IMPORTANT: Advice for pilgrims setting off APRIL 2013

[keoghy]

I set off from sjpp on last thursday I headed up to orisson and it was a lovely walk, I already knew the mountain path was a no go but i didnt see the point in wasting the reservation. Early the next morning we were transferred to valcarlos (for free) were we walked the trail to roncevalles there was a couple of light snow showers but nothing to hardcore. Then overnight 2 feet of snow fell on roncevalles. I followed the trail from burgette to espinal approx 3km in the snow it took me 2 hours. I followed the road the rest of the way to zubiri along with all the other pilgrims. It seems the snow isnt that deep on this side of the alto de erro and is barely covering the ground. The forecast for today is 8C and getting warmer during the week. Up in orisson the weather can change so fast from blanket fog to thick snow to breathtaking scenery and back again in less than 5 mins. I would advise against the route napoleon at least until the snow is gone.

 

[whariwharangi]

Is anyone making it over the top at all? Even with a stop in Orisson? Is it possible to get to the snow from Orisson? I have done the Hymalayas however, the person I am going with has never seen snow, so I thought it would be a treat for her. It would be worth a day out to play in the snow

I am making some assumptions here because I have not walked in snow in the Pyranees. I do not know how deep the snow is or how much snow cover there is.

I do have considerable hiking experience on snow in mountains on Vancouver Island. These notes are from experience at home where snow is deep and lingers into July. It might not be relative to the conditions on the Napoleon route.

Spring snow conditions are quite variable in the course of a day. In the early morning it will be hard and icy and footing might be risky; stay off the sun cups. By midmorning the crust will have softened and walking will be easy; easier than walking on a mountain route that would otherwise be covered in rocks and brush. By early afternoon the snow will have softened a lot and it will be two steps forward and one step back; in terms of progress, an exercise in developing character. If the snow is deep you could find yourself sinking in to your waist.

A danger with walking on spring snow that is but a couple of feet deep is stepping on snow hollowed out underneath by melt water. You could end up suddenly plunging into a hole with significant risk to your knees and ankles.

Given that you won't reach the elevations where you will encounter snow till afternoon ... expect a hard slog. Its a long day to Roncesvalles from SJPdP on a good day. I wouldnt want to 'play' in the snow when the day is going to be a long hard one.

I should add that the snow reflects the sun quite well. Sun glasses and sun screen are necessary to prevent serious burns. Glacier walkers sometimes get sun burn on the roof of their mouths.

 

[CJ Williams]

I set off from sjpp on last thursday I headed up to orisson and it was a lovely walk, I already knew the mountain path was a no go but i didnt see the point in wasting the reservation. Early the next morning we were transferred to valcarlos (for free) were we walked the trail to roncevalles there was a couple of light snow showers but nothing to hardcore. Then overnight 2 feet of snow fell on roncevalles. I followed the trail from burgette to espinal approx 3km in the snow it took me 2 hours. I followed the road the rest of the way to zubiri along with all the other pilgrims. It seems the snow isnt that deep on this side of the alto de erro and is barely covering the ground. The forecast for today is 8C and getting warmer during the week. Up in orisson the weather can change so fast from blanket fog to thick snow to breathtaking scenery and back again in less than 5 mins. I would advise against the route napoleon at least until the snow is gone.

Thank you for posting this information from practical experience, keoghy. It's very helpful to have some direct confirmation of the conditions on the Camino. I have been doing my best trying to get out the information that the Guardia Civil, the local rescue services and the hospitaleros in St. Jean, Roncesvalles and Valcarolos have been providing in the hopes that it will help everyone make good choices and stay safe, but it's still very helpful to have someone provide some confirmation like this. Thank you and God bless!

 

[dogtorbill]

OK this is my first forum post; I just been a silent stalker until this morning. I also am too tropical to enjoy much of the cold wet stuff; I have had much anticipation of the beautiful Pyranees covered in spring wildflowers in April/May. HaHa, but once again, when we make plans, God shows his sense of humor. Anyway, I arrive in San Sebastian in 9 days, on the 17th. Thinking perhaps to A) start walking from there south (does such a route exist?), or B0 train south to join up with my intended Frances route. Seems like I mis so much of the journey by starting in Pamplona...can my new friends here suggest better alternatives???

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Pamplona is a fantastic starting place! After a potentially horrendous walk up the Pyrenees, there is nothing until Pamplona anyway, at least nothing you won't find sometime later on the pilgrimage. Why be miserable for three days to see three hours of views, which may be obscured by rain and fog?

 

[tyrrek]

Hi dogtorbill, and welcome!

There is the Camino Vasco del Interior, which I think runs down from Irun and San Sebastian to join the Camino Frances at Santo Domingo de la Calzada. That would probably be a lonely trip though, and I doubt the pilgrim infrastructure is very well developed. I've never done it, but depending on your walking experience, Spanish language skills, priorities, weather etc it could be quite a challenge. There's a separate thread for that Camino on this forum.

Personally I'd go for Pamplona - I've walked from there and also from SJPP, and I don't think you're missing too much at all. The wild flowers will line most of the Way. Especially poppies.

Buen Camino!

 

[dogtorbill]

But knowing me like I know me, I'll feel like I'm cheating by starting in Pamplona! Haha, may just be a decision I make when I get off the plane in San Sebastian, unless someone twists my arm before that..

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The snow level is above 2,000 meters, with a touch of rain predicted crossing the Pyrenees. The snow melt may cause wet conditions.

 

[dogtorbill]

At the risk of showing everyone that I'm an idiot, what exactly does that (snow level and rain post) mean in regards to walking the Camino?

 

[trinencadian]

Don’t worry, dogtorbill. I live in a valley so was wondering the same thing! Still wondering if I should make a last minute purchase of gaiters if I start walking on the 21st…

 

[CaminoJohn]

At the risk of showing everyone that I'm an idiot, what exactly does that (snow level and rain post) mean in regards to walking the Camino?

Hey, "Snow level" refers to the elevation that rain turns to snow. I think the high pass on the Napoleon route is at 1430 meters...so rain at that level...snow at 2000 meters or above.

 

[Paul G]

I am no expert, but the Route Napoleon pass at Lepoeder is at just over 1400 meters, so the snow level at 2000 meters is above this. So this should mean that it is rain at the pass and not snow.

 

[Paul G]

Hi Caminojohn, Our messages passed in the ether

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Still wondering if I should make a last minute purchase of gaiters

Gaiters won't do much for mud and watery paths, so unless you are getting them for rain, save the expense. They will help keep your boots dry in the rain, though, and I usually take them. I don't wear them unless it is raining pretty steadily.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I agree with Falcon.. starting in Pamplona is an excellent idea and no, you're not missing much if you can't walk over the pyrenees anyway because of snow. Pamplona is worth spending a few days to adjust to the time, also. Lots to see there.

 

[santa666]

still hoping that because of warmer wetter will be the route over the Pyrenees better "walkable" as it is now and the snow will be thawned soon (best tomorrow) :idea: but this is sci fi, not real...

 

[whariwharangi]

Still wondering if I should make a last minute purchase of gaiters

Gaiters won't do much for mud and watery paths, so unless you are getting them for rain, save the expense. They will help keep your boots dry in the rain, though, and I usually take them. I don't wear them unless it is raining pretty steadily.

I wear gaiters to keep mud and debris out of my boots. They do work in mud as well as in snow.

In my experience they do not work well to keep boots dry in rain though they help in keeping water thats running down your legs out of your boots.

Boots stay dry with water repellant waxes. The feets get some limited protection from gortex linings.

I would recommend buying a pair and wearing them the entire camino. I was quite happy I had them whilst wading through the cow poop in Galacia.

 

[santa666]

Still wondering if I should make a last minute purchase of gaiters

Gaiters won't do much for mud and watery paths, so unless you are getting them for rain, save the expense. They will help keep your boots dry in the rain, though, and I usually take them. I don't wear them unless it is raining pretty steadily.

I wear gaiters to keep mud and debris out of my boots. They do work in mud as well as in snow.

In my experience they do not work well to keep boots dry in rain though they help in keeping water thats running down your legs out of your boots.

Boots stay dry with water repellant waxes. The feets get some limited protection from gortex linings.

I would recommend buying a pair and wearing them the entire camino. I was quite happy I had them whilst wading through the cow poop in Galacia.

another think which need to be added on my list... thanks god, that I have still one week to buy all those thinks..

 

[whariwharangi]

At the risk of showing everyone that I'm an idiot, what exactly does that (snow level and rain post) mean in regards to walking the Camino?

The rain means the existing snow pack will get saturated with water. So the snow will become dense and relatively easy to walk on top of.

The snow level 2000 meters as has been pointed out, means the snow turns to rain at elevations below 2000 meters. Rain ... That means cold rain and sleet; great conditions for hypothermia.

 

[tyrrek]

Hopefully no Hypothermia. Do all ensure that you know the emergency number and update local taxi numbers each day in case you find yourselves in difficulty or just uneasy with the conditions. As the seasons change and the snow melts there will undoubtably be new problems as already mentioned with mud, or ice in the early morning etc. Fear not, but walk with care and also a bunch of other peregrinos! Buen Camino!

 

[Trishkerry]

Oh heck ! How stupid of me. I don't know the emergency number????

 

[mspath]

Oh heck ! How stupid of me. I don't know the emergency number????

Trish,

The emergency number for all of Europe is 112. Add it to your phone now! Let's hope that you never need to use it. When you call a multi lingual operator will answer and transfer the call to the correct authorities.

Be sure to read this important Forum thread by Navarricano on Emergency numbers >> frequently-asked-questions/topic17361.html

Buen Camino,

Margaret Meredith

 

[Trishkerry]

Added to phone. Thank you. x

 

[Deleted member 3000]

There is an avalanche warning out for the Pyrenees section of Navarra today. It is hard to imagine a place on the Camino where this would be a danger, but it does mean that there is thawing and instability. That would affect stability on packed snow, too. Staying on pavement and hard-packed terrain may be advisable.

 

[DarrenCombrink]

Hi All

I really hope things improve by the 3rd of May, otherwise I will avoid this route.

Regards,
Darren

 

[naplesdon]

Falcon, I am not a bit surprised about your report. Over here in Biarritz the temperatures are close to 60F and after a steady rain yesterday with a forecast for 80F on Sunday, the snow melt off is going to be rapid and all that white stuff has to find someplace to go downhill fast. No doubt!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

More avalanche warnings for Saturday, and I don't know anything more about what that means. I suspect it is for valleys with snow overhang, but I don't remember anything looking like that on the Camino. Still, any hazard warning probably requires serious consideration. You can beat the mud, water, and danger by going through Valcarlos and staying on the road.

 

[dogtorbill]

I'm anxiously watching comments on this thread every morning from everyone (lately between falcon and biarritzdon). Having never seen any part of the Camino, this is all playing out in my mind until 3 days, when I'm there. There was some mention that the lower (valcarlos) road avoids the mud - is it entirely paved? If not, I would have thought the lower area even more muddy, as upper melts & drains on them ... I was thinking now with 4-5 days of warm sun, that the upper road will be much better on Wednesday, when I start... not true???
thanks, bill

 

[Deleted member 3000]

is it entirely paved?

The yellow arrows will direct you off the road on several occasions, but these shortcuts always return to the road, so you can stay on pavement when it is wet.

 

[tyrrek]

The yellow arrows will direct you off the road on several occasions, but these shortcuts always return to the road, so you can stay on pavement when it is wet.

That's not how I remember it Falcon, especially when you get to the more elevated section after Valcarlos. You walk along the road for several kms then walk up a single file woodland path to Ibaneta. You're never far from the road, and indeed you could stay on it if you wished, but the marked route takes you along a path that could be quite muddy and difficult at the moment.

Buen Camino!

 

[KinkyOne]

@dogtorbill

I completely agree with tyrrek, that off-tracks after Valcarlos main road might be even more muddy as the higher route. On this one you just have to take care about orientation when there's fog. Steady and thinking all the time! Otherwise you can walk by the asphalt road up to Ibaneta Pass, but it's really pain in the ass, all these circuitry... I've done it with twisted ankle and would never recomend it to anyone. Except in really baaaaaaaad weather.

Take care. And buen camino!

 

[naplesdon]

Dogtorbill, I can only tell you what it's like in Biarritz. It was nearly 80 on Saturday and already 70 at 9:30am on Sunday. I just walked to the beach in t-shirt and shorts, that hasn't been possible since last October. The warm up has got to bode well for for the first day into Navarre, but I haven't read a posts from anyone who has walked over there in the past 24 to 48 hours. There is a slight chance of rain on Monday but the rest of week is supposed to be warm and sunny. The European satellite image looks promising for week also. Buen Camino!

 

[naplesdon]

14 Avril Sud Ouest dimanche: Mais oui! Mais Oui! L'hiver est fini. Region Apres un hiver interminable marque par des temperatures basses et de fortes precipitations, le retour du grand beau temps ce week-end fait du bien. This is our regional newspaper's headline today.

 

[santa666]

Cool, no idea what is written there )

 

[tyrrek]

Winter is over! Buen Camino!
p.s. Still take advice about the mountain routes, where the weather can be less predictable.

 

[santa666]

FINALLY, thanks to God, Im so happy, that I can start my camino in SJPP. Thanks to everobody for bringing information about weather.

THANKS,

Denis

 

[dogtorbill]

Denis, Exactly when dp you arrive in SJPP? Will you want to leave immediately, or recover a day from Jetlag? Will you go (intend to) all the way to Roncesvalles, or stay in Orison? Maybe better to PM me for this stuff...
Bill

 

[qpqp]

What's with reporting temperatures in degrees fahrenheit as in
"It was nearly 80 on Saturday and already 70 at 9:30am on Sunday'''.
The whole world has converted to centigrade, except the United States which insists on using an outmoded system of units. I grew up using fahrenheit but I've long since lost touch with what those numbers mean. Yes, I know how to convert but why not just report the temperature in a manner which makes sense to most people on the planet.

 

[eano]

Thanks for the weather updates everybody. Fahrenheit/centigrade? ......doesn't matter! Just loving the news that's coming in. Hope it holds for May.
Debbie

 

[Deleted member 3000]

There is an avalanche warning again today.

 

[mspath]

Although not as potentially serious as the avalanche warning noted by Falcon the TER line 62 train line which connects Bayonne and SJPdP posted the following notice this morning.

Vol de câbles sur la ligne Bayonne-St Jean Pied de Port: Les réparations et des investigations poussées liées à la sécurité des circulations imposent de substituer les trains par un service routier.
Rétablissement envisagé lundi 22 avril 2013.

Translated this reads "Cables have been stolen from the line Bayonne - St Jean Pied de Port. Repairs to the line and investigation necessitate the use of buses instead of trains until next Monday, April 22."

To my knowledge when this happened in the past the buses left at the same time as the trains were scheduled and the train tickets were used on the buses.

See this link for the temporarily REVISED schedule. The bottom chart is the correct one for the replacement buses to SJPdP which will depart from the front of the Bayonne rr station (Gare SNCF). >> http://telechargement.ter-sncf.com/Imag ... -87621.pdf

Margaret Meredith

 

[lightup25]

Thank you so much for the info Margaret Meredith! I have a ticket for the 18th so it's nice to know ahead of time that I'll be getting on a bus instead.

And a billion thanks to all the weather updates! You guys have been so great in helping me prepare for my trip.

 

[aaron657]

Thanks for the information on trains being replaced by buses. I booked a ticket from Paris to Bayonne on the 21st but I am having a really difficult time booking a ticket to St Jean Pied de Porte on the website https://www.ter.ritmx.sncf.com/ter/html ... ?region=11

Does anyone know of an alternative means of booking the last leg to SJPDP?

Thanks for the information about the first stage and the train situation. It is much appreciated.

 

[KinkyOne]

@aaron657

You don't have to worry about reservation for the train from Bayonne to SJPDP. It's a local train and is never full. Just show up at the train station and buy a ticket. Simple as that!

Buen Camino!

 

[aaron657]

@kinkyone

Thanks for the information!

 

[delmarie]

We are setting out in a couple of days to begin our journey on the Camino. Weatherwise, and based on experience, would it be appropriate to wear trail running shoes, rather than hiking boots. My hiking boots are amazing but awfully heavy for this adventure. What are peoples thoughts on this based on the weather. My trail running shoes are also gortez. Thanks,

 

[healthytoo]

I will be leaving Roncevalles on the 3rd May and hopefully walking the Napoleonic Route. There doesn't seem to have been any new information posted here in ages. Has it stopped snowing? are people going that way yet? Thanks

 

[qpqp]

We are setting out in a couple of days to begin our journey on the Camino. Weatherwise, and based on experience, would it be appropriate to wear trail running shoes, rather than hiking boots. My hiking boots are amazing but awfully heavy for this adventure. What are peoples thoughts on this based on the weather. My trail running shoes are also gortez. Thanks,

I've never been on the Camino so I'll leave it to others to provide
meaningful and authoritative advice. However, I've been following a
picture blog by a Canadian from Vancouver, Randall St. Germain, who
did the walk in 2012 in 20 days starting on April 29 and the amount
of mud and rain he encountered would seem to argue against running
shoes. Have a look at this page from his blog

http://www.caminomyway.com/on-the-camin ... o-el-acebo

and you will see some of the snow and mud that he encountered in
Galicia, and this is just one example of the cold and wet conditions
he faced.

BTW, if you want to have a look at the rest of the blog you have to
start here

http://www.caminomyway.com/on-the-camin ... e-pyrenees

and click on the links to the next page at the bottom of the page.
He has some great pictures and you will get some idea of what the walking
conditions might be like.

 

[Al the optimist]

Healthytoo
Just looked at the Esprit de Chemin site and on the 12th it said that the Napolean Route was open but I have seen a weather forcast predicting rain/snow this Friday

 

[Magwood]

Went over the napoleon route today (16 april) in beautiful weather. There was still a fair bit of snow and in some places we had to trek through it, but it was no problem. Also a bit of mud from melting snow. Hard work but well worth the effort.

 

[tyrrek]

Went over the napoleon route today (16 april) in beautiful weather. There was still a fair bit of snow and in some places we had to trek through it, but it was no problem. Also a bit of mud from melting snow. Hard work but well worth the effort.

Glad you enjoyed it! And a good reminder, that over the next week or two it won't just be the weather but the surface conditions to consider. As always, take advice. Buen muddy Camino a todos!

 

[max44]

Went over the top three days ago. Never seen head winds like it. Allllll the way from 5 k past Orisson. Solo tired at the end. Two guys lost their packs when the wind took them over the edge.
Snow walking was great. Found a pilgrim who was lost in the Forrest. It was taped off and closed... At least I saw them from above.
People are telling me it is now great to cross the top.

 

[Magwood]

Pls note that albergue at Zariquiegui is closed. We walked from larrasoaña today expecting to stay here after walking 28 km and then discovered we had to make a huge climb and descent over Alto del Perdón to Uterga, a further 6.5 km. we then discovered that the albergue in Uterga was full and all that was on offer was a double room in a house 500 metres away for €50. Very comfortable, but extortionate cost. At least no snoring for us tonight. Don't get caught out like we did. Still having a great time though!
Buen Camino

 

[William Marques]

See el-camino-frances/topic17944.html

 

[Trishkerry]

Walked the route napoleon today and it was fine. Cold and misty but safe. Very little snow and hardly any mud. Loving my camino so far with Kay, Liam and M.

 

[CJ Williams]

Hello all,

Sorry for the disappearing act over the past couple of weeks, but two jobs and hassles involving upcoming oral surgery to remove an impacted wisdom tooth have kept me pretty occupied.

As it appears that the worst of the problems with potential winter storms are now well past, I will only say "buen Camino" to all who are starting their journeys now. I am trying to remember to pray daily for all of the pilgrims out on the Way, so I promise my prayers for each of you as you journey.

Of course, the weather in the Pyrenees is always changeable, particularly in spring, so don't just assume all is fine on the Route Napoleon: keep on asking for weather information in St. Jean Pied-de-Port and at Orisson, heed the advice given, and don't make the mistake of substituting enthusiasm for knowledge/experience or make you everestimate your abilities. You can do it, but do it wisely so you can return home with a backpack full of marvellous adventures to share with the people you love.

In other words, "follow your heart, but take your brain with you."

And if you could spare the occasional prayer for me along the way, I'd be grateful.

God bless and buen Camino.

 

[Laliibeans]

In other words, "follow your heart, but take your brain with you."

Good advice, I think I should get that printed on a T-shirt!

 

[juliecarteraz]

Navarricano: I wish you the best of luck with your upcoming oral surgery. Thank you for all you do for us pilgrims. Although I am not yet on "the Way" you are in my prayers. I hope your recovery is speedy. Julie

 

[Al the optimist]

Staring in two weeks but you are already in my prayers. Thank you on behalf of us all for your recent updates. I hope all goes well with your surgery. Please let us know the outcome and how you are.

 

[naplesdon]

Here is a quick anecdotal weather update from where I sit in France for those setting out from SJPP between the final weekend of April and the beginning of May. The temperatures have dropped to between below zero and 10 in the mountains plus there is rain and sleet in the forecast. There is a visible cover of snow on La Rhune at noon on Saturday down to about the 700 m elevation, it tops out at 900 m; for comparison sake Roncevalles is at 950 m and Col de Leopoeder tops out at 1450 m. The heavy cloud cover also seems to be starting around the 700 m mark. Take care!

 

[max44]

Take a sleeping bag!!! No or few blankets. Freezing at night. So glad we have ours. Many buying them now on the camino. Warm clothes for night. Clothes will not dry etc. if you don't use your common sense and try the wear one wash one trip.... You will freeze and leave to go home like some have. We are still having fun but we are warm. Yeah, we carry a bigger pack, no big deal at all.

 

[William Marques]

New questions have been moved to - Advice for pilgrims Crossing Pyrenees Spring 2014