Women - If you are the victim of any crime or harassment on the Camino

[JohnnieWalker]

The number of pilgrims walking all of the Camino routes has grown considerably over the last few years. So too have the number of reports of female pilgrims being the victims of sexual harassment or indeed assault. Thankfully these do not occur frequently. In this post there are hints and tips about personal safety:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...camino-some-hints-tips-and-information.37735/

However this is not the point of this post. One of the most troubling things about the reports which women have given is that when they report the incidents to the Spanish police many feel they have not been taken seriously. There have been other reports from pilgrims who happen to be lawyers that in Spain activities such as flashing are not illegal and therefore if no physical assault has taken place then there is little the police can do about it.

Certainly over the last few years there has been an increased presence of the police on many camino routes particularly the Camino Frances. However in my view the time is overdue for the Spanish government to take this issue seriously and the enact whatever laws are necessary and to instruct the police to follow up every incident reported by a pilgrim.

So I appointed myself the Camino Campaigner To Get Something Done. A few things have been set in motion through friends and contacts. Some Members of the Spanish Parliament both local and national are raising the issue and getting interesting answers - the first question is how often pilgrims report such incidents. Interesting variety of answers from "this information is not collected" to "if no law has been broken the incidents are not recorded" So the campaign continues.

How can you help? I'd like to make two suggestions.

If on the Camino you are the victim of or witness any action which in your home country would be a crime or elicit the active response of the police - REPORT IT IMMEDIATELY to the police where you are.

Take a note of the identity of the person you spoke and the address of the police station and send this to your country's embassy in Spain. In your letter please ask the embassy to exhort the Spanish authorities to record these incidents, respond to them and if necessary change the law.

Thanks to our Moderator Kanga for her encouragement with this.

John

 

[luvtraveling]

Thank you, John, for your efforts to make the Camino a safer place.

 

[Castilian]

. One of the most troubling things about the reports which women have given is that when they report the incidents to the Spanish police many feel they have not been taken seriously. There have been other reports from pilgrims who happen to be lawyers that in Spain activities such as flashing are not illegal and therefore if no physical assault has taken place then there is little the police can do about it.

Knowledge of local law(s) may help to know what to expect when making a report and adjust your expectatives accordingly.

However in my view the time is overdue for the Spanish government to take this issue seriously and the enact whatever laws are necessary

Right now, after more than 200 days and two elections we still have an acting government...

Some Members of the Spanish Parliament both local and national are raising the issue

I'm not sure what you mean by both local and national. I guess you mean the Spanish Congress of Deputies (and/or the Spanish Senate) and the Parliaments of (some) Autonomous Communities. Anyway, if you are requesting enacting of law(s) about the subject, most likely it(they) will have to be approved by the Congress of Deputies although it'll depend on the law(s) you are requesting to enact. Of course, to get also support from other political entities is a good idea.

the first question is how often pilgrims report such incidents.

Just pilgrims?

If on the Camino you are the victim of or witness any action which in your home country would be a crime or elicit the active response of the police - REPORT IT IMMEDIATELY to the police where you are.

That's well-meaning advice but world's law diversity shouldn't be overlooked. It's not the same to see someone carrying an arm in Spain than in the USA. It's not the same to be homosexual in Spain than in Sudan. It's not the same...

As I said above, knowledge of local law may help to know what to expect when making a report and adjust your expectatives accordingly.

If you aren't fluent in Spanish, I would suggest to double-check that you are properly understood when making a police report. I think that to go with someone fluent that could translate accurately would be a great idea.

Take a note of the identity of the person you spoke and the address of the police station

I would suggest to make clear that you want to make a denuncia (a report) and not (just), for example, ask for info. If what you are reporting could mean any law-breaking, the denuncia will be written down (including info about the police station where you made it, the police officer that attended you...), you'll have to sign it, it'll be registered and you'll get a copy. And, of course, what you reported will be researched by the police. In the case that it couldn't mean any law breaking, I don't now how likely would be that the denuncia wasn't written down, but if the denuncia wasn't written down, you'll most likely be told the reason(s) and, if not, you might ask about them.

In your letter please ask the embassy to exhort the Spanish authorities to record these incidents, respond to them and if necessary change the law.

I'm wondering how many embassies will be willing to make that sort of exhortation. Could you let us know if you get any info about embassies that made the exhortation? It would be very interesting to know it.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

However this is not the point of this post. One of the most troubling things about the reports which women have given is that when they report the incidents to the Spanish police many feel they have not been taken seriously. There have been other reports from pilgrims who happen to be lawyers that in Spain activities such as flashing are not illegal and therefore if no physical assault has taken place then there is little the police can do about it.

Certainly over the last few years there has been an increased presence of the police on many camino routes particularly the Camino Frances. However in my view the time is overdue for the Spanish government to take this issue seriously and the enact whatever laws are necessary and to instruct the police to follow up every incident reported by a pilgrim.

Thanks to our Moderator Kanga for her encouragement with this.

John

In line with Castilian's observations above, I would like to add that the overall tone of the post appears to suggest that our local law enforcement officers (mainly Guardia Civil and Policía Municipal on the Camino) are not reliable.

I do not doubt that several pilgrims have felt that their report was not been taken seriously, or that language may indeed create a barrier at the police/guardia civil station. However, to suggest that our law enforcement officers lack empathy with the victim as well as not doing their jobs correctly may set a distorted 'tone' for the whole email.

Likewise, it may imply that our law enforcement agents do not meet European standards for honesty and professionalism. This is not the case, and even the Guardia Civil, with its terrible 20th century background is now a respected institution (I am sure there are people who would disagree with this statement but this is not the place to engage in political debates).

Over the years, and not only on the Camino, I have indeed had my share of 'bad' cops (like anywhere else in the world), but I have also had many more opportunities to engage with able professionals who not only take their jobs seriously but in many cases go beyond the call of duty.

As for the government, to suggest that there should be Camino-specific laws is questionable (in my opinion at least). We already have a comprehensive criminal code (which I am sure can be improved), and which covers to my knowledge the vast majority of all assault related crimes.

The issue is whether we have the resources to enhance law enforcement presence on the Camino (especially on the trails) as well as the bureaucratic that come with the follow up of a report, and perhaps more importantly, would we want the Camino to become a micro police state with armed officers everywhere.

So yes, report all assaults, there are police/guardia civil stations everywhere. Yes, find help interpreting if you can (do not expect an officer to speak any English). Yes leave the station with a copy of report. And yes, collaborate actively if there is a follow up. And yes, exercise caution when in doubt on the Camino.

Buen and safe Camino to all

 

[Christian Hiriart]

We need to remember that Spain is an advance country, no different than France, USA, Canada or Japan. I lived in Spain for almost 2 years and I can't remember one time that I felt unsafe. However, we can't be naive and must always be aware of our surroundings and take precautions as we would do at home wherever that may be. Lots of us like to walk along and the Camino is very safe when it comes to that, however, this does not mean that we don't have to have our antennas in full alert. If we feel uneasy about and area or a place why not wait for another pilgrim and walk together or near others for a bit.

Buen Camino

 

[Albertagirl]

I was reassured by @JohnnieWalker's post that the uncomfortable and threatening experience of having a man exposing himself and masturbating in the presence of a female pilgrim might perhaps be taken more seriously in future. Apparently, this is legal in Spain, so nothing can currently be done about it. I see from the responses that I hoped too early. The usual response that women should not walk alone is simply not good enough. I expect another flow of defensive rhetoric about this. Yes, I experienced this once in Canada, and the police came and made it clear that they took this seriously. The incident was not repeated, possibly because of the police response. Should I just accept that this type of support is not available in Spain? I walked near Astorga last fall, and saw much police presence, as Denise's death seemed to have increased this. To me, this did not look like a police state but like a community taking safety issues seriously for good reason. But I am not happy about the experience of women pilgrims that their reports to police about sexually threatening behaviour by men are not being taken seriously. In the present, I do not see myself ever reporting such an incident to police. I think that this is unfortunate. I even find myself very reluctant to post this, given the probable response and the hopelessness of change.

 

[peregrina2000]

In the present, I do not see myself ever reporting such an incident to police. I think that this is unfortunate. I even find myself very reluctant to post this, given the probable response and the hopelessness of change.

I understand your frustration Albertagirl, but I think that John's post has given us more reason to join together to report, report, report. If there aren't enough statistics to show officials that this is a problem, maybe more so on the camino than in the rest of Spain, well, we are the only ones who can change that. That's our small part, and then as the statistical evidence grows, the change that John is pushing for becomes more likely to happen.

As someone who knows that masturbation in public is not a violation of Spanish criminal law, and who also knows that there are only a few urban places where the behavior is a violation of a local ordinance (and thus not criminal), I nevertheless have always made a report of these behaviors, except for the very first time it occurred to me in May 2000.

In my experience, the authorities have always been understanding and concerned, though I know this isn't always the case. Even if something isn't a violation of law, local police are able to use their powers to work with the townspeople to stop the problem. I have seen it happen.

Please don't give up, and above all, please don't stop reporting!!! And John's post about an embassy/consular follow-up is a great idea.

 

[oursonpolaire]

I have followed this issue carefully over the years, as I had a volunteer position where complaints sometimes came to me, usually 6-12 months after the event. At the training sessions at which I have helped out, we have consistently emphasized that, as soon as the pilgrim ensured her own safety, immediate reporting was the key. Dial 112 and ask for an English-speaking operator to make the report. Making a follow-up denuncia was also essential, as this made it a statistic as well as a kick-start to a formal investigation in the Spanish system. A woman Civil Guard on the del Norte had worked on a sting operation on a flasher and told me that, while exposure was not in itself illegal, a chat with the offender with a strong suggestion that help be arranged with the local health centre removed the problem in about half of cases.
My own opinion is that changing the law may not be a realistic expectation, but growing police attention will go a long way to addressing the problem.

The Camino is an important part of Spanish tourism, and that is one of the mainstays of the country's economy. Just-the-facts-ma'am follow-up with an Embassy will have an effect in mobilizing Spanish officialdom to treat this as a serious problem. It can help your local national pilgrims' group if you are able to cc them.

 

[lthrnck55]

In line with Castilian's observations above, I would like to add that the overall tone of the post appears to suggest that our local law enforcement officers (mainly Guardia Civil and Policía Municipal on the Camino) are not reliable.

I do not doubt that several pilgrims have felt that their report was not been taken seriously, or that language may indeed create a barrier at the police/guardia civil station. However, to suggest that our law enforcement officers lack empathy with the victim as well as not doing their jobs correctly may set a distorted 'tone' for the whole email.

Likewise, it may imply that our law enforcement agents do not meet European standards for honesty and professionalism. This is not the case, and even the Guardia Civil, with its terrible 20th century background is now a respected institution (I am sure there are people who would disagree with this statement but this is not the place to engage in political debates).

Over the years, and not only on the Camino, I have indeed had my share of 'bad' cops (like anywhere else in the world), but I have also had many more opportunities to engage with able professionals who not only take their jobs seriously but in many cases go beyond the call of duty.

As for the government, to suggest that there should be Camino-specific laws is questionable (in my opinion at least). We already have a comprehensive criminal code (which I am sure can be improved), and which covers to my knowledge the vast majority of all assault related crimes.

The issue is whether we have the resources to enhance law enforcement presence on the Camino (especially on the trails) as well as the bureaucratic that come with the follow up of a report, and perhaps more importantly, would we want the Camino to become a micro police state with armed officers everywhere.

So yes, report all assaults, there are police/guardia civil stations everywhere. Yes, find help interpreting if you can (do not expect an officer to speak any English). Yes leave the station with a copy of report. And yes, collaborate actively if there is a follow up. And yes, exercise caution when in doubt on the Camino.

Buen and safe Camino to all

Bottom line, if Spain wishes to continue to see the economic benefits of the Camino, they will do what is necessary to make pilgrims feel safe. If they ignore the concerns of the pilgrims and the number of illegal or harassing incidents increases, the number of pilgrims walking the Camino will fall.

I suspect, like most governments, they will wait until the issue is a problem for Spain before addressing it.

 

[SYates]

I actually encountered a flasher when walking the CF in 2014, as soon as I was out of his sight I called 112 and they took it very, very seriously. Things are changing in Spain (for the better!) when it comes to this kind of things. Keep reporting and Buen Camino, SY

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Bottom line, if Spain wishes to continue to see the economic benefits of the Camino, they will do what is necessary to make pilgrims feel safe. If they ignore the concerns of the pilgrims and the number of illegal or harassing incidents increases, the number of pilgrims walking the Camino will fall.

I suspect, like most governments, they will wait until the issue is a problem for Spain before addressing it.

my point is that i do not believe it is fair to pass judgement on our police response based on personal accounts. we have no idea how many incidents there have been, how many detentions have been carried out, how many crimes have been prevented, etc.

as for the economic benefits, i agree 100%, until a government actually feels the pinch it probably won't react. that said, with over 60 million foreign tourists visiting spain each year, the vast majority hovering towards mediterranean beaches, 150 thousand foreign pilgrims may not become a priority anytime soon.

 

[Penny Kingma]

I was concerned about this after reading it on here before leaving. As I was travelling alone and with M.S worried if need be I may not be able to get away. In walking from St. Jean to Santiago I felt safe. Never heard of any concerns from anyone.

 

[Castilian]

Spain takes gender (based) violence seriously. Just to quote some examples:

There's a free phone number where victims of gender (based) violence can report it. It's thought mainly for mistreated women and it doesn't show up on the phone bill to guarantee their privacy.

There are campaigns to arise awareness about the question and to end with it. Campaigns are made both in the media and out of them. There are also demonstrations against gender (based) violence.

There are centers that offer help to people victim of gender (based) violence.

Police has units specialized on gender (based) violence and domestic violence.

Of course, there's a lot of room for improving and there's yet a lot of work to make till gender (based) violence disappears but the question of gender (based) violence isn't ignored by the public opinion.

Police in Spain is well-trained. They have leaded training programs to police on some foreign countries. There are exchange training programs with other European polices...

If you make a report to police, rest assured they'll do their work. But don't forget they act according to Spanish law.

The Camino is an important part of Spanish tourism

Last year, foreign pilgrims registered at the pilgrims' office in Santiago where roughly the 0.21% of the total of foreign tourists in Spain.

Edited by Castilian to correct the % because the one he provided previously included both Spanish pilgrims and foreign pilgrims while the overall turists figure included just the foreign tourists.

 

[oursonpolaire]

Not wishing to quote your entire post, Castilian--- I am in agreement with pretty well everything you have said and I have been impressed with the Spanish police with whom I have dealt--- but the small overall percentage you mention is, in the case of some countries, much higher for them, and among North Americans it usually involves a month or so of travelling (as opposed to a week in Benidorm), and involves a highly educated cohort of traveller encountering a country in depth, step by dusty step (well, in Galicia, step by muddy step).

 

[William Marques]

I would like to remind everyone that personal attacks and sometimes this can also include nations are not allowed. A cogent discussion of policing and the law in Spain and reporting of any crime and harassment against women are what this thread is about. Please do not let it descend into a cross Atlantic slagging match.

 

[oursonpolaire]

@Pingüigrino: to clarify, I'm not from the US, nor do I suggest that Spain change its laws regarding nudity-- they come out of a historical context and work for the Spanish people and the live/let live approach on beaches has much to commend itself. North American does not mean US-- there are 30 million Canadians and 122 million Mexicans as well. My concern is that anyone who feels in danger on the Camino should ensure their own safety, and report immediately to the authorities, whose job it is to ensure the safety of pilgrims. The safety of pilgrims benefits Spain and I think we all agree on this-- while the numbers of pilgrims are a relatively small slice of the tourism market, their presence in northern Spain has done much to revive the economy of those regions, and given the (relatively) sophisticated nature of the pilgrim cohort, makes great friends for Spain across the world (and consumers of tinto!!).

 

[peregrina2000]

I understand where both sides of this issue are coming from (I am from the US, btw). But I don't think that John is being arrogant in suggesting that people who experience these incidents should try to do something about it. (I have had at least 4 or 5).

Though I am NOT saying that this is the same thing, this discussion did remind me of a thread in which I suggested that we needed to take action to get the aggressive hostile dogs off the Invierno. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/names-of-towns-with-loose-dogs.36783/. Some accused me of trying to change and sanitize Spanish culture, but I saw it as a need to work with authorities to ensure safe passage on public rights of way.

Pinguigrino and others see the flasher issue the same way -- as a matter of cultural arrogance and imperialism, us trying to impose our norms on another way of life. I hope there is some middle ground here -- that we can continue to respect Spanish cultural norms and still hope for some more official assistance to what is a very disturbing/distressing experience. If John has contacts that are in a position to consider the broader policy question, I don't think that input from non-Spaniards who have had the experience is a form of meddling or arrogance. And besides, I can tell you from experience that Spanish women are just as distressed when this happens as women from any other part of the world.

But to get back to the point John makes, he is ONLY suggesting here that women report these incidents so that there will be records and statistics. If officials in Spain don't know it's a problem, how would they ever address the problem. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Pingüigrino]

During the year 2015 we received in Spain 68.1 millions of foreigner tourists. The number of american pilgrims registered at Pilgrim´s Office in Santiago were 13.670 (5.21 % of a total of 262.516 registered pilgrims. 47% are female)
I can understand some women feel aprehensive in a foreign country, and I encourage them to repor to the police if they feel in distress, but thinking about the idea of changing the laws of a friendly country because the disconform of some of those persons sound absolutely arrogant to me.
Being very respectfull about american way of feel, I have learn (reading books, watching TV and mainly talking with american friends) that America, being a great, powerfull, and lovely country lives in fear.
Please do not take your fears with you, you have many better things to export than your aprehensivines.
Think that perhaps (just perhaps) the people that are living their entire lifetime in this country know better the way the want to live their lfes than those who came to walk for some weeks.
If public mastubation,nudity, or sex proposing is not a crime, it is not. Period. I dont like it too, but those are the laws in my country. Accept it like it is , with their ligts and shadows, or avoid it.
The fact I repulse America´s weapons laws, do not allow me of being arrogant with you, or your way of life, you americans. Mainly when the most of you are good and frienly people. But nor all of you a highly educated cohort, sorry to say.

Buen Camino to you all, honest people.

That said, please if you feel being troubled, do not doubt to report the incident to the police. We dont like any kind of thugs or criminals at our country.

 

[Tincatinker]

I've locked this thread for now. @William Marques had already reminded members that personal (or nationalist) attacks are not permitted.

Members have the opportunity to report posts that they find offensive or the PM process if they wish to take direct issue with another member. Members mis-using PM may be sanctioned in the same way as a breach of Forum Rules is dealt with.