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In Ivar's weekly bulletin of July 21, 2018, "Last Week's Most Popular Topics", I was intrigued by the topic
"Newbie question: Camino Frances vs Camino del Norte
Thread starter: sugargypsy, Start date Jul 15, 2018".
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...ion-camino-frances-vs-camino-del-norte.56719/
I myself have done the southern caminos 6 time, and am going to start my first Camino del Norte this coming August 21st. While preparing for it, I have purchased and read the three books commonly available now, as well as whatever I could find about it on the internet. The result so far has been a very negative view which I have formed of this trek, which is presented as "a pilgrimage road." It was so negative, that I was on the verge of cancelling my trip altogether. So I started reading the responses of experienced walkers who have already done both Caminos, to discover whether any of them might be of a similar mind to mine. These are two of the responses I have found:
Camino Chris Jul 15, 2018
"I'm glad I walked the Frances first, for its uniqueness, and a more "pilgrimage" spiritual feeling. I thought much of the terrain lovely. … The Norte is more difficult, but offers many beautiful views as a reward. It definitely has the feeling more of a hike."
trecile Jul 15, 2018
"I've walked the Frances twice, and am currently on the Norte. It is much more difficult, and I'm not sure that I would have developed my Camino addiction if I walked it first. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful, and I'm enjoying it, but the Camino spirit doesn't seem as strong on this Camino. One indicator is that I see very few shells on backpacks here. I actually forgot to bring mine, and haven't seen any place to buy one. I think that's because so many of the little villages on the Frances survive almost solely because of the Camino, therefore it seems like there is a greater focus on the pilgrims."
My impressions, admittedly "sight unseen", are very much like the ones quoted above.
In none of my books is there any true treatment of this trek as a holy pilgrimage road dedicated to Santiago Apostol. For example, the "Village to Village Map Guide: Camino del Norte" has these few words to say about it:
"The Camino del Norte has rich historical significance as one of the oldest Caminos, reaching its zenith in the 9th and 10th century as the Muslim conquest of Spain was gaining ground northward, making the Frances too dangerous. The far north remained under Christian control, and the kingdom of Asturias, led by Alfonso II, remained one of the last bastions of control with its capital in Oviedo having its own famous relics of San Salvador. Pilgrims from all over Europe arrived by ship to the coast and made their way to Santiago without having to cross any major mountains. After the Reconquest of Spain in the llth century, the Frances boomed in popularity as Oviedo's influence waned and the royal court shifted to Leon."
As soon as they have done paying this lip-service to the sacred history of the route, the writers go on to discuss what, in their eyes, seem to be the main concerns of the walkers today: the services provided.
"Today the route is reasonably well marked, and the number and quality of pilgrim services continues to increase. There remain towns and stages with inadequate albergue beds to match demand in the higher seasons, but pensiones and hotels have stepped in to offer pilgrim rates. Coastal sections of the trail pass through touristy beach towns where private lodging can be pricy and full in high tourism season (July/August); many youth hostels cater more to surfers than to pilgrims. Because the Norte has many fewer pilgrims, the route also has had fewer improvements and utilizes paved surfaces more than the Frances (around 69% of the route). The upside of fewer walkers means more solitude and less overcrowding."
And indeed, in all three books that I have, the main topics are lodgings, food (the best pitnxos restaurants) and beeches to relax or surf on. Never a mention of Santiago or places dedicated to his worship. It is as if, as soon as the pilgrimage focus switched from the North to the Camino Frances in the 11th century, the saint's memory was forgotten there.
Forum member trecile explains: " I think that's because so many of the little villages on the Frances survive almost solely because of the Camino, therefore it seems like there is a greater focus on the pilgrims." I would add, that those villages do not only survive thanks to the Camino pilgrims, but were actually founded way back then in response to the needs of those people, providing shelter and sustenance, building churches to cater to their spiritual needs and hospitals to take care of the sick.
This was not the case in the North. As you go reading from book to book and from place to place, you realize that these were (and still are) places that were originally established as fishing posts, having nothing to do with the Camino or with Santiago. Some of them have developed into thriving cities, others have remained fishing posts and others have found a lucrative source of income by catering to vacationing tourists and to the hordes of surfers who visit the famous beaches every surfing season. No-one really gives a hoot about the few people who deem themselves "pilgrims".
In a desperate attempt to prove to myself that I would not be some gullible idiot who would be walking this commercial route out of the misconception that he was on a true Santiago pilgrimage, I decided to conduct a search in my sources for places that are still dedicated to Santiago, or somehow bear a relic of their function as pilgrimage accessories.
The only source I found to be of any help was an obscure publication which I found on the internet in PDF format. It is downloadable for free at https://tourism.euskadi.eus/conteni.../2017/GUIA2017-LOSCAMINOSDELNORTE-ING-WEB.pdf (for the 2017 edition. I had the 2011 one)
It happens to having been mentioned on this forum back in 2012: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...es-for-the-northern-routes-to-santiago.12841/
The booklet I consulted was:
"The Northern Ways to Santiago
Northern Way, Primitive Way, Inland Way, Baztanés Way, Lebaniego Way"
- 2nd edition: August 2011
- Published by: Basque Government, Government of Cantabria, Government of the Principality of Asturias,
Regional Government of Galicia, Government of Navarre, Government of La Rioja.
It is delightful and instructive to read, because it does not bother about albergues and restaurants, but does its best to treat the Camino del Norte as a pilgrimage road and to show the affinity of some of its places to the worship of Santiago. I found 12 such places by searching for the word "Santiago" and I shall freely quote them.
1. The start of the Northern Way could not be more laden with symbolism: it sets off at the Santiago bridge (at Irun) crossing the River Bidasoa.
2. Hondarribia (old Irun): Leaving its old quarter, you will see the odd hint at the pilgrims’ Way: the 15th century Chapel of Santiagotxo (Ermita de Santiago), dedicated to Saint James the Apostle.
3. Zarautz: It is the Church of Santa María la Real that has most association with the Way to Santiago, being home to the sepulchre of an anonymous pilgrim who asked to be buried in this church in the 16th century.
4. Zumaia: The Santiago beach welcomes us.
5. There are few beginnings as stimulating as the departure from Markina-Xemein. Firstly, the idyllic village of Bolibar and later, a religious monument that is one of its kind in Biscay: The Collegiate Church of Cenarruza or Ziortza (14c) is located roughly two kilometers from the urban nucleus. It was an important enclave in the Route of Santiago de Compostela, and its influence extended beyond the comarca and surpassed the religious scope.
6. Munitibar-Arbatzegi: The Chapel of Santiago situated at the heights of the Aldaka district, is another reference to the Way of Saint James.
7. The Cathedral of Bilbao, dedicated to Saint James the Apostle and with its particular Pilgrims’ Gate for those on the Way to Santiago, is the finest example of the extent to which the pilgrims’ way has seeped into the city.
8. The most important temple of the small town of Santiago de Cudeyo is the Church of Santiago. It is a small church of a single nave with attached sacristy whose exterior highlights its belfry with two bodies (on the west side). A building in whose construction Late Gothic, Renaissance and Baroque elements were used.
The church has two access points. The oldest is the door with a simple semicircular arch located on the facade that faces the road. The most recent one is the one on the north façade, the one under the colorful belfry. It was opened in the eighteenth century and has a flat vain.
If you want to see its main altarpiece of baroque style made during the first half of the eighteenth century you will have to go in prayer time because the temple is not open specifically for visits. The doubled Solomonic columns and the image of Santiago Matamoros that frames a three-lobed vain will probably draw your attention.
(https://www.minube.com/rincon/iglesia-de-santiago-a2203419 )
9. San Vicente de la Barquera: One of these gates (from 1210 city wall), opening south, is the Pilgrims’ Gate, recalling the walkers’ passage through here on their way to Santiago. Other testimonies were the hospital that was built in the 15th century next to the church, and the sculpture of Saint James that has been conserved in its interior.
10. Llanes (13c): It was well known as a stop along the route to Santiago, as evinced by the hospital that existed outside the city walls, of which only the chapel has survived. It has a rich heritage. In the Romanesque-Gothic Church of Santa María, the main portal has archivolts decorated with figures of Saint James and a series of pilgrims.
11. One of the traditional roads between Ribadesella/Ribeseya and Villaviciosa passed by the Church of Santiago at Gobiendes and in fact stopped at Gobiendes.
12. On the route to Gijon we will go through villages like Pion, with its Parish Church of Santiago, and Deva, with remains of a pre-Romanesque temple.
Since I am going to turn to the Camino Primitivo and end my trip at Oviedo, which is of great historical and cultural interest to me, I stopped my search here.
My findings, meager as they are, have somewhat improved my attitude, but I do not believe will induce me to hike this route another time, unless it proves to be really fabulous.
"Newbie question: Camino Frances vs Camino del Norte
Thread starter: sugargypsy, Start date Jul 15, 2018".
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...ion-camino-frances-vs-camino-del-norte.56719/
I myself have done the southern caminos 6 time, and am going to start my first Camino del Norte this coming August 21st. While preparing for it, I have purchased and read the three books commonly available now, as well as whatever I could find about it on the internet. The result so far has been a very negative view which I have formed of this trek, which is presented as "a pilgrimage road." It was so negative, that I was on the verge of cancelling my trip altogether. So I started reading the responses of experienced walkers who have already done both Caminos, to discover whether any of them might be of a similar mind to mine. These are two of the responses I have found:
Camino Chris Jul 15, 2018
"I'm glad I walked the Frances first, for its uniqueness, and a more "pilgrimage" spiritual feeling. I thought much of the terrain lovely. … The Norte is more difficult, but offers many beautiful views as a reward. It definitely has the feeling more of a hike."
trecile Jul 15, 2018
"I've walked the Frances twice, and am currently on the Norte. It is much more difficult, and I'm not sure that I would have developed my Camino addiction if I walked it first. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful, and I'm enjoying it, but the Camino spirit doesn't seem as strong on this Camino. One indicator is that I see very few shells on backpacks here. I actually forgot to bring mine, and haven't seen any place to buy one. I think that's because so many of the little villages on the Frances survive almost solely because of the Camino, therefore it seems like there is a greater focus on the pilgrims."
My impressions, admittedly "sight unseen", are very much like the ones quoted above.
In none of my books is there any true treatment of this trek as a holy pilgrimage road dedicated to Santiago Apostol. For example, the "Village to Village Map Guide: Camino del Norte" has these few words to say about it:
"The Camino del Norte has rich historical significance as one of the oldest Caminos, reaching its zenith in the 9th and 10th century as the Muslim conquest of Spain was gaining ground northward, making the Frances too dangerous. The far north remained under Christian control, and the kingdom of Asturias, led by Alfonso II, remained one of the last bastions of control with its capital in Oviedo having its own famous relics of San Salvador. Pilgrims from all over Europe arrived by ship to the coast and made their way to Santiago without having to cross any major mountains. After the Reconquest of Spain in the llth century, the Frances boomed in popularity as Oviedo's influence waned and the royal court shifted to Leon."
As soon as they have done paying this lip-service to the sacred history of the route, the writers go on to discuss what, in their eyes, seem to be the main concerns of the walkers today: the services provided.
"Today the route is reasonably well marked, and the number and quality of pilgrim services continues to increase. There remain towns and stages with inadequate albergue beds to match demand in the higher seasons, but pensiones and hotels have stepped in to offer pilgrim rates. Coastal sections of the trail pass through touristy beach towns where private lodging can be pricy and full in high tourism season (July/August); many youth hostels cater more to surfers than to pilgrims. Because the Norte has many fewer pilgrims, the route also has had fewer improvements and utilizes paved surfaces more than the Frances (around 69% of the route). The upside of fewer walkers means more solitude and less overcrowding."
And indeed, in all three books that I have, the main topics are lodgings, food (the best pitnxos restaurants) and beeches to relax or surf on. Never a mention of Santiago or places dedicated to his worship. It is as if, as soon as the pilgrimage focus switched from the North to the Camino Frances in the 11th century, the saint's memory was forgotten there.
Forum member trecile explains: " I think that's because so many of the little villages on the Frances survive almost solely because of the Camino, therefore it seems like there is a greater focus on the pilgrims." I would add, that those villages do not only survive thanks to the Camino pilgrims, but were actually founded way back then in response to the needs of those people, providing shelter and sustenance, building churches to cater to their spiritual needs and hospitals to take care of the sick.
This was not the case in the North. As you go reading from book to book and from place to place, you realize that these were (and still are) places that were originally established as fishing posts, having nothing to do with the Camino or with Santiago. Some of them have developed into thriving cities, others have remained fishing posts and others have found a lucrative source of income by catering to vacationing tourists and to the hordes of surfers who visit the famous beaches every surfing season. No-one really gives a hoot about the few people who deem themselves "pilgrims".
In a desperate attempt to prove to myself that I would not be some gullible idiot who would be walking this commercial route out of the misconception that he was on a true Santiago pilgrimage, I decided to conduct a search in my sources for places that are still dedicated to Santiago, or somehow bear a relic of their function as pilgrimage accessories.
The only source I found to be of any help was an obscure publication which I found on the internet in PDF format. It is downloadable for free at https://tourism.euskadi.eus/conteni.../2017/GUIA2017-LOSCAMINOSDELNORTE-ING-WEB.pdf (for the 2017 edition. I had the 2011 one)
It happens to having been mentioned on this forum back in 2012: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...es-for-the-northern-routes-to-santiago.12841/
The booklet I consulted was:
"The Northern Ways to Santiago
Northern Way, Primitive Way, Inland Way, Baztanés Way, Lebaniego Way"
- 2nd edition: August 2011
- Published by: Basque Government, Government of Cantabria, Government of the Principality of Asturias,
Regional Government of Galicia, Government of Navarre, Government of La Rioja.
It is delightful and instructive to read, because it does not bother about albergues and restaurants, but does its best to treat the Camino del Norte as a pilgrimage road and to show the affinity of some of its places to the worship of Santiago. I found 12 such places by searching for the word "Santiago" and I shall freely quote them.
1. The start of the Northern Way could not be more laden with symbolism: it sets off at the Santiago bridge (at Irun) crossing the River Bidasoa.
2. Hondarribia (old Irun): Leaving its old quarter, you will see the odd hint at the pilgrims’ Way: the 15th century Chapel of Santiagotxo (Ermita de Santiago), dedicated to Saint James the Apostle.
3. Zarautz: It is the Church of Santa María la Real that has most association with the Way to Santiago, being home to the sepulchre of an anonymous pilgrim who asked to be buried in this church in the 16th century.
4. Zumaia: The Santiago beach welcomes us.
5. There are few beginnings as stimulating as the departure from Markina-Xemein. Firstly, the idyllic village of Bolibar and later, a religious monument that is one of its kind in Biscay: The Collegiate Church of Cenarruza or Ziortza (14c) is located roughly two kilometers from the urban nucleus. It was an important enclave in the Route of Santiago de Compostela, and its influence extended beyond the comarca and surpassed the religious scope.
6. Munitibar-Arbatzegi: The Chapel of Santiago situated at the heights of the Aldaka district, is another reference to the Way of Saint James.
7. The Cathedral of Bilbao, dedicated to Saint James the Apostle and with its particular Pilgrims’ Gate for those on the Way to Santiago, is the finest example of the extent to which the pilgrims’ way has seeped into the city.
8. The most important temple of the small town of Santiago de Cudeyo is the Church of Santiago. It is a small church of a single nave with attached sacristy whose exterior highlights its belfry with two bodies (on the west side). A building in whose construction Late Gothic, Renaissance and Baroque elements were used.
The church has two access points. The oldest is the door with a simple semicircular arch located on the facade that faces the road. The most recent one is the one on the north façade, the one under the colorful belfry. It was opened in the eighteenth century and has a flat vain.
If you want to see its main altarpiece of baroque style made during the first half of the eighteenth century you will have to go in prayer time because the temple is not open specifically for visits. The doubled Solomonic columns and the image of Santiago Matamoros that frames a three-lobed vain will probably draw your attention.
(https://www.minube.com/rincon/iglesia-de-santiago-a2203419 )
9. San Vicente de la Barquera: One of these gates (from 1210 city wall), opening south, is the Pilgrims’ Gate, recalling the walkers’ passage through here on their way to Santiago. Other testimonies were the hospital that was built in the 15th century next to the church, and the sculpture of Saint James that has been conserved in its interior.
10. Llanes (13c): It was well known as a stop along the route to Santiago, as evinced by the hospital that existed outside the city walls, of which only the chapel has survived. It has a rich heritage. In the Romanesque-Gothic Church of Santa María, the main portal has archivolts decorated with figures of Saint James and a series of pilgrims.
11. One of the traditional roads between Ribadesella/Ribeseya and Villaviciosa passed by the Church of Santiago at Gobiendes and in fact stopped at Gobiendes.
12. On the route to Gijon we will go through villages like Pion, with its Parish Church of Santiago, and Deva, with remains of a pre-Romanesque temple.
Since I am going to turn to the Camino Primitivo and end my trip at Oviedo, which is of great historical and cultural interest to me, I stopped my search here.
My findings, meager as they are, have somewhat improved my attitude, but I do not believe will induce me to hike this route another time, unless it proves to be really fabulous.