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This appears on the map as a location after Portomarín.
My thought is that possibly many of these comments are from tour groups, whose participants, in addition to walking portions of the Camino also have van/buses that shuttle them to impressive spots along the way to "enhance" their experience.A lot of the camino references are suspiciously similar:
The Camino ascends to a high point at Pena dos Corvos; at 660m you will enjoy panoramic views, (Macs Adventure), (Second Life Outdoors) and (Bergfex)
The. Camino ascends to a high point at Pena dos Corvos. At 660m, we will enjoy fantastic panoramic views (Nativity Pilgrimage)
We reach the high point of the day at Pena dos Corvos (660m)! (Pathfinders.me)
Pena dos Corvos 660m at Cruce Momientos [1.3 km] with fine views (Brierley) -- Google Maps doesn't know where Cruce Momientos is either.
Ah misread, or probably so excited I thought I knew where it was!This appears on the map as a location after Portomarín.
What is wanted are the exact coordinates of a spot on a Peña dos Corvos before Portomarín.
It is peña and not pena. In the given context peña means craggy mountain or hill - it is entry #2 in the RAE. It must be a popular name for field names. The village where I grew up, far away from Galicia, has an area of fields called Ravens Hill.
Cruce Momientos
I'm not sure it's something that should cause any bother. Maybe it is marked when you get there if your looking. It is odd though that they all mention it and it's not obvious.Thanks, Everyone. What bothers me is, if Peña dos Corvos is not marked on any map, and there is no signpost saying "Peña dos Corvos 660m" (as there is at many other highpoints, like "Alto do Poio altitud 1.335 m"), how did anybody, including the great Brierley (RIP), find out or realise that that was where they were?
Oral tradition is a possibility.Thanks, Everyone. What bothers me is, if Peña dos Corvos is not marked on any map, and there is no signpost saying "Peña dos Corvos 660m" (as there is at many other highpoints, like "Alto do Poio altitud 1.335 m"), how did anybody, including the great Brierley (RIP), find out or realise that that was where they were?
How did the words Peña dos Corvos get into Brierley and other books or blogs in the first place? It was probably copied from other guidebooks and descriptions of the area. And perhaps a local of As Rozas once said to a traveller: "Don't take the road to the left, take the road to the right up the Peña dos Corvos
Yes this definitely makes sense as that is the spot I thought it must be on the old 3D google earth thing (camino is the yellow line).I can see that there is a great danger that one misses the good views between Rozas and Moimentos on the Camino Francés in Galicia when one has not read about it beforehand in a guidebook or a blog and when there is no sign on the hill that tells the pilgrim to stop here in this very spot and admire or photograph the view.
How did the words Peña dos Corvos get into Brierley and other books or blogs in the first place? It was probably copied from other guidebooks and descriptions of the area. And perhaps a local of As Rozas once said to a traveller: "Don't take the road to the left, take the road to the right up the Peña dos Corvos and by the way there's a good view up there." And then the traveller wrote it down and shared the information with future travellers. I am assuming of course that the conversation was held in Spanish or in Galego and not in English and that the information got translated later.
Get hold of decent maps and see where this Peña dos Corvos area is. On a detailed enough topographic map one can also see where the trail to Santiago touches the 640 m altitude line.
Or one just walks and thinks, great view, I must be on the Peña dos Corvos hill now.
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It makes sense, but other accounts give the location before you cross the road and before Momientos.I now believe the spot Brierley mentioned is here. It is near the cruce (road crossings) of the village named Momientos, the view opens up, and the Camino starts heading downhill. Besides, look at viewpoint/mirador marked on Brierley's map (west at the top of the page).
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They copied each other, going back in history to the explanation given by @Kathar1na:how did all these bloggers know that they were there?
Exactly!!How did the words Peña dos Corvos get into Brierley and other books or blogs in the first place? It was probably copied from other guidebooks and descriptions of the area. And perhaps a local of As Rozas once said to a traveller: "Don't take the road to the left, take the road to the right up the Peña dos Corvos and by the way there's a good view up there." And then the traveller wrote it down and shared the information with future travellers.
Stop for a moment and look at a map - even with English place names. Many many stranger names exist! We just get used to them and the strangeness fades. How about "Moose Jaw"?seems an odd name to give to a place
That would certainly look like the most obvious spot of this Atlantis!In that case there is a spot before Momientos close to 650 m elevation that should have a view to the SW where before an after the Camino skirts the edge of the woods.
View attachment 164987
Thank you so much! This is very reassuring to read, coming from a Galician who is not struggling with Galician and Spanish vocabulary and toponomy like I and quite a few others among us are struggling.In Galician is " Pena dos Corvos" . In Spanish would be " Peña de los Cuervos".
I think like most things Camino related the only way you will find it is to walk it.Who or what is the source of Brierley's map? It is not conventional, having north to the right, but it is obviously a professional job. It introduces a bit more confusion, which doesn't matter (much!). But, if the map is correct, we have Peña do Cervo, which Google Translates as "Stag's Rock", so nothing to do with crows. But it gives Momientos, which accounts for Brierley's version, where everyone else calls Moimentos. It's only a transposition of two letters, but it confuses Google Maps. If Brierley was using that map, where did he get Pena dos Corvos from? Is there any reliable source that can say if the place is called Peña do Cervo or Peña dos Corvos. I know this won't matter to most people, and tbh, it doesn't matter very much to me.
Obviously, Brierley had a professional graphics person prepare an attractive map for publication. That doesn't mean that he did historical research into the place names and different cultural perspectives on every place. He was writing a pilgrim's guide from his own perspective, observations and casual research, and he never claimed to be an authoritative source for geographic or historical information.Who or what is the source of Brierley's map? It is not conventional, having north to the right, but it is obviously a professional job.
The various answers that are proposed in this thread will only add to the lore (aka confusion) of the place names.it doesn't matter very much to me.
Seriously now? We try to find out why Brierley's map and book has yet another minuscule inaccuracy or ambiguityWho or what is the source of Brierley's map? It is not conventional, having north to the right, but it is obviously a professional job. It introduces a bit more confusion, which doesn't matter (much!). But, if the map is correct, we have Peña do Cervo, which Google Translates as "Stag's Rock", so nothing to do with crows.
In Galician is "Pena dos Corvos". In Spanish would be "Peña de los Cuervos".
The Spanish names are Las Rozas ( As Rozas), ? (Moimentos) and Peña del Ciervo ( Pena do Cervo).This interactive detailed map shows us that there is an area between As Rozas and Moimentos that is near the Camino de Santiago and that is called Pena dos Corvos in Galego (see post #14) and another area nearby that is called Pena do Cervo in Galego (see below). I don't know their Spanish names (if they exist and are different).
@Bert45, I don't know whether you noticed it when you typed your introduction. I noticed it only when I saw @Rick of Rick and Peg 's copy of Brierley's map and when I finally decided to pull out my own copy of Brierley (copyrighted in 2015). While he writes Pena dos Corvos 660 m in his text, he marks Peña do Cervo in his map, and he makes it look like this were a single spot on the Camino trail while it is in reality about an extended hill and two different hills with their own names.Pena dos Corvos 660m at Cruce Momientos [1.3 km] with fine views (Brierley)
Thanks again. I nearly asked you what accidentes terrestres are. I just could not figure it out. The interactive map that I consulted displays accidentes terrestres, terras and entidades humanas. But I found out in the meantime that it means landforms and that makes a lot more sense in the given context than terrestrial accidents.The Spanish names are Las Rozas ( As Rozas), ? (Moimentos) and Peña del Ciervo ( Pena do Cervo).
Yes, more common for this is "accidentes geográficos" ( or xeográficos in Gal.).Thanks again. I nearly asked you what accidentes terrestres are. I just could not figure it out. The interactive map that I consulted displays accidentes terrestres, terras and entidades humanas. But I found out in the meantime that it means landforms and that makes a lot more sense in the given context than terrestrial accidents.
Thanks Kathar1na, and other posters, for your work researching this topic. It is so interesting and gives us a new unmarked landform to discover and enjoy searching for. I think I have picnicked there in the past. Now I can pay closer attention walking to confirm.And just for fun, from the same website, the 90 km waymarker near Portomarín. I did not know that the old Galician waymarkers, now replaced, had placenames on them. And in red!
View attachment 165030
Thanks for all your efforts, Kathar1na. I really appreciate it. I have not been using Google Earth, just Streetview. I don't believe that you can get a view from near ground level with GE. When you get close to the ground it switches to Streetview. Even Streetview consists of photos taken from above the roof of a car, so it isn't quite the same as the view from the average person's height, but pretty close. I began this thread partly because I was intrigued by the obvious copy and paste that some people had used, and the fact that, in five caminos (2003, 2014, 2016, 2019, 2022) I have never been so overwhelmed by the view that I felt compelled to take a photo. Then, more OCD curiosity over the name and GM's inability to find it. I am still confused as to the actual name in Galician or in Spanish. Pelegrin wrote: The Spanish names are Las Rozas ( As Rozas), ? (Moimentos) and Peña del Ciervo ( Pena do Cervo). Pena (galego), peña (Spanish), that's OK, but is it cervo/ciervo or corvos/cuervos or corvo/cuervo? The Spanish don't seem to distinguish between ravens and crows, according to my small dictionary.@Bert45, are you at least using Google Earth or merely Google Maps and Streetview? There is only so much that you can visualise online. You will either have to walk from As Rozas to Portomarín to check or you will have to accept that written descriptions are inaccurate and even contradictory, and that includes the Brierley guide.
The Brierley guidebook and its maps serve their purpose: it gets people to Santiago. But it is a guidebook that prints O Cebreiro as O'Cebreiro and Moimentos as Momientos, and nobody has bothered to correct such obvious errors because they don't matter much for the foreign Camino pilgrim.
In Google Earth, you can see the elevation of any location. The top of the hill identified in post #14 as Pena dos Corvos has an elevation of 670 m when the pointer hovers over it. The Camino trail that goes along this hill has an elevation of 645 m in this very area. There are great views there, people have photographed them. The location is not on StreetView.
The tiny village of Moimentos shows an elevation of 585 m in Google Earth. A cross marked as Cruceiro, about 200 m further along the Camino trail, has an elevation of 565 m. It is around there that you have a lovely view of the white church of A Laxe to the left and further down. I don't take many photos but I took a photo of this very nice view of the white church among all the green. A view that is worth marking on a map. But it is not the view that others describe earlier when passing Pena dos Corvos.
You need to walk it again. Buen Camino!
In Spanish the biggest bird is "cuervo". But there are names for other " corvidos" like " grajo" , "grajilla" and " corneja". In Galician the only name that I know is " corvo".The Spanish don't seem to distinguish between ravens and crows, according to my small dictionary.
I can handle a bit of Spanish and I'm pretty good at figuring out websites but this website was a bit tricky but I spent an hour with it and I think I've got a handle on it now. I couldn't use it on my phone and Peg had way too many tabs up on her browser and that hid tabs I ended up creating so that didn't help.I was unable to use that Topónimos site, as I am functionally illiterate in computer, galego and Spanish.
Yesterday on the Topónimos site I searched the Paradela locality for the sole word corvo and it found and pinned two places. One was the spot just off the camino that @Kathar1na has shown us twice in two different ways. The site had the name A pena dos Corvos. I had Google Translate translate the name from Gallego and pena was coming out as pain, pity, penalty and sorrow depending on how much I typed. Changing pena to peña it presented me with foot or rock. Rock makes sense. @Pelegrin has already told us that it is not peña in Gallego but pena is correct. Has Goog messed up?I am still confused as to the actual name in Galician or in Spanish. Pelegrin wrote: The Spanish names are Las Rozas ( As Rozas), ? (Moimentos) and Peña del Ciervo ( Pena do Cervo). Pena (galego), peña (Spanish), that's OK, but is it cervo/ciervo or corvos/cuervos or corvo/cuervo?
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