nancy frens
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- Time of past OR future Camino
- May 2022
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Unfortunately it has happened to me. On one occasion a passing cyclist slipped sideways on a muddy path and as he fell his bike's front sprocket and chain were driven through my trouser leg and into my shin. The result was several days of limping and badly cobbled clothing. When the Camino Frances was recreated in the 1980s cyclists mostly rode racing or touring bikes which could not be used offroad. So there was little scope for conflicts between cyclists and walkers. The advent of mountain bikes and huge increases in numbers walking are an unfortunate combination.It's never happened to me, but close.
Many bikers do yell warnings but I often wonder why, having spent a fortune on bike and equipment, they can't afford a bell or horn. On 5 trips to Spain, I have only encountered 4 or 5 cyclists whose tyres I would have gleefully punctured. One guy thought a warning he was there was nudging the back of my legs with his wheel. I refused therefore to move and he had to wait till the path was wide enough. Another thought riding fast through a muddy puddle and spraying all around him was the decent thing to do. And finally, the guys riding at a million miles an hour down the path from Cruz de Ferro knocking me off my feet into the bushes. Why they could not use the road a few feet away baffles me. Having said that, I met many great guys on bikes, two of whom decided to walk a ways with those of us on foot. In general, 99% of them are just pilgrims like everyone else but please, please, buy a flaming bellWe are walking the Frances Camino, and have frequently been startled by bikers coming from behind us with no warning, then they give us an angry look as they swerve by. We are very happy to share the path, but it has been very windy, and difficult to hear you approach us from behind. Also, some of us don’t hear very well any more. Please, a shout, a bell, or any kind of warning giving us time to react and get out of your way would benefit both of us! We have been impressed with the bikers’ endurance, strength and stamina, and want to make sure everyone is safe. Thank you, and Buen Camino!
Weekend mornings are a favourite time for their outings, so be aware!Local off-road cycle clubs out for a ride on their home turf
What ..you can do this on a bike?......that's ridiculous manWe are walking the Frances Camino, and have frequently been startled by bikers coming from behind us with no warning, then they give us an angry look as they swerve by. We are very happy to share the path, but it has been very windy, and difficult to hear you approach us from behind. Also, some of us don’t hear very well any more. Please, a shout, a bell, or any kind of warning giving us time to react and get out of your way would benefit both of us! We have been impressed with the bikers’ endurance, strength and stamina, and want to make sure everyone is safe. Thank you, and Buen Camino!
I agree with youMany bikers do yell warnings but I often wonder why, having spent a fortune on bike and equipment, they can't afford a bell or horn. On 5 trips to Spain, I have only encountered 4 or 5 cyclists whose tyres I would have gleefully punctured. One guy thought a warning he was there was nudging the back of my legs with his wheel. I refused therefore to move and he had to wait till the path was wide enough. Another thought riding fast through a muddy puddle and spraying all around him was the decent thing to do. And finally, the guys riding at a million miles an hour down the path from Cruz de Ferro knocking me off my feet into the bushes. Why they could not use the road a few feet away baffles me. Having said that, I met many great guys on bikes, two of whom decided to walk a ways with those of us on foot. In general, 99% of them are just pilgrims like everyone else but please, please, buy a flaming bell
Thank you! This is one of my biggest pet peeves on the Camino, and it's dangerous. It doesn't take much just to say "Buen Camino" as you approach, just as we walkers do.We are walking the Frances Camino, and have frequently been startled by bikers coming from behind us with no warning, then they give us an angry look as they swerve by. We are very happy to share the path, but it has been very windy, and difficult to hear you approach us from behind. Also, some of us don’t hear very well any more. Please, a shout, a bell, or any kind of warning giving us time to react and get out of your way would benefit both of us! We have been impressed with the bikers’ endurance, strength and stamina, and want to make sure everyone is safe. Thank you, and Buen Camino!
That's ridiculous? Have a look at this then. It might be only half as ridiculous...What ..you can do this on a bike?......that's ridiculous man
Grrrr. I hope he paid her medical bills.Last week a young Korean girl had her leg broken when one of these jokers hit her.
Some people like mountain biking on the worst possible terrain. It's a challenge. But I have no idea if that's the mentality happening here.Why bikers want to ride on a very narrow path when the quiet road is just beside them baffles me
I agree that it's a problem. When I walked the Frances a few years ago, I estimated fewer than 10% of bikers gave warning. (Maybe not that few, but certainly not many!) I bike in the U.S. and always provide warning (bell and voice). Also, I am happy to give way to bikers on trails when hiking when they give warning.We are walking the Frances Camino, and have frequently been startled by bikers coming from behind us with no warning, then they give us an angry look as they swerve by. We are very happy to share the path, but it has been very windy, and difficult to hear you approach us from behind. Also, some of us don’t hear very well any more. Please, a shout, a bell, or any kind of warning giving us time to react and get out of your way would benefit both of us! We have been impressed with the bikers’ endurance, strength and stamina, and want to make sure everyone is safe. Thank you, and Buen Camino!
Yes totally agree some bikes cost 2000 euros or more think they should come with bell bit of respect is all that's needed speaking from experience got forced into canal be Medi one year from Germany bikers ever since dislike bikers vthere not true pilgrims sorry to sayWe are walking the Frances Camino, and have frequently been startled by bikers coming from behind us with no warning, then they give us an angry look as they swerve by. We are very happy to share the path, but it has been very windy, and difficult to hear you approach us from behind. Also, some of us don’t hear very well any more. Please, a shout, a bell, or any kind of warning giving us time to react and get out of your way would benefit both of us! We have been impressed with the bikers’ endurance, strength and stamina, and want to make sure everyone is safe. Thank you, and Buen Camino!
I walked the Camino Frances. Yes, there were some cyclists who seemed to come from nowhere. However, most were just trying to get to their destination, just as I was.. Some are not pilgrims, just people out for a ride. As someone who is an avid "quality of life" weekend cyclist, I know from experience that sometimes I can start ringing my bell 25 meters back and start politely saying "on your left" or "permesso" 10 meters back, but for whatever reason, people are slow to respond, or they don't move over until you are practically on top of them. Either they are caught up in their own thoughts or conversation, the wind or other background sounds are interfering with the sound, or they have headsets on. I am not suggesting that bad behavior is encouraged or tolerated, but I do think it is important for everyone to pay attention to their surroundings and make space for each other. Yes, cycling pilgrims should slow down, use bells, and yield to pedestrians. And yes, walking pilgrims should be alert and move to the right when they hear a cyclist.
What you say is true…however, way to many cyclists perceive the Camino, especially the hilly parts, as their personal racetrack. Last year, past Sarria, a cyclist missed me by a gnat’s behind and knocked another perigreno to the ground. I yelled an invite to talk with me and was really hoping to give him a “ come to Jesus moment” but he declined and sped on. The other pilgrim was OK, more scared than hurt, but a serious injury was only inches away.There is a lot to say on the matter, most of which has already been said. I will add two points:
1. Most cyclists have bells, but have stopped using them because they are in effective in most Camino situations. Headphones, distractions, wind, etc. to say nothing of the fact that a group of 2 or more pilgrims will very seldom move to the same side. This is as true for bikes as it is for cars, and it boggles my mind but brings me to number 2.
2. Pilgrims are only borrowing the path they are walking on. It is not theirs, nor is it exclusive to them. It’s a road and regular road rules apply. I’ve watched pilgrims walk 4 abreast down the same stretch of N road for years now, invincible for the moment.
Both pilgrims and cyclists need to get over the idea of superiority and just learn to share. Cars too.
But bells? Bells are worthless.
True, and.Pilgrims are only borrowing the path they are walking on. It is not theirs, nor is it exclusive to them.
It is our resposibility when walking on a road not to leave our brains at home, and use common-sense heedfulness - about both cares and bikes. On a road things with wheels have the right-of-way, not we with feet.It’s a road and regular road rules apply. I’ve watched pilgrims walk 4 abreast down the same stretch of N road for years now, invincible for the moment.
I don't know the actual statutes in Spain and don't have the time to find them right now. Perhaps someone can, to educate us all?I think it’s pretty clear that the primary duty to warn and take “evasive action” falls on the cyclist who is, after all, coming from behind.
I wasn’t referring to legal duty, just common sense courtesy duty. I think that knowing the legal or statutory standards would be relevant if there were litigation arising out of a cyclist-pedestrian collision, but I don’t think that it would affect the amount of caution I exercise while walking. In my home town, I know that pedestrians in a marked crosswalk have the legal right of way, but I would be taking my life in my hands to walk across many of those crosswalks given the motorists’ total disregard.I don't know the actual statutes in Spain and don't have the time to find them right now. Perhaps someone can, to educate us all?
Yes, same here.I wasn’t referring to legal duty, just common sense courtesy duty
Well actually, the path was originally for foot pilgrims and is originally and traditionally a foot path. "Exclusive"? Yeah, sure at one time yes. Bicycles were invented long after the Camino was. So I would say that bicyclists are the guests on the pilgrim's foot path which has become so crowded these days with foot pilgrims there's simply not enough room on it to safely share with bicycles. There's no learning to share when there's not enough room. It's literally impossible and I guess that's a difficult fact for some bicycle pilgrims to accept or perhaps grasp. The pilgrims will always walk across the entire path and they will always walk totally engrossed in conversation or as you mentioned wearing headphones. They're not going to all move to one side safely in some kind of rehearsed, choreographed safety drill to avoid being struck by a bicycle. All the lecturing in the world won't change any of those things.There is a lot to say on the matter, most of which has already been said. I will add two points:
1. Most cyclists have bells, but have stopped using them because they are ineffective in most Camino situations. Headphones, distractions, wind, etc. to say nothing of the fact that a group of 2 or more pilgrims will very seldom move to the same side. This is as true for bikes as it is for cars, and it boggles my mind but brings me to number 2.
2. Pilgrims are only borrowing the path they are walking on. It is not theirs, nor is it exclusive to them. It’s a road and regular road rules apply. I’ve watched pilgrims walk 4 abreast down the same stretch of N road for years now, invincible for the moment.
Both pilgrims and cyclists need to get over the idea of superiority and just learn to share. Cars too.
But bells? Bells are worthless.
Good point.I have yet to hear of an incident where a bicyclist was struck by a speeding foot pilgrim, only the other way around.
I have just arrived in Santiago and in the whole cyclists are just as courteous as some groups of occasional walkers. But as an experienced cyclist I can say that over 90% of cyclists are on powered machines.We are walking the Frances Camino, and have frequently been startled by bikers coming from behind us with no warning, then they give us an angry look as they swerve by. We are very happy to share the path, but it has been very windy, and difficult to hear you approach us from behind. Also, some of us don’t hear very well any more. Please, a shout, a bell, or any kind of warning giving us time to react and get out of your way would benefit both of us! We have been impressed with the bikers’ endurance, strength and stamina, and want to make sure everyone is safe. Thank you, and Buen Camino!
I have to think that zero of the paths that we currently walk (or possibly ever were walked by pilgrims) were purpose built for them. Every meter of the camino, right up to the steps of the cathedral, is shared space.Well actually, the path was originally for foot pilgrims and is originally and traditionally a foot path.
This! The cemetery is full of people who were right.In my home town, I know that pedestrians in a marked crosswalk have the legal right of way, but I would be taking my life in my hands to walk across many of those crosswalks given the motorists’ total disregard.
I partially agree with you. On congested Camino routes for example the Frances from Saria. However other routes like the VdlP have less congestion and in some areas an off road cycle path parallel to the main route.I like mountain bicycles. I own a mountain bicycle. They can be quite fun to ride. That being said IMO they have no place sharing the path with walkers, on the Camino or any other narrow, busy (quite busy) walking path.
In that case they are not bicigrinos (cycling pilgrims) but normal cyclists being inconsiderate.Weekend mornings are a favourite time for their outings, so be aware!
Yes, I also agree pilgrims do reckless things. Walk over the Pyrenees despite warned no to. Wear headphones despite the hazard of not hearing a car or bicycle approaching. Crossing highways at dangerous points without due caution. Not wearing reflective clothing or markers when walking in the dark. Texting or otherwise staring at a device while walking and taking a fall etc etc.I have to think that zero of the paths that we currently walk (or possibly ever were walked by pilgrims) were purpose built for them. Every meter of the camino, right up to the steps of the cathedral, is shared space.
I want to make it clear that I believe cyclists, for the most part, do an excellent job with or without bells. They are just as much at risk of injury in a collision as us on foot. I only meant to draw attention to the fact that there are reckless parties on both sides, and that it is those on foot that are more likely to get hurt. This is borne out by statistics, and by my own empirical observations as a close neighbor to the camino. They go where they please, because like you said they all believe the trail is theirs. It is not, and it never was, and any thinking to the contrary is dangerous. Follow the arrows, avoid shortcuts along roads, and if you’ve been walking on a busy road for more than a few hundred meters there is a good chance you have lost the way.
This! The cemetery is full of people who were right.
In that case they are not bicigrinos (cycling pilgrims) but normal cyclists being inconsiderate.
The reason that mountainbikers don't want to ride the quiet road is the same as the reason we pelgrims have for choosing the path, the purpose of Mountainbiking is riding "offroad". Of course I agree with all comments that bikers should warn timely when they nearing walkers. I had some narrow escapes when a biker flashed byI agree with you
Why bikers want to ride on a very narrow path when the quiet road is just beside them baffles me
Last week a young Korean girl had her leg broken when one of these jokers hit her.
The one’s we saw we’re not locals out for a ride, they were “Pilgrims”
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