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Search 69,459 Camino Questions

Alternatives to walking if injured

Time of past OR future Camino
may 2024
Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.

Updaate: Hospital says a few more days of rest. My thoughts are to go on to Leon, and walk and taxi the rest of the camino. I thought about biking, but it may be more complicated to do on my own than I am prepared for. Thank you all for the suggestions and support.
Linda
 
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Well that is pretty sad - sorry to hear that. I had to come home early last month as my old knee trauma flared badly again - can't do it any more so that was my last walking Camino (will return to do first aid with my car in future).

All depends on how mobile you are really - rest usually means rest! but ....

Does depend on the knee injury but often cycling causes no pain - as the knee isn't swivelling side to side and isn't having weight pushed through it - if it is that sort of injury then you could buy the cheapest bike there is and continue by bike?

But if "stuck" in Burgos .. able to walk a little? Are you squeamish? How about doing first aid for pilgrims? You could visit the biggest refugio every afternoon until evening then join in a pilgrim meal (for the social side of things), then be there first thing to help before they leave? Become the Burgos Camino Samaritan? If that interests you message me and I will send you all the info you would need, from how to do blisters to what to buy.

Go to the largest refugio, explain, ask them if they would like you to help on the welcoming desk for all the incoming English speakers every day?

Or ... well .. what skills do you have? Massage? - that would do well, just pick the biggest refugio, explain, and go from there.
Can you cook? If there is a refugio with a good kitchen .. could you set yourself up to do a pilgrim meal every evening? Take in five euros from each pilgrim who wants to join in, cook a fun meal every night? As there are new pilgrims each day you could do the same meal each day ... ?

Go to Santiago ... make a sign saying "information for English speakers" or similar, put it on a length of wood, buy a folding chair, tie it to the back of that, and set yourself up in the cathedral square? Find out everything there is to know that pilgrims want/need to know .. how to get a compostela, where to stay, compostela laminator shops, souvenir shops, toilets, best cafe at best price, where Ivar's luggage store is, how to get to the airport, nearest pharmacy/doctor surgery, etc, etc .. get free maps from the tourist office ... be a fountain of knowledge and help all pilgrims that speak English?

eerrmmmm .. all I can think of ...
 
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Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.
Two months is a long time, and a great opportunity, though understand you will be disappointed. How about buying a 1 or 2 month railpass that covers 33 countries in Europe and getting around the place. Coming into nice weather in many parts.
 
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Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.
That of course as usual depends on a number of factors, not the least of which being budget. It also depends on the type of person you are. Are you somebody that always needs mental stimulation or are you quite happy sitting and relaxing on a beach. Do you prefer rural, a small town, or big cities. Your lack of Spanish will of course affect this to some degree as an ability to communicate can be an issue.

That in itself is something that could be addressed. Let's face it if you have a knee injury you're not very mobile, so sitting in a classroom learning Spanish may be making the most of a bad situation. Plus which it will put you in contact with other people, many of whom will speak at least some English. Which will then also improve your other options, let alone your social life. I recall people posting on here about doing exactly that, perhaps some of them would be kind enough to give you suggestions.

Renting on a short to medium term basis is relatively easy nowadays with so many online platforms available. And the more you rest up the faster you will heal - at least to a point. Staying in one place will give you the opportunity to make connections for health care etc (such as a decent physio). There is no better way to get to know somewhere than to rent an apartment short-term and get to know some of the locals. In Greece for example I got to know some of the local restaurateurs, and was frequently offered dishes that were not on the menu.

European travel is another option although I would be rather reluctant in this regard, because personally I like to explore when I'm visiting a city - something you're not going to be really able to do.
 
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Hello Maybe this suggestion will help.Do you know that from Burgos you are starting the flattest part of the whole Camino. Why not rest for the moment and then plod(slowly walk) to Leon and then rest and consider bus to Sarria see how you are and with positive thinking arrive Santiago.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Hello, and I'm sorry to hear of your knee pain. It's so hard to rest when you want to be walking. You could consider signing up for a Spanish language school while you're resting, give your brain something fun to do while you rest your body. If you search this forum, you can read some threads on the topic. Good luck!
 
Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.

Well that is pretty sad - sorry to hear that. I had to come home early last month as my old knee trauma flared badly again - can't do it any more so that was my last walking Camino (will return to do first aid with my car in future).

All depends on how mobile you are really - rest usually means rest! but ....

Does depend on the knee injury but often cycling causes no pain - as the knee isn't swivelling side to side and isn't having weight pushed through it - if it is that sort of injury then you could buy the cheapest bike there is and continue by bike?

But if "stuck" in Burgos .. able to walk a little? Are you squeamish? How about doing first aid for pilgrims? You could visit the biggest refugio every afternoon until evening then join in a pilgrim meal (for the social side of things), then be there first thing to help before they leave? Become the Burgos Camino Samaritan? If that interests you message me and I will send you all the info you would need, from how to do blisters to what to buy.

Go to the largest refugio, explain, ask them if they would like you to help on the welcoming desk for all the incoming English speakers every day?

Or ... well .. what skills do you have? Massage? - that would do well, just pick the biggest refugio, explain, and go from there.
Can you cook? If there is a refugio with a good kitchen .. could you set yourself up to do a pilgrim meal every evening? Take in five euros from each pilgrim who wants to join in, cook a fun meal every night? As there are new pilgrims each day you could do the same meal each day ... ?

Go to Santiago ... make a sign saying "information for English speakers" or similar, put it on a length of wood, buy a folding chair, tie it to the back of that, and set yourself up in the cathedral square? Find out everything there is to know that pilgrims want/need to know .. how to get a compostela, where to stay, compostela laminator shops, souvenir shops, toilets, best cafe at best price, where Ivar's luggage store is, how to get to the airport, nearest pharmacy/doctor surgery, etc, etc .. get free maps from the tourist office ... be a fountain of knowledge and help all pilgrims that speak English?

eerrmmmm .. all I can think of ...
These are really great ideas! But may be out side my comfort zone as I am a bit of an introvert. From what I noticed so far of those riding bikes is that I would be walking my bike along. I do realize that the terrain is getting flatter now.
I did train as an E.M.T some 40 years ago and I am pretty good at helping others prevent and treat blisters. I am good at gear shakedowns and the like but my career has been a Makeup artist for print and t.v. lol.. not much use on the Camino.
 
Hello Maybe this suggestion will help.Do you know that from Burgos you are starting the flattest part of the whole Camino. Why not rest for the moment and then plod(slowly walk) to Leon and then rest and consider bus to Sarria see how you are and with positive thinking arrive Santiago.
I am hoping that I could at least do as you suggest. Practicing patience and being hopeful that I will be able to shuffle along.
 
Get a spanish phone number with Airalo. eSim, so no physical SIM card. Easy to use app to add more funds if needed.
Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.
I took the bus and went to the Guggenhiem Museum in Bilbao for two day break while on the Camino. It's an extraordinary museum.
 
I am hoping that I could at least do as you suggest. Practicing patience and being hopeful that I will be able to shuffle along.
At least consider trying what David suggests. He is one of our very cherished, long-time experienced members. He is famous for doing Caminos while toting a trailer of medical supplies to provide a rolling urgent care clinic.

You might find that you like it. It will help you move from being an introvert to an extrovert.

Helping people on my Caminos did that for me, more than a decade ago. Now, between “paying it forward” on Camino, and volunteering at the Pilgrim Office in Santiago, this is simply “what I do” and “who I am.”

I wish you well,

Tom
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
I think a bike might be the answer. I had knee pain for years and it used to surface when I walked the Camino, but since I took to the bicycle it's gone away. I think the strengthening of the knee muscles helps it. Knee pain varies, of course, but yours might be the same.

You wouldn't be pushing it much. I've done Burgos to Santiago a few times on a bike and only Casterojeriz and O Cebreiro required getting off and pushing. If the trail is rough or hilly, just use the road.

If you have 2 months then when you reach Santiago you could continue to Porto, or Ferrol. If you do just a stage a day you can still join a Camino family, which is a wonderful experience and your TV and movie career has I'm sure left you with many a tale to tell around the table at the end of the day.

You might hire a bike from Burgos to Leon and see how it goes, then if you enjoy it buy one from Decathlon in Leon. They sell very capable basic hybrids for 350 euro or so and with 2 months it's better than hiring for the whole time. You can sell it on Wallapop before you go home.

I hope you have a great Camino whatever you decide. ☘️
 
Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.
The same thing happened to me last year. I went to University Hospital in Burgos and got a cortisone injection in my knee. After a few days, I was able to walk (with poles) enough to sightsee, but not continue on the Camino. I then took the bus to Carrion for a few days, then on to Leon, then Santiago. I still had a couple of weeks, so I flew to Barcelona. I was able to see all the highlights (Gaudi creations) by riding the Hop On/Off buses. I then headed to Finisterre and my knee was healed enough that I walked to Muxia. Your interests may be totally different, but it’s easy to get around by bus and train with minimal Spanish.
 
Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.
Rest up till you definitely feel lot better don't try too soon ice and elevation best answer for knee funny enough I reach burgos on friday.if time is not the issue then just take time and enjoy the beautiful city of burgos.remember it's not crime to take buses between stages and it's dirt cheap way of transport over here look out for donativos albergue although not completely free they may give you accomodations for work in between just a suggestion as I know it has happened past.Buen Camino.by the way I'm staying at hostal el catedral in burgos because of it's Scottish connection.my name Charles.Rogerson.
 
Get a spanish phone number with Airalo. eSim, so no physical SIM card. Easy to use app to add more funds if needed.
If I were you……..
I would start planning my return later this year, next year, sometime soon. And as a step towards making that the best ever experience I would enrol in a Spanish course at the University of Santiago. Spend the mornings in classes and the afternoons watching the pilgrims arrive knowing that it will be your turn soon. Santiago is fab. Go an enjoy it!
 
Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.
What about renting an e-bike to slowly make your way to Leon? It may be a little pricy but an option to explore.
Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to g
Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.
Sorry for your injury and best wishes for a speedy recovery!

Have you explored the option of a e-bike rental? This option may have limitations on trails but could certainly help you out for short excursions around Burgos while you heal.

It seems there are several bike rental companies who deliver bikes to your hotel. Here is one: https://www.bikeiberia.com/camino/bike-rentals-camino/

Resting, praying, meditation and reading are also options!

Be well soon. 🌺🍀
 
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Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.
If I were you……..
I would start planning my return later this year, next year, sometime soon. And as a step towards making that the best ever experience I would enrol in a Spanish course at the University of Santiago. Spend the mornings in classes and the afternoons watching the pilgrims arrive knowing that it will be your turn soon. Santiago is fab. Go an enjoy it!
As someone who has cycled a Camino, the VDLP, I’m hesitant to suggest this alternative for continuing your Camino as the knee in integral in cycling. Best not to strain or injure it further until you know more specifically what is going on there.

However, I do like @MaxHelado suggestion of spending your time studying Spanish. In Mexico, most of the language schools for foreigners are private offering anywhere from 1 week to months depending on how long you want to stay. There are a number of wonderful cities in Spain where you could find Spanish instruction. I think a simple Google search will give you this information. As Max said above, study in the mornings, enjoy your afternoons in the cities including Santiago.
 
How about an art course like painting or ceramics, or a language course ~ Spanish?

At least consider trying what David suggests. He is one of our very cherished, long-time experienced members. He is famous for doing Caminos while toting a trailer of medical supplies to provide a rolling urgent care clinic.

You might find that you like it. It will help you move from being an introvert to an extrovert.

Helping people on my Caminos did that for me, more than a decade ago. Now, between “paying it forward” on Camino, and volunteering at the Pilgrim Office in Santiago, this is simply “what I do” and “who I am.”

I wish you well,

Tom
Absolutely! I am grateful to David and all of you. I have been picturing these ideas presented to me in my mind. I am really considering the the "mobile care" that would be a good fit for me. Thank you.
 
Rest up till you definitely feel lot better don't try too soon ice and elevation best answer for knee funny enough I reach burgos on friday.if time is not the issue then just take time and enjoy the beautiful city of burgos.remember it's not crime to take buses between stages and it's dirt cheap way of transport over here look out for donativos albergue although not completely free they may give you accomodations for work in between just a suggestion as I know it has happened past.Buen Camino.by the way I'm staying at hostal el catedral in burgos because of it's Scottish connection.my name Charles.Rogerson.
Lots of good advice here - especially get medical aid first. Good thing is no need to hurry btw now and July. If you are able to walk at all: slower pace, shorter distances, take local buses as needed, linger longer at sites/cafes. “Slowly, slowly” and you might still make it to Santiago and can reevaluate then. Blessings!
 
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Hello Maybe this suggestion will help.Do you know that from Burgos you are starting the flattest part of the whole Camino. Why not rest for the moment and then plod(slowly walk) to Leon and then rest and consider bus to Sarria see how you are and with positive thinking arrive Santiago.

@Valleygirlhikes
It’s so disappointing for you and yet I know other blessings will follow even this seemingly bad situation.
When I had a knee injury - not as bad as yours I think - I walked 20 mins and stopped for 10 mins, walked 5 km per day, then under 10 km per day till it healed a few days later. Unless you have something major, what about a week or so in Burgos with physio support to heal enough to very slowly go onward - with luggage transport - and possibly an occasional bus. Do you think you could walk the last 100 km by the time you get to Sarria.
The shock of being ‘stuck in Burgos’ also gives you the opportunity to be with yourself and do some inner work. There are possibly people there who do things like reiki and other health and well-being modalities. Ask at the largest albergue. I’m sure they will be able to help.
Blessings to you and Buen Camino
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
I have a knee injury that makes walking painful, but riding a bicycle not at all so. Burgos Bike Rental is at Calle del Carmen 2, bajo. 09001 BURGOS.
A few people have mentioned using a bicycle, would you mind telling me a bit more about the process? Do I keep my backpack with me or arrange luggage transfer? Can I ride with my poncho when it rains or would I need a raincoat? Do Albergues and hostels have a place for the bike for safe keeping? Thank you.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
My first Camino from Moissac in France, back in 2005, my old knee gave out at Logrono and I bought the cheapest clunker of a bike that Decathlon had .. had a back rack put on it, bungeed my pack to that and carried on - was extraordinary how I could cycle but not walk.

Some sections of Camino appeared (in the Brierley) to be too difficult/rough for me so I took the small roads instead to get round them - worked really well and I arrived in Santiago.

Buying a cheap bike is cheaper than renting ... and before the rainbow clothing sprayed serious cultist cyclists get involved - any bike will get you to Santiago. The cheapest clunker will be fine.

But - you need to try one first - your injury might not allow you to cycle, only way to find out is to road test a bike.

Buen Camino!
 
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There is a secondhand bike shop in Burgos - La Estacion de Bicicletas (the bike station), Calle Rey Don Pedro, 56 - they do up old bikes too - they might have something?

There is the Viking bike shop - VikingsBurgos, sales and repairs, has a nice address! C. Santiago Apóstol, 18.

Bike shops often have old bikes they have taken in and not done anything with .. who knows what may be in a back room, looking sad and dusty? Worth a mooch around?

Decathlon? you can get 18 speed MTBs there for under 250€ ... might seem a lot but if you have to stay in hotels to rest that knee then it is only, what, five nights hotel?
Is about 4kms south out of the centre so would need a bus (or taxi) - Ctra. Madrid-Irún, Km 231, 09001 Burgos
 
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Thank you David. You are a blessing. My knee is still the same. Looks like it my be another week or two before signs of improvement. That's OK, just means I have a couple more days to come up with a plan. Thank you for giving me more ideas to think over. Oh, and while living in San Antonio for awhile, I quickly caught on as to what Linda means in Spanish.
 
Currently I am in Burgos resting up from a knee injury. I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not. Touring by bus and volunteering are options I have been given but sadly I don't speak Spanish and I am kinda stuck. If there are ideas out there, I would love to hear them with steps on how to begin. My ticket home is in mid July. I have the time and at this point now nowhere to go.
Update: Doctors say there isn't any damage or swelling to my knee, just more ibuprofen and another week of rest. I feel more at ease now. Not sure I want to stay at this Hostel for another week.
 
Technical backpack for day trips with backpack cover and internal compartment for the hydration bladder. Ideal daypack for excursions where we need a medium capacity backpack. The back with Air Flow System creates large air channels that will keep our back as cool as possible.

€83,-
I have been reading your updates,and you really want to carry on. Firstly the next 3/4 days across north west Spain is not great.So what better time to go flat out and get that problem rested and healed as best. Still think you could slowly get to Leon.Then maybe hire the bike to Sarria and then walk to Santiago. Just another suggestion .
 
Thank you for your suggestion, they are so appreciated. Combining a bike and walking is definitely on the list. I am fortunate to be here where it will be flat will let me test my knees.
 
Thank you for your suggestion, they are so appreciated. Combining a bike and walking is definitely on the list. I am fortunate to be here where it will be flat will let me test my knees.
Sorry if I'd not make it clear.I meant the weather for the next few days looks wet.So maybe no better time to rest.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
I am not giving up the possibility of continuing on foot, but in the meantime I would like ideas of options in the event that I can not.
Many cities have bike rentals. I wonder whether some of them may have “electric assist.” But unless you find one (they do exist) that offers to retrieve it from you in Santiago, you’d have to return it by bus.

Or if you’re rich enough, buy one, and sell it at a loss when finished. :cool:

Either way, check the specs and make SURE the battery range is more than the distance between villages!!
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
First partial go-around on the Camino, 6 years ago, I messed up my back just before Rabanal del Camino, really bad. I was with two friends. We took a taxi to Tricastela, then walked the rest of the way to Santiago. Well, I walked as much as I could. Some days 2-4 miles, some days 8, never the whole way my friends did each day. Having had numerous knee replacements, I know knee pain.

My advice, take a taxi or bus, then walk what you can, then the taxi or bus again. You can go farther than you think. NEVER GIVE UP!
 
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First partial go-around on the Camino, 6 years ago, I messed up my back just before Rabanal del Camino, really bad. I was with two friends. We took a taxi to Tricastela, then walked the rest of the way to Santiago. Well, I walked as much as I could. Some days 2-4 miles, some days 8, never the whole way my friends did each day. Having had numerous knee replacements, I know knee pain.

My advice, take a taxi or bus, then walk what you can, then the taxi or bus again. You can go farther than you think. NEVER GIVE UP!
I second that. I gave up a Camino once and it still rankles. It's life, it's meant to hurt. Santiago or bust. It's the only way.
 
Wow! Thanks for sharing your story! Your encouragement came at the right time! Before bed I was telling my family that maybe it's time to come home. Sitting and laying around in this hostel watchihg pilgrims come and go is really difficult. I am in the "boxing ring" with my state of mind, and you came along at the right moment to encourage me not to throw in the towel. Thank you!
 
@Valleygirlhikes
It’s so disappointing for you and yet I know other blessings will follow even this seemingly bad situation.
When I had a knee injury - not as bad as yours I think - I walked 20 mins and stopped for 10 mins, walked 5 km per day, then under 10 km per day till it healed a few days later. Unless you have something major, what about a week or so in Burgos with physio support to heal enough to very slowly go onward - with luggage transport - and possibly an occasional bus. Do you think you could walk the last 100 km by the time you get to Sarria.
The shock of being ‘stuck in Burgos’ also gives you the opportunity to be with yourself and do some inner work. There are possibly people there who do things like reiki and other health and well-being modalities. Ask at the largest albergue. I’m sure they will be able to help.
Blessings to you and Buen Camino
What Rita Flower says is useful. I just finished the Portuguese Coastal (I'm still in Santiago). After a flare-up of plantar fasciitis, I ended up shipping my pack most of the way. I also taxied 2 full days and 2 half days (i was keeping up with my walking husband). In the end, the off days, plus short days, gave my foot enough rest to continue on. If your knee allows, just walk 5-10 km/day (or less!), and ship your pack.
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
What Rita Flower says is useful. I just finished the Portuguese Coastal (I'm still in Santiago). After a flare-up of plantar fasciitis, I ended up shipping my pack most of the way. I also taxied 2 full days and 2 half days (i was keeping up with my walking husband). In the end, the off days, plus short days, gave my foot enough rest to continue on. If your knee allows, just walk 5-10 km/day (or less!), and ship your pack.
Thank you. I think this the way.
 

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