Le Puy or Arles via the Via Francigena?

[John R McLean]

Planning is progressing! After reading Rogers blog, it looks like the Via Francigena from Calais but it poses three new options. 1) Turn right at Geneva to Le Puy route? 2) Go over the St Bernard Pass and carry on to Rome and beyond? 3) Go over the pass and turn right to Arles route?
Arles vs Le Puy opinions? Routes out of Rome to continue south? (My end destination is Casablanca)
Considerations: If I head toward Santiago and down, I'd like to take the Camino Del Norte so Le Puy makes sense?
I feel like going over the St Bernard Pass would be incredible but I'm not sure if it would be worth going over and then turn around to make my way back to the Le Puy route or just carry on to the Arles.
Sorry....I'm rambling. Any opinions are welcome. Cheers!

 

[Bradypus]

Having walked from Canterbury to Rome via the Grand Saint Bernard pass I can certainly agree that it is a worthwhile journey. Can't help feeling that it is a very odd way to get to Casablanca though Or even to get to Spain. If you did decide to continue south through Italy would your plan be to cross to north Africa and walk through Algeria? Personally I would hesitate to do that given the current political climate. A new Italian website gives good information on Italian paths if you do decide to try that: http://www.turismo.beniculturali.it/en/cammini/

Any reason why you want to take the Via Francigena in particular rather than a more direct route from Calais through central or western France? Several options to choose from. This website makes a good job of presenting some possibilities: https://www.caminoadventures.com/camino-routes-in-france/ Walking from my home in Wales I crossed to St Malo, took river and canal towpaths to the Atlantic and eventually reached Bayonne via the Voie Littoral. Not all along signposted routes but who says you have to stick to those?

 

[John R McLean]

Having walked from Canterbury to Rome via the Grand Saint Bernard pass I can certainly agree that it is a worthwhile journey. Can't help feeling that it is a very odd way to get to Casablanca though Or even to get to Spain. If you did decide to continue south through Italy would your plan be to cross to north Africa and walk through Algeria? Personally I would hesitate to do that given the current political climate. A new Italian website gives good information on Italian paths if you do decide to try that: http://www.turismo.beniculturali.it/en/cammini/

Any reason why you want to take the Via Francigena in particular rather than a more direct route from Calais through central or western France? Several options to choose from. This website makes a good job of presenting some possibilities: https://www.caminoadventures.com/camino-routes-in-france/ Walking from my home in Wales I crossed to St Malo, took river and canal towpaths to the Atlantic and eventually reached Bayonne via the Voie Littoral. Not all along signposted routes but who says you have to stick to those?

Why Via Francigena? Well... I'm actually starting on the Isle of Iona and crossing Scotland, then down through England to Calais, not a real direct route for sure. I was originally looking at going from Calais to Amsterdam and through Germany to Prague but after reading Roger's blog I decided to take the via Francigena with side trips to some of the places along the way. So direct route is not that important. Which is why I would even consider going over the St Bernard Pass only to turn around and go back to join Le Puy route. I've done the Camino Frances from SJPD so that is why I want to do Camino Del Norte. From Santiago I plan to do Via de Plata to Seville, Cadiz, Gibraltar, Tarifa, Casablanca.....but now this Rome option is intriguing but where to go from there to get back on track. I'm not comfortable going from Tunis to Casablanca. I'm toying with ideas about Rome to Sicily then ferry to Sardinia eventually to Barcelona and across to Santiago and resume the way south. So yes there is a bit of a 3 option cross roads as I get to Lausanne/Geneva.
Cheers!

 

[Pei2spain]

John.......you really sound like you know what you are doing, so please don't take this question as criticism, I just really want to know the answer.......is there a limit to the amount of time we Canadians can stay in Europe without returning home? It sounds like you are going to be there for a looooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg time!! Thanks!

 

[Purple Backpack]

Starting in Iona is a marvelous idea. Has anyone done this?

As far as the journey, what is the destination? Rome, Santiago de Compostela or Jerusalem? This may be one of the times when the end justifies the means of getting there.

 

[Doogman]

The question above about spending time in the Schengen region in Europe is a good one. From what I initially learned from this Forum, Canadians are restricted to 90 days in the region within any 180 day period. Hopefully John would be travelling on some type of European passport.

 

[Kitsambler]

@JohnR:

Canadians are restricted to 90 days in the region within any 180 day period.

The time spent walking across the length of the UK from Iona to Dover would not count against this, since the UK is not in the Schengen zone.

What about this:
1) Iona to Dover (time unlimited)
2) Calais to Santiago (90 days allowed) (take the coastal route through St Malo and Bayonne?)
3) 90 day break - either in Canada or the UK
4) Santiago to Gibralter to Casablanca (only the Santiago to Gibralter section counts towards the next 90 days)
5) Ferry from Casablanca to Sicily (I'm assuming there is such a thing)
6) Sicily to Rome (counts towards the second 90 days)

 

[John R McLean]

John.......you really sound like you know what you are doing, so please don't take this question as criticism, I just really want to know the answer.......is there a limit to the amount of time we Canadians can stay in Europe without returning home? It sounds like you are going to be there for a looooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg time!! Thanks!

No worries! Well seeing as we are Canadians there happens to be a little pain in the butt called "Schengen" which means legally we can only stay 90 days in 180 day period. In the Schengen zone (UK is not included) This is not great for us backpackers wanting to just land and keep walking. There are options, one of which is my mother was born in England so I'm looking at getting a UK passport. I'll be working on options over the next while to try to ensure I can do it legally.

 

[SYates]

I see your plans are for 2019, so you will have plenty of time to sort the "legalities" out, but yes, you would need an European passport or some sort of long term visa to walk this pilgrimage "in one go" ;-) In case you don't now it this http://www.jakobswege-europa.de/wege/ is a handy overview if lot of info (use Google translate if you don't speak German ;-) on the sub-pages.

As somebody who has done a few long distance pilgrimages, here a few biased tips:

Life becomes so much easier if you speak at least some of the languages of the countries you pass through. You already speak English and ?perhaps? French. In Germany you will get along fine with English and in Spain people are used to pilgrims needs as long as you stick to the official Caminos (if you go off-Camino they really get confused why you are not walking an official Camino as a pilgrim). So Italian would be my suggestion to learn, especially if you plan to knock from time to time at parish/monastery doors in search of accommodation ;-) Duolingo.com is a great, free site to get the basics of languages.

Routes: The closer to you stick to "known" pilgrimage routes, even the lesser frequented ones, the more likely people will help you (see above). Plus you get to enjoy the historic feeling of walking in the steps of thousands and thousands that have walked before you. So why not go: Iona>Canterbury, then via the classic Via Francigena to Rome (perhaps via Assisi) walk back the VF until around Lucca, walk the coast to Arles and then you are in firm pilgrimage territory. Once you hit Puente la Reina you can decide how you want to "manage" Spain. You could walk from Puente la Reina to Santo Domingo de la Calzada and then up (reverse direction) the Tunel de San Adrian route to hit the Camino del Norte or you could continue on the Camino Frances (mainly depending on the time of the year).

From Santiago south there is a) the Via de Plata and b) the Caminos Portugues (perhaps via Fatima, Santiago to Fatima is way marked).

Equipment: Unless you are very well off and can stay in paid accommodation each night I guess you will need a tent/bivak. If you need tips for buying one, I can provide them ;-) Also, there will be many days where there simply isn't any paid accommodation available ... As for backpack weight, on long distance pilgrimages my backpack weights typically <13kg, including food and water.

Hope that helps, SY

 

[John R McLean]

Starting in Iona is a marvelous idea. Has anyone done this?

As far as the journey, what is the destination? Rome, Santiago de Compostela or Jerusalem? This may be one of the times when the end justifies the means of getting there.

My goal is to arrive in Casablanca via Santiago and or Rome. I have 1 year laid out to complete it. Once my route is set, I will then apply rest days to the calendar and see how it shakes out.

 

[John R McLean]

I see your plans are for 2019, so you will have plenty of time to sort the "legalities" out, but yes, you would need an European passport or some sort of long term visa to walk this pilgrimage "in one go" ;-) In case you don't now it this http://www.jakobswege-europa.de/wege/ is a handy overview if lot of info (use Google translate if you don't speak German ;-) on the sub-pages.

As somebody who has done a few long distance pilgrimages, here a few biased tips:

Life becomes so much easier if you speak at least some of the languages of the countries you pass through. You already speak English and ?perhaps? French. In Germany you will get along fine with English and in Spain people are used to pilgrims needs as long as you stick to the official Caminos (if you go off-Camino they really get confused why you are not walking an official Camino as a pilgrim). So Italian would be my suggestion to learn, especially if you plan to knock from time to time at parish/monastery doors in search of accommodation ;-) Duolingo.com is a great, free site to get the basics of languages.

Routes: The closer to you stick to "known" pilgrimage routes, even the lesser frequented ones, the more likely people will help you (see above). Plus you get to enjoy the historic feeling of walking in the steps of thousands and thousands that have walked before you. So why not go: Iona>Canterbury, then via the classic Via Francigena to Rome (perhaps via Assisi) walk back the VF until around Lucca, walk the coast to Arles and then you are in firm pilgrimage territory. Once you hit Puente la Reina you can decide how you want to "manage" Spain. You could walk from Puente la Reina to Santo Domingo de la Calzada and then up (reverse direction) the Tunel de San Adrian route to hit the Camino del Norte or you could continue on the Camino Frances (mainly depending on the time of the year).

From Santiago south there is a) the Via de Plata and b) the Caminos Portugues (perhaps via Fatima, Santiago to Fatima is way marked).

Equipment: Unless you are very well off and can stay in paid accommodation each night I guess you will need a tent/bivak. If you need tips for buying one, I can provide them ;-) Also, there will be many days where there simply isn't any paid accommodation available ... As for backpack weight, on long distance pilgrimages my backpack weights typically <13kg, including food and water.

Hope that helps, SY

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a helpful reply. I have lists upon lists of things to complete, which include language skills, gear comparisons and dicision analysis such as bivy vs tent!
I have over a year to organize and fine tune my route and the "legalities" but it will go by quickly. Before I know it, I will be retired and put boots to the ground.
I am really finding this group very helpful and the many links and tips that send my typing down another Google or link haha. Planning is such a big part of fun! I'm sure we will be talking much more over the next year.
Cheers!
John

 

[John R McLean]

@JohnR:

The time spent walking across the length of the UK from Iona to Dover would not count against this, since the UK is not in the Schengen zone.

What about this:
1) Iona to Dover (time unlimited)
2) Calais to Santiago (90 days allowed) (take the coastal route through St Malo and Bayonne?)
3) 90 day break - either in Canada or the UK
4) Santiago to Gibralter to Casablanca (only the Santiago to Gibralter section counts towards the next 90 days)
5) Ferry from Casablanca to Sicily (I'm assuming there is such a thing)
6) Sicily to Rome (counts towards the second 90 days)

Yes, options like these are being laid out just in case I can't get things sorted to allow my to through hike the whole way in one go. I have very close relatives in the UK so that is a real option for a 90 day break. I could also fly out to another part of the world to ramble for the 90. Not ideal but doable.

 

[Kitsambler]

options

Another, if you are not obsessing about always going in the same direction, is to flip-flop:
1) Calais to Santiago (90 days Schengen)
2) Iona to Dover (90 days break, non-Schengen, see your friends/family, do genealogy research)
3)Santiago to Casablanca

 

[SYates]

Just remembered: Canterbury Cathedral used to have/issue their own Credencial and stamp, might be worth inquiring if they still do.

To read: Try to get a copy of Ben Nimmo's book "Pilgrim Snail", he walked, long time ago, from Canterbury to Santiago with a trombone to raise money for charity. It is not only a great read, but also full of insights and some practical gems. It is out of print, but you might be able to pick up a second hand copy "somewhere".

Bivak versus tent: A bivak is great if you only want to camp occasionally, if it will be your main home for many months, I personally would prefer a tent, if possible free standing and high enough to sit up in. Ideal weight 1kg or less.

Buen Camino, SY

 

[Kitsambler]

Bivak versus tent: A bivak is great if you only want to camp occasionally, if it will be your main home for many months, I personally would prefer a tent, if possible free standing and high enough to sit up in. Ideal weight 1kg or less.

Roger used one of these Solplex tents at 435g. The thru-hikers on the American long distance trails prefer the Duplex version for its greater space, but you won't have as much rain to worry about. Many nights you will be in a European camping ground, where the privacy of a tent is a consideration.

 

[Kitsambler]

options

Here's another flip-flop idea:
1) I'm not sure whether it is possible to reach from Calais to Rome via VF in 90 days (Schengen 90)
2) Iona to Dover + family/friends (non-Schengen 90)
3) Rome to Santiago via Arles (Schengen 90)

 

[John R McLean]

Just remembered: Canterbury Cathedral used to have/issue their own Credencial and stamp, might be worth inquiring if they still do.

To read: Try to get a copy of Ben Nimmo's book "Pilgrim Snail", he walked, long time ago, from Canterbury to Santiago with a trombone to raise money for charity. It is not only a great read, but also full of insights and some practical gems. It is out of print, but you might be able to pick up a second hand copy "somewhere".

Bivak versus tent: A bivak is great if you only want to camp occasionally, if it will be your main home for many months, I personally would prefer a tent, if possible free standing and high enough to sit up in. Ideal weight 1kg or less.

Buen Camino, SY

I'll be searching for that book today! I have a very ultra light one man tent that I bought specifically for a one month ramble around the Isle of Mull a few years back which seemingly would be my go to shelter but I'm intrigued by the bivy option. That romantic, "under the stars" drop anyway option.....but I realize that sometimes its not practical. I will lay out my budget and determine how that dictates my accommodation options. I plan on a mix or camping but take advantage of the pilgrim options whenever available and the odd treat! I'm not adverse to a parador now and then haha. My options will change depending on the route and the various companions who may join me on portions of my trip. ( My wife Janice will join me for some sections, likely the Iona to St Andrews route and then possibly later depending on how everything works out) There will be no tenting when Janice joins lol

 

[John R McLean]

To read: Try to get a copy of Ben Nimmo's book "Pilgrim Snail", he walked, long time ago, from Canterbury to Santiago with a trombone to raise money for charity. It is not only a great read, but also full of insights and some practical gems. It is out of print, but you might be able to pick up a second hand copy "somewhere".

Bivak versus tent: A bivak is great if you only want to camp occasionally, if it will be

Just remembered: Canterbury Cathedral used to have/issue their own Credencial and stamp, might be worth inquiring if they still do.

To read: Try to get a copy of Ben Nimmo's book "Pilgrim Snail", he walked, long time ago, from Canterbury to Santiago with a trombone to raise money for charity. It is not only a great read, but also full of insights and some practical gems. It is out of print, but you might be able to pick up a second hand copy "somewhere".

Bivak versus tent: A bivak is great if you only want to camp occasionally, if it will be your main home for many months, I personally would prefer a tent, if possible free standing and high enough to sit up in. Ideal weight 1kg or less.

Buen Camino, SY

just bought the book on Amazon for less than $5.00 Cdn.

 

[Harington]

My goal is to arrive in Casablanca via Santiago and or Rome. I have 1 year laid out to complete it. Once my route is set, I will then apply rest days to the calendar and see how it shakes out.

If you do decide to go over the Great St Bernard bear in mind it is accessible only mid-June-October, sometimes even September.

 

[Doogman]

Canterbury Cathedral definitely has their own credencial and stamp. I picked up one this summer for a 2 pound donation. There is an information kiosk on the Cathedral grounds that provides them.

 

[Richard P]

Hello John
You are a man after my own heart - one who plans BIG. I love it.
So here are my ramblings to your ramblings: Fly to England, get a cheap flight to Casablanca (I see Alitalia has an inexpensive flight from Heathrow) -enjoy- for a few days or weeks. Bus up to Tangier and ferry to Tarifa then start walking northwest through the white villages to Sevilla and the Via del Plata to Santiago. Then east out of Santiago to join the Norte coming down from Ribadeo and along the coast to San Sebastion where you can cut down to Pamplona and onto Puenta la Reina to get on the Via Piedmonte to Arles and off to Italy and the St. Bernard pass ! Then an easy long walk following the Via Francigena back to Calais. I'm tired just thinking about it. I'm pretty sure you could do that in 90 days. You then can have a leisurely walk to Iona. Ha.
I realize I haven't included Rome in there, but I'm still thinking on that one.

 

[caminka]

Planning is progressing! After reading Rogers blog, it looks like the Via Francigena from Calais but it poses three new options. 1) Turn right at Geneva to Le Puy route? 2) Go over the St Bernard Pass and carry on to Rome and beyond? 3) Go over the pass and turn right to Arles route?
Arles vs Le Puy opinions? Routes out of Rome to continue south? (My end destination is Casablanca)
Considerations: If I head toward Santiago and down, I'd like to take the Camino Del Norte so Le Puy makes sense?
I feel like going over the St Bernard Pass would be incredible but I'm not sure if it would be worth going over and then turn around to make my way back to the Le Puy route or just carry on to the Arles.
Sorry....I'm rambling. Any opinions are welcome. Cheers!

I like SY's idea.
if you have time and the 90-day restrictions won't bother you, I would choose the option via assissi to rome then along the coast into france. I have walked lyon - le puy, torino - arles and piemont pyrneen routes and their are all beautiful. no matter which route you choose, at the 'end' you can simply follow the pyrenees to the atlantic and the norte. gr-10 is an option (beautiful, but not in dodgy weather) or there is a proper pilgrim route.
to link st bernard pass and le puy, perhaps via francigena and its variant via torino to susa, then up to cenis pass, and find a gr(s) that will take you to le puy.

a group of slovenian pilgrims walked on a continuation of via francigena south of rome this autumn. they said that the only guide in existance is very very outdated, the route has not been maintained, and sometimes they were glad they were in a group (lots of immigrants from africa roaming around). perhaps not the ideal conditions for a solo pilgrim.

 

[John R McLean]

Hello John
You are a man after my own heart - one who plans BIG. I love it.
So here are my ramblings to your ramblings: Fly to England, get a cheap flight to Casablanca (I see Alitalia has an inexpensive flight from Heathrow) -enjoy- for a few days or weeks. Bus up to Tangier and ferry to Tarifa then start walking northwest through the white villages to Sevilla and the Via del Plata to Santiago. Then east out of Santiago to join the Norte coming down from Ribadeo and along the coast to San Sebastion where you can cut down to Pamplona and onto Puenta la Reina to get on the Via Piedmonte to Arles and off to Italy and the St. Bernard pass ! Then an easy long walk following the Via Francigena back to Calais. I'm tired just thinking about it. I'm pretty sure you could do that in 90 days. You then can have a leisurely walk to Iona. Ha.
I realize I haven't included Rome in there, but I'm still thinking on that one.

Love it! I got so many options on the table. Today I contacted a lawyer to get the ball rolling in my UK passport. They will let me know if I am indeed eligible. That would make things sooooooo much easier.

 

[John R McLean]

I like SY's idea.
if you have time and the 90-day restrictions won't bother you, I would choose the option via assissi to rome then along the coast into france. I have walked lyon - le puy, torino - arles and piemont pyrneen routes and their are all beautiful. no matter which route you choose, at the 'end' you can simply follow the pyrenees to the atlantic and the norte. gr-10 is an option (beautiful, but not in dodgy weather) or there is a proper pilgrim route.
to link st bernard pass and le puy, perhaps via francigena and its variant via torino to susa, then up to cenis pass, and find a gr(s) that will take you to le puy.

a group of slovenian pilgrims walked on a continuation of via francigena south of rome this autumn. they said that the only guide in existance is very very outdated, the route has not been maintained, and sometimes they were glad they were in a group (lots of immigrants from africa roaming around). perhaps not the ideal conditions for a solo pilgrim.

Thanks for the info. I have not yet been able to find much from Rome south.

 

[John R McLean]

I see your plans are for 2019, so you will have plenty of time to sort the "legalities" out, but yes, you would need an European passport or some sort of long term visa to walk this pilgrimage "in one go" ;-) In case you don't now it this http://www.jakobswege-europa.de/wege/ is a handy overview if lot of info (use Google translate if you don't speak German ;-) on the sub-pages.

As somebody who has done a few long distance pilgrimages, here a few biased tips:

Life becomes so much easier if you speak at least some of the languages of the countries you pass through. You already speak English and ?perhaps? French. In Germany you will get along fine with English and in Spain people are used to pilgrims needs as long as you stick to the official Caminos (if you go off-Camino they really get confused why you are not walking an official Camino as a pilgrim). So Italian would be my suggestion to learn, especially if you plan to knock from time to time at parish/monastery doors in search of accommodation ;-) Duolingo.com is a great, free site to get the basics of languages.

Routes: The closer to you stick to "known" pilgrimage routes, even the lesser frequented ones, the more likely people will help you (see above). Plus you get to enjoy the historic feeling of walking in the steps of thousands and thousands that have walked before you. So why not go: Iona>Canterbury, then via the classic Via Francigena to Rome (perhaps via Assisi) walk back the VF until around Lucca, walk the coast to Arles and then you are in firm pilgrimage territory. Once you hit Puente la Reina you can decide how you want to "manage" Spain. You could walk from Puente la Reina to Santo Domingo de la Calzada and then up (reverse direction) the Tunel de San Adrian route to hit the Camino del Norte or you could continue on the Camino Frances (mainly depending on the time of the year).

From Santiago south there is a) the Via de Plata and b) the Caminos Portugues (perhaps via Fatima, Santiago to Fatima is way marked).

Equipment: Unless you are very well off and can stay in paid accommodation each night I guess you will need a tent/bivak. If you need tips for buying one, I can provide them ;-) Also, there will be many days where there simply isn't any paid accommodation available ... As for backpack weight, on long distance pilgrimages my backpack weights typically <13kg, including food and water.

Hope that helps, SY

Wow! Thank you so much for the Duolingo tip! I've been using it everyday since and I really love it! What a great app. Once I gain some confidence I'll be looking at one of the local night classes to help gain more vocabulary and a place to use it!

 

[giorgio]

Hi John, i believe that going to Rome would bring you into a sort of 'cul de sac' considering your intent to get to Casablanca.
It looks like you can do this only by going to Spain and then continue south. In this case the only way out of Rome would be walking back the Via Francigena to Sarzana where you could turn left on the Via della costa to Genova and the French border.This has been reported a while ago on the Forum.
Another possibility for you to include an interesting bit of Italy on your walk would be walking the Via Postumia , which crosses the nort of Italy from east (near Venice) to west ( Genova ) where you then could continue west on Via della costa to the french border ,then in France on the Chemin de menton GR 653 A to Arles .
Here a few links
http://www.compostelle-paca-corse.info/guides-chemins-paca-gr-653a-gr-653d-leurs-variantes
http://viapostumia.eu/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/319..._id=1512475202798170&notif_t=group_highlights
http://viadellacosta.it/the-steps-from-west-to-east/?lang=en
This link could possibly help you to find out if there is any workable itinerary to connect to the previous bits of your walk
https://pilgrimdb.github.io/alphalist.html
I will be available for any additional info you may need
Giorgio

 

[John R McLean]

Hi John, i believe that going to Rome would bring you into a sort of 'cul de sac' considering your intent to get to Casablanca.
It looks like you can do this only by going to Spain and then continue south. In this case the only way out of Rome would be walking back the Via Francigena to Sarzana where you could turn left on the Via della costa to Genova and the French border.This has been reported a while ago on the Forum.
Another possibility for you to include an interesting bit of Italy on your walk would be walking the Via Postumia , which crosses the nort of Italy from east (near Venice) to west ( Genova ) where you then could continue west on Via della costa to the french border ,then in France on the Chemin de menton GR 653 A to Arles .
Here a few links
http://www.compostelle-paca-corse.info/guides-chemins-paca-gr-653a-gr-653d-leurs-variantes
http://viapostumia.eu/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/319..._id=1512475202798170&notif_t=group_highlights
http://viadellacosta.it/the-steps-from-west-to-east/?lang=en
This link could possibly help you to find out if there is any workable itinerary to connect to the previous bits of your walk
https://pilgrimdb.github.io/alphalist.html
I will be available for any additional info you may need
Giorgio

Thank you Giorgio!
Great info. I am currently laying out various routes with mileage and time (days) so that I can have a good idea of any potential Schengen issue. My latest version that I've mapped out gets me to Rome in approximately 85 days from Calais. Once in Rome I could head east to the coast to ferry across to Dubrovnik and make my way across and then down into Turkey and the Lycian Way to eventually end my walk in Jerusalem. Very dependant on the political and safety situation in Syria when I go. Cheers! And Merry Christmas