Is a fluorescent jacket needed for dark early morning safety?

jostony

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My brother has just walked the Camino Ingles which I will start on 1st October. he has told me that we are not allowed to walk in the dark without a light AND fluorescent jacket or you will get an 80 euro fine. They therefore started their walks at sunrise around 8.30.

Where can I buy this fluorescent jacket in UK?
 
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Bradypus

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Where can I buy this fluorescent jacket in UK?
Almost any Poundland, Home Bargains or similar. For more sturdy versions try Screwfix or Toolstation. A hi-viz vest with reflective strips will do the job. Look amongst the motoring or cycling accessories. Light and cheap.
 
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mspath

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Throughout most of Europe reflective vests are generally sold in large gas stations. Inexpensive and lightweight they are always available in stops which cater to long distance truckers such as the routiers in France....Wear them wherever you may be walking .

For more on reflective vests see this earlier Forum thread https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/reflective-vests.38005/
 
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Felice

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we are not allowed to walk in the dark without a light AND fluorescent jacket or you will get an 80 euro fine.

I was going to ask for clarification but did some googling instead, and yes, it is a requirement. Sensible for anyone walking along a road in the dark.

HOWEVER, does anyone know of any time when it has been enforced? Is it a bit like the requirement for all bikes in the UK to have lights, which is widely ignored in the town where my son lives.
 
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I just had an idea! I have some very thin camping cord that is fluorescent and am going to tie several cords on different sides of the pack and I have some tape on my hiking poles and already have some cord on my trail runners that helps me identify my runners in albergues - that should light up nicely as any cars come along and weighs nothing at all and can also be used to attach any drying items like socks on my pack if needed!
 
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t2andreo

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If you put a stripe of fluorescent tape on each section of your hiking pole, you have a very handy safety and signaling device. When road walking facing oncoming traffic, vehicles will usually have their headlights on. The several reflective stripes on your poles should light up to the oncoming driver.

But one REALLY good idea I picked up over the years is to swing the pole in your right hand, from the strap around your wrist in an arc from left to right. To the oncoming driver, it appears like whirling reflective stripes - and MUCH more visible that merely stationary stripes.

Hope this helps.

Tom
 
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Bradypus

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Also, are you saying it doesn't get light until 8:30 a.m.?
At the moment sunrise on the Camino Ingles is about 08:20 although there will be useful twilight for some time before that. In midwinter it can still be too dark to see the yellow arrows with confidence at 8am or even a little later.
 
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trecile

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Also, are you saying it doesn't get light until 8:30 a.m.?
That's about right. Remember that Spain is really in the wrong time zone. They should be in the same time zone as Portugal, where sunrise is at about 7:30 am right now.

Here's info on sunrise/sunset in Santiago

 
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My brother has just walked the Camino Ingles which I will start on 1st October. he has told me that we are not allowed to walk in the dark without a light AND fluorescent jacket or you will get an 80 euro fine. They therefore started their walks at sunrise around 8.30.

Where can I buy this fluorescent jacket in UK?
This is news to me. Does it just apply to the Camino Ingles, or to all routes in Galicia, or all routes in Spain? Is it for any portion of the walk or only when one is walking alongside roads? I ask this as someone who often starts walking before sunrise (in June/July/August to avoid heat and in October because sunrise is later) and has never worn a fluorescent jacket and never considered the possibility I might be faced with an 80 euro fine.
 
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Bradypus

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This is news to me. Does it just apply to the Camino Ingles, or to all routes in Galicia, or all routes in Spain?
Applies all over Spain apparently. When walking along public roads. Part of the General Traffic regulations. "Outside the town, between sunset and sunrise or in meteorological or environmental conditions that significantly reduce visibility, every pedestrian, when traveling on the road or shoulder, must be equipped with an approved luminous or retroreflective element." This is what the General Traffic Regulations explain, and non-compliance could result in a fine of up to 100 euros .
 

dougfitz

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That's about right. Remember that Spain is really in the wrong time zone. They should be in the same time zone as Portugal, where sunrise is at about 7:30 am right now.

Here's info on sunrise/sunset in Santiago

Another useful resource is Suncalc, here. The link is set up for Ferrol on 21 Dec, when sunrise is not until 09:03. It will give you a limited set of astronomical data when it opens up, but there is a link in the data box that will open up a full set of the twilight times, not just dawn and dusk.
 
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dougfitz

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I know that forum members have discussed taping their poles or other approaches like hanging things off their pack, but it seems clear that the requirement is to wear an reflective vest. I doubt very much that any of the other solutions proposed here would go anywhere near meeting the minimum requirements for the size of either the background materiel or retroreflective elements required of the EU standard. There is a short discussion of these here.

And as for the suggestion from @t2andreo that one could walk like some drum major twirling my poles in the air, I think I'll continue to focus on using them to help me walk :)
 
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Felice

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I know that forum members have discussed taping their poles or other approaches like hanging things off their pack, but it seems clear that the requirement is to wear an reflective vest. I doubt very much that any of the other solutions proposed here would go anywhere near meeting the minimum requirements for the size of either the background materiel or retroreflective elements required of the EU standard. There is a short discussion of these here.
I'm wondering how much use a reflective vest would be from behind if you are wearing a rucksack. Better to have a reflective pack cover.
From the front is a different matter.
 

Bradypus

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I'm wondering how much use a reflective vest would be from behind if you are wearing a rucksack. Better to have a reflective pack cover.
From the front is a different matter.
In general you should be walking on the side of the road facing towards oncoming traffic. In Spain that means on the left. So the principal concern is to make yourself visible to vehicles approaching from in front of you. But a high visibility pack cover is also a useful thing to have. Mine are bright yellow or orange.
 

dougfitz

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I'm wondering how much use a reflective vest would be from behind if you are wearing a rucksack. Better to have a reflective pack cover.
From the front is a different matter.
True, but as already suggested, walking on the correct side of the road and facing on-coming traffic are also sensible precautions if one is walking in the dark.

I haven't walked in Spain in the dark very often, but elsewhere when I have had to do so, I have attached a red flashing light to the back of my pack. While many packs do have small patches of retroreflective material, I doubt they are sufficiently large for them to be easily visible at any great distance.

All that said, when I have left an albergue early, I have gotten off the road or shoulder as soon as possible and used the footpath or other tracks. It is not always possible to do this, but often was.
 
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A vest like this would probably work over a backpack. The sides are open with some kind of strap linking them which could be replaced with ties. It's made of mesh, which would keep it lightweight.

Screenshot_20230922_125738_Firefox.jpg

Screenshot_20230922_130211_Firefox.jpg
 
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J Willhaus

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Stay safe out there, Pilgrims! My hiking pants (Duluth Flexpedition) have a reflective hem I can reveal by rolling up the cuff a couple of inches. My pack also has reflective markings and I agree with @dougfitz that the LED flashers you can buy are inexpensive and add another measure of visualization. I used to wear the LED lights when walking to work on a pedestrian-bicyclist shared path. It is dark in the Spanish winter. We never made pilgrims leave in December before there was enough light to see (at least 8:30 or so), but some hospitaleros want you out the door no later than 8 a.m. no matter what!

edit: I also still have a couple of reflective belts from my days in the army which would easily wrap around a backpack.
 
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And as for the suggestion from @t2andreo that one could walk like some drum major twirling my poles in the air, I think I'll continue to focus on using them to help me walk :)
You know I just re-watched the movie The Way last weekend and there is a short snippet of all of the four of them trying to twirl their walking sticks like drum majors.🎺🥁
 

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we are not allowed to walk in the dark without a light AND fluorescent jacket or you will get an 80 euro fine.

I was going to ask for clarification but did some googling instead, and yes, it is a requirement. Sensible for anyone walking along a road in the dark.

HOWEVER, does anyone know of any time when it has been enforced? Is it a bit like the requirement for all bikes in the UK to have lights, which is widely ignored in the town where my son lives.
Or bells on bikes! Thought this a european law but cyclists on camino seldom use them!
 
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Or bells on bikes! Thought this a european law but cyclists on camino seldom use them!
Well it all depends upon who the cyclist is and the type of bell. I replaced the original dull bell with one with a loud ring sound. I would usually ring it 4 or 5 times as I approached a group of walking pilgrims. Some would turn and move over. More than a few had their ear buds music so loud they would not have heard a jumbo jet.
 

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I know that forum members have discussed taping their poles or other approaches like hanging things off their pack, but it seems clear that the requirement is to wear an reflective vest. I doubt very much that any of the other solutions proposed here would go anywhere near meeting the minimum requirements for the size of either the background materiel or retroreflective elements required of the EU standard. There is a short discussion of these here.

And as for the suggestion from @t2andreo that one could walk like some drum major twirling my poles in the air, I think I'll continue to focus on using them to help me walk :)

Tend to agree @dougfitz .
Whilst I love my current reflective safety measures (tape on poles etc) I'll be taking a vest next time I think.
Particularly as I'm now a lover of pre-dawn starts :rolleyes:
 
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Apart from the sensible Hi viz vest and Hi vis back pack cove. Heald light a ns hand torch. How safe is it to walk at night from Morgade to Las De Rei Many thanks Bernard
You are on a country lane at least part of the way and part of the way on foot paths. It isn't a superhighway, but there certainly cars where people are traveling to and from their homes on the country lanes.
 

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I just had an idea! I have some very thin camping cord that is fluorescent and am going to tie several cords on different sides of the pack and I have some tape on my hiking poles and already have some cord on my trail runners that helps me identify my runners in albergues - that should light up nicely as any cars come along and weighs nothing at all and can also be used to attach any drying items like socks on my pack if needed!
A vest like this would probably work over a backpack. The sides are open with some kind of strap linking them which could be replaced with ties. It's made of mesh, which would keep it lightweight.

View attachment 156936

View attachment 156937
That’s what we had to wear for Hood to Coast Relay night stages. Works great for caminos as well.
 
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aswansonsr

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My brother has just walked the Camino Ingles which I will start on 1st October. he has told me that we are not allowed to walk in the dark without a light AND fluorescent jacket or you will get an 80 euro fine. They therefore started their walks at sunrise around 8.30.

Where can I buy this fluorescent jacket in UK?
Reflective Tape generously
 
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David61

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This is excellent information. Thanks to the OP. Just a couple of clarifications, though. I imagine this only applies if you're walking on the shoulder of a public road. Also, are you saying it doesn't get light until 8:30 a.m.?
The reason for this oddity is in 1940 a troublesome man from Austria via Germany travelled to the Spanish border and asked General Franco to join his efforts to rule the world. Having just gone through a terrible civil war General Franco declined but said he would set Spanish time the same as Berlin "in solidarity"
 

JesperK

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we are not allowed to walk in the dark without a light AND fluorescent jacket or you will get an 80 euro fine.

I was going to ask for clarification but did some googling instead, and yes, it is a requirement. Sensible for anyone walking along a road in the dark.

HOWEVER, does anyone know of any time when it has been enforced? Is it a bit like the requirement for all bikes in the UK to have lights, which is widely ignored in the town where my son lives.
Try to ignore the law about lights in Denmark - the police love giving out fines for that exact violation. In fact - we have multiple laws concerning bikes.
 

Marbe2

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I know that forum members have discussed taping their poles or other approaches like hanging things off their pack, but it seems clear that the requirement is to wear an reflective vest. I doubt very much that any of the other solutions proposed here would go anywhere near meeting the minimum requirements for the size of either the background materiel or retroreflective elements required of the EU standard. There is a short discussion of these here.

And as for the suggestion from @t2andreo that one could walk like some drum major twirling my poles in the air, I think I'll continue to focus on using them to help me walk :)
We have done a lot of early morning, pitch black walking on paths and woods. We wear bright LED headlamps. With a pack, the vest really does not help much from the back as any decent size pack covers most of it. Since we face on coming cars/trucks when walking, it does really help with on coming traffic, especially since the headlamp enhances the visibility of the vest. In addition I put a small strip of fluorescent tape on my pack for insurance. Some mornings can also be foggy too. So if you are walking in the dark any visibility enhancements are in one’s best interest!
 
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dougfitz

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We have done a lot of early morning, pitch black walking on paths and woods. We wear bright LED headlamps. With a pack, the vest really does not help much from the back as any decent size pack covers most of it. Since we face on coming cars/trucks when walking, it does really help with on coming traffic, especially since the headlamp enhances the visibility of the vest. In addition I put a small strip of fluorescent tape on my pack for insurance. Some mornings can also be foggy too. So if you are walking in the dark any visibility enhancements are in one’s best interest!
When I have felt it necessary to use a vest, I have hung it over the back of my pack, and faced the on-coming traffic. I also have lights fore and aft. I suspect most of us know it is always going to be a compromise. Like others I avoid road walking before sunrise wherever possible, but there have been times when I've left an albergue a good hour before dawn in the springtime when dawn was close to 8:00 am and civil twilight half an hour earlier.
 
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