Pilgrims on bicycles

[jefferyonthecamino]

I beginning to think that pilgrims on bicycles should not be sharing our footpaths; or at least not the dirt ones.

Maybe it's me, but they always seem to be going to fast when downhill, expect me to quickly step aside and tend to travel in groups.

The Spanish law enforces a 1.5 metre distance between motor vehicles and bikes. I wonder if that same law applies for bikes and pedestrians...

Anyway, Buen Camino to all the pilgrim 'bikers' out there and patience (and caution) with us slow pilgrims on foot.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

Ah... looong sigh... the topic of shared paths...

Disclosure: I am a walker, dog walker, cyclist and have been a horse rider so have experienced shared paths from every perspective.

Here in South Australia we have legislated the 1 metre distance for roads <60km and 1.5m for >60km. Also all bikes are allowed on the footpath at the same speed as the adjacent road. This has proved exciting - not! - I had to stay off them when I was recovering from my fractured foot as I couldn't risk being knocked over. I totally agree about respecting a similar distance when cyclists overtake pedestrians. I saw several close calls on our Camino and helped one pilgrim who fell getting out of the way if cyclists. I also met some very considerate cyclists but they tended to be on their own or in very small groups. One delightful Japanese gentleman on a round the world trip comes to mind.

It comes down to two issues really - the first is simply respect and consideration of others. The second reminds me of the Disney Goofy cartoon: Mr Walker & Mr Wheeler where the kind and gentle pedestrian turns into a speed demon behind the wheel.

It's all about the lens that we see the world through and the type of experience we seek. The speeds and needs and perspectives of walkers, cyclists and horsemen/women differ.

All our shared paths in South Australia have a give way heirarchy: cyclists give way to pedestrians, dogs to be on leads at all times, everyone gives way to horses. Wishful recommendation probably describes this best... I have been knocked over by cyclists when walking, abused by pedestrians for scaring them by ringing my bell when cycling slowly past them, knocked down by dogs running loose when cycling and totally given up riding horses on any shared path.

Many of our national parks now have mountain bikers on our narrow walking tracks either legally or illegally as well as unregistered motorbikes. Some parks are becoming a no go area for walkers because of this.

Anyway, Buen Camino to all the pilgrim 'bikers' out there and patience (and caution) with us slow pilgrims on foot.

Well said. Consideration for each other.
Buen Camino to all pilgrims along the Way by whatever means of transportation.

 

[Sandra Hembling]

Hi All

My first Camino and just reached Sahagún. Other than blisters, sore knees and some other minor irritations there is one issue that i agree really needs attention. Some cyclists have bells on their bikes, some even use them! However, in my experience, many just cycle on oblivious to walking pilgrims and do not appear to be aware that we only hear them when they are directly behind and, when on narrow pathways, needing to pass. Please, to all cyclists on the Camino, ring your bell or call out when approaching walkers.

Thanks

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

...then give us time to move out of your way...

 

[MCFearnley]

...then give us time to move out of your way...

There have been some close calls on my journey. I don't think the anyone really understands that someone cannot simply and nimbly hop off a path when carrying a load until one has actually done it. We have to overcome the inherent inertia of the added weight before we can change direction out of the way.

 

[t2andreo]

Due to blown out menisci cartilage in my knees (both of them), I am seriously considering doing the Camino by bicycle, in future. However, having done four on foot, I am determined to find a parallel road-based routing.

The Frances seems to offer the best already-mapped routes. Really, you can find guides that provide a road-only parallel route. This is how the many peregrinos who ride long distances on skinny-tire road bikes and "city bikes" with panniers make the journey.

It appears (IMHO) that only the "sprocket heads" with overly complicated and expensive mountain bikes who provide safety challenges for themselves and walkers on the Camino routes I have traveled so far. But, perhaps that is only my perception.

It may well be so observed simply because one will meet "knobby-tired" mountain bikers on mountain trails and sendas, where "skinny-tired" road bikes cannot travel, for fear of rapid and repeated tire / tube punctures.

Personally, I am less concerned with being hit by a motorist while traveling on the right shoulder of a road, than I am about accidentally harming another walking pilgrim. So, I continue to explore the notion of a road-only Camino.

I hope this adds to the dialog.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

Personally, I am less concerned with being hit by a motorist while traveling on the right shoulder of a road, than I am about accidentally harming another walking pilgrim. So, I continue to explore the notion of a road-only Camino.

Thank you!!!!

the latest in pilgrim attire

 

[hecate105]

as a hiker and a cyclist - it just comes down to people being ignorant and /or arrogant. A bit of thought for others is all that is needed. Unfortunately many cyclists ignore the rules of the road (red lights...) when on a road and ignore the pedestrian's rights when on a pavement or trail. It is extremely easy to slow down or stop when you pass people - especially the old, young, disabled, dog owners (even on a lead a dog can lunge) or the heavily-laden...!
Similarly it is easy to step aside for a minute if when walking you see a group of cycles coming.
The bell ringing needs to be done at quite a distance, then again as you approach - i have jumped out of my skin myself at a cyclist's bell - simply because i was in a world of my own walking along...
It is incumbent on us all to keep watchful when on a trail/road etc - we cannot really blame others if we are away with the fairies... (as i so often am!)
So lots of patience and tolerance by all of us - to all of us.
It won't sove the problem of the ignorant tho' - their parents must of missed out onteaching manners...

 

[fraluchi]

Get used to the facts: cyclists come in all sorts of manners. By the time you complain about their behaviour it's too late. Bikers don't read these comments anyway!

 

[jmcarp]

Random thoughts on bicycles on any trail shared by cyclists and walkers:

• Here in Colorado, USA, the law says cyclists must yield to pedestrians. That usually doesn't happen, but as a walker, I appreciate it when they do and always try to say thank you when they do.
• Despite what the law says, I always try to step aside and give the right of way to a cyclist approaching from the front (if there is room alongside the trail). However, I don't have eyes in the back of my head, nor do I use a rear-view mirror when when walking, so I rely on the cyclist approaching from the rear to make him/herself aware to me and to pass safely in accordance with the law.
  
• Bells are fine, if they can be heard. Many walkers are deep in conversation and space out all other sounds around them. Many walkers listen to music as they walk and have earbuds stuck in their ears, and cannot hear a cyclist's bell. When walking alongside a busy road, the traffic noise can drown out bells or even toot horns on a bike. All this means is that it is the cyclist's responsibility to share the trail safely, especially when the pedestrian is distracted or handicapped by the surrounding environment.
• Many segments of the Camino (at least the CF) have designated alternative paths for bicyclists. It would seem best if those were considered mandatory and not just an option, especially on single-track portions of the way.
  
• Common courtesy works both ways, especially on hilly trail segments where cyclists are often hesitant to give up the momentum they've pedaled hard to attain, and thus are reluctant to stop or slow down. Walkers, give them a break and step aside if you can. Who knows, that might encourage them to reciprocate when the see a walker who may be preoccupied or obviously not able to hear them approaching.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Oh no, No! If I have to watch them flying down hills in 30 seconds when it will take me 30 minutes, I want to see them struggle going up hill in rocky, muddy, paths! ;0)

 

[Kanga]

The bike pilgrims must get sick of constantly ringing their bells and the walkers certainly resent having to jump aside all the time. With so many sharing the path collisions are inevitable. The only real solution is two separate paths. Sadly that solution is more infrastructure and degradation of the landscape.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Seems to me the simple solution is for bikes to use the road instead of the dirt trail, which they are tearing up horribly.
::grumbling:::

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

a nice plump, and freshly terminated biker ( a hiking pole through the front spokes should usually do the job)

soon, walking pilgrims will be painting small bicycles onto the back of their packs to denote 'kills' with five needed to become an Ace.
hey, we are both kidding, sorry to bicyclists...I've seen a few walkers almost kill you also...you could always paint a hiking pole onto your bike

 

[Anniesantiago]

soon, walking pilgrims will be painting small bicycles onto the back of their packs to denote 'kills' with five needed to become an Ace.

This made me laugh. We need a laugh button!

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

luckily for you all I censor most of the funny thoughts that cross my mind when reading posts. I was thinking Ivar could have patches made, some with bikes, some with hiking poles, and sell them...for self protection one might buy four bikes, even if one had no documented 'kills', and sew them on so every bicyclist knows you are looking for just one more

 

[jmcarp]

Oh no, No! If I have to watch them flying down hills in 30 seconds when it will take me 30 minutes, I want to see them struggle going up hill in rocky, muddy, paths! ;0)

Just think what they miss, though, speeding along at 30 km/h, eyes glued to the path a meter or two ahead, watching for obstacles--and hopefully for walking peregrinos. We walkers see the detail of the individual flowers, the tiny insects crossing the path, the snails clinging to the stems, the ripening berries in the hedges that line the trail, the smiley faces plucked in the sunflower heads, the nuances in the scenery all around, the play in the shadows of the clouds as they move across a golden landscape. We see the fine craftsmanship of the 500 year-old buildings in the villages. We see the aquatic plants swaying in the current of the streams we cross and the little fish darting in the water. We feel the gentle breeze. We turn back and look from where we came, getting a whole new perspective on the land around us. We hear the friendly greetings of the local residents, the crunching sound of footsteps along a gravel path, the distant bleating of a sheep or the faint barks of a far-off dog. And most of all we experience the conversations with new friends from all corners of the globe as we walk together. The world indeed is a different place when experienced at 4 km/hr.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

But that's just it: cheep housing, nothing else. Pilgrimage: my petooty! Biking 200km for a Compostela ... Give me a break. They are using what they hard earned € have paid for: a great place to enjoy their passion.

 

[SYates]

Am I the only one that thinks that pilgrims on a bike have the same right to do the camino as pilgrims on foot/in a wheelchair/on a donkey etc.? I find this "bicigrino bashing" (humorous or not) in some of the posts in this thread simply sad.

I had one single bad experience with a group of pilgrims on bikes and that was in 1999. Simply keep your eyes and ears open and be aware of your surroundings, that takes not only care of noticing approaching pilgrims on bikes in 90% of the cases, but makes you also aware of other possible problems.

Just because we walk, we aren't better pilgrims in my opinion and I absolutely refuse to make any guess how much or how little of a pilgrim somebody is that uses a bike (or any other method of transport for that matter).

Buen Camino de la Vida, SY

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Am I the only one that thinks that pilgrims on a bike have the same right to do the camino as pilgrims on foot/in a wheelchair/on a donkey etc.? I find this "bicigrino bashing" (humorous or not) in some of the posts in this thread simply sad.

Just because we walk, we aren't better pilgrims in my opinion and I absolutely refuse to make any guess how much or how little of a pilgrim somebody is that uses a bike (or any other method of transport for that matter).

Buen Camino de la Vida, SY

For the recird, I was not being judgemenatl in my original post regarding bicigrinos.

I di blieve though that attention is not always enough

 

[SYates]

@jefferyonthecamino

I didn't point to any post in particular, I wrote "some of the posts".

Buen Camino, SY

 

[Nanc]

There have been many cyclists on my Camino. At a guess maybe 30% used bells, 20% their voice and the rest, no warnings.

I have felt (though never asked if it was true) that the cyclists miss so much, as JMcarp was saying, including that momentary connection of a Buen Camino as one passes another pilgrim. So after we (the cyclist and I) greet each other (esp if it's a group that gives me more time) I alwsys thank them for the bell. And have heard them discussing it as they go on.

What I can't figure out is why they don't see the benefit to them! A bell gives me time to step aside and pause. Without a verbal warning, tires can be so quiet, I can't hear them. And the cyclist is forced to slow or stop till the pilgrims recognize what's happening and can move. The sooner they tell us the sooner they keep moving

I had a visual of the issues you mention this last week after Sarria. We were sitting outside in late afternoon at my albergue. NUMEROUS pilgrims walked by, strewn across the road which curved before us. A group of cyclists on a fast race swooped down the slight hill trying to weave without warning among those on foot. A young cyclist hit the curve and its loose gravel and went down. Scraped up. Shook up. They declined all offers of help but it took a while sitting in the street for her partner to get her triaged, treated and finally hugged. They were able to move on. Noone else hurt. It could have been bad all around

 

[fraluchi]

[...] a hiking pole through the front spokes should usually do the job[...]

I walked with a Spanish lady pilgrim a few years ago who did exactly that. Oh, disculpe.....

 

[Saint Mike II]

Get used to the facts: cyclists come in all sorts of manners. By the time you complain about their behaviour it's too late. Bikers don't read these comments anyway!

What do you mean? Sorry but your last comment is (imho) cr*p! I cycled from Pamplona last September 2015. Where I could I followed the walking Camino. BUT I always rode at a speed where I could stop. It was my responsibility to avoid the walking pilgrims, not the other way round.
Please don't tar ALL cyclists with the brush of a few bad experiences!!!!

 

[Saint Mike II]

The bike pilgrims must get sick of constantly ringing their bells and the walkers certainly resent having to jump aside all the time. With so many sharing the path collisions are inevitable. The only real solution is two separate paths. Sadly that solution is more infrastructure and degradation of the landscape.

Hi Jill, sorry can't agree. Bells on bikes are meant to be Rang! As for collisions, they are not inevitable. Simple road rules apply, the vehicle "overtaking" has the responsibility to avoid the vehicle/walking pilgrims in front. So ride at an adjusted road use speed or only ride on the roads. In conclusion I must say that over 70% over Camino Frances is on public, rural Spanish roads where all users are equal & need to be aware of other traffic; bikes & large tractors!!!

 

[Saint Mike II]

There is a simpler solution to all this: include bicigrinos in the menu peregrino; probably a bit chewy a la plancha but estofado would work well. If a discount was offered to peregrinos who brought in a nice plump, and freshly terminated biker ( a hiking pole through the front spokes should usually do the job) then the supply should be fairly steady. Once the bicis learn how dangerous the camino can be they will start to avoid the narrow pathways and enclosed stretches of the caminos and stick to the wide open highways.
".

Tincatinker what you suggest is neither funny nor acceptable. As for the criminal activity of sticking a pole through a wheel I would hope this "" got what she deserved - 5 years in a Spanish jail.
Come on moderators do your job!.
(PS, yes I am back after a peaceful month in Italy. Albania & Macedonia! It was a Camino free zone, apart from Assisi!)

Moderators job done

 

[Tincatinker]

Welcome back Mike and thanks for reviving a thread that was quietly sliding into oblivion without the usual furious exchanges that arise between hikers and bikers.

Edit: I've deleted my post. How about you?

 

[winewalker]

Having just returned from walking the Camino Frances from Ponferrada to Santiago I have to say that I was surprised by the number of cyclists on the Camino, but never once did I hear a bell ring. The best we got was a shout from behind, "Bikes!" Some kind of a notification was better than none and we would step out of their way and let them pass. The downhill portions are definitely the worst, being not much time between the warning and avoiding the oncoming traffic...and if there is no warning then there is no awareness until they are upon you.

One lady we met, struggling with a leg brace and a foot brace, told of how even with a warning, she doesn't have much chance of getting out of the way while trying to pick her way through the easiest route.