table etiquette

[naplesdon]

Seeing a whole host of newbies on the Forum I thought I should start a thread about one of my pet peeves. The way pilgrims abuse cafe tables on the Camino is quite annoying.
Outside of Astorga one morning in the tiny village of Murias de Rechivaldo I watched as 4 pilgrims dropped their bags on 4 chairs at one table and then proceeded to unpack the breakfast they had carried from Astorga at a second table, thus depriving the owner of this small establishment the opportunity to served 8 people. Don't worry it didn't take her long to let them know they were not welcome but they wandered off thinking the owner was the offensive one.
The same goes for buying a drink and some chips at a tiendra and then sitting down at a shady table across the street at someone's cafe, this is also a no, no!
You will probably begin and end your Camino at two places where I think the offense is the most egregious.
I have seen so many people stop on the deck at Refuge Orisson and treat it like a public park. They will sit down, unpack a drink and bocadilla they purchased in SJPdP, go inside the restaurant to use the toilet, refill their water bottle at the fountain and walk off, leaving an empty drink can and trash rolled up in an ashtray as if it is no longer their business.
Santiago is the same, pilgrims will buy a drink at one cafe and walk over to a shady or sunny table at another cafe and sit down only to be hustled away by the owner. The demarcation between establishments may not be clear but it is evident by the design and color of the table and chairs. To disespect these owners' hard work and desire to make a living, pay their rent and employees, when you deprive them of the opportunity to host even a single new customer is not cool.
I am sure there are others who have seen worse examples.

 

[LookingFor42]

Hate to say it but those to whom your comments are relevant will not read or take heed of your post.

It's not necessarily newbies who are the offenders either. I have traveled a lot and for a long time but am new to this forum. I have seen many veteran travelers (not all young either) who do this all over the world. But, like I said, they will not read or heed your comments because they believe it their right to behave as they do.

Better just to live and let live and do our part to watch our own behaviour rather than worrying about chastising the behaviour of others (which we cannot control)

 

[Robo]

Very poor 'form'. But sadly it happens all over the World...

 

[bystander]

Depressing, isn't it?

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

It happens sadly all over the world , no maners what so ever .

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Hate to say it but those to whom your comments are relevant will not read or take heed of your post.

It's not necessarily newbies who are the offenders either. I have traveled a lot and for a long time but am new to this forum. I have seen many veteran travelers (not all young either) who do this all over the world. But, like I said, they will not read or heed your comments because they believe it their right to behave as they do.

Better just to live and let live and do our part to watch our own behaviour rather than worrying about chastising the behaviour of others (which we cannot control)

not sure if i agree entirely... chastising, no; politely suggesting things (ie. that sharing tables is more fun), yes.

on that note, please, please, please, for those that are tempted on the Camino (and perhaps not familiar with hiking etiquette): abandoned toilet paper in the bushes is plain disgusting, dirty and just not right, in any way.

 

[CelWilliams]

Seeing a whole host of newbies on the Forum I thought I should start a thread about one of my pet peeves. The way pilgrims abuse cafe tables on the Camino is quite annoying.
Outside of Astorga one morning in the tiny village of Murias de Rechivaldo I watched as 4 pilgrims dropped their bags on 4 chairs at one table and then proceeded to unpack the breakfast they had carried from Astorga at a second table, thus depriving the owner of this small establishment the opportunity to served 8 people. Don't worry it didn't take her long to let them know they were not welcome but they wandered off thinking the owner was the offensive one.
The same goes for buying a drink and some chips at a tiendra and then sitting down at a shady table across the street at someone's cafe, this is also a no, no!
You will probably begin and end your Camino at two places where I think the offense is the most egregious.
I have seen so many people stop on the deck at Refuge Orisson and treat it like a public park. They will sit down, unpack a drink and bocadilla they purchased in SJPdP, go inside the restaurant to use the toilet, refill their water bottle at the fountain and walk off, leaving an empty drink can and trash rolled up in an ashtray as if it is no longer their business.
Santiago is the same, pilgrims will buy a drink at one cafe and walk over to a shady or sunny table at another cafe and sit down only to be hustled away by the owner. The demarcation between establishments may not be clear but it is evident by the design and color of the table and chairs. To disespect these owners' hard work and desire to make a living, pay their rent and employees, when you deprive them of the opportunity to host even a single new customer is not cool.
I am sure there are others who have seen worse examples.

Thanks for the reminder. Also, if you see someone looking for a place to sit who has purchased something to eat/drink at the same establishment welcome them to your table if you have an empty chair. Never put your pack in the chairs.

 

[naplesdon]

Thanks for the reminder. Also, if you see someone looking for a place to sit who has purchased something to eat/drink at the same establishment welcome them to your table if you have an empty chair. Never put your pack in the chairs.

I meant to add that "sharing" comment but then it's just such a simple common courtesy, isn't it.

It happens sadly all over the world , no maners what so ever .

Believe it or not, i was reminded of this particular faux pas yesterday at a cafe in my adopted home, Biarritz.

 

[Robo]

not sure if i agree entirely... chastising, no; politely suggesting things (ie. that sharing tables is more fun), yes.

Sadly if we all look the other way and let them get away with it, they will never realise that their behaviour offends others.

Maybe 'confrontation' is warranted at times.

The Aussies are very good at this, with imaginative phrases such as "Don't be a jerk all your life mate, why not etc etc"

or I could imagine.... "Don't they have cafes where you come from........these tables are for customers not free loaders"

But I would probably mutter something under my breath and move on like the rest of us....

 

[naplesdon]

Sadly if we all look the other way and let them get away with it, they will never realise that their behaviour offends others.

Maybe 'confrontation' is warranted at times.

The Aussies are very good at this, with imaginative phrases such as "Don't be a jerk all your life mate, why not etc etc"

or I could imagine.... "Don't they have cafes where you come from........these tables are for customers not free loaders"

But I would probably mutter something under my breath and move on like the rest of us....

Please don't mutter under your breath! If they are Americans I would not be unabashed enough to ask the question: "How often do you enjoy that Egg McMuffin at this Starbucks every week?"

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Seeing a whole host of newbies on the Forum I thought I should start a thread about one of my pet peeves. The way pilgrims abuse cafe tables on the Camino is quite annoying.
Outside of Astorga one morning in the tiny village of Murias de Rechivaldo I watched as 4 pilgrims dropped their bags on 4 chairs at one table and then proceeded to unpack the breakfast they had carried from Astorga at a second table, thus depriving the owner of this small establishment the opportunity to served 8 people. Don't worry it didn't take her long to let them know they were not welcome but they wandered off thinking the owner was the offensive one.
The same goes for buying a drink and some chips at a tiendra and then sitting down at a shady table across the street at someone's cafe, this is also a no, no!
You will probably begin and end your Camino at two places where I think the offense is the most egregious.
I have seen so many people stop on the deck at Refuge Orisson and treat it like a public park. They will sit down, unpack a drink and bocadilla they purchased in SJPdP, go inside the restaurant to use the toilet, refill their water bottle at the fountain and walk off, leaving an empty drink can and trash rolled up in an ashtray as if it is no longer their business.
Santiago is the same, pilgrims will buy a drink at one cafe and walk over to a shady or sunny table at another cafe and sit down only to be hustled away by the owner. The demarcation between establishments may not be clear but it is evident by the design and color of the table and chairs. To disespect these owners' hard work and desire to make a living, pay their rent and employees, when you deprive them of the opportunity to host even a single new customer is not cool.
I am sure there are others who have seen worse examples.

I sure hope that your information reaches someone who needs it. Sadly, you are probably just preaching to the choir here.

 

[Robo]

Please don't mutter under your breath! If they are Americans I would not be unabashed enough to ask the question: "How often do you enjoy that Egg McMuffin at this Starbucks every week?"

I had to read that twice to get it

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Sadly if we all look the other way and let them get away with it, they will never realise that their behaviour offends others.

Maybe 'confrontation' is warranted at times.

The Aussies are very good at this, with imaginative phrases such as "Don't be a jerk all your life mate, why not etc etc"

or I could imagine.... "Don't they have cafes where you come from........these tables are for customers not free loaders"

But I would probably mutter something under my breath and move on like the rest of us....

in my opinion, assertiveness usually works better than confrontation, can avoid escalating an unpleasant situation and sometimes even get the message through. i can even think of a couple times when i thought someone was a jerk and there was a reason to his/her 'jerkness' that i was not aware of.

 

[Suzanne S.]

@biarritzdon,Thank you for starting this thread. It's interesting to me that this happens all over the world. I have not been a world traveler, so I thought it was just rude Americans that did this. (Thank goodness we aren't all that way!) Maybe part of my Camino is to work on my assertiveness, not just rely on my example!

 

[tortuga bob]

I have never walked a Camino, but planning one on the Primitivo this Fall.

Theoretical situation:
It's early in the morning. I've stopped at a bakery and bought some bread or pastries.
Farther down the street is a bar that has opened and I want a cup of cafe con leche.
The bar doesn't have anything I want to eat.
Am I allowed to eat my pastry while I drink the cup of coffee I have just purchased or shall I ask for a paper cup to go and eat my breakfast down the street on the corner?

 

[Introibo]

Even as I type its happening here in Hontanas. People unpacking their own food and then using the tomatoe sauce the albergue has out. Hontanas is a tiny place and very dependent on pilgrim money I'd guess. Be nice to see people being sensitive to this and spending a little money

 

[cher99840]

Such is life. There is a lack of consensus on defining/clarifying etiquette, yet most of us (including me) have strong feelings about those who operate beyond its boundaries.

 

[naplesdon]

I have never walked a Camino, but planning one on the Primitivo this Fall.

Theoretical situation:
It's early in the morning. I've stopped at a bakery and bought some bread or pastries.
Farther down the street is a bar that has opened and I want a cup of cafe con leche.
The bar doesn't have anything I want to eat.
Am I allowed to eat my pastry while I drink the cup of coffee I have just purchased or shall I ask for a paper cup to go and eat my breakfast down the street on the corner?

That is a normal practice with many people and places in France and Spain to buy a pasty and carry it to a place to purchase a cafe; the important part is the purchase of the cafe. No worries.

 

[cher99840]

This is such a little issue, in the grand scheme of things. If this is the worst thing that happens to me on Camino, I think I'll be glad.

More horrific are items that I've read about in other threads: the burn victim from Germany who was shunned. The people who aren't invited to sit down. The woman getting her body snatched at by someone.

Read about yes, but seldom are people shunned, not invited to join in or manhandled. Some form of rudeness is encountered almost every day; therefore, how others deal with it are of greater interest IMHO.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I would have seethed. And then bitten my tongue. Still, HMPH! My rude people were the young guys on bikes from Italy. They stayed up talking until 2 am with everyone begging them to shut up.
I didn't see that about a burn victim being shunned. I can't imagine that on Camino! Hell I can't imagine that anywhere. What on earth is wrong with people?

As a conscientious newbie, I read many of the older threads, and in one, a young woman asked others why people focused on the physical issues of Camino, but not so much the psychological issues or mental issues. It was one of the most fascinating threads that I have read in this site, and invoked a lively discussion. Many people objected to the issue being brought up, but the responses were fascinating.

An issue that came up on that thread (hope I'm recalling this correctly) is that the Camino is not necessarily a great place all the time, and that some people don't have the best of experiences--perhaps especially those that have some type of challenge. I think that is where the burn victim (shunned by a large group of other Germans--and he was German, as I recall) example came in. I felt especially upset, as my father had some very serious injuries that left him with his handsome face, but a less than perfect body. We always struggled with stares.

 

[grayland]

A growing problem with the bars along the Camino Frances is the stream of Pilgrims using the bathrooms without buying anything.
A Hundred Thousand people passing by your bathroom and using the TP and water adds up to a huge problem for an owner trying to make it.

The popularity of the CF is causing a lot of things to change , and for the most part, not for the better.

There are stories now of bars posting "customers only" (in Spanish, of course) on bathrooms and even locking the doors. Stories of pilgrims being turned down when not a customer are being reported.
This is a pretty new development but certainly easy to understand. Who pays for the TP, water to flush and the cleaning, if not the sales in the business??

Always buy a bottle of water or something for an euro if you are going to use the bathroom....or just ask the bartender to use the bano and leave an euro or so.

 

[naplesdon]

A growing problem with the bars along the Camino Frances is the stream of Pilgrims using the bathrooms without buying anything.
A Hundred Thousand people passing by your bathroom and using the TP and water adds up to a huge problem for an owner trying to make it.

The popularity of the CF is causing a lot of things to change , and for the most part, not for the better.

There are stories now of bars posting "customers only" (in Spanish, of course) on bathrooms and even locking the doors. Stories of pilgrims being turned down when not a customer are being reported.
This is a pretty new development but certainly easy to understand. Who pays for the TP, water to flush and the cleaning, if not the sales in the business??

Always buy a bottle of water or something for an euro if you are going to use the bathroom....or just ask the bartender to use the bano and leave an euro or so.

Part of my point about citing Orisson in my post because of its limited water source.
I can only imagine how I would deal with 250,000 people stopping by my home to use the toilet every year for free.

 

[Chacharm]

As a conscientious newbie, I read many of the older threads, and in one, a young woman asked others why people focused on the physical issues of Camino, but not so much the psychological issues or mental issues. It was one of the most fascinating threads that I have read in this site, and invoked a lively discussion. Many people objected to the issue being brought up, but the responses were fascinating.

An issue that came up on that thread (hope I'm recalling this correctly) is that the Camino is not necessarily a great place all the time, and that some people don't have the best of experiences--perhaps especially those that have some type of challenge. I think that is where the burn victim (shunned by a large group of other Germans--and he was German, as I recall) example came in. I felt especially upset, as my father had some very serious injuries that left him with his handsome face, but a less than perfect body. We always struggled with stares.

There was a sweet dithery hippie woman from Australia who paced me for a while. She was dragging a giant cloth bag she had sewn full of tie dyed scarves and skirts as a pack and wore only birkenstocks. Always trying to get her bunk mates to start the day with meditation and yoga with her guidance. She was also carrying several crystals she would place around other people's bunks along with a good supply of incense and herbal tea. She was probably in her early 30s. I think she had envisioned a lovely walk during which others spent all day discussing with her their spiritual goals and thoughts and feelings. I felt so bad for her. It was cold and raining and every time I saw her she just looked like a colorful drowned rat. By the time we arrived in Estella she was just done. She had arrived very late and I saw her when we were leaving a bar, just standing out in the wet and the cold screaming and ranting. There were no bunks left in any albuergue and she didn't have the money for a hotel and she didn't speak Spanish and she was having a hard time with her vegan diet and the two Austrailian women she had met (who were pretty fed up with her by this time) hadn't stepped up to help when she begged for a bed at the albuergue.
Someone directed me to a little bar that had a tiny, windowless (warm and dry) room over the kitchen they let her have for 10 euro a night. I paid for two nights so she could rest. The little lady who owned the place cooked her a nice vegan meal and petted her a little and I bought her a glass of wine and she cried and cried and cried. I told her I thought she should call her parents and ask them to send her some money for some proper shoes and a raincoat and a pack she could carry on her back. What I really thought was that she should go home.
And the next day I left and never saw her again.
She just had no idea what she was getting into and had no ability to alter her conception. I don't know if other people were rude to her or not - she was trying even under good circumstances. But I think of her sometimes and feel guilty for having avoided her on many occasions.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The very best revenge

Is that an oxymoron on a pilgrimage??

 

[Jamilla's mum]

Wow! I'm glad to have stumbled on this thread. It seems I'll have to learn to bite my tongue quite a lot if that's normal behaviour.
Although maybe the VDLP doesn't see as many freeloaders?

Chacharm your post reminds me about all the 'born-agains' I've encountered at various points.
They can be so, so trying; and when one is trying to make a 'spiritual' pilgrimage especially so.
I remember being inflicted with one when trying to climb Gebel Musa (Mount Sinai) a few years back, when I was less fit than now.
Fortunately, my pace was too slow for this charitable Christian, and he left me far behind - thank God.

 

[naplesdon]

Is that an oxymoron on a pilgrimage??

Out of context, well put!

 

[CaminoDebrita]

There was a sweet dithery hippie woman from Australia who paced me for a while. She was dragging a giant cloth bag she had sewn full of tie dyed scarves and skirts as a pack and wore only birkenstocks. Always trying to get her bunk mates to start the day with meditation and yoga with her guidance. She was also carrying several crystals she would place around other people's bunks along with a good supply of incense and herbal tea. She was probably in her early 30s. I think she had envisioned a lovely walk during which others spent all day discussing with her their spiritual goals and thoughts and feelings. I felt so bad for her. It was cold and raining and every time I saw her she just looked like a colorful drowned rat. By the time we arrived in Estella she was just done. She had arrived very late and I saw her when we were leaving a bar, just standing out in the wet and the cold screaming and ranting. There were no bunks left in any albuergue and she didn't have the money for a hotel and she didn't speak Spanish and she was having a hard time with her vegan diet and the two Austrailian women she had met (who were pretty fed up with her by this time) hadn't stepped up to help when she begged for a bed at the albuergue.
Someone directed me to a little bar that had a tiny, windowless (warm and dry) room over the kitchen they let her have for 10 euro a night. I paid for two nights so she could rest. The little lady who owned the place cooked her a nice vegan meal and petted her a little and I bought her a glass of wine and she cried and cried and cried. I told her I thought she should call her parents and ask them to send her some money for some proper shoes and a raincoat and a pack she could carry on her back. What I really thought was that she should go home.
And the next day I left and never saw her again.
She just had no idea what she was getting into and had no ability to alter her conception. I don't know if other people were rude to her or not - she was trying even under good circumstances. But I think of her sometimes and feel guilty for having avoided her on many occasions.

What a story!

Yep. She sounds like a very challenging travel companion. To be honest, we will all be walking "our own camino" and when I spend my hard-earned money on travel, I'm pretty selfish about traveling companions. I am courteous, friendly, and gracious. Does that mean I will walk with a sweet dithery hippie woman? Probably not.

 

[naplesdon]

There was a sweet dithery hippie woman from Australia who paced me for a while. She was dragging a giant cloth bag she had sewn full of tie dyed scarves and skirts as a pack and wore only birkenstocks. Always trying to get her bunk mates to start the day with meditation and yoga with her guidance. She was also carrying several crystals she would place around other people's bunks along with a good supply of incense and herbal tea. She was probably in her early 30s. I think she had envisioned a lovely walk during which others spent all day discussing with her their spiritual goals and thoughts and feelings. I felt so bad for her. It was cold and raining and every time I saw her she just looked like a colorful drowned rat. By the time we arrived in Estella she was just done. She had arrived very late and I saw her when we were leaving a bar, just standing out in the wet and the cold screaming and ranting. There were no bunks left in any albuergue and she didn't have the money for a hotel and she didn't speak Spanish and she was having a hard time with her vegan diet and the two Austrailian women she had met (who were pretty fed up with her by this time) hadn't stepped up to help when she begged for a bed at the albuergue.
Someone directed me to a little bar that had a tiny, windowless (warm and dry) room over the kitchen they let her have for 10 euro a night. I paid for two nights so she could rest. The little lady who owned the place cooked her a nice vegan meal and petted her a little and I bought her a glass of wine and she cried and cried and cried. I told her I thought she should call her parents and ask them to send her some money for some proper shoes and a raincoat and a pack she could carry on her back. What I really thought was that she should go home.
And the next day I left and never saw her again.
She just had no idea what she was getting into and had no ability to alter her conception. I don't know if other people were rude to her or not - she was trying even under good circumstances. But I think of her sometimes and feel guilty for having avoided her on many occasions.

I don't think you should feel guilty or remorseful at all. There are a large number of homeless folks and lost souls like this woman who ebb and flow along the Camino and we can't be responsible for them all. They are harmless and somehow find a way to meet their daily needs, just like the rest of us.

 

[Chacharm]

Wow! I'm glad to have stumbled on this thread. It seems I'll have to learn to bite my tongue quite a lot if that's normal behaviour.
Although maybe the VDLP doesn't see as many freeloaders?

Chacharm your post reminds me about all the 'born-agains' I've encountered at various points.
They can be so, so trying; and when one is trying to make a 'spiritual' pilgrimage especially so.
I remember being inflicted with one when trying to climb Gebel Musa (Mount Sinai) a few years back, when I was less fit than now.
Fortunately, my pace was too slow for this charitable Christian, and he left me far behind - thank God.

It is funny because I expected a lot of that before my Camino. I am not religious and dreaded the (I figured) inevitable Have You Found Jesus conversations that Texas throws at me on a regular basis. I walked with priests, a nun, several practicing catholics, two born again fundies from Tennessee, several Buddhists and few atheists - but the only one who wanted to foist her beliefs on me was the pagan. Go figure. Thank mother nature?

 

[naplesdon]

Would you walk with me ? I like your style.

You are more than welcome to join me from Oloron-Sainte-Marie to Logrono from late may to mid june, for happy and quiet trails along the Camino Aragones. Then Burgos to Astorga with folks I met last year going on from there by train to Ferrol to walk the Camino Ingles to Santiago late August/September. I have a two week gig at Albergue San Anton near Castrojeriz early in July. My doctors are amazed that I am spending 60+ days on the Camino this year, so am I.

 

[Mark Lee]

You are more than welcome to join me from Oloron-Sainte-Marie to Logrono from late may to mid june, for happy and quiet trails along the Camino Aragones. Then Burgos to Astorga with folks I met last year going on from there by train to Ferrol to walk the Camino Ingles to Santiago late August/September. I have a two week gig at Albergue San Anton near Castrojeriz early in July. My doctor are amazed that I am spending 60+ days on the Camino this year, so am I.

Don is great company. I speak from experience.
cheers

 

[NavyBlue]

Hello,

Going back to the question of the OP, concentrating on "normally educated" pilgrims :

- I have learned by experience to ask the bar owner if he/she has an objection about us eating something (peanuts or whatever) from our backpacks in addition to the coffee or beverage we have purchased at the bar (Podemos comer algo sacado de la mochila ? in my broken Spanish). The answer would be "Sure, please" or "No, sorry".

- It happens that the chairs at a table of 4 are the best places for two people (obviously...) and their backpacks, because there is little space between the tables and you don't want somebody to trip over your bag and get hurt. Otherwise we try to sit at the periphery of the sitting area with our bags in the vicinity (along a wall for instance). Or try to keep the bags against our legs if the chairs are lacking for others. Just common sense and adaptation.

 

[annakappa]

There's a great selection of replies on this thread.
But take the last word of the last posting by NavyBlue: ADAPTION is the word! That is what the Camino is all about!

 

[annakappa]

There was a sweet dithery hippie woman from Australia who paced me for a while. She was dragging a giant cloth bag she had sewn full of tie dyed scarves and skirts as a pack and wore only birkenstocks. .

Well I wear Birkenstocks all the time, I even took them with me on the Camino one year( but they were too cold in the mountains, so I've reverted back to Crocs which are more convertible).
Who hasn't tried Birkenstocks doesn't know what they are missing! Anyway, I don't think I class as a Hippie!

 

[Chacharm]

Well I wear Birkenstocks all the time, I even took them with me on the Camino one year( but they were too cold in the mountains, so I've reverted back to Crocs which are more convertible).
Who hasn't tried Birkenstocks doesn't know what they are missing! Anyway, I don't think I class as a Hippie!

I have nothing against Birkies OR hippies! I will have my Tevas in my pack. But I mean she was hiking all day in her sandals - in cold, wet weather. And 100% cotton skirts and toe socks. Absolutely covered in bumps and bruises and scratches from slips and falls.

 

[Jochen_Schmidtke]

Singn I saw in a bar at Camponaraya
Your rights in a bar Buen Camino
Maybe someone could translate it.
Jochen

 

[Castilian]

Your rights in a bar

Buen Camino
Maybe someone could translate it.

Here I go with a translation:

FOR THE PRICE OF A
WINE(GLASS) YOU HAVE
RIGHT TO:

-(get) a pincho (for those who don't know what's a pincho: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pincho
-(get) a toothpick
-(get) a table napkin
-read the newspaper
-see the TV
-listen to music
-occupy a table and a chair
-go to the toilet
-wash your hands and dry them off
-use the toilet paper
-throw (cigarette) butts down to the floor*
-leave packages and errands
-have a clean tableware/crockery
-have a pleasant temperature
-decide when the local (the bar) is closed
-and you also have
right to say:

THAT THE OWNER
EARNS A LOT OF MONEY!

*Nowadays is forbidden to smoke inside bars. Probably the sign was made before the law that forbade it.

 

[Former member 22438]

Sadly if we all look the other way and let them get away with it, they will never realise that their behaviour offends others.

Maybe 'confrontation' is warranted at times.

The Aussies are very good at this, with imaginative phrases such as "Don't be a jerk all your life mate, why not etc etc"

or I could imagine.... "Don't they have cafes where you come from........these tables are for customers not free loaders"

But I would probably mutter something under my breath and move on like the rest of us....

If you say these things here in the big cities in Holland to those kind of people , they hit you in the face or worse they shoot you. Seeing that kind of behaviour ,everybody turns his head the other way around. Pity but it is the best thing for your personal health.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Well I wear Birkenstocks all the time, I even took them with me on the Camino one year( but they were too cold in the mountains, so I've reverted back to Crocs which are more convertible).
Who hasn't tried Birkenstocks doesn't know what they are missing! Anyway, I don't think I class as a Hippie!

Oh, I have Birkenstocks too! Just don't be placing crystals around the beds and lighting smudge sticks and we'll all be okay!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Well I wear Birkenstocks all the time, I even took them with me on the Camino one year( but they were too cold in the mountains, so I've reverted back to Crocs which are more convertible).
Who hasn't tried Birkenstocks doesn't know what they are missing! Anyway, I don't think I class as a Hippie!

Annakappa, have you seen the new plastic ones? Perfect for the Camino since they can also be taken to the shower (back to regular programming now ;0) )

 

[annakappa]

Annakappa, have you seen the new plastic ones? Perfect for the Camino since they can also be taken to the shower (back to regular programming now ;0) )

Maybe, but not here in Costa Rica!

 

[Robo]

If you say these things here in the big cities in Holland to those kind of people , they hit you in the face or worse they shoot you. Seeing that kind of behaviour ,everybody turns his head the other way around. Pity but it is the best thing for your personal health.

That's sad. I always assumed Holland was a nice place to live.

It might explain why so many Dutch people live here in Australia though!

 

[jeffnd]

So you stop at a bar to use the bathroom or maybe refill your water bottle. Please do something to patronize that business. You don't need to order a full meal. Get a pop or wine or beer and relax for a bit. Not in the mood for anything? Then get a bag of chips or a candy bar for later.

It's a symbiotic relationship. These places, especially in the small towns, depend on pilgrims to stay in business. And we pilgrims depend on them for the services they provide.

 

[Robo]

I think there are fundamentally two types of people in the World. And maybe a few other 'sub-types' in between

There are those who go through life treating others and they would wish to be treated themselves. Generally these people are great company, a pleasure to know and leave us feeling better/happier for having known them.

Then there are the others. They see the rest of the World as 'owing' them something, have a deep sense of 'entitlement', spend much of their time complaining about anything and everything, and are frustrating and irritating to be around. They often have zero sense of accountability and responsibility.

For a happier life these latter types are to be avoided and/or ignored. They cannot be reasoned with and are unlikely to change their ways. They merely spread misery..........

On my Camino, as I do in life, I will seek out the former and where possible, avoid the latter

 

[Dutch]

A growing problem with the bars along the Camino Frances is the stream of Pilgrims using the bathrooms without buying anything.
A Hundred Thousand people passing by your bathroom and using the TP and water adds up to a huge problem for an owner trying to make it.

Time for a smart camino entrepeneur to open a "2theloo". I know i would pay for that!

 

[Dutch]

@Albertinho shooting people in Holland over things like that? Dont you think your exaggerating just a little bit here? Holland isn't the wild west or L.A. gangland, come on now...it is one of the most civilized countries in the world.

 

[Dutch]

Table etiquette? And here is was thinking i was gonna read a thread about people who don't want to or dont know how to use knives and forks while eating ) or maybe they just LOVE their spoons

 

[Robo]

Time for a smart camino entrepeneur to open a "2theloo". I know i would pay for that!

Now there's an idea........ Showers, coffee, pedicure, massage........

 

[William Marques]

Please - If people wish to continue the discussion on chairs and bunks they should start a new thread and I can move all the posts relating to that topic to that thread.

This thread is about the way pilgrims behave at cafés and similar establishments along the Caminos.

The posts relating to this have now been moved to
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/chairs-and-bunks.32280/

 

[Former member 22438]

@Albertinho shooting people in Holland over things like that? Dont you think your exaggerating just a little bit here? Holland isn't the wild west or L.A. gangland, come on now...it is one of the most civilized countries in the world.

Come and experience yourself. You will be shocked ! Civilised ?

 

[naplesdon]

Don is great company. I speak from experience.
cheers

Mark we were all very lucky to have the group of pilgrims we crossed paths in june and july last year. From day to day and time to time there they were between Orisson and Santiago: Steiner, Johan, Karin, Gisi, Irish Mike, the German twins, Oki and his wife, Peter the trekker, Patty and Ronavee (aka Thelma and Louise.)
I'm looking forward walking with Patty and Ronavee from Burgos to Astorga this August.
To remain in the spirit of this thread every picture I have of members of this group is sitting around a table sharing their friendship, beers and wine.

 

[susanawee]

It happens sadly all over the world , no maners what so ever .

Yes, sadly it does happen all over the world, but, if no-one says anything, it just keeps happening.....I think that Biaritzdon's words are a timely reminder to us all to look to our manners and to our actions...Camino Hugs.

 

[Dutch]

Every place i stop can always make a cafe con leche or cortado or two, but at least half of the time i will eat the food i bought at a panaderia. I just dont want chocolate baked candy breadrolls or tortillas in the morning. ieuwwww

 

[naplesdon]

Time for a smart camino entrepeneur to open a "2theloo". I know i would pay for that!

I don't know this term but if it is something like a Portapotty/Portolet, you can forget it. The attendant and sewerage hauler would have to be stationed there 24/7 and the surround area would look like the loos after a rock concert.

 

[Dutch]

I don't know this term but if it is something like a Portapotty/Portolet, you can forget it. The attendant and sewerage hauler would have to be stationed there 24/7 and the surround area would look like the loos after a rock concert.

Hahaha, no, 2theloo.com is nothing like that its the kind of toilet you would LOVE to pay to use. Always spotless clean. You pay for the use at the gate entrance of the toilets (€0,50-0,70), you get a ticket and with that ticket you get €0,50/0,70 discount on anything you buy in the shop where the 2theloo is in.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Hahaha, no, 2theloo.com is nothing like that its the kind of toilet you would LOVE to pay to use. Always spotless clean. You pay for the use at the gate entrance of the toilets (€0,50-0,70), you get a ticket and with that ticket you get €0,50/0,70 discount on anything you buy in the shop where the 2theloo is in.

This is a briliant idea. I remember being in Amsterdam and having to pay to use the loo of the restaurant where I was eating - with no discount on my meal. I guess now the cafe just needs to hire a person to sell those tickets, because the poor people behind the bar are already running around like chickens without a head when a sea of pilgrims walks in.

 

[Jamilla's mum]

The behaviours commented on here range from disgusting to highly amusing.
But I'm glad I'll be walking in the VDLP, cos it seems most of the selfish behaviour occurs on the Camino Frances.
(Or am I wrong?)

 

[Dutch]

This is a briliant idea. I remember being in Amsterdam and having to pay to use the loo of the restaurant where I was eating - with no discount on my meal. I guess now the cafe just needs to hire a person to sell those tickets, because the poor people behind the bar are already running around like chickens without a head when a sea of pilgrims walks in.

No it is fully automated, the ticket issue. Drop in a coin, take out the ticket, walk through the little turn-around gate, go do your thing and thats it. Its so simple.
And then you go buy your coffee and use the ticket as a discount or don't buy anything, walk on and you payed for the use of the loo.

 

[grayland]

Quote. Jammilla's mum..
"The behaviours commented on here range from disgusting to highly amusing.
But I'm glad I'll be walking in the VDLP, cos it seems most of the selfish behaviour occurs on the Camino Frances.
(Or am I wrong?)"




The same behavior seems to become common on the VdlP at about Ourense where much larger crowds appear and the albergues become filled up.
This is the 100km mark on the VdlP/Sanabres route.
At least that was my experience in an August Camino in 2013.

 

[Mark Lee]

The behaviours commented on here range from disgusting to highly amusing.
But I'm glad I'll be walking in the VDLP, cos it seems most of the selfish behaviour occurs on the Camino Frances.
(Or am I wrong?)

It's just that there are more people on the Camino Frances. More people equals more occasions of bad behavior and of course more occasions of good behavior. Just a matter of mathematics.
It's really not that bad.

 

[Dutch]

Exactly. Put 150.000 people yearly on the VdlP and see what happens. 1+1=2

 

[Tincatinker]

I learned from both my Paternal and Maternal Granmothers, and of course from my Mother, that the table was a place for sharing, for discussion, for occasional dispute, but mostly a special place provided by the provider for my pleasure and relaxation and my education. Part of that education led me to understand the meaning of respect and the value of benefit. I also learnt that the table was not a place to strip-down a motor-cycle engine or dissect a Guinea-Pig but I digress.

@biarritzdon, and many others are right in highlighting and challenging the behaviours we deplore. So un-becoming of a pilgrim. I am resolved, I shall challenge the cheap-skate tinklers, the table-hogs and the bilkers as I find them. And good luck to us all.

 

[naplesdon]

I learned from both my Paternal and Maternal Granmothers, and of course from my Mother, that the table was a place for sharing, for discussion, for occasional dispute, but mostly a special place provided by the provider for my pleasure and relaxation and my education. Part of that education led me to understand the meaning of respect and the value of benefit. I also learnt that the table was not a place to strip-down a motor-cycle engine or dissect a Guinea-Pig but I digress.

@biarritzdon, and many others are right in highlighting and challenging the behaviours we deplore. So un-becoming of a pilgrim. I am resolved, I shall challenge the cheap-skate tinklers, the table-hogs and the bilkers as I find them. And good luck to us all.

Absolutely, I would love to be sharing a bottle of wine and some enlightened conversation this minute but sadly my table is currently occupied by a laptop.

 

[Susan hopes]

biarritzdon, thank you for posting this. I confess, I was guilty of this at least once. I was a newbie and I honestly didn't know better. (Not to mention, exhausted and dehydrated and not thinking clearly.)

Now I know better and will be more considerate.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

A corollary to "table rules" is that the table is yours as long as you want it after you have made your purchase. There will be no hovering waiter hoping for a second seating. If you sip your wine, you can be there for hours (very slow sipping for a single glass, maybe!!). As a courtesy, of course, invite others to share the table. I suppose that at some point, you have overstayed your welcome; but you should never feel rushed to leave.

 

[AJ]

I have never walked a Camino, but planning one on the Primitivo this Fall.

Theoretical situation:
It's early in the morning. I've stopped at a bakery and bought some bread or pastries.
Farther down the street is a bar that has opened and I want a cup of cafe con leche.
The bar doesn't have anything I want to eat.
Am I allowed to eat my pastry while I drink the cup of coffee I have just purchased or shall I ask for a paper cup to go and eat my breakfast down the street on the corner?

You ask at the bar if it is OK. Sign language will work.

 

[VSB]

I have never walked a Camino, but planning one on the Primitivo this Fall.

Theoretical situation:
It's early in the morning. I've stopped at a bakery and bought some bread or pastries.
Farther down the street is a bar that has opened and I want a cup of cafe con leche.
The bar doesn't have anything I want to eat.
Am I allowed to eat my pastry while I drink the cup of coffee I have just purchased or shall I ask for a paper cup to go and eat my breakfast down the street on the corner?

You ask the cafe owner very politely, and with a smile, if they would mind you eating your purchase along with your coffee. Be prepared to take no for an answer, but they're usually fine about it. Tidy up your crumbs though and don't hang around forever

 

[Arn]

As often is the case, a well intentioned thread can easily devolve into the abyss of character assassination and invective.
As we are want to do, we Mods, will allow a number of replies to go south, knowing rational minds will come to the fore and stability reestablished. Thank you all for once again bearing witness to our confidence in you.
Now, where is that bocadillo I took from the albergue this morning? Ah, it's right here with the Vinotinto I took off the table last night. Still wrapped in the TP I removed from the banjK, I'm sure no one will mind if I put my pack on the table next to me. I'm hoping the three girls that just entered will sit with me. Hey, they are going to the table next to me and putting my pack on the ground. Maybe I should give them a piece of my mind. Then again, maybe I just learned my lesson.

 

[suzrya]

Please don't mutter under your breath! If they are Americans I would not be unabashed enough to ask the question: "How often do you enjoy that Egg McMuffin at this Starbucks every week?"

Sorry, but can't resist -- I'm American & believe the Starbucks baristas would not even notice someone eating a McMuffin & certainly wouldn't confront someone if they did notice. But, hey, it's the NW and anything goes!!

 

[naplesdon]

You ask at the bar if it is OK. Sign language will work.

AJ, you are always right, just a simple nod of the head will do some times but a consent from the owner is certainly warranted. That goes for importing the Egg McMuffin to Starbucks as well.

 

[Robo]

Sorry, but can't resist -- I'm American & believe the Starbucks baristas would not even notice someone eating a McMuffin & certainly wouldn't confront someone if they did notice. But, hey, it's the NW and anything goes!!

Coming from the last of the fast food Giants, maybe you can explain to this 'Limey' why McDonalds do not provide Cutlery with their burgers? Is one expected to eat the meal with ones hands?

Actually if you have ever seen an Australian Burger.........I always insist on cutlery.

They are so huge that if eaten with hands only they fall apart everywhere!
They're loaded with bacon, egg, beetroot, cheese, pineapple etc etc.

 

[merai]

Seeing a whole host of newbies on the Forum I thought I should start a thread about one of my pet peeves. The way pilgrims abuse cafe tables on the Camino is quite annoying.
Outside of Astorga one morning in the tiny village of Murias de Rechivaldo I watched as 4 pilgrims dropped their bags on 4 chairs at one table and then proceeded to unpack the breakfast they had carried from Astorga at a second table, thus depriving the owner of this small establishment the opportunity to served 8 people. Don't worry it didn't take her long to let them know they were not welcome but they wandered off thinking the owner was the offensive one.
The same goes for buying a drink and some chips at a tiendra and then sitting down at a shady table across the street at someone's cafe, this is also a no, no!
You will probably begin and end your Camino at two places where I think the offense is the most egregious.
I have seen so many people stop on the deck at Refuge Orisson and treat it like a public park. They will sit down, unpack a drink and bocadilla they purchased in SJPdP, go inside the restaurant to use the toilet, refill their water bottle at the fountain and walk off, leaving an empty drink can and trash rolled up in an ashtray as if it is no longer their business.
Santiago is the same, pilgrims will buy a drink at one cafe and walk over to a shady or sunny table at another cafe and sit down only to be hustled away by the owner. The demarcation between establishments may not be clear but it is evident by the design and color of the table and chairs. To disespect these owners' hard work and desire to make a living, pay their rent and employees, when you deprive them of the opportunity to host even a single new customer is not cool.
I am sure there are others who have seen worse examples.

Sometimes we have to understand that this kind of insensitive behavior harms the rest of the pilgrims that can found with an unfriendly attitude of countrymen who are tired of being nice with this "bad pilgrims manners" ... what a shame ! Even though, hope will be small portion of all!!!

 

[William Marques]

It's the beetroot that makes an Aussie burger.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

the Starbucks baristas would not even notice someone eating a McMuffin

Starbucks: destroying coffee since 1971.

So what is a large? Grande? Venti? In English, small, medium, large (extra-large)? When mumbled by the tongue-pierced clerk, they all sound the same.

Bring back the 25 cent cup of coffee...

"Wholesale coffee prices have fallen by almost a third in the past year, but experts don’t expect the retail price for a cup of joe to do anything but go up."

 

[Kathy F.]

I remember, with shame, the times I inadvertently did the wrong thing on the Camino.
Ignorance? Exhaustion?

On day one, I climbed into my top bunk (never having slept in a top bunk before in my life!) at the albergue in SJPdP. Wet, tired, anxious, excited, all thoughts racing through my mind.
The sign said the lights went out at 10. I thought that meant that the lights automatically went out at 10. I wrestled myself into my sleeping bag for the first time, wide awake yet trying to fall asleep, envying my roommates who gently slept all around me. I was the last one in the room.
You know where this is going.
Imagine my chagrin when one of my roommates climbed out of her bunk, walked over to the light switch, and turned it off. I was so mortified! I didn't even know what to say (what language? English? French? Spanish? German?). As the last one in the room, it was my responsibility to turn off the light and I hadn't.

I never carried lunch with me but I'm sure I tiredly placed my backpack on a chair one time without thinking.

I crossed a "road" one time without looking both ways and almost got hit by a school bus.

I carried a grudge against a pilgrim who insisted that everyone in the room wake up at 0530 because that was when you had to get up (If you read my blog, you know I am NOT one of the early risers on the Camino). I never saw this guy again but practically got into a shouting match with him, both of us flicking the lights on and off (the light switch was right by my head).

I considered stomping to smithereens the automatic alarm clock of another pilgrim who didn't turn it off while she was in the shower room one early morning.

There are many things I look back on and am pleased with my behavior, but, with humility, I was not 100% at my best all the time.

I can only hope for the forgiveness of my fellow pilgrims for those times I messed up.

 

[wayfarer]

There are many things I look back on and am pleased with my behavior, but, with humility, I was not 100% at my best all the time.
I can only hope for the forgiveness of my fellow pilgrims for those times I messed up.

Our wings disappear from time to time and we can just feel the nub of horns on our forehead, but we do our best.

 

[Bernard duffy]

@Albertinho shooting people in Holland over things like that? Dont you think your exaggerating just a little bit here? Holland isn't the wild west or L.A. gangland, come on now...it is one of the most civilized countries in the world.

The country is civilised,the people however........................................................

 

[Former member 22438]

I remember, with shame, the times I inadvertently did the wrong thing on the Camino.
Ignorance? Exhaustion?

On day one, I climbed into my top bunk (never having slept in a top bunk before in my life!) at the albergue in SJPdP. Wet, tired, anxious, excited, all thoughts racing through my mind.
The sign said the lights went out at 10. I thought that meant that the lights automatically went out at 10. I wrestled myself into my sleeping bag for the first time, wide awake yet trying to fall asleep, envying my roommates who gently slept all around me. I was the last one in the room.
You know where this is going.
Imagine my chagrin when one of my roommates climbed out of her bunk, walked over to the light switch, and turned it off. I was so mortified! I didn't even know what to say (what language? English? French? Spanish? German?). As the last one in the room, it was my responsibility to turn off the light and I hadn't.

I never carried lunch with me but I'm sure I tiredly placed my backpack on a chair one time without thinking.

I crossed a "road" one time without looking both ways and almost got hit by a school bus.

I carried a grudge against a pilgrim who insisted that everyone in the room wake up at 0530 because that was when you had to get up (If you read my blog, you know I am NOT one of the early risers on the Camino). I never saw this guy again but practically got into a shouting match with him, both of us flicking the lights on and off (the light switch was right by my head).

I considered stomping to smithereens the automatic alarm clock of another pilgrim who didn't turn it off while she was in the shower room one early morning.

There are many things I look back on and am pleased with my behavior, but, with humility, I was not 100% at my best all the time.

I can only hope for the forgiveness of my fellow pilgrims for those times I messed up.

Me culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa !
he who is without sin , cast the first stone!

 

[naplesdon]

Starbucks: destroying coffee since 1971.

So what is a large? Grande? Venti? In English, small, medium, large (extra-large)? When mumbled by the tongue-pierced clerk, they all sound the same.

Bring back the 25 cent cup of coffee...

"Wholesale coffee prices have fallen by almost a third in the past year, but experts don’t expect the retail price for a cup of joe to do anything but go up."

It has been interesting to watch this corporate coffee emporium squeeze out all the old time neighborhood shops, much along the lines of the Microsquish business model. It totally amazes me to see the number of Starbucks that have sprung up while you can walk into any cafe and get a cup of joe for 1 euro.

A corollary to "table rules" is that the table is yours as long as you want it after you have made your purchase. There will be no hovering waiter hoping for a second seating. If you sip your wine, you can be there for hours (very slow sipping for a single glass, maybe!!). As a courtesy, of course, invite others to share the table. I suppose that at some point, you have overstayed your welcome; but you should never feel rushed to leave.

It is a very interesting dynamic. I used to tell my daughter if we get there early enough the table will be ours for the day. Most places in Europe don't expect to do a second turn and the waiter are not working for tips. Have a nice day!

 

[Tia Valeria]

Many years ago we ordered a bocadillo with steak filling. We were asked if we would like a knife and fork and declined expecting a thin piece of meat in the bread. When it came we took one look at the size of the steak and went to ask for the knife and fork.
Back to the OP - when stopping we had coffee or the meal ordered before asking if the toilet was available. At least once the toilet must have been their own bathroom. Other times it has been for bar customers and in a corner of the bar and clearly labelled.

 

[suzrya]

Coming from the last of the fast food Giants, maybe you can explain to this 'Limey' why McDonalds do not provide Cutlery with their burgers? Is one expected to eat the meal with ones hands?

Actually if you have ever seen an Australian Burger.........I always insist on cutlery.

They are so huge that if eaten with hands only they fall apart everywhere!
They're loaded with bacon, egg, beetroot, cheese, pineapple etc etc.

I think one can ask for utensils, but the burgers are wrapped in paper for convenience & it's very difficult to cut up with knife & eat with fork while one is driving!

 

[Former member 22438]

I think one can ask for utensils, but the burgers are wrapped in paper for convenience & it's very difficult to cut up with knife & eat with fork while one is driving!

I refuse to enter a "food"barn like macdonalds,kentucky fried chicken or burgerking . Staying in line, paying in advance and accepting greasy obesitas causing unhealthy stuff thrown on a plastic plate ,wrapped in paper and cardboard !
Or drive into a mcdrive and shout into an intercom at a vending window to order some greasy lumb of unknown meat wrapped again in paper , overflown with some undefined sauce. Here ends civilisation. ! Not to speak about etiquette. how can people be so fond of this kind of rubbish and accept this "service " ?
The best fastfoodbarn is no fastfood barn.

 

[Icacos]

I think one can ask for utensils, but the burgers are wrapped in paper for convenience & it's very difficult to cut up with knife & eat with fork while one is driving!

Must admit I got a tremendous chuckle out of this post; I thought it was very much tongue in cheek, and very clever. Perhaps it is because I haven't eaten a hamburger in 35 years - fast food or otherwise - that the thought of eating one behind the wheel of a car, much less with utensils (as a civilized person!!!) just put me over the edge.

As to McDonald's, I was never so happy to see one of these outlets as I was my last night in Spain, in a little town outside Barcelona on a fiesta day, when the only alternative for eats was a 28 euro dinner.

I think we need to lighten up a bit here. (Oops, I did say I was going to stay out of the line of fire.)

 

[Albertagirl]

Must admit I got a tremendous chuckle out of this post; I thought it was very much tongue in cheek, and very clever. Perhaps it is because I haven't eaten a hamburger in 35 years - fast food or otherwise - that the thought of eating one behind the wheel of a car, much less with utensils (as a civilized person!!!) just put me over the edge.

As to McDonald's, I was never so happy to see one of these outlets as I was my last night in Spain, in a little town outside Barcelona on a fiesta day, when the only alternative for eats was a 28 euro dinner.

I think we need to lighten up a bit here. (Oops, I did say I was going to stay out of the line of fire.)

Last year, I spent a lot of time in the downtown McDonald's in Auckland, N.Z. I didn't eat the food, but every time I needed a place to wait for my next early morning bus connection, I bought a mocha or other fancy coffee, just as good as Starbucks and a lot cheaper. I took a table, turned on my ipad and caught up with my emails on their free wifi, while I sipped my coffee for any length of time. Most mornings, a senior gentleman came in, took the table next to me, and played his guitar for some time. A cleaner was very busy keeping the place spotless. Street people would come in and spend considerable time in the washroom with no one hassling them. When everything else was shut, McDonald's was making coffee and community for the early morning people in Auckland. I don't eat their food, but I was grateful for their presence, and I told the cleaner so, and expressed my thanks to the musician. Sometimes, a McDonald's is all there is, and it can be very good.

 

[Dutch]

Nothing wrong with a good burger if it is good quality meat. Then it has nothing to do with fast food.

In Burgos put your back towards the cathedral, walk under the arch in front of you and turn right straight away. After 50 meters on your right you will find Hamburgueseria Isla. Excellent top quality hamburgers made from prime spanish beef to kobé beef and many other options AND they give you utensils which your allowed to use

The owner speaks good english and really loves his products. Go on, skip a pilgrim menu and eat something nice for a change

 

[Ottawa123]

Another thing I noticed, table etiquette-wise, are the number of people "fixing" their feet at the table (at cafes mostly, but alberghes as well). Ew.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Nothing wrong with a good burger if it is good quality meat. Then it has nothing to do with fast food.

In Burgos put your back towards the cathedral, walk under the arch in front of you and turn right straight away. After 50 meters on your right you will find Hamburgueseria Isla. Excellent top quality hamburgers made from prime spanish beef to kobé beef and many other options AND they give you utensils which your allowed to use

The owner speaks good english and really loves his products. Go on, skip a pilgrim menu and eat something nice for a change

Is noted , thank you for the intel . Wish you well , Peter .

 

[Bernard duffy]

Nothing wrong with a good burger if it is good quality meat. Then it has nothing to do with fast food.

In Burgos put your back towards the cathedral, walk under the arch in front of you and turn right straight away. After 50 meters on your right you will find Hamburgueseria Isla. Excellent top quality hamburgers made from prime spanish beef to kobé beef and many other options AND they give you utensils which your allowed to use

The owner speaks good english and really loves his products. Go on, skip a pilgrim menu and eat something nice for a change

I concur sir,a damn fine burger n a few cold beers were dispatched here.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Nothing wrong with a good burger if it is good quality meat. Then it has nothing to do with fast food.

In Burgos put your back towards the cathedral, walk under the arch in front of you and turn right straight away. After 50 meters on your right you will find Hamburgueseria Isla. Excellent top quality hamburgers made from prime spanish beef to kobé beef and many other options AND they give you utensils which your allowed to use

The owner speaks good english and really loves his products. Go on, skip a pilgrim menu and eat something nice for a change

Hamburgers are delicious!
A side note about me: my husband and I raise grass-fed beef. Typically, we raise five to seven per year. Let me tell you, the fresh air, sunshine, fresh grass, and roaming around our acreage grazing on windfall apples and figs ensures that that ground beef is superior. The meat from these cattle is absolutely delicious, and a further note, when I lived in Cambodia and worked with the Australians (through international Development Project), I was introduced to the Aussie fascination with dressing the humble hamburger in colorful finery. YES to beets and eggs! Delicioso!

 

[Robo]

Hamburgers are delicious!
A side note about me: my husband and I raise grass-fed beef. Typically, we raise five to seven per year. Let me tell you, the fresh air, sunshine, fresh grass, and roaming around our acreage grazing on windfall apples and figs ensures that that ground beef is superior. The meat from these cattle is absolutely delicious, and a further note, when I lived in Cambodia and worked with the Australians (through international Development Project), I was introduced to the Aussie fascination with dressing the humble hamburger in colorful finery. YES to beets and eggs! Delicioso!

Yum! All previous joking apart, a really good beef burger can be delicious. But what wine goes best with it? Maybe a Shiraz?

 

[naplesdon]

Yum! All previous joking apart, a really good beef burger can be delicious. But what wine goes best with it? Maybe a Shiraz?

A rose from Provence in the summer or a full bodied Irouleguy red in the winter.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Yum! All previous joking apart, a really good beef burger can be delicious. But what wine goes best with it? Maybe a Shiraz?

ice-cold beer is suggested--if possible and available, Ruby from McMenamin's.

 

[waveprof]

Nothing wrong with a good burger if it is good quality meat. Then it has nothing to do with fast food.

In Burgos put your back towards the cathedral, walk under the arch in front of you and turn right straight away. After 50 meters on your right you will find Hamburgueseria Isla. Excellent top quality hamburgers made from prime spanish beef to kobé beef and many other options AND they give you utensils which your allowed to use

The owner speaks good english and really loves his products. Go on, skip a pilgrim menu and eat something nice for a change

And then go to Sucrem and get an ice cream. No, stop that. everyone must go to Sucrem regardless of if they eat burgers. It should be required of anyone arriving in Burgos (even if it is winter time).

Here's the link so that you can travel in your mind http://sucrem.com/

 

[ivar]

I think the point has been made about "Table etiquette on the Camino", and then the thread got sidetracked somehow onto topics not really related to the Camino. Will close the thread so that we can move on to other Camino related topics.