Some questions & observations

[cabezon]

I've known about the Camino pilgrimage for a few years now & as I find out more I notice things & could never really figure them out or get decent answers for.

1. Is it me or do people massively overplay the whole spiritual thing? People who have done the Camino say it changed their life (& so on, in varying degrees of over-the-top-ness) & I suppose others want to have the same experience so they think just by doing the Camino they will, as if it's necessary to make the rip to Santiago. It risks raising other people's expectations too much doesn't it?

2. Assuming asking why someone wants to do the Camino isn't just for the sake of making conversation (like talking about the weather), why is it so important to have a reason for walking the Camino? Related to #1 just because one person got something out of it, why should someone else get the same thing? It's usually made out to be this momentous event. I would think the best thing would be to go with no expectations or prejudices & you get what you get. Asking why someone wants to do it misses the point completely I think. What someone has gotten out of it by the end, if anything, seems much more important. It's like Forrest Gump said when a reporter pressed him to find out why he was running across the US: "I just felt like running!!"

3. Sometimes it seems like people talk about the Camino as if it's unique in some way, as if it's the only pilgrimage route that has ever existed, and that someone couldn't have a similar experience by biking across Canada or something. Even in the Christian world Rome & Jerusalem are just as important as pilgrimage sites. I even made up a word for that: "Camino-centrism." Are Muslims who do the Hajj pilgrims too, because websites like http://www.americanpilgrims.com/ or http://www.santiago.ca/ seem to exclude all pilgrims except the ones who walk the Camino & based on the reverence some people have for this walk it doesn't seem like an accident.

4. Hasn't anyone interested in walking the Camino read Blood Meridian!? I would think blisters on those guys' feet or possibly having to skip their morning coffee that they "can't" live without were the least of their worries. Or that they had to share a room with someone who snored. The guys in that book trekking across the Mexico & Texas desert in the 1800s would run out of food & have to slaughter one of their horses for example. Same sort of thing in Seven Pillars of Wisdom. There was one part where Lawrence was out of it with dysentery for a week & a half, they also would run out of food & have to slaughter one of their camels, one time they got to a watering hole & discovered that the Turks left the body of a dead camel in there for them. Now that's adventure. At least on the Camino you know when you're done.

 

[C clearly]

Nice name, cabezon. Somehow, it suits you!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

3. Sometimes it seems like people talk about the Camino as if it's unique in some way, as if it's the only pilgrimage route that has ever existed, and that someone couldn't have a similar experience by biking across Canada or something.

There were 272,412 pilgrims in the last Holy Year who received compostelas. I have not seen numbers for Canadian bikers, but I suspect they are smaller. No, the two would not be similar experiences. The pilgrimage to Mecca does not welcome non-Muslims. Everyone is welcome on the various caminos in France and Spain (and Italy I suspect).

It is a little hard to tell from your post if you are seeking information or just flaming those who walk the caminos. Can you clarify if you seek controversy for controversy's sake, or if Forum members can help you with something specific?

 

[MendiWalker]

I've known about the Camino pilgrimage for a few years now & as I find out more I notice things & could never really figure them out or get decent answers for.

1. Is it me or do people massively overplay the whole spiritual thing? People who have done the Camino say it changed their life (& so on, in varying degrees of over-the-top-ness) & I suppose others want to have the same experience so they think just by doing the Camino they will, as if it's necessary to make the rip to Santiago. It risks raising other people's expectations too much doesn't it?

2. Assuming asking why someone wants to do the Camino isn't just for the sake of making conversation (like talking about the weather), why is it so important to have a reason for walking the Camino? Related to #1 just because one person got something out of it, why should someone else get the same thing? It's usually made out to be this momentous event. I would think the best thing would be to go with no expectations or prejudices & you get what you get. Asking why someone wants to do it misses the point completely I think. What someone has gotten out of it by the end, if anything, seems much more important. It's like Forrest Gump said when a reporter pressed him to find out why he was running across the US: "I just felt like running!!"

3. Sometimes it seems like people talk about the Camino as if it's unique in some way, as if it's the only pilgrimage route that has ever existed, and that someone couldn't have a similar experience by biking across Canada or something. Even in the Christian world Rome & Jerusalem are just as important as pilgrimage sites. I even made up a word for that: "Camino-centrism." Are Muslims who do the Hajj pilgrims too, because websites like http://www.americanpilgrims.com/ or http://www.santiago.ca/ seem to exclude all pilgrims except the ones who walk the Camino & based on the reverence some people have for this walk it doesn't seem like an accident.

4. Hasn't anyone interested in walking the Camino read Blood Meridian!? I would think blisters on those guys' feet or possibly having to skip their morning coffee that they "can't" live without were the least of their worries. Or that they had to share a room with someone who snored. The guys in that book trekking across the Mexico & Texas desert in the 1800s would run out of food & have to slaughter one of their horses for example. Same sort of thing in Seven Pillars of Wisdom. There was one part where Lawrence was out of it with dysentery for a week & a half, they also would run out of food & have to slaughter one of their camels, one time they got to a watering hole & discovered that the Turks left the body of a dead camel in there for them. Now that's adventure. At least on the Camino you know when you're done.

........ and your point is?

Ondo Ibili !

 

[Jabaldo]

I've known about the Camino pilgrimage for a few years now & as I find out more I notice things & could never really figure them out or get decent answers for.

1. Is it me or do people massively overplay the whole spiritual thing? People who have done the Camino say it changed their life (& so on, in varying degrees of over-the-top-ness) & I suppose others want to have the same experience so they think just by doing the Camino they will, as if it's necessary to make the rip to Santiago. It risks raising other people's expectations too much doesn't it?

2. Assuming asking why someone wants to do the Camino isn't just for the sake of making conversation (like talking about the weather), why is it so important to have a reason for walking the Camino? Related to #1 just because one person got something out of it, why should someone else get the same thing? It's usually made out to be this momentous event. I would think the best thing would be to go with no expectations or prejudices & you get what you get. Asking why someone wants to do it misses the point completely I think. What someone has gotten out of it by the end, if anything, seems much more important. It's like Forrest Gump said when a reporter pressed him to find out why he was running across the US: "I just felt like running!!"

3. Sometimes it seems like people talk about the Camino as if it's unique in some way, as if it's the only pilgrimage route that has ever existed, and that someone couldn't have a similar experience by biking across Canada or something. Even in the Christian world Rome & Jerusalem are just as important as pilgrimage sites. I even made up a word for that: "Camino-centrism." Are Muslims who do the Hajj pilgrims too, because websites like http://www.americanpilgrims.com/ or http://www.santiago.ca/ seem to exclude all pilgrims except the ones who walk the Camino & based on the reverence some people have for this walk it doesn't seem like an accident.

4. Hasn't anyone interested in walking the Camino read Blood Meridian!? I would think blisters on those guys' feet or possibly having to skip their morning coffee that they "can't" live without were the least of their worries. Or that they had to share a room with someone who snored. The guys in that book trekking across the Mexico & Texas desert in the 1800s would run out of food & have to slaughter one of their horses for example. Same sort of thing in Seven Pillars of Wisdom. There was one part where Lawrence was out of it with dysentery for a week & a half, they also would run out of food & have to slaughter one of their camels, one time they got to a watering hole & discovered that the Turks left the body of a dead camel in there for them. Now that's adventure. At least on the Camino you know when you're done.

Not every one does the Camino for spiritual reasons. My wife and I will be doing the Camino our first for the fact we like to walk and it is there. Like climbing a mountain why, my answer is because it is there. You seem to be very critical about the Camino why? If it is in your path then you just do it, if it is in your way go around. Raining on someone parade is not healthy. Supporting others is life changing. Have you ever supported anyone?
Bless you and may you see the light as it is intended to be seen.

 

[Deacon Harbey Santiago]

I would think the best thing would be to go with no expectations or prejudices & you get what you get.

I guess you could also apply this advice to writing posts in forums.

"Viva Cristo Rey!!"
Camino bound, Sept 2014!
Deacon Harbey Santiago

 

[cabezon]

Nice name, cabezon. Somehow, it suits you!

I was trying to think of a handle & came up with Antonio de Cabezon who was a blind organist & composer during the Renaissance who was born near Burgos.

There were 272,412 pilgrims in the last Holy Year who received compostelas. I have not seen numbers for Canadian bikers, but I suspect they are smaller. No, the two would not be similar experiences. The pilgrimage to Mecca does not welcome non-Muslims. Everyone is welcome on the various caminos in France and Spain (and Italy I suspect).

That number doesn't prove anything. Only 658 people climbed to the summit of Mt Everest in 2013. That can easily be explained by the fact that climbing Mt Everest is much more difficult. There are trails in Canada where you have to watch out for cougars & bears and they're so isolated if you get attacked you're pretty much as good as dead, as if the hike itself isn't difficult enough without them. What I was referring to was the spiritual/life-changing aspect. In Lost in Translation Charlotte didn't mean for her trip to Tokyo to change her life, she was only tagging along after her photographer husband. She didn't go to Spain & she didn't really have any intent to go on a journey of self discovery or whatever. It just happened spontaneously & it seems that it can happen anywhere. A lot of indigenous peoples in Canada & the US have something called a vision quest & I think it's uh... very unlikely that they walked to Santiago. It seems incredibly obvious that the Camino isn't unique in that respect but a lot of what I've read about the Camino makes it seem like it is. Maybe I'm just reading too many new agey travel diaries. Of course I'm open to the whole spiritual thing I just don't see the necessity in going to Spain & doing all that walking there. Philosophers & scientists have walked & thought about things at least since ancient Greek times, they even buildings called stoas built partly for that purpose. As far as the 'life purpose' thing I know of at least two people who biked across Canada for that reason. One of them had just split up with his wife. Doesn't that sound familiar?

Not every one does the Camino for spiritual reasons. My wife and I will be doing the Camino our first for the fact we like to walk and it is there. Like climbing a mountain why, my answer is because it is there. You seem to be very critical about the Camino why? If it is in your path then you just do it, if it is in your way go around. Raining on someone parade is not healthy. Supporting others is life changing. Have you ever supported anyone?
Bless you and may you see the light as it is intended to be seen.

I guess I should have said at the beginning that I first heard of the Camino about 10 years ago but my interest has actually picked up since then, especially since seeing that Walking the Camino documentary that came out recently. I doubt that I'd do the whole French Route though, what looks more interesting is the Tunnel Route to Santo Domingo, French Route to Leon, the Camino del Salvador, Camino Primitivo. & probably Finisterre also. I didn't mean to sound like a downer, it's just those are the only questions I have. I've seen enough lists of things to take in a pack and physically I'm about as prepared as anyone could be.

Now that some people have responded I have a 5th question: Why did you think I was flaming? Why interpret my questions as raining on your parade? If you're so sure that the Camino is so awesome why would someone's questions bother you so much? I guess you could call it my outsider's perspective. Someone I know laughed out loud when I said I wanted to go to Singapore or Brazil sometime & it didn't bother me at all.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Of course I'm open to the whole spiritual thing I just don't see the necessity in going to Spain & doing all that walking there.

Your point is well stated, and you should stay home.

it didn't bother me at all

Your interpretation is mistaken if you think I am bothered.

I am going with controversy just for sake of controversy, by the way.

 

[StuartM]

I've known about the Camino pilgrimage for a few years now & as I find out more I notice things & could never really figure them out or get decent answers for.

1. Is it me or do people massively overplay the whole spiritual thing? People who have done the Camino say it changed their life (& so on, in varying degrees of over-the-top-ness) & I suppose others want to have the same experience so they think just by doing the Camino they will, as if it's necessary to make the rip to Santiago. It risks raising other people's expectations too much doesn't it?

2. Assuming asking why someone wants to do the Camino isn't just for the sake of making conversation (like talking about the weather), why is it so important to have a reason for walking the Camino? Related to #1 just because one person got something out of it, why should someone else get the same thing? It's usually made out to be this momentous event. I would think the best thing would be to go with no expectations or prejudices & you get what you get. Asking why someone wants to do it misses the point completely I think. What someone has gotten out of it by the end, if anything, seems much more important. It's like Forrest Gump said when a reporter pressed him to find out why he was running across the US: "I just felt like running!!"

3. Sometimes it seems like people talk about the Camino as if it's unique in some way, as if it's the only pilgrimage route that has ever existed, and that someone couldn't have a similar experience by biking across Canada or something. Even in the Christian world Rome & Jerusalem are just as important as pilgrimage sites. I even made up a word for that: "Camino-centrism." Are Muslims who do the Hajj pilgrims too, because websites like http://www.americanpilgrims.com/ or http://www.santiago.ca/ seem to exclude all pilgrims except the ones who walk the Camino & based on the reverence some people have for this walk it doesn't seem like an accident.

4. Hasn't anyone interested in walking the Camino read Blood Meridian!? I would think blisters on those guys' feet or possibly having to skip their morning coffee that they "can't" live without were the least of their worries. Or that they had to share a room with someone who snored. The guys in that book trekking across the Mexico & Texas desert in the 1800s would run out of food & have to slaughter one of their horses for example. Same sort of thing in Seven Pillars of Wisdom. There was one part where Lawrence was out of it with dysentery for a week & a half, they also would run out of food & have to slaughter one of their camels, one time they got to a watering hole & discovered that the Turks left the body of a dead camel in there for them. Now that's adventure. At least on the Camino you know when you're done.

1. The Camino changed my life, no doubt about it. Whether spending the time doing something else would have had the same effect is unknown. Was it a specific effect of the Camino per se? Again, who knows. I never went with any expectation, I went because the alternative was a couple of weeks of self-destructive behaviour that I got persuaded was a bad idea. I have no doubt I would be dead had I not gone to Spain instead. It's a long story but I went on the Camino with 24hrs notice and pretty much the clothes I stood up in, it wasnt a long standing plan or ambition. It was (excuse the French, there is no easier way to put it) a "f*** it" moment.

Expectations are the responsibility of the person doing the walking today, not the ones that have done it and told the tale.

2. I think having a reason to walk is important. I know people think different but certainly, to me, the Camino Frances is not one of the world's great treks if you take it purely in physical terms. It's not that scenic, you're rarely in the wild, it isnt that challenging, it's full of people. You dont walk the Frances because you gasp "wow!" every few minutes. It's a much more "internal" journey.

3. I think the Camino is unique. The Haj, for example, isnt a good comparison. Nobody does the Haj for fun, try even getting into Saudi Arabia. I know people who have done the Haj and there are similarities in the communal living and humility aspects but it is also highly organised and structured too. I doubt you can do the Haj by pitching up, making your own way and taking an undefined time or route from people I've spoken to. It also sounds incredibly commercialised though I'm basing that on just a few accounts.

There cannot be many pilgrimage routes that has the features of the Frances. I've not come across any comparable trekking routes.

The real "magic" of the Camino is the slow westward drip of random people that you encounter. There is the whole cross section of life from loveable oddballs to irritating boors and you're free to encounter as few or as many as you like.

4. I havent read Blood Meridian but McCarthy reuses the blister theme in No Country For Old Men which is a very "pilgrimagey" story itself.

There is a lot of doubt over the veracity of Lawrence's book. He was writing as much a sales brochure for himself and his war as he was a piece of history.

Anyway, I take your point. Suffering changes when you make it relative rather than absolute. But human nature is such that in the right circumstances, the fear of a hostel being full will release the same chemicals and kick off the same anxiety reflexes (or worse) as a starving adventurer crossing a war torn territory finding himself another day without food will experience. We've got 50,000 year old brains in modern lives, we react the same way to getting caught out in a storm with miles to go to having a tiger chase you.

What the event is and how it makes you feel are not always comparable or reasonable. How many people do you see screaming at their spouses in the supermarket because they're out of milk?

I'm not defending it, the vast majority of crises that happen on something like the Camino fall into the category of inconvenience rather than life threatening. But human nature is what it is.

 

[Eileen W]

I don't quite understand why you're questioning the veracity of people who belong to a forum which is specifically about the Camino, for people who've either walked, preparing to walk or wanting to find out about walking the Camino. We are enthusiastic about the subject, which is why we are here, therefore those who have had life-changing experiences are bound to want to share their experiences. You could go onto any forum about anything and ask similar questions about their claims of what their activity can do for them. If it wasn't life-changing for many who've walked the Camino, then they wouldn't say it was now, and why would they. Hell, I've even had a life-changing experience by just reading the blogs and watching the videos, and I haven't even been on the Camino yet, lol.

I think the only way you're going to find out is to do the walk yourself. If you don't get anything other than a good walk, then at least you've had a good walk, and if you get anything else out of it then you'll know for yourself what all the fuss is about.

 

[ivar]

Will lock this conversation. If the original poster is interested in getting help planning his camino, this forum is the best place to do so. "Where past pilgrims share, and new pilgrims learn".