Help identifying mysterious letters on a door knocker in Cirauqui

[Bert45]

The attached photos were taken in Cirauqui last September, though the date is irrelevant. Streetview says the door belongs to 9 Calle Portal. What intrigues me is the letters on the 'ribbon' wrapped around the ring of the door knocker. Some of the letters must be on the other side of the ring. Does anybody know what the letters are and what they might say?

 

[amancio]

On the left you see the sacred heart of Jesus blessing the house. As to the text in the metal ribbon that wraps the ring... not a clue, I am afraid!

 

[Lindsay53]

I'm no expert, but is it possible that this is a 'sanctuary ring' that once hung on the door of a medieval church? Someone on the run from the authorities could grab hold of the ring and claim sanctuary from his pursuers.

 

[Kathor1]

Does anybody know what the letters are and what they might say?

Since this door is right on the Camino Francés and easy to find, contact people who are currently walking, or will walk this year, and ask them to have a look. I am confident that you will find pilgrims who will be happy to do so.

 

[Pafayac]

I suggest to send this question to turismo@navarra.es.

 

[Chase]

thanks for the question Bert. Im so curious now.. and now Im curious about the coat of arms above the door... antique dealer may have answers as well...

 

[peregrina2000]

I wrote to Juanma who owns and operates the Albergue Maralotx in Cirauqui (shameless plug - it’s a great place). I know the albergue is closed, but if he’s checking email, I’m sure he’ll be back with an answer.

 

[El Cascayal]

I wrote to Juanma who owns and operates the Albergue Maralotx in Cirauqui (shameless plug - it’s a great place). I know the albergue is closed, but if he’s checking email, I’m sure he’ll be back with an answer.

Looks like a plus plus Parador! I may have to do the Frances after all.

 

[mariposa627]

The attached photos were taken in Cirauqui last September, though the date is irrelevant. Streetview says the door belongs to 9 Calle Portal. What intrigues me is the letters on the 'ribbon' wrapped around the ring of the door knocker. Some of the letters must be on the other side of the ring. Does anybody know what the letters are and what they might say?View attachment 139291View attachment 139292

 

[wisepilgrim]

The real pity here is that it looks like the ring has been deactivated.

 

[Anamya]

I'm guessing if one of the words could be "Tailerra", which means "workshop" in Euskera (Basque language). There seems to be the another word in there that ends in a B, no idea what that could be.
But hey, what an awesome mystery, I hope someone can actually go there and check!

 

[Kathor1]

it looks like the ring has been deactivated.

Good observation! The item appears to be fixed to the door with three screws and appears to have a merely decorative function as it cannot be used for knocking and also not for pulling the door. This will make it harder to see the other letters on the ring.

 

[Corned Beef]

Good observation! The item appears to be fixed to the door with three screws and appears to have a merely decorative function as it cannot be used for knocking and also not for pulling the door. This will make it harder to see the other letters on the ring.

Good spot. Someone will need a large cordless drill and the appropriate fixings to remove these - and some WD40.

 

[Juanma]

I wrote to Juanma who owns and operates the Alberque Maralotx in Cirauqui (shameless plug - it’s a great place). I know the albergue is closed, but if he’s checking email, I’m sure he’ll be back with an answer.

Hi. I've seen the door knocker and also photographed it in my first strolls around Cirauqui some years ago. As soon as I am back in Cirauqui over the next few days I will try and read the letters around the ribbon and get back to you all here. Will take a few days though...

 

[Kathor1]

Some light entertainment while we are waiting ... groan:

Knock knock​

Who’s there?​

Theodore!​

Theodore who?​

Theodore wasn’t open, so I knocked.​

​

In my defence, I saw this on a website where I wanted to learn a bit more about the use and functions of medieval door rings on church portals.

 

[Bert45]

Hi. I've seen the door knocker and also photographed it in my first strolls around Cirauqui some years ago. As soon as I am back in Cirauqui over the next few days I will try and read the letters around the ribbon and get back to you all here. Will take a few days though...

Thanks, Juanma. I can wait. It will be difficult, especially if the screw at the bottom has fixed the ring to the door. I can't figure out which way the letters go -- clockwise or anticlockwise.

 

[Juanma]

Hi there! I've just been there today and spent a good 10 minutes taking some pics and videos, trying to use my phone's camera in different positions and modes to try and read all the letters around the ribbon (which yes, is definitely fixed so no one can knock)...

My final conclusion doesn't provide a lot of sense, but it is what is written there... should any one know what the letters stand for or mean, I'd love to know!!

Reading from top left to down (left hand side of the ribbon), and then top right to down (right hand side of the ribbon):

THE
BRA
ALHA
THE

THE
ALHA
MBA
THE

 

[dbier]

Wild guess...the Alhambra?

 

[Juanma]

Wild guess...the Alhambra?

I also thought so, but then... why the ramdom order of letters?, why not correctly ordered somehow?

 

[Bert45]

And isn't 'THE' a bit, I don't know, English?
But thanks for your efforts, Juanma.

 

[dick bird]

Ciraqui seems to have a thing about door knockers. It was early in the morning and quite dark when we passed through so I missed the lion's head but I got this. Perhaps someone could ask the people who live at number9?

 

[peregrina2000]

@Juanma gets the gold star for going on wild goose chases to satisfy forum members’ whimsical musings! Thanks very much for doing that. I had no idea it would be so tedious when I asked you to hunt it down.

Juanma — do the breaks that you put in letters correspond with actual spacing on the ribbon, or is it your attempt to make some sense out of it?

And I think I understand that you read one half from top right down to the bottom of the knocker, and then top left down the other side to the bottom?

I know that lions are very frequently used on doorknockers, but wonder if this has some reference to the patio de los leones?

Thanks again, Juanma.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Wild guess...the Alhambra?

And isn't 'THE' a bit, I don't know, English?

I know that lions are very frequently used on doorknockers, but wonder if this has some reference to the patio de los leones?

Possibly a souvenir of the Alhambra meant for English speaking tourists.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Close enough to these Alhambra lion doorknockers?

Redirect Notice

Can Stock Photo

 

[Camino Chrissy]

@Juanma gets the gold star for going on wild goose chases to satisfy forum members’ whimsical musings!

Yes, and @Bert45 gets the platinum star for his level of curiosity pertaining to various pilgrimage relics; often requesting help from forum members. The whimsical mysteries often get solved eventually by the forum "sleuths" willing to dig deep.

 

[peregrina2000]

Good guess, methinks! It looks like there is also writing on those knockers, but the letters are different. How bizarre!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Good guess, methinks! It looks like there is also writing on those knockers, but the letters are different. How bizarre!

The pictures I point to could be of the real things and the Cirauqui knocker a souvenir picked up with a disregard fof the language.

BTW, I see some pictures of Carlos' Palace with a long line of similar rings. These may be for tying horses.

 

[Kathor1]

Close enough to these Alhambra lion doorknockers?

They are not doorknockers though. They are bronze rings for tethering horses. Renaissance style. Facade of Charles V's palace.

I, too, would like to say thankyou to @Juanma for taking the trouble and trying to shed light on this topic and to help answer this question. I am as as he is. Like everyone else, I noticed the combination of the 3 letters that make up THE and the tantalising combination of letters that could be ALHAMBRA but doesn't appear to be so.

And of course I immediately googled for it and I even found a website where the (Alhambra) text is explained but I did not make a note and for the life of me I cannot find it again. I can't even remember whether the website was in Spanish, English, German, French or Italian. The text on the (Alhambra) rings is Spanish, perhaps with some abbreviations, I am quite certain of this. The text is identical on both sides and it is read from top to bottom on one side and from bottom to top on the other side - all quite similar to the Cirauqui item.

Perhaps these Alhambra rings were an inspiration for the item seen on the door in Cirauqui? It seems that the house has a display of four doorknockers / door pulls / tethering rings on the outside. One wonders what they have inside, perhaps a larger collection?

Charles V, Palace, Alhambra:

 

[mspath]

All of this is, of course, fascinating and all successful sleuths cited above should be very proud and pleased.

However, it still would be rewarding to learn the true history of the building in question. If you "walk" about the block on which 9 calle Portal stands you will "see" a relatively low "new" wall with various other older stones/objects set into that wall. Hence my immediate reaction is that this building includes earlier bits. Perhaps it was built for/by an antiquaire or history buff. Does anyone know?

 

[Kathor1]

Of course, as soon as you think that you know something for sure, along comes another website that knows better :

The forty rings on the facade of the Palace of Charles V at La Alhambra were not for tying up horses [...] They are decorative accessories and were used with some frequency in the 15th century on Italian monuments. They were usually made of wrought iron and not bronze and seem to have originated in Florence and Siena.​

​

Merely decoration then ...

Source: Granada Hoy - Los argollas del Palacio de Carlos V

 

[peregrina2000]

They are not doorknockers though. They are bronze rings for tethering horses. Renaissance style. Facade of Charles V's palace.

I, too, would like to say thankyou to @Juanma for taking the trouble and trying to shed light on this topic and to help answer this question. I am as as he is. Like everyone else, I noticed the combination of the 3 letters that make up THE and the tantalising combination of letters that could be ALHAMBRA but doesn't appear to be so.

And of course I immediately googled for it and I even found a website where the (Alhambra) text is explained but I did not make a note and for the life of me I cannot find it again. I can't even remember whether the website was in Spanish, English, German, French or Italian. The text on the (Alhambra) rings is Spanish, perhaps with some abbreviations, I am quite certain of this. The text is identical on both sides and it is read from top to bottom on one side and from bottom to top on the other side - all quite similar to the Cirauqui item.

Perhaps these Alhambra rings were an inspiration for the item seen on the door in Cirauqui? It seems that the house has a display of four doorknockers / door pulls / tethering rings on the outside. One wonders what they have inside, perhaps a larger collection?

Charles V, Palace, Alhambra:
View attachment 140432

The curly haired lion in your second photo, @Kathar1na, looks identical to the one Bert originally posted, I think. Just different letters.

 

[Juanma]

@Juanma gets the gold star for going on wild goose chases to satisfy forum members’ whimsical musings! Thanks very much for doing that. I had no idea it would be so tedious when I asked you to hunt it down.

Juanma — do the breaks that you put in letters correspond with actual spacing on the ribbon, or is it your attempt to make some sense out of it?

And I think I understand that you read one half from top right down to the bottom of the knocker, and then top left down the other side to the bottom?

I know that lions are very frequently used on doorknockers, but wonder if this has some reference to the patio de los leones?

Thanks again, Juanma.

No problem! I would have done it earlier if it was a different time of the year, but now in the coldest of the Winter I don't go to Cirauqui that often...
The order I wrote the letters is: first the left side of it (as you look into it): from top to bottom; then the right side, from top to bottom. And the letters are spaced like that, in groups of 3 or 4 letters.
Your guess of the relationship with the Alhambra was then finally Laurie!

Possibly a souvenir of the Alhambra meant for English speaking tourists.

As Rick and also Katharina say, that's actually my guess, yes: I remembered having seen a youtube video about Cirauqui where they interviewed the famous painter that lives there. I looked for it, and it says that he has a connection with Morocco, spending there some months every year. The door knocker happens to be on the door of HIS house, so my guess is that the same reason that drives him to Morocco for months every year drove him to the Alhambra at some point years ago and he purchased a door knocker copy souvenir and placed it on his door.

Here's the video, and the part where his connection to Morocco is mentioned is in minute 38'45":

All of this is, of course, fascinating and all successful sleuths cited above should be very proud and pleased.

However, it still would be rewarding to learn the true history of the building in question. If you "walk" about the block on which 9 calle Portal stands you will "see" a relatively low "new" wall with various other older stones/objects set into that wall. Hence my immediate reaction is that this building includes earlier bits. Perhaps it was built for/by an antiquaire or history buff. Does anyone know?

mspath, I'm not sure what you mean by:

you will "see" a relatively low "new" wall with various other older stones/objects set into that wall

What I found out from the video I linked earlier is that the door the knocker is on, and the whole house which goes around the corner into calle Rebote, belongs to that painter, who bought it in 1985.

 

[Kathor1]

Wow, I had wondered what was behind this door. I did not expect that .

So it is known as the House of the Painter, it is owned by Antonio Laita Viguaria who is one of the most well-known painters of Navarra and who was befriended with the Duchess of Alba ... I read elsewhere that he saved the house from wreckage, and it looks just wonderful - like an art museum. Thank you for this video link!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I have just emailed Señor Laita.

 

[mspath]

I have just emailed Señor Laita.

So did I at 18:12 French time this evening.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

So did I at 18:12 French time this evening.

Ya beat me! Let's see who reports back here first. We both may be up at about the same UTC time.

 

[mspath]

Ya beat me! Let's see who reports back here first. We both may be up at about the same UTC time.

I trust that a your more formal signature will receive a full reply.

 

[Kathor1]

The curly haired lion in your second photo looks identical to the one Bert originally posted, I think. Just different letters.

I put the two photos next to each other and the similarity between the two is indeed striking. I'd also like to add that I know again what it says on the rings on the facade of the Alhambra palace of Charles V (photo on the left). It says Plus Oultre. You read it starting in the middle of the ring at the top or at the bottom and then follow the band anti-clockwise. The words were chosen as his personal motto by Charles when he was Duke of Burgundy; his first language was French. He later became king of Spain and emperor of the Holy Roman Empire.

The words are written in the French that was spoken in the 16th century; in Spain this motto is expressed in Latin form: Plus Ultra. The motto is also on the current Spanish flag but I had never noticed it before! It is translated as Further or Further Beyond. There is no direct relationship with the Camino's ultreia but ultreia is likely to also come from the old French word oultre.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I got a reply to an email I sent to the souvenir shop at the Alhambra. They don't sell this souvenir. They were kindly helpful in informing me about the ornament's association with Carlos though.

 

[Juanma]

So did I at 18:12 French time this evening.

Hi! Have any of you two received a reply from Mr. Laita? Curious to know...

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Hi! Have any of you two received a reply from Mr. Laita? Curious to know...

Not me; not yet.

 

[mspath]

Hi! Have any of you two received a reply from Mr. Laita? Curious to know...

No reply as yet.

 

[Juanma]

Not me; not yet.

No reply as yet

Hi all... so really, really... you guys never got a reply from him?

Anyway... these days he has an exhibition of his work in his home, plus he published a book. It's mentioned in his website https://antonio-laita7.webnode.es/, plus I also saw it published in the local newspaper some days ago:



Anyone coming through Cirauqui until Sept. 15th within the opening times can go visit it!

 

[Juanma]

Anyone coming through Cirauqui until Sept. 15th within the opening times can go visit it!

Sorry, it's actually on until OCTOBER 15th!!!