Thefts from pilgrims in albergues - Logrono and Estella

[Bradypus]

Diario de Navarra is reporting the arrest of a man in Estella in connection with thefts from pilgrims in albergues in Logrono and Estella, as well as the theft of a handbag during mass in a church in Estella. The man had been walking the Camino and staying in albergues. On arrest he was also found to be carrying prohibited weapons.

El peregrino de la mano larga en Estella

Un hombre de 53 años fue detenido en Estella por la Guardia Civil y la Policía Municipal tras cometer dos hurtos en sendos albergues y robar un bolso a una mujer durante una misa. Todo en 4 días

www.diariodenavarra.es

 

[Tincatinker]

Hmm, seems an odd time of year for a predator with the crowds thinning out.

Still, one down

 

[dick bird]

Diario de Navarra is reporting the arrest of a man in Estella in connection with thefts from pilgrims in albergues in Logrono and Estella, as well as the theft of a handbag during mass in a church in Estella. The man had been walking the Camino and staying in albergues. On arrest he was also found to be carrying prohibited weapons.

El peregrino de la mano larga en Estella

Un hombre de 53 años fue detenido en Estella por la Guardia Civil y la Policía Municipal tras cometer dos hurtos en sendos albergues y robar un bolso a una mujer durante una misa. Todo en 4 días

www.diariodenavarra.es

From the account, he seems to be an astonishingly inept petty thief. Nonetheless, a good reason to keep your eye on your valuables.

 

[Bradypus]

Hmm, seems an odd time of year for a predator with the crowds thinning out.

He may not have been the sharpest tool in the box. But I didn't like the look of his cutlery collection. Does he do a lot of fish filleting?

 

[muddy-mama]

Late September the company I used to carry my bag on the CP started asking for the money to be paid by paypal because of thefts from envelopes

 

[henrythedog]

He may not have been the sharpest tool in the box. But I didn't like the look of his cutlery collection. Does he do a lot of fish filleting?

An itinerant electrician who specialises in working round corners?

 

[Bogong]

Hmm, seems an odd time of year for a predator with the crowds thinning out.

Still, one down

Not quite odd, Tincatinker. My winter walk was marked by very few pilgrims. With a huge crowd to mark my night in albergue Santo Espiritu in Carrion de los Condes, possibly all of six people, a scruffy gentleman came to stay. He had a pilgrim backpack and staff but a very well-worn pair of boots which would scarecely have lasted a mile of hard walking. My two Catalan friends, Roberto and Jose( we met up occasionally) warned me about him. Halfway through the night a sixth sense woke me and I rolled over to find someone trying to rifle through my pack. I jumped him and pinned him down and Roberto woke up and helped me sort things out ( he didn’t get anything). He was thoroughly frightened, good to say. While at the other end of the dormitory I think he targeted me because I was the smallest and oldest there.

It seems he was a local and made a habit of this as I subsequently found a reference in Brierley to someone almost certainly this person in this town.

So irrespective of the season or the foot traffic, people should always be on guard.

De colores

Bogong

 

[Tincatinker]

They’re always there for sure. Just it’s easier to hide in a crowd

 

[Sue127]

Such a pity, in this day and age, that we cannot trust everyone

 

[dick bird]

Such a pity, in this day and age, that we cannot trust everyone

Have you read the Codex Calextinus? It was probably written by a French monk called Aymeric Picaud and certainly in the twelfth century. It contains an abundance of advice and guidance to pilgrims, including warnings about thieves, con artists, and bandits. Plus ça change, plus la meme chose.

 

[williamlittig]

Diario de Navarra is reporting the arrest of a man in Estella in connection with thefts from pilgrims in albergues in Logrono and Estella, as well as the theft of a handbag during mass in a church in Estella. The man had been walking the Camino and staying in albergues. On arrest he was also found to be carrying prohibited weapons.

El peregrino de la mano larga en Estella

Un hombre de 53 años fue detenido en Estella por la Guardia Civil y la Policía Municipal tras cometer dos hurtos en sendos albergues y robar un bolso a una mujer durante una misa. Todo en 4 días

www.diariodenavarra.es

Registration at Albergues is important. Forms are forwarded to the authorities and tracking "no goods" has results.

 

[Bradypus]

Registration at Albergues is important. Forms are forwarded to the authorities and tracking "no goods" has results.

From the news article it seems that the local police and Guardia Civil had no difficulty in following this man's trail. Of course staying in albergues and collecting sellos in a credencial would have made it less of a challenge even for an armchair detective like me!

 

[Sue127]

Have you read the Codex Calextinus? It was probably written by a French monk called Aymeric Picaud and certainly in the twelfth century. It contains an abundance of advice and guidance to pilgrims, including warnings about thieves, con artists, and bandits. Plus ça change, plus la meme chose.

I haven't read it yet, but will. Maybe I should change my post to "it's a shame that we cannot trust everyone". It unfortunately adds a level of concern to what I see as a special way of traveling, unencumbered by potential issues of trust and enhanced by a shared respect of and friendly acknowledgement of others, walking the same path.

 

[Bradypus]

It unfortunately adds a level of concern to what I see as a special way of traveling, unencumbered by potential issues of trust and enhanced by a shared respect of and friendly acknowledgement of others, walking the same path.

Sadly the Caminos are not a special case - no matter how much those of us who love walking them may wish otherwise. In some ways the warmth, trust and generosity which many pilgrims bring with them make them especially tempting targets for the criminally inclined. Can you imagine the perennial "donations for the deaf" scam persisting for decades in any Spanish town unless the culprits had a constant fresh supply of well-intentioned but gullible pilgrims to prey upon?

 

[Sue127]

Sadly the Caminos are not a special case - no matter how much those of us who love walking them may wish otherwise. In some ways the warmth, trust and generosity which many pilgrims bring with them make them especially tempting targets for the criminally inclined. Can you imagine the perennial "donations for the deaf" scam persisting for decades in any Spanish town unless the culprits had a constant fresh supply of well-intentioned but gullible pilgrims to prey upon?

I totally understand and agree, but that doesn't stop me wishing otherwise. I'm also well aware of the fact that media, of all types, has brought to our attention more and more, the problems of our times. Years ago we were more oblivious to them, not that that was a good thing either.
There is one good thing that came out of the original posting, I know my Spanish is slowly improving as I was able to understand much of the article without translating it! There's hope for me yet

 

[Bradypus]

Have you read the Codex Calextinus? It was probably written by a French monk called Aymeric Picaud and certainly in the twelfth century. It contains an abundance of advice and guidance to pilgrims, including warnings about thieves, con artists, and bandits. Plus ça change, plus la meme chose.

Interesting that you mentioned old Aymeric. Just came across a long article on the many hazards that medieval pilgrims faced. Of course Aymeric gets a mention in it Lots of examples of thefts from pilgrims and the very robust response from local authorities!

Los peligros del Camino de Santiago

Miles de fieles procedentes de todo el orbe cristiano se encaminaban cada año hacia Compostela para visitar la tumba del apóstol. La falta de señales, los bandidos y los posaderos sin escrúpulos convertían la ruta en una odisea.

historia.nationalgeographic.com.es

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Of course staying in albergues and collecting sellos in a credencial would have made it less of a challenge even for an armchair detective like me!

You are a good armchair detective; grubs, robins and cardinals.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Interesting that you mentioned old Aymeric. Just came across a long article on the many hazards that medieval pilgrims faced. Of course Aymeric gets a mention in it Lots of examples of thefts from pilgrims and the very robust response from local authorities!

I think mankind has always been a merging of the good, bad and ugly...no matter the century.

 

[WGroleau]

There is one good thing that came out of the original posting, I know my Spanish is slowly improving as I was able to understand much of the article without translating it! There's hope for me yet

As a former (amateur) Spanish teacher, I can recommend "keep doing that." Hearing or reading things you understand improves whatever it is in the brain that does the understanding. Language teachers call that "comprehensible input."

 

[Sue127]

As a former (amateur) Spanish teacher, I can recommend "keep doing that." Hearing or reading things you understand improves whatever it is in the brain that does the understanding. Language teachers call that "comprehensible input."

Certainly agree. As a teacher of English as a foreign language, I've certainly witnessed that the more a student understands or is familiar with a situation, the more successful they are (usually) at guessing meaning. Oops! I think we just deviated from the context of the OP

 

[David61]

Have you read the Codex Calextinus? It was probably written by a French monk called Aymeric Picaud and certainly in the twelfth century. It contains an abundance of advice and guidance to pilgrims, including warnings about thieves, con artists, and bandits. Plus ça change, plus la meme chose.

Jack? Is that you Jack from Ireland?

 

[dick bird]

Jack? Is that you Jack from Ireland?

Afraid not. Sorry.

 

[David61]

Afraid not. Sorry.

Sorry, its a reference to the "Famous Film".

 

[dennisA]

Have you read the Codex Calextinus? It was probably written by a French monk called Aymeric Picaud and certainly in the twelfth century. It contains an abundance of advice and guidance to pilgrims, including warnings about thieves, con artists, and bandits. Plus ça change, plus la meme chose.

You can obtain an english version from the Camino shop in the cathedral. Some interesting information is in there. I quote on page 28/29 "For just one coin a Navarrese or a Basque kill, if they can, a Frechman. In some of their regions, mainly in Biscay and Alva, The Navarrese man and woman show their private parts to each other while they warm themselves." it goes on but i wont repeat it as its a public forum here.
The book is published by Alvarellos Editora ISBN 9788416460755.

 

[David Tallan]

You can obtain an english version from the Camino shop in the cathedral. Some interesting information is in there. I quote on page 28/29 "For just one coin a Navarrese or a Basque kill, if they can, a Frechman. In some of their regions, mainly in Biscay and Alva, The Navarrese man and woman show their private parts to each other while they warm themselves." it goes on but i wont repeat it as its a public forum here.
The book is published by Alvarellos Editora ISBN 9788416460755.

For a scholarly and academic translation of the same work, you may want to check out The Pilgrim's Guide to Santiago edited and translated by William Melczer (with much accompanying material), published by Italica Press in 1993 (ISBN: 978-0-934977-25-8).

 

[dick bird]

For a scholarly and academic translation of the same work, you may want to check out The Pilgrim's Guide to Santiago edited and translated by William Melczer (with much accompanying material), published by Italica Press in 1993 (ISBN: 978-0-934977-25-8).

I sometimes wonder dear old Aymeric would say if he were posting on the forum. I suspect that a good few of his posts would have fallen foul of the rules and been deleted. All good stuff though.

 

[AidaYYC]

Diario de Navarra is reporting the arrest of a man in Estella in connection with thefts from pilgrims in albergues in Logrono and Estella, as well as the theft of a handbag during mass in a church in Estella. The man had been walking the Camino and staying in albergues. On arrest he was also found to be carrying prohibited weapons.

El peregrino de la mano larga en Estella

Un hombre de 53 años fue detenido en Estella por la Guardia Civil y la Policía Municipal tras cometer dos hurtos en sendos albergues y robar un bolso a una mujer durante una misa. Todo en 4 días

www.diariodenavarra.es

I am glad that he was caught. Spain has made very good efforts in guarding the safety of the pilgrims. I personally witnessed the Civil Guard as well as the local police, including the National Police patrolling being very vigilant and even at times being very helpful and always very polite even on those times when I was on the roads very early in the mornings.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Late September the company I used to carry my bag on the CP started asking for the money to be paid by paypal because of thefts from envelopes

Ah, had been wondering why more and more frequently, packs are being sent from bar to bar, rather than between Albergues.

 

[AidaYYC]

Ah, had been wondering why more and more frequently, packs are being sent from bar to bar, rather than between Albergues.

I faced many of these instances and the explanation was municipal albergues have experienced some irregularities with suspect backpacks and they no longer want any part of it. So popular bars are the alternatives.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Backpack transport started, so far as I know, when Jesus Jato started hauling pilgrims' bags from Albergue Ave Fenix up to O'Cebreiro, back when there were NO albergues in those 30 uphill kilmeters from Villafranca de Bierzo. It was the toughest day on the camino. He stepped up. It was the only service of its kind in 2001, when I first encountered it.
Soon a few enterprising taxistas carried rucksacks between one albergue and the next over longer stretches, when there was usually only one or two albergues per town, and no other option. Even then, lots of albergues refused to take backpacks sent ahead. Carrying your gear was part of the pilgrim identity. Then came JacoTrans, and a plethora of private albergues, pensions, hotels and hostels that took deliveries. The trail changed. The pilgrims changed, the ethos changed.
Luggage services grew accustomed to dropping off pilgrim parcels where they always did, and it didn't occur to them to offer the albergue any recompense for their providing this service, even if many pilgrims who sent their bags to said albergue had no intention of staying there. So the old albergue, often staffed by volunteers, provided a free luggage drop-off and pick-up service for all the surrounding inns, and dealt with accompanying problems when someone's bag went astray. Nowadays, some luggage services expect to be provided with keys to the albergues, so they can drop off and pick up bags when the hospis are not there.
Lately, many travelers are sending actual wheeled luggage, medical and camera gear, and electronic doodads that require special care and handling... This is not pilgrim gear. So pilgrim-dedicated albergues have decided to get out of the free tourist luggage-guardian business. Bars are picking up the slack.
It's Capitalism in action.

 

[Bradypus]

Then came JacoTrans, and a plethora of private albergues, pensions, hotels and hostels that took deliveries. The trail changed. The pilgrims changed, the ethos changed.

That has been my experience over the years. Walking the Camino Frances used to be far more physically demanding than it is now. Most pilgrims in the 1980s and 1990s were fairly young and fit and accepted the difficulties of walking as part of the experience. With the rise of luggage transport services and private accommodation the Camino has become a marketable commodity and my impression is that far more people are now arriving with a different and more entitled "consumer" mindset.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

That has been my experience over the years. Walking the Camino Frances used to be far more physically demanding than it is now. Most pilgrims in the 1980s and 1990s were fairly young and fit and accepted the difficulties of walking as part of the experience. With the rise of luggage transport services and private accommodation the Camino has become a marketable commodity and my impression is that far more people are now arriving with a different and more entitled "consumer" mindset.

Yes, but we are not allowed to say that. It's THEIR Camino. EVERYONE is a pilgrim.

 

[trecile]

In just the 6 years since I first walked the Camino I have noticed a marked rise in the number of posts asking about pack transport, both here and on FB groups like Camigas. I suppose that it's good for the local economy, but it makes me a little sad.

 

[Kanga]

Yes, but we are not allowed to say that. It's THEIR Camino. EVERYONE is a pilgrim.

In just the 6 years since I first walked the Camino I have noticed a marked rise in the number of posts asking about pack transport, both here and on FB groups like Camigas. I suppose that it's good for the local economy, but it makes me a little sad.

Agree. Luggage transport I think is the thing that has most changed the experience. To carry your own possessions teaches so much. Freedom. Discipline. Values. Self confidence. Gratitude.

 

[nycwalking]

I trekked first camino in 2001. I never heard about pack transport.

In 2002 at Maribel’s albergue in Cizur Menor the service was offered. Our packs were taken to an albergue in Puente de la Reina where we were expected to spend the night.

To my knowledge that was the only time mochila transfer was offered.

 

[dick bird]

Backpack transport started, so far as I know, when Jesus Jato started hauling pilgrims' bags from Albergue Ave Fenix up to O'Cebreiro, back when there were NO albergues in those 30 uphill kilmeters from Villafranca de Bierzo. It was the toughest day on the camino. He stepped up. It was the only service of its kind in 2001, when I first encountered it.
Soon a few enterprising taxistas carried rucksacks between one albergue and the next over longer stretches, when there was usually only one or two albergues per town, and no other option. Even then, lots of albergues refused to take backpacks sent ahead. Carrying your gear was part of the pilgrim identity. Then came JacoTrans, and a plethora of private albergues, pensions, hotels and hostels that took deliveries. The trail changed. The pilgrims changed, the ethos changed.
Luggage services grew accustomed to dropping off pilgrim parcels where they always did, and it didn't occur to them to offer the albergue any recompense for their providing this service, even if many pilgrims who sent their bags to said albergue had no intention of staying there. So the old albergue, often staffed by volunteers, provided a free luggage drop-off and pick-up service for all the surrounding inns, and dealt with accompanying problems when someone's bag went astray. Nowadays, some luggage services expect to be provided with keys to the albergues, so they can drop off and pick up bags when the hospis are not there.
Lately, many travelers are sending actual wheeled luggage, medical and camera gear, and electronic doodads that require special care and handling... This is not pilgrim gear. So pilgrim-dedicated albergues have decided to get out of the free tourist luggage-guardian business. Bars are picking up the slack.
It's Capitalism in action.

That's interesting. This April, the community owned donativo we worked in told us very firmly that yes, they did accept couriered backpacks, somewhat to our surprise as previous donativos we worked in had said no. It wasn't actually a good arrangement as the bags always arrived when the albergue was closed and usually when we were either busy, out, or both. We would have to leave the door unlocked and the driver would dump the bags inside, not ideal even though it was a small village. We certainly weren't going to add to our chores by hanging around waiting for the Jacotrans driver to arrive. Bag transfer is becoming much more common along the Francés, along with a lot of other changes. We may not like it but local communities are having to adapt in whatever way they can. I only hope the bars that function as dropping off points get a cut. And yes, we were very much taken aback by the size and nature of some of those bags being dropped off, but to be fair, the owners invariably stayed with us.

 

[AllanWeaver]

Have you read the Codex Calextinus? It was probably written by a French monk called Aymeric Picaud and certainly in the twelfth century. It contains an abundance of advice and guidance to pilgrims, including warnings about thieves, con artists, and bandits. Plus ça change, plus la meme chose.

The thieves, con artists & bandits, could also be poor, hungry & desperate & there but for the grace of God.

 

[SabsP]

The thieves, con artists & bandits, could also be poor, hungry & desperate & there but for the grace of God.

I hope you will still have the same perspective when your bag might be stolen when walking your Camino.
And I hope you do not imply that the poor, hungry & desperate are per definition thieves, con artists or bandits?
Professionally I work with poor and sometimes hungry people and they do not steal. They try to survive in an honest way.

 

[AllanWeaver]

I hope you will still have the same perspective when your bag might be stolen when walking your Camino.
And I hope you do not imply that the poor, hungry & desperate are per definition thieves, con artists or bandits?
Professionally I work with poor and sometimes hungry people and they do not steal. They try to survive in an honest way.

No that was not what was I was implying but having worked for decades with people who are poor and those who have offended, there is a direct relationship between poverty and acquisitive crimes in many instances - of course not all!

 

[SabsP]

No that was not what was I was implying but having worked for decades with people who are poor and those who have offended, there is a direct relationship between poverty and acquisitive crimes in many instances - of course not all!

I beg to differ because I find your expressed view rather paternalistic and morally not correct.But I do not want to hijack this thread anymore.

In my worldview you keep your hands from someone else's stuff. And yes I am also full of compassion for those in dire need but if someone steals my backpack I will not " turn the other cheek".

Buen Camino.

 

[dick bird]

The thieves, con artists & bandits, could also be poor, hungry & desperate & there but for the grace of God.

Then and now. I was simply making the comment that some things don't change, injustice and inequality being two of the foremost.

 

[AllanWeaver]

I beg to differ because I find your expressed view rather paternalistic and morally not correct.But I do not want to hijack this thread anymore.

In my worldview you keep your hands from someone else's stuff. And yes I am also full of compassion for those in dire need but if someone steals my backpack I will not " turn the other cheek".

Buen Camino.

Buen Camino

 

[Kathor1]

Just for the sake of historical accuracy and because I am too lazy to re-read Book I (various sermons) and Book V ("pilgrim's guidebook") of the Codex Calixtinus: Can someone refresh my memory, please?

Because I don't recall having read a single incident where a pilgrim stole from another pilgrim a thousand years ago. Innkeepers and their family members are mentioned as stealing from pilgrims or otherwise cheating on them (no police station nearby, no AlertCops app and no mandatory complaint form in those days), ferrymen and highwaymen as threatening the lives of pilgrims and that of their horses, and the odd pilgrim may have misbehaved against locals and was duly and promptly punished by Saint James but, unlike reported in current news in the original post, pilgrims stealing from other pilgrims and even during mass? I don't remember having read that in the Codex Calixtinus ...

 

[Bradypus]

unlike reported in current news in the original post, pilgrims stealing from other pilgrims and even during mass? I don't remember having read that in the Codex Calixtinus ...

The National Geographic article I linked in an earlier post states that pilgrims stealing from others was not that rare an event! Two incidents in particular get a mention as examples: "Other times those punished were criminals posing as pilgrims . Thus, in 1337, a certain Thomas of London, a false English pilgrim, was tried and hanged for stealing from a pilgrim six gold guilders that he was carrying hidden in his sleeve. The same fate befell another Genoese pilgrim for taking objects from the Asturian temple of Salas, on the Primitive Way." (Google Translate from this article: https://historia.nationalgeographic.com.es/a/peligros-camino-santiago-2_18516/amp )

 

[Kathor1]

https://historia.nationalgeographic.com.es/a/peligros-camino-santiago-2_18516/amp )

Thanks, I had not seen this article. Of course, the image that they had chosen for their article about the dangers of the Camino de Santiago in earlier times annoyed me already : it is an illustration of Chaucer's Canterbury pilgrims.

 

[Bradypus]

Thanks, I had not seen this article. Of course, the image that they had chosen for their article about the dangers of the Camino de Santiago in earlier times annoyed me already : it is an illustration of Chaucer's Canterbury pilgrims.

That sort of thing winds me up too. There is a Youtube video of Allegri's Miserere. Perhaps the most exclusively and distinctly Catholic piece of music ever written: specifically composed for Holy Week services in the Sistine Chapel and for a century or more it was forbidden to copy the music and perform it anywhere else. But the person posting a recording on Youtube chose to illustrate it with dozens of photographs of Orthodox priests. Why???

 

[JabbaPapa]

JacoTrans already existed in 1993, though IIRC they did not at the time operate everywhere along the Camino. They were more visible in 1994 than the previous year.

I can certainly remember, on my 1994, advising one elderly peregrina, clearly suffering and clearly physically incapable of carrying her pack all of the way, to use the pack transport service.

At the time, the system of little envelopes didn't exist, but you needed to arrange the pack transport with the hospitalero.