What do people use in terms of spray for bedbugs?

Geo

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Looking to walk Camino, mid Oct 2014. Looking for potential hiking partners or those traveling there at same time. I'm from the US
skip it?
Worthwhile to spray bag and pack?
Thoughts?
Thanks.

I do not like toxic chemicals on my stuff but I keep hearing/reading how bad they are and that's blek. No thank you.
Geo
 
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Very light, comfortable and compressible poncho. Specially designed for protection against water for any activity.

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Mark Lee

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skip it?
Worthwhile to spray bag and pack?
Thoughts?
Thanks.

I do not like toxic chemicals on my stuff but I keep hearing/reading how bad they are and that's blek. No thank you.
Geo
No.
In two Caminos had no contact with any bedbugs, and I stayed in a variety of albergues, hotels, pension houses and hostels.
If it still concerns you, maybe bring some natural repellent to spray on you or whatever you sleep on. I think there are ones made from lemon, and or eucalyptus oil(s).
 
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Tincatinker

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Spray your pack, spray the outside of your sleeping bag. Read carefully the numerous threads on detecting / avoiding the bug and follow the advice.

Bugs detect their prey from a combination of CO2 concentration and heat. A citronella flavoured pilgrim is still warm and breathing (hopefully). Avoidance is the best prevention, plus a bit of luck.

Buen ( bug-free) Camino
 
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Al the optimist

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Having been bitten on my second Camino in an albergue I have since slept in a permethedrin treated silk liner. However I would offer a word of caution if sleeping in hostals frequented by pilgrims. Nice to have real sheets but do have a good look for critters as you are still at risk. This is hindsight on my part unfortunately. :eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek::eek: (yes 2 sets of 3)
 
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I work in the industry, have for many years. Check the mattress and sheets and pillows for spotting, small blood stains. If you still have lots of energy at the end of the day pull sheets off and check the seams of the mattress (those roundie things that hold the top to the sides for insects. No find; go to bed. If still suspicious take the mattress off the bed and inspect the legs, if there is a headboard inspect behind that and any pictures on the walls, remember that they live in clusters. Still can't get any sleep maybe it's a vampire, garlic and a wood spike should do the trick. I don't think they are as prevalent as some of these discussions would lead you to believe. In any case permethrin or any chemical with the word "thrin" sprayed as an aerosol is likely to really aggravate the person next to you as it is irritating to the lungs it also will in all likelihood actually scatter any existing population rather than killing them of "chinches" as we say in Mexico. They sell bedbug sheets that are cheap and light. Now lets all put this silly little subject aside and make our plans to see all the wonderful things that wait for us along the way. good night sleep tight and....
 

Luminaria

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I took a single fitted sheet which was treated with permethrin and put my sleeping bag on top - seemed to do the trick as I was bite free for my Camino - did notice a few people getting bitten - maybe 5 or 6.I think it's a worthwhile precaution - Dave
David, just to be clear, you treated the sheet but not the sleeping bag? I'm not hugely worried about bed bugs. I do have problems with insecticides, though--they usually make me woozy if they've been used in the area.
 
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Whether or not you see bedbugs or get bitten is pure luck and nothing else.
Once you've seen one single person eaten alive by bedbugs, you'll wish you had sprayed your gear.
Do a google image search on bedbug bites, and you'll spray your gear.

I am chemically sensitive and balked for a long time about spraying.
Now I spray the outside of my backpack before each Camino so no travelers are encouraged to hop in.
I do not spray my sleeping bag, but if I were not chemically sensitive, I would spray the outside of it for sure.
Most people use a permethrin product called Sawyers.
You can also buy permethrin spray (in the USA) at farm and vet supply outlets.

Also, you may want to read my blog on bedbugs.
It will explain how to recognize bedbug sign, and what method I do to keep from getting bitten.

That said, I've been bitten twice - once on my first Camino - I didn't know what it was; and once last year AFTER my Camino while resting in Madrid.
The first time was in an albergue.
The second in an upscale hotel.
They can be anywhere a pilgrim with bugs has passed by.
They do not respect boundaries except those made of permethrin!

Here is a link to my bedbug blog:
http://caminosantiago2.blogspot.com/2011/06/dont-let-bedbugs-bite.html
 
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Luminaria

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I am chemically sensitive and balked for a long time about spraying.
Now I spray the outside of my backpack before each Camino so no travelers are encouraged to hop in.
I do not spray my sleeping bag, but if I were not chemically sensitive, I would spray the outside of it for sure.
Thanks, Annie. I have already checked out your blog and it is awesome. Have the link saved in my growing get ready for all things Camino list. I'm thinking of spraying the sleeping bag as a trial, waiting a week and crawling in to see how I do with it. It sounds as if the Camino area is a pesticide laden place at this point. I don't have a great sense of smell, but I can taste pesticide when it's been used. As much as I don't want to be bitten up, I'm a little more concerned with walking into to recently sprayed areas and not having other sleeping options.
 

GreatDane

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I sprayed my silk liner, my sarong, my pack in and out and my pack liner (later used to put my pack in to send as luggage on my return flights home) with Permethrin. I did not see evidence of bedbugs, did not get bitten and only encountered one person that thought her bites were bedbug bites. So I was either lucky or the Permethrin helped. When I got to an alburgue I immediatly covered the pillow and bed with my treated sarong to hold my place, then laid my silk liner on the sarong and my handkerchief on top of the pillow.

 
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Robo

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Yikes!

I am a veritable 'smorgasbord' for insects of all shapes, sizes and tastes.... I only have to go and water the garden and every mosquito within range turns up for a 'bite'.

My wife Pat thankfully seems to be naturally immune....

It's a fair bet that if there are any bed bugs on the CF next year, during the month of May, that 'word will get out' about a tasty morsel heading West. So I think a bit of forward planning might be required on my part. And thanks to all those who have posted ideas on spotting them, and treating their bites.

For the likes of Kanga, Jenny and other members 'down under', do you think Aerogard might be a handy thing for me to take along. When in the tropics I apply it at night time and it seems to keep the Mossies away.

(Aerogard is an Australian WMD used to fend of a whole manner of flying/crawling/biting things. It's probably even effective against sharks and crocodiles if used in large enough quantities!)
 
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Aerogard contains DEET, which is the most effective insect repellent available. However, DEET does not deter bed bugs according to studies! Permethrin is an insecticide that is also somewhat effective as a repellent. DEET is applied to the skin; permethrin is used to treat backpacks, clothes, sleeping bags, and blankets. Once dry, it is safe for humans (in the U.S.).
 
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Robo

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Aerogard contains DEET, which is the most effective insect repellent available. However, DEET does not deter bed bugs according to studies! Permethrin is an insecticide that is also somewhat effective as a repellent. DEET is applied to the skin; permethrin is used to treat backpacks, clothes, sleeping bags, and blankets. Once dry, it is safe for humans (in the U.S.).

Bummer :(

I just rang Aerogard and you are quite right.
 
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Pedrito

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I have learned the hard way to be a bit cautious with permethrin. After repeated exposure, I eventually developed an allergy to it. Very light contact with permethrin treated clothes, sheets, or equipment messes up my sodium channels and gives me an irregular heartbeat. It takes about a day for the symptoms to subside. Very uncomfortable. It is powerful stuff and has risks of its own. So be careful.
 
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The FDA on permethrin:

Risks
Dietary
  • Acute, chronic non-cancer, and cancer dietary (food and drinking water) risks from permethrin were below the Agency’s level of concern (LOC).
Residential
  • All non-cancer (dermal and inhalation) risks for individuals handling permethrin products in a residential setting were below the Agency’s LOC. All cancer risk estimates were also below the Agency’s LOC, except for the following scenario: mixing/loading/applying the EC formulation via sponge to horses.
  • The non-cancer post-application risk estimates for adults and youth aged children exposed to an environment treated with permethrin were below the Agency’s LOC; however, the risk estimate for toddlers exposed to permethrin treated indoor surfaces (carpets) were above the Agency’s LOC. The cancer risk estimates for adults exposed to indoor surfaces treated with permethrin from directed surface sprays or total release foggers were also above the Agency’s LOC.
  • The Agency considered post-application exposure to both outdoor residential misting systems and permethrin treated clothing. All scenarios were below the Agency’s non-cancer and cancer LOCs.
Aggregate Risks
  • The acute aggregate risk non-cancer and cancer estimate from food and drinking water does not exceed the Agency’s LOC.
  • Aggregate short-term (1-30 days) non-cancer risk estimates, which include the contribution of risk from chronic dietary sources (food + drinking water) and short-term residential sources, exceeded the Agency’s LOC for toddlers exposed to permethrin through food and drinking water, and through post-application exposure during high contact activities on lawns and indoor surfaces. The risk
    driver for the aggregate non-cancer risk estimate was post-application exposure to permethrin on treated indoor surfaces (carpets).
  • The aggregate cancer risk estimate exceeded the Agency’s LOC for adults exposed to permethrin through food and drinking water, and through postapplication exposure during high contact activity on lawns and indoor surfaces. Similar to the non-cancer aggregate risk assessment, post-application exposure to treated indoor carpets was the risk driver.
  • All residential/recreational exposures are expected to be short-term in duration. Therefore, no intermediate-term (1-6 months) or long-term (>6 months) aggregate risk was assessed.
  • EPA believes that the appropriate way to consider the pharmaceutical use of permethrin in its risk assessment is to examine the impact that the additional nonoccupational pesticide exposures would have to a pharmaceutical patient exposed to a related (or, in some cases, the same) compound. Based on a worse case scenario assessment, EPA estimates that the permethrin exposure a patient is expected to receive from a typical single application of a 1% and 5% permethrin pharmaceutical cream, respectively, is 450 to 2300 times greater than the combined exposure from the dietary and other non-occupational sources of permethrin. FDA has reviewed these estimates and determined that pesticide exposure in patients receiving treatment with a pharmaceutical permethrin drug product would fall within the expected range of exposure following treatment with permethrin drug product alone, and would not present an increased safety risk.
Occupational
  • The majority of occupational handler risk estimates were below the Agency’s non-cancer LOC at baseline personal protective equipment (PPE) (long-sleeve shirt, long pants, no gloves, and no respirator). For all other scenarios where the LOC was exceeded considering just baseline PPE, all occupational risk estimates were below the Agency’s non-cancer LOC with additional PPE or engineering controls.
  • The estimated cancer risks for the majority of grower scenarios were also within the negligible risk range (≤3 x 10-6) or less with baseline PPE and gloves. However, a number of scenarios result in risk in the 10-5 to 10-6 range at this level of PPE, and either require additional PPE before the cancer risk estimates were below the negligible risk range, have no data available to estimate risk, or further mitigation measures were not feasible.
  • For all agricultural post-application scenarios assessed, the non-cancer risks do not exceed the LOC (MOEs > 100) on the day of application, approximately 12 hours following application. Most of the post-application cancer risk estimated for both hired hands and commercial/migratory farm workers were in the 10-5 to 10-7 range. The highest risk estimates, in the 10-4 range, were for conifer seed cone harvesting and thinning of certain fruit trees.
  • All non-cancer post-application exposure scenarios for military personnel and garment workers exposed to permethrin-impregnated battle dress or fabric, respectively, do not exceed the Agency’s LOC. Further, all of the postapplication cancer risk estimates for both populations were in the 10-6 range.
Ecological Risks
  • Permethrin is highly toxic to both freshwater and estuarine aquatic organisms. Most agricultural, public health, and down-the-drain scenarios modeled resulted in exceedances in the acute risk quotient (RQ) for freshwater and estuarine fish, invertebrates, and sediment organisms. The agricultural and public health scenarios also showed the potential for chronic risks to estuarine and/or freshwater organisms. Further, there is a potential concern for direct effects to a variety of aquatic organisms.
  • The acute and chronic RQs for terrestrial avian species are below the Agency’s levels of concern. The acute RQs for terrestrial mammals were also below the Agency’s acute LOCs; however, some chronic RQs exceeded the Agency’s LOC. However, the Agency believes the chronic RQs for mammals are based on a conservative estimate of toxicity, and therefore, may represent an overestimation of risk.
  • The potential for risk to terrestrial and aquatic plants from exposure to permethrin cannot be assessed because toxicity data are not available. However, any toxicity to plants would occur for reasons other than permethrin's insecticidal mode of action because permethrin works as a neural toxin, and unlike insects, plants do not have neural networks that could be affected.
  • Permethrin toxicity data show that the compound is highly toxic to honeybees, as well as other beneficial insects.
 
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Kanga

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@Robo, Aeroguard will not protect you from bedbug bites but it will help detect them (see AnnieSantiago's link to her method). The one to get is the low toxic spray armed "safe for children over 12 months". It does not contain Deet but only pyrethrum (or similar). People use sprays with Deet because they think "more toxic therefore more effective" but that is not the case. Deet is good for mosquitoes but actually pretty useless for bedbugs and ticks.
Before leaving Australia I wash my silk liner and sleeping bag in pyrethrum
 

Margaret Butterworth

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@Robo, Aeroguard will not protect you from bedbug bites but it will help detect them (see AnnieSantiago's link to her method). The one to get is the low toxic spray armed "safe for children over 12 months". It does not contain Deet but only pyrethrum (or similar). People use sprays with Deet because they think "more toxic therefore more effective" but that is not the case. Deet is good for mosquitoes but actually pretty useless for bedbugs and ticks.
Before leaving Australia I wash my silk liner and sleeping bag in pyrethrum

But where can I buy pyrethrum in Australia?
 
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Tia Valeria

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I have learned the hard way to be a bit cautious with permethrin. After repeated exposure, I eventually developed an allergy to it. Very light contact with permethrin treated clothes, sheets, or equipment messes up my sodium channels and gives me an irregular heartbeat. It takes about a day for the symptoms to subside. Very uncomfortable. It is powerful stuff and has risks of its own. So be careful.
Thanks for this. We have problems with some chemicals and avoid them as much as possible. So no permethrin or deet for us.
 

Kanga

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W@Robo and @Margaret Butterworth Bunnings and similar garden hardware stores sell Yates pyrethrum for use as a garden spray and also permethrin for spraying in chook sheds etc to kill mites and lice. No different to the very expensive stuff sold in specifically to travellers.

Pyrethrum is the natural less toxic substance made from chrysanthemums but it breaks down in sunlight. Permethrin is a chemical alternative that has a residual effect so is more effective. Soak your bed covering/silk liner and sleeping bag in it and treat the inside and outside of your pack. Once dry there is no residual smell or noticeable difference - and it should last the 6 weeks of the Pyrethrum you have to keep reapplying.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/bayer-25g-coopex-insecticide-sachet_p3011010
 
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Pelgrimpaul

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Thank you Falcon 269.
People keep talking about using Permethrin. I would take a second look at the product. Is it safe enough for you?

Sometimes people recommend lavender oil. It might work (and it might not if the little animals are very hungry).
 
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Yes. I use it every time. I wear mask and gloves to apply it, and do not touch sprayed items until they are dry.

I do not believe Lavender oil works.
If people use lavender oil and don't get bitten, they wouldn't have been bitten to begin with.

My brother tried lavender oil, tea tree oil, and a few others and the bugs just ate on him like they were exotic spices.

I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, and the permethrin, once dry, doesn't bother me, and I'm telling you EVERYTHING bothers me!
I have a nose like a bloodhound.
I can smell the UPS man coming 2 miles away, no joke.

I spray the OUTSIDE of my backpack and the OUTSIDE of my sleeping bag.

You can also use the method in my blog.

Or.. use lavender oil if it makes you feel better and take your chances, but if you use lavender oil in the albergue where I am staying, or any other essential oil, it will give me a MAJOR migraine, so please be aware of the rights of other people around you to breathe un-perfumed air. And if you think your oils are "organic" you may want to do more research. Most "organic" oils are processed by a chemical method that is NOT organic, resulting in a scent that is toxic to those canaries like me, and probably to you too, though you won't know it for years.
 
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Robo

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I do not believe Lavender oil works.
If people use lavender oil and don't get bitten, they wouldn't have been bitten to begin with.

My brother tried lavender oil, tea tree oil, and a few others and the bugs just ate on him like they were exotic spices.

I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, and the permethrin, once dry, doesn't bother me, and I'm telling you EVERYTHING bothers me!
I have a nose like a bloodhound.
I can smell the UPS man coming 2 miles away, no joke.

I spray the OUTSIDE of my backpack and the OUTSIDE of my sleeping bag.

You can also use the method in my blog.

Or.. use lavender oil if it makes you feel better and take your chances, but if you use lavender oil in the albergue where I am staying, or any other essential oil, it will give me a MAJOR migraine, so please be aware of the rights of other people around you to breathe un-perfumed air. And if you think your oils are "organic" you may want to do more research. Most "organic" oils are processed by a chemical method that is NOT organic, resulting in a scent that is toxic to those canaries like me, and probably to you too, though you won't know it for years.

Thanks for the feedback Annie. You seem to have some fairly firm views on the topic ;)
Like you I am hyper sensitive to smells and chemicals, but thankfully can tolerate essential Oils.

I quite agree about being 'sensitive' to others in shared lodging. One of the main reasons we will avoid Albergues if we can.

One of the things I am hyper sensitive to is cigarette smell. Not just the smoke, The smell. In my office building, I can tell when the smokers have returned from their 'outside the building' fix, because the stench lingers in the lift. By the time I have gone up 3 floors I have a splitting headache.

And Yes, I understand that smoking is allowed in bars and cafes in Spain. I'll have to sit up wind o_O
 
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Thanks for the feedback Annie. You seem to have some fairly firm views on the topic ;)
Like you I am hyper sensitive to smells and chemicals, but thankfully can tolerate essential Oils.

I quite agree about being 'sensitive' to others in shared lodging. One of the main reasons we will avoid Albergues if we can.

One of the things I am hyper sensitive to is cigarette smell. Not just the smoke, The smell. In my office building, I can tell when the smokers have returned from their 'outside the building' fix, because the stench lingers in the lift. By the time I have gone up 3 floors I have a splitting headache.

And Yes, I understand that smoking is allowed in bars and cafes in Spain. I'll have to sit up wind o_O
Smoking is outside only now in Spain, Robo. Just an fyi
 
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Thanks for the feedback Annie. You seem to have some fairly firm views on the topic ;)
o_O

Hahah!
I've gotten in more trouble posting things on the internet where it is impossible to see my face or body language.
 
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Kanga

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Fixes the vampires but.

Vampires, vampires? Another thing to worry about. Agggggh! My pack is getting heavier by the minute. Not only do I need garlic to ward off a vampire, but perhaps also a wooden stake (for someone else to kill it - I'm a too chicken).
 

Al the optimist

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Like Annie I was bitten on my first time out. Since then I have used Permethrin on my silk bag liner without any further issue. However, also like our Annie I got bitten in a hostal (in Santiago) this year. The spray I use is from NomadTravel, the same people who produce the all purpose shampoo I use. I buy mine from purpleturtle.co.uk though as they are cheaper than Amazon or wherever.
 
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kiwiDavid

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Sorry about this very late reply Luminaria (to late?) - yes I only treated the sheet which I slipped over the mattress at each Albergue.Then I had my sleeping bag on top .ie:no direct contact with any premethrin.Didn't bother with anything else.You can buy this stuff in camping shops in Australia.Dave
 
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Luminaria

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Sorry about this very late reply Luminaria (to late?) - yes I only treated the sheet which I slipped over the mattress at each Albergue.Then I had my sleeping bag on top .ie:no direct contact with any premethrin.Didn't bother with anything else.You can buy this stuff in camping shops in Australia.Dave
Thanks, David! Not too late. I'm planning my trip for next Fall.
 

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Vampires, vampires? Another thing to worry about. Agggggh! My pack is getting heavier by the minute. Not only do I need garlic to ward off a vampire, but perhaps also a wooden stake (for someone else to kill it - I'm a too chicken).

Kanga, before I left for the CF in September this year, I read your posts about spraying the mattresses with a light permethrin spray to detect bedbugs. I was wishing I had taken your advice, when I woke up to a tickling sensation on my neck at 2 a.m. in a single room in an albergue near Sarria, to find a family of bedbugs crawling through the bedding. Obviously I had been bitten, but subsequently had no skin reaction whatsoever. Not everyone does, and the bites are painless, so I find it amusing when people proclaim that they had no contact during their camino! I suspect, in fact, that they are fairly widespread. Interestingly the hospitalera refused to believe they were bedbugs, even though I showed her some clear pictures that I took before squishing most of them. She said they were "insects that fall from the sky" LOL. The next day a woman I had been walking with slept in the same bed and she was bitten and did react - covered in lumps.
 
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joe g texas aggies

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I, too, have questions for the experts.
Somewhere, a person on this forum recommended laying permethrin-treated Tyvek sheets under their sleeping bags. I am familiar with Tyvek, having worked in the construction industry. So, I looked up Tyvek on the internet and the sheets appear to be disposable - not sure how long they would last. Is this a good belt and suspenders solution? Other alternates to lay on the bed before spreading your sleeping bag?
In regards to spraying your sleeping bag silk liner, wouldn't that cause problems if you were to sleep in your bag without a liner later on the Camino - from the contamination from the silk liner to the inside of the bag?
 
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So, I looked up Tyvek on the internet and the sheets appear to be disposable - not sure how long they would last.
Get soft Tyvek. Mine has lasted ten years!

Permithrin is safe for humans once it has dried. Liners are thin, so spraying the outside also sprays the inside. For the sleeping bag, if you are taking both, just spray the outside. I spray my backpack inside and out, and both sides of the Tyvek sheet. I use the sheet as a sheet, not as a mattress cover. I admit that I am taking the FDA/EPA at face value!! I have seen a lot of bed bugs, but never been bitten.
 

joe g texas aggies

Active Member
Sep 1, 2014
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Get soft Tyvek. Mine has lasted ten years!

Permithrin is safe for humans once it has dried. Liners are thin, so spraying the outside also sprays the inside. For the sleeping bag, if you are taking both, just spray the outside. I spray my backpack inside and out, and both sides of the Tyvek sheet. I use the sheet as a sheet, not as a mattress cover. I admit that I am taking the FDA/EPA at face value!! I have seen a lot of bed bugs, but never been bitten.
Thanks, Falcon. That makes me feel a lot better about procuring a Tyvek sheet and spraying my gear.
Not sure I can trust the US federal government for anything, however. When was the last time they did a good job on anything?
 

obinjatoo@yahoo.com

Veteran Member
Aug 12, 2012
627
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2012 Dieppe, FR Bici CF.
2014 Ruta Vasco/CF/Primativo
Don't bother. Bed bugs are a part of life. They don't carry disease, they're just creepy. I was only bitten once and it was on the way to Muxia. Relax, learn to live with it and be a pilgrim. If you want a sanitized travel experience try Club Med.
 
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Kiwi-d

Active Member
Nov 3, 2013
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527
Auckland, New Zealand
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Camino Frances Sep/Oct 2014
I sprayed the outside of my backpack and sleeping bag with permethrin and after sharing a room for some nights with a friend whose lower legs were covered in bedbug bites, I took everything out of my bag and sprayed the inside too. (By the way, she never saw the bedbugs). When I arrived home, I found two dead bedbugs in my backpack when emptying it. For those who say they've never had any contact with bedbugs, I suspect it depends on the time of year they walk - I walked September/October, and saw two or three people with bite marks, and was told by another that they had seen a bedbug on the wall in their private room, and had got the albergue owner to spray the room.
 

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