Insecurity about Downhills: Question

[CaminoDebrita]

Hello, my wonderful new friends--

I have several months before I depart--I'll fly into Madrid 28 September--so I have a lot of time to lose some pesky kilos and do some training. I am very "trainable" and get fit quickly. I'm a naturally very muscular woman, and have faith in myself. I do have a few touchy parts of my body that I am going to be paying close attention to: a slightly bad back (which acts up when I over-exert, which I am concerned about), and feet that have suffered (achilles tendonitis and some other issue I've forgotten the name of).

But never mind! we ALL have our imperfections that we carry along. We do our best with them and learn to buffer them with analgesics, menthol rubs, special massages. No big deal!

My concern this morning is the downhills. While on Camino Frances, I'd love to know the very roughest downhills so I can anticipate them. I have seen a few of them detailed in the guidebooks, but I'd love to know from any of you. I am so slow on them. I hope I don't hold anyone behind me up.....I usually go downhill on my backside and go slow slow slowly.

Where am I going to struggle? please tell me about your most difficult parts, and how you traversed them.

Best---

Deb

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I usually go downhill on my backside

I cannot think of any downhill where that is necessary. I am slow, too. Others can pass easily virtually everywhere. While I am stepping from rock to rock, others bound past like mountain goats. To each their* own!

* Now officially grammatical!!!

 

[Al the optimist]

There are no down-hills on the Frances that should cause you to even have to consider going down on your backside except in ice (unlikely in September). They really are not that steep and bad! You just have to go slowly and carefully, resting occasionally to save your knees. Given your comments above it sounds like you will be OK.

 

[wayfarer]

The ones that spring to mind are the track down to Zubiri, from Alto de Pardon to Uterga, the track from Acebo down to Molinaseca, and as falcon said none of these require you to travel on your bum, just take it nice and easy. I would also recommend using hiking poles as these will help you with both up and downhill.
Buen Camino.

 

[DowtyCamino]

Steepness isn't the issue, but loose rocks, wet surfaces and/or mud can be "hazardous". You will have to be careful and aware.
Going the last few miles into Roncevalles, coming down off of Alto de Pardon, come to mind as areas that you need to be aware. However it isn't these long hauls that I think would cause problems. It is the seemingly innocent step or wet spot that will end up getting you. And since you can't prepare for these, there is now reason to worry any more than you'd worry walking down a flight of steps at home or through the parking lot at the grocery.

All that being said. I slipped (coming down a flight of steps in an Albergue that had wet stairs from someone elses wet clothes dripping), Allison slipped on some rocks near Torres del Rio, ... we both survived.

 

[mspath]

All of us who walk cope in different ways. What I find difficult another might describe as easy. Each day is a toss-up of terrain, weather, personal strength and chance. Luckily for most of the CF walking on small parallel roads can lessen the downhill difficulties which in bad weather could be treacherous. For example the descent to Zubiri from the Alto de Erro is partly on shale so I walk on the verges of the N135. Similarly the descent from Monte Irago to El Acebo and Molinasecca is on scree and shale so following LE 147 is most helpful. Between Pamplona and Puente La Reina the camino descends from the Alto de Perdon on pure scree which can be pure hell in any weather. Read this earlier Forum thread for alternate easier approaches.

 

[Mark Lee]

All the downhills on the Camino Frances are plenty doable without having to resort to surfing down them on your butt. I don't recall seeing anybody on either of my Caminos doing that.
Take your time and watch your step. A pair of hiking poles would probably help with balance and support as well as keeping your pack as light as possible and wearing hiking shoes/boots with a good grippy sole material, like Vibram.

 

[naplesdon]

Poles are great to insure your stability and resorting to a slow crab walking might become necessary if it is wet.

 

[Icacos]

Very early in my Camino training, I became concerned about a pain in one knee which I felt only on the downhills. I was checked out at a sports clinic and learned that I did not have the proper stance while bending my knees and this, over time, resulted in weakened knees. I corrected my stance, followed a regimen of knee strengthening exercises, and was able to finish my Camino with no knee problems. I know the OP did not express any particular concern about her knees, but I thought I'd mention this here. Others have mentioned the importance of poles, and I heartily agree.

 

[RENSHAW]

Steepness isn't the issue, but loose rocks, wet surfaces and/or mud can be "hazardous". You will have to be careful and aware.

Yup , I go along with this - a sturdy wooden walking pole has saved me from certain injury sooooo many times . Such a pole saved my life in the Lake District while I was negotiating a path on a mountain scree ........... only to find mid way though that it was Herdwick goat track - it stopped me from sliding to my death.

 

[Dutch]

I cant think of one decent that is steep enough to go down from on your behind, but like some others say, poles can help on the downhills.

For your bad back, work on your abs. Good strong abs will lighten the load for your back.

 

[KentuckyJay]

Hello, my wonderful new friends--

I have several months before I depart--I'll fly into Madrid 28 September--so I have a lot of time to lose some pesky kilos and do some training. I am very "trainable" and get fit quickly. I'm a naturally very muscular woman, and have faith in myself. I do have a few touchy parts of my body that I am going to be paying close attention to: a slightly bad back (which acts up when I over-exert, which I am concerned about), and feet that have suffered (achilles tendonitis and some other issue I've forgotten the name of).

But never mind! we ALL have our imperfections that we carry along. We do our best with them and learn to buffer them with analgesics, menthol rubs, special massages. No big deal!

My concern this morning is the downhills. While on Camino Frances, I'd love to know the very roughest downhills so I can anticipate them. I have seen a few of them detailed in the guidebooks, but I'd love to know from any of you. I am so slow on them. I hope I don't hold anyone behind me up.....I usually go downhill on my backside and go slow slow slowly.

Where am I going to struggle? please tell me about your most difficult parts, and how you traversed them.

Best---

Deb

If you do not have trekking poles, get some! They make all the difference in the world, especially going downhill!

 

[PANO]

Poles are great to insure your stability and resorting to a slow crab walking might become necessary if it is wet.

....if one is trained to use the poles, yes. In our mountains here in Switzerland, many severe accidents occur every year by people stumbling over their own poles and experienced guides recommend them only to well trained people, otherwise the sticks can do more harm than good.
As for the Camino descents, others have already commenting correctly; none are even nearly as steep of making you go down on your backside (LOL)

 

[kmrice]

The descent into Roncevalles is one of the worst since it is objectively tough and is on your first or second day out, before you have gotten into shape. There are others equally tough, but at least you'll be used to it by the time you reach them. Fortunately, there is an alternative to that descent which I understand is on roadway. Lots of people use it and I think it is well marked in most guides. Consider it.

There is also an alternative from SJFdP to Roncevalles which avoids the Route Napoleon, with its steep descent into Roncevalles, entirely and which I understand is less difficult. Consider it.

Get poles and learn to use them. Watch a video or two on the internet and practice. It doesn't really take much to learn how to use them. I think you can be "well trained" with a few days, certainly with a few weeks, practice. I never heard of anyone stumbling over their poles on the Camino, but I've heard of lots of people who fell without them.

With poles you never have to lift one foot without having three other points of contact. In my opinion, they are a huge help, especially descending.

I never saw or heard of anyone needing to slide down on their backside and I don't think you need to plan for that.

Buen Camino!

Karl

 

[Icacos]

Sorry, there was one section that was impossible, in the conditions, to traverse in an upright position. It was a very short decline (just three or four feet) on the way up Alto de Perdón, yes, on the way up. The wooden steps had given way, and it was too steep and too muddy to negotiate on foot. My companion and I had no choice but to lower ourselves onto the adjacent vegetation and inch our way down ..... on our backsides. There was never any threat, though, of serious injury.

 

[CISSA69]

[QUOTyfarer, post: 269125, member: 3278"]The ones that spring to mind are the track down to Zubiri, from Alto de Pardon to Uterga, the track from Acebo down to Molinaseca, and as falcon said none of these require you to travel on your bum, just take it nice and easy. I would also recommend using hiking poles as these will help you with both up and downhill.
Buen Camino.[/QUOTE]
+ the last 200 m before Acebo, esp if it raining ....

 

[Icacos]

+ the last 200 m before Acebo, esp if it raining ....

Ah, yes, that interesting stretch .... It is quite steep, and I found it a bit trying particularly as it follows after that already seemingly interminable downhill from Cruz de Ferro. My stash of chocolate came in handy that day as a pick-me-up. But what a beautiful section of the Camino that is .... all the way down to Molinaseca.

 

[dougfitz]

With poles you never have to lift one foot without having three other points of contact. In my opinion, they are a huge help, especially descending.

It would be very clumsy to maintain three points of contact. With normal use, poles will give you an extra point of contact, ie two points of contact instead of one. If both poles are in contact, such as reaching forward with both poles going downhill for stability, there is some point where both poles have to be lifted, and neither of them in contact with the ground.

Otherwise, I agree with @kmrice, it is not difficult to learn to use poles correctly. One useful resource is Pete's Pole Page. Most importantly, learn to use the strap properly. It is the multiplier in technical pole design that makes the difference to just using an old-fashioned pole. By removing the need to grip the pole and transferring the 'push' point from the palm of the hand to the wrist, straps ensure that the pole is ready to protect you from slipping all the time.

 

[naplesdon]

Walking with poles is like...well, maybe like riding a bicycle; left, right, left, right! It is as elementary as putting one foot in front of the other. I don't think anyone is ever going to write a book "Sticks For Dummies." Above all the beauty of sticks is it allows one to distribute the load of your backpack to other extremities.

 

[ebrandt]

Hello, my wonderful new friends--

I have several months before I depart--I'll fly into Madrid 28 September--so I have a lot of time to lose some pesky kilos and do some training. I am very "trainable" and get fit quickly. I'm a naturally very muscular woman, and have faith in myself. I do have a few touchy parts of my body that I am going to be paying close attention to: a slightly bad back (which acts up when I over-exert, which I am concerned about), and feet that have suffered (achilles tendonitis and some other issue I've forgotten the name of).

But never mind! we ALL have our imperfections that we carry along. We do our best with them and learn to buffer them with analgesics, menthol rubs, special massages. No big deal!

My concern this morning is the downhills. While on Camino Frances, I'd love to know the very roughest downhills so I can anticipate them. I have seen a few of them detailed in the guidebooks, but I'd love to know from any of you. I am so slow on them. I hope I don't hold anyone behind me up.....I usually go downhill on my backside and go slow slow slowly.

Where am I going to struggle? please tell me about your most difficult parts, and how you traversed them.

Best---

Deb

I have a bad ankle and down is hard for me so I definitely understand your concerns. Nothing down hill on the Camino Frances was a problem for me even with my bad ankle. I want to stress that it was all OK!! But for me there were three days of down hill that had me thinking that if I had to go another kilometer down it might be an issue!

1. Out of Roncesvalles to Zuberi. This is not steep its just down hill all day long. And I was not yet in my best shape. I was fit, but...
2. Down from Alto de Perdon. This was not long but was a little bit steep. I think it sticks out to me because it was snowy when I walked and so I had to be careful about footing.
3. O'Cebriro to Molinaseca. This was the hard one for me. Down all day, lots of spots with loose scree on the surface. I was pretty wrecked when I got to Molinaseca -- the vino tinto that evening was especially welcome!

And I will conclude by saying that poles were a godsend for down hill. The helped me with balance and breaking impact on my ankle.

Liz

 

[cher99840]

I used poles and I often zig-zagged down to save my knees.

 

[annelise]

Sorry, there was one section that was impossible, in the conditions, to traverse in an upright position. It was a very short decline (just three or four feet) on the way up Alto de Perdón, yes, on the way up. The wooden steps had given way, and it was too steep and too muddy to negotiate on foot. My companion and I had no choice but to lower ourselves onto the adjacent vegetation and inch our way down ..... on our backsides. There was never any threat, though, of serious injury.

Ha, Icacos, I remember that very well - also negotiatiated that on my backside ...

annelise

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I am so appreciative for all of the suggestions and help. It feels so supportive to come here and check in, and I got exactly the information that I was looking for. I plan to carefully mark my guidebooks to indicate when I will have downhills. In preparation, I'm doing the following:
----Long hikes that incorporate uphills, down ills, and flat surfaces.
----I am using poles to hike with, and I'm good with them. Once, I fell with my wrist in the loop (I was skiing with poles), and think I nearly put an eye out, so I hesitate to use wrist loops, but would love to hear what you think.
--I'm going to be doing lots of core work for my abs (as suggested--and thank you) and quad sets for my legs. I also plan to do a lot of biking to increase my quad strength.

Thank you to all. I appreciate all of the expertise so much.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

so I hesitate to use wrist loops

When using trekking poles, your weight should be on the wrist strap. Your hands' role is to guide the pole plant. So, overcome your reluctance to use the straps, and us the poles correctly! Your hand muscles will be glad you did.

 

[DowtyCamino]

Somewhat off topic but the wrist "straps" that came with our poles practicaly forced you to use the poles correctly. They were so much easier to use than others I tried out. Ours were Komperdell Noric Walking poles with a "comfort strap". We only used one pole each.
What I liked best about the strap was that they clipped in and out of the pole, leaving a little glove like strap around your hand. Very handy for accessing things in your pack.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Sometimes people need to be reminded that this is a WALK, not a mountain hike.
For me, the steepest two places on the Camino were the last few k down into Roncesvalles and the last few k down into Zubiri, and those are only scary when the weather is wet.

 

[SYates]

Plan descends, and ascends, for the beginning of the day, not the end of the day. Use one or two walking sticks/poles. Look where you put your feet. Walk slowly and carefully. Bend your knees. Nothing else to it really. Buen Camino! SY

 

[cher99840]

Bend your knees. SY

Yes definitely bend knees. I forgot about that as it seems to come naturally to me.

 

[Former member 22438]

On some steep hills downwards beyond Pontevedra I noticed two German ladies zigzagging all the time. They told me it was the safest way to descent.
We adopted the method and must admit although it looks a bit weird , it was the best thing to do.

 

[Kanga]

@AugustCaminodeb it will be fine - I've got no depth perception (mono-vision) and crappy knees, but with poles don't have a problem with any of the downhills. When in doubt I zigzag. The only places I can think of where that is not possible is the descent into Zubriri and a tiny bit before El Acebo. Sometimes they require a little bit of clambering.

 

[cher99840]

Re Zubiri----
My notes for that days path challenges: "Hills and descents. A lot of pavement that would have been treacherous in wet weather."

In my notes for body condition report is
"--Feet burning on bottom but no sign of blisters
--both knees hurting.
--bruise on arm where I hit rock when I fell yesterday."

 

[Icacos]

I used poles and I often zig-zagged down to save my knees.

I agree that zig-zagging down a decline is a good idea. There is just one particular place on the Francés where I would definitely advise against it, and that is on the approach to Boadilla. Several kilometres before this town there is a wide, concrete path starting at the beginning of a long, steep decline that stretches off into the distance. It was obvious to my companions and me that cyclists love this hill, and we witnessed several of them going down at breakneck speed. You would not want to be zig-zagging in front of any of these over-enthusiastic sorts.

 

[CaminoKris2016]

The ones that spring to mind are the track down to Zubiri, from Alto de Pardon to Uterga, the track from Acebo down to Molinaseca, and as falcon said none of these require you to travel on your bum, just take it nice and easy. I would also recommend using hiking poles as these will help you with both up and downhill.
Buen Camino.

The downhills scared me too! I only walked up to Orrisson, I got myself into an anxious state and got a ride from Orrisson to Roncesvalle. I do regret that. I did the Zubiri decline becaue I had no idea. I was fortunate because at two of the steep inclines, I had myself three French Angels that helped me, or I would still be there! I ended my camino at Pamplona, because again, I was worried about going from Alto de Perdon.

I have a goal to do the Camino again in October 2016. Instead of avoiding these areas, I intend to walk them...however, I will be having my bag transported (eh...my camino, right?)

Kris

 

[LesBrass]

Hello - I'd agree with the three downhill sections mentioned already but there was also very small descent where I do remember considering going down on my bottom.

I'm trying to remember where it was and I think it was in the first hour or so of leaving Larrasoaña, walking along beside the river. There is a small steep descent that is actually a concrete path and it was wet, muddy and covered in leaves... I walked (shuffled) down beside the concrete in the remains of the muddy track but bottom shuffling was definitely one of my options.

Coming down from Zubiri I was overtaken by a priest and his friend and they were running down… he shouted back over his shoulder that it was much safer to do it his way!

Coming down from El Acebo and Molinasecca I almost went into meltdown… my nerves were shot and as we reached another steep section and I really felt like just sitting down and crying or stamping my feet and refusing to go on… I cannot tell you how happy I was to walk into Moleneseca that day!



But... I'd happily walk them all again so I guess it wasn't too bad after all.

 

[jastrace]

Use 2 walking poles, tighten your laces on the way down, ease them off when it flattens out. Take is easy. You'll be fine. Consider using a pack carry service on those days that are of concern for you (or all of them) to lighten the load on your back and kness and enable you to descend with your normal centre of gravity.

 

[Former member 22438]

Hello - I'd agree with the three downhill sections mentioned already but there was also very small descent where I do remember considering going down on my bottom.

I'm trying to remember where it was and I think it was in the first hour or so of leaving Larrasoaña, walking along beside the river. There is a small steep descent that is actually a concrete path and it was wet, muddy and covered in leaves... I walked (shuffled) down beside the concrete in the remains of the muddy track but bottom shuffling was definitely one of my options.

Coming down from Zubiri I was overtaken by a priest and his friend and they were running down… he shouted back over his shoulder that it was much safer to do it his way!

Coming down from El Acebo and Molinasecca I almost went into meltdown… my nerves were shot and as we reached another steep section and I really felt like just sitting down and crying or stamping my feet and refusing to go on… I cannot tell you how happy I was to walk into Moleneseca that day!

View attachment 16229

But... I'd happily walk them all again so I guess it wasn't too bad after all.

My goodness.... You need mountaineers tools here Ropes....hammers.....ascenders...pulleys.....etc.

For all of you I suggest to all who have problems with this.. Come to us in the Netherlands.. We have a trail ,540 kms long from the north to the south, called "het Pieterpad-(path of Peter) It is almost flat...the highest inclination is about 300 meters above sealevel and as some of you know a big part of the country is below sealevel so the only thing now and then you have to do is put your finger in the dike like our famous hero Hansje Brinkers did, who protected us against an enormous flood by sticking his finger into the protective dike so the water did not come in.. No bad knees...no mountaineering tools needed. only the risk of a sour finger...
A beautiful trail... Highly recommended....

 

[Icacos]

Coming down from Zubiri I was overtaken by a priest and his friend and they were running down… he shouted back over his shoulder that it was much safer to do it his way!

I've been trying to figure out the theory behind this technique, if indeed there is one. Or is it just a devil-may-care attitude? Hmmmmmm .............. that may not be the best expression to use with respect to a priest.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

My goodness.... You need mountaineers tools here Ropes....hammers.....ascenders...pulleys.....etc.

For all of you I suggest to all who have problems with this.. Come to us in the Netherlands.. We have a trail ,540 kms long from the north to the south, called "het Pieterpad-(path of Peter) It is almost flat...the highest inclination is about 300 meters above sealevel and as some of you know a big part of the country is below sealevel so the only thing now and then you have to do is put your finger in the dike like our famous hero Hansje Brinkers did, who protected us against an enormous flood by sticking his finger into the protective dike so the water did not come in.. No bad knees...no mountaineering tools needed. only the risk of a sour finger...
A beautiful trail... Highly recommended....

Ha ha! Very witty, you : )

Honestly, I have climbed mountains--Mt Hood, in Oregon; Mt. St. Helens, in Washington; I've climbed an active volcano in Brastaggi, Sumatra; I've also hiked parts of the PCT, and to the base of the middle Sister (of the Sisters mountains in Oregon).

With those climbs, I knew exactly what I was getting into; and part of that is asking, researching, and checking. I think that's half the fun, don't you?

 

[Former member 22438]

Ha ha! Very witty, you : )

Honestly, I have climbed mountains--Mt Hood, in Oregon; Mt. St. Helens, in Washington; I've climbed an active volcano in Brastaggi, Sumatra; I've also hiked parts of the PCT, and to the base of the middle Sister (of the Sisters mountains in Oregon).

With those climbs, I knew exactly what I was getting into; and part of that is asking, researching, and checking. I think that's half the fun, don't you?

I agree with you ! But looking at that picture I was really shocked... We Dutch are not used to it. Every day when we rise ,the first view to the horizon in the distance is for almost 10 miles or so.
I once hiked on the moon ( the north western part of Iceland ) which I liked very much but now I prefere the more smooth parts of the camino. Did the Portugese in 2013 and now preparing for another Portugese next May-along the coast... On that trail Saint James will be very kind to us..

Bom caminho .

 

[Former member 22438]

I've been trying to figure out the theory behind this technique, if indeed there is one. Or is it just a devil-may-care attitude? Hmmmmmm .............. that may not be the best expression to use with respect to a priest.

Isn't it called" run for the devil"technique ?

 

[Icacos]

Isn't it called" run for the devil"technique ?

Perhaps. Actually, when I posted this, I was thinking of the priest and his friend running in muddy and slushy conditions, which is what that section of the Camino was like when I went through. Running uphill and downhill on the trail, in good, dry conditions is not unusual al all. That I can understand. Still, I'd be interested in knowing what the conditions were like when those two went running through.

 

[Icacos]

Isn't it called" run for the devil"technique ?

Or was he running "like a bat out of hell?"

 

[NavyBlue]

When using trekking poles, your weight should be on the wrist strap.

Hello,

As far as I know, it is recommended not to use the straps in (steep) descents, in order to avoid injuries if you fall down. Just hold the handles. You can even hold the tip of the handle to gain some inches/cm.

 

[newfydog]

Hello,

As far as I know, it is recommended not to use the straps in (steep) descents, in order to avoid injuries if you fall down. Just hold the handles. You can even hold the tip of the handle to gain some inches/cm.

I could not disagree more. The straps let you reach out. At the start of a big downward step I don't even touch the grip, I just lean on the straps. You need to use the straps properly to do this.

I have seen skiers injure thumbs falling with poles but have yet to see that happen to a hiker. I have seen lots of hikers with no poles slip and fall on a descent though.

 

[kmrice]

Once, I fell with my wrist in the loop (I was skiing with poles), and think I nearly put an eye out, so I hesitate to use wrist loops, but would love to hear what you think.

Perhaps you were going a lot faster on skis? Walking is pretty slow; there is more time to be deliberate about how you proceed.

Sounds like you are in good shape and will be well trained. You'll be fine.

Have a great Camino.

Karl

 

[NavyBlue]

Let's say the jury is still out on this one, considering that :

• the pole tip may be blocked for some reason (stones, roots...). You would rotate, fall and/or get an arm or wrist injury due to your speed downwards if you cannot drop the pole instantaneously.
  
• In a descent in rather rough terrain (stones etc.), you have to direct your pole tips to the most adequate locations, which needs to hold the grips.

If the speed is really low, and the surface even, I would agree with newfydog's wiews. Just my two cents anyway.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

if you cannot drop the pole instantaneously

You can drop them instantly. You just cannot toss them four feet!

 

[jmcarp]

When using trekking poles, your weight should be on the wrist strap. Your hands' role is to guide the pole plant. So, overcome your reluctance to use the straps, and us the poles correctly! Your hand muscles will be glad you did.

Good advice, falcon. The experts at REI showed us how to properly use the poles, and they said essentially the same thing.

Also, I see a lot of people mentioning the descent from Roncevalles to Zubiri. I know it looks steep on the trail profile, but I must have been spaced out when I walked it because I have no recollection of it being particularly steep or a problem, just pretty much downhill all the way.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Good advice, falcon. The experts at REI showed us how to properly use the poles, and they said essentially the same thing.

As with all equipment, use judgement occasionally. For example, a backpack works best with the straps properly fastened and adjusted. However, if you are going to ford a stream, it is wise to undo all the buckles and straps, so that you can shed the pack quickly if you fall and start to drown.

On some rock scrambles, it may be prudent to remove the wrist straps while navigating a section of the terrain. It doesn't mean that your weight should not be carried on the straps when normally using the poles. It only means that you have used a bit of situational wisdom.

 

[dougfitz]

Hello,

As far as I know, it is recommended not to use the straps in (steep) descents, in order to avoid injuries if you fall down. Just hold the handles. You can even hold the tip of the handle to gain some inches/cm.

I have been using technical trekking poles for over a decade, and reading the readily available research. I have never seen such a recommendation from an informed source. Perhaps you can point us to the source of this recommendation, or establish its context.

 

[dougfitz]

the pole tip may be blocked for some reason (stones, roots...). You would rotate, fall and/or get an arm or wrist injury due to your speed downwards if you cannot drop the pole instantaneously.

I have been in the situation where my pole tip as been snagged, and it is easier to 'drop' the pole when you aren't holding onto the hand grip tightly, and just pull the pole out with the strap.

We are talking about normal walking. If you are going so fast down a slope where this is likely to happen, it seems to me that you might be going unreasonably fast given all the circumstances. That sounds like thrill seeking to me, not normal walking, and if you take those risks there are going to be unpleasant consequences when something does not go perfectly.

I have used poles to assist in doing very fast descents. I have found it needs a good eye for both the immediate section of the track, as well as being able to look ahead far enough to choose a good line. This includes detecting when to slow down to negotiate tricky bits where even a good line has obstacles that would be dangerous taken at speed. Its not a technique I would contemplate using in day-to-day walking on the camino.

In a descent in rather rough terrain (stones etc.), you have to direct your pole tips to the most adequate locations, which needs to hold the grips.

No. It is completely unnecessary to hold onto the grip. It is quite easy to guide the tip with just a gentle touch with the fingers, thumb or palm of the hand. There is absolutely no need to hold onto the hand grip, it can be left loose.

 

[NavyBlue]

I have been using technical trekking poles for over a decade, and reading the readily available research. I have never seen such a recommendation from an informed source. Perhaps you can point us to the source of this recommendation, or establish its context.

I bumped into this recommendation decades ago, but you can find sources such as :
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/hiking_poles_technique.html#.UcLaufmG1s4
(technique 8 - technique 2, alternate hold)

http://sectionhiker.com/reader-poll-do-you-use-trekking-pole-straps/
a discussion. Maybe a (loose) consensus about the risks in rough terrain.

http://blog.cimalp.fr/comment-choisir-ses-batons-randonnee-les-utiliser/
in french, with some interesting pictures
En descente : Downhill - Take off the straps and hold your sticks by the grip or with your palm on the top of the grip. Thus you will avoid injuring your wrist or your shoulder in case you slip or fall.

http://www.lerelaisdesjacobins.fr/la marche et les batons.htm
in french too, by Serge, the owner of the (appreciated) "Relais des Jacobins" in Cahors
Line 26 and further : La dragonne n'est pas du tout nécessaire [...] The strap is not necessary and I advise not to use it : sooner or later you will block the tip of your pole in a strong hole and if you are in some descent or carried by your momentum, you will lose your balance. Even if you don't tear your arm off, I bet you will fall down. Not what you are looking for. It happened to me : I don't use the straps any longer, I prefer to drop my stick ! The rounded grip tops are very useful in descents and you put your stick in the palm of your hand in order to really support your weight and "block" your momentum, long before your feet.

As Serge concludes :
But the good practice is the one you will chose as, on the chemin, the good way of walking is mostly the one which fits you.

 

[dougfitz]

I bumped into this recommendation decades ago, but you can find sources such as :
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/hiking_poles_technique.html#.UcLaufmG1s4
(technique 8 - technique 2, alternate hold)

http://sectionhiker.com/reader-poll-do-you-use-trekking-pole-straps/
a discussion. Maybe a (loose) consensus about the risks in rough terrain.

http://blog.cimalp.fr/comment-choisir-ses-batons-randonnee-les-utiliser/
in french, with some interesting pictures
En descente : Downhill - Take off the straps and hold your sticks by the grip or with your palm on the top of the grip. Thus you will avoid injuring your wrist or your shoulder in case you slip or fall.

http://www.lerelaisdesjacobins.fr/la marche et les batons.htm
in french too, by Serge, the owner of the (appreciated) "Relais des Jacobins" in Cahors
Line 26 and further : La dragonne n'est pas du tout nécessaire [...] The strap is not necessary and I advise not to use it : sooner or later you will block the tip of your pole in a strong hole and if you are in some descent or carried by your momentum, you will lose your balance. Even if you don't tear your arm off, I bet you will fall down. Not what you are looking for. It happened to me : I don't use the str aps any longer, I prefer to drop my stick ! The rounded grip tops are very useful in descents and you put your stick in the palm of your hand in order to really support your weight and "block" your momentum, long before your feet.

As Serge concludes :
But the good practice is the one you will chose as, on the chemin, the good way of walking is mostly the one which fits you.

Thank you.

I think the backpackinglight link is a very useful. The palm on top of the pole technique they describe leaves the strap in place. I have used this myself for short steep sections where I have be too lazy to lengthen my poles, but it is far from ideal for long descents, and my view is that it is better to adjust the pole length and use the straps correctly then.

I could engage in a reasoned debate why I think that the second link is a far from useful and doesn't present a valid case. Suffice to say that it is a badly constructed straw poll with a biased, rather than neutral, question. More, a quick scan of the responses shows a strong bias to downhill skiing accidents, and not to accidents that might have occurred during normal walking.

The two French language resources were interesting. I am sure the first by a mountain guide contains much valuable advice if that is what you want to do, but doesn't seem particularly applicable for the camino.

The final resource didn't translate well, but in relation to the comment you quote, 'But the good practice is the one you will chose ...', it appears one needs to read the preceding section to understand the author appears to be suggesting people try different pacing techniques, and is not a recommendation about strap use.

I know the author does recommend earlier in the text not using the straps at all. What I would say to that is that you might as well buy a nice wooden pole for a few euro, because you would have removed one of the major innovations that give trekking poles a technical advantage over the simple pole. Clearly, I don't agree with his recommendation here, but there is plenty of other good advice about pole use on the camino.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I am so glad for this wealth of knowledge and information. Thanks so much.

 

[Sheilajg]

after a week on the Camino Frances, I found scissors and happily cut the straps off my hiking poles! I now use them all the time for hiking and snowshoeing without the straps. I hiked a portion of the Lycian Way in Turkey and on Madiera Island that way as well. There are LOTS of steep ascents and descents on those hikes. So, as with the Camino, everyone has their own way that works for them. My preference is that hikers use the rubber tips on the poles. They help with grip an are much quieter.

 

[newfydog]

http://blog.cimalp.fr/comment-choisir-ses-batons-randonnee-les-utiliser/

En descente : Downhill - Take off the straps and hold your sticks by the grip or with your palm on the top of the grip. Thus you will avoid injuring your wrist or your shoulder in case you slip or fall.
.

But, but, what if you slip and can't grab the grip fast enough and poke your eye out hitting the grip as you crash and burn?

For a different opinion, check out http://ohgoodgriefstopbeingparanoidandjustusethestraps

 

[Lisa Davila]

Hello, my wonderful new friends--

I have several months before I depart--I'll fly into Madrid 28 September--so I have a lot of time to lose some pesky kilos and do some training. I am very "trainable" and get fit quickly. I'm a naturally very muscular woman, and have faith in myself. I do have a few touchy parts of my body that I am going to be paying close attention to: a slightly bad back (which acts up when I over-exert, which I am concerned about), and feet that have suffered (achilles tendonitis and some other issue I've forgotten the name of).

But never mind! we ALL have our imperfections that we carry along. We do our best with them and learn to buffer them with analgesics, menthol rubs, special massages. No big deal!

My concern this morning is the downhills. While on Camino Frances, I'd love to know the very roughest downhills so I can anticipate them. I have seen a few of them detailed in the guidebooks, but I'd love to know from any of you. I am so slow on them. I hope I don't hold anyone behind me up.....I usually go downhill on my backside and go slow slow slowly.

Where am I going to struggle? please tell me about your most difficult parts, and how you traversed them.

Best---

Deb

OMG! Deb, I have the exact same concerns about downhills! My original plan was to go to Spain next year but can't wait and have moved my trip to end of this August! By the way, I live in Tigard!

 

[CaminoDebrita]

OMG! Deb, I have the exact same concerns about downhills! My original plan was to go to Spain next year but can't wait and have moved my trip to end of this August! By the way, I live in Tigard!

Ha ha! I loved getting your note! Seriously, there are many aspects of the Camino that I don't worry about. I don't worry about getting lost; I don't worry about getting eaten by vultures (or other large carrion birds), although I perhaps should!; I don't worry about communal living (I can buy my way out of that if the cacophony of snoring gets to me); I don't worry about having to find a bush (although this middle-aged gal has a bladder the size of a marble).

But downhills? Not great at this. I can climb all day, and have been up mountains.

It's a little annoying when people (ahem, you know who you are!) post nonexistent url's advising me that my fears are silly. And, by the way, I have injured myself with hand straps, but am getting over that and using them now--and am using my Black Diamond Z Poles on longer hikes often.

It is a valid concern, and this site is not a place to diminish other people's--especially mature adults--concerns about the Camino. I have found it a supportive, intelligent forum with great discussions and many voices chiming in! I really appreciate it, and am so glad that you are going this year! So sorry I won't see you on the trail, Lisa! I am putting off departure until the last weekend in September, as my stepdaughter is getting married and we are planning (and then celebrating) a very important wedding.

I will continue my hikes and practice those downhills, lose weight, and strengthen my quads and core!

 

[Kerstinh47]

There are many more experienced and savvy walkers/hikers on here than I - still, I am compelled to add my voice. Roncesvalles to Zubiri brought me to tears. Steady, steady, steady downhill. I felt that day that every single pilgrim save for me knew what they were doing
Also true for the descent from Mt Alto Perdon - but I knew more about my body and perhaps more importantly, my courage by then. That one is also over before long - perhaps 1/2 a kilometer? It had rained when I descended, there was a small stream going down with us - and I found myself so concerned about another pilgrim that I made sure to stay not too far from her lest she get into trouble.
Taking one's time was the answer for me - careful and steady.
You'll more than likely be just fine!

 

[jmcarp]

...
Taking one's time was the answer for me - careful and steady.
...

That's the answer for most of us as well. It's easy to forget that you're not in a race, especially when you see so many others passing you.

 

[Al the optimist]

I have to say I hate the paved steps going down to Zubiri when it is wet.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I have two spots for you to avoid on el Camino del Norte: one is leaving the Zenarruza monastery - on my hinie!, and coming down El Brusco - first on my knees to make it up (I'm 5'4'') and then on my hinie. I don't think the monastery way is avoidable, but El Brusco is, just go around it by road.

In all my walks this was the one time where I felt I was putting my life at risk. Had one of my poles let go, I was going backwards into emptiness for 100 meters or so. They don't even have a rope there in case you do trip and fall. Lovely view though.