But I don't have a feeling of entitlement.
I'm just grumpy.

Regards?
Gerard

 

[trecile]

I've been noticing on Camino FB groups people who want to have their luggage transported, but have booked into Airbnbs or similar accommodations where the transport companies don't do drop-offs and pick-ups. And of course they are complaining about it.
It seems to me that if you want to avail yourself of this service you should stay in places that the transport companies service. There's pretty high expectations of a service that only costs about 6 - 7 Euros a day!

 

[VNwalking]

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

It is a mystery to me too.
Mememememe. Only me.
Such a miserable state of mind to inhabit.

@Antnix1, I hope you left a counteracting review. But geeze. Sometimes you just want to review the reviewer.

 

[Robo]

I've been noticing on Camino FB groups people who want to have their luggage transported, but have booked into Airbnbs or similar accommodations where the transport companies don't do drop-offs and pick-ups. And of course they are complaining about it.
It seems to me that if you want to avail yourself of this service you should stay in places that the transport companies service. There's pretty high expectations of a service that only costs about 6 - 7 Euros a day!

Why not just book a Camino Tour?

 

[Robo]

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

Do at least tell us the stage to look at...... so we can comment

 

[Former member 104756]

I've been noticing on Camino FB groups people who want to have their luggage transported, but have booked into Airbnbs or similar accommodations where the transport companies don't do drop-offs and pick-ups. And of course they are complaining about it.

Sigh! As @Robo says, eye roll

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And as for this …I just can’t fathom how you can embark on a camino like the Mozarabe and have this attitude and these expectations. A wonderful path and wonderful local people. No expectations of commerce at your convenience, just a lovely surprise and gratitude to come across an open shop or cafe when least expected.

 

[DoughnutANZ]

What language was the review in?

 

[Antnix1]

Spanish. Google translates automatically.

I read through his other reviews and generally they're positive, with the exception of tourism offices with poor hours that meant he couldn't get his credential stamped.

I guess he was caught short.

The particular town I'm talking about is small and the shops only open a few hours and restaurant doesn't open every evening- the evening I arrived it opened til 6 according to google but in reality had already closed for the day if it opened at all.

The hostal was functional but didn't as much as have salt or teabags, but the owner saw the predicament and provided a bag of dry pasta between 3 of us.

I had a can of sardines in spicy sauce and a jar of peppers, plus a small pouch of olives, nescafe, (and a pastry and banana for breakfast) so we were able to scramble together a meal for 2. i guess the 3rd person had their own provisions.

 

[Arctic_Alex]

Mankind ... that is how many of us are.
But I do not get it either as I do not know anyone close to me who would think / behave like that. It must be different groups of people, far away from my personal bubble.

 

[wisepilgrim]

A few days ago on one of the Facebook camino groups the topic of one-way ticket travel came up. The post was inquiring if it was risky, and one of the replies encouraged everyone simply to explain to the immigration agent that you are a pilgrim and that you don't know how long it will take.... 'they will understand.' All I could thing about was the puzzled look on the airline agents face, in Atlanta GA, who was no doubt imagining the Mayflower. Entitlement indeed.

But you see it elsewhere too, when pilgrims on the trail complain that there is a car driving down the road (he lives on that road and you are walking on his driveway) or that cyclists should ride elsewhere; presumably because this trail is for pilgrims and pilgrims only. From April to October I drive a great deal more carefully in the mornings, when pilgrim nearby wander off trail to follow the road (it's 100m shorter) while keeping their head down to monitor their progress on the phones... completely aloof to the very real threat around them.

I think that the concept of 'it's my camino and I can do it however I want' has been taken to its extreme.

I often say, only half joking, that the only real difference between pilgrimage today and pilgrimage 1000 years ago is bridges and wifi, and that for everything else there is a parallel. But I do wonder what the earliest pilgrims thought of themselves in relationship to the big world of non-pilgrims around them.

 

[good_old_shoes]

Well that happens when people want the infrastructure of the Francés but without any other people walking...

In German we call that someone who wants the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau". Which translates to "Egg laying wooly dairy sow". A miraculous farm animal that produces eggs, wool, milk, and meat at the same time.

Some people apparently don't understand that it doesn't exist.

Either you have a lonely path or one with perfect infrastructure!

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

I think that the concept of 'it's my camino and I can do it however I want' has been taken to its extreme.

100% agree

A few days ago on one of the Facebook camino groups the topic of one-way ticket travel came up. The post was inquiring if it was risky, and one of the replies encouraged everyone simply to explain to the immigration agent that you are a pilgrim and that you don't know how long it will take.... 'they will understand.' All I could thing about was the puzzled look on the airline agents face, in Atlanta GA, who was no doubt imagining the Mayflower.

I don't even want to ask which FB group that was, but could take a guess. I will say that particular flavor of myopic entitlement of people who probably need to get out into the world more, is one of the reasons why I've since removed myself from, er, less moderated camino FB-based groups and stuck with this forum.

 

[markie6]

Mankind ... that is how many of us are.
But I do not get it either as I do not know anyone close to me who would think / behave like that. It must be different groups of people, far away from my personal bubble.

Most of us who have walked a few times have seen behaviour far outside the norm and are no longer surprised by it.

I don't think it's down to people thinking it's their camino and they can do what they want... no doubt it is their camino ... the "do what they want" is the attitude they brought with them from home

Bandits would have picked a few of these types off 1000 years ago...

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Spanish. Google translates automatically.

I read through his other reviews and generally they're positive, with the exception of tourism offices with poor hours that meant he couldn't get his credential stamped.

I guess he was caught short.

The particular town I'm talking about is small and the shops only open a few hours and restaurant doesn't open every evening- the evening I arrived it opened til 6 according to google but in reality had already closed for the day if it opened at all.

The hostal was functional but didn't as much as have salt or teabags, but the owner saw the predicament and provided a bag of dry pasta between 3 of us.

I had a can of sardines in spicy sauce and a jar of peppers, plus a small pouch of olives, nescafe, (and a pastry and banana for breakfast) so we were able to scramble together a meal for 2. i guess the 3rd person had their own provisions.

Thanks for your detailed reply.

I asked about the language because I have noticed anecdotally that some Spanish language reviews of facilities in Spain have been more critical than I thought was necessary. However, I am a little bit more tolerant of a (probable) local being critical of their own country than I would be of a non-Spanish person being critical of facilities in Spain.

What do you think?

 

[TravellingMan22]

100% agree



I don't even want to ask which FB group that was, but could take a guess. I will say that particular flavor of myopic entitlement of people who probably need to get out into the world more, is one of the reasons why I've since removed myself from, er, less moderated camino FB-based groups and stuck with this forum.

I do remember somewhere on here having a meltdown as someone had parked their bike in a place that spoilt that ability to take an unobstructed photo of a particular momument!

 

[Antnix1]

On arriving at the last available Albergue, minutes before the sole Hospitalero went off duty, a small group asked to inspect the beds before checking in. They were surprised at the "No" response. They repeated the request to see the beds, and received another clear and firm "No".

Ah, the bed inspectors.

I didn't know it was a thing until I did the CF and an American pilgrim asked the hospitalero to see the bed before he paid. His request was refused so he went somewhat else. Which is fine, I guess.
Bedbugs weren't really a concern at the time but he probably had a reason - like didn't want the room to be too cramped, or to be beside the bathroom etc

 

[Arctic_Alex]

Most of us who have walked a few times have seen behaviour far outside the norm and are no longer surprised by it.

Oh, I have seen if quite often, and not only with pilgrims. But not in my wider peer groups. It always seems to be "the distant others". If I ever saw such behaviour with a friend or colleague I would force him or her into a deep conversation afterwards ;-)

 

[Arctic_Alex]

Well that happens when people want the infrastructure of the Francés but without any other people walking...

In German we call that someone who wants the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau". Which translates to "Egg laying wooly dairy sow". A miraculous farm animal that produces eggs, wool, milk, and meat at the same time.

Some people apparently don't understand that it doesn't exist.

Either you have a lonely path or one with perfect infrastructure!

Reminds me of a tourist lady in Belize who hired a local guide to take her to some ruins far away from any infrastructure ... and then she started complaining to that poor guide that he took her on "an adventure, not a trip". And for her "adventure" apparently was something terrible. She kept repeating this like a mantra "This is an adventure, not a trip!". Me and my British friend and our guide watched this from a distance: Howler monkeys, jungle, mayan ruins, a magnificent sight ... but then right in the centre of the scene this lady whining and complaining all the time as if she was hoping someone would safe her from this terrible situation.
She wanted a remote archeological site without any crowds ... and that is what she got. ;-)

 

[Arctic_Alex]

Ah, the bed inspectors.

I didn't know it was a thing until I did the CF and an American pilgrim asked the hospitalero to see the bed before he paid. His request was refused so he went somewhat else. Which is fine, I guess.
Bedbugs weren't really a concern at the time but he probably had a reason - like didn't want the room to be too cramped, or to be beside the bathroom etc

Some bed inspectors have indeed valid reasons, such as a bad back such that their next day or the whole Camino could be ruined if they slept in the wrong kind of bed.
But then, many are just picky I suppose.

 

[good_old_shoes]

Ah, the bed inspectors.

I didn't know it was a thing until I did the CF and an American pilgrim asked the hospitalero to see the bed before he paid. His request was refused so he went somewhat else. Which is fine, I guess.
Bedbugs weren't really a concern at the time but he probably had a reason - like didn't want the room to be too cramped, or to be beside the bathroom etc

I've left places after I had checked in - but I payed first, checked in, then left and did not ask for a refund.

Happened exactly twice - once in an albergue (room was full of bedbugs, and I also had seen bedbugs in the albergue I stayed at the night before - hospitaleros were completely indifferent to both problems) and once at a campsite (completely abandoned campsite, I was the only guest, in town with a vibe that made me nervous).

That's out of hundreds of nights I've stayed on the Caminos by now.

Inspecting beds is totally fine in my opinion (I'm allergic to bed bugs, I always check), but being an a***hole about it, leaving bad reviews ect. is not. Especially not in low cost municipals. Inform the hospitaleros about the issues, if they don't care, leave. No need to create drama.

If I am not happy with a 8€/night place then that's my personal problem. Can't expect anything for that amount of money - even most campsites charge double that amount.

If a place is not open when I arrive (shop, supermarket, albergue, whatever) well, bad luck or bad planning or both...!

Happens .

 

[David]

Rather than falling into ranting mode I do find it really funny when new pilgrims have no idea what siesta closing is and get angry!

 

[Kirkie]

A few days ago on one of the Facebook camino groups the topic of one-way ticket travel came up. The post was inquiring if it was risky, and one of the replies encouraged everyone simply to explain to the immigration agent that you are a pilgrim and that you don't know how long it will take.... 'they will understand.' All I could thing about was the puzzled look on the airline agents face, in Atlanta GA, who was no doubt imagining the Mayflower. Entitlement indeed.

But you see it elsewhere too, when pilgrims on the trail complain that there is a car driving down the road (he lives on that road and you are walking on his driveway) or that cyclists should ride elsewhere; presumably because this trail is for pilgrims and pilgrims only. From April to October I drive a great deal more carefully in the mornings, when pilgrim nearby wander off trail to follow the road (it's 100m shorter) while keeping their head down to monitor their progress on the phones... completely aloof to the very real threat around them.

I think that the concept of 'it's my camino and I can do it however I want' has been taken to its extreme.

I often say, only half joking, that the only real difference between pilgrimage today and pilgrimage 1000 years ago is bridges and wifi, and that for everything else there is a parallel. But I do wonder what the earliest pilgrims thought of themselves in relationship to the big world of non-pilgrims around them.

Tell me more...I would really like to know. I can say here that I have a special copy of a book written by a scholar, available to be collected by anyone, anyone, who passes by Dublin. Title: Medieval Irish Pilgrims to Santiago de Compostela. Author: Bernadette Cunningham. I will respond if anyone sends a pm. I know there are more copies available, Really, treasures, for those who care about origins.

 

[Robo]

A few days ago on one of the Facebook camino groups the topic of one-way ticket travel came up. The post was inquiring if it was risky, and one of the replies encouraged everyone simply to explain to the immigration agent that you are a pilgrim and that you don't know how long it will take.... 'they will understand.' All I could thing about was the puzzled look on the airline agents face, in Atlanta GA, who was no doubt imagining the Mayflower. Entitlement indeed.

I read it. Sadly lots were agreeing.
All to avoid buying a 'flexible'. return ticket........

 

[duncanwhyte]

I think that's the last town before Merida? The albergue is vandalised and closed. The shop has odd hours. I walked on to a public park and bivvied there for the night. Very bad for mosquito. But handy as a result of the closed town.

 

[Bradypus]

Probably the most ridiculous piece of entitled behaviour I've seen was in a private albergue in Najera some years ago. Young man in his 20's raging and swearing loudly at the hospitalero because his rucksack had not been delivered there. Mainly because he himself had given the delivery company a different address. The hospitalero was merely a target of opportunity with no part in the business.

 

[LTfit]

Entitlement. Yes, I see it everywhere on Facebook Camino groups. My fault of course, I belong to way too many groups, but it's quite pervasive.

Last week I read a comment by a woman who was shocked to hear that she had to limit the weight of her luggage transported by a company to about 13 kilos. I reacted by saying that unless there are medical issues, 13 kg shouldn't be a problem since I carry 7 kilos max on my back including water and snacks. I didn't get a response from her. I guess I should just stay away from such posts but sometimes I can't help myself

 

[zzotte]

I was walking through a small town with an ageing population of over 3000 ppl that marks the end of a (gronze) stage on the mozarabe and, in advance, checked the availability of grocery stores. One small shop opens daily from 10am to 1.30pm.
Obviously, that schedule isn't good for me so I'd better bring my own food. Or arrive early or set off late. (I brought food)

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

I think it's every pilgrim's obligation to be grateful and hopefully leave a good impression with our hosts.

Well said

 

[CanadianBarb]

Entitlement. Yes, I see it everywhere on Facebook Camino groups. My fault of course, I belong to way too many groups, but it's quite pervasive.

Last week I read a comment by a woman who was shocked to hear that she had to limit the weight of her luggage transported by a company to about 13 kilos. I reacted by saying that unless there are medical issues, 13 kg shouldn't be a problem since I carry 7 kilos max on my back including water and snacks. I didn't get a response from her. I guess I should just stay away from such posts but sometimes I can't help myself

Yes I find those are opportunities for a kind loving teachable moment - whether or not they are received is not under my control, I simply aim to walk with kindness, regardless.....

 

[simoncooper99]

I do remember somewhere on here having a meltdown as someone had parked their bike in a place that spoilt that ability to take an unobstructed photo of a particular momument!

That was Leon and as my local friends said the sign is there for a purpose - ie group photos etc and not as somewhere to park bikes. I have to add the for cyclists to follow the walking route how ever narrow and shout essentially "out of my way I am faster than you" to walkers is an example of extreme entitlement.

 

[silviasmart]

I was walking through a small town with an ageing population of over 3000 ppl that marks the end of a (gronze) stage on the mozarabe and, in advance, checked the availability of grocery stores. One small shop opens daily from 10am to 1.30pm.
Obviously, that schedule isn't good for me so I'd better bring my own food. Or arrive early or set off late. (I brought food)

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

I think it's every pilgrim's obligation to be grateful and hopefully leave a good impression with our hosts.

I read this on a sign somewhere: “Tourists demand. Pilgrims show gratitude.” Seems about right.

 

[sprinto]

I was walking through a small town with an ageing population of over 3000 ppl that marks the end of a (gronze) stage on the mozarabe and, in advance, checked the availability of grocery stores. One small shop opens daily from 10am to 1.30pm.
Obviously, that schedule isn't good for me so I'd better bring my own food. Or arrive early or set off late. (I brought food)

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

I think it's every pilgrim's obligation to be grateful and hopefully leave a good impression with our hosts.

Yes

 

[John Sikora]

One tolerant part of my mind tends to blame the entitlement on the way that the Camino is now portrayed. The adverts tend to say that it is easy (which it isn't), convienent (which it isn't), comfortable (which it can be but some days are just awful), and predictable (which it certainly isn't). It seems to be more and more advertised as a "walk in the park" type experience rather than the realively difficult walk, eat, walk, sleep, repeat cycle that we all know and love by now. Entitlements are bred of expectations, so be a little easy on some people. But, on others, well, they are just jerks and kharma will catch up to them at some point. See on the Norte in August

 

[Anthony18]

I was walking through a small town with an ageing population of over 3000 ppl that marks the end of a (gronze) stage on the mozarabe and, in advance, checked the availability of grocery stores. One small shop opens daily from 10am to 1.30pm.
Obviously, that schedule isn't good for me so I'd better bring my own food. Or arrive early or set off late. (I brought food)

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

I think it's every pilgrim's obligation to be grateful and hopefully leave a good impression with our hosts.

I couldn't agree with you more. So many out there who want the world to accomodate THEM instead of THEM adapting and adjusting to the world.

 

[jfgough]

I was walking through a small town with an ageing population of over 3000 ppl that marks the end of a (gronze) stage on the mozarabe and, in advance, checked the availability of grocery stores. One small shop opens daily from 10am to 1.30pm.
Obviously, that schedule isn't good for me so I'd better bring my own food. Or arrive early or set off late. (I brought food)

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

I think it's every pilgrim's obligation to be grateful and hopefully leave a good impression with our hosts.

Hopefully the local clientele do not care about poor reviews and will patronize this local business. I was a bit grumpy a few times when I was hungry or thirsty and nothing was open. I just mumble to myself about my poor planning. We are merely visitors in their town.

 

[Paladina]

On my first Camino hot water was such a rarity that I noted down in my diary the days when I found hot showers in a refugio. Remarkable how expectations have been raised over the years!

Some of us still don't have a constant supply of water, hot or cold, at home, and are therefore delighted to find any working showers in an albergue. Older members on this forum may even recall the tin bath in front of the fire...

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

One tolerant part of my mind tends to blame the entitlement on the way that the Camino is now portrayed. The adverts tend to say that it is easy (which it isn't), convienent (which it isn't), comfortable (which it can be but some days are just awful), and predictable (which it certainly isn't). It seems to be more and more advertised as a "walk in the park" type experience rather than the realively difficult walk, eat, walk, sleep, repeat cycle that we all know and love by now.

This is a very good point. No, the camino isn't trekking Mt. Everest or Nepal, but it's definitely not walk in the park. Part of the magical curse of the camino is that it strips away many of our daily distractions, which can be very uncomfortable (but ultimately freeing, imho). One is just left with walking (sometimes difficult, sometimes flat, sometimes muddy) terrain-in all kinds of weather, finding food, doing laundry, showering, hydrating....I've watched pilgrims of the hardy rugged type, from places like Colorado, absolutely melt down, because the camino is easy, right?

I'll speak for myself, but some of my hardest days on the camino are when I'm faced with myself, precisely because I do not have the usual distractions. I have a job, and that job is to put my backpack on and face the day, only to do it all over again the next day. I'm not on vacation, so I do not expect to be catered to in the same way.

This is my theory, at least.

 

[Hareforit]

I was walking through a small town with an ageing population of over 3000 ppl that marks the end of a (gronze) stage on the mozarabe and, in advance, checked the availability of grocery stores. One small shop opens daily from 10am to 1.30pm.
Obviously, that schedule isn't good for me so I'd better bring my own food. Or arrive early or set off late. (I brought food)

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

I think it's every pilgrim's obligation to be grateful and hopefully leave a good impression with our hosts.

Agree!!

 

[Anniesantiago]

Some bed inspectors have indeed valid reasons, such as a bad back such that their next day or the whole Camino coutld be ruined if they slept in the wrong kind of bed
But then, many are just picky I suppose.

If it's that important to one's health, it's probably best to book a private lodging.
To expect too much from a bed you're paying less than €20/night for is... the word that comes to mind .. ludicrous?

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Oh, I have seen if quite often, and not only with pilgrims. But not in my wider peer groups. It always seems to be "the distant others". If I ever saw such behaviour with a friend or colleague I would force him or her into a deep conversation afterwards ;-)

I remember a time when guide books, especially those published in north America, told readers that they ought to ask to inspect their rooms and that the hotelier would be happy if not eager to take time out from their busy schedule to show them around!

 

[Bradypus]

I remember a time when guide books, especially those published in north America, told readers that they ought to ask to inspect their rooms and that the hotelier would be happy if not eager to take time out from their busy schedule to show them around!

Probably the same guide books which tell people that their name will be read out at the pilgrim mass in the cathedral in Santiago. Of course the Dean will be overjoyed to name the 3,000+ on a busy day one-by-one.....

 

[Cheryl2445]

Why not just book a Camino Tour?

Why not just live and let live?

 

[david g]

On arriving at the last available Albergue, minutes before the sole Hospitalero went off duty, a small group asked to inspect the beds before checking in. They were surprised at the "No" response. They repeated the request to see the beds, and received another clear and firm "No".

Overhearing this, and knowing that the other Albergues were full, I piped up to assure them that the beds were very good. In fact, due to Covid, the privacy and spacing of beds was much better than my first stay there in 2018.

To ease the situation, I asked where they had walked from that day and then asked if they were Peregrinos, to which the lead person, in an only slightly less indignant tone said "Well, we have these passports", referring to their Credentials.

The Hospitalero, perhaps pretending to be reluctant, checked them in.

The beds may have been good, but I neglected to tell them that the showers never, ever produced hot water. All part of the wonderful experience that is the Camino.

Anyone care to guess which Albergue. It was on the Frances?

I’d guess maybe the municipal in Najera except for the hot water part

 

[Cheryl2445]

I was walking through a small town with an ageing population of over 3000 ppl that marks the end of a (gronze) stage on the mozarabe and, in advance, checked the availability of grocery stores. One small shop opens daily from 10am to 1.30pm.
Obviously, that schedule isn't good for me so I'd better bring my own food. Or arrive early or set off late. (I brought food)

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame...". Someone else left a 1-star rating and I'm guessing for similar reasons.

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from? People choose a camino devoid of crowds then moan that shops don't open especially for them at 8am (when they depart) or maybe 3-4pm when they arrive.

I think it's every pilgrim's obligation to be grateful and hopefully leave a good impression with our hosts.

100% agree with this. When in another country, it’s up to you, as a visitor, to acclimate to their way of doing things and be respectful. To try to hurt a small business with undeserved bad reviews is ridiculous. It’s probably the same people that are in this forum insulting anyone that doesn’t choose to do their Camino exactly like they think it should be done… Miserable people that aren’t happy unless they’re tearing others down. I’m shocked at how many of those I’ve seen on this forum.

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

100% agree with this. When in another country, it’s up to you, as a visitor, to acclimate to their way of doing things and be respectful. To try to hurt a small business with undeserved bad reviews is ridiculous. It’s probably the same people that are in this forum insulting anyone that doesn’t choose to do their Camino exactly like they think it should be done… Miserable people that aren’t happy unless they’re tearing others down. I’m shocked at how many of those I’ve seen on this forum.

eh, poor comparison, and it's bold to assume if someone is miserable or not. People have opinions and are free to express them. No one is tearing anyone down; if it gets to that point, moderators are quick to step in.

 

[JJW]

Entitlement. Yes, I see it everywhere on Facebook Camino groups. My fault of course, I belong to way too many groups, but it's quite pervasive.

Last week I read a comment by a woman who was shocked to hear that she had to limit the weight of her luggage transported by a company to about 13 kilos. I reacted by saying that unless there are medical issues, 13 kg shouldn't be a problem since I carry 7 kilos max on my back including water and snacks. I didn't get a response from her. I guess I should just stay away from such posts but sometimes I can't help myself

I guess one result of complainers broadcasting over many forums is that people like them that read the unreasonable complaints are probably no going to do a camino. Isn’t that a good thing for the sincere pilgrims who are considerate and appreciate the full experience? Good for all.

 

[Bradypus]

Miserable people that aren’t happy unless they’re tearing others down. I’m shocked at how many of those I’ve seen on this forum.

That does not sound like my experience of this forum. I have found the forum on the whole a respectful space and very well moderated - especially when compared with other platforms such as Facebook groups. There can be genuine differences of opinion which are not personal attacks. If you feel that a particular post oversteps the boundaries of respectful debate then report it and the moderators will consider if any action is necessary. Or perhaps pause and ask yourself if you are being overly sensitive and defensive on encountering an alternative point of view.

 

[Cheryl2445]

That does not sound like my experience of this forum. I have found the forum on the whole a respectful space and very well moderated - especially when compared with other platforms such as Facebook groups. There can be genuine differences of opinion which are not personal attacks. If you feel that a particular post oversteps the boundaries of respectful debate then report it and the moderators will consider if any action is necessary. Or perhaps pause and ask yourself if you are being overly sensitive and defensive on encountering an alternative point of view.

I’ve seen it 3 times now, and I’m fairly new to the forum and haven’t read all that many threads. On this thread alone, there is someone insulting people taking a baggage service, saying they should “just take a tour”. It’s not just giving an opinion, it’s trying to demean others. It’s a personal journey. Some people would do well to remember that and keep their negativity to themselves. There are many ways to do a Camino. We all think our way is the best way.

 

[Tandem Graham]

That was Leon and as my local friends said the sign is there for a purpose - ie group photos etc and not as somewhere to park bikes. I have to add the for cyclists to follow the walking route how ever narrow and shout essentially "out of my way I am faster than you" to walkers is an example of extreme entitlement.

Much better for cyclists to alert others to their presence with a bell and/or a shout than not. It also helps if they slow down to more or less walking pace when they encounter walkers.
Much better for walkers to be aware of their surroundings and of possible hazards, not just absorbed in their conversations or, more dangerously, their earphone-piped music.
There isn't a walking route. It's a pilgrimage route, for walking pilgrims, cycling pilgrims, horseback pilgrims. And for local walkers, car drivers who live alongside the path and local farmers with their machinery or livestock.
For it to work well for everyone requires mutual respect and tolerance between us all, though the "entitlement" expressed by a herd of long horned cows on their way to/from the milking parlour is much harder to argue with!

 

[SabsP]

That does not sound like my experience of this forum. I have found the forum on the whole a respectful space and very well moderated - especially when compared with other platforms such as Facebook groups. There can be genuine differences of opinion which are not personal attacks. If you feel that a particular post oversteps the boundaries of respectful debate then report it and the moderators will consider if any action is necessary. Or perhaps pause and ask yourself if you are being overly sensitive and defensive on encountering an alternative point of view.

Indeed! Completely agree about the tone of this forum.
I was once on a cookery forum. Never knew you could get so many judgements when discussing prepping a Béchamel sauce .

 

[Bradypus]

I’ve seen it 3 times now, and I’m fairly new to the forum and haven’t read all that many threads.

Have you reported these posts to the moderators? And if so have the moderators taken any action in reply?

 

[good_old_shoes]

On this thread alone, there is someone insulting people taking a baggage service, saying they should “just take a tour”.

That comment was made as a reply to another comment, which was about people who insisted to have their luggage transported to places like Airbnbs off Camino, where the normal Camino luggage services don't deliver to.

I've been noticing on Camino FB groups people who want to have their luggage transported, but have booked into Airbnbs or similar accommodations where the transport companies don't do drop-offs and pick-ups. And of course they are complaining about it.

I don't see that as a general insult to everyone who uses luggage transport.

It's criticism of those who expect their suitcases to be transported to places to where it is not possible to transport them to with the normal luggage transport companies. If those only ship to albergues and hostals along the route, and you expect them to make a detour off route for the same price, of course that's entitlement?

You can still send your luggage but please call a taxi and have it send your stuff then, or use a tour company that will organise luggage transport to whereever you want to.

Tour companies often book places far off Camino and organize the transport of their clients and clients luggage to these places. So that isnt't even bad advice...

 

[Cheryl2445]

Have you reported these posts to the moderators? And if so have the moderators taken any action in reply?

Admittedly, I haven’t. On one of them, one of the moderators came on to say that he thought the discussion was going to head south… and it did. It’s definitely the minority though. I just hate seeing it at all, because some of these judgmental, negative comments could potentially discourage someone from attempting their Camino.

 

[SabsP]

Admittedly, I haven’t. On one of them, one of the moderators came on to say that he thought the discussion was going to head south… and it did. It’s definitely the minority though. I just hate seeing it at all, because some of these judgmental, negative comments could potentially discourage someone from attempting their Camino.

I hardly believe that a less positive comment here would discourage someone to walk a Camino.
If that would be the case then they hold way too much importance to the given comment/ advise.
We are all adults here and able to make up our mind.

 

[Paladina]

Entitlement. Yes, I see it everywhere on Facebook Camino groups. My fault of course, I belong to way too many groups, but it's quite pervasive.

Last week I read a comment by a woman who was shocked to hear that she had to limit the weight of her luggage transported by a company to about 13 kilos. I reacted by saying that unless there are medical issues, 13 kg shouldn't be a problem since I carry 7 kilos max on my back including water and snacks. I didn't get a response from her. I guess I should just stay away from such posts but sometimes I can't help myself

I've often wondered whether hospitaleros have their own private forum for warning colleagues about pilgrims from hell coming their way.

 

[El Cascayal]

And i wonder where this sense of entitlement comes from?

I felt this acutely while walking the Norte this past October. Peregrinos repeatedly insisting that the locals speak English to them and lots of condescending behavior towards hospitaleros and folks working the bars. I was shocked and angry. Took some of the Peregrinos aside and had a little conversation with them in English. It wasn’t pretty. It’s a lasting bad taste that lingers & I don’t know where does this entitlement come from?

 

[Cheryl2445]

I hardly believe that a less positive comment here would discourage someone to walk a Camino.
If that would be the case then they hold way too much importance to the given comment/ advise.
We are all adults here and able to make up our mind.

If someone has issues with mobility and are already on the fence, some jerk coming on here insulting those doing it with a luggage service, may indeed discourage them. Indeed.. we’re all adults. Too bad some on here don’t know how to mind their own business and act like one. I’m not going to reply to anyone else. Anyone that thinks the negativity is alright is likely a big part of the problem.

 

[El Cascayal]

I've often wondered whether hospitaleros have their own private forum for warning colleagues about pilgrims from hell coming their way.

On some Caminos, they sorta do.

 

[Tandem Graham]

On this thread alone, there is someone insulting people taking a baggage service, saying they should “just take a tour”.

Hi Cheryl,
Perhaps you are inadvertently misrepresenting that comment which seems to have offended you.
It refers to people who use baggage-carrying services but complain about the reality that not all accommodations will receive baggage transported this way, and baggage transport providers, in order to make a reasonable living, will not deliver to every accommodation, particularly to those not directly on the Way.
In any case, the advice to book a Camino tour isn't pejorative. It may be the best way for people, who may be used to a more packaged style of vacation, to experience some aspects of the camino without the self reliance or bare-bones aspects which others prefer and cherish.
This forum contains over a million posts from many thousands of users. I'm sure if any of us looked hard enough, we could find posts which made us angry. But it also contains much useful advice, fascinating stories, personal reflections, history and humour. That's what we keep coming back for and I'm sure you can find it too.
Buen Camino!

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

If someone has issues with mobility and are already on the fence, some jerk coming on here insulting those doing it with a luggage service, may indeed discourage them. Indeed.. we’re all adults. Too bad some on here don’t know how to mind their own business and act like one. I’m not going to reply to anyone else. Anyone that thinks the negativity is alright is likely a big part of the problem.

I mean, we can't have that much control over what grown adults do or say, nor how someone internalizes comments on the internet. It sounds like you've taken some of the above comments (which other forum members have clarified for you) personally, based on how you are walking your camino, not how a future phantom camino pilgrim may interpret them.

 

[Tandem Graham]

If someone has issues with mobility and are already on the fence, some jerk coming on here insulting those doing it with a luggage service, may indeed discourage them. Indeed.. we’re all adults. Too bad some on here don’t know how to mind their own business and act like one. I’m not going to reply to anyone else. Anyone that thinks the negativity is alright is likely a big part of the problem.

Is calling a contributor a 'jerk' (having misinterpreted their comment) improving the inclusivity of the forum?

 

[Arctic_Alex]

To calm the waves in my personal sea, I will use a special forum function now ...

 

[CWBuff]

I believe I mentioned these before in similar thread(s)

My wife worked for a hotel for 15 years. She used to entertain me with the stories of various reviews thei hotel received. The most memorable ones (both 1-star) were

Came with a whole family on vacation. Was really looking forward to it. It rained all freakin' week. Didn't see any sun throughout our stay!

Came in for a job interview (Mind you - NOT with the hotel; this person just simply stayed at the hotel while the job interview was with some company in the area). Didnt get it.

Aside the reviews there was a convention where people were cooking food on small portable burners in their rooms and used the toilet tanks for an impromptu refrigerators (so they would wrap, say, the whole chicken or a package of meat in cellophane or use a plastic bag and just dunk it into the tank)

AH... to be able to be entitled!!!! Somehow I just cannot bring myself to so that

 

[trecile]

If someone has issues with mobility and are already on the fence, some jerk coming on here insulting those doing it with a luggage service, may indeed discourage them

I'm sorry that you misunderstood @Robo's comment. As mentioned by others he was reacting to my comment about people who want to use pack transfer, but don't want to stay in accommodations serviced by pack transfer companies.

@Robo isn't against pilgrims using these services - he has had his pack transferred on occasion himself. The entitlement factor for these people is expecting tour company service from luggage transport companies for only €7.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I’ve seen it 3 times now, and I’m fairly new to the forum and haven’t read all that many threads. On this thread alone, there is someone insulting people taking a baggage service, saying they should “just take a tour”. It’s not just giving an opinion, it’s trying to demean others. It’s a personal journey. Some people would do well to remember that and keep their negativity to themselves. There are many ways to do a Camino. We all think our way is the best way.

Personally, I didn't take Robo's comment that way.
It is difficult to express oneself in these forums without the benefit of facial expression or body language.
What I see more often is people who seem to WANT to be offended.
It's tiring.
Maybe it's just a side-affect of social media, something that COULD be used to bring us together, but is a double edged sword and often does just the opposite.

 

[good_old_shoes]

there was a convention where people were cooking food on small portable burners in their rooms and used the toilet tanks for an impromptu refrigerators (so they would wrap, say, the whole chicken or a package of meat in cellophane or use a plastic bag and just dunk it into the tank)

That is hilarious.

During my hikes I've put some cheese in a plastic container, put that in a river, and a heavy stone on top so that the container doesn't sail away, as an "improvised refrigerator" on 40°C days when camping...

But putting food into the toilet tanks is a life hack I never heard of. Amazing. A little bit disgusting, too, but you never know when you'll be desperate enough...!

 

[JJW]

That is hilarious.

During my hikes I've put some cheese in a plastic container, put that in a river, and a heavy stone on top so that the container doesn't sail away, as an "improvised refrigerator" on 40°C days when camping...

But putting food into the toilet tanks is a life hack I never heard of. Amazing. A little bit disgusting, too, but you never known when you'll be desperate enough...!

I agree and this hack is probably one of the best rants so far.

The string title is like a red cape to a bull. But there seems to be something ironic about people complaining about complainers.

 

[CWBuff]

The string title is like a red cape to a bull. But there seems to be something ironic about people complaining about cocomplainers

Well... we can go to the OP and say...
"Oh yeah ? You think you're entitled to rant about the entitlement?"
Of course we then DO insert a smiley least we get chewed out for some perceivered meaning whilst being accused of the crime we didn't commit!!!

 

[peregrina2000]

On this thread alone, there is someone insulting people taking a baggage service, saying they should “just take a tour”

i think you’re taking Robo’s comment out of context, though he is perfectly capable of defending himself. He was responding to the previous comment that had noted how people are complaining that their 6-7 € luggage transport service doesn’t allow dropping off at an airbnb, which presumably would require the owner of the facility and the luggage transport guy to get together and set up delivery, etc. If you expect to have the amenities that a tour offers, take a tour! They are plentiful and readily available on many camino routes. I don’t think that insults anyone.

 

[trecile]

It's also a bit entitled to complain about the "crowds" after Sarria when the largest group of pilgrims on that stretch are Spaniards walking in their own country! And also that we are contributing to the "crowd" by being on the trail ourselves.

 

[dagreen]

If you don’t like bad reviews about El Camino, stay away from the Codex Calixtinus Book 5.

 

[C clearly]

Some entitled git left a 2 star review, "Bad schedule that is not operational for visitors or pilgrims who do the Camino Mozarabe... a shame..."

Would that be a translation of "Mal horario que no es operativo para visitantes ni peregrinos que hacemos el Camino Mozárabe de Santiago... una pena" ?

If so, I think you are stirring a tempest in a teapot, just in the way we like to criticize social media for. A better translation might be "Bad schedule that doesn't work for visitors or pilgrims doing the Camino Mozarabe... a pain/bother." That is not so much entitlement, as it is a warning and statement of frustration.

It’s probably the same people that are in this forum insulting anyone that doesn’t choose to do their Camino exactly like they think it should be done… Miserable people that aren’t happy unless they’re tearing others down. I’m shocked at how many of those I’ve seen on this forum.

some jerk coming on here insulting those doing it with a luggage service

Cheryl - I am offended by your claims and assumptions about this community. We have quite a variety of members - all with personalities and imperfections and almost all with good intentions. The member who you so harshly insult has been a good and kind contributor for many years. Your anger is misplaced.

I’m fairly new to the forum and haven’t read all that many threads... Some people would do well to remember that and keep their negativity to themselves.

Very true.

As a moderator who would be interested in whether we are doing a good job, I am curious if you could refer me to another forum that is open to the public and that is more courteous and civilized?

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

Is it only me that’s really dislikes these types of sayings!!

yes...

Just kidding. I personally love succinctness of this particular saying.

 

[C clearly]

Is it only me that’s really dislikes these types of sayings!!

No.

 

[Bradypus]

Is it only me that’s really dislikes these types of sayings!!

No - they wind me up too! A particular anti-favourite is "the Camino provides... "

 

[TravellingMan22]

No - they wind me up too! A particular anti-favourite is "the Camino provides... "

Yes me too!!

 

[Annette london]

Ha ha fingers itching but I’m keeping away from this one!

 

[kathyandthomas]

A few days ago on one of the Facebook camino groups the topic of one-way ticket travel came up. The post was inquiring if it was risky, and one of the replies encouraged everyone simply to explain to the immigration agent that you are a pilgrim and that you don't know how long it will take.... 'they will understand.' All I could thing about was the puzzled look on the airline agents face, in Atlanta GA, who was no doubt imagining the Mayflower. Entitlement indeed.

But you see it elsewhere too, when pilgrims on the trail complain that there is a car driving down the road (he lives on that road and you are walking on his driveway) or that cyclists should ride elsewhere; presumably because this trail is for pilgrims and pilgrims only. From April to October I drive a great deal more carefully in the mornings, when pilgrim nearby wander off trail to follow the road (it's 100m shorter) while keeping their head down to monitor their progress on the phones... completely aloof to the very real threat around them.

I think that the concept of 'it's my camino and I can do it however I want' has been taken to its extreme.

I often say, only half joking, that the only real difference between pilgrimage today and pilgrimage 1000 years ago is bridges and wifi, and that for everything else there is a parallel. But I do wonder what the earliest pilgrims thought of themselves in relationship to the big world of non-pilgrims around them.

1000 years ago, they all were pilgrims in the truest sense. Today it's a mix of pilgrims and tourists. My guess is that entitled crowd are part of the tourist group.

 

[TravellingMan22]

1000 years ago, they all were pilgrims in the truest sense. Today it's a mix of pilgrims and tourists. My guess is that entitled crowd are part of the tourist group.

Why do you think that?

 

[SabsP]

1000 years ago, they all were pilgrims in the truest sense. Today it's a mix of pilgrims and tourists. My guess is that entitled crowd are part of the tourist group.

Better do not go into this discussion. See forumrules!

Aside that: a tourist visiting Santiago can be very well behaved and a pilgrim who walked 1000 k can be irritating and self absorbed.

 

[C clearly]

1000 years ago, they all were pilgrims in the truest sense. Today it's a mix of pilgrims and tourists. My guess is that entitled crowd are part of the tourist group.

And with that, it is time to close this thread. Please read Rule 3.