Walking with a friend

[KFH]

When I walked with a friend, even though we had done a lot of walking together before departing for Spain, we really didn't walk well together. After Burgos, we walked separately. We remain friends, but I would never contemplate walking the camino with him again.

Can you please elaborate on this? What didn't work for you two? Did you gradually realize there were problems? When you say "we walked separately" do you mean just for the day but you saw each other each evening or you did the rest of the Camino on your own?

(this could probably be it's own interesting thread but I really want to hear, as I am going with my good friend)

 

[C clearly]

As you suggested, your question will make an interesting new thread, taking on a slightly different topic than the original thread where you posted. So, I have moved it, along with the quote that you referenced, to this new thread.

My response is that we can have very good friends, but to live with them day and night for 6 weeks can be a real challenge, especially when we are experiencing a new country, new activity, new friends and physical demands! It is a good idea to discuss in advance how to approach the inevitable annoyances and differences of opinion.

 

[Former member 104756]

@KFH Ive walked Caminos alone, with my husband, and with a dear friend, twice - 5 years apart. It was a wonderful experience for us both and I would do it again and so would she. And I hope we have the opportunity.

But, she is perhaps thé only friend I could spend a month walking with. We share a lot of the same values and approach to life and to thé camino - and fitness levels. Not that I’m saying that’s essential, but it probably helped us have such a harmonious and rewarding camino together.

We walked ‘together’ - not always side by side, but starting and finishing the day together. It did not stop us having time on our own or meeting and enjoying the company of others. And we are both independent to continue on our own if for some reason the other wanted to stop.

So I think it really depends on the person and your relationship. And I heartily endorse what @C clearly recommends.

It is a good idea to discuss in advance how to approach the inevitable annoyances and differences of opinion.

Buen camino to you both

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I walked a large portion of the Via Podiensis in 2018 with two Camino girlfriends(not from this forum).
I'd say my experience was mostly Good, a touch of Bad, and no Ugly.
One is a retired Teacher, the other a retired Air Traffic Controller. We always walked together, except they left me behind on all the uphills because I'm s l o w, but then I scampered like a rabbit on the downhills, leaving them behind, so it all balanced out fine.
We had no problems with choosing where to stay and where to eat, which was great.
I was slightly annoyed as one friend was a bit of a "prima donna" and always made sure she took her shower first at the end of the day. I personally would have preferred to rotate for fairness.
The other friend could sometimes be a bit of a "know all", and we eventually had a few "words" when we got lost once and played "the blame game".
As I recall, the only perfect one in the group was me.
Overall, in spending a whole month together, we did a great job getting along and we remain good friends.

 

[KFH]

As you suggested, your question will make an interesting new thread, taking on a slightly different topic than the original thread where you posted. So, I have moved it, along with the quote that you referenced, to this new thread.

My response is that we can have very good friends, but to live with them day and night for 6 weeks can be a real challenge, especially when we are experiencing a new country, new activity, new friends and physical demands! It is a good idea to discuss in advance how to approach the inevitable annoyances and differences of opinion.

Excellent. Thank you!

I am reminded of a time a couple decades ago. I had a pretty good friend who I had grown closer to than expected (no- not that way) and we began doing all sorts of things together. One year we went on a big camping trip and as we led up to that we were talking about this being a sort of jumping off point for more adventures together. We were so excited and happy leading up to that trip.

Overall, we had fun and enjoyed each other's company but there were times where we just did not get along well at all and it was a big surprise to me. For various reasons, it just wasn't a match. And after we got home, we never went on a trip together again.

I'll be honest-- when we got back I spoke to a mutual friend and I blamed my camping friend for us not getting along. It took me several months of introspection to understand it was mostly my fault. Without getting too personal, I just wasn't mentally prepared for any difficulties and was too selfish at the time.

That was decades ago and to this day I feel ashamed at my attitude then, but I have used that experience to prepare myself better for things which might not work out well between friends and travel companions.

I have chosen more wisely in travel companions and gotten hold of myself a little better to BE a better travel companion.

Because of what happened back then, I have also purposely not gone on trips with certain friends and family because I could extrapolate some minor warning signs into future likely problems.

With this Camino, I am going with a far different mindset and a far different friend-- one I have done several foreign trips with and we have gotten along fantastically on those trips.

But the Camino is a different animal altogether, and the challenges will definitely be different for us.

We've had a good start on discussion-- each of us doesn't mind whatsoever to walk alone for hours at a time and in fact we both prefer to walk alone for long stretches. I think this is a good start but there is SO much more for us to think about, so thank you for doing this.

 

[K_Lynn]

I selfishly wanted to walk my Camino alone. Not alone alone, but without anyone I knew. I felt that my first Camino needed to be experienced without any social safety nets, and as I have said before, I did not want to be responsible for anyone else's Camino Experience. I've travelled with groups of friends before and it is not always pleasant.

I think I have convinced my sister to join me for a short Camino Ingles next year after I have finished Camino Portugues and there will be many adjustments I will have to make for that to work. We have already started conversations about walking separately for periods during the day and as she is older, less fit and diabetic, I've insisted she speak with her physician and warned her that she will have to carry some food with her. She's a notorious overpacker, so I will have to go through her pack prior to my flying out to weed out some of the junk she will insist on bringing with her. I have mentally prepared myself to have to mail some things of hers to Santiago to pick up when we're done. lol As siblings there are a lot of things for us to argue about lol. She joined me last year for touristing after my Camino and we holidayed this year together so we both have a pretty good idea of how we travel together. I'm bossy, she's stubborn

As others have mentioned have conversations NOW with your travel companions. What do you each want out of Camino? Are you willing to acknowledge and grant each other's needs or desires for alone time? What is the plan if one of you decides 3 days in that this isn't as fun as they thought and wants to stop walking? (My personal opinion on this is the person who does not want to walk can bus to the next town and everyone meets up there for lunch/drinks/etc or...they can go home). There is also the issue of Covid and some sort of plan should be in place if that happens (hunker down for a few days, bus a few town ahead if schedules are tight, go home if it took a hole punch to your lungs etc) How are shared expenses (eg hotel/pensiones/posadas vs albergues) to be divvied up - and on that issue, if they decide to bail all expenses will fall upon those remaining, so be prepared to pay for your entire Camino. We all have our own preferred walking speed and slowing down to meet that preference is easier than trying to keep up, if the goal is to all walk together all the time than the slowest person dictates the pace.

There are millions of parameters and options for planning to walk Camino, with or without companions, and everything will get thrown out the window when you get there and new options and issues will arise then. But, having some sort of plan can help keep things as pleasant as possible.

Buen Camino!

 

[PrayerPose25]

While I'm not a seasoned walker, having only done the Camino once (yet), I did plan to walk with both an acquaintance and a friend, meeting both at different towns along the CF. While it was never bad, when we walked together, we all had different paces and different goals. I was a quicker walker and often felt guilty if I walked more quickly. If I slowed down to match their pace, I sometimes felt stifled. Carrying my backpack at all times, I wanted a serendipitous adventure; because they sent theirs ahead, planning a lodging destination each night was necessary.

I enjoyed my time with both, but we found that doing our own thing for a large part of each day and then meeting up for lunch or at night was really the best way for us to walk "together." At least, I thought so, but I believe they would say so too.

It was nice to have that certainty and built-in camaraderie (and nice to have someone to split the cost of private rooms with!) but at the same time, having several hours of the day to myself was wonderful. I met "my Camino people" mainly when I was alone, and had time for reflection, introspection and prayer as well.

I would venture to say that figuring out that subtle tension between walking your Camino, and walking with someone else is part of your journey. Buen Camino!

 

[cardifflad52]

Can you please elaborate on this? What didn't work for you two? Did you gradually realize there were problems? When you say "we walked separately" do you mean just for the day but you saw each other each evening or you did the rest of the Camino on your own?

(this could probably be it's own interesting thread but I really want to hear, as I am going with my good friend)

We could be very good friend's with someone to the point we could trust them with our lives this is what I would call a genuine friend .. yet to plan something like the CF or even the Norte exciting it may seem , we forget about how daunting it can be , being in eachothers pockets for the next 5 weeks or so , especially if one suggests you share a hotel room for the odd night ..unless you are really very close I can imagine how hard it may be .. then again although I have done two caminos and planning my third from Lisbon I never travelled with anyone as those whom I know are not keen on walking but there were always someone who asked if they could walk with me on different days ..

 

[JennyH94]

I selfishly wanted to walk my Camino alone. Not alone alone, but without anyone I knew. I felt that my first Camino needed to be experienced without any social safety nets, and as I have said before, I did not want to be responsible for anyone else's Camino Experience. I've travelled with groups of friends before and it is not always pleasant.

I think I have convinced my sister to join me for a short Camino Ingles next year after I have finished Camino Portugues and there will be many adjustments I will have to make for that to work. We have already started conversations about walking separately for periods during the day and as she is older, less fit and diabetic, I've insisted she speak with her physician and warned her that she will have to carry some food with her. She's a notorious overpacker, so I will have to go through her pack prior to my flying out to weed out some of the junk she will insist on bringing with her. I have mentally prepared myself to have to mail some things of hers to Santiago to pick up when we're done. lol As siblings there are a lot of things for us to argue about lol. She joined me last year for touristing after my Camino and we holidayed this year together so we both have a pretty good idea of how we travel together. I'm bossy, she's stubborn

As others have mentioned have conversations NOW with your travel companions. What do you each want out of Camino? Are you willing to acknowledge and grant each other's needs or desires for alone time? What is the plan if one of you decides 3 days in that this isn't as fun as they thought and wants to stop walking? (My personal opinion on this is the person who does not want to walk can bus to the next town and everyone meets up there for lunch/drinks/etc or...they can go home). There is also the issue of Covid and some sort of plan should be in place if that happens (hunker down for a few days, bus a few town ahead if schedules are tight, go home if it took a hole punch to your lungs etc) How are shared expenses (eg hotel/pensiones/posadas vs albergues) to be divvied up - and on that issue, if they decide to bail all expenses will fall upon those remaining, so be prepared to pay for your entire Camino. We all have our own preferred walking speed and slowing down to meet that preference is easier than trying to keep up, if the goal is to all walk together all the time than the slowest person dictates the pace.

There are millions of parameters and options for planning to walk Camino, with or without companions, and everything will get thrown out the window when you get there and new options and issues will arise then. But, having some sort of plan can help keep things as pleasant as possible.

Buen Camino!

Hi @K_Lynn - something that might help your sister on the Inglés is that Correos will be providing their pack transfer service from Easter 2023 on this route. This could be a good alternative to mailing items ahead to Santiago. Probably a ‘wardrobe edit’ will still be needed but she might still be able to have that extra favourite item or two whilst on the Inglés.
Here’s a screenshot which shows the Camino routes for which Correos provides the pack transfers -

Best wishes from Oz -
Jenny

 

[K_Lynn]

Hi @K_Lynn - something that might help your sister on the Inglés is that Correos will be providing their pack transfer service from Easter 2023 on this route. This could be a good alternative to mailing items ahead to Santiago. Probably a ‘wardrobe edit’ will still be needed but she might still be able to have that extra favourite item or two whilst on the Inglés.
Here’s a screenshot which shows the Camino routes for which Correos provides the pack transfers -
View attachment 137265
Best wishes from Oz -
Jenny

lol No! She has to carry her pack and she has to leave her 12 books at home. I'm giving her a copy of Brierley's Camino Ingles as the only book she is allowed to carry, unless it's downloaded on her phone.

If anything needs to be mailed it will likely be post-Camino clothes. I do appreciate the link though as I may need to send my pack as I will be slightly broken from finishing Portugues a few days prior.

 

[dick bird]

There is one sovereign remedy for an overloaded pack: an overloaded pack. Just make sure you know where the post offices are and what time they open. Walking at another's pace can be tiring, even walking at an unnaturally slower pace is tiring. Better if the faster walker goes ahead, stops and waits. Having said that, I think a natural tendency is for walkers to adapt their pace to each other's after a while. You are more likely to be match-fit than 'broken', by the way, after the Portugués. It is hard to let other people learn from their own mistakes, just remember that it was your choice to be with that other person so I think you just have to remember that if it is difficult sometimes. My partner and I have been walking caminos together for ten years and we are still obsessively planning the next 2 or 3 so I speak from experience. I'm sure it will be fine. Go for it.

 

[JennyH94]

lol No! She has to carry her pack and she has to leave her 12 books at home. I'm giving her a copy of Brierley's Camino Ingles as the only book she is allowed to carry, unless it's downloaded on her phone.

If anything needs to be mailed it will likely be post-Camino clothes. I do appreciate the link though as I may need to send my pack as I will be slightly broken from finishing Portugues a few days prior.

Yikes! I think your sister might need a visit from Marie Kondo! Just as well that Brierley’s Ingles guidebook is a slim volume!

Mailing ahead the post-Camino clothes is a great idea … either to Ivar’s luggage storage which I used earlier this year - highly recommended, or to the Post Office in Santiago which I used in 2019 and can also recommend.

Cheers about the Correos service - it sure helps.

Buen Portugués and Inglés camino!

Best wishes from Oz -

Jenny

 

[K_Lynn]

Yikes! I think your sister might need a visit from Marie Kondo! Just as well that Brierley’s Ingles guidebook is a slim volume!

Yes she does!
We visited cousins we hadn't seen in 20 years in June. We both brought large suitcases, mine half empty so I could fill it up with rocks, shells and whatever I bought there. Hers was full to the brim on arrival. She mailed home 25kg of stuff she had bought while there (I will defend her on this at it was all crafting materials from a going out of business sale so she got an incredible deal), then had to buy a second large suitcase and carry on case to pack everything else she bought.
It will all work out. We love each other, but we are siblings, so, you know. lol We'll have a couple of pre-Camino days when she arrives to get over her jetlag, and I'll check her bag (again) then.

 

[simply B]

Relevant to the topic from the "wayback machine" that lives in my head:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/what-issues-arise-when-walking-with-a-companion.11101/#post-603935

This was a post that I consulted carefully when a friend of decades really wanted to walk the Camino but was definitely in the early stages of fronto-temporal dementia. (There was no way I could not step up to aid him in this quest.)

My simple rules as elaborated in that thread were:

"- we would be companionable but allow each other most of the day to be alone or sociable as needs be.

- we would look out for each other at every stop re-establish connection.

- any decision regarding albergue would have to be mutually agreeable... if one of us had intuition against a stay then we would move on.

- we split chores of shopping, laundry, pharmacy runs.

- no arguments... we'd agree to disagree and that would be it.

- the first seven days were to be a grace period for us to get used to each other's walking style and we'd refine the "rules" from there.

Those are just my interpretation of the wisdom found in this great thread; re-read it a few times to distill what is applicable for you."

We never did need to make any new rules nor, for that matter, ever call to mind the existing rules.

He has since passed on but recalled into his obituary that 7 weeks as a highlight of a long life. As selfish as I can be, that adventure still remains my best Camino to date.

Walking with a companion can be done.

B

 

[Flog]

My son has come to join me a couple of times mid camino, to walk just a week together out of my much longer walks, and it was very rewarding for us both, though we also both felt it was enough time in each other's pockets, we each like our own independence! I've made similar arrangements with camino friends past: a few days is always nice to catch up, to rekindle friendships, spend a little time in each other's company, but it's also very liberating to set off alone and free again afterwards..

I accept that it works for some, but I've met enough 'friends' along the way sharing their whole camino in obligated misery together over the past few years to know that planning and sharing anything beyond just a few days walking together, is not something I would ever personally want to commit myself to..

 

[KFH]

There is one sovereign remedy for an overloaded pack: an overloaded pack.

This simple wisdom made my day.

One thing my friend has done on all of our non-Camino trips together is overpack-- In my estimation, anyway.

He seems to me to bring too much stuff but in the past it has only made me chuckle because he is big and strong enough to carry whatever he wants.

But schlepping luggage through airports is very different than carrying everything you have on your back every day for a month or more, so we've had a few discussions about that already. Not quite sure he gets it yet but he hasn't got to the point in training of filling out your pack and doing some mileage days.

I have done that in training and I was very surprised how heavy it seemed compared to the walking I had grown used to. I went from striding very well to a feeling of trudging along because I wasn't used to it.

Hopefully he will really take that up in training because he will then understand --physically understand-- the need to lighten his load. He can handle a lot more than I can weight-wise but the danger of overloading yourself is there for all of us.

 

[RRat]

Can you please elaborate on this? What didn't work for you two? Did you gradually realize there were problems? When you say "we walked separately" do you mean just for the day but you saw each other each evening or you did the rest of the Camino on your own?

(this could probably be it's own interesting thread but I really want to hear, as I am going with my good friend)

Togetherness on the Camino is no different than at home. My wife is so happy when I leave for a few hour to do my community outreach. She becomes down right disappointed if one of my activities gets canceled and she doesn't get her alone time.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Relevant to the topic from the "wayback machine" that lives in my head:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/what-issues-arise-when-walking-with-a-companion.11101/#post-603935

This was a post that I consulted carefully when a friend of decades really wanted to walk the Camino but was definitely in the early stages of fronto-temporal dementia. (There was no way I could not step up to aid him in this quest.)

My simple rules as elaborated in that thread were:

"- we would be companionable but allow each other most of the day to be alone or sociable as needs be.

- we would look out for each other at every stop re-establish connection.

- any decision regarding albergue would have to be mutually agreeable... if one of us had intuition against a stay then we would move on.
...................

Thank you @simply B - when @TerryB started the Walking with a Companion thread (back in 2011) it was in response to issues we had seen and we had just returned from his second and my first Camino. I hesitated to raise it again here as it was initially for those who walked with spouse or family members. However highly relevant still for them and for friends.
I like your simple rules - good for all to consider before, and during, a Camino.