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A truly Spiritual Journey

Rebekah Scott

Camino Busybody
Time of past OR future Camino
Many, various, and continuing.
I have noticed a minor trend toward some pilgrims setting out for Santiago with a true spiritual impetus behind their walk. They are doing it to explore Divine Providence, or because they felt "called by the Lord" to walk and seek a deeper revelation. Or maybe it is a simple meditative practice, or they use their walk as a prayer for a particular person, cause, or issue. Some of us even walk for the souls of the dead!

I know many peregrinos discover or re-discover faith on this Road. But how many of us are setting out on the path with a clear spiritual motivation already in place? How is your pilgrimage taking shape? How did your spiritual vision change as you planned, then walked or biked or rode?

If you are a Pilgrim of Faith, how is your pilgrimage different from anyone else´s?
 
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Reb, you might be interested in reading this account. The (Catholic) Archbishop of Wellington (New Zealand) recently walked the Camino as part of several pilgrimage experiences he had in Europe. He reflects a little on the Camino here, and talks about the 'saints' that accompanied him. http://welcom.org.nz/?sid=1435
Margaret
 
I made my first Camino (Le Puy-SDC) in 1990ish; it was absolutely wonderful, a profound experience. So later I did another (Jaca-SDC). Needless to say and with hindsight, the second was not as energising as the first and was a naive attempt to experience again the first Way. But it was a rewarding camino, even then. However, not learning my lesson, I've since walked Salamanca-SDC and Porto-SDC. Plus a few Le Puy-Conques caminos.(This is not to say how great I am, because more certainly isnt better:more could be worse!). The point is that all were excellent Ways but I never rediscovered that (to coin a phrase) lightness of being I had on the first. I've thought about this for some time but havent really found the full answer.

My caminos are not religious, but might be called secular spiritual ways. A bit pompous that, but there it is. I may reflect on/discover/ values and meanings, explore the inner life, feel connected to others, to history, nature and weather. I may reflect on the fleeting nature of all I see, including myself. Yet on my first way, I was very much in the moment, the now, and did not reflect much, but rather immersed myself in the moment, the day. My later walks were more reflective, but not the first. On my last walk, there was at least one new element; I honoured both the dead and those who mourned, on the Way and in SDC.

I confess to an unwise attachment to the first way, but I value the rest. I've questioned why I continue to do caminos, have no good answer, and will continue with them. I accept how I/they have changed and evolved. I've walked a pilgrimage in India round a holy mountain but it didnt speak to me at all. I've done treks in amazing places so I know my caminos are not substitute treks. I have more questions than answers about all this. I've asked myself -Too many caminos, too much of a good thing? - and then rejected that thought.

If I give the impression that I'm a sad soul trying vainly to resurrect the past -it's not so. I wouldnt do caminos if that were the case. I find the later ones give new directions, and are so valuable there. Maybe they only lack the excitement of the "first date"!

I haven't really expressed it well here, and it's an elusive issue to discuss. Each time I assert something, I think of a counter assertion: each time I say something, I think, "Hey, on the other hand".

I'll think on it more: I look forward to other responses. :arrow: :D
 
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
Caminando...not so, not so: we can never do our "first" Camino again. And why? Because we have learned and moved on and because perhaps we have found that in finding answers to our earlier questions we have generated questions anew. We can be afraid of this...or we can recognise the implicit answers we were reluctant to accept, and the challenge. Maybe that's why you keep walking? Maybe that's how we learn to stop imposing what we think "should" be and learn simply to (and accept)know what IS.
Either way there is more "OUT THERE" for you to discover and only you can know how close (geographically; in terms of spiritual acceptace) or how far that will need to take you to get close/there. And I truly think that you will know when that passing point takes place. You will know but you need to "silence" everything else in order to listen. It takes discipline to filter out - use meditation:practice.
TS
 
Rebekah Scott said:
If you are a Pilgrim of Faith, how is your pilgrimage different from anyone else´s?

If you are not a Pilgrim of Faith (if I understand this term properly - and I may not), you are taking a long walk, not making a pilgrimage.

The Pilgrimage museum in Santiago has some excellent material about the nature of pilgrimage in the first room.

In Santiago this year I was having a few cold ones with two Dutchmen who had walked from their homes in Holland. We discussed our motivation, why do we do this, and quickly concluded that we do it because we like it. Does this mean we are not pilgrims?
 
Funny thing that, because in the film The Way the question: "Why are You Doing the Camino?" seems uppermost but shows a flawed or ignorant perspective on the part of the director/producer Estevez. This is a question rarely asked. Privacy is expected. Maybe this is what he truly wanted to investigate with this film; yet in pushing the point is where it fails. In my experience this is a question left unsaid. It is personal and unimportant to anyone else and this is why at least two of the characters of the film do not come across as "true" (forgive me) pilgrims. Perhaps, and this is a subjective opinion, because many of us have to get to the "End" of the Camino before we ever dare to ask our selves that question.
Tracy Saunders
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com
http://www.pilgfrimagetoheresy.blogspot.com
 
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Priscillian said:
Caminando...not so, not so: we can never do our "first" Camino again. And why? Because we have learned and moved on
TS

Yes Pr.,I agree. Only on my second camino did I make that error - on the others I didn't ;I "have moved on". I may not have made that clear. But I had to do the second in order to find that out.

Your other comments are thoughtful and interesting......

Later..

...on second thoughts, Pr., you've made a total misreading and misunderstanding of my post. I think you had a fixed idea and couldn't see past it.
 
AJ said:
If you are not a Pilgrim of Faith (if I understand this term properly - and I may not), you are taking a long walk, not making a pilgrimage.

I understand what you mean but I am always personally uncomfortable with definitions of what makes a pilgrim let alone what makes a Pilgrim of Faith. No doubt for some people their faith is clear to them and devoutly held. Some of the rest of us struggle along living with doubts and conflicts and trying to make sense of the journey of life and beyond. I suspect that many people set out to make a long walk and some become pilgrims on the way.
 
JohnnieWalker said:
I understand what you mean but I am always personally uncomfortable with definitions of what makes a pilgrim let alone what makes a Pilgrim of Faith. No doubt for some people their faith is clear to them and devoutly held. Some of the rest of us struggle along living with doubts and conflicts and trying to make sense of the journey of life and beyond. I suspect that many people set out to make a long walk and some become pilgrims on the way.

Thanks for this Johnnie - paradoxically it contains a lot of what I would want to say if I was pressed to define what a pilgrim is.

this is a very helpful thread,

Andy (who has tried to put a lot of reflections on what a pilgrimage walked in faith - both on the Camino and in life since - on his blog)
 
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I honestly don't know why the terms "pilgrim" or "true pilgrim" have to be defined for our context. Being a pilgrim is, as many have attested, a personal experience that may or may not evolve over one, or several pilgrimages. It is what it is for each one of us.
I understand Rebekah's interest in anecdotal accounts of spiritual experience on a pilgrimage, but that is different.
To rehash the comparisons and definitions of pilgrims and pilgrimages (yet again) as if one must always aspire to be a "true pilgrim" does not serve our diverse community, in my opinion. Even when the discussion is intended to be non-judgmental and benign, someone always ends up offended or bruised.

lynne
 
On my first Camino, I gathered the prayers of my friends, family, and supporters, and carried them to Santiago (for the Christian ones) or Finisterra (for the pagan ones). Each day, as I walked, I meditated on each person and their problem or request. When I arrived at Santiago, I left the Christian prayers there in the Cathedral. I burned the pagan prayers at what I call the hermitage at Finisterra. It was a wonderful way to walk.

On my last Camino, I walked and prayed for clarity for myself... to find myself and to decide a course for my life, which I felt was stagnating. I found the kindness of strangers, many Camino miracles, my own inner strength, and all else I sought, calmly and finally leaving my 14 year relationship and setting out on my own. I remembered who I was and the things that gave me joy and were important to me.

My next walk, and possibly my last, will be from Rome to Santiago with two ladies who are also turning 60 that year. I haven't yet decided on a Quest, but I'm sure one will come to me.

Not particularly religious to begin with, I considered myself spiritual. I find myself becoming more religious as time passes, finding my faith again, which I lost along the way.

I think the Camino is there for everyone for whatever their purpose, and sometimes pilgrims are surprised to find what they lost... without ever knowing it was gone!
 
"Pilgrims" and "True Pilgrims"?

In pilgrimage we travel together but walk alone. It is unlike any other journey.

If an "adventure" is a journey of uncertain outcome? I understand a Pilgrimage to be a defined route to travel. From the beginning to the end. Asked to do by no-one but yourself, an instinct or holy call. I'd like to think a Pilgrimage is an adventure. But the adventure is from within, personal.

I've sailed with people across the Atlantic - Canaries to Caribbean. Caribbean to Europe.
Some to "tick the box". That's all they did and went away.
Some for a change of scene. And some as a prayer, to commune with God.
Both of these showed me beyond doubt we are body, soul and spirit, and all these benefit and grow. All voyages have their gales, calms, sunshine and fog. But beyond that they personally had an adventure.

Perhaps that is why Camino walkers are presented with a choice: 'Compostela' or 'Certificado'.

Travelling a defined Camino; where is your adventure?
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
JohnnieWalker said:
I understand what you mean but I am always personally uncomfortable with definitions of what makes a pilgrim let alone what makes a Pilgrim of Faith.

I have the same problem and would extend it to include the word "spiritual". However, I do think the material in the pilgrim museum that I referred to is helpful, at the very least thought provoking.

This subject is very important. Too many people who think that they are worshiping God are actually playing games.
 
Priscillian said:
Funny thing that, because in the film The Way the question: "Why are You Doing the Camino?" seems uppermost ....This is a question rarely asked. Privacy is expected.....In my experience this is a question left unsaid. It is personal and unimportant to anyone else....

If the above were true then Reb wouldn't have asked -
"...how many of us are setting out on the path with a clear spiritual motivation already in place? How is your pilgrimage taking shape? How did your spiritual vision change as you planned, then walked or biked or rode?
If you are a Pilgrim of Faith how is your pilgrimage different from anyone else's?"

Not to mention the many "personal" blogs detailing peoples reasoning for making their own pilgrimage which are in turn read by many who are in fact interested in them and thus are not "unimportant"

Then there is the film you mention. It would not have been made if there was no interest in the "why".

And do you not have your own "pilgrimage" book discussing in part your own reasons for making your own pilgrimage Tracey?

To those who have answered Rebekah's question so far the question may be personal but it is not unimportant.

To answer your last question Rebekah as a "pilgrim of faith" (i removed capitalisation from your original text as it implies to me at least an unwarranted stress on the words) i simply cannot answer except to say that each persons pilgrimage is probably as varied as the people making them - spiritual or otherwise.
And there will be as much variation from one "pilgrim of faith" to another as well as there will be for pilgrimages for any reason.

I think the common denominator is that we are all on a journey of discovery. Whether it be for religous reasons of any kind, to 'find' one's self, to enjoy a simpler way for a while, to learn more about the history etc of the particular pilgrimage being undertaken, to seek new friends etc. And probably a combination of all the above to some degree for most of us.

I know why i am making this particular pilgrimage as i knew why i made other pilgrimages. Simply it is more focused and concentrated way of the pilgrimage of life itself.

I have no preconceptions of what i will discover on my journey - all i know is i will discover something.

I agree with you Tracey when you implied one would do well to "listen" and meditate on lifes journey and be still for a while.

I am deliberately being vague about my own "why" because i have strong views that are best shared in a way that can be less open to misinterpretation than in a text forum lol.

I am pleased to see so many people interested in sharing their reasons "why" and so many people interested in reading and hearing them. We are one family after all even though like any family we can share negatives as well as positives.

God bless us all and help us be open to each other without intolerance.

Chris
 
Reb asked
But how many of us are setting out on the path with a clear spiritual motivation already in place?
I can hold my hand up to this question and say that my walk was planned as a spiritual journey, starting at Exeter Cathedral at a Service of Holy Communion and ending at the Pilgrim Mass in Compostela. In England I walked one of the old 'Pilgrim Routes' from Exeter, past Buckfast Abbey and St. Mary's Priory at Plympton - both recognised mediaeval pilgrim stopovers - to catch a boat to the north coast of Spain from Plymouth.
As I have said on another thread: What made it special for me was the fact that I was accepted for myself, without any of the 'labels' which I have gathered down the years. I would NOT want to say that I got more out of the experience than anyone doing the Camino for other reasons. Just that the way I did it suited me, and was exactly right for that time on my journey through life.
I trust that others, walking The Way for whatever reason, may find that their hopes are fulfilled. Also that their experience of sharing with fellow pilgrims in the joys and sorrows, highs and lows of the journey may be part of a precious memory of their 'Long Walk'!

Blessings on all your memories and on your future planning and walking.
Tio Tel
 
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
I really didn´t set out to stir up the old Real Pilgrim vs. Fake Pilgrim question.

I recall reading Aymeric Picaud, etc., the pilgrims who traveled the camino at its peak 700 years ago... they were very religious travelers. They sang particular pilgrimage hymns, they attended Mass every time they found one, they had readings and prayers together, or sometimes on their own. I am interested in pilgrims´ spiritual practices during the walk. Do you pray? Use prayer rope or rosary? Do you stop and meditate in any formal fashion? I wonder if there is any particular pilgrim spiritual guide or breviary in use for pilgrims who want to be steeped in prayer and worship as they walk or ride.

I don´t want to invade anyone´s privacy, that is not my intent. I am interested, though, at how "tolerance" of non-Christian peregrinos has made Christian pilgrims feel they need to hide their rosaries or blunt their experience so their faith does not "offend" fellow travelers. The pilgrimage to Santiago was/is designed to support a Christian journey, (Like it or not, them´s the facts,) but many active Christians keep a very low profile.
The Christian infrastructure so apparent along The Way is often seen as a rustic and colorful artifact of Spain´s Catholic past: pilgrims come into the vespers or rural Sunday Mass, but get up and leave halfway through, once the entertainment value wears off. "We´re pilgrims. We have to walk. We don´t have time to stop for Mass," I´ve been told! :P I don´t think the majority of pilgrims has any idea how ironic that is!
So... how does an observant Christian make a Christian pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela, on a day-to-day basis? What does he do that makes his Path a religous one?
 
Rebekah, I call myself a Christian but I don't think I'm a practising one in the usual sense. That is, I have not found a denomination that does not trouble me, one way or another. So, I think, (I'm not sure) that I walked to find and understand my faith. I tried to be a "spiritual" pilgrim... prayed at many chapels and cruceiros and often just sat quietly and looked inward. I was much affected by the walk.
Chris
(that's right, another Chris)
 
When a group of friends walked with me from Le Puy this September, we walked as members of the same Episcopal parish who were interested in making the experience "a retreat on the move". We had several people who were initially interested in joining us, but when they found out we planned to pray, decided against it. We began every morning with a group prayer. Hillclimbs were typically accomplished to endless rounds of "We Are Marching in the Light of God". Initially we had also planned to do evening prayer but found we were just too exhausted. And we attended Mass or vespers whenever the opportunity arose. After the first week, when my friends peeled off on their individual itineraries according to plan, I continued. Phillip Newell's "Celtic Prayers from Iona" on my Kindle was my daily resource. I stopped in every church I passed (quiet seats, great place to catch up on the daily journal), often lighting a vigil candle.
 
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Rebekah Scott said:
So... how does an observant Christian make a Christian pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela, on a day-to-day basis? What does he do that makes his Path a religous one?
As "an observant" Christian having made two previous pilgrimages (though not to Santiago de Compostela yet- for a Christian especially a Catholic there are two other more primary pilgrimages than Compostela :) ) and knowing a few other travelled pilgrims from various Christian denominations (I myself am Catholic) I would say the common denominator for us all is to gain a closer personal relationship with God. This is the primary reason uppermost in the mind and hearts of the Christians i have been, and am, in contact with across the world.
There are various other more self orientated reasons for the individual pilgrim just as there are with the more secular pilgrim though being 'God focused' is the 'aim' of our journey. Yes prayers for the living, the dead, petitions, penitential reasons etc all can be motivations to undertake a pilgrimage to any of our Holy places and these are all valid. But behind all these reasons is God. I am not sure the intent is to make our pilgrimage 'a religious one" more to allow it as a means to listen to God more attentively and with less day to day distractions.

Rebekah Scott said:
I am interested in pilgrims´ spiritual practices during the walk. Do you pray? Use prayer rope or rosary? Do you stop and meditate in any formal fashion? I wonder if there is any particular pilgrim spiritual guide or breviary in use for pilgrims who want to be steeped in prayer and worship as they walk or ride.......
Many Christian pilgrims pray and meditate on their journey. As Fr. Cobb mentions in his "Field of Stars" book he uses a rosary and i do too. The Rosary is a particular pilgrims prayer as its very repetitiveness and rhythm is suited to the walking motion of a long journey and encourages the state of mind to begin meditaion and contemplation and was indeed the prayer of choice for Christian pilgrims. Although this method of walking prayer is far older than the Christian tradition Christianity has adopted the technique with it's own prayers and the Rosary became a common household prayer as well as a pilgrims prayer. (The history of the Rosary is easily searchable on the internet)
There are no "formal" ways to meditate although a priest may offer Mass on a daily basis. For the Catholic laity there is a book (or indeed set of books) called the Divine Office that we are encouraged to pray on a daily basis and although this is not always practical for many on a day to day basis a pilgrimage is an ideal oportunity to do this.
Of course there is primarily the Holy Bible and this is the source of all our meditations - the Divine Office is a way to pray with the Bible in a more instructive and comprehensible way.
Stopping to celebrate Mass on a daily basis is often seen as a true blessing of a pilgrimage for many Catholics as this is not always possible in the "real" world. And to meet a priest along the way is always a joy as we know we can always celebrate Mass then. Again for non Catholic Christians of many denominations this is also a blessing. The Catholic Church is more open today to all denominations and religions than it ever was(Thanks be to God!!). Catholicism aside the Christian faith is rich with many varied prayers and meditaions that are often employed along a Christians pilgrimage.

Rebekah Scott said:
I am interested, though, at how "tolerance" of non-Christian peregrinos has made Christian pilgrims feel they need to hide their rosaries or blunt their experience so their faith does not "offend" fellow travelers......

This is indeed a most pertinant question to a Christian and one that desreves to be answered. Your italicised word "tolerance" is the clue to your reference of Christian pilgrims feeling the need to "hide" their rosaries or "blunt" their experiences though it is not so they don't "offend" fellow travelers. It is so they are not offended by them.
If a pilgrim is walking and praying i would argue that this offends no-one yet on a personal level i have been ridiculed for walking with a rosary in my hand, verbally abused in a particularly nasty manner (think the media attention on certain priests over the last 3 -4 years.....) and engaged in conversation about my faith with the only intent to have all that is unholy forced to the fore of the discussion. And this has all happened by fellow "pilgrims" on my last two pilgrimages.
On the same journeys I have been encouraged and blessed by many people too so i am not making a complaint. Just a reason why many Christians may want to keep their faith "private" (Not everyone has the strength of Christ Himself to bare abuses!)
Of course everyone is entitled to their beliefs yet certain members the various Christian denominations as well as of any other faith or creed and indeed certain members of professed atheism can all be intolerant of others beliefs.
Of course for Christians it doesn't help with the various abuses and ungodly practices of certain of its members and the media will always pick up on the negatives never the positives (Check out CAFOD and how much funding it generates for ALL afflicted people of any race, creed or politic as an example. Yes it is a Catholic organisation and its use as an example is because I am Catholic lol)
I don't want to get into any debate here - Rebekah asked out of interest and in good faith and I am only answering for myself and those i know.

Rebekah Scott said:
The pilgrimage to Santiago was/is designed to support a Christian journey, (Like it or not, them´s the facts,) but many active Christians keep a very low profile......
Why wouldn't anyone not like the facts? If it wasn't for Christians I doubt if any of the non Christians here would have walked to Santiago de Compostela as it wouldn't have existed lol.
Joking aside - the Camino still supports many Christains and happily many non Christians these days too! If only we could all be a little more "tolerant" of each others beliefs or none then no one would feel belittled in anyway. Even in these forums there is a certain suspicion of motives from some members towards others though for me i accept this as i do in any walk of life i encounter. People are people.
We can only pray for ourselves to be more forgiving and accepting and loving and if that isn't part of a pilgrimage of faith i don't know what is lol.

God bless us all and here in these wonderful forums and if i should meet any of you on my own pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela i hope you will stop with me for a while in prayer and/OR meditation.

Chris
 
Om mani padme hum.....
Om mani padme hum ......

(om mani padme hum, means that in dependence on the practice of a path which is an indivisible union of method and wisdom, you can transform your impure body, speech, and mind into the pure exalted body, speech, and mind of a Buddha: Dalai Lama)
 
I've done parts of the Camino twice now (VDLP), once alone and once with my husband. On the first trip I collected prayers from family/friends and prayed for one intention per leg. It was fascinating how things coincided. I stopped to admire a church cemetery, and saw my next prayer intention was for a friend's dying mother. My eyes were drawn to a row of colorful houses, and the next intention was for the quick sale of someone's condo.

I've never felt others judged me positively or negatively for my beliefs, but in 14 days on the Camino now, I've only run into a combined total of five other people, so the issue hasn't really come up!
 
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PilgrimChris said:
Many Christian pilgrims pray and meditate on their journey. As Fr. Cobb mentions in his "Field of Stars" book he uses a rosary and i do too. The Rosary is a particular pilgrims prayer as its very repetitiveness and rhythm is suited to the walking motion of a long journey and encourages the state of mind to begin meditaion and contemplation and was indeed the prayer of choice for Christian pilgrims. Although this method of walking prayer is far older than the Christian tradition Christianity has adopted the technique with it's own prayers and the Rosary became a common household prayer as well as a pilgrims prayer. (The history of the Rosary is easily searchable on the internet)Chris

Yes.

An excellent post Chris.
 
A Bike Ride and the Zen Master
A Zen Teacher saw five of his students return from the market, riding their bicycles. When they had dismounted, the teacher asked the students,
"Why are you riding your bicycles?"
The first student replied, "The bicycle is carrying this sack of potatoes. I am glad that I do not have to carry them on my back!"
The teacher praised the student, saying, "You are a smart boy. When you grow old, you will not walk hunched over, as I do."
The second student replied, "I love to watch the trees and fields pass by as I roll down the path."
The teacher commended the student, "Your eyes are open and you see the world."
The third student replied, "When I ride my bicycle, I am content to chant, nam myoho renge kyo."
The teacher gave praise to the third student, "Your mind will roll with the ease of a newly trued wheel."
The fourth student answered, "Riding my bicycle, I live in harmony with all beings."
The teacher was pleased and said, "You are riding on the golden path of non-harming."
The fifth student replied, "I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle."
The teacher went and sat at the feet of the fifth student, and said, "I am your disciple."
 
Reb,
The woman from Quebec that I was walking with the day you picked me up, had a very religious aspect to her pilgrimage. Both L and her husband D had been well informed about the Camino by attending sessions at home in Quebec before they walked, and they had made various preparations as a result. D's mother had made a small cross that they carried from Cahors to the Pyrenees- and there they placed it prayerfully on the cross you meet as you climb off the road part of the Route Napoleon. They carried stones from various members of their families to place on the Cruz de Ferro.

But as well as these 'traditional' devotions, L walked with a special purpose: she prayed often for a friend who had terminal cancer. Whenever L found a small, open church (often in France) she would go in and pray for her friend, and if she could, she would also sing a holy song of some kind. (And she had a very beautiful voice.) She especially sought to do this on days that had special significance for her friend, eg her birthday. She carried her friend's 'Catholic' medals, and when she reached Santiago she placed them at the tomb of the saint. This for her was a sacred task indeed.

Walking to Santiago was something my friend was very proud to achieve on her own account- and it was indeed a feat of heroism as she had major knee problems that caused her great pain the longer she walked. But a major purpose for her Camino was that it was an opportunity for her to pray for her friend who was so ill.

Rebekah, the date for your departure with Juli's Mum draws near, and I know many of us will be thinking of you as you walk.
Margaret
 
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KiwiNomad06 said:
Rebekah, the date for your departure with Juli's Mum draws near, and I know many of us will be thinking of you as you walk.
Margaret

Yes Reb, Juli, her family and you will be in prayers here.

For me, it wasn't so much particular spiritual practices as I walked, so much as the walking itself becoming the praying in deeper and deeper ways as the miles went by. There's something Charles Peguy said about prayer on pilgrimage being about the pounding of the feet on the earth.

And, for me, this was complimented in and rooted in saying the Offices (for weights sake I carried a NT and Psalms for this) and Mass when it was available.

I wasn't walking in the intentional way you will be for someone else, although on the way I had news of a couple of people who had died and was asked to pray for them on the pilgrimage. I gave some very hard kilometres for them and spent a lot of time at the Tomb when I arrived.

Go well!

Andy
 
"Give me my scallop-shell of quiet.
My staff of faith to walk upon,
My scrip of joy, immortal diet,
My bottle of Salvation,
My gown of glory (hope's true gage),
And then I'll take my pilgrimage."
- Sir Walter Raleigh

The following is a very old Blessing given to pilgrims about to embark on their pilgrimage.
Blessing of scrip and staff

V. The Lord be with you.
R. And with thy spirit.
Let us pray. O Lord Jesus Christ who of Thy unspeakable mercy at the bidding of the Father and by the Co-operation of the Holy Ghost wast willing to come down from Heaven and to seek the sheep that was lost by the deceit of the devil, and to carry him back on Thy shoulders to the flock of the Heavenly Country; and didst commend the sons of Holy Mother Church by prayer to ask, by holy living to seek, by persevering to knock that so they may the more speedily find the reward of saving life; we humbly call upon Thee that Thou wouldst be pleased to bless these scrips (or this scrip) and these staves (or this staff) that whosoever for the love of Thy name shall desire to wear the same at his side or hang it at his neck or to bear it in his hands and so on his pilgrimage to seek the aid of the Saints with the accompaniment of humble prayer, being protected by the guardianship of Thy Right Hand may be found meet to attain unto the joys of the everlasting vision through Thee, O Saviour of the World, Who livest and reignest in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God for ever and ever. Amen.

Taken from the Sarum Missal (London, 1868, 595-6). These should be compared with Mohammedan formularies (Champagnac, II, 1077-80, etc.):—
(Italics mine)

Chris
 
On Rebekah's blog she says -

"There´s so much more to this Camino than our presumptuous, self-referential, comparative Pilgrim egos can comprehend. It takes years to even start to see the layers. I think we all ought to just shut the hell up and walk . . . . ."

If I tried to say all that I want to on this subject it could be a long post! It will soon be 2 years since my Pilgrimage and I am still unpacking. Like Andy, I carried a small New Testament and Psalms for daily use. My intention was to use one verse of chapter 17 of St. John's Gospel as a daily meditation. In practice, I have to say that my mind tended to 'do its own thing'! Before I got to Oviedo, I realised that I had passed a number of small shrines at the same time each day. I then remembered the old words of the Angelus and made that a prayer for the road. This does not fit in with any of my 'labels' as I would consider myself a 'conservative evangelical' not 'anglo catholic' (note no capitals). It certainly fitted the reading I had set myself from St. John 17 - "that they all may be one . . ."
The following is one of the stazas from the epic which I am still writing

If the modern pilgrim follows
The itinerary and timing of his forbears
He will find that often in his daily march, he
Will arrive at a 'Capilla de Animas' or
A small wayside shrine at twelve noon.
No clocks or watches then,
Only the sun tells when it is midday
The hour of the Angelus.
"The angel of the Lord
"Brought tidings to Mary . . .
"And the Word was made flesh
"And dwelt among us."
The rhythm of the prayer fits well,
The rhythm of the pilgrim's feet upon the road.
But better still to pause;
Be still and remember,
That our incarnate Lord once walked
The roads of Galilee.
And still He walks with us
On this our daily pilgrimage through life.



Blessings on your walking Rebekah and Julia
Terry and Valerie
 

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I found these words in the book "The Spititual Traveler - the Guide to Sacred Sites and Pilgrim Routes in Britain". They headed up various chapters of the book, and I had to read all the fine print in the back of the book to even find out what the poem was called, and it's author. By the way there is more to it - the 4th , 5th, 6th & 7th stages are quoted in the book. Janet

Jay Ramsay “The Sacred Way”

(The first stage of pilgrimage.)
Start here (or anywhere you are): seeing
That to call this journey pilgrimage
Means an echoing in you heart
That changes it

Meaning who you are, too
Suddenly in you innermost unnamed self
That has always called itself you –
Being who you were always meant to be.

(The second stage of pilgrimage.)
And as you go, read the signs
What is gathering around you?
Everything is secretly written on air
To feed, sustain and awaken you:

The journey is itself, and it is you eyes
And something vaster than us is speaking
Through the intricate text of Its Being
Beat by beat and breath by breath

(The third stage of pilgrimage.)
And as the journey grows
Weaving you with your companions,
Why these people? This motley bunch,
Seemingly random, but assured ....... as boundaries soften

Bringing up all you need to see and feel, until
We are all One Body – straggling or smiling
We are messengers for each other, like a medicine
We are stories to be told and heard: a cargo of treasure.
 
Hi Terry and Valerie

Just a simple clarification on my posts.

I only use capitalisation on the words Christian and Catholic for the following reasons.

Christian because it is based on Christ and as such should be capitalised by those who believe Christ is our saviour as i do and not simply another prophet.

Catholic/Catholicism because of its meaning of universality and not any particular branch of Christian faith.

Sorry i didnt make that clear earlier.

God keep us All in faith
Chris
 
Wow, Terry, that is a profound observation. I am always struck by the beautiful wayside shrines along the Way, especially the very ancient "animas" shrines on the Camino Invierno. And you are absolutely spot-on when you notice they come up at about the same time each day.

A beautiful observance I remember from the Italian and Croatian Catholics in my neighborhood where I grew up (Pittsburgh USA) was how they stopped in front of any church we passed and made the sign of the cross -- Jesus was in there, and they paid their respects! The Camino´s got churches and shrines aplenty, and cruceros and monuments. They´re put there to keep the pilgrim mindful of what his pilgrimage is for, and to encourage prayers to particular saints for particular causes. I think they are like the "mindfulness" bells in Buddhist shrines, that bring the monks and nuns back to the present moment periodically through the day.

How delicious that we can be brought back to our purpose with beautiful artwork, bells, music, song, and liturgy. What a gift this path is, and even more so if we make use of all this "spiritual infrastructure!"
 
Get a spanish phone number with Airalo. eSim, so no physical SIM card. Easy to use app to add more funds if needed.
Terry and Reb - yes!

This connects with my experience of passing stone crucifixes when exhausted and being reminded - made mindful again - of why I was walking. There's a photograph and a sentence or two in this blog post:

http://pilgrimpace.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... od-friday/

and Terry - your epic is brewing up well

Andy
 
andy.d said:
........
and Terry - your epic is brewing up well

Andy
My 'epic' is on-line at Pilgrimage to Santiago. There are two more stanzas about to be added, towards the end, and over time there may be others 'along the Way'. I am still contemplating, writing and revising the work!

If any of you quote it anywhere please be kind enough to acknowledge my authorship and copyright.
Thanks,
Terry

[Edit - stanzas added and web address 'tweaked']
 
Rebekah Scott said:
A beautiful observance I remember from the Italian and Croatian Catholics in my neighborhood where I grew up (Pittsburgh USA) was how they stopped in front of any church we passed and made the sign of the cross -- Jesus was in there, and they paid their respects!

Passing St James church on the bus last week at least 8 people, including the bus driver, all blessed ourselves as we passed the church. So, even in post celtic tiger Ireland, the practice is alive and well Rebekah.
 
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
sillydoll said:
A Bike Ride and the Zen Master
A Zen Teacher saw five of his students return from the market, riding their bicycles. When they had dismounted, the teacher asked the students,
"Why are you riding your bicycles?"
The first student replied, "The bicycle is carrying this sack of potatoes. I am glad that I do not have to carry them on my back!"
The teacher praised the student, saying, "You are a smart boy. When you grow old, you will not walk hunched over, as I do."
The second student replied, "I love to watch the trees and fields pass by as I roll down the path."
The teacher commended the student, "Your eyes are open and you see the world."
The third student replied, "When I ride my bicycle, I am content to chant, nam myoho renge kyo."
The teacher gave praise to the third student, "Your mind will roll with the ease of a newly trued wheel."
The fourth student answered, "Riding my bicycle, I live in harmony with all beings."
The teacher was pleased and said, "You are riding on the golden path of non-harming."
The fifth student replied, "I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle."
The teacher went and sat at the feet of the fifth student, and said, "I am your disciple."

Thanks, Sil
 
I read with interest Caminando's post about feeling something powerful on his first Camino that hasn't been duplicated on subsequent pilgrimages. I make my first El Camino this May, so I can't speak to the Camino experience, but it did remind me of when I first went to the cathedral at Chartres, and had this truly amazing, deeply profound spiritual experience walking the labyrinth there. I was totally blindsided by what I felt.

Three years later I returned with my family, anxious to repeat the experience with those I loved. It was a disaster. My husband and I had a terrible fight; instead of the light-filled space I remembered the Cathedral was dark and gloomy, and my children looked around and clearly thought, "What on earth was the big deal?"

As I prepare for my first Camino I certainly hope, indeed anticipate, that something moving and important will happen spiritually. But I am aware that these profound experiences of the divine (or joy or whatever you want to name it) are simply gifts that we have little or nothing to do with except to be open to them when they come along.

So I am trying to pay attention to the wisdom of this poem, one of my favorites, written by St. Francis of Assisi after he returned from a pilgrimage to Rome:

A bird took flight.
and a flower in a field whistled at me
as I passed.
I drank
from a stream of clear water.
And at night the sky untied her hair and I fell asleep
clutching a tress
of God’s.
When I returned from Rome, all said
“Tell us the great news,”
and with great excitement I did: “A flower in a field whistled,
and at night the sky untied her hair and
I fell asleep clutching a sacred tress…”

Buen Camino
 
The problem for many people is high expectations. One should go with none at all.
On the other hand, you sometimes find exactly what you are looking for.
If you are looking for a metaphorical sword (Coehlo) you will find it.
If you are looking for an event in a previous life in Lemuria (Maclaine) you will find it.
'The Camino' is just a long, hard, hiking trail through some beautiful areas and some outer city eyesores. There are historical monuments aplenty and many folkloric legends.
Its all in the interpretation of experience.
I walk the camino because I walk the camino!
 
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
sillydoll said:
If you are looking for a metaphorical sword (Coehlo) you will find it.
If you are looking for an event in a previous life in Lemuria (Maclaine) you will find it.

It is, in my view, a great pity that these two writers ever had anything published on the camino. One is a charlatan, and the other is bonkers.
 
revrenjen said:
I read with interest Caminando's post about feeling something powerful on his first Camino that hasn't been duplicated on subsequent pilgrimages. I make my first El Camino this May, so I can't speak to the Camino experience, but it did remind me of when I first went to the cathedral at Chartres, and had this truly amazing, deeply profound spiritual experience walking the labyrinth there. I was totally blindsided by what I felt.

Three years later I returned with my family, anxious to repeat the experience with those I loved. It was a disaster. My husband and I had a terrible fight; instead of the light-filled space I remembered the Cathedral was dark and gloomy, and my children looked around and clearly thought, "What on earth was the big deal?"

As I prepare for my first Camino I certainly hope, indeed anticipate, that something moving and important will happen spiritually. But I am aware that these profound experiences of the divine (or joy or whatever you want to name it) are simply gifts that we have little or nothing to do with except to be open to them when they come along.

So I am trying to pay attention to the wisdom of this poem, one of my favorites, written by St. Francis of Assisi after he returned from a pilgrimage to Rome:

A bird took flight.
and a flower in a field whistled at me
as I passed.
I drank
from a stream of clear water.
And at night the sky untied her hair and I fell asleep
clutching a tress
of God’s.
When I returned from Rome, all said
“Tell us the great news,”
and with great excitement I did: “A flower in a field whistled,
and at night the sky untied her hair and
I fell asleep clutching a sacred tress…”

Buen Camino


Thanks Rev for this insightful post. It shows clearly that energies (human or otherwise)are not constant and unchanging, but change for reasons we are not always aware of. Your Chartres experiences are powerful events, and perhaps on your Way, you may find some thread of understanding about this time in Chartres. It's without doubt a very remarkable and powerful place
unlike any other I have visited. When I first saw it on a foggy November night it was dark, but those velvety spaces between the points of candle light were full of import, of meaning, of possiblity. Years later, I experienced the inexplicable there, at the centre of the labyrinth.

Your openness to experience, and your talent for reflection will serve you well on your camino, I think. Someone wrote of having no expectations then; by chance, this was my situation the first time, for I had no intention of doing this walk when I set out for a short stage between Le Puy and Conques. I knew almost nothing of the camino.
 
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
servaasgoddijn said:
A beautiful post revrenjen. I count St. Francis now to the great zenmasters of the past.
servaas
Not a zen master at all though. but one of the most important thinkers and DOERS of the Catholic Church. However as with all great spritual insights they are not unique to any one system of faith or philosophy.
The thing with any form of true sprituality - it comes from the same place.
Most belief systems share many of the same ideologies and insights.


Thomas Merton's later writings may appeal to you servaasgoddijn. He was a catholic Trappist monk who really helped catholicism understand eastern mystical philosophies.

"Thomas Merton was perhaps the greatest popularizer of interspirituality. He opened the door for Christians to explore other traditions, notably Taoism (Chinese witchcraft), Hinduism and Buddhism."
[Mystic Heart: Discovering a Universal Spirituality in the World's Religions - Wayne Teasdale]

On his way to Asia, Merton told David Stendl-Rast that "the only way beyond the traps of Catholicism is Buddhism." In other words, every Catholic has to become a good Buddhist, to become as compassionate as possible, he said. "I am going to become the best Buddhist I can, so I can become a good Catholic." That is the wisdom of Merton's contemplative life, to become like Buddhists, people of profound compassion, deep contemplative nonviolence. Note though Merton WAS Catholic - All his research into and understanding of other traditions was so that he could "become a good Catholic."
The lesson i took from Merton was that we can only learn to find harmony,truth and peace is when we learn to find ourselves and to love, and learn from, everyone. That way leads to God. And that is what Merton means by Catholic - the universal truth.

"A life is either all spiritual or not spiritual at all. No man can serve two masters. Your life is shaped by the end you live for. You are made in the image of what you desire."
Thomas Merton

"What can we gain by sailing to the moon if we are not able to cross the abyss that separates us from ourselves? This is the most important of all voyages of discovery, and without it, all the rest are not only useless, but disastrous."
Thomas Merton

God Bless us All
Chris
 
Okay PilgrimChris. I wrote this with a wink. By the way, Thomas Merton is one of my favorite writers, not at least because he made a lot of wise observations with a wink. :D
 
My interest is historical and recreational. Got to say though, I've gained a lot of respect for the religious ones out there. I don't mince my words with what I see to be the negative aspects of many religions, but the pilgrims, they have shown me a level of sincerety and goodwill which is missing from far too many elements of organized faith.
 
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
newfydog said:
. . . . . . . the pilgrims, they have shown me a level of sincerety and goodwill which is missing from far too many elements of organized faith.

That is probably because (speaking for myself and some I met on the way!) those of us walking have realised that it is difficult to find true religion in the 'temples of organized faith'. Note that I did not say 'impossible'! There are many of us Christians doing what we can to live lives for our Master.

The 'other' James (Brother of Jesus) wrote " Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this ; to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world". I found this far easier to do on the Camino!!

blessings
Tio Tel
 
I suspect that there are not too many "Sunday Christians" on the Camino. It is a lot easier to abuse your fellow humans after sitting in a pew than after walking for a month. I may be wrong.
 
Falcon said "It is a lot easier to abuse your fellow humans after sitting in a pew than after walking for a month," Which I would agree with, except I keep meeting people who´ve been walking hundreds of kilometers to where I am (after Sarria) who judge me very harshly because I am walking there without a backpack and with a fresh credential.

Because my clothes are not ragged, and I don´t smell (very) bad, and basically because by walking the Camino so long they feel the Camino is their property. And because I am not more like THEM.

They cannot see how many of THEIR kind of caminos I walked already. They cannot see that the shortest, most "touristic" camino might just be the most spiritually powerful one. If they are so very enlightened by their long walk, maybe they should consider shutting the ---- up.

Mankind judges by appearances. God looks on the heart.
 
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
Rebekah Scott said:
Falcon said "It is a lot easier to abuse your fellow humans after sitting in a pew than after walking for a month," Which I would agree with, except I keep meeting people who´ve been walking hundreds of kilometers to where I am (after Sarria) who judge me very harshly because I am walking there without a backpack and with a fresh credential.

Because my clothes are not ragged, and I don´t smell (very) bad, and basically because by walking the Camino so long they feel the Camino is their property. And because I am not more like THEM.

They cannot see how many of THEIR kind of caminos I walked already. They cannot see that the shortest, most "touristic" camino might just be the most spiritually powerful one. If they are so very enlightened by their long walk, maybe they should consider shutting the ---- up.

Mankind judges by appearances. God looks on the heart.

Yes, the issue of pilgs who judge others has come up regularly, both on the camino and online. You may find your boots being checked to see if theyre dusty enough, or naively "subtle" questions about what you saw during the day, and so on, to check up on you. One response is to torture and tease them, with deadpan, outrageous statements, or observations on your day that dont quite add up. In other words tell them what they want to hear, that they are great and they sussed you out. For these grim people, only their blinkered values matter, and only their camino fundamentalism is valid. These are the people who, in a previous era would have "shown you the instruments" as they judged you. Theyd have cast a critical eye on Christ as he limped to Golgotha, to make sure he was in line with how they thought a condemned man should look. Christians might forgive these people but I wouldnt.

I was once in tacky Lourdes, where a bus load of Irish pilgs was leaving the coach. Many were ill in some way, and the staff was shorthanded so I helped for an hour or so. It was great; quite a number of the people never walked a step but they were bona fide pilgs. I ended up shoving the trolley thing loaded with one big woman, coat still on, handbag clasped on her ample chest, to the "holy" waters for a cure. She blessed me with a stream of comments such as "Oh Jesus! arent you great", and "God has helped me today through a stranger". Now there was a real pilg, and had no rucsac, but only a handbag! She no doubt went home full of many stories of her pilgrimage to Lourdes.

The Stoic Marcus Aurelius in his "Meditations" is great on how to feel when confronted by such people. Something to the effect that each day you know you will meet ingratitude, bad behaviour, stupidity etc, so why get annoyed? And much more besides; I recommend old Marcus very highly.
 
Hmmm, do I dare weigh in?! ;)
I appreciated Rebekah's original post as I experienced a surprisingly secular Camino this past June/July. I was going as a spiritual journey. Raised in the post Vatican II American Catholic church and Jesuit-educated, I was going to try to reconnect with a faith that had been thrown for a loop over the past several years. (sexual abuse crisis/church's stance on women) I found very little overt spirituality on the Camino. Yes, there were the monuments to a faith (churches, shrines, crosses etc...) but relatively little recognition of them. Rarely did I see people crossing themselves as they passed. 90% of the churches were closed. The 8pm vigils at the various albergues were attended by 15% (maybe) of the pilgrims staying in them. (I couldn't even find the mass in St Domingo de la Calzada) In our group, only 3 of the 10 of us sought out moments to pray during the day (ie checked to see if the church was open) the rest would continue walking. I was the only one that attended Mass in Roncevalles; I was the only one that went to confession (required for the indulgence) at the cathedral in Santiago. (I'm not judging- just stating the facts) I will say however, that those opportunities to pray with others were very special. The morning walk out of Astorga saying the rosary in Spanish and English with two new friends was quite special; Vespers with the monks in Rabanal were lovely. Also the prayer for peace at La Faba was another one that I shall long remember- and it was a very ecumenical "celebration", ending with us all singing "He's Got the WHole World in His Hands". The incredible friendships that I forged on the Camino were mostly with "secular" pilgrims and I wouldn't count them any less spiritual than myself. In the end I found that spirituality truly comes from within, and has no inherent boundaries. The walking will create the experience, if you let it. The beauty of the landscape and the melange of humanity that one encounters on the path was a tremendous reinforcement of God's wonders for me.
 
Rebekah Scott said:
where I am (after Sarria)..... God looks on the heart.

Ahh Reb, so you have indeed started already. I thought from your blog that it might be Monday afternoon before you got started. I am glad you have 'checked in'- now I can be thinking of you as you walk. (Though actually in my time zone, I will be mostly thinking of you as you sleep!) Buen Camino to Julia, to you, and to all those supporting you both on the journey. And may the prayers that Juli's Mum prays as she walks, help to ease her devastated heart.
Margaret
 
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
falcon269 said:
I suspect that there are not too many "Sunday Christians" on the Camino. It is a lot easier to abuse your fellow humans after sitting in a pew than after walking for a month. I may be wrong.
Do you speak from personal experience Falcon? Have you been abused by someone after sitting in a pew? Or indeed did you mean you found it easier to abuse someone after sitting in a pew yourself?
I only ask as i wouldnt want anyone to get the impression your just making a generalization about the billion or more cross denominational 'pew sitters' without any personal or statistical evidence to qualify your statemant :)

The following are general thoughts i am just sharing with anyone who is interested lol.

I have found that people who profess a faith or none can be equally 'abusive' of their fellow humans whether it be by belittling anothers belief system (religous or secular) or through racism (indeed through any of the 'isms' we all profess to abhor). From class differences to intolerance of anyone who doesnt conform to 'my' way of thinking.

I have also found the opposite to be equally true. My best friend finds he cannot believe in any god yet is a more generous and tolerant person than i could only pray to be!

The problem with generalization of any kind is that we who do it at best show our ignorance and at worst start to sit in judgement of others.

As a wise lady said "Mankind judges by appearances. God looks on the heart."
As no-one can see into the heart of another, whether one believes in God or not, i humbly suggest none of us can judge anyone. Unless of course we are without any sin/wrong-doing - call it what you will - ourselves. :)

Whether you sit in a pew or walk a Camino, whether you become a hermit or sit on a pole for 40 years, whether you meditate, contemplate or chant or even just live a 'regular' life - nothing will help bring about any 'enlightenment', 'spiritual awareness', 'personal revelation' or any of the myriad of things we might seek or hope to experience unless we are prepared to look at ourselves and see the crap within ourselves and want to change it for something better.

Whether one believes that only with Gods help we can find a better way to behave towards our fellow humans or whether one believes we can do so alone we still must have the WILL to do so.

LIFE is the Camino not a few miles walk in Spain or on any of the hundreds of other worldwide pilgrimage routes. The pew is the seat your sitting in when you face a fellow human being not just those seats in religous houses one sits in looking at the back of someones head.

But what a dedicated camino does and what sitting in a formal pew does is to focus our hearts more intensely on what we should be doing and experiencing in our daily lives. And that is good.

It isnt about failure or success, about finding a life changing experience etc etc. It is about trying each day to live a little better in harmony and love with our fellow humans, all the creatures we share this wonderful earth with and the earth itself.

And as caveats are usually required so as not to cause anyone any offense ( :) ) please note as mentioned above these are just MY thoughts i humbly share.

May God bless All of us.
Chris
 
servaasgoddijn said:
A beautiful post revrenjen. I count St. Francis now to the great zenmasters of the past.
servaas
servaasgoddijn said:
I wrote this with a wink
Sorry servaasgoddijn but try as i might i cannot see a wink :)
And i am not sure what a wink would indicate. Does it mean your statement was made tongue in cheek? I only ask because as you have read Thomas Merton extensively you will know that when it came to his expanding faith nothing was tongue in cheek or suffixed with a wink. He did have a great sense of humour though when it came to people interprating his beliefs and writings incorrectly :)
And if i have done the same with your posts i hope you will have the same generous humour to forgive me :wink:

Chris
 
Do you speak from personal experience Falcon? Have you been abused by someone after sitting in a pew?
It's true. The guy just got up out of the pew and began to abuse me. Perceptive of you.
 
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
falcon269 said:
It's true. The guy just got up out of the pew and began to abuse me. Perceptive of you.
I am sorry to hear that Falcon. It does go someway in helping to understand explain your statement -
falcon269 said:
It is a lot easier to abuse your fellow humans after sitting in a pew
I hope you won't hold your personal experience against the rest of your fellow man especially those of a faith different to your own.

As for my perceptiveness or otherwise - well it was the reason i asked for clarification falcon. I couldn't perceive what the reason was for your comment "It is a lot easier to abuse your fellow humans after sitting in a pew than after walking for a month". Now i know and thank you for sharing such an obviously harrowing experience. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive the guy who abused you.

You are in my prayers and although that may be of small comfort to you after your distressing experience of a certain misguided person of professed faith i truly hope you will accept my sincere good wishes.

Chris
 
Rebekah Scott said:
Mankind judges by appearances. God looks on the heart.

The Bible is like Shakespeare, we can quote it daily without thinking! The quote by Rebekah is from the First Book of Samuel, chapter 16 and verse 7. It was said by God to Samuel as he looked at the brother of the future King David. Not this one, even though he is big and handsome. God's choice was an insignificant shepherd lad . . . .
A spiritual journey begins where we are at the time. Smelly from the sheep folds, hands covered in grease or worse. It is the heart that counts.

Blessings on your walking
Terry
 
The recent posts on self-righteous, judgmental pilgrims reminds me of some important wisdom from Celtic Christianity. Celtic Christianity valued pilgrimage as a spiritual exercise. Indeed, there were monks who became "peregrinati" which meant more or less permanent pilgrims who felt called to be "hospites mundi" or guests of the world (I LOVE that phrase). But as much as Celtic Christians valued pilgrimage, they taught that:

To go to Rome
is much of trouble, little of profit;
The King whom thou seekest there,
Unless thou bring him with thee, thou wilt not find.

Blessings--
Rene
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
revrenjen said:
The recent posts on self-righteous, judgmental pilgrims reminds me of some important wisdom from Celtic Christianity. Celtic Christianity valued pilgrimage as a spiritual exercise. Indeed, there were monks who became "peregrinati" which meant more or less permanent pilgrims who felt called to be "hospites mundi" or guests of the world (I LOVE that phrase). But as much as Celtic Christians valued pilgrimage, they taught that:

To go to Rome
is much of trouble, little of profit;
The King whom thou seekest there,
Unless thou bring him with thee, thou wilt not find.

Blessings--
Rene

Yes Rev, and the Church despised these gyrovagi, and worked hard to eliminate them.
 
Caminando, and a bit late. You wrote:

...on second thoughts, Pr., you've made a total misreading and misunderstanding of my post. I think you had a fixed idea and couldn't see past it.

On my own second thoughts, I think you are absolutely right!

It's such a personal thing, isn't it: "The Camino"? I have often asked myself why normal, ordinary, "sane" people with no previous history of doing something as insane as travelling 800 klms (or 100 or 1000) on foot, horseback, bicycle etc., etc. would do something as archaic as going on "Pilgrimage" in this day and age? I tried to explore that in Pilgrimage to Heresy (as Chris points out) and in the doing perhaps went on another type of pilgrimage in the writing of fiction joined up with what was a very personal experience as my main character explores many of my own doubts about what we can salvage out of this oh-so-very materialistic world we live in.

And that in the end was the blessing: the very simplicity of it all.

On subsequent Caminos, either on foot (three times) or even in my car as last year's "Retrospective" (I had two broken ribs and couldn't walk to Muxía as I had hoped), I have come down the hill into Marbella - from the "real Spain" to the very much unreal at times - and actually felt myself reluctant to take up my life, with all the "stuff" that entails.

And I love my life!

I am so glad that not only did Rebekah start this thread, but that so many very philosophical replies have been posted.

¡Viva el Camino! (Now, which one next year...?)

http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.blogspot.com
 
Can Santiago as a destination be replaced???? Here is a "first of its kind in the United States."

Amid a patchwork of Wisconsin farmland half an hour's drive northeast of Green Bay is a modest shrine with a brick chapel, a school and a flow of pilgrims speaking of profound healing power.

The power is said to come from the Virgin Mary, who appeared to a Belgian immigrant 151 years ago where the shrine now stands. But all believers had to show for it were years of anecdotes — and the canes, wheelchairs and crutches left behind in the chapel's crypt by those who claimed they had been healed.

Now, the Roman Catholic Church has issued a decree: The apparition in 1859 was authentic.

Or as the Most Rev. David Laurin Ricken, bishop of the Diocese of Green Bay, said last week, the Shrine of Our Lady of Good Help is "worthy of belief."

With the bishop's approval, the landmark known mostly by locals has been elevated to the level of Marian apparitions in Mexico City, Fatima in Portugal, and Lourdes in France.

It is the first of its kind in the United States.

"This is an affirmation of the spiritual fruits the people of God have received for 151 years," Father John Doefler, the shrine's rector and the vicar general and chancellor of the diocese, said of the bishop's decree. "It opens the door for future spiritual growth."

The process to verify the apparition began in January 2009, when Ricken began an investigation. The diocese commissioned theologians to pore over the journals of the young woman who claimed to have been visited by Mary, as well as other records and accounts.

The researchers examined the woman's character and psychological health, and found that reported occurrences at the shrine, such as the healings, were in line with the teachings of the church.

Church declarations of Marian apparitions are a rarity, said Father Thomas Rausch, a professor of theology at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles. With so many sightings reported — including some that may be happenstance, like Mary's face on a tortilla — the church handles such decisions carefully.

"Most Catholics are skeptical," he said, "so the church is reluctant."

There are only about a dozen church-confirmed Marian apparitions worldwide. In one case, a vision in Akita, Japan, was certified in 1988 by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, when he oversaw the Vatican office charged with preserving church doctrine.

Yet since 1900 alone, hundreds of sightings have been reported. In most cases, the church has not decided whether they are worthy of belief, according to the International Marian Research Institute at the University of Dayton in Ohio.

The church has resisted offering such decrees in recent years. The Bosnia-Herzegovina village of Medjugorje, where several young people claim to have seen the Virgin Mary multiple times since 1981, has drawn masses of pilgrims over the years. Still, the church has fended off calls to certify the apparition.

In Wisconsin, though, the bishop's decree means "the evidence of this is worthy of belief, but we can't be absolutely sure," Rausch said. Ricken must have "good evidence, or else he wouldn't make this declaration," he said.

In what is now just outside the small town of Champion, the church says, Adele Brise, a 28-year-old Belgian immigrant who had lost an eye in a childhood accident, was visited three times in October 1859 by the vision of a woman in white. In the third vision, as Brise carried grain to a mill, the woman identified herself as Mary.

The church said the vision hovered above the ground, cast in a bright light, and offered a mission to Brise: "I am the queen of heaven who prays for the conversion of sinners, and I wish you to do the same. You received the Holy Communion this morning and that is well. But you must do more."

The church said the Virgin Mary instructed Brise to spread Catholicism and pray for strengthening the faith of believers. After the command, Brise became a nun and helped to build a church in that space, along with a school.

The chapel and school still stand, which in itself could be considered miraculous. One of the largest recorded forest fires in history, the Peshtigo fire of 1871, raged through Wisconsin and Michigan, coincidentally at the same time as the Great Chicago Fire. Brise gathered a group at the shrine, and they prayed to Our Lady of Good Help for protection, the church said.

The fire burned through the fields and forests around them, but the blaze stopped as it reached the perimeter of the shrine.

Brise died in July 1896, and was buried near the chapel.

Bishop Ricken said the moral fiber Brise demonstrated throughout her life was the leading factor in his decision. "There is nothing in the person and character of Adele Brise that would question the veracity of the substance of her account," he said in the decree.

The shrine has built a reputation as a sacred place, attracting the sick and the troubled with prayers. Doefler said there were seemingly endless stories of terminal ailments disappearing and longstanding feuds and family struggles evaporating.

Its healing powers are what Michael Lee and his family believe cured his brother of a brain tumor more than 50 years ago. The boy couldn't walk because the tumor had taken away his balance.

Lee's parents drove to the Shrine of Our Lady of Good Help and, for nine days, walked on their knees around the altar of the shrine, petitioning for their son's tumor to heal.

A few days after their return, Lee said, his brother's balance returned. He could walk again.

His doctor was dumbfounded by what medical tests revealed: The tumor was gone. Lee said the doctor wrote to the bishop at the time, calling the recovery "medically unexplainable."

Lee, 58, who works as a lay minister at a parish in Green Bay, said the simple shrine held significance to his family.

"It was always there in the back of our mind, that if anything serious or important came up, that was a resource," Lee said. "It gives you this deep sense of hope. Even if the physical thing you came there wanting healed isn't. There is this feeling that there is something greater than us that gives, cares and loves."

rick.rojas@latimes.com
 
€2,-/day will present your project to thousands of visitors each day. All interested in the Camino de Santiago.
The door is open to all, to sick and healthy,
not only to Catholics but also to pagans,
Jews, heretics and vagabonds.

These lines are taken from a thirteenth century Latin poem in praise of the Monastery of Roncesvalles.
 
William Marques said:
The door is open to all, to sick and healthy,
not only to Catholics but also to pagans,
Jews, heretics and vagabonds.

That is why I do not think that there was a door on the 'stable' at Bethlehem. Otherwise the shepherds (= ruffians from the hills) would have been shut out!

Blessings for Christmas
Terry
 
This extract from the Confraternity's Spiritual Companion seems apt here:

"Within days of starting our pilgrimages we met people of all ages from many different countries. We also found: some had prepared, some hadn’t; some carried huge rucksacks, some almost nothing, on their backs; some were shy, some outgoing; some believed in God, some didn’t; some were happy, some sad; some had changed their lives, others liked life as it was. We met people who had lost partners, and couples walking with their children; some who had experienced broken hearts, and many who were falling in love with life.

We all walked the same road and when we got to Santiago Cathedral there was a place for each of us. Every one."
 
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
Priscillian said:
Caminando, and a bit late. You wrote:

...on second thoughts, Pr., you've made a total misreading and misunderstanding of my post. I think you had a fixed idea and couldn't see past it.

On my own second thoughts, I think you are absolutely right!

It's such a personal thing, isn't it: "The Camino"? I have often asked myself why normal, ordinary, "sane" people with no previous history of doing something as insane as travelling 800 klms (or 100 or 1000) on foot, horseback, bicycle etc., etc. would do something as archaic as going on "Pilgrimage" in this day and age? I tried to explore that in Pilgrimage to Heresy (as Chris points out) and in the doing perhaps went on another type of pilgrimage in the writing of fiction joined up with what was a very personal experience as my main character explores many of my own doubts about what we can salvage out of this oh-so-very materialistic world we live in.

And that in the end was the blessing: the very simplicity of it all.

On subsequent Caminos, either on foot (three times) or even in my car as last year's "Retrospective" (I had two broken ribs and couldn't walk to Muxía as I had hoped), I have come down the hill into Marbella - from the "real Spain" to the very much unreal at times - and actually felt myself reluctant to take up my life, with all the "stuff" that entails.

And I love my life!

I am so glad that not only did Rebekah start this thread, but that so many very philosophical replies have been posted.

¡Viva el Camino! (Now, which one next year...?)

http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.blogspot.com

Hi Pr.,
On "second thoughts", both yours and mine - no worries, that's fine!

I'm glad you enjoyed the replies, though I must confess I was a little disappointed overall; with some notable exceptions, of course. I wasnt fond of my own response, for it was inadequate.
 
I am back from my little Camino, and it was very fine indeed.

We traveled it for a purpose, and used the resources that are literally built-into the pathway: the monasteries, churches, Masses, cruceiros, shrines, and memorial stones. I used a rosary, and a couple of other printed devotional titles including the fine CSJ guide Johnnie Walker mentioned. We didn´t do anything overtly "Christian" besides pray and attend church services, and observe private devotions at bedtime and upon rising.

It was extraordinary. I felt like I was slotted into a finely-wrought structure that´s been planed and tuned over centuries to make exactly this kind of traveling worship a workable reality. (I had the backing of several friends at home, who prayed while we walked as well.)

I´ve been a believer for many years, I have studied religions and belief and written about them for my living, but I have never experienced such a holistic kind of faith experience in all my days. I feel like we really achieved something important -- it was not just a "worship experience" or a "faith encounter." It was truly "walking in the spirit." For DAYS!

Our arrival at the cathedral was a joyous setting-free of a great burden. We still have a lot of work to do, grief-wise. But this camino is a time-tested tonic for Christians in need of spiritual comfort and support. It´s engineered for the job. It´s WAY more than could have imagined.
 
I felt like I was slotted into a finely-wrought structure that´s been planed and tuned over centuries to make exactly this kind of traveling worship a workable reality

Ah, Reb. Once again you have succinctly described why the Camino is different from other long distance trails.
Although one can have a spiritual journey on the beach, in the bush, in the mountains or the woods, the monuments, churches, crosses, shrines, traditions, hospitality and spiritual succor on the Camino has been described as a string of rosary beads leading to the tomb of the saint.
 

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Rebekah Scott said:
it was not just a "worship experience" or a "faith encounter." It was truly "walking in the spirit." For DAYS!
Our arrival at the cathedral was a joyous setting-free of a great burden. We still have a lot of work to do, grief-wise. But this camino is a time-tested tonic for Christians in need of spiritual comfort and support. It´s engineered for the job. It´s WAY more than could have imagined.
Rebekah, I am pleased that your pilgrimage was so special!I have described mine as "a month of Quiet Time". Our prayers continue to be with you and your friends as you carry on with working through your grief.
On a practical side, many people find that this takes at least a year. Once all the anniversaries, birthdays and festivals (including, and not least, Navidad) have been experienced without the loved one, then we can begin to see that there is a way forward.

With our Blessings to you and yours
Terry and Valerie
 
Rebekah Scott said:
If you are a Pilgrim of Faith, how is your pilgrimage different from anyone else´s?
I don't know if my Camino was any different from that of others, but walking the Camino was one of the most wonderful things I have ever done.
However, as a “Pilgrim of Faith”, one of the things I found was that I wasn't much more a “Pilgrim of Faith” during the Camino than I was at home.
I found the Camino captured life’s journey in a way which seemed to eliminate many of assorted past times and things that saturate my normal daily existence.
For example:
When I "raced" other pilgrims to get the best accommodation - that was probably just how I acted many times during the natural course of daily living, but didn’t see it in the business of life.
When I had unkind thoughts about others along the way, it was because I could also be judgemental of others home, of course with many justifiably good reasons. (lol)
When I got angry....
When I was negative....
When I was selfish....
Etc, Etc, Etc, ...
However, the Camino was so wonderful for so many, many reasons.
The people, the friendships, the experiences, the uncertainty, the culture, the adventure, the Café con leche, the Pulpo a la Gallega, the arrival at Santiago de Compostela.
But to me the greatest value was its ability to strip away many of the things that just swamp my life, and to see a little better, what I was really like as a “Pilgrim of Faith”, Sunday to Monday.
And I can’t wait to do it again. Next time, I will try to be more faithful, more gracious, more kind, and more relaxed.
However, I suspect many pilgrims, of no religious persuasion, also get similar insight and benefit from their Camino.
Col
 

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