For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
Hi, I would say don't take your dog to the Camino as already stated.All, I have a legitimate service dog who travels with me. Anyone know about the implications of taking a dog on this route?
Hi Keith, my dog is a service dog. He helps me with PTS and balance. He is a large dog, Lab, who is very highly trained and very well behaved. He is never off leash, except play time. I understand that Spain has recently (past couple years) become move attentive to service dogs and welcoming of them. We do hike the mountains in Colorado, so he is in pretty good shape. Thank you for the concern. Cheers!My first thought or question is do you depend on the dog for safety? I am asking for clarification so we understand your need for a service dog. I think most agree a pet is a bad idea. Also maybe someone from Spain who understands the law concerning a service dog my help with some of the concerns.
Keith
Diggs, where will you be flying from?
The long flight in the luggage hold is a concern...
Welcome to the Forum, @diggs. As others have said, the Camino is not an easy trek for a dog. I take it yours is a service dog and provides needed assistance to you. You didn't indicate how far you will have to travel to get to the Camino, or how long you expect to be on Camino. Is there some way you can manage your Camino without your dog - perhaps with the aid of a human friend? If you are being called to Camino, I do hope something can be worked out. Here's wishing you well ......![]()
Well it sounds like you have a good handle on his abilities the only concern I would have is places that would allow him. That is where Spanish law will effect your sleeping, eating. I figure if your from CO you will have a good take on livestock & somtimes you just have to rest in place a bit longer to get them fixed up. We all have our limits including the critters.Hi Keith, my dog is a service dog. He helps me with PTS and balance. He is a large dog, Lab, who is very highly trained and very well behaved. He is never off leash, except play time. I understand that Spain has recently (past couple years) become move attentive to service dogs and welcoming of them. We do hike the mountains in Colorado, so he is in pretty good shape. Thank you for the concern. Cheers!
I don't know a whole lot about service dogs but, from my limited observations, I get the feeling that there's been great progress made in accommodating persons who depend on these wonderful companions. Let's hope that Spain is keeping abreast with this progress. I wish you all the best. Would you tell us your dog's name?Hello Icacos, I will fly from Denver to Paris, stay a few days and then either train or fly to the French route. I can stay for up to 2 months, there is no hurry. I suppose I could leave him with my sister if I had to do so. I prefer to travel alone so the dog would be a preferred companion. Cheers!
Dogs so just fine travelling in the hold. The concern is making sure the airport employées don't forget to load them up. I never board before knowing my dog is on board.Diggs, where will you be flying from?
The long flight in the luggage hold is a concern...
I think that is true. The problem won't be your dog or your reception. It will be the occasional Spanish dog along the way.I understand that Spain has recently (past couple years) become move attentive to service dogs and welcoming of them.
I hope you are understanding of those people who don't appreciate having dogs near them, particularly in eating and sleeping areas, and make sure that you avoid distressing them unnecessarily.
Dogs so just fine travelling in the hold. The concern is making sure the airport employées don't forget to load them up. I never board before knowing my dog is on board.
Hello Icacos, my service dog is named Arthur. He is a black English Labrador Retriever. He will be 5 years old this Christmas Day. A very fine dog, indeed.I don't know a whole lot about service dogs but, from my limited observations, I get the feeling that there's been great progress made in accommodating persons who depend on these wonderful companions. Let's hope that Spain is keeping abreast with this progress. I wish you all the best. Would you tell us your dog's name?![]()
Hi Annie, Arthur being a service dog, rides at my feet when we fly.Dogs so just fine travelling in the hold. The concern is making sure the airport employées don't forget to load them up. I never board before knowing my dog is on board.
Good advice, thank you.I hope you are understanding of those people who don't appreciate having dogs near them, particularly in eating and sleeping areas, and make sure that you avoid distressing them unnecessarily.
Hello Anemone del Camino, Arthur, my dog, being a service dog travels in the airplane at my feet. Thank you for the concern! Cheers!Dogs so just fine travelling in the hold. The concern is making sure the airport employées don't forget to load them up. I never board before knowing my dog is on board.
Hi Anemone, he actually curls up and slides himself under the seat in front of me. He does stick out about half way, but there is plenty of room.Just where Arthur should be travelling. Out of Curiosity, How to you fit a 70 pound dog,under your feet in these horrible Seats?
Hi Diggs. Europeans view pets way different than Americans. I have never seen a service dog there. I'm sure there are some there but I have never seen one. My advice is to leave your service companion dog at home. I think you will have a harder time coping with the NO PETS rules than coping without your companion. Buen CaminoAll, I have a legitimate service dog who travels with me. Anyone know about the implications of taking a dog on this route?
I can just see my lot refusing to remain tucked under while they could stay on my lap!Hi Anemone, he actually curls up and slides himself under the seat in front of me. He does stick out about half way, but there is plenty of room.
Hello Urban,Hi Diggs. Europeans view pets way different than Americans. I have never seen a service dog there. I'm sure there are some there but I have never seen one. My advice is to leave your service companion dog at home. I think you will have a harder time coping with the NO PETS rules than coping without your companion. Buen Camino
Happy Trails
P.S. when and where r u starting your camino.
Avoid distressing who unnecessarily, Doug? The dogs or the people?
Seriously.....I am not really a 'dog' person, but I could not imagine ever being distressed by having a companion dog near me, ever. They are the most beautifully trained, and wonderful beings.
Hello UT, great list! THANKS FOR SHARING! Pretty much what I carried when I did Kilimanjaro back in August. Since I'm also doing the French route, this is very helpful. What time of year are you planning to travel? When you say 2 or 3 season bag, I'm assuming something like a 20 degree bag is what you are talking about? I've also seen a lot of folks talking about bedbugs! Yikes! Any problem with those you've experienced? Mosquitoes? Thank you! Cheers!My gear list. 2 pair REI synthetic zip off pants. 2 Columbia long sleeve synthetic shirts. 2 short or long sleeve synthetic tee shirts. 1 set light weight micro fleece long johns. 3 pair synthetic under shorts and 3 pair wool socks. 1 ultra light vest. 1 polyester fleece. 1 water proof windbreaker. Zip up poncho (the rain in Spain falls mostly in Galicia). Tille hat, fleece beanie, and sunglasses. I'm going to try a Sea to Summit Traveller zip up blanket (it compresses to the size of a grapefruit), otherwise a light weight 2 or 3 season sleeping bag and maybe a backpacker air mattress. Micro fleece towel, travel soap, toothpaste, toothbrush, shower shoes (Crocs), and pit stick, I'll shave when I get to Santiago. Personalized first aid kit and medication to last the camino. Power adapter (not a converter), charging cords, and electronics as needed. Swiss army knife and packers cutting board. Depending on which camino you walk, 2 water bottles or 1 to 2 liter bladder. In the past I have used a Osprey Talon 44. The problem is I try to fill it up. This year I'm going with a Camelback Pursuit 24. I'm going for less than 18 pounds. Clothing will depend on the time of year. Buen Camino
Happy Trails
Sorry about that, Robert. I know several people who are allergic to cats (and they have serious difficulty flying if there is a cat on board, in the cabin) but you are the first that I've heard of who is allergic to dogs. I can appreciate your difficulties too. How to accommodate everyone? That is a problem.I'm actually allergic to the majority of dogs. Being around them makes my throat constrict and my nose run. I sneeze and cough for a day or two after being around one. I for one do not appreciate people who think that there is absolutely no harm to dogs being around. I know I could not sleep in an albergue where a dog was staying. And that makes me sad because I like them.
Hello UT, great list! THANKS FOR SHARING! Pretty much what I carried when I did Kilimanjaro back in August. Since I'm also doing the French route, this is very helpful. What time of year are you planning to travel? When you say 2 or 3 season bag, I'm assuming something like a 20 degree bag is what you are talking about? I've also seen a lot of folks talking about bedbugs! Yikes! Any problem with those you've experienced? Mosquitoes? Thank you! Cheers!
Hello Meri, Arthur did not make the Kili trip with me, I was there three weeks, one out on the Serengeti, I was afraid he might become part of the food chain.Hi @diggs - a Labradear Retriever, a delightful breed. Did you take him to Africa/Kilimanjaro? As a dog obedience & tracking trainer, I would second @Kanga's advice regarding planning ahead and preparing the Way. Would any of the Friends of Camino groups along the Way be able to assist with information? Definitely pack canine medical supplies and see what veterinary services are available. I always plan for the worst and then expect the best. We met several dogs walking the Camino with their owners out of St Jean Pied de Port. Most of the dogs had some soreness or problem with their paws. Given that you already hike with Arthur, I assume that he is well conditioned but I would recommend, if you aren't already across them, checking out some dog boots, just in case. I've used some for my two on endurance runs (I've always had golden retrievers but currently dogless) as well as for 3 week horse drawn caravan holidays.
Is Arthur OK coping with a hot climate? Being black he may be more susceptible to sunstroke on hotter days. Something to consider.
We all have opinions here but only you can know yourself and how important your service dog is to your Camino. Weigh up the advice and concerns offered and make your own decision. I'm sure that Arthur knows how to handle himself with any aggressive canines. That would be my main concern.
PS we met this little chap in Granon - he crossed the Pyrenees with his master but, being small, was also carried some of the Way.
View attachment 22007
What is your start date? Looks like you have a lot of experience and know when to miss the crowds?Hi Diggs,
I'm going to be starting in SJPP in May also, so I'll watch for you - doggie or not.
Buen Camino, whatever you decide,
Annie
Diggs
I am assuming you will feed him what you find along the way, as packing dog food will just be too heavy. So your food bill will be interesting as well. One thing you can always count on is ham. The stores seem to be well stocked, but in the smaller communities the bars will have all the bocadillos you both can eat.
I got to thinking about my own dog, as I have to limit the days I go into the back country with her as she packs her own food. For 2 days, any longer I am her mule.
DiggsHello Meri, Arthur did not make the Kili trip with me, I was there three weeks, one out on the Serengeti, I was afraid he might become part of the food chain.
The heat is an issue I am weighing, he tends to get hot when the temps are over 75 degrees F. He has Ruffwear boots which we have just started using. We will be doing a lot of snowshoeing this season and will give them a try in the snow and on pavement/rock trails.
Thanks for the input!
Cheers!
Your a better man than I something to consider if you try to book ahead (ask the host of were you are staying) they have a very good system in place to send packages forward every day. Might be worth sending the heavy food forward. I never tried it but many on the forum have. If you mess up on forwarding it to far the dog gets to feast on human food.Hello MT, I'm thinking I will being with ten pounds of dog food and restock as necessary. Ten pounds should last at least 7 days. My packs usually range in the 35 - 60 pound arena when I travel. Of course the high end is not always desirable. The ham is a great idea. He is a Lab and will eat anything, but does enjoy a ham bone once in a while.
Cheers!
What is your start date? Looks like you have a lot of experience and know when to miss the crowds?
I saw plenty of dogs on the Camino this year, plenty.
Oh dear - another good pilgrim test that I will fail - going up and stroking every dog I see on the Camino. I really don't think so, @David.Good pilgrims went up and stroked them
Oh dear - another good pilgrim test that I will fail - going up and stroking every dog I see on the Camino. I really don't think so, @David.
I'm more than happy that others know that I won't pass as a 'good', 'pure' or 'true' pilgrim based on many of the tests that others have proposed here.Oh dear. Doug, dear Doug, do you still not realise that what we say reveals what we are? Bless you Doug xxx
We all breath the same air, we just have to respect what the other persons perspective is. We still do things are own way.I'm more than happy that others know that I won't pass as a 'good', 'pure' or 'true' pilgrim based on many of the tests that others have proposed here.
LOL!
I have walk the long English (Ferrol to Santiago ) and short Portuguese (Porto to Santiago). Did the first April/May and the second September /October. I used a light weight but still heavy and bulky 2 season bag and carried a fleece liner. No issues with the cold, like you I live in cold country. My next camino is the a French route next April and May. I'm just taking a Sea to Summit travelers blanket (it zips up and has draw strings at foot and head). Weighs 1 pound and compresses to the size of a grapefruit.Hello UT, great list! THANKS FOR SHARING! Pretty much what I carried when I did Kilimanjaro back in August. Since I'm also doing the French route, this is very helpful. What time of year are you planning to travel? When you say 2 or 3 season bag, I'm assuming something like a 20 degree bag is what you are talking about? I've also seen a lot of folks talking about bedbugs! Yikes! Any problem with those you've experienced? Mosquitoes? Thank you! Cheers!
Hello Meri, Arthur did not make the Kili trip with me, I was there three weeks, one out on the Serengeti, I was afraid he might become part of the food chain.
The heat is an issue I am weighing, he tends to get hot when the temps are over 75 degrees F. He has Ruffwear boots which we have just started using. We will be doing a lot of snowshoeing this season and will give them a try in the snow and on pavement/rock trails.
Thanks for the input!
Cheers!
Good to know that you're across the Ruffwear boots everyone that has them say that the dogs love them. There is a website that you are probably aware of - Assistance Dogs International - that has a listing for Spain with contact emails. This may of use to your planning.
Out of interest, which route did you take up Kili? We dawdled for 9 days along the Lemosho Route which was fabulous because it was so isolated until we joined up with the others at the Barranco Wall. It's such an amazing place - that final walk to the summit just blew me away. I didn't realise that the Snows of Kilimanjaro were actually glaciers. We went to the edge of the volcano and there was the smell of sulphur. Had to scree ski down from the summit to beat a storm. Next day we flew back to Nairobi and saw the summit from our seats.
I have walk the long English (Ferrol to Santiago ) and short Portuguese (Porto to Santiago). Did the first April/May and the second September /October. I used a light weight but still heavy and bulky 2 season bag and carried a fleece liner. No issues with the cold, like you I live in cold country. My next camino is the a French route next April and May. I'm just taking a Sea to Summit travelers blanket (it zips up and has draw strings at foot and head). Weighs 1 pound and compresses to the size of a grapefruit.
Bed bugs, I have never had a problem with them but then I have walked the caminos less traveled. It's my understanding that they are a issue on the French routes but then they're a problem in the 4 star hotels in San Francisco. Buen Camino
Happy Trails
Hi Meri,
Thanks for the encouragement regarding taking my dog with me. It is still up in the air on my end. I do worry about the heat, not the actually distance.
Regarding Kili, we took the Machame Route, AKA, Whiskey Route. 5 1/2 days up, 1 1/2 down. On summit morning, we left our camp at Kosovo (16,500) at 4 AM and summited at 10:00 AM. Very cold until the sun popped up, as you know. I loved being able to see the curvature of the earth!
I was surprised with the number of teams around us. We had 24 in our group, 20 made it. We saw a lot of people having to come down. One German team completely collapsed and some came down on stretchers, others were being assisted. They had rudely passed us on the second day in a hurry, came down on the third, just before Barranco Wall.
Coming down was the worst part of the whole experience for me. Knees were on fire.
After the climb we took small planes and flew out to the Serengeti for five days of safari. I then took 9 days on Zanzibar. Got some diving in and hung out on the beach.
My Camino is still up in the air. I am in the basic planning stages now. I am thinking May, French route, start at SJPP. Do it all in one trip. I have plenty of time.
Cheers!
Hello UT, great list! THANKS FOR SHARING! Pretty much what I carried when I did Kilimanjaro back in August. Since I'm also doing the French route, this is very helpful. What time of year are you planning to travel? When you say 2 or 3 season bag, I'm assuming something like a 20 degree bag is what you are talking about? I've also seen a lot of folks talking about bedbugs! Yikes! Any problem with those you've experienced? Mosquitoes? Thank you! Cheers!
I see that there are two organisations - Assistance Dogs Europe and the European Guide Dog Federation - who are lobbying in Brussels for a Europe wide law to ensure that assistance dogs have full access to all public places throughout Europe but it seems that they haven't got very far yet with their lobby work and I take it that you would not support their campaign?
... and after this excursion into the wider world back to Spain and the Camino now!
I have now added a "" to my message, David. My line of thought was that you can't be in favour of lobbying in Brussels - the lobbyists' capital of the world - for EU laws and be against EU laws made by Brussels at the same time
. And now really back to Spain and the camino!
Please.....
No further political remarks!
You & I both own dogs, how we feed them is our individual process. I am sure Diggs has his own requirements figured out.What amased me in all this conversation is so many people who do not own service dogs advised someone who clearly has for many years dealt and worked with such a dog. Suggestions of buying "dog food" in supermarkets? Fear of How,they will do in the hold? These are highly trained,dogs, and so are their owners. And BTW, many dogs cannot Cope with a Quick change in diet, so What the super market sells when it come to "dog food" is not useful, amd ham.... Highly processus and salty, can't imagine that will help,with thirst and Hydration. Lots of ras meet and fish available in the larger towns, so perhaps typical Brierly shops would be best.,
Didn't I just say he didn't need people who know zip about dog Tell him What to do?You & I both own dogs, how we feed them is our individual process. I am sure Diggs has his own requirements figured out.
I know if I give my dog something that doesn't sit well my reward is flatulance. So I trust Diggs has this figured out.
Yes You did, the ham was my idea, but I feed my dog the same stuff I eat. Including sharing ice cream from my spoon. So I got a little need to clarify.Didn't I just say he didn't need people who know zip about dog Tell him What to do?
What amased me in all this conversation is so many people who do not own service dogs advised someone who clearly has for many years dealt and worked with such a dog. Suggestions of buying "dog food" in supermarkets? Fear of How,they will do in the hold? These are highly trained,dogs, and so are their owners. And BTW, many dogs cannot Cope with a Quick change in diet, so What the super market sells when it come to "dog food" is not useful, amd ham.... Highly processus and salty, can't imagine that will help,with thirst and Hydration. Lots of ras meet and fish available in the larger towns, so perhaps typical Brierly shops would be best.,
You are a good and patient man.Hello Anemone, thank you for sharing your thoughts. What I read here are thoughts from people who wish to express their concerns regarding the health of my dog and for that I am thankful. Any suggestions to better this trip are welcomed, as are yours! Cheers!
kathar1na!
Why on earth would you think that?
Why would you decide to believe that I would be against helping those who are disabled?
What on earth has been the process in your mind that has brought you to even imagine that I would be such a person?
Katherina, you have saddened me that you could even think that, let alone share your thought in public.![]()
Hello Diggs, it sounds as though you and Arthur would be good ambassadors for the service animal community. I, for one, would love to see more four-footed friends along the path. Since Arthur is a service dog, his presence on the camino is really not an option for you, rather like a walking stick -- if you absolutely need one, this is not a whim.
Since you are in the planning phases of your camino, perhaps now is a good time to do some research for plane and train regulations, and albergues and other places to stay overnight along the Camino Frances. I think with a lot of foresight and planning you and Arthur should be able to walk and complete the camino. Maybe Arthur can earn his own compostella?
Hopefully, you and Arthur can pave the way for others to walk the camino with their service animals and not have to give up their dream.
I wish you both blessings.
p.s., If you do end up walking with Arthur, you MUST post pictures!
I suggest, if it has not already been mentioned above:
1. Some airlines do not accept pets in the cargo hold during certain months of the year or at all, out of concern for the dog's health. I am aware that some service animals are permitted under US Federal regulations to fly in the cabin. European laws and regulations may differ. Check this out. Please do not rely on anecdotal information no matter how well-intended
2. Check out the EU web sites (available in English), as well as the French Embassy, and Spanish Embassy web sites in Washington, DC to find a link discussing importation of pets and specifically dogs. Also, check the EU, French and Spanish embassy sites for links discussing service animals. You can use Google Translate to convert French and Spanish to English easily.
3. I strongly recommend that your dog have an internationally compliant microchip installed. We had our cats chipped on moving to Belgium some years ago. If you have an e-mail or cellular number that someone in Europe can message or call you to state they found your dog, update the registry service to reflect this information.
3. Make sure your dog wears a tag that specifies he/she is a service animal. The tag should also state in CAPITAL LETTERS "Microchip." I recommend on the reverse of the side with the "Service dog - NAME." If the tag is large enough, your cellular / mobile phone number should be included.
4. Carry a printed statement, in English, French, and Spanish that states that the dog is a service animal for someone suffering from emotional conditions and that the dog is a critical component of the owner's successful treatment. As a formal / official service animal, this dog is permitted in all places of accommodation and eating.
I hope this helps.
Avoid distressing who unnecessarily, Doug? The dogs or the people?
Seriously.....I am not really a 'dog' person, but I could not imagine ever being distressed by having a companion dog near me, ever. They are the most beautifully trained, and wonderful beings.
I'm also trying some light and heavy bike rider sleeves.My gear list. 2 pair REI synthetic zip off pants. 2 Columbia long sleeve synthetic shirts. 2 short or long sleeve synthetic tee shirts. 1 set light weight micro fleece long johns. 3 pair synthetic under shorts and 3 pair wool socks. 1 ultra light vest. 1 polyester fleece. 1 water proof windbreaker. Zip up poncho (the rain in Spain falls mostly in Galicia). Tille hat, fleece beanie, and sunglasses. I'm going to try a Sea to Summit Traveller zip up blanket (it compresses to the size of a grapefruit), otherwise a light weight 2 or 3 season sleeping bag and maybe a backpacker air mattress. Micro fleece towel, travel soap, toothpaste, toothbrush, shower shoes (Crocs), and pit stick, I'll shave when I get to Santiago. Personalized first aid kit and medication to last the camino. Power adapter (not a converter), charging cords, and electronics as needed. Swiss army knife and packers cutting board. Depending on which camino you walk, 2 water bottles or 1 to 2 liter bladder. In the past I have used a Osprey Talon 44. The problem is I try to fill it up. This year I'm going with a Camelback Pursuit 24. I'm going for less than 18 pounds. Clothing will depend on the time of year. Buen Camino
Happy Trails
GREAT SUGGESTIONS, TOM!
All, I have a legitimate service dog who travels with me. Anyone know about the implications of taking a dog on this route?
Hi there- The American Pilgrims on the Camino website (americaniplgrims.com, FAQs page) offers this concerning certified service dogs:
You are afforded wide privileges with the airlines and in Europe while traveling with a certified service dog (not a self-certified emotional support dog). In short, in Spain by law guide dogs must be accepted everywhere. Hospitaleros have no choice in whether or not to admit such a service animal. Several sources of information on regulations and requirements are:
- Mobility International USA (http://www.miusa.org)
Air travel with your guide dog or service animal (http://www.miusa.org/resource/tipsheet/flightswithanimals)- Asociación Española de Perros de Asistencia de Madrid (Spanish) (http://www.aepa-madrid.org)
- The Embassy of Spain, Washington DC (Spanish and English) (http://www.spainemb.org)
- Assistance Dogs Europe (http://assistancedogseurope.org)
Access and laws in Spain (http://www.assistancedogsinternatio...s/by-region/europe-adeu/legislation-in-spain/)
David - I agree with your first sentence in your post, and I LOVE the video! I can imagine quite a number of albergues would welcome these two lovely doggins!I still think negatives aren't valid unless they are from a dog owner who has gone on Camino with their dog, but that is just me.
But!! - Here is proof that service dogs aren't always excluded but actually welcomed in some refugios. I took this video (no I didn't) at a refugio where a service dog and the refugio dog shared a pilgrim meal. Ok, you can hear the human pilgrims eating in another room, but these two seemed quite content to have their own table and they seemed very well-behaved - I can't see what all the fuss is about!
View attachment 22096 This is how a Devon dog goes on pilgrimage....!
I'll be leaving SJPP around May 10 with my group.
We'll walk up to Orisson, then taxi back down to SJPP.
Next morning, we'll taxi up and walk over the hill.
So I'll be there May 10 and May 11.
We will be staying at Gite Compostelle if you'd like to connect.
To miss the crowds, I'd suggest you start midweek and walk "in between" the Brierley or other guide stages.
If you find yourself in a wave of pilgrims, just hang back a bit or stop earlier to let them pass.
No, it's very possible to make it up and down in one day. I would think that very few people have thought about this taking bit back and forth, I learned about it here. But it's a great idea in my opinion, if you really think you cannot make it up in one days. It's not easy, but short and round me made it by 4pm, walking in the rain, a total of 9 Hours. Every step of the way I kept thinking I would never make it. If most people did it there would be a terribl bottle neck in SJPP.Hello Annie,
Question... Looking at your first day.
So, is walking up and taxiing back down then taxiing up to walk over the hill, a standard procedure? Is it because the length of time to reach the summit makes hitting the next town impossible?
No, it's very possible to make it up and down in one day. I would think that very few people have thought about this taking bit back and forth, I learned about it here. But it's a great idea in my opinion, if you really think you cannot make it up in one days. It's not easy, but short and round me made it by 4pm, walking in the rain, a total of 9 Hours. Every step of the way I kept thinking I would never make it. If most people did it there would be a terribl bottle neck in SJPP.
You got the jist of it! Yes, a tough first day.It sounds like the way you do it, you get a head start on the folks who will be competing for space in the next town, plus your team won't be beat to pieces to start the journey. Nine hours for the first leg. Yikes!