Trudy wrote:Spain never underwent the Reformation t
Johnnie Walker wrotef its democtratic internal structures including the vital fact that there is no Pope with all of the powers invested in that office in the Roman Catholic tradition.
A discussion for another time and place...maybe the party in SDC in May.
JohnnieWalker said:Discussing the facts about church structures ain't my idea of a party!
Up to a point, yes, William. But there are huge differences too. I went to school in Spain in the 1960s. We had a uniformed army officer teaching us history, a portrait of the Generalissimo above the teacher's desk, and the church was seen to be part of the whole dismal thing. If young people in a young democracy have gone off the Catholic Church it is partly through their ignorance of the Church and partly because the Church has still not recognized the need to recover lost ground and rebuild trust. The old attitudes are still there. As a Catholic I sometimes find the Spanish church embarrassingly out of touch and at times quite offensive and I have this argument frequently with Spanish priests and religious brothers! Unlike Arn, however, I don't think it would be a very clever topic for a party! 8)William Marques said:In this way it is similar to England nominally Anglican but a country where only a minority of Anglicans attend chuch.
oursonpolaire said:If you're walking the Cami de San Jaume, you could drop into the very snakebelly Church of England chaplaincy in Barcelona
'seen to be'? - it was part of it! And the cult of Santiago, the national saint, was part of it too. Fortunately for those who don't like 'the whole dismal thing', Spain has moved on considerably from when you were at school.Gareth Thomas said:Up to a point, yes, William. But there are huge differences too. I went to school in Spain in the 1960s. We had a uniformed army officer teaching us history, a portrait of the Generalissimo above the teacher's desk, and the church was seen to be part of the whole dismal thing.
don't think it's anything to do with ignorance. For many who support the changes in Spain over the last 30 years, and not just the young, the Church is increasingly irrelevant to everyday life, which is why it's losing influence. The Spanish Church remains more important to the average Spaniard than the CoE is to the average English person, but for me the trend in Spain is unmistakable.Gareth Thomas said:If young people in a young democracy have gone off the Catholic Church it is partly through their ignorance of the Church and partly because the Church has still not recognized the need to recover lost ground and rebuild trust. The old attitudes are still there.
JohnnieWalker said:the decline is obvious
vinotinto said:Bottom line, Catholicism in Spain appears to be more of an aspect of culture
Gareth wrote:a better subject for party conversation in Santiago is still the seafood!
Arn said:pass the cerveza, por favor
Yes that is very very true but I am half Jewish former Anglican Locally authorized preacher and I can remember bringing 2 curious Jewish people to my incumbent’s service of Evening Prayer. I warned him in advance hoping that he would make his sermon at least interesting.Peter
I agree with all you say on this. Whilst many churches are still pretty busy compared to the UK the decline is obvious. Speaking to young people their rejection of the Catholic church is more than a general "I don't believe and its all nonsense" it is a fundamental questioning of its role in a modern democratic Spain. Imho that is all to the good. But whilst there is ready scorn for matters ecclesiastical there is still an intriguing interest as you say in making pilgrimage and Spaniards still make up half the numbers...perhaps it was ever thus. What I find disappointing is that whilst people in general are welcoming, with the exception some notable pilgrim friendly priests along the way other parish priests simply make no effort to welcome or reach out to pilgrims.
John
I absolutely agree with you Gareth it is a Catholic road and my in laws who are ‘practising Catholics’ feel very strongly about ‘Santiago Apóstol ‘ and the Cathedral.OK, that's one bottom line... But, as with everything, there are several possible bottom lines. The relics of St James are what brought into being this particular Catholic tradition, and while there are many people walking, cycling and riding the Camino for a whole range of motives, the pilgrim's attitude to what lies in that reliquary at the end of the road determines whether this is pilgrimage or an enjoyable walk in the sun.
There are many variations. Yes, of course. There are also changes of motivation on the road and that's wonderful: pilgrimage is about conversion! Perhaps it's unfashionable to notice the fact, but it's a Catholic road, and that's my bottom line!
On the other hand... a better subject for party conversation in Santiago is still the seafood!
Gareth
Hi Vera Jane ,I absolutely agree with you Gareth it is a Catholic road and my in laws who are ‘practising Catholics’ feel very strongly about ‘Santiago Apóstol ‘ and the Cathedral.
I should have added to the earlier post that the Anglicanos referred to is the Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church which is a member of the world wide Anglican Communion - being Anglican is nothing to do with English people attending and the church is genuinely Spanish with ancient roots and is not English speaking. It is a reformed or protestant church and is part of the the Anglican tradition because of its democtratic internal structures including the vital fact that there is no Pope with all of the powers invested in that office in the Roman Catholic tradition.