Trying to decide - Frances o Primitivo?

[PadreQ]

Hola a todos,

I walked the Frances in September/October of 2011. And had a wonderful time, but I did get in a bit of a rush from Triacastela on to SdC (trying not to miss the flight of the Botafumeiro!). I have a 2 week window, the beginning of October this Fall. I had initially thought I would do Orbigo or Astorga to Santiago and savor it this time. It is hard to beat the Valcarce in my mind...

But then I started looking at the Primitivo.....

Can I do Oviedo to SdC comfortably in 13 days?

How easy is it to travel from Madrid to Oviedo - I'll be flying in from Dallas, Texas and I can get a direct flight from DFW to Madrid - Do I try to fly to Oviedo or is there a good train connection?

How do costs compare per day - Frances to Primitivo?

How about eating on the Primitivo - bars & restaurants? or feed your self and carry groceries?

What is the traffic like in October? A fair number of fellow pilgrims? I'm not particularly wanting a 2 week solo hike.

I would appreciate any wisdom you can throw my way.

What to do...

PadreQ

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, PadreQ,

I of course won't presume to tell you which to walk, but I have walked the Primitivo twice and loved it both times. I did it once in 11 days and once in 12. The stages are here:

camino-primitivo/topic4841.html (2008, 11 days)

camino-primitivo/topic14728.html (2012, 12 days)

My first walk was in October, the second in June. You will not be alone. The Primitivo is becoming very popular, and even in 2008 I had a nice group of companions.

As far as travel goes, I would check into adding on the Madrid-Asturias (airport is equi-distant from Oviedo, Gijon, and Aviles) segment and a Santiago-Madrid segments to your air ticket. I did that this year and was quite surprised that it didn't cost much more to add on a Madrid to Valencia flight and then a Santiago to Madrid flight on the return. (they call this open jaw, I've been told). That also saves you a day because you can fly Santiago to Madrid on a 9 am flight and easily make the Madrid-Dallas flight. And if you are late arriving in Madrid, it will be the airline's problem to figure out how to get you to Dallas. If your train or bus is late into Madrid and you miss your flight, oh well too bad for you.

There are plenty of trains to Oviedo, they leave from Chamartin.
I don't think the costs are very different, lots of albergues, lots of menus del dia.

The Primitivo has a lot of fans on this forum, and you'll see lots of discussions if you scroll through that section of the forum.

I have nothing against the Frances, but the Primitivo is really special. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[PadreQ]

I very much appreciate your response Laurie,

Reading your posts is really what got me started thinking about the Primitivo. When I did the Frances in 2011, I did an open jaw ticket - I flew in to Barcelona and then home on the aforementioned 9:00 from Santiago-Madrid and the Dallas connection was very easy in Madrid.

I'm leaning more that way by the minute.

Thanks,

Chris+

 

[amancio]

Hola PadreQ!

please find my suggestions below in ALL CAPS!

Hola a todos,

I walked the Frances in September/October of 2011. And had a wonderful time, but I did get in a bit of a rush from Triacastela on to SdC (trying not to miss the flight of the Botafumeiro!). I have a 2 week window, the beginning of October this Fall. I had initially thought I would do Orbigo or Astorga to Santiago and savor it this time. It is hard to beat the Valcarce in my mind...

But then I started looking at the Primitivo.....

Can I do Oviedo to SdC comfortably in 13 days?

YES, IT CAN BE DONE IN THOSE MANY DAYS, EVEN TAKING THE FRIOL-SOBRADO DIVERSION FROM LUGO


How easy is it to travel from Madrid to Oviedo - I'll be flying in from Dallas, Texas and I can get a direct flight from DFW to Madrid - Do I try to fly to Oviedo or is there a good train connection?

THERE SHOULD BE PRETTY GOOD TRAIN CONNECTIONS. IN FACT, THE TRAIN BETWEEN LEON AND OVIEDO IS PROBABLY THE MOST BEAUTIFUL RAILWAY STRETCH IN SPAIN. ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS. IF YOU CANNOT MAKE IT DIRECTLY TO OVIEDO, TRY TO MAKE IT TO LEON, THERE ARE LOTS OF CONNECTIONS BETWEEN LEON AND OVIEDO, VIA BUS OR TRAIN.

How do costs compare per day - Frances to Primitivo?

I WOULD SAY ABOUT THE SAME

How about eating on the Primitivo - bars & restaurants? or feed your self and carry groceries?

THERE IS A BIT OF EVERYTHING. FOOD IS A LOT BETTER IN THE PRIMITIVO, THOUGH. THERE ARE QUITE A FEW PLACES WHERE YOU CANNOT FIND GROCERIES, SO YOU MUST PREPARE YOURSELF IN ADVANCE.

What is the traffic like in October? A fair number of fellow pilgrims? I'm not particularly wanting a 2 week solo hike.

OCTOBER SHOULD BE QUIET, I WOULD SAY, AND IT COULD BE VERY DAMP AND MUDDY TOO, YOU WILL NOT FIND CROWDS AT ALL.

I would appreciate any wisdom you can throw my way.

IN OCTOBER, YOU CAN ALSO TRY THE CAMINO SANABRES FROM ZAMORA, THERE SHOULD BE A FEW MORE PEOPLE THAN IN THE PRIMITIVO. OTHERWISE, IF YOU WANT COMPANY, GO FRANCES, UNDOUBTEDLY, IN OCTOBER SOME ALBERGUES MIGHT BE EVEN CLOSED FOR THE SEASON.

What to do...

WHAT TO DO: BUEN CAMINO WHICHEVER WAY YOU TAKE!!!
PadreQ

 

[peregrina2000]

Good to have amancio here on the forum -- I frequently read his sage advice on the Spanish language forum and he knows what he's talking about.

I walked Zamora-Santiago in 14 days in June, and the stages were not out of reach for me, but in part that was because I had already been walking a month from Valencia to Zamora. I think that unless you are in the "super walker" category, fewer than 14 days would be tough. It's a beautiful camino, that's for sure.

When I walked the Primitivo in October 2008, there was never a problem with albergues being closed, and there were several new albergues in June 2012, so I'm betting that you will easily find accommodations.

The weather is CRAZY, so you just never know. I had more rain in June 2012 than in October 2008, so who knows.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Normita]

Just came back from my first camino, te PRIMITIVO and I really disliked the final kilometers from Melide where you find just too many "turigrinos".

We did it in 11 walking days (+1 day break in Lugo) by taking the short routes, both times the traditional route, going the route over Hospitales. Greatest and most challenging experience since long (as long as I can remember...)!!!

 

[PadreQ]

Please be kind enough to share your stages. I'm looking for all the wisdom I can find.

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[peregrina2000]

Yes, Normita, I'll second that request, because I just could not figure out how to walk the Primitivo in 11 days if I wanted to do the Hospitales route. So I wound up with a 12 day journey my second time. And you apparently figured it out, 11 days plus Hospitales, so I'd love to see your stages! Thanks, Laurie

 

[PadreQ]

A practical question - What is the availability of ATMs like on the primitivo? Is Lugo it once you leave Oviedo? So how much cash is it reasonable to carry?

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, PadreQ,

ATMs are not a problem. I just scanned through the towns quickly (mundicamino lists bank and ATM availability). You'll find them at least in Grado, Salas, Tineo, Grandas de Salime, Fonsagrada, Cadavo, Castroverde, and Melide.

So, whether you take out the max and then let it dwindle down, or take out small amounts every few days, you'll be fine. I also found last year that I could use my credit card in many more supermarkets and shops than on my first Primitivo. I've been told that is the best practice in general because the rate is always better for credit cards than cash withdrawals, but that's just what I've been told.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[PadreQ]

I have decided to go for it - Primitivo it is. Thanks for your wisdom, Laurie. Now, I am praying for clear and dry October weather in Austurias.

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[amancio]

Hola Padre!

these were my stages

Escamplero (half day after doing some tourism in Oviedo)
Cornellana
Bodenaya
Campiello
Berducedo
Castro
Fonsagrada
Cádavo
Lugo
Friol
Sobrado
Pedrouzo
Santiago

I avoided on purpose all the most usual ends of day (Grado, Salas, Tineo, Pola, Grandas), I prefer smaller, less known places like Cornella, Bodenaya or Castro. From Lugo onwards, I chose to go via Friol-Sobrado dos Monxes, and it was a great stretch of Camino, worth it in my opinion.

Buen camino!!!

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, Amancio,

Thanks for posting your stages-- gives people yet another idea about how to slice things up.

I have been past the albergue in Castro twice (it's about 5 kms after Grandas de Salime), but both times it has been full, not with pilgrims but with other groups. It is in a very nice spot, and I would love to visit the prehistoric castro and museum that are right there, so I guess I'll have to try a third time.

My advice would be that if you plan to stay in Castro, call the albergue a day or so ahead to see whether they have room. The owners seem to be very considerate -- the night I stayed in Berducedo, the Castro albergue called the hospitalera to let us know that Castro would be full the next day, so we should stop in Grandas.

BTW, the albergue in Grandas is very nice (new and clean and well equipped), though the hospitalero was a bit off-putting.

I've read a lot about taking the "green arrow way" from Lugo to Friol, what are the advantages in your opinion?

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Tia Valeria]

We called ahead and booked into Castro. The folk are very friendly and it is a good private albergue which caters for youth groups too. The rooms all have 2 double bunks, 16 bed spaces total. Each room is colour coded and its seperate bathroom is the same colour. A really good idea.

The Museum opens at 11.00am, then closes at 12.00 to take visitors round the castro itself. As we had no transport, being pilgrims, we were given a ride down by the curator who then dropped us back at the albergue around 2.00pm for our lunch. It opens again in a similar way at about 4.00pm. The short day from Grandas to Castro enabled us to go round early, the hospitaleros sent us on while looking after our packs and making lunch. We were very glad as it poured with rain in the afternoon

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, Tia, I'll bet it was your description of the museum that sparked my interest. I was disappointed last year when I learned the albergue was full, but the silver lining is that it means I have one more reason to return to the Primitivo.

 

[PadreQ]

Gracias Amancio,

It helps to know how others have sliced it up. I am currently working on getting myself another day or two to give a little "cushion" for the unforeseen. I truly appreciate all the help.

 

[PadreQ]

Now, what I am curious about is - what about church? Are pilgrim masses celebrated in the evenings as they are on the Frances? Any churches not to be missed?

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[Tia Valeria]

There are not specific pilgrim masses and you would need to ask about mass times in individual places. We found many of the churches were open as we passed and we would take time to go in and sit awhile to pray. Others are closed, but have grills so that one can still stand and meditate. Terry found that many of the little 'capillas de anima' coincided with mid-day point walking and the time of the Angelus.

We have photos taken through the tiny grills of some and the open doors of others as well as inside churches. See our blog for a few of the published photos and also on Flickr here.

Lugo Cathedral is worth a visit, as is Oviedo and the Cámara Santa before you set off (open 10.00-12.00 and 16.00-18.00, special sello).

 

[PadreQ]

Tia, thank you!

I just read through your blog and perused your pictures! Wow! I hope I am up to the challenge - I wish I had the time to take that you did. Unfortunately I will have to step a bit more lively. The temptation to jump to Tineo to buy some time is a real one, but I do think I want the satisfaction of walking the whole route.

It would be nice to attend Mass along the way, and I will if the opportunity presents itself.

Gracias por todos!

 

[amancio]

I've read a lot about taking the "green arrow way" from Lugo to Friol, what are the advantages in your opinion?

Buen camino, Laurie[/quote]

Hola Laurie,

the Friol diversion has several advantages

1) you can visit the amazing cript in Santa Eulalia de Bóveda (https://www.google.es/search?q=%22santa ... B400%3B266)

2) it is less crowded, although the first day does have quite a bit of tarmac.
3) the Pensión in friol will feed you very well and will give you clear directions about the way to Sobrado.
4) you see some amazing rural landscapes
5) the stretch between Friol and Sobrado is the most beautiful rural landscape in Galicia, y my opinion, with some Romanesque churches in the middle of the countryside
6) you can visit the monastry in Sobrado dos Monxes (where you join Camino del norte) and sleep with the monks and visit it. Beautiful place
7) you avoid more of the francés, joining it only in Arzúa

All in all, I was very happy I followed that route.

 

[Tia Valeria]

...... The temptation to jump to Tineo to buy some time is a real one, but I do think I want the satisfaction of walking the whole route.
........

The reason for starting in Tineo in 2012 was that we had to turn back there in 2010 so did not want to re-walk the section from Oviedo to Tineo. That part of the journey, with its problems, is in Return to the Camino - the other blog - for May 2010. Then there is 'Terry's walk to Compostela' (2009) if you want to explore further. Envious :mrgreen:
Buen Camino

 

[Kiwi-family]

I understand how joining the Frances in Arzua and so doing less of it is an attraction....HOWEVER.....my kids really want to return to Melide to buy some cookies from a particular bakery (and the kids staying home have charged us with buying more to take back with us!)

Question: can you do Lugo/Friol/Sobrado and then zip down to Melide (without walking the whole way on the road)?

Where would I find instructions?

 

[Kiwi-family]

One more question - do you remember the cost for the Pension/dinner in Friol? Thanks

 

[Kiwi-family]

And yet another question - were you using a guidebook for the Lugo/Friol/Sobrano section? Was it waymarked?

 

[mspath]

I understand how joining the Frances in Arzua and so doing less of it is an attraction....HOWEVER.....my kids really want to return to Melide to buy some cookies from a particular bakery (and the kids staying home have charged us with buying more to take back with us!)

Question: can you do Lugo/Friol/Sobrado and then zip down to Melide (without walking the whole way on the road)?

Where would I find instructions?

Rachael,

Glad to learn that you are considering a stop at Sobrado dos Monaxes on your next camino.

For more info with maps on getting there by alternative routes and NOT only from Arzua check their Spanish web >> http://www3.planalfa.es/sobrado/sobrado.htm . When it loads click on the left column Albergue and then at the bottom of that page Etapas et mapas.

In March 2007 I walked north to there from Arzua; it was quite a day! Stayed at the pilgrim albergue within the Cistercian monastery. This complex is a Baroque masterpiece, but my pilgrim dorm was a actually a renovated stable; no other pilgrims were there and it was freezing! Earlier I wandered in awe through the other structures. Attended Vespers with one other 'outsider'. The service was held in a splendid circular contemporary space. Walls were painted white or natural wood. All was lit by thick candles. The monks wearing their white robes responded in unison. It was a privilege to share such a timeless ambiance.

By the way where is that great cookie shop in Melide?

Buen Camino,

Margaret Meredith

 

[Normita]

Dear peregrinos,

Sorry for only replying now. We took all traditional routes (shortest ways).

We never had any single raindrop, the mornings were often misty and hence perfect for walking.
There was NO problem with ATMs, in every place we stopped they had ATMs. I used a credit card for this (VISA).

Day 1: Oviedo – Grado, 24,8kms
The first day we left really late after relaxed breakfast and getting lost when leaving the city  through the new housing area (we entered the artificial park somehow). We did many stops in between since it is all about getting used to the walking the first day/s. Hence, it took us ages to arrive in Grado. There we did not go into any albergue but set up our tent on a horse meadow in a corner.

Day 2: Grado – Salas, 22,7kms
We left around 9/10am ish and I had a bad day due to blisters on the small toes which impeded me from walking in my boots but made me switch to sandals…

Day 3: Salas – Borres 35,6kms
Very beautiful walks and challenging paths.

Day 4: Borres – Berducedo 24,9kms (via Hospitales)
The most challenging and hardest walk I guess. The sunw as burning the whole day. The view from the top is breathtaking, we saw several beautiful and relaxed cows and horses.
We underestimated that after having reached the highest point of the camino in Hospitales, we have not even done half way, so later it became challenging. Really difficult and physically challenging routes.

Day 5: Berducedo – Fonsagrada/Padrón 45,4kms
This was probably our worst day, we had “run” down to Grandas and arrived there already early lunch time, hence we somehow made a decision with another nice guy that we met on the camino, to go 20 kms more to Fonsagrada, since we were not exhausted yet and did not wanna stay there. In comparison to the other days where we were actually suffering we felt too good to stop… The way between Castroverde (5kms ish past Grandas) and Fonsagrada was really not beautiful. What is nice there indeed is the Alto de Acebo, we left the rout eunintentionally and went up the carretera, to get back on track we walked over the entire mountain ridge where the windmills were up, that was very impressive but also scary. We arrived in Fonsagrada around 10.30pm ish, way too late… So I do not recommend cutting this part into a one-day activity.

Day 6: Fonsagrada/Padrón – Cádavo 22,9kms
We paid for doing the overload day before (muscles and joints hurt). In Cádavo we had a nice café licor after dinner in a bar.

Day 7: Cádavo – Lugo 29,8kms
Lugo is really nice and beautiful, a nice marketplace to sit and observe. This was also a reason why we stayed there a whole day.

Day 8: Lugo – Ponte Ferreira 26,9kms
Ponte Ferreira is a MUST STAY. The albergue was private and maybe the best one we stayed in. They had a fountain/pont in the patio to bath your hurting feet. Everything is clean and has a really beautiful style. The rooms are very spacious, and for dinner they made paella for the whole group of peregrinos. Very delicious bocadillos and hospitaleros as well.

Day 9: Ponte Ferreira – Ribadiso 31,5kms
Next great albergue for summer peregrinos. After a hard day the river right next to the albergue was the best destination to reach. The 30kms are quite a tough day but it totally paid off upon arrival and sitting in this fresh and icy river. It is the first one after joining the Camino Francés, and it is indeed a big change to get used to…

Day 10: Ribadiso – Pedrouzo 23kms
Pedrouzo has been the hottest day ever, we arrived very early about 11am ish, as many others did… so we queued up by putting like 100 backpacks in a row. The best thing in town was maybe the garden hose, the rest was not very exciting actually.

Day 11: Pedrouzo – Santiago de Compostela 21,2kms
Now it was only about reaching the final destination. Santiago has a special charme and atmosphere, I would not have expected that, I love the city!


Directly afterwards and while doing it, we were thinking no way, what idea to do this, I wanna return, ... but now I am sure I will do it again some time in the future.

 

[PadreQ]

Thanks Normita!

Sounds like a couple of grueling days in there.

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[Tia Valeria]

We enjoyed Grandas, also Castro just beyond Grandas where there is a private albergue next to the church. (Castroverde is between Cadabo and Lugo - we found a good pension there). We too walked the carretera past the windmills rejoining the track at the cafe-bar Acebo. It was on the stretch after there that we had horizontal rain and took shelter in a tunnel under the new road

Our days were so much shorter than your Normita, 24kms was our maximum.

Highest point, in all ways, was coming over Puerto de Palo in the sunshine and seeing that amazing view

 

[peregrina2000]

Wow, Normita, you really did a couple of long long stages! I guess I'll stick to the 12 day Hospitales route.

I'm surprised that you were able to eat a meal in the albergue in Ponte Ferreira. When I was there (June 2012), there was no restaurant service. The only option was to buy something in a vending machine that you could heat up in the microwave. So a bunch of us went to the Casa Rural da Ponte for an overpriced but ok meal. But it sounds like things have changed.

I agree the Ponte Ferreira albergue is really nice, and what we found most appealing was that from there we were able to comfortably walk beyond Melide to Boente, where we didn't have to deal with the huge masses of the Frances. There's a nice new albergue in Boente, but not much else, so the pilgrim population is very small. From there to Arzua and then to Santiago, and I didn't feel the pilgrim crush at all till Arzua.

Castroverde (as Tia says, it's between Lugo and Cadavo, and not to be confused with Castro, which is 5 kms beyond Grandas de Salime and has a private albergue juvenil) has a nice pension and a newly inaugurated albergue. Looked nice when we walked through, but it wasn't yet open.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Normita]

The albergue in Ponte Ferreira was a blast, the hospitaleros were so nice and we had such a nice group of peregrinos, maybe cause we'd met most of them before along the way. We all had dinner (= paella valenciana) together and the bocadillos after arrival were tasty and the tinto de verano awesome. The fuente in front of the house was just right to get relaxed after the walking.

Boente we only past by and it would have been way too hot to stay there, so Ribadiso would be THE place to go if I went again during hot summer days.

Just received my pictures from the camino and am spacing out again, great experience, recommendable for everyone!

 

[PadreQ]

Well, I've done it - I booked my plane tickets today. Heading for Oviedo on September 30th, flying out of Santiago on the morning of October the 15th. I've got 14 days of walking time - it would be nice to accomplish the journey in 13 with a day to enjoy in Santiago. Time to get serious about training - if the Texas weather would just cooperate...

 

[Normita]

Great! You'll enjoy it! Say hi to the beautiful Asturian cows from me! )

 

[PadreQ]

I just shipped my boots off to the cobbler in Seattle to be resoled. The heels were pretty worn from the Camino Frances - all that road walking! I'll have about a week to walk in them before flying out for Oviedo.