Taken for Grantedness.

[musicman]

Reding daily posts on the forum,m constantly struck by requests for advice , etc; that assume the Frances is THE Caminho.....This is the result of several factors, I m sure, and I am not mentioning this to be critical of the enquirers;there needs to be some consciousness raising here.

The range and variety of Caminhos provides ( in my opinion ) some far better, more peaceful and less overran routes to S de C and in the case of the Via de la Plata, for example a much older route.

And, as so many pilgrims, not all, seem to want to walk in the Summer when the Frances can be so crowded, cyclists and in the latter stages Spanish kids doing a 100 KM for their CVs, with so many alternatives, it seems a pity that more authentic experience could be missed.
PS not recommending the Via de la Plata in high summer!

To make somewhat different analogy, just as the English Soccer Premier League is not just about Manchester United - Southampton and Newcastle provided excellent venues and entertaining Soccer - the " Caminho" is not just about the Frances.

 

[hecate105]

Hear Hear! and sometimes can be found in the most unexpected places. I have found brass scallop-shells showing the route in several Belgian towns, yellow arrows of St. Jacques near the garden I'm working in in France, and even old pilgrim ways in Cornwall, uk...

 

[julie]

Reding daily posts on the forum,m constantly struck by requests for advice , etc; that assume the Frances is THE Caminho.....This is the result of several factors, I m sure, and I am not mentioning this to be critical of the enquirers;there needs to be some consciousness raising here.

I don't believe it is a matter of consciousness raising. I've walked a number of different pilgrim routes in France and in Spain but, for me, the Camino Francés is THE Camino. Possibly because it was my first pilgrimage but equally possibly because it is the most well-known route.

When someone asks me for advice about walking the Camino, I assume they are referring to the Francés. If they are interested in another route, they usually ask about Le Puy or Arles or the del Norte etc. They rarely refer to the Camino Francés, it is simply the Camino.

I certainly felt that the intensely spiritual, emotional experience I had on the Francés was "authentic". It affected me enough to encourage me to walk it for a second time and I don't expect it has finished with me yet. Although I have found other routes more beautiful, there is something intangible about the Camino Francés which speaks directly to my soul. That connection comes through regardless of the number of pilgrims on it.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

People do not detract from my walk; they are the reason for it. I understand those who seek solitude, but I can find it very easily on the Camino Frances. Each route has its interesting terrain, but the Camino Frances has a little bit of everything except the extreme ruggedness of the Asturian mountains. All the caminos are great, but only the Camino Frances gets to be the reference when someone says "I walked the Camino." All the others need an additional descriptor. It is the polestar of the caminos.

 

[t2andreo]

If one looks at a map of all the present Camino routes, all have one thing in common - they ultimately terminate at Santiago de Compostela. Again. looking at the map of routes, one cannot but notice that for most of the routes, the Camino Frances is the spine or backbone of the Camino.

All paths may lead to Santiago, but perhaps half of them eventually join and merge with the Camino Frances. The begin literally all over Europe. I think this might be the origin of the feeling many people have for regarding the Frances as "the Camino."

Similarly, St. Jean Pied de Port has the historical reputation for being THE starting point for the Camino Frances. I think, again if you look at a map, this is simply because the town sits on the French side of one of the three passes through the Pyrenees Mountains. Many Camino routes starting in northern, western, or eastern Europe converge at St. Jean for the walk into Spain and joining the Spanish segment of the Camino Frances at Roncesvalles.

Again, in a similar manner, I suggest this is parenthetically, also where the scallop shell analog as a description for the Camino, writ large, developed. Many paths from many different points of origin, all converging on one end-point, Santiago de Compostela.

In 1214 Saint Francis of Assisi walked the Camino Frances (named NOT because of St. Francis but because it originates in France) from Puente la Reina. He came on the Camino Aragones from the eastern (Somport) pass across the Pyrenees. Since about the year 850 +/-, kings, political figures, Popes, writers and philosophers have also walked some or all of this central spine common to many of the Camino routes.

Paulo Coelho documented his Camino along the Frances in his writings. Several movies (more than The Way) have been made in various languages - mostly about the Frances. So, I suppose the Camino Frances has become the metaphor for "the Camino" over the millennia.

To be sure the Camino Frances is not the only Camino. It may not be the most physically challenging, the most scenic or beautiful (that is subjective), the longest, or the "best" (again subjective). However, it is sort of like telling someone that you have been to Paris. They usually envision the Eiffel Tower and proceed to ask you if you saw the Eiffel Tower. When you tell someone you have or will walk the Camino de Santiago, people who have heard about it in any form, are likely to presume you MEAN the Camino Frances.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

St. Jean Pied de Port has the historical reputation for being THE starting point for the Camino Frances.

The Camino Frances starts at the French border, pretty much Roncesvalles. Up to that point, it is the Chemin du Puy or Camino Navarra.

Ostabat, a day before SJPdP, is the nexus of several pilgrimage routes in France, and would be a more historical starting point if it had a train to Bayonne. When pilgrims walked, Ostabat was THE place in France. St. Jean is no more a starting point than Oloron-Ste. Marie is for the Somport crossing. They are convenient starting places because of public transportation, but they are just waypoints.

 

[freescot]

Yes, musicman, there are plenty and, it seems, more every few months. The other day I came across The Camino de Guadalajara which starts in Uclés and joins the Ruta de La Lana in Viana de Mondéjar. Last Year I saw new signs appear in Ciudad Rodrigo which is 90 km west of Salamanca where the Via de La Plata passes.
The main difficulty is infrastructure which is a bit thim on some of these routes.
There is part of this forum dedicated to other routes. http://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/#other-routes-in-spain.58

 

[whariwharangi]

My understanding of the Camino was that it started in Roncesvalles and ended in Santiago.

Imagine my surprise when the guidebook I purchased fixed the start in SJPdP.

SJPdP can in no way be described as a historical starting point. Historically its a converging point for caminos from all over Europe. The only reason for starting in SJPdP (which has to be one of the hardest places to get to in all of France) is to experience the Pyranees whether via Route Napoleon or Route Valcarlos.

I was well into the camino before I even heard of Finisterre and Muxia. I think there was a map in the Albergue (San Lazaro) in Santiago that opened my eyes to all of the possible routes throughout Spain and the rest of Europe.

I'm not surprised that knowledge is not widespread. I thinks its a recent phenomenon that we are collectively looking for something meaningful in our lives where we give ourselves the gift of time and have the wherewithal to make it happen.

 

[David]

Musicman, I disagree with your post - especially that routes other than the Frances are somehow more "authentic" - what is an authentic pilgrimage?
The crowdedness, the people, the hubbub, the difficulties and joys because of them surely is an integral (and historic) aspect of pilgrimage?

That is how the medieval ones were, it is how the Frances is becoming now - choosing a 'quiet' walk on a fairly empty Camino to avoid other people is really choosing a nature walk isn't it? One can only want to avoid people because they 'get in the way' - get in the way of what? It is a pilgrimage - and that the Frances (now renamed the Camino de Santiago as it is considered to be the main Camino) is THE Camino, and therefore the most "authentic" is because it is recognisable as the one that most pilgrims go on.

Of course, take any path to Santiago, all roads, all Caminos, lead to Santiago - but don't do it looking for 'authenticity'

Buen Camino

 

[Kitsambler]

Having walked the Le Puy route to SJPP, and the Jakobsweg from Prague to Einsiedeln (so far), the Camino Frances is but the last chapter in a very long book.

 

[Gailsie]

I tried very hard to remember that I was walking my own camino in 2009 and others were walking theirs. I did take transportation in a couple of sections.

But it was especially difficult one night when the hostal was overrun by young people who partied, turned lights on and off and made lots of noise. It was one night of camino hell but I realized that they were young and I might have been like that if I was in a crowd at their age.

 

[David]

If you look at the Caminos as streams flowing into a larger river going to Santiago then the Frances is the main river, an Amazon of a Camino. Only three minor Caminos go directly to Santiago without feeding into the Frances first - so if one is looking for the 'main' Camino, or the 'authentic' Camino then it is the Frances - others might be quieter, more beautiful and so on - but the Frances is the One!

see the map

 

[Tia Valeria]

Sorry David I am going to disagree with you a bit here. The Francés is the main Camino these days and was for part of the time in earlier centuries. However the other Caminos have also been 'main' Caminos historically, when Moorish rule meant that the northern routes were the only viable routes. The Primitivo is the 'Original' route (English version of Xacobeo booklet).
Whichever is now the 'main' route all are authentic surely as it is the individual intention as well as the route that counts. I don't feel that any of my time on the Camino is not authentic because I don't walk on the Francés. (No offence taken by the way, just a different point of view)

 

[David]

None taken. I was only writing about the present and responding to the post that said Caminos other than the Frances were "more authentic". All is well.

 

[Sraaen]

Another way to look at is that France and Norte were the only historical routes available to non-Spaniards.

Even Spaniards consider the Frances to be the defaul Camino. They rarely start in SJPdP, largely because they don't want a French creanciale.

If anyone can swing an extra couple of days, St. Palais is a nifty place to consider starting from. The Pyranees-Atlantique is pretty spectacular and as falcon pointed out, Ostabat is where the Tours, Le Puy and Vezelay routes converge. Walking into SJPdP was a pretty powerful experience.