- Time of past OR future Camino
- First one in 1977 by train. Many since then by foot. Next one ASAP.
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But no doubt near a rocky outcrop close to a paved road as the crew vans need to park somewhere close ... Isn't it a bit to the left of the road when you look back towards SJPP? I thought we had identified this location already. I know that I had looked at this view and had identified the houses/buildings on the left half way up the mountain.It's depicted as being somewhere after the Virgin de Biakorri and before a sign reading "Espana." No paved road is visible.
I am reasonably certain that the scene was filmed at this rocky outcrop. You may find better and more convincing views on videos or photos taken by pilgrims. It's on your right after you have left the tarmac road for good.
Yes. I translated the coordinates on the Google photo to another format (43.057517,-1.267617) so we can get pictures taken nearby. Checkout https://www.flickr.com/nearby/43.05...ltime&sort=interestingness&page=1&show=detailJust past the Croix Thibaud?
Wow, I didn't know that you can do this. Lot's of photos there. And look what I found:Yes. I translated the coordinates on the Google photo to another format (43.057517,-1.267617) so we can get pictures taken nearby. Checkout https://www.flickr.com/nearby/43.05...ltime&sort=interestingness&page=1&show=detail
And look what I found:
https://flic.kr/p/furSYs
One of the things that struck me when I re-watched the movie post Camino - They made it seem like the trail was not well marked. Having him walk across open fields and asking for directions, etc. The route seems a lot easier to follow than the movie showed. .
Wow! You looked through over 200 photos before you found that one. That's perseverance! How did you get your photo in Google Earth? When I go to ground level in GE the scenery just goes flat. and how come the elevation is 15m (eye alt 3m)? When I went there in GE it said the elevation was 1238m.Wow, I didn't know that you can do this. Lots of photos there. And look what I found:
https://flic.kr/p/furSYs
No, that would be so tediousWow! You looked through over 200 photos before you found that one. That's perseverance!
I tried to explain about efficiency and about looking for patterns but I guess I will have to accept that I am just a diligent girl and not a smart girl.I just did that. Instead of 9 images on my screen I had 48 images. That makes it harder in a way, as the images are so small it would be easy to miss what you're looking for. That photo was the fourth on the fourth page in thumbnails, that's the 196th photo, and it's the same in 'Details'. I still say that's perseverance above and beyond the call of duty!
Tat looks like te sign tey usedWow, I didn't know that you can do this. Lot's of photos there. And look what I found:
https://flic.kr/p/furSYs
Guess what emphasizer I use when I say "I _______ hate Microsoft!". I'm on Android now.Wow, I didn't know that you can do this. Lot's of photos there. And look what I found:
https://flic.kr/p/furSYs
This works well in Google images:And no, I a not going to say any longer how I found them or how quickly I found them.
I wondered about this. However, the person who took this and other images, the name is Stefan Vossemer, is apparently a professional photographer from Hamburg. I downloaded a few images from Flickr and looked at date and hour in the EXIF data, see below as an example, and also at the dates displayed for the sequence of photos in the album in question, and I do think the photos were taken in the summer of 2010.That looks like the very sign from the picture. It has the notch in it and the bike symbol. The text for the photo indicates that was for a 2009 camino so the 2010 date may be for when it was uploaded.
I so not hope it is a portable green screen behind them !!And this is what it really looks like when they are walking The Way.
This movie will never be the same for me.
Click to enlarge:
View attachment 74284
I'm going crazy trying to do things on my smartphone so I'm not seeing exif data. But if I click on the SJPDP pic you posted Flickr says it was a 2009 camino and then when you return to the forum the picture you posted has 2009 superimposed on it. The photographer may be as confused as I am.I do think the photos were taken in the summer of 2010.
I sympathise. I'm on an iMac with a modest 21.5-inch Retina 4K screen. ☺I'm going crazy trying to do things on my smartphone so I'm not seeing exif data.
Thank you. I use https://www.verexif.com to view exif data so I can get lat/long coordinates. It is a Spanish site (ver exif) but you can choose English and French if you wish.Here are the data that I extracted from the photo of the Roncesvalles/MTB trail sign on Flickr:
GPS Altitude:0 m Above Sea LevelGPS Latitude:43 deg 3' 31.73" NGPS Longitude:1 deg 16' 2.90" WDate/Time Created:2010:08:09 12:29:12+02:00
And:
Image Description: Bilddokumentation der Pilgerreise von Le Puy-en-Velay nach RoncevallesMake: CanonCamera Model Name: Canon DIGITAL IXUS 80 ISModify Date: 2010:08:15 16:09:18Artist: Stefan VossemerDate/Time Original: 2010:08:09 12:29:12Create Date: 2010:08:09 12:29:12
I haven't been up there. What is the purpose of that small fenced area near the sign?Indeed. It's been in plain view in GE Street View (dated 9/2008) all the time. We just didn't look carefully enough.
Wic key doesn't work, Rick?Tat looks like te sign tey used
Would I be right in guessing 'really'?Guess what emphasizer I use when I say "I _______ hate Microsoft!". I'm on Android now.
That looks like the very sign from the picture. It has the notch in it and the bike symbol. The text for the photo indicates that was for a 2009 camino so the 2010 date may be for when it was uploaded.
Do you mean the fence round the Cross of Thibaud or the fence in the foreground?I haven't been up there. What is the purpose of that small fenced area near the sign?
Would I be right in guessing 'really'?
This has all gotten above my pay grade. Android? GPSVisualizer? exif data? The height above sea level that Kathar1na extracted from Flickr seems a bit at odds with reality. The sign in the film was held between a couple of rocks, and the view behind it was the rocky outcrop. I guess they must have moved it for the scene, then put it back. I'm still asking why Daniel went in the wrong direction when he was standing next to a sign pointing in the right direction. Obviously, if he'd gone in the right direction he probably wouldn't have died, and there would be no story to film, but there should be a better reason.
It wasn't me who wondered about his death. I made up the story for myself that it was lightning. Peg and I walked the Valcarlos route because there was a chance of lightning.Rick,
As the police captain tells Tom, there was heavy fog in the area and the weather is famous for being unpredictable. There actually was a young man who died in that area on his first day out. I believe it was over ten years ago. I myself have gotten lost on many a “well-marked” trail
There was no mention of fog. In the telephone conversation at the golf course, Capt Henri says, "He was caught in a storm on the Camino de Santiago." Later, in Capt Henri's office, Tom asks, "What happened?" Capt Henri replies, "(It) was an accident. The weather in the Pyrenees is famous for being unpredictable." It was a bit misty, but Daniel was standing right next to the sign, and we could read it from about 10 feet away. He checks his guide book and walks off, completely ignoring the sign. I accept that it's a movie, not a documentary, but if they had just shown him lost and wandering and looking puzzled/worried I would have accepted that he had an accident. To show him RIGHT NEXT TO the sign for Roncevaux was a mistake imo. I know that people have died on the Camino in the Pyrenees, people who were probably on the right path, but got caught in severe bad weather, or who stumbled an fell into a gully where they were not seen by other walkers till it was too late.Rick,
As the police captain tells Tom, there was heavy fog in the area and the weather is famous for being unpredictable. There actually was a young man who died in that area on his first day out. I believe it was over ten years ago. I myself have gotten lost on many a “well-marked” trail
I removed "GPS altitude 0 m sea level" from the quote. The camera may not have recorded the altitude. The app I use may not have extracted the altitude data correctly. What does it matter. It's chaff not wheat. We know where the photo was taken.The height above sea level that Kathar1na extracted from Flickr seems a bit at odds with reality.
As to the rectangular fenced area between the road and the camino trail, my guesses would be that it has to do with sheep farming or multi-annual archaeological digging.I haven't been up there. What is the purpose of that small fenced area near the sign?
No criticism of your extraction skills intended, Kathar1na. Just showing my bafflement at the technology.I removed "GPS altitude 0 m sea level" from the quote. The camera may not have recorded the altitude. The app I use may not have extracted the altitude data correctly. What does it matter. It's chaff not wheat. We know where the photo was taken.
To answer my own misgivings, here's what it says in the script – which was in draft form, but the film closely follows it at this point:It was a bit misty, but Daniel was standing right next to the sign, and we could read it from about 10 feet away. He checks his guide book and walks off, completely ignoring the sign. I accept that it's a movie, not a documentary, but if they had just shown him lost and wandering and looking puzzled/worried I would have accepted that he had an accident. To show him RIGHT NEXT TO the sign for Roncevaux was a mistake imo. I know that people have died on the Camino in the Pyrenees, people who were probably on the right path, but got caught in severe bad weather, or who stumbled an fell into a gully where they were not seen by other walkers till it was too late.
You mean the car parked behind that sign?Can you spot the difference between @rappahannock_rev's photo from 2017 and an older photo from previous years?
No, I can't spot a major difference. Obviously there is the new sign on the left, but you don't mean that. The path is more worn in the recent photo, but that's no surprise.Can you spot the difference between @rappahannock_rev's photo from 2017 and an older photo from previous years? I mean: major difference? I have looked at a few other similar photos. I've been rubbing my eyes. Do I see this correctly or are seven weeks and three days of lockdown getting to me?
View attachment 74333
The cross seems a bit less cross-like in the more recent photo?Can you spot the difference between @rappahannock_rev's photo from 2017 and an older photo from previous years? I mean: major difference? I have looked at a few other similar photos. I've been rubbing my eyes. Do I see this correctly or are seven weeks and three days of lockdown getting to me?
View attachment 74333
Reminds me, somewhere along the way I noticed that the Roncevaux sign got replaced with a new one without the notch in the top.Can you spot the difference
Getting warmer ...The cross seems a bit less cross-like in the more recent photo?
Please tell me that I am wrong because it looks to me that they added a monument - a kind of rough stone, like a mini menhir - and even moved the Croix Thibaut to a place a bit closer to SJPP. I got this impression when I looked at various photos on Flickr. Although surely this must be an optical illusion?Do you mean that the cross is fenced or barricaded now? On the whole I didn't notice any differences that would be surprising.
The cross (if it is still a cross) is no longer protected by a fence, but it was still there in 2015. There are (at least) a couple of spellings of the name Thibault/Thibaud. I was amazed and delighted to find that I have a photo taken from almost the same spot as the other two. Mine was taken in September 2014. Also two of the inscriptions.Please tell me that I am wrong because it looks to me that they added a monument - a kind of rough stone, like a mini menhir - and even moved the Croix Thibaut to a place a bit closer to SJPP. I got this impression when I looked at various photos on Flickr. Although surely this must be an optical illusion?
Thanks, that’s the first close-up I see. This must be a very recent addition to the Route Napoleon. That‘s what you see in @rappahannock_rev’s photo. But did they move the Croix Thibaut in connection with this? What happened to the iron railing? Now you see it, now you dont‘t. I find this ... odd.I'm seeing a monument to Nazi torture victims on Wikiloc but I can't see anything in your pictures. Look at the wikiloc pictures here https://www.wikiloc.com/hiking-trails/donibane-garazi-orreaga-18-10-12-29535440/photo-18868300
Can anybody (and I probably mean Kathar1na) tell me who was Thibaud?
I most definitely do not think so ...Probably Theobald I of Navarre or his son Theobald II.
The first two are on the IMDb website. Where's the third?Here are a few photos from the day they filmed the scenes near the Croix Thibaud. These photos are not taken from the movie. And no, I a not going to say any longer how I found them or how quickly I found them.
Click to enlarge:
View attachment 74281
View attachment 74282
View attachment 74283
The cross has been moved. Who would do that and why?
The internet is full of mysteries. For example, much as I try, I cannot get to the place where the photo below is stored. It obviously existed once on the Alamy website but now it is apparently gone. It is nothing but a chimera in the vastness and timelessness of cyberspace ... the traces of its existence still kept alive by the mighty Search machines but for how long?This is better than any television mystery!
This is just a guess but it has the feel of monument in commemoration.Any idea what 'Stick and Mind' means?
Well yes obviously. That's why I included this text in my screenshot. Did you get the image itself on Alamy? I can't get it. That's the whole point of my comment.I googled this: "cruz thibault" alamy.es and the first photo was the one you posted.
@Isobeljc, I enjoyed looking at your photos. I was earlier than 2017 when I walked over this pass. I remember the site of the cross where I stopped and had a look at it and wondered about a few things. I knew a lot less about it then than I know now ☺. I don't recall any of the other signs or signposts but one doesn't pay attention to such details - the course of the trail was pretty obvious. I had not yet been made aware of the movie! And I don't recall any cars being parked there - something I noticed on a number of recent photos. I don't have any objections, I just notice the difference. Thanks for sharing!If this helps, these were taken on the 17th September 2017. Little did I know that day was the start of a whole new outlook on life for me.
And I don't recall any cars being parked there - something I noticed on a number of recent photos.
The inscription on one side is: Makila eta Gogoa, which Google Translate says means Stick and Mind. On the other side some starting points are inscribed: Paris, Le Puy, Arnegi, Donibane, and Santiago, and Ni Naiz bidea [I am the Way] ... Je suis le chemin ... .
You know by now that I don't understand all this modern technology, I clicked on the photo (first on the page) then 'copy image' and this is what I have:Well yes obviously. That's why I included this text in my screenshot. Did you get the image itself on Alamy? I can't get it. That's the whole point of my comment.
The inscription on one side is: Makila eta Gogoa, which Google Translate says means Stick and Mind. On the other side some starting points are inscribed: Paris, Le Puy, Arnegi, Donibane, and Santiago, and Ni Naiz bidea [I am the Way] ... Je suis le chemin ... .
I posted a quote in an earlier comment that dates the Croix Thibault to 1993 which was a Jacobean Holy Year but the squiggle looks more like a 9 than a 3. Which would also make sense as 1999 was another Jacobean Holy Year. Another French blogger wrote that it was a local company from nearby Ascarat who produced the cross. They are stone masons and the company name is Berho. A number of these bloggers are people who go on local hikes with the cross as their starting point; they are more likely to have local knowledge than camino walkers.At the bottom right there is what looks like a year, but it is not clear. It could be 1990, or almost anything else.
Arnegi is the rather forgettable hamlet located where you cross the Franco-Spanish frontier via the Valcarlos route.... Odd that it should be named on a monument way up on the Route de Napoleon!
View attachment 74410View attachment 74410View attachment 74410
Without knowing anything about the Basque language and in particular Basque grammar and how verbs and nouns change their form and endings in a given context it's next to impossible to know what it means and the machine translations don't have enough context to make much sense of it. There are Basque online dictionaries which may be more useful.The inscription on one side is: Makila eta Gogoa, which Google Translate says means Stick and Mind. [...] Any idea what 'Stick and Mind' means?
I deleted my earlier post because I want to replace the visual with a better one that I just made. Yes, I really have nothing better to doArnegi is the rather forgettable hamlet located where you cross the Franco-Spanish frontier via the Valcarlos route.... Odd that it should be named on a monument way up on the Route de Napoleon!
Here's a map. The camino is the red line.You are both right Rev and Mike. You enter Spain at the Venta area and then walk to a village of Valcarlos named Pekotxeta.something like Pexota.This and Arneguy are adjoining and nearly indistinguishable. You do some zig-zagsa zig to the leftand cross a bridge back into Franceand then a zag to the right. You then remain in France until you cross the river again at
Rick,
As the police captain tells Tom, there was heavy fog in the area and the weather is famous for being unpredictable. There actually was a young man who died in that area on his first day out. I believe it was over ten years ago. I myself have gotten lost on many a “well-marked” trail
I think if you look at enough photos of the vicinity of the two monuments, at views of Google Earth both from satellite and from the road and at all the relevant scenes in the movie and the still photos of them shooting the movie, there can be no doubt left that the rocky outcrop is the one identified in post #5 and #4, i.e. within sight of the two monuments.Neither of the two monuments under discussion ever appears in the film. And I just don't see a compelling connection yet made between those monuments and the great rocky crag!
My post #20 pinpoints an area 200 meters from the Cross Thibault that looks like the film location. It is also about 200 meters from a hut that I think is the one you mentioned. You have to expand the thumbnail map I included.Going back to the original post: where did Tom find Daniel's rustic cross
We're talking Hollywood, OK?
Not strictly Hollywood. I don't know the ins and outs of it but it was not a Hollywood big studio production. Privately financed -- I heard (on this forum) that Charlie Sheen put up some of the money. OK, Martin Sheen and Emilio Estevez are Hollywood people. But, in the sense that 'Hollywood' means a film made to tell a good story, whether "based on a true story" or fiction, and to make a profit, I guess you could call it 'hollywood' (small 'h'). The film is fiction and they had to tell a story and get some good scenery in the shots. I think they did rather well.
Another search begins (or not). This shot somehow reminds me of the scene where they see the three flagellants near León. Do you know where the photo was snapped?And this is what it really looks like when they are walking The Way.
This movie will never be the same for me.
Click to enlarge:
View attachment 74284
Here is this old shepherd's stone hut, as seen from the Route Napoléon trail. There is nothing in the topography in this area that would even remotely fit the topography of the movie scenes.It is also about 200 meters from a hut
It's not that I held a wet index finger up in the air to see where the wind blows and then said, ooh, there's a rock, that could be it.
No, no. Keep posting. Musing posts and amusing posts are both accepted.Ouch! If I have offended, then I beg forgiveness.... No more musings from me on this thread, I think.
Are you telling me that the figure of Tom and the cross were photoshopped into the scene at #87?I'll give you 9.5 out of 10 for that ... Deducting half a point because Martin Sheen is not 4 meters tall. ;-)
Crudely photoshopped.Are you telling me that the figure of Tom and the cross were photoshopped into the scene at #87?
Oh! Now having clicked on it and enlarged it, I see what you mean. I'm too trusting.Crudely photoshopped.
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