LIVE from the Camino Current big wave at beginning of Francés

[Becky 59]

Zubiri was full early yesterday (by 2:30, according to some pilgrims who came to Pamplona today), but Zubiri opened up a municipal building just past the town for some pilgrims to sleep on the floor! I haven’t seen that done before.

We all know these first few days are a choke point, but I am seeing panicking pilgrims who then conclude they need to book everywhere from now on, unfortunately.
The new albergue Betania had its first full night of the season last night. However, we didn’t fill until 5 pm.

A volunteer in SJPP reports over 1500 pilgrims registered in the last 5 days…

 

[Bob P]

It's tight!
I'm now past Terridillos de Los Temparillos. Got turned away at both Albergues there that were "completo" at 2pm, that told me yesterday they took no reservations. Then the girl behind me checked in tour group of twelve. Every town has been full in the small places (at any price range) and then watching the big Albergues go completo by 4 or 5pm. First day I've had to keep going to get a bed. The hospitalero here told me "tour groups can reserve where individuals cant".

 

[Phileas]

Besides the usual buble of late April / early May, there was today a trail running race in Zubiri: many runners chose to stay in Zubiri for two nigths

 

[Becky 59]

Besides the usual buble of late April / early May, there was today a trail running race in Zubiri: many runners chose to stay in Zubiri for two nigths

That explains a lot about Zubiri this weekend

 

[Phileas]

I'm one of the wet pilgrims in Zubiri suffering the consequences...

 

[michberk]

I was today at Betania! I was really surprised to see the sign stating that the albergue was full only at 13:20!! I’m currently staying at a hostel in the outskirts of Pamplona. Pamplona was 100% full today.

 

[Bradypus]

Numbers arriving in Santiago are unusually large at the moment too. 2,127 Compostelas issued yesterday. 2,614 Compostelas issued today. An early date for Easter this year may have brought the peak pilgrimage season forward a little. At the moment the running Compostela total for the year is 21% up on the same period last year.

 

[Former member 115109]

Zubiri was full early yesterday (by 2:30, according to some pilgrims who came to Pamplona today), but Zubiri opened up a municipal building just past the town for some pilgrims to sleep on the floor! I haven’t seen that done before.

We all know these first few days are a choke point, but I am seeing panicking pilgrims who then conclude they need to book everywhere from now on, unfortunately.
The new albergue Betania had its first full night of the season last night. However, we didn’t fill until 5 pm.

A volunteer in SJPP reports over 1500 pilgrims registered in the last 5 days…

I was at Betania at 1300 and a woman waiting in line at the door said it was full. Apparently she didn’t know what she was talking about. Thats frustrating.
So now I am now renting a room with some random man from Australia I met on the street outside Jesus y Maria who said he also went to Betania and was turned away.

 

[VNwalking]

The hospitalero here told me "tour groups can reserve where individuals cant".

Grrrrrr.
No comment, except to say that I think something is wrong with this picture.

 

[michberk]

Grrrrrr.
No comment, except to say that I think something is wrong with this picture.

Same! I’m sorry but in my opinion this is a pilgrimage, not some holidays… today in Pamplona at the Albergue Jesús y Maria there was a reservation of a group of 40 people!! That’s almost half of the albergue!! It’s really frustrating…

 

[J Willhaus]

Same! I’m sorry but in my opinion this is a pilgrimage, not some holidays… today in Pamplona at the Albergue Jesús y Maria there was a reservation of a group of 40 people!! That’s almost half of the albergue!! It’s really frustrating…

Sometimes they are groups of pilgrims (same church or amigos group). That's also why I took a student group of limited size in the winter. It does sound really frustrating.

 

[Simperegrina]

Same! I’m sorry but in my opinion this is a pilgrimage, not some holidays… today in Pamplona at the Albergue Jesús y Maria there was a reservation of a group of 40 people!! That’s almost half of the albergue!! It’s really frustrating…

Grrr indeed

 

[Kathar1na]

Same! I’m sorry but in my opinion this is a pilgrimage, not some holidays… today in Pamplona at the Albergue Jesús y Maria there was a reservation of a group of 40 people!! That’s almost half of the albergue!! It’s really frustrating…

It should be noted though that the albergue Jesús y Maria in Pamplona is not an albergue that is exclusively for pilgrims; that they allow reservation during the period Octobre to April; that demand for beds in Pamplona is high on Fridays and Saturdays.

There are numerous albergues along the Camino Francés that are not exclusively for pilgrims despite the word "albergue" in their name.

 

[Kathar1na]

Pamplona has exactly three "pilgrims only" albergues: Albergue diocesano Betania, Albergue Casa Paderborn and also Albergue de Pamplona-Iruãko Aterpea although they are also open to anybody during "low season" and they are even on Booking.com. Everything else is open to pilgrims with a credencial and to anybody else.

Source: Gronze.com

 

[VNwalking]

demand for beds in Pamplona is high on Fridays and Saturdays

Not to mention local holidays.
Here's a handy list - worth considering if you are planning a camino.

Public Holidays in Spain in 2024 | Office Holidays

Comprehensive list of Public Public Holidays that are celebrated in Spain during 2024 with dates and information on the origin and meaning of holidays.

www.officeholidays.com

 

[Becky 59]

I was today at Betania! I was really surprised to see the sign stating that the albergue was full only at 13:20!! I’m currently staying at a hostel in the outskirts of Pamplona. Pamplona was 100% full today.

Not surprising: it is Saturday night when many Spaniards come to the city, on top of the pilgrims.

 

[arfajajc]

Grrrrrr.
No comment, except to say that I think something is wrong with this picture.

I think that's an absolute disaster waiting to happen to the Camino, if it becomes the norm...

 

[Becky 59]

I was at Betania at 1300 and a woman waiting in line at the door said it was full. Apparently she didn’t know what she was talking about. Thats frustrating.
So now I am now renting a room with some random man from Australia I met on the street outside Jesus y Maria who said he also went to Betania and was turned away.

Yes, Betania was full with pilgrims in line; we had reduced capacity because the Diocese took some of our space for a cultural program. Usually we have 18.

 

[Corned Beef]

Zubiri was full early yesterday (by 2:30, according to some pilgrims who came to Pamplona today)

Zubri was full in 2017 when I did my first Camino. Every year since (Covid excepting) Zubri is full at one time or another. So you bus/taxi to Pamplona and bus/taxi back the next day.

 

[Kathar1na]

That some municipal albergues who usually do not allow reservations for individuals make reservation possible for groups is nothing new and not a reason to predict doomsday scenarios. Here is a link to a 2019 thread where it is reported that the municipal albergue in Azofra and the municipal albergue in Redecilla del Camino had this policy.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/municipal-albergues-allowing-large-group-to-reserve.62354/post-746723

Some municipal albergues do not only cater for the single international foot pilgrim, they also cater for school groups from the region. Also, parochial and municipal albergues use their spaces for events for the local communities and it can reduce the supply of beds for foot pilgrims.

Some first-time pilgrims are mislead by the "The Camino provides" slogan. It does not mean that it provides cheap beds at any time and in any place for every single individual pilgrim. The Camino provides hotel beds, and taxis and buses to get to them. Especially so on the section from SJPP to Pamplona.

PS: There is even a thread from 2012 (!) - "organised groups making 'reservations' at municipal albergues" in Navarette and Azofra and the poster demands that "this practice HAS to stop". I checked Gronze.com - for 2024, it says that the Navarette municipal albergue is exclusively for pilgrims and that it is open only for groups with a reservation between 1 November and 31 March.

There is a list of albergues on the Camino Francés allowing reservation. I don't know whether it is up to date: https://www.alberguescaminosantiago.com/camino-frances/albergues-con-reserva-online/ . Again, nothing new.

 

[Kathar1na]

Just for information (from Gronze.com):

Albergue municipal de Zubiri​

Exclusivo para peregrinos: No, pero orientado a los peregrinos​

Admite reserva: Sí​

Their booking calendar shows that dozens of beds out of their total of 72 places are still available for the next few days, and that the crunch day is Friday the 3rd of May when currently only 16 beds are not yet booked. Not a surprise: More pilgrims than usual on other days of the year will start in SJPP on the 1st of May, spend the following night in their beds in Roncesvalles on the 2nd of May and hit Zubiri on the 3rd. And then Pamplona on a Saturday night when they will share the town with many other short-term visitors and revellers!

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Grrrrrr.
No comment, except to say that I think something is wrong with this picture.

I initially agreed completely with you. And then I thought about it a little more.

We all talk about the fact that it is not up to us to judge who is a pilgrim and who is not, or how another Pilgrim should walk their Camino. @J Willhaus & @Kathar1na have both provided excellent reasons why booking groups is the case and that it is clearly a long-standing practice.

Last year I reported on a friend of mine leading in a 90 plus strong group of young Italian students, and many of us on here cheered them in. There was another group immediately ahead of them on the trail - the same situation.

On my Camino Inglés last year one tour group took practically the entire albergue in Betanzos. In this case all spaniards (complete families), I believe a church group. An incredibly important occasion for them (Semana Santa). Again, pre-booked.

The list goes on and on. Had they all not been able to book they could not have gone. Whilst it disturbs our individual plans we are exactly that - individuals. As individuals we can fit around groups, take up those odd beds that they leave vacant, use a hotel for one or two nights - but splitting one group amongst multiple accommodation options would be a logistical and practical nightmare. And hotel's for the entire Camino would make it substantially more expensive, making it out of the question for some.

Municipal Albergues are provided by the municipalities. Which means they have a responsibility to their fellow spaniards. (School groups, church group's etc).

And as for the situations when they are not municipal Albergues: the owners are running a business, they need to make a profit in order to still be there for us next year. So of course they will take a large group booking.

So in hindsight, no, I do not think there is anything wrong with this picture.

 

[Simperegrina]

I initially agreed completely with you. And then I thought about it a little more.

We all talk about the fact that it is not up to us to judge who is a pilgrim and who is not, or how another Pilgrim should walk their Camino. @J Willhaus & @Kathar1na have both provided excellent reasons why booking groups is the case and that it is clearly a long-standing practice.

Last year I reported on a friend of mine leading in a 90 plus strong group of young Italian students, and many of us on here cheered them in. There was another group immediately ahead of them on the trail - the same situation.

On my Camino Inglés last year one tour group took practically the entire albergue in Betanzos. In this case all spaniards (complete families), I believe a church group. An incredibly important occasion for them (Semana Santa). Again, pre-booked.

The list goes on and on. Had they all not been able to book they could not have gone. Whilst it disturbs our individual plans we are exactly that - individuals. As individuals we can fit around groups, take up those odd beds that they leave vacant, use a hotel for one or two nights - but splitting one group amongst multiple accommodation options would be a logistical and practical nightmare. And hotel's for the entire Camino would make it substantially more expensive, making it out of the question for some.

Municipal Albergues are provided by the municipalities. Which means they have a responsibility to their fellow spaniards. (School groups, church group's etc).

And as for the situations when they are not municipal Albergues: the owners are running a business, they need to make a profit in order to still be there for us next year. So of course they will take a large group booking.

So in hindsight, no, I do not think there is anything wrong with this picture.

All sound.

Albeit it is understandable for individuals to feel a bit frustrated (especially if they’re caught up in it), it’s only human nature.

EDIT: it helps that you sum it up so reasonably @Peterexpatkiwi

 

[Kirkie]

I had begun a long epistle, and you may thank the universe or whoever you like that I have deleted it. We are guests. In another country. Let's pay attention to local calendars and also the fact that booking.com is not The Bible.

 

[VNwalking]

@Peterexpatkiwi, yes all very true. Thank you for the non-reactive clarity.

I had in mind the tour groups that are not local, perhaps paying top dollar for the experience. In retrospect, most of these kinds of groups go to *** hotels, not albergues.

 

[LisaWalker]

Zubiri was full early yesterday (by 2:30, according to some pilgrims who came to Pamplona today), but Zubiri opened up a municipal building just past the town for some pilgrims to sleep on the floor! I haven’t seen that done before.

We all know these first few days are a choke point, but I am seeing panicking pilgrims who then conclude they need to book everywhere from now on, unfortunately.
The new albergue Betania had its first full night of the season last night. However, we didn’t fill until 5 pm.

A volunteer in SJPP reports over 1500 pilgrims registered in the last 5 days…

I slept on the floor on a dusty old mattress in a gymnasium in zubiri in September 2016. My least fave night on the Camino.

 

[Corned Beef]

I slept on the floor on a dusty old mattress in a gymnasium in zubiri in September 2016

So you got the upgrade?

 

[davejsy]

The hospitalero here told me "tour groups can reserve where individuals cant".

Definitely a few reasons come to mind why this is so. Whole tour groups are far less likely to be no shows, like may happen with individual pilgrims multi-booking or changing their minds. And, the other is that it is far more difficult for a multi-person tour group to turn up and find accommodation than it is for an individual.

In an ideal Camino world you would wish it wasn't so. But maybe you can plan accordingly to lessen the effects.

So the talk of who is a real pilgrim (which is of course not allowed or encouraged) is now old news. We now need to decide who is a real tour group!!!

 

[Kathar1na]

And with the intention to shed more light on the current situation for those who are not familiar with it at all and are surprised when they arrive in SJPP and want to walk to Pamplona: I think it is wrong to assume that there is now a big wave rolling along the Camino Francés from SJPP all the way to Santiago.

First of all, the numbers from SJPP are small, even when they reach more than say 300 a day. The daily numbers of pilgrims increase the closer one gets to Santiago, compared to the SJPP/Roncesvalles numbers.

Also, numerous pilgrims from Spain and elsewhere from Europe do not walk from SJPP to SdC in one go. They walk in sections of 2 weeks or a bit more or even less. They will start again the following year where they had stopped the year before. And they may always start again around the 1st of May holiday or around the Ascension holiday and/or the Whitsun holiday or just because the end of April/beginning of May is a great time to walk because the climate / weather is regarded as the most promising and most suitable period of the year by them and for them. Every year again.

So nobody ought to be surprised that they are not alone and that many others had the same idea of starting in late April/early May.

 

[LisaWalker]

So you got the upgrade?

 

[LisaWalker]

Must have. No problems, just used my passport to scrape off the cobwebs and dust layers. Made for the communal shower in the morning. Took a look at 5 or 6 naked women in there all showering together and suddenly I no longer needed a shower.

 

[peregrino_tom]

So now I am now renting a room with some random man from Australia I met on the street

@suziBee I hoped that worked out OK?

 

[Purple Backpack]

From those on the trail now, is it worth adding a light, short sleeping pad? If the towns open up school gyms or churches, are mats available?

 

[arfajajc]

I initially agreed completely with you. And then I thought about it a little more.

We all talk about the fact that it is not up to us to judge who is a pilgrim and who is not, or how another Pilgrim should walk their Camino. @J Willhaus & @Kathar1na have both provided excellent reasons why booking groups is the case and that it is clearly a long-standing practice.

Last year I reported on a friend of mine leading in a 90 plus strong group of young Italian students, and many of us on here cheered them in. There was another group immediately ahead of them on the trail - the same situation.

On my Camino Inglés last year one tour group took practically the entire albergue in Betanzos. In this case all spaniards (complete families), I believe a church group. An incredibly important occasion for them (Semana Santa). Again, pre-booked.

The list goes on and on. Had they all not been able to book they could not have gone. Whilst it disturbs our individual plans we are exactly that - individuals. As individuals we can fit around groups, take up those odd beds that they leave vacant, use a hotel for one or two nights - but splitting one group amongst multiple accommodation options would be a logistical and practical nightmare. And hotel's for the entire Camino would make it substantially more expensive, making it out of the question for some.

Municipal Albergues are provided by the municipalities. Which means they have a responsibility to their fellow spaniards. (School groups, church group's etc).

And as for the situations when they are not municipal Albergues: the owners are running a business, they need to make a profit in order to still be there for us next year. So of course they will take a large group booking.

So in hindsight, no, I do not think there is anything wrong with this picture.

@Peterexpatkiwi, having read your post and thought it through, I think you're right, and my initial thoughts of impending doom were perhaps misplaced.

I guess my only concern is that the groups who can book out otherwise non-reservable beds in municipal albuerges are hopefully not tour groups of overseas holiday-makers (as opposed to student or church groups etc). I'm not saying who is or isn't a pilgrim - simply that if holiday tour groups start to proliferate, it could fundamentally change (end?) the ability of individual pilgrims to walk their Camino without having to pre-book all of their accommodation in advance.

 

[J Willhaus]

From those on the trail now, is it worth adding a light, short sleeping pad? If the towns open up school gyms or churches, are mats available?

Before you buy one, check the giveaway box or find out if mats are available where a space is offered.

Edit: Many things like that are abandoned by pilgrims by Estella.

 

[Purple Backpack]

Before you buy one, check the giveaway box or find out if mats are available where a space is offered.

Edit: Many things like that are abandoned by pilgrims by Estella.

I backpack at home so have one, just don’t take it on Caminos. Maybe that should change!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Grrrrrr.
No comment, except to say that I think something is wrong with this picture.

what is wrong is Money is the motivator.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I'm not saying who is or isn't a pilgrim - simply that if holiday tour groups start to proliferate, it could fundamentally change (end?) the ability of individual pilgrims to walk their Camino without having to pre-book all of their accommodation in advance.

Yes, that is certainly a valid concern - however I think it is unlikely to become reality. Whilst the number of groups has supposedly increased significantly over the years, larger groups have walked the Camino for many years now. There are a significant number of threads on the forum of 'Times gone by', when pilgrim accommodation was very limited, and certainly not as sophisticated or comfortable as we now enjoy. As demand grew so did the infrastructure.

And a great many of us will never use those groups. Hence, so long as demand remains I suspect the infrastructure will be there to support us.

 

[Bradypus]

And a great many of us will never use those groups. Hence, so long as demand remains I suspect the infrastructure will be there to support us.

There will always be a bit of a lag time between supply and demand. For most of the year the balance seems pretty good. A few fairly predictable busy periods like the May 1st holidays create rather more heat than light most years but that usually fades away quite quickly. As posts above have suggested local councils and other bodies will generally find some indoor space for the overspill on the exceptionally busy days. The odd night on a mattress on the floor of a sports hall is not the end of the world. I always carry a lightweight bivvy bag to give myself the option of a night under the stars if conditions permit. I don't think I've ever been forced to do so by pressure of numbers.

 

[VNwalking]

The odd night on a mattress on the floor of a sports hall is not the end of the world.

Far from it. People are now expecting better digs, but this kind of thing was once more common - and received with gratitude.

 

[Bradypus]

Far from it. People are now expecting better digs, but this kind of thing was once more common - and received with gratitude.

On my first Camino a few pilgrim refugios offered only mats on the floor or occasionally just a bare floor where you could lay out your own mat and sleeping bag. In O Cebreiro pilgrims slept on straw on the beaten earth floor of one of the stone pallozas. By candlelight. Another century. I am now feeling extremely old...

 

[Luka]

Numbers arriving in Santiago are unusually large at the moment too. 2,127 Compostelas issued yesterday. 2,614 Compostelas issued today. An early date for Easter this year may have brought the peak pilgrimage season forward a little. At the moment the running Compostela total for the year is 21% up on the same period last year.

Well, this is something different than the occasional completo town. I find an increase of 21% in the first (almost) 4 months quite staggering.

 

[Kathar1na]

Well, this is something different than the occasional completo town. I find an increase of 21% in the first (almost) 4 months quite staggering.

Perhaps somebody can check this: On the statistics page of the Oficina del Peregrino, when I select the Camino Francés and deselect Sarria, there is a decrease (-5%) for the almost 4 months of 2024 compared to 2023.

This is for Compostelas in 2024 until 28 April.

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Well, this is something different than the occasional completo town. I find an increase of 21% in the first (almost) 4 months quite staggering.

Unfortunately the numbers hide much more interesting information.

The reality is that there is no increase on the Frances, there is a change in when people walk but no increase.

The increase that is happening is almost all in the shorter Caminos such as the Portuguese Camino and from 100klm from Santiago de Compostela.

 

[Bradypus]

Perhaps somebody can check this: On the statistics page of the Oficina del Peregrino, when I select the Camino Francés and deselect Sarria, there is a decrease (-5%) for the almost 4 months of 2024 compared to 2023.

This is for Compostelas in 2024 until 28 April.

Odd. When I do the same the result is an increase of 15% for that 4 month period. Which is roughly in line with the specific figures for those recorded as starting from SJPDP and Roncesvalles.

Last year the arrivals statistics for January, February, March and April listed 2,103 who began in SJPDP and 460 who began in Roncesvalles. So far this year 2,336 have given SJPDP as their starting point and 553 named Roncesvalles. The increase in numbers starting in Sarria is similar in proportion - 19,429 last year and 23,309 this year.

My own guess is that the earlier date of Easter this year has shifted the start of the main pilgrim season a little and that the current increase in the running total of Compostelas for the year to date will gradually decrease over time. Unfortunately I have not seen any figures from the SJPDP pilgrim office so far this year so comparing numbers leaving SJPDP and numbers arriving in Santiago is not possible. And of course there will always be a time delay of a month or so before those leaving SJPDP begin to feature in the Compostela figures.

 

[davejsy]

I wonder now if there is also an element of earlier Camino's because historically April has had fine weather, whereas the summers are becoming even hotter, ie is the Camino changing due to climate change.

I think @DoughnutANZ is probably correct in that overall there will probably be little to no increase on the CF, just a shift of when people are walking. And this makes sense because at the top end of the CF there are likely to be a very small increase in those that can a) take the amount of time off and, b) want to walk 500 miles. Whereas the shorter routes. . .

 

[Bradypus]

And this makes sense because at the top end of the CF there are likely to be a very small increase in those that can a) take the amount of time off and, b) want to walk 500 miles. Whereas the shorter routes. . .

I think that (a) and (b) account for much of the remarkable rise in numbers walking the Portugues variants from Porto. A longer and more substantial experience than walking the bare minimum distance required for a Compostela but also achievable within the vacation time available to many.

 

[Kathar1na]

Odd. When I do the same the result is an increase of 15% for that 4 month period.

I did it again and it is still a negative. There is likely to be a small plus once the 29th and the 30th are included.

However, my point is actually this: To be careful with the interpretation, comparison and extrapolation of data.

That a few fairly predictable busy periods like the May 1st holidays create rather more heat than light most years but that usually fades away quite quickly happens exactly for that reason: people estimate and extrapolate in all directions, for the whole Camino Francés, for the whole year, for the whole next four to five weeks etc. while there is no reasonable base for doing so.

Comparisons of numbers from SJPP with numbers from SdC ought to be interpreted also with caution: Those who register in SJPP may be not congruent with those who get a Compostela in SdC, and there are also pilgrims who start in a specific year in SJPP but arrive in SdC in a different year (not only in a different month!). Those who are counted in SJPP are not identical with those who start in SJPP. There are numerous variables to be considered to obtain meaningful conclusions.

FWIW:

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Pilgrims sleeping on floors, in doorways, outside??? OMG!!!
We have upgraded and monetized and marketed the camino right back to the Old Days, when lords and ladies slept secure in their pre-booked beds, and pilgrims slept on floors, in doorways, and outside.

 

[Kathar1na]

I posted this in another thread: Monday 29 April looks like the least busy day of these busy days in Roncesvalles [and hence in SJPP], and the whole week from Tuesday 30 April to Monday 6 May looks currently like very busy indeed. With an explanation for the basis for this prediction.

I noticed just now that Ascension Day will be on the 9th of May this year. Last year is was on the 18th and the year before it was on the 26th of May. Ascension Day is always on a Thursday. It is public holiday in numerous countries and being a Thursday it makes it an attractive day for starting for a longer or shorter leisure journey - it is a suitable date for making it a "long weekend" or a "bridge weekend". If you don't know it yet, be prepared for it. On my long way to Santiago, I had friends and colleagues accompany me for a few days from time to time. It was always over the long Ascension Day weekend and/or the long Whitsun weekend which comes 10 days later.

Buen Camino to all who start the Camino Francés between SJPP and Pamplona in the coming days!

 

[Bradypus]

I did it again and it is still a negative. There is likely to be a small plus once the 29th and the 30th are included.

Some problem with the software at my end I think. Still shows as a 15% increase in the headline bar on my screen when I select only the Frances and exclude Sarria. But looking at the table of "Peregrinos por Procedencia" then the total for 2023 is 8,997 and for 2024 is 8,658. So that is in line with the decrease that you mention if you discount Sarria. Although numbers recorded as starting from SJPDP, Roncesvalles and Pamplona are all up slightly this year.

Comparisons of numbers from SJPP with numbers from SdC ought to be interpreted also with caution: Those who register in SJPP may be not congruent with those who get a Compostela in SdC, and there are also pilgrims who start in a specific year in SJPP but arrive in SdC in a different year (not only in a different month!). Those who are counted in SJPP are not identical with those who start in SJPP. There are numerous variables to be considered to obtain meaningful conclusions.

That is all true of course. But those factors would probably be similar for all years and so a broad comparison of overall numbers for the same period last year and this year is still reasonable. I am not attempting or implying any more complex or sophisticated interpretation of the statistics than that. I just had a look at the excellent Solviturambulando website and was struck by this graph which I think supports the idea that the earlier date of Easter has moved the normal spring build-up in numbers slightly earlier. Of course this represents all those arriving in Santiago and claiming a Compostela and does not necessarily reflect the situation on the eastern end of the Frances.

 

[Kathar1na]

those factors would be probably be similar for all years and so a broad comparison of overall numbers for the same period last year and this year is still reasonable.

I think we agree: These data are useful tools for broad comparisons and general trends. And they may help to dampen the excitement about current daily figures from one source or other . And perhaps even help one or the other reader to be more prepared and informed if they are on the verge of boarding their plane to the Camino Francés and its environment that is far away and, at least during the first few days, quite unfamiliar to them.

 

[Bradypus]

And they may help to dampen the excitement about current daily figures from one source or other.

I reserve the right to be thoroughly gobsmacked by the current numbers! Over 5,000 Compostelas issued in the last two days. More than were handed out in the entire year of my first Camino. In April!

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

More than were handed out in the entire year of my first Camino.

You were saying?

I am now feeling extremely old...

 

[Kathar1na]

I reserve the right to be thoroughly gobsmacked by the current numbers! Over 5,000 Compostelas issued in the last two days. More than were handed out in the entire year of my first Camino. In April!

I sometimes wish that we could give several 'reaction' icons to a post. I hesitated between , , , and .

 

[davejsy]

I reserve the right to be thoroughly gobsmacked by the current numbers! Over 5,000 Compostelas issued in the last two days. More than were handed out in the entire year of my first Camino. In April!

I now blame @Bradypus for the obvious explosion in numbers on the CF which appears to have coincided on a gradual upward trajectory since his first Camino. The stats are compelling.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I am going to be interested to see how the rest of the year pans out. 446,035 pilgrims registered last year, extremely likely it will exceed 450,000 pilgrims this year. Will it top 500,000 or just end up somewhere in between? I suspect the latter, but don’t have anything to support that.

 

[Bradypus]

I am going to be interested to see how the rest of the year pans out. 446,035 pilgrims registered last year, extremely likely it will exceed 450,000 pilgrims this year. Will it top 500,000 or just end up somewhere in between? I suspect the latter, but don’t have anything to support that.

My own guess is that there will be some increase in numbers - that has happened pretty consistently every year since 1984 if you disregard the large spikes in numbers during Holy Years. Early signs suggest that across all the Caminos numbers will be up although what happens on the Frances before Sarria is anyone's guess. People are increasingly looking at other routes these days. Like you I think the final Compostela total will end up over 450,000 but short of half a million.

 

[Kathar1na]

I am going to be interested to see how the rest of the year pans out. 446,035 pilgrims registered last year, extremely likely it will exceed 450,000 pilgrims this year. Will it top 500,000 or just end up somewhere in between? I suspect the latter, but don’t have anything to support that.

The behaviour patterns of large populations (pilgrims and others) intrigues me .

As to the more recent growth rates for Compostela numbers from one year to the next where such a comparison makes sense (i.e. 2011 to 2019), they were: 5%, 12%, 10%, 10%, 6%, 8%, 9%, 6%.

A 12% growth rate in 2024, compared to 2023, will bring the total to 499,559.2 - so this is my prediction. ()

 

[Bradypus]

A 12% growth rate in 2024, compared to 2023, will bring the total to 499,559.2 - so this is my prediction. ()

0.2 of a Compostela? 20km. Starting somewhere around O Pedrouzo perhaps. I wonder which lucky pilgrim will get to claim that one....

 

[Becky 59]

The behaviour patterns of large populations (pilgrims and others) intrigues me .

As to the more recent growth rates for Compostela numbers from one year to the next where such a comparison makes sense (i.e. 2011 to 2019), they were: 5%, 12%, 10%, 10%, 6%, 8%, 9%, 6%.

A 12% growth rate in 2024, compared to 2023, will bring the total to 499,559.2 - so this is my prediction. ()

But who is going to be the 0.2 perigrino? Perhaps someone 2 months pregnant?

 

[davejsy]

I guess of course the increase is not just down to popularity. Other factors could be overall population increases, more people able to take career breaks/sabaticals, more wealth in the retired populations and those populations remaining healthier for longer, and maybe the general trend of more people seeking meaning/purpose/other existential aspects in their lives.

 

[Bradypus]

I guess of course the increase is not just down to popularity. Other factors could be overall population increases, more people able to take career breaks/sabaticals, more wealth in the retired populations and those populations remaining healthier for longer, and maybe the general trend of more people seeking meaning/purpose/other existential aspects in their lives.

From a purely practical standpoint another factor is that walking a Camino now is physically far easier than it used to be. Vastly improved infrastructure of albergues, hostals, bars and so on. So stages now can be shorter and there is less to carry. Plus the advent of cheap luggage transport for those who want it. All of which makes the Caminos a more readily promoted option. The age profile of those walking Caminos has changed a great deal over the years - on average we are much older these days. Peak season used to be July and August because the largest section of the pilgrim population were students of typical school and university age. Still true for the shorter Caminos where large groups of younger people tend to walk in the summer months and other vacation periods.

 

[Kathar1na]

I guess of course the increase is not just down to popularity. Other factors could be overall population increases, more people able to take career breaks/sabaticals, more wealth in the retired populations and those populations remaining healthier for longer, and maybe the general trend of more people seeking meaning/purpose/other existential aspects in their lives.

Yes. "Slow travel" has become more and more popular and appeals to increasingly wider segments of the general population. The link below is for the American market but it applies to people in other countries, too. In Germany for example, "hiking" has continued to gain popularity for many many years. In their context, it is not associated with strenuous tough outdoors but with pleasantly slow and not too strenuous but continuous physical exercise in the natural environment, without having to carry food and tent or bivvy bag because food, drink and accommodation is available and plentiful, and it all is beneficial for one's body and one's mind. And soul.

Plus what @Bradypus wrote in the previous post.

U.S. Travel Trends: The Rise of Slow Travel

Our survey of 1,095 Americans examines vacation habits and the rise of the slow travel trend.

www.carlfriedrik.com

 

[VNwalking]

I just had a look at the excellent Solviturambulando website and was struck by this graph which I think supports the idea that the earlier date of Easter has moved the normal spring build-up in numbers slightly earlier.

The mellow numbers some of us were reporting a little while ago now make sense - we were walking in the trough.

I see a second thing besides the earlier peak this year, and it's that the trough is higher than last year's but also broader - it lasted a bit longer.

From a purely practical standpoint another factor is that walking a Camino now is physically far easier than it used to be.

Very true.

Pilgrims sleeping on floors, in doorways, outside??? OMG!!!
We have upgraded and monetized and marketed the camino right back to the Old Days, when lords and ladies slept secure in their pre-booked beds, and pilgrims slept on floors, in doorways, and outside.

I LOLd when I read this. Touché. These days I'm afraid I'm more like the upstairs crowd, but hope if I had to sleep under a church porch I'd have the grace not to complain. But TBH I don't know if I would. More likely I'd be grousing about the tour group that took 'my' bunk.

people estimate and extrapolate in all directions, for the whole Camino Francés, for the whole year, for the whole next four to five weeks etc. while there is no reasonable base for doing so.

Exactly.

A 12% growth rate in 2024, compared to 2023, will bring the total to 499,559.2 - so this is my prediction. ()

OK, since we're going to ignore @Kathar1na and extrapolate away, I'll go with 5.749% which gives a total increase of 25,647.0125 pilgrims year over last for a total of 471,682.0125. (If I win the ridiculous sweepstakes, can I please have a lifetime supply of pimentos de Padron?)

I sometimes wish that we could give several 'reaction' icons to a post. I hesitated between , , , and .

Me too. And

 

[Bob P]

Gang, the numbers are just fascinating,,, except when I was walking in hard wind, rain and sleet those extra 4k into the Moratino two nights ago. Guess I should've tried some of that "lords and ladies" taxi stuff
Jumped ahead to an undisclosed location to try to stealth my way down the way.
Buen Camino

 

[Kirkie]

The mellow numbers some of us were reporting a little while ago now make sense - we were walking in the trough.

I see a second thing besides the earlier peak this year, and it's that the trough is higher than last year's but also broader - it lasted a bit longer.


Very true.


I LOLd when I read this. Touché. These days I'm afraid I'm more like the upstairs crowd, but hope if I had to sleep under a church porch I'd have the grace not to complain. But TBH I don't know if I would. More likely I'd be grousing about the tour group that took 'my' bunk.


Exactly.


OK, since we're going to ignore @Kathar1na and extrapolate away, I'll go with 5.749% which gives a total increase of 25,647.0125 pilgrims year over last for a total of 471,682.0125. (If I win the ridiculous sweepstakes, can I please have a lifetime supply of pimentos de Padron?)


Me too. And

The Padron peppers are all set up for you.
Accents supplied on laptop keyboard...

 

[Kathar1na]

I noticed just now that Ascension Day will be on the 9th of May this year.

And I had not thought of it until I saw it mentioned in a Le Puy en Velais thread: Wednesday the 8th of May is a public holiday in France (Victory Day 1945) ... that must be an attractive combination for Camino walkers from France this year.

But please don't panic anyone. You are not going to get overrun. It will just be a bit busier ...

 

[HeidiL]

Every time I have volunteered in Grado, which is the first stop after Oviedo for most people on the Primitivo, we were full very early on Saturdays. A lot of people start walking on Saturdays; if you can hold back and start a couple of days later (or walk non-Brierley distances) you will probably find things a lot easier.

 

[gregrobinson]

It's tight!
I'm now past Terridillos de Los Temparillos. Got turned away at both Albergues there that were "completo" at 2pm, that told me yesterday they took no reservations. Then the girl behind me checked in tour group of twelve. Every town has been full in the small places (at any price range) and then watching the big Albergues go completo by 4 or 5pm. First day I've had to keep going to get a bed. The hospitalero here told me "tour groups can reserve where individuals cant".

This is a bad policy to let tour groups book. The policy has traditionally been to give beds to those on foot who walked a long way first. We are the ones that keep the Camino alive.

 

[gregrobinson]

I initially agreed completely with you. And then I thought about it a little more.

We all talk about the fact that it is not up to us to judge who is a pilgrim and who is not, or how another Pilgrim should walk their Camino. @J Willhaus & @Kathar1na have both provided excellent reasons why booking groups is the case and that it is clearly a long-standing practice.

Last year I reported on a friend of mine leading in a 90 plus strong group of young Italian students, and many of us on here cheered them in. There was another group immediately ahead of them on the trail - the same situation.

On my Camino Inglés last year one tour group took practically the entire albergue in Betanzos. In this case all spaniards (complete families), I believe a church group. An incredibly important occasion for them (Semana Santa). Again, pre-booked.

The list goes on and on. Had they all not been able to book they could not have gone. Whilst it disturbs our individual plans we are exactly that - individuals. As individuals we can fit around groups, take up those odd beds that they leave vacant, use a hotel for one or two nights - but splitting one group amongst multiple accommodation options would be a logistical and practical nightmare. And hotel's for the entire Camino would make it substantially more expensive, making it out of the question for some.

Municipal Albergues are provided by the municipalities. Which means they have a responsibility to their fellow spaniards. (School groups, church group's etc).

And as for the situations when they are not municipal Albergues: the owners are running a business, they need to make a profit in order to still be there for us next year. So of course they will take a large group booking.

So in hindsight, no, I do not think there is anything wrong with this picture.

I totally disagree. This kind of policy is what ruined the music/concerts in the US. Booking companies buy up all of the tickets and pump the prices and only release the ones they can't sell. This will force everyone to prebook through the booking companies at 2x the price or they can't go.

 

[KiwiJohn]

I initially agreed completely with you. And then I thought about it a little more.

We all talk about the fact that it is not up to us to judge who is a pilgrim and who is not, or how another Pilgrim should walk their Camino. @J Willhaus & @Kathar1na have both provided excellent reasons why booking groups is the case and that it is clearly a long-standing practice.

Last year I reported on a friend of mine leading in a 90 plus strong group of young Italian students, and many of us on here cheered them in. There was another group immediately ahead of them on the trail - the same situation.

On my Camino Inglés last year one tour group took practically the entire albergue in Betanzos. In this case all spaniards (complete families), I believe a church group. An incredibly important occasion for them (Semana Santa). Again, pre-booked.

The list goes on and on. Had they all not been able to book they could not have gone. Whilst it disturbs our individual plans we are exactly that - individuals. As individuals we can fit around groups, take up those odd beds that they leave vacant, use a hotel for one or two nights - but splitting one group amongst multiple accommodation options would be a logistical and practical nightmare. And hotel's for the entire Camino would make it substantially more expensive, making it out of the question for some.

Municipal Albergues are provided by the municipalities. Which means they have a responsibility to their fellow spaniards. (School groups, church group's etc).

And as for the situations when they are not municipal Albergues: the owners are running a business, they need to make a profit in order to still be there for us next year. So of course they will take a large group booking.

So in hindsight, no, I do not think there is anything wrong with this picture.

Well said, Kiwi. Remember our DOC huts and having to sleep outside in our tents, sharing with innumerable sandflies! Now, that' roughing it!

 

[VNwalking]

sharing with innumerable sandflies!

Yeah. And in the West Coast rain.
We can count our blessings. For starters there are no sandflies on the Camino.

my totally unproven scientific theory is that post-covid, a lot of people in general are not good with letting go of control. Heck I was a bit nervous on my first camino, but not like what I'm seeing now. It's just my personal observation on how camino conversations have shifted over the years.

There may be something to this. We all need to remember that a night on the gym floor - or even under a church porch - isn't that much of a discomfort in the bigger scheme of things. Lots of people have to live like that all the time.

 

[Anniesantiago]

This is a bad policy to let tour groups book. The policy has traditionally been to give beds to those on foot who walked a long way first. We are the ones that keep the Camino alive.

As a person who books those nefarious ‘tour groups’ each year, let me assure you that we are NOT the ones taking up albergue beds!

The people booking in groups are often older or retired and do not WANT to sleep in a room with others. They want their own room and bathroom when possible. And so we tend to book private rooms in hotels, apartments, casa rurales, or pensions whenever available.

In the past I have booked 7 beds at the Roncesvalles Albergue to give my pilgrims the opportunity to experience albergue sleeping. I booked a private for myself. There aren’t many options in Roncesvalles. This year and last we have booked a triple, a quad, and a double at La Posada. That is THREE rooms. So we are not the ones filling up Roncesvalles.

In my experience, larger groups staying in Albergues are religious groups or school groups. To me those have more of a right to beds than people clicking the Camino off their bucket list, but that’s my own opinion.

The FACT is the Camino has become a popular cheap vacation for many. People have seen movies about it and people have read books about it and they come here with stars in their eyes. Many don’t make it past the bottleneck. Just yesterday people in my group were offered equipment by people who had experienced the Napoleon and made the decision in Pamplona that they were finished.

As far as who is keeping the Camino alive, it is every person who pays for a bed or buys a dinner. While I am sure some local people consider the pilgrims as locusts, others considered them a blessing. When I look at how some of the villages that were ghost towns on my first Camino are now thriving and growing, I have to believe that at least some of the growth is due to the popularity of the Camino and the money spent by those walking.

Lastly, many first time pilgrims are no longer walking the Camino Frances. They are starting on the Portuguese route, or the Norte, or the VDLP.

As AlexWalker and others have shown by experience and said in their posts, finding a bed for the night is still possible and is a matter of good planning. Yes the numbers are up. Way up. And yes, the Camino still provides, but it may not be the way you want it to provide. God also answers prayers, but not always with the answer you were looking for. When Joe and I walked our first Camino so many years ago, I still remember getting into a village late and finding a Completo sign on the door. It is nothing new. We slept outside on the patio of an abandoned Inn one night. That is still one of my best memories.

We also spent more than one night on a thin pad on the floor of a parochial or a municipal with only two beds. Again, we were just thankful to have a place to lay our heads.

I guess it’s all I have to say. It’s early in the morning and I am up before daylight hoping to see a beautiful sunrise and a clear day for walking.

I hope each of you have a Buen Camino.

 

[Kirkie]

The Camino. Bottleneck. Proper pilgrim. Turigrino. Backpack forwarding. Other people...
Ok, I will stop. I have not read most of the posts, but the one immediately above this one, yes. A very clear piece, thanks, @Anniesantiago.You covered the issue rather well, and I hope you have a great day for walking.

 

[Cathy G]

It's tight!
I'm now past Terridillos de Los Temparillos. Got turned away at both Albergues there that were "completo" at 2pm, that told me yesterday they took no reservations. Then the girl behind me checked in tour group of twelve. Every town has been full in the small places (at any price range) and then watching the big Albergues go completo by 4 or 5pm. First day I've had to keep going to get a bed. The hospitalero here told me "tour groups can reserve where individuals cant".

We're in Boadilla del Camino right now. Turned away at Hornillos Minicipal at 1230h 2 days ago, along with at least 30 others behind us, and taxied back to Rabé as Hontanos was also full. Several big groups on the Camino right now and we seem to be walking "with" them. A bit worried about Carrión de los Condes for tomorrow night.

 

[NorthfaceJohn]

Zubiri was full early yesterday (by 2:30, according to some pilgrims who came to Pamplona today), but Zubiri opened up a municipal building just past the town for some pilgrims to sleep on the floor! I haven’t seen that done before.

We all know these first few days are a choke point, but I am seeing panicking pilgrims who then conclude they need to book everywhere from now on, unfortunately.
The new albergue Betania had its first full night of the season last night. However, we didn’t fill until 5 pm.

A volunteer in SJPP reports over 1500 pilgrims registered in the last 5 days…

Maybe it would be worth the extra weight that in addition to bringing a sleeping bag, to also bring a bivuac and foam mat, so that if there is no accommodation one could sleep under the stars.

 

[good_old_shoes]

Maybe it would be worth the extra weight that in addition to bringing a sleeping bag, to also bring a bivuac and foam mat, so that if there is no accommodation one could sleep under the stars.

Yep. I now always bring my tent. Not because I'm worried about accommodation, but it certainly means more choice of where to sleep at night, especially when walking longer days / well into the evening. The campsites also have good, hot showers. And I can leave beds to those who do not have the option of sleeping outside.

At least a foam mat would be a good idea to bring during such busy times - in case an overflow building is opened.

It used to be normal to bring a sleeping mat from what I read, but nowadays pilgrims are usually discouraged from bringing one, as it is considered "not necessary and too much weight". Well, until the only spot to sleep is the floor of a sports gym or under a church porch... then you'll wish you had one...!

 

[Bradypus]

It used to be normal to bring a sleeping mat from what I read, but nowadays pilgrims are usually discouraged from bringing one, as it is considered "not necessary and too much weight".

Pretty much obligatory on my first Camino as a few of the refugios only offered bare floor space on which you could lay out your own mat and sleeping bag. In many places there were no private rooms and refugios were the only option. And later a mat was useful for sleeping on the floor of albergues when all the beds were taken. At one time that was a fairly common practice but that is no longer an option because local authorities now enforce strict limits on numbers for safety reasons.

 

[trecile]

Sleeping mats are now one of the most discarded items from pilgrims' backpacks.

 

[good_old_shoes]

Sleeping mats are now one of the most discarded items from pilgrims' backpacks.

Well, I've certainly kept mine, which I brought to every Camino since 2017, even when I didn't camp...

 

[Kathar1na]

I've just played my indicator game again.

For the current week 5-12 May (Sunday to Sunday) it still looks very busy on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for Roncesvalles, less busy on Wednesday, and very busy again on Thursday - that's the 9th of May and Ascension Day and a public holiday in numerous countries so it is ideal for a long weekend and for starting a longer period of being off work. The coming weekend (Fri-Sun 10-12) looks a little bit less busy than the weekend that is now ending (3-5).

This is only meant as a fuzzy snapshot and not divination but the worst may already be over and we can turn our attention and energy again to toilet paper, the booming backpack transport business and cheap holidays.

 

[Pafayac]

So in hindsight, no, I do not think there is anything wrong with this picture.

At least, that raises a question about the business around the Camino, in my opinion....

 

[Pafayac]

right back to the Old Days, when lords and ladies slept secure in their pre-booked beds, and pilgrims slept on floors, in doorways, and outside.

In the Old Days, lords and ladies slept secure at home, in their own beds, while paid pilgrims were walking for them.
Indeed, here is my announcement:
I am ready to walk on behalf of anybody, for a reasonable amount of money (and a provision of pimientos de Padrón).

 

[Kirkie]

I've just played my indicator game again.

For the current week 5-12 May (Sunday to Sunday) it still looks very busy on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday for Roncesvalles, less busy on Wednesday, and very busy again on Thursday - that's the 9th of May and Ascension Day and a public holiday in numerous countries so it is ideal for a long weekend and for starting a longer period of being off work. The coming weekend (Fri-Sun 10-12) looks a little bit less busy than the weekend that is now ending (3-5).

This is only meant as a fuzzy snapshot and not divination but the worst may already be over and we can turn our attention and energy again to toilet paper, the booming backpack transport business and cheap holidays.

I began by saying you provoked me, but that is incorrect.
Corrected version: 10th till 18th May I ought to be off grid, not in Spain, but in the country where I reside, and of which I am now am a citizen (after more than 50 years of residence).
I won't be taking a bed from anyone who is on Camino. I wish you all the best of luck, and to be honest, am delighted to think I will not be worrying about a bed during my off grid time!
There is no doubt whatsoever that preparing for, and walking, a Camino, a pilgrimage, is somewhat different to my first which was the CF, from Roncesvalles (Imagine! It was not SJPdP!) June/July, 2006.
I wish those who set off these days the very best of good luck, good planning, and good health.
And I end with a question: what are you looking for? Don't tell me. Tell yourself.

 

[Kathar1na]

Sleeping mats are now one of the most discarded items from pilgrims' backpacks.

Yes. And people who are on their first Camino, who come from far away and who have never done anything like this before are surprised and even disappointed when they find that, upon their arrival in Roncesvalles or Zubiri or even Pamplona on a weekend, beds are not plenty and not waiting for them - contrary to what they had been told or read. It is a normal reaction.

So it is useful for them to know beforehand that this can happen at the beginning of May, that there are practical options they had not been aware of - taxis, non-bookable dormitory beds, gym mats in a sports hall or space in other publicly managed buildings that may be made available by the town's administration for a few days but not as a permanent solution.

@Ianinam said, if I remember correctly, that they have to turn away 30-40 pilgrims on peak days at the Roncesvalles albergue. They can't all sleep on their own mats on the ground in an albergue, not even in a large albergue as there are health and safety rules for large crowds in particular, and there may be no stars to sleep under when it is near freezing point and snowing as it did only a few days ago in Roncesvalles and a dense cloud cover and fog are hanging over the place. The volunteers in SJPP and Roncesvalles are very helpful and do their utmost to find a bed for you somewhere but it may be 20+ km further down the line - there is no need to call the police to find accommodation for you.

I think that most newcomers will get the hang of it all after a few days, don't they?